>here's me, a 146 IQ genius, born into a well-educated middle class family, telling you that you need to stop hating yourself and get your life in order
>>769224025
>>769224090
Fuck off bot
>>769224025
Based lobster king is based.
>>769224072
Because not everyone is a 146 IQ genius raised by well educated parents. Some people are mediocre and below average, this is what makes them hate themselves. It's easy to lecture people on this stuff when you're a genetic lottery winner, but not everyone is like that.
>>769224336
Why in the fuck would being mediocre give you a reason to hate yourself? I'm pretty sure it only happens because it's easier to just wallow in self-pity rather than try to make the best out of the situation.
>>769224336
play the victim and be the victim
>>769224025
Oh, ok. Thanks anon. All fixed now
>>769224336
You don't have to be a genius to take responsibility of your own life.
Using any sort of identity to excuse not taking responsibility for yourself is just that, an excuse.
I've got ADHD with autistic tendencies, yet I don't let that stop me from being as normal and successful as I can.
Jordan Peterson sucks dick.
>>769224025
>and all you have to do is buy my $30 shit self-help book instead of the literally millions of other self-help books that say the exact same thing
>don't hate yourself just spend money like you do
>>769224025
He was a relatively obscure professor the majority of his life.
He went viral, from something dumb and it snowballed.
No reason to hate.
>>769225626
The contents of his books can be found for free in talks he has broadcasted on youtube. You don't need to buy anything to listen to his proposed solutions.
>>769225626
>that say the exact same thing
Not even the slightest bit true. Did you actually read it or are you just shitposting
>>769224025
>his opinions are worth less because of the group identities you've attached to him
right so you couldn't understand what he means when he talks and that upsets you, gotcha
>>769225882
But anon, if I'm not allowed to attach labels to people I dislike, how can I justify my victim mentality?
>>769224832
How wouldn't it give you a reason to hate yourself? You're just a copy of everyone around you; there's nothing special or interesting about you. All you're expected to do is work, fuck, make mediocre children, and die. You will never go to the best universities, you will never be successful, you will never be able to grasp deep concepts in science or philosophy, you will never invent something, and your offspring will be just as mediocre as you. I think it's utterly immoral to have children if your IQ is below 130 unless you have superior physical genetics, at least then maybe your child can become an athlete or something.
>>769224025
Fuck off angry white man
>>769226041
you're not expected to do any of those things, and honestly most people would prefer if you DIDN'T have kids. Hating statistical facts doesn't harm them in any way, they will remain true whether you hate them or disregard them or are ignorant to them.
Reading his second book now. He's a negative dude. I doubt his IQ is 146 as I'm 135 and I can see flaws in a lot of his arguments. Also, he's religious so definitely sub 120. In his book he said he spent over a decade trying to figure out what a passage in Genesis meant. That's not smart, that's fuckin' retarded m8. His pretentious quotient is probably 146 tho.
>>769226213
what statistical facts?
>>769226272
He said it was 146 in one of his videos if I remember correctly
>>769226272
haha
>being this ignorantly arrogant with a mere 135 iq
>>769226041
You do know that if everyone's 130IQ, basically everyone's 100IQ, by definition? Half the people are _below_ average.
Also, you're expected to do what you can. Even better, if there are things that you are better in than most people, do that. It's not true that there is nothing special about you. You might not be (ok, you're definitely not) the best, but that's not the point either.
Maximize your contribution to the world. You can maximize your contribution even if you're "mediocre", by definition.
Also, your children will not be exactly like you, due to mutations, recessive genes coming forward, etc. I've known many exceptional people with less than exceptional parents.
>>769226272
Why in the fuck is being religious sub 120? Because you are so smart and not religious, and it cannot be any other way?
>>769226293
that most everybody HAS TO BE mediocre or worse.
My IQ is only 134,so I guess I am doomed to be 12 points less happy than OP.
Oh, and my family was not that well educated and more like lower middle class, so I guess I should be even less happy, right?
Oh and I never finished college, so probably even less, right?
