Regardless of your views on whether its okay to end a human life.
do we agree that abortion is ending a human life?
yeah i dont see how you can convince yourself otherwise. I think it should be legal but like people have to undestand their choice and come to terms with the morality involved
Yep
>>767712437
why should it be legal?
>>767712325
If you plant a seed, and then dig it up later, you haven't cut down a tree.
ayylmao
wish I was aborted
>>767712325
only if the baby inside could survive by itself (food excluded) after being removed from the womb.
>>767712494
the differences between people and plants are about 700 million years old, if not more
>>767712538
why?
Is eating an egg the same as eating a chicken
>>767712325
Nope lol
>>767712494
This
>>767712551
Do you have a point?
>>767712325
Uh, no.
>>767712574
morally speaking yes
this becomes much more important when dealing with people , not chickens
>>767712568
because if it could not survive outside the womb, I do not consider it a living being. It is still a parasite.
>>767712608
the analogy is nonsensical.
seeds arent in any way the same as foeti
>>767712640
Morally speaking, no.
One is a sentient living thing, the other isn't.
>>767712551
Ah, I see you haven't developed to the stage of understanding metaphor. Well, keep it up, I'm sure you'll get there some day.
>>767712538
Can we kill the handicapped too?
>>767712668
what if i was in a terrible car accident and rendered unable to survive unassisted.
viability is not a fixed position.
>>767712696
i understand what you mean, i just think its too clumsy to be applicable.
>>767712713
If you cannot survive unassisted and no one is willing to provide resources to keep you alive, then letting you die is not an immoral act.
>>767712684
why is sentience so important to legal protection?... that can be removed from a living person and they are still legally protected
>>767712781
But an unborn kid wont die if left alone
can we put bullets into retarded peoples heads?
>>767712469
Why not? Also, all these pro-life people are so fucking hypocritic. Just look at what lengths they're ready to go to achieve their goals. All these Crisis pregnancy centres pretending to be abortion clinics. How pathetic.
>>767712781
debateable
but even so, abortion is not "letting the thing die"..its active
>>767712325
Can you agree that every time you eat youve ended life so you vold live. Death is part of life. Get used to it
>>767712781
Can we kill 1 year old kids too?
those fuckers wouldn't survive without help.
can we kill them anyway we wanted?
>>767712713
The situation does dictate if you are trying to save a fetus yes, but we are talking about abortion. This is different. Abortion is in most cases a choice. I would still argue that in the car accident the fetus is not a human yet, but the choice was not made to abort it, but to save it because of an accident to the host being
>>767712847
because the law should apply to people equally.
also scientific reasons and moral reasons which i wont go into.
>>767712325
join are quality dikord u fine people - zrC63A
>>767712833
technically yes we can
>>767712325
Before 49 days it has no soul.
>>767712967
pineal gland right?
>>767712944
thats the problem, other than conception there is no precise definition of when humanity emerges.
>>767712967
they should make an anti-abortion movie called 49 days later
>>767712325
heres my two cents
if abortion was murder, then, it would be called murder
abortion isnt ending a human life per se, its just stopping it before its even begun, and i think you and i can agree that a fetus is not equal to a full grown human, not in terms of human rights, but in terms of concept
honestly, i dont think abortion is either good or bad, if you want to kill the motherfucker, go ahead, but its still something alive, not a human, but alive, i think the best thing to do is to use contraceptive to avoid this whole bitch before it even happens
If i got a girl pregnant, and i didnt want the goddamn baby, id definitely abort it, just saying, i think its better to kill a baby rather than bringing it into an environment where i cant take proper care of it, if i did have the resources to have a child, id have it, but its not about inconvenience, its about sparing the kid of a life not worthy of a human being, thats the reason i think abortion is ok
>>767712967
just because its alive it has a soul?
thats bull
>>767712964
so, pretty much like nazis
i can round up anyone who needs any type of assistance to live and kill em all.
babies, elderly, cripples, retards, etc...
cool
>>767713038
a rose by any other name ... termminology doesnt determine reality.
i think that human life begins at conception , its the only way to be sure
it cant be alive, and human but not a human life.
nor is inconvenience a legal defense against the ending of a human life
>>767713149
anyone who doesnt meet an arbitrary standard
>>767713038
well put
>>767713021
I do agree, in my consideration, a fetus could survive outside the womb at one point for a being far earlier than another. The point of it being considered a human cannot be set because of this. Just a general guideline. I wholeheartedly think that abortion should only be allowed to save the mothers life though. If you made the choice to have sex sometimes the consequences of this are becoming pregnant. You should have to give birth to the baby. I'm not saying you should have to keep it, adoption is there for a reason.
>>767713038
There's no point talking about actual human beings and realistic situations. Such things have no currency with the lifefag. Their minds work in childish analogies and biblical metaphors.
>>767713038
what is the big difference between being in a womb or outside a womb?
if you cant survive on your own, you should be killed or abandoned.
seriously, no real difference.
>>767713038
It's a living being, whether you want to call it a clump of human cells, or an underdeveloped human fetus it's still ending human life. It's literally murder no matter how you spin it. I'm fine with it since humans are all trash beings regardless, but fuck off. I'm tired of these liberal pussies that are too scared to say it's murder. Say it's murder and stand by it stop being so fucking retarded.