The fact that I made something of myself, got a family of my own, own a big ass house in an upper class neighborhood and have a job that provides plenty of fulfillment and plenty of money to spare has nothing to do with it. At least according to some posters on here.
Oh, and I just happen to be one of those fucking minorities that everyone hates so much, so apparently I'm blaming everyone else for my problems, right? According to 4chan. Nevermind that I've literally never blamed anyone for the dumb shit that has happened to me.
The fact is, I agree with OP. If you're miserable, it's because you make yourself miserable.
>>769224025
Your wasting your breath because nobody cares and if you where a 146 iq genius you wouldn't feel obligated to state that immediately because you would know only stupid people assume people will just believe they have a high iq without evidence
>>769226471
>Why in the fuck is being religious sub 120? Because you are so smart and not religious, and it cannot be any other way?
Religiosity has strong negative correlation with IQ. Being an atheist doesn't make you smart but higher intelligence does not combine well with irrational beliefs.
>>769226471
Yes but then 100 IQ would be much more meaningful than the current 100 IQ mark so your point isn't useful.
>>769226272
If you're 130 something and you're trying to contend with someone nearing 150, you'll mistake your own inability to understand for flaws in their argument.
>>769226628
>Reddit spacing
>claiming to have a high IQ
THE LITERAL STATE OF THIS WEBSITE
>>769226628
>The fact that I made something of myself
>posting it on 4chan /b/
>>769226628
I don't think that was ops point though.
The way I read the op, he was asserting that Jordan Peterson has it easy and that he doesn't know what advice to give people because of it.
Some studies have actually shown that the smarter an individual is, the more inclined they are to feel down and worry too much about life.
So if anything, I'd posit that Jordan Peterson is giving solid advice based on experience, since he is that smart.
>>769224025
YES ALL THE SCIENTIFIC DATA THAT HIS RESEARCH IS BASED ON IS JUST WHITE PRIVILEGE
fucking farm animal moron OP
>>769226694
he is not religious, he acknowledges religious text for what it is. stop trying to use group identities against an individual you ignorant subhuman.
>>769226471
I understand that if most people had an IQ of 130, then people with 130IQ would be mediocre. That's not the point. I don't hate mediocrity if the level that's considered mediocre is actually high. The average PhD recipient has an IQ of 130. Now imagine if the average IQ of the world was 130. Imagine how much more happy and competent people would be.
>Children won't be like you
IQ is genetic
>>769226628
>got a huge house, family, blah blah blah...
yeah and that has NOTHING to do with your superior genetics, right? I mean, imagine if you were born to stupid crackhead parents in a ghetto and your IQ was 90, do you think you'd be able to achieve what you have now? I doubt it
Daily reminder that the things which Peterson says that are actually true are either blatantly obvious or utterly irrelevant, and he likes to hide total nonsense in-between such statements.
>>769226946
By his own definition, he is religious. The problem is that his definition of religion is totally useless.
>>769226696
Yeah, but even 90IQ people are a net positive to society, so no need to have "more meaningful people". Go read Brave new world, it has a thought experiment with an all-intelligent-people island.
>>769226694
Height also correlates with intelligence. That actually does not mean that tall people are smart (the curve tapers off), but short people are dumb, because of deficiencies in childhood cause both.
Same thing with religiousness: radical christians are pretty fucking stupid, but after a point, there is no correlation. Also if you saw any of JBPs video, you'd at least consider the following:
Religion helps you unlock your genetically encoded inner wisdom. It helps a lot in life.
>>769226471
See when someone complains about "100 iq being low" in some way, you might autistically spaz out over the technical point that 100 is supposed to be the AVERAGE.
In reality, right now in this moment the 100 mark is a direct score on a test that represents a very specific level of intelligence, let's call 100 "three steps above a dog".
You're not talking about people being average, you're talking about the average being "objectively" low.
>>769226884
OP here. I wasn't attacking his 'research'. I was simply pointing out that he is a genetic lottery winner who had a privileged upbringing and now he is trying to lecture people less fortunate than him, telling them that it's their fault for being unhappy.
>>769226955
>if the level that's considered mediocre is actually high
Are you saying that the current mediocre level is not high? I'd say it is. Average people do amazing things if you think about it.
>IQ is genetic
Yeah, but not fully. Your children might not be the next [smart person], but could be way smarter than you.
>>769226772
Quite the contrary. I understand his arguments and while pretentious, there are many logical fallacies. Also everything does not need to be a Jungian, Olympian or biblical metaphor. The dude is way more pretentious than smart. The first chapter of the book is about standing up straight and making your bed. What are you positing I don't understand? Jordan's wisdom is common sense wrapped in flowery language and metaphors.
>>769227064
He has a personal belief that doesn't really leak out into the world as much as his secular views on the bible.
What you'll see in lectures and so on is a secular analysis of religion and not his personal convictions that he seems to be in complete control over and aware of.
>>769224025
For someone with a 146 IQ, you're not really smart then.
>>769227197
>it's their fault for being unhappy.
And what if it is? It's easy to dismiss arguments based on the speakers background without even thinking.
Dismiss it based on evidence rather. But I doubt you can. (because he's smarter than you)
>>769226772
>Peterson isn't wrong, you simply don't understand his genius!
The eternal cry of the Peterson acolyte.
>>769225530
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>769227228
Maybe the book isn't for you then. Common sense is not exactly common.
>>769224025
It's possible to do everything right and still have a shitty life tbh. And a lot of those people stop caring and just fall apart. That's just how it goes sometimes. Not everyone get to be "The Hero".
>>769227238
His personal beliefs 'leak out' plenty in debates, interviews, and conversations.
>>769227228
Jordan is a cult leader
>>769227227
>Average people do amazing things
WHAT? The average joe blow goes to school, gets average grades, learns a trade like bricklaying or plumbing, gets married, has kids, and lives the rest of his life in depressive nihilism, going to pubs and getting drunk out of his head to forget about everything. The average person is fucking nothing.
>>769227400
How could you be a "leader" of individualists though? It's like being a leader of anarchists.
>>769227337
Oh anon, I see where you get this from, but I'm talking actual autistic tendencies, not the internet ad hominem version.
>>769227094
where did you get that 90iq are a net positive?
That's just very far from true.
And even if that was the case I really don't see how it's related to whether or not we need more meaningful people.
An argument in both of these cases is the envionrment, the average person is an environmental catastrophé meanwhile we clearly need more meaningful people to tilt it back.
Look up the pareto distribution, meaningful people do literally all the work of progress in the world while even the above average person can barely keep a zero sum.
>>769227479
The other anon is a cat herder by profession, so his view is a bit biased.
>>769227197
he's trying to lecture people less fortunate than him USING RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE you MORON
>>769227479
The solution is simple in that the question is flawed: Jordan's followers aren't individualists.
lmao just relax, don't be an asshole and don't associate with assholes, and do something you love
easy peasy you'll be dead before you know it
>>769227463
Having electricity 99.999% the time is pretty fucking amazing considering all the things that can go wrong. Having structures that last well over 100 years is also a fucking miracle. And yes, not having shit flood the house every week is also not a given.
So yes, average people make the world the place it is. We need everyone and more for our civilization. If anyone tells you otherwise, they don't have your best interest in their mind.
>>769227197
if you are unhappy it is 100% your fault and no one elses no matter the circumstance bud. stay ignorant
>>769224336
/thread
>>769227536
Interesting thought. Then these followers don't actually follow his "teachings".
>I wonder where I saw that before
>>769227309
The evidence is all on my side. Kids who grow up lower class end up staying poor. Kids who grow up middle class end up staying middle class. Kids who grow up rich end up staying rich. The only difference is that the rich kids are able to become poor but the poor kids aren't able to become rich.
I don't want to make this a class thing, because it's about genetics really, not class. But it's true that the people in the lower classes generally have inferior intelligence to the people in the upper classes.
>>769227228
>If you're 130 something and you're trying to contend with someone nearing 150, you'll mistake your own inability to understand for flaws in their argument.
>"Quite the contrary"
Did you really just fucking reply this you absolute moron? Quite the contrary, so a 150 iq person would mistake their own unability to understand someone at 130 iq and mistake it for flaws in their logic?