>>767713237
excuse me
i more or less agree..
not never... but not on demand
>>767713189
the standard is convenience.
if someone is going to be an inconvenience, they should be killed.
>>767712325
You can't end a life if it hasn't started yet.
>>767713149
if it cannot sustain its own life, as in breathing and staying alive. food is another topic. If it cannot feasibly live on its own outside the womb.
>>767713273
strawman.
im talking legally and scientifically not theologically
>>767713370
at least youre being consistent.
its the gymnastics that bother me
>>767712574
A fetus is not an egg. Humans have eggs as well and they flush them out every month. When people eat a chicken egg, they're basically eating the chicken's period. It's unfertilized.
>>767713366
well put. and far shorter than what I said too lol
>>767713399
il go end michael shumacher then.
>>767713399
so whenever a person needs help to sustain his own life, you should kill him? have fun being in a coma...
>>767713506
or just being old.
its a slippery slope.
>>767713476
you don't have to if he cannot survive on his own. he will just die after a bit
>>767713541
but abortion isnt passive. thats the point
>>767712668
If you want to get pedantic, parasites are different species than the host, so a fetus isn't technically a parasite no matter what you think of it.
>>767712494
Intellectually dishonest and avoiding the question.
>>767713506
I would rather die than be in a coma or have ALS or something like these. I do not wish to be a useless burden on society and resources. If I am useless let me die
>>767713399
so you cant abort a baby with lungs developed enough to breathe on its own?
I mean if you're pro life, you're pretty much pro- death.
>>767713321
dude, im not liberal, fucking hate those guys, seriously, you think a libtard would enter 4chan?
its alive anyways, but honestly, the baby years, youre just a poop machine, i think youre not worthy of human treatment until you can speak, read and write, when you can actually express yourself, i dont mean to say that children below 7 years are worthless, but come on, is that really a person?
Meh abortion should be legal thankfully I don't have to waste my money on one. She pissed on an hour ago. Dubs decides
>>767713541
But I want to drill into his skull.
Why can't I drill into his skull?
>>767713599
irrelevant.
legal protection cannot be altered based on physical status.
dangerous precedent.
>>767713621
....deep
>>767712967
Well, you're probably 20+ something years old and I see no soul neither.
Can we abort you ?
>>767713655
legality is based upon the laws of where you live. This is not irrelevant.
>>767713652
You can. He is a living being that is sustaining his own life. It is called murder.
>>767713655
>>767713732
you choosing to die is totally different from killing a foetus
>>767713301
when youre a grown man and capable of taking care of yourself, but not doing, i agree, just piece of shit, but come on, theyre just babies, they cant even walk, man, youre asking a fish to climb a tree
>>767713703
there is no such thing as a soul. there is morality.
>>767713599
this fag gets it
>>767712325
Yes.
>>767713781
a baby in the womb cant walk
a baby that's 1 year old cant walk
so what. they are in the same condition. unable to sustain themselves.
why cant I kill a 1 year old if I decide it's going to ruin my life?
In one room you have 100 babies in the other 100 embryos which do you save
>>767713759
Women are entirely parasitic to the state and men.
Can we abort all females ?
>>767713790
errrhhh, i think humans can have a soul, but you have to earn it, i think they just dont give those things away like candy
>>767713775
yes, however calling it a fetus is acknowledging it is not a human. I can kill an animal with no repercussions because it is not human. they even give me a license to do so every year.
>>767713878
If the embryos are outside the women I guess they're a lost cause.
>>767713874
cuz one day, it will be able to walk, just put it up for adoption if its such a pain, besides, killing a baby IS murder, abortion isnt
lol we abort more fetus than give birth to baby every year and just slightly upset about birth rate and aging population
>>767713878
In one room you have 100 adults, in the other 100 babies. Which do you save ?
>>767712954
>also scientific reasons and moral reasons which I'm too dumb to go into
fix'd
>>767713756
No.
That dude was in a coma for 4 years.
Why couldn't we just kill him?
That hospital bed could have been used by a human.
>>767713878
Broseph by that logic we should legally be able to kkkill niggers
>>767713826
not a fag, but thank you. I would willingly end my life to not be a burden. and also to not go through the pain and humility
>>767713977
your streetcar logic is worthless in this thread
Fuck off
>>767713759
By saying the woman has the right to abort you are saying that her bodily autonomy is more valuable than the life of the human inside of her. If she wants to take thalidomide, is that OK? If she has a newborn and would rather be out partying (bodily autonomy and all that), can she just leave the newborn at home to starve?
>>767712325
>do we agree that abortion is ending a human life?
so what if it is?
Whether you rationalize it as just cells, or human life......does it matter?
The funny (re: fucking retarded) thing about the "Pro-Life" side of the abortion argument is the skewed value system of what "life" is, how "life" is defined.
If you want to rationalize abortion 'ending human life', okay.....so what's it to you then?
Who are you to determine what "life" is, if the long term ramifications of birthing that child is opposite of that your notion?
>>767713878
moral impulse suggests the babies but moral impulse is not the same as rational decision making.
that situation is an unrealistic diad and can be reversed easily, similar to the people on the train track problem
>>767713759
bodily autonomy is a fabrication. you don't get to choose what you do with your own body in all instance.
everyone has limits to freedom
>>767713977
I'd go into the room full of babies. My dick is ready.