Wow you absolute retarded moron, you might have 130 iq but your autism is really getting in the way of using it.
>>769227491
People with 90IQ assemble cars and phones. We need those.
We need more people. period.
>does not make what is said any less true
thanks for the reminder OP, i needed to hear that today.
BasedPapa
>>769227318
That's no-where close to what I said.
The eternal cry of the Cathy Newman acolyte.
What is worse? Retard moron.
>>769227395
Did you stop reading my post mid sentence and missed the part ".. as much as his secular views on the bible."?
You just repeated exactly what I said, leaving out half of the rest of the sentence for no reason.
Nice farm animal IQ, retard.
>>769227666
>Kids who...
Not here. Maybe it's just the US that sucks.
>>769227677
HAHAHAHA
NO
Robots do that, we don't need the people just the robots.
>>769227729
It's extremely close to what you said.
Also,
>you simply misinterpreted Peterson! That isn't what he meant!
Another classic from the Peterson-cult.
>>769224025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVM1g5yafzk
>>769227798
Not sure where 'here' is but this is universally true in every country unless you live in a communist/socialist country where they've abolished classes
IQ is a meme.
>>769227825
All I did was make an empirical observation.
Your farm animal IQ is the only thing making you read into it all the crap you're talking about.
>>769227812
Not really, there are many many things that robots can't do cost-efficiently. We're not living in the future yet. Not to mention all the actual trades that literally anyone can learn, but robots won't be able to do for the next few decades.
>>769227786
What evidence do you have that his personal beliefs 'leak out' less than his secular views?
>>769227812
they just get a promotion to robot greaser....
>>769227886
>All I did was make an empirical observation.
Except you didn't. You're self-projecting your own inadequacies onto me.
>>769227896
Yes but the jobs mentioned have ALREADY been replaced with robots to a majority.
>>769227870
Not really. Most places where education is actually free (e.g. EU), your parents' financial status is less of a predictor for yours than your intelligence and your tendency to be hardworking. And that too only _correlates_ with your parents', not exactly computable from them.
There is no rich conspiracy (only at the highest range). If you're good, you'll find a well paid job.
>>769227094
>Believing an invisible old man is watching you from a cloud.
>Having a high IQ.
Pick one.
>>769228017
Neither car wiring, nor most phone assembly is replaced by robots.
>>769228078
Religion is not beliving in the old man. Build a better strawman, bud.
>>769227998
What the fuck?
No, literally all I did was make an empirical observation.
And then you replied with the most retarded thing possible which was "quite the contrary", literally telling me IQ works in reverse.
And you don't see how fucking stupid that is?
You're projecting your own insecurities onto yourself through my post which was a simple imperical observation; you're more likely to misunderstand someone with a significantly higher IQ than yourself than you are likely to discover flaws in their reasoning.
This is an emperical observation and you retards are the only ones reading into it with your own insecurities and projections.
>>769228170
sorry for the spacing
>>769224336
bullshit.
actually dumb people are to dumb not to be happy.
>>769227595
>electricity
>structures
What has that got to do with them being unintelligent and without merit? It's not like they discovered electricity or invented the lightbulb or engineered the house. They just bought those things. The fact remains that the average person will live life feeling useless as shit, never accomplishing anything of importance, and working for people who are genetically superior to them.
>>769228170
>literally telling me IQ works in reverse.
I think you have me confused with someone else.
dumb people are happy because they don't understand what they should worry about
we "won the lottery" and the prize is a life of constant fucking worry
>>769228078
You must have a pretty low IQ if that's what you interpret his position to be. I feel you, though. He's not using words in the most transparent way possible.
>>769228316
If anything, he uses words in an intentionally obtuse way.
>>769228151
>taking stories from a book literally rather than as anecdotes meant to instill a new set of morals, values, and a deeper more profound understanding of "good" and "evil", in it's time, and rather than learning from it like intended twisting it into a way to extort and judge others while keeping a veil of ignorance over millions of peoples eyes making them more closed off to information and reason, and more perceptive to delusion and fantasy.
fixed that for anon...