>>767713905
give me physical proof of a soul please, and show me who hands them out when you earn them.
>>767713994
wasnt calling you a fag to offend you mate, i mean youre a fag, im a fag, were all fags here, that kind of fag, sorry anyway
>>767713977
Was that as easy for you to answer as my question and for me I could choose just would have to make a quick assessment how old are the adults if past 50 they die
>>767713965
a baby in the womb could be put up for adoption
a 1 year old can be put up for adoption
I don't want to put the 1 year old up for adoption
I think it would be better to kill it.
If I stick a knife in a preggo woman and kill the kid they would try me for manslaughter or murder
why?
>>767713977
If it was me alone, the adults. If I save the babies and have no help in the future, most if not all will surely die of neglect and starvation.
>>767714037
when you show me proof the fetus is a human, bitch
>>767712325
>>767712325
nope
nope abortion should be legal
>>767713878
How is that relevant? Just about everyone would choose the babies, but that doesn't make the embryos any less deserving of life.
>>767713991
No you dumb fuck I am saying if that choice was easy for you to make then maybe that says something about the value of a embryo vs a real life
>>767713970
>lol we abort more fetus than give birth to baby every year
Abortions in US in 2014 (most recent data): 652,639
Births in US in 2014: 3,985,924'
That's a ratio of more than 6:1, you dumb asshole.
>>767714094
because, its not only YOUR kid, believe it or not, there are this things called women, go out, you might spot one
>>767713983
I did not know this. if hes in a coma let him die then. disconnect the machines. He cannot sustain his life on his own. Get rid of the burden to society.
>>767712325
...M.C.A.
>>767714147
It was about how easy the question was for you to answer
>>767714116
a fetus is not a human. I have been arguing that for a while
>>767714119
God's not real and fetuses aren't people
>>767712325
No. I know this is bait, but anyone who really believes that a zygote, which has no fucking concept of life is alive, prior to being BORN the act of becoming alive is fucking retarded. I find it hilarious that you sub-human morons are of the same political spectrum that supports the death penalty, taking insurance from children, money from the poor to give to the wealthy (ie literally the new tax plan and everyone knows it), ending after school benefits for kids, increasing prison sentences, deportation EVEN if the child was brought here against their will and did nothing wrong, and god help them if they dare be born a minorty or a women, then they should bow to you as you strip their rights away, including that of a womans own body. I could be here all day you fucking incel cucks who want the government out of things until it upsets you, who want free speech, until it upsets you. You cuckhold retards are all that is wrong with life and you are too stupid even to see what worthless fucking concubines you are. Fucking waste of DNA. Your "family values" aren't fit to wipe my ass incels. Fucking sage.
>>767714063
The answer is pretty easy actually, yes.
Who you decide to murder is irrelevant : murder is murder.
>>767712325
OP look what you've done...
>>767714025
It a thought experiment if you could answer the question quickly then clearly you see more value in one than the other with easy and see where you should stand in the argument
>>767714226
yeah, thats what im saying
>>767714229
another fag who gets it
>>767714171
I'm the mom and I want that little fucker dead.
It's an inconvenience.
I didn't realize until it was 10 months old.
why cant I kill it?
>>767713402
Hardly. You're abusing terminology in order to spout irrelevant truisms, in order to disguise what your real "argument" which is "THEY HAVE SOULS OK?"
>>767712325
I haven't met them so I can't say if they're human or not. I wouldn't call 90% of the assholes I see walking around human. No one is home upstairs. They are just sacks of meat consuming and hating. I don't call that human.
>>767714226
> a fetus is not a human
Yeah, nazis tried that argument too.
>>767714154
Hey simmer down I was pointing the flaw out in your argument. We both understand embryos and niggers are worthless. And I don't have a dog in this Michael Vick party. I think abortion should be legal all the up to 18 months
>>767714164
Did I say I'm live in United State?
My country don't worship god of Abraham so we don't give a crap about abortion.
>>767714277
of course, but moral impulse isn't the same as rationality.
what if your kid was in one room and 5 babies were in another and you can only save one
>>767714324
bcause now it IS alive, still a useless fucker, but alive
Just give the baby up, it isnt that hard
>>767712325
Until it can live outside the human body, it is not a human yet. It is a parasite with human potential.
>>767714346
iv never mentioned a soul, iv spoken only about law and science, im not religious and there is no such thing as a soul.
>>767714358
they said Jews are not humans
>>767714368
Years... I meant years.
If he/she, whichever of the only two genders it happens to be, drops out of high school I'm gassing the cunt and trying again. College is too expensive to be fucking around
>>767714410
the streetcar dilemma is dumb example, thanos
>>767714455
parasites arent the same species as a host.
viability isnt a fixed standard, people can go in and out of viability over the course of their lives..
>>767714410
That still proofs my point that one is more valuable than the other depending on how fast you can answer this question but i guess I see what u are saying rationally speaking my kid dies but emotionally i would want to say the little fuck
>>767714506
yes, it is dumb, thats my point
>>767714457
Found the ginger. Nice try you soulless fuck
>>767714358
nazis believed also in art, so... artists are nazis?
>>767714277
So what? Just because people have a more emotional response towards babies than to embryos doesn't do anything to affect the moral status of an unborn human.
>>767714455
Unless you can live outside the social structure, you are not a human yet. You're a parasite with human potential.
>>767714538
fair enough, moving on
Not if there's no developed central nervous system. I feel like that's just ending the potential for human life. Which may be fine if the parents are not ready and can't consider adoption.
>>767714440
A fetus is alive from day one. Abortion is killing of a fetus. How hard is that to understand?
>>767714543
Volkswagen beetles drive all current nazis around to this day. Truly the people's car
>>767714440
a baby in the womb is alive and depends on mom to live
a 1 year old is alive and depends on his mom to live
mom wants to kill him when he's 1 year old.
using your criteria, mom should be allowed to kill her 1 year old.
>>767714531
moral impulse is to save your own child for most people.
that doesnt make the 5 babies less valid.
logically that doesnt make sense.
thats my point, i think its an interesting argument, but not particularly useful when deciding common law
>>767712538
this is retarded, so children with sicknesses, old people, people in coma or with brain damage are not alive?
>>767714565
You take a DNA sample of a human fetus and it will come back and tell you that it is 100% human. You can even know the gender of an embryo after a few days.
>>767714606
because people will resist a realization that they support something immoral.
its easier just to dismiss the whole thing as religious nonsense etc etc
>>767714543
Avoiding the question, again.
>>767712668
technically you are considered a paradise until you move out and start paying your own rent and taxes.
>>767712847
>People trying so hard to avoid the loss of human life. Lol so pathetic
>>767714646
Yeah for sure i wasnt saying the question i ask was going to end this debate it was meant to show that if you can choose one without even thinking twice about the other maybe that does say something about it's value maybe it doesn't
>>767714640
fetuses arent people
babys arent either, but theyll be one day
that why we have to terminate the fuckers before they can be people
>>767714616
are you trying to say youre not a nazi?
>>767714718
alive, yes
useful, no
>>767712325
>do we agree that abortion is ending a human life?
In this case, birth control methods that prevent the implantation of fertilized eggs end human life.
Life has not yet begun in either case. We measure our age from birth because before that our viability is tenuous.
>>767714852
Are you saying you aren't a jew?
>>767714718
yes yes yes
crippled, children, elderly, retards will go first
then the ones who cant financially live on their own. low IQ, uneducated, unemployed, people over 50
>>767714718
if the cannot survive without medical assistance, they should be let go and not be considered a human any more. they are a burden to society. just being sick or old does not make you inhuman. if your brain no longer works you cannot live without a feeding tube and breathing machine. at that point you are not a human.
>>767714885
If we were killing useless people this board would be empty
>>767714805
why is human life something to preserve?
>>767712325
Yes, abortion is ending a human life.
Yes, abortion has been proven to lower crime rates in impoverished cities in the United States.
Yes, the African American community would be twice as large today without abortions.
>>767714960
speak for yourself, basement troll
when it should be legal:
>very early stage of pregnancy
>kiddo will be significantly crippled or with some awful genetic disease and burden for society and especially parents for the rest of its life
>not doing so would highly endanger mother's life
when it should not be legal:
>later stages of pregnancy or when it puts mother in significant danger without proper reason
>after birth
Abortion is intrusive procedure to mother's body and even more so the later it's done. There are so many ways to regulate abortion - proper education on danger of it, only after approving by doctor from certain stage, after psychological testing when suspicion of abusing it... but it should be legal.
>>767714944
yes, if you are jewish, exit this board calmly, before anyone notices
>>767712574
Nothing wrong with either of those
>>767714961
Because as far as we know we're the only conscious beings in the universe
If you don't think that's something worth preserving why don't you kys?
>>767715005
actually shitposting because saturday at work is slow and lazy, but you know 90% people hare are neets.
>>767714816
well fair enough.
interesting back and forth at any rate
>>767712325
>you can end something that hasn't begun
>>767715018
now thats another excellent point that no one has even touched yet
Are retards people?
>>767715095
I refuse to believe you think that's a good answer... I believe you are better than that, even if you don't
>>767714838
we are all former fetuses
we are all former babies
the criteria is whether or not one can survive on his/her own.
a fetus cant
a baby cant
many other types of people cant
>>767715070
true, but where im standing its 3 am
>>767715119
anything alive that has human DNA is a human life.
>>767715039
Lucking they did nazi me.... *sensible chuckle*
>>767715193
even a downie that isnt going to make it past 15 and its just a waste of money and time?
>>767715189
>3am
>not asleep
>funcional member of society
anon ... I ...
>>767715234
i work hard man, if want to stay up until 3 am shit posting, im gonna do it, besides, i dont work saturdays
>>767715232
yes.
i think making exceptions leads to logical errors and is a slippery slope.
the only exception being a threat to the life of the mother. such as if she has cancer and treatment would kill the baby , etc etc
other wise you just start cutting moral corners
>>767712325
I don't see why conservatives are against abortions. It's the unemployed, dependent people who are having abortions.
>>767713977
from an economic standpoint, the babies are able to contribute more.