>>769226041
Found the sped...
>>769224025
Didn't he say it was in excess of 150?
The person who said it notwithstanding it's still good advice. Hating yourself can turn into a self-reinforcing pattern by negative confirmation bias very quickly. No matter where you are or what your circumstances in life is - hating yourself just makes it worse and makes it seem as if there's nothing you can do, really, when often, you absolutely can. Defeatism helps noone.
>>769228300
One thing is discovering electricity and another is maintaining a huge electric network. Both are absolutely important. People may not thank you explicitly for not having to deal with regular blackouts, but that shouldn't stop you, you are making them less miserable even without them knowing it.
Of course if you mean "never accomplishing anything" is "never getting famous for something", you are a narcissistic fuck and need to work on that.
>>769226955
Hey, somebody with a brain. I'll talk to you.
I do agree that being born with a high capacity and desire to learn has gotten me far. But I know plenty of friends at my level who have high paying jobs who are frickin miserable. My point about me having money wasn't about the money, it was saying that just because you're born in the ghetto, doesn't mean you have to stay in the ghetto. People don't want to admit it, but there are people rotting in jail right now with 150+ IQ who were given every opportunity and chose to still do dumb shit and ruin their lives. And there are people with an IQ of 90 who were born in shit who live amazing lives.
Choices are what make a life. What attitude you choose to have, how you choose to view your failures, and how how happy you choose to be with your life whether you're rich or poor.
Happiness can't be measured. Neither can misery. Each and every one of us chooses our lot in life and I take no pity on people who are willingly miserable because of their race, or intellect, or religion etc. Especially in America and Europe. We're playing the game on easy mode.
Now there are situations that are genuinely hard. And I recognize that. But personally, I value effort over all else. If you're willing to learn and try and fail and learn more etc etc etc, there's no reason not to be satisfied with the life you create.
>>769228309
Then I don't understand this part
>You're self-projecting your own inadequacies onto me.
The only part that could be seen like this would be my original reply to >>769226272
So that's not "you", then.
>>769228391
The fact is JBP literally teaches that you have to take stories from the Bible metaphorically.
>>769224025
>146 IQ genius
kek
>>769224025
You can say it all day long. Doesn't change the fact that i have an awesome job/wife/friends and still feel like a useless piece of subhuman shit 24/7.
Good luck anons. Anxiety and depression is absolute hell on earth. Don't let it win.
>>769228055
'tendency to be hardworking' isn't a thing that can be empirically measured so my guess is that you got these stats from thin air
The reality is that the average IQ of all university graduates is 120. The average IQ of all PhD recipients is 130.
Hard work =/= success
Hard work + superior genetics = success
fuck trying to argue with people below 130 is a fucking nightmare
kill me now
>>769228482
>So that's not "you"
Right, that isn't me. I start here: >>769227318
>The only part that could be seen like this
Clearly not, since I see other parts like that.
>>769228549
Lots of people find success through hard work alone, lots of people find success through genetic lottery alone.
>>769228300
I think he is saying that we need plumbers and bricklayers. Not everyone can or should be a great inventor or scientist. Those great people are not useful without people to build and maintain the infrastructure and devices designed they have designed. Similarly, people need to farm and process the food that they eat and make the clothes that they wear. Societies need mediocre people to function.
>>769224025
Only works for the 146 iq genius
Everyone dumber literally needs Jesus, whether true or not
>>769225591
YOU TAKE THAT BACK FAGGOT! an actual doctor actively studies our memes.
You fuck off right directly
>>769228549
It can be measured, it was measured, and correlation found. Search for "measuring conscientousness" and "conscientiousness correlation to success" on scholar.google.com.
>>769225626
Ugh I'm so tired of self help books that go deeply in depth to lobster social structures and compare the way modern society handles mixed cultures vs how more ancient cultures (Greece) handled it. Same old story every time amirite guys?
>>769228593
see this makes no sense, so it would be my inadequacy that I mean a lot more with what I said than only what I said, and so I'm projecting that inadequacy onto you?