>>767715232
My sis is a downie and it was hell growing up. One year older than me but mentally stuck around ten
>>767715296
we almost all work hard at what we do, the whole neet incel thing is just a convenient way to dismiss people here
>>767715119
>Are retards people?
Short answer: NO
Most retards would not be able to survive on their own.
Left alone, they would die slowly.
It would be more humane to put them to sleep just like a dog.
>>767715232
You would support euthanizing a child with down syndrome? And you have no way to know if he would be a waste of time and money. Maybe something in his life kicks off another event that will have a profound positive impact on others. And maybe not. There's no way to know unless given the opportunity.
>>767715356
its not a conservative/ progressive thing.
its a when does life begin thing
it has been politicised for the expediency of politicians but really its a scientific and legal question
>>767715366
i dont get your point
>>767712325
consciousness doesn't manifest until 2-3 years of age, so no
>>767715529
i dont think as many people on here are losers as is generally assumed.
i think that's just a cheap insult in most cases.
>>767715356
And the Germans were equally confused when the world was against killing Jews
I mean, come on... Jews
>>767715559
consciousness isnt the same as life. you can be rendered unconscious permanently and i still cant actively murder you (a fetus will eventually "wake up")
also consciousness is poorly understood anyway
>>767715559
To be a living human you need to demonstrate consciousness? I think your timeline is a little off, but is it then ok to end the life a 2 year old child?
>>767715478
yes, because, a downie would not, and i want to make myself very clear on this, would NOT be a functioning member of society, not because he has a disability, but because, people wouldnt treat him like another human being, but an oblivious creature, they wouldnt be able to have jobs, or to start families, cuz theyre not human
>>767712325
>>767712325
by stopping the heartbeat, it, for me, is ending a life, even if it has no intelligence or understanding yet.
>>767715568
oh, now i see, well man, if we are such decent humans beings, what the fuck are we doing on /b/ then?
sorry if i insulted you
>>767715794
you didnt.
im here because I wanted to have a conversation about abortion without dealing with peoples feelings in person.
>>767715478
>Maybe something in his life kicks off another event that will have a profound positive impact on others.
The only successful "downies" I've ever seen is Corky, those casted with Johnny Knoxville in "The Ringer", and the Special Olympics themselves (which the Ringer was based off of).
And like acting and Olympics for normies,....they have a lottery winning chance at making it.
But UNLIKE normies, if you fail at your shot in Hollywood (for bit parts) or the Olympics, you don't get to fall back on meager slave-wage jobs, because those jobs get taken by failed normies (or immigrants); which brings up another topic "over-population".
So the question is, do you risk birthing and raising a downie baby to adulthood in the vain hope they'll make it? Or suffer pampering this kid forever?
Literally everyone argues if it is a life or not , a human or not ,mother's choice or not. What i think is really wrong here is how society forgot that the real/original purpose of having sex is reproduction. A fucking bitch or a stupid idiot who decided not to use anticonceptives because of how extremely horny they where now want to create excuses to get rid of such a big responsability without consecuences. If it alive or not does not change the monstruosity of the humanity
>>767715726
People with down syndrome can start families and can in fact have children without down syndrome. It's not that common but it happens.
>>767715869
you know, youre right about that
Doing this on person would definitely trigger someone
>>767712325
not until the umbilicle cord is cut do you begin where your mother ends
>>767712847
Why you don't have an argument as to why it should be legal, you say...
>Why not?
Fucking idiot.
>>767715942
>It's not that common but it happens.}
You just invalidated your own point
>>767715051
Human life isn't the only conscious being in the universe lol. Animals are all conscious beings.
>>767715967
its a minefield.
>>767716071
go fuck a fish, petard
>>767716037
The person's point was that they can't start families. I said they sometimes can. That doesn't invalidate anything.
>>767716115
i guess thats the beauty of 4chan, we dont get pissed off, because were just some fuckers on the internet fighting without being serious, man its good to be on this board some days
>>767715978
the most childish bullshit "argument" there is.
ok you want that? so if the doctor cuts the cord first, THEN its murder? Abortion is killing a human, fucking period, but that doesnt mean niggers shouldnt be able to do it for free.
Yep.
Depending on the time of abortion you could ask when this shitty thing becomes "alive"
>>767716185
>sometimes
That implies that they wount be able most of the time
>It's not that common
remember?
>>767712325
that baby was probably gong to be a liberal anyway
>>767716237
good point, alive is a common state, hell even plants and amoeba are alive
Conscious, now thats a horse of a different color
>>767716333
life isn't specific to humans, human life is specific to humans, there are laws regarding how we treat human life
>>767716409
agreed, well i guess that wraps thimgs up, another great /b/ discussion, nothing won, nothing lost, see you all next time
>>767716256
If there were only one case of a person with down syndrome starting a family, it would still be enough to refute the earlier post that people with down syndrome can't have families. It doesn't matter how rare or not it is.
>>767716505
you dont win discussions
>>767716505
Not if you get aborted first.
>>767715633
Have you seen the recen released papers by FDR? where he planned to disperse jews all over the world in orded to merge their population with locals?
The "conscious" argument is retard logic.
If someone was in a medically induced coma and had a 99% chance of regaining consciousness, you couldn't kill him because he would ruin your life once he became conscious.
99% of fetuses will gain consciousness. You cant kill one because they are temporarily unconscious
>>767716071
Wait a sec, gonna ask my dog what are his life plans and if he's aware of his mortality and finitude...
>>767712325
The goverment needs to stop telling us what we do/put in our body. I mean do you guys understand how ridiculous it is that some retard can tell other adults what we can do with our bodies, isn't that just absurd?!?!?
>>767716708
it's worse, because you can push it to extreme and successfully argue that since you lose chain of consciousness while sleeping, it's ok to kill sleeping people.
>>767716959
troll
>>767712640
>>767712551
Are you fucking stupid? It's a methapore
>>767717039
no shit shylock
its a crappy metaphore that avoids the issue
>>767717039
its what a stupid persons idea of something clever is
>>767712325
No sir.
>>767717020
Are you fucking kidding me? No im not trolling you retard
>>767716959
Do you realize how ridiculous it is that it is totally legal to kill, for whatever reason one wants, an innocent human life growing inside of a woman?
>>767717189
i dont believe you.
Hey, Vsauce. Michael here.
What is... 'Life'? Well, it's complicated, is what it is. Merriam-Webster defines it as, 'the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body'. But wait... There's more. Merriam-Webster ALSO defines it as 'the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual'. That's where things get... Complicated.
Ya see, some people believe that abortion is ending a human life-- and in a literal, scientific sense, they're right. That should make this whole argument pretty simple, right? WRONG.
Those in favor of abortion view it differently-- a human's life hasn't 'started' until they're capable of experiencing the things that make us human. Joy, sadness, complex thought-- y'know, the reason we're even able to HAVE this debate. But that doesn't answer the question of who's right.
In the end, it's a complex question with a lot of complex answers that are all kind-of right and kind-of wrong. But let's change our perspective to the person HAVING the baby. Are they ready? Are they financially stable? Are they in a supportive relationship? When you think about it, having this baby could potentially destroy not ONLY the mother's life if she's unprepared, but the child's, as well. "Well, just give it up for adoption," I hear you saying. The truth of the matter is that the adoption system is FULL of kids, and if a child isn't adopted at the prime ages (around three months to three years old), their chances of ever getting adopted go down DRASTICALLY, often causing emotional issues within children who never get adopted. For those who do get adopted, however, the situation can potentially be worse. There are many people out there who abuse adoption services, providing foster care to as many kids as possible JUST to get money from the foster system so they don't have to work. This can leave kids without the resources they need to grow into a healthy adult.
Anyways check out The Curiosity Box.
>>767717292
people sometimes hide behind the ruse of complexity to justify not being able to accept a simple truth
not always, some things are complex.. but not this.
>>767717395
Hey, Vsauce. Michael here, again.
Listen here you little shit, I didn't spend time typing up an explanation as to why it's such a heavily debated issue for you to chime in with your dumb little shit mouth and try to wipe away my hard work with nothing more than a 'Well I disagree'. You're lucky abortion isn't more widely accepted, because if your parents knew even a fraction of how dumb you'd end up being, they would have gone in with a coat hanger themselves. My whole livelihood is based around explaining complex shit and I wouldn't have made a video on this if it weren't.
>>767717292
The perspective of the person having the abortion isn't relevant. It doesn't matter if she's ready, financially stable, in a supportive relationship, etc. Can she kill her toddler if those criteria aren't met? The question is whether or not the fetus is a valuable human life. If it's not, have an abortion for whatever reason you want.
>>767717292
In America, you can legally kill in self defense or if your victim hasn't been born yet.
Humans are humans bro. Regardless of xp earned..
>>767712325
Why does it matter so much to people? If you live i one part of the country and some else gets an abortion how does that affect you. Even if your neighbor did what the hell is it any of your business. Why do you have any right to tell someone else how to live.
>>767717742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8yx4k4tzqE
>>767717888
because the fact that the law applies equally to all people, we share a society, a culture and civilization, is important.
>>767717888
If your neighbour abuses his wife and children, it's none of your business. If they own slaves, so what? If you're against slavery, just don't own a slave yourself. Stay out of other people's business.
>>767717888
Well, we have the issue of the parent taking her kids life.
Somehow that's OK at 9 months; but at 10 months its the fucking electric chair for mommy.
make sense?
>>767712640
> people*
* we're special and that's why stuff is different for us
>>767717999
Yes minding your own business is what this country needs more of.
![pro-choice-pro-life-what-race-is-it-18533468[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/lql7Lib.png "pro-choice-pro-life-what-race-is-it-18533468[1].png")
>>767718139
i give higher status to people than to eggs and even chickens, yes
>>767718166
the country of fourchan?
and no, not everything is your own business.
>>767717948
Why do we need laws to tell others how to live just because someone doesn’t agree with something?
>>767712325
Yes
>>767718020
If the mother wants to have an abortion the day shes due fuck let what the hell is it to anyone else.
>>767712325
No, abortion is just to cool to not do it
No, it's eliminating a cluster of cells.
>>767712325
nope abortion is a-ok
As long as it's early term
You get about three months to decide, that should be log enough you degenerates
>>767718226
Tell me why not then? How is it your problem if a baby is aborted right now?
>>767712325
Nope.