I didn't even call it an inadequacy that you're reading a bunch of crap into it I'm just telling you it's wrong because obviously I know what the fuck I meant with what I said...
>>769228391
>taking stories from the Bible metaphorically applying them to random situations to impart a profundity to extremely simple concepts everyone already knows such as "good" and "evil" while also being pretentious and condescending talking at length about old man bickering such as kids nowadays not standing up straight with their shoulders back.
fixed that for you anon.
>>769228480
But this is just empirically false mate.
Yes, there are some people born in shitholes that end up becoming great, but the VAST majority end up staying there.
If you're born lower class, the chance is you're going to stay lower class
If you're born middle class, the chances are you're going to stay middle class
If you're born upper class, the chances are you're going to stay upper class
>>769226109
I lold
>>769228906
>some people born in shitholes that end up becoming great, but the VAST majority end up staying there
Vast majority are lazy people who don't deserve more than what they get.
>>769228537
too bad so many don't practice what they preach, we're talking the average, the people that like for amen and share if they love jesus.
>>769228906
Intergenerational wealth is gone within 3 generations typically.
Your low IQ arguments are irrelevant here.
>>769226694
>correlation = causation
>keep listening to the rest of what I'm saying now
Lol
>>769228897
>simple concepts everyone already knows
I disagree with you. Most of the concepts he's talking about were pretty much forgotten in the last 100 years. (Like letting people speaking their mind, even if they have retarded ideas, is a good thing. Or that long-term committed relationships are a good foundation for a society, and should be encouraged)
His actual argument is that even the "self-evident" things are not really self-evident, but are a result of christianity molding the culture in the last ~2000 years, and we shouldn't forget that. And also reconsider from time to time what we already forgot, and what we shouldn't have.
If these are so self-evident, why do we have to teach this to children?
>>769228883
if i had a dime for everytime the superior lobster hierarchies were brought up in conversation and books...
>>769228886
>it would be my inadequacy that I mean a lot more with what I said than only what I said
Statements like "your farm animal IQ", calling me a "retard moron", assuming that I followed Cathy Newman, etc. These all point to your own inadequacies.
>obviously I know what the fuck I meant with what I said
There's what you "meant" to say and then there's what you actually said. I can only go on what you actually say, and trying to retroactively go back and say I'm wrong because you didn't "mean" to say it changes nothing.
>>769227141
IQ tests are shit anyway. I hate math and cheated all through high school. I am a redneck MacGyver. Brains have nothing to do with a faggot paper test made up by desk-jocky cucks
>>769229063
The original argument was that intelligent people can't be religious, JBP being one example, and that was the only thing I wanted to counter.
>>769229112
Even if that's true, it doesn't change the fact that poor people typically stay poor
>>769229200
see you get it
>>769229270
Ahhahahha, I have bad news kid: IQ tests are science, as well studied as many physical things, and the evidence is overwhelming.
le meme comes to mind: "Am I just stupid? No it's the tests that are wrong"
>>769229143
Correlation implies causation. Illustrating that dumb people are religious is not exactly controversial (unless you're dumb).
>>769224336
Iq of 136. Well educated in middle class family. I struggled through school because of some learning disabilities. I thought I would be nothing and I hated myself. Iq doesn't make you successful. You can he smart as anything or as thick as a rock and still work on your life. I'm a lawfag now. Something I thought I could never be. If I can go from the depths of depression and self hatred to success so can you no matter your intelligence. Now fuck off and work for your dreams you mong.
>>769229427
It most certainly not imply that. It implies:
Causation in _either_ way, or causation by a common element. Also, correlation for the whole set does not imply correlation in a part of the set (like the top 10% or the bottom 50%, the correlation might just vanish or reverse)
This is why statistics should be mandatory in high school.
>>769229272
if that's the case then i guess it's about how you define religious.
you can have daily rituals that seem religious, like prayer, but it is used as meditation of sorts, a way of reviewing yourself and your downfalls with the hope of improving yourself, a daily reminder of where you need to work on yourself, or where you can give yourself a little slack, etc. I think you get the idea, without it being to some omnipresent and all powerful entity.
>>769227400
>a good cult leader.