>>767712494
This. You're not at all killing a human being with thoughts and emotions and memories. You're killing potential - which doesn't matter one way or another to the potential. If you can live with that, go for it.
>>767717948
So /thread then ? most countries allow abortion by law.
>>767718513
Say someone was in an accident. They're in a medically induced coma. The doctor says their memories, personality, everything is gone. The doctor says they'll have to start from square one and relearn everything again, but they will recover and live a full life. Is it ok to kill this person before they wake up?
>>767718721
Yes.
>>767712494
Point of order: plants aren’t human and different morality is a work due to the difference.
>>767718762
Remind me not to give you power of attorney.
>>767718978
In every case that person would have brain damage beyond repair its u to the family to make that decision not anyone else.
>>767712325
Its like baking bread. You put dough in, you get bread out. But if you take the pan out early you get a sort of half baked mess.
When does dough become bread?
When does a fetus become a human life?
We can all agree it happens sometime in the oven, we just don't know exactly when. Honestly, I don't believe there IS an answer. We all have our opinions but in the end a fetus being a candidate for abortion can't survive outside the womb and turn into a proper, living human, the same way a pan of dough removed too early from the oven can't be converted into a delicious loaf of bread.
Sometime during the transition the dough becomes undercooked bread. Where is that line, I have no idea. All I know is I got a vasectomy so its never going to be a problem for me to worry about.
If you don't like abortion, dont do it. The same way nobody is making you drink a beer if you don't like it. If someone else wants to it in no way hurts you at all.
>>767714230
Underrated argument.
The cringelords in this discussion wouldn't so nonchalantly disregard the concept of abortion if it was their own fucking guts growing bloated and they had to poop the child out. Then you'd probably see a change in attitude pretty fuckn quickly. Good thing they don't though. They'd just fuck that up too.
>>767719120
>But anon muh religion and believe
You hit the nail on the head though with a great analogy 10/10.
and inb4 some retard tries to discredit you with:
>But people are more complex then bread anon.
>>767712325
Intentionally ending a human life is wrong under almost all circumstances.
Premeditated abortion is invariably ending a human life in accordance with my understanding of "human life".
Plan B / morning after pill seems to be reasonable though.
Fuck feminist rights, I would rather protect the rights of an unborn child regardless of gender.
murder is unlawful and intentional the killing of a human being, fetuses and embryos aren't human beings
>>767712325
We have enough humans as it is. Don't need more, especially if they are unwanted. I wouldn't wish that upon anything.
>>767719120
Shouldn't we err on the side of caution then when it comes to abortion? The child may be a valuable human life, it might not be. Would you throw someone in jail because they may or may not have commited a crime? You only do that after proving your case beyond a reasonable doubt.
>>767714230
>born a women
>using the plural form as singular
kys
>>767712325
No. i do not agree.
>>767712469
Because people who want to kill their children are not the people you want to raise the next generation.
>>767719405
>Your understanding of "human life".
Nobody gives a shit about you.
>>767719464
By personal choice I wouldn’t get an abortion unless I felt i had to. I however do not care if someone else does.
Abortion is okay, but only in the first trimester. After that it's clearly murder.
To me it isn't a living being until it's born. As long as it's not born, it is part of a female body, and she has the right to decide what to do with her own body.
I don't give much value to human life, for an adult or a kid. life of an embryo? haha!
>>767719750
Learn some science. Heartbeat starts around 6 weeks. Heartbeat=life. kys
>>767719871
Ah yes, by your logic a person that is braindead would be alive.
>>767719925
Braindead people are alive you fuckwit
>>767719735
what the difference and when precisely does it occur so that no room for error is left
>>767719960
The only reason they are alive is because they are kept alive by machinery, And thats why its also known as legal death you retard.
Go learn some stuff yourself before you bitch to other people.
>>767719960
Asshat would you take care of her for the rest of your life.
>>767719960
literally wut
Regardless of your views on whether its okay to end a human life.
do we agree that masturbating is ending a human life?
>>767713635
You're saying that i can go ahead and shoot a person in a vegetative state?
>>767720108
You are why I believe abortion should be legal until the 18th birthday.
>>767720033
three months, or 90 days, or 2160 hours or 129 600 minutes or 7 776 000 seconds
fuck off Christfag
>>767720139
If it is your child yes.
>>767720108
sperm is a dead end , as is the egg , unless fertilized.
>>767720189
christfag?... pathetic strawman, its a legal and scientific question only,
you cant answer me properly because you have no answer
you're all dumb
>>767718721
>The doctor says their memories, personality, everything is gone. The doctor says they'll have to start from square one and relearn everything again, but they will recover and live a full life.
This is impossible for any doctor to say and incredibly rare and practially impossble the way you describe it, but I'll play your shitty little thought experiment.
Yes, it is OK and as far as I'm concerned preferable to pull the plug. I would never want to wake up a blank slate with no memories and the mind of a newborn only to have to learn everything again and die of old age by the time I'm aware and able enough to enjoy life. That sounds like a living hell.
Asinine comparison and even more fuel for my philosophical position. Thank you.
>>767720033
>>767720079
>>767720085
>>767720086
You faggots have moved into a totally different territory. You can't compare abortion with life support, it's totally different and irrelevant.
>>767720301
But muh bible.
>>767720301
the question of when life begins and what differentiates its absence from later deficiencies that can occur later. is literally the point of all of this.
conception is the only definite standard, everything is guesswork to one degree or another.
conception is the only universal in this instance
>>767720394
nobody mentioned the bible
>>767720301
How so ? the foetus is basicly on life support from the mother. that you don't grasp how parallel those two things are just shows how much of a retard you are.
>>767719750
>>767720033
https://youtu.be/jgw4X7Dw_3k
This is second trimester, I don't even wanna know what third is like. Idgaf how edgy or sadistic you claim you are, if you can get behind this you deserve to be tortured slowly for as long as possible until you die the worst possible death.
>>767720435
Kys pleb
>>767720411
Abortion is fake the democrates are using the fetuses for demon rituals and satanic worship.
If we can agree that the morning after pill does the same.
>>767720301
>>767720394
lol IKR? Funny how conservatives always talk about the left and "awwe did I hurt your fee fees?" when their entire position on abortion is consistent only with their fee fees and no scientific merit.
"b-but the cell clusters have souls! Muh fee fees and muh jesus!"
No they don't. Fuck off .
>>767720301
I didn't compare shit faggot
>>767720475
>Knows hes wrong and therefore retarded
> HERP DERP KYS PLEB
10/10 anon.
>>767720493
but when does life begin?
1. condoms
2. Oral contaceptive
3. Morning after pill
4. Abortion
5. Illegal abortion
6. Leave the baby at the fire station
You've got plenty of options, don't complain about shit
>>767720292
There's nothing wrong with thought experiments. Both sides employ them often.
>>767712325
Ending one human life vs fucking up two human lives that will probably not have a good influence on society and might fuck up other people's lives in the process, just because that teenage girl was forced to keep the baby and be a mum instead of going to college...
Yes abortion means ending a human life, it's still better than the alternative.
Also, guys always complain about the girlfriend getting pregnant and not leaving them a choice in whether to keep the baby, but prohibiting abortion robs them of their right to choose altogether. It doesn't just affect women.
>>767720598
so murder is okay if you figure that it is worth it?
>>767712325
Of course. And if we only have two rights as as a species they would be:
1. To give birth
2. To be born
Discuss that next time some airhead bitch talks about her "right to choose."
>>767720559
That's simple: conception.
Why? Because up until that point something has to happen to create life. After that point, something has to happen to end the life.
Abortion is the devil’s work he want more souls to be sacrificed. The globalist elite lizard demons are behind all of this.
>>767720645
Thats kinda how the death sentence works isn't it.
Person to insane to fit in normal society -> deathpenalty
>>767720505
>>767720513
>>767720527
So if I were to round up 90% of the 4chan userbase and gas them all, is that murder?
>>767720699
what are we fuckin animals? Maybe you are but all this shit, all of it is so we're not just animals and we get to choose.
All of it, clean water, a place to live, civilization itself is all so we aren't forced to do shit we don't wanna do. That's what it means to be human. The right wing doesn't understand that shit. Liberal. It's literally in the name.
>>767712325
Why do fags think human life is so valuable? Give me a reason that doesn’t involve God or “we is smart”. Who gives a shit if someone sucks out a fetus, you guys should adopt those unwanted babies if you are so against abortion. This conversation is retarded.
>>767720237
Even though the child has been able to express themselves prior to being in that state? If so, how is it different from killing an adult in the same condition?
>>767720872
The globalists
>>767720645
Well, the death penalty is also murder if you go that way, bombing Irak and Syria "for the sake of freedom" too.
It's about getting the best tradeof possible, because there never will be a society everybody agrees with.
But trust me no woman has ever happily had an abortion like it was nothing.
>>767720872
You should take in and provide for battered women if you're against abuse. You should be paying for slaves' freedom if you oppose slavery.
>>767720893
Why would you leave anyone in that state.
>>767720872
>this conversation is retarded
Yet you felt the need to join in. kys
>>767720977
That is literally wat is happening and has happend in the past.
People have bought slaves there freedom in the past.
There are groups that do take in and protect/provide for abused women.
I am not saying he is 100% correct but he has a point, if people feel that strongly about the subject maybe they should.
>>767720968
nonaggression principle
a fetus is literally the most innocent person, hasnt harmed anyone..
>>767721143
And people are adopting children from crisis pregnancies. People are taking unused embryos and using them themselves.
>>767721147
Strawman white knight cuck
>>767721215
Satanic demon worshipping democrates
>>767721035
Some people make a recovery from those states and will more or less function the same as before. Unless the person has stated that they want to be killed, isn't it wrong to take the opportunity to live away from them?
>>767721147
Yet it being born without being wanted will destroy the life of his mother, its own, and globally be a negative influence on society.
It's not about being guilty or innocent, we're all born innocent, it's about being born in good conditions with a proper environment.
Anybody can make a baby, not everybody is fit to raise it.
>>767721147
So harm is the bar?
a person is a person, doesn't matter what they do
some people die falling out of bed
killing a fetus is nothing
>>767721215
And they literally do not have to ever
unless it's because they can't have a child themselves
The world should be logical
>>767721307
Not at the hardships it may cost. It becomes a big burden on families to make either choice but it’s their choice not mine or yours.