Ftfy
>>769224025
He's the best conman of this century. He figured out that if you state common sense to fucking idiots in a slightly verbose way they'll think you're a genius and buy things from you.
>>769229200
>long-term committed relationships are a good foundation for a society
>Most of the concepts he's talking about were pretty much forgotten in the last 100 years
>146 IQ genius
I lol'd
>>769229267
See if I would have just called you a retard moron and said that you had a farm animal IQ with no reason behind it then yes it would make sense.
But in the context I actually mentioned why I think this way and so unless that part also is part of projecting of the inadequacies it doesn't work that way.
I only meant exactly what I said which was that someone at 130 iq will be more likely to mistake his own misunderstanding than to discover flaws in the reasoning of someone at 150 iq, you're the one that decided to read more into it saying I'm somehow using this as a point against JBP when I was just telling this random guy that thinks he's "understanding the flaws" of someone much smarter than himself that technically this is not likely to be true, doesn't matter if it's JBP or anyone else.
>>769229770
TBH, if it was that easy, why haven't anyone else do this yet?
>>769229816
did he hit a nerve, o-NEET-chan?
>>769229818
-against +in relation to
>>769228377
I agree. Peterson seems to love drenching his talks in poetic language that is impossible to understand. Just watch his dialogue with William Lane Craig and the atheist lady where WLC and the lady were having a constructive argument about morality and how it relates to God, but whenever it was Peterson's turn to talk, he would start talking about his dreams and all this metaphorical shit that was completely irrelevant to the conversation. He even though transcendentalism meant transcending.
>>769229270
I found out my IQ when I did entry tests to join the military, it was a very well made test.
>>769227798
>3rd world shithole dweller detected
>>769229770
common sense is not common and only a normie thinks that it is.
it's what they appeal to when they can't justify their positions.
>b-but other people would agree with me!
>>769224025
>146 IQ genius
That's a really low IQ for a /b/tard. You're not intelligent for this forum.
>>769230047
kys
>>769228078
>going to hell
>going to heaven
Pick one...
>>769228316
>>769228377
>>769229876
What I really dislike about him is that he doesn't usually answer questions, but goes on very long tangents. This is fine in a lecture, even interesting, but there are still some things I would love him to clarify, but he always appears to dodge those.
>>769230114
you will go to hell unless you donate all your money to me
you don't want to go to hell, do you?
>>769230047
are you legitimately autistic or do you just not know who jordan peterson is
>>769224025
He's a psychologist who works with a lot of people with fucked up lives. And I thought he grew up in a poor area, though I might be wrong.
>>769230145
>le_luther_face.shitpost.scriptureOnDoor
>>769229876
That is simply you not able to comprehend the complex metaphors of Peterson due to your inferior intelligence. He redefines words as well as coining new ones as he is a total genius.
>>769230159
His mother was a librarian and his father was a school teacher or professor. He was comfortably middle class.
>>769229041
This.
I didn't pull myself out of the ghetto by somehow solving some magic equation that no one else could solve. I got my ass to work and decided that I'm not staying in the fucking ghetto. I worked my ass off at whatever bullshit job would have me and moved out as quickly as possible. And I kept working and finding better jobs and moving further away for literally 20 years.
I think laziness is the main problem in our society. People get to a point and just say "this is good enough" and then complain about everybody doing better than themselves. Because it's easier to complain than to work your ass off and do better. Or do the scary thing of finding a better job than Mcdicks and making a serious effort to survive at that job instead of just settling and saying they're the only people who will hire you.
There's entry level jobs everywhere that take people with zero experience. All you have to do is show up and put in some fucking effort and there's a good chance you'll make at least SOME money and affect some sort of change in life.
>>769230129
Out of curiosity, what do you want him to clarify?
I`d let him fist my ass elbow deep in return for a free 1 hour long life changing consultation.
>>769229410
>le meme.
Wow dude. Cover your autism before it hurts someone else.
>>769229818
>with no reason
Your "reason" was the bald assertion that I was wrong.
>I only meant exactly what I said which was that someone at 130 iq will be more likely to mistake his own misunderstanding than to discover flaws in the reasoning of someone at 150 iq
Except that isn't exactly what you said, now is it? What you said, exactly, was "If you're 130 something and you're trying to contend with someone nearing 150, you'll mistake your own inability to understand for flaws in their argument."
>saying I'm somehow using this as a point against JBP
I never said that at all. What I said was "The eternal cry of the Peterson acolyte." I never said you were making a point against Peterson, and I'm not making a point against Peterson either. I'm making a point against you.
>I was just telling this random guy that thinks he's "understanding the flaws" of someone much smarter than himself that technically this is not likely to be true, doesn't matter if it's JBP or anyone else.
This starts getting into the territory of an argument from authority, that the smart person must be right because they're smart. This is simply fallacious. Peterson and any other smart person is still a human at the end of the day and prone to making mistakes. You do not have to be smarter than they are to recognize those mistakes.
>>769230199
I don't think this prevents him from giving advice. Being a psychologist, he has a more objective view of how to solve life problems.
>>769230241
I don't have specifics, TBH I forgot them, I have more important things to keep in mind. However watching his Q/A I'm always left with this feeling that he didn't actually answer 1/3rd of the questions. Especially that recent university Q/A thing.
>>769230208
So is it just a huge coincidence then that lower class people end up staying lower class? It's got NOTHING to do with the fact that we live in a society that favours genetic traits such as intelligence that lower class people typically don't have? And it's got NOTHING to do with the fact that they were born and raised in a shithole, with shitty parents, shitty schools, shitty friends, etc.?
>>769226327
Didn't he say it was "in excess of 150"?
>>769229928
I missed 1 on the asvab. Real world shit > faggot math probkems that nobody will ever use
>>769230252
It's not autism if it's a meta-shitpost, my man
>>769230145
FAGGOT
>>769230360
Maybe. I don't agree with his views on religion, but he still says some interesting things sometimes. I think he's worth watching. Although it's never good to treat anyone as if they have all the answers.
>>769230436
Posting a thumbnail is tho fag
>>769230337
No, you're right. My point was that he has never experienced how it feels like to feel useless and mediocre because he's always been an exceptional genius. So for him, as somebody people would consider a huge winner, to lecture people who are genetically inferior to himself and tell them that it's THEIR fault for being miserable and that they shouldn't feel like a victim seems very condescending.
>>769230397
Not sure. I think he said 146, but I might be wrong.
>>769230360
University Q/A's suck, cos you don't get to ask a follow-up question.
>>769230528
>what is meta-shitposting,, Alex?
>>769224336
plenty of dumb/autistic/etc are perfectly happy because they put the work in when they were younger because they knew they were against the odds.
I mean there are fucking people with no arms and no legs who dont sit on 4chan and use speech-to-text to cry about their life, go outside and fucking do something
>>769230292
If I say something, and I mean exactly what I say, and you read more into it and I tell you it's wrong this assertion is not BOLD in any way.
>What you said, exactly, was
Yes, key points here being, 130 iq, 150 iq, mistake inability to understand for flaws.
This was the point, this was what was written, nothing more nothing less, has nothing to do with JBP.
I'm not saying the smart person must be right, i'm saying the smart person will have better reasoning than a dumber person. That's not the same thing as being right or wrong exactly.
>>769230208
He has given some practical advice. For example writing down exactly what you want in the future and how you'll get it does help a lot of people overcome laziness. But people need to stop treating him like Jesus.
>>769226293
in terms of the isaac newtons and einstiens of the world, they are about as common as 0.01%, the majority of the human population are inconsequential, and at the same time all it takes is 1 person to change everything, so instead of whining that you're not the 0.01%, you may as well shut the fuck up, try to imitate it, and even if you dont get close you'll still get further than crying to nobodies on 4chan
>>769230434
yeah there were no math problems in the iq test for the military
it was some pattern recognition/prediciton, it showed me 3d models and asked me to make a choice out of 4 choices for how I believe the BACK-SIDE of that 3d model looks like, lots of stuff like this that really seemed to get the core of my ability to understand, figure things and make good deductions.
>>769230370
It's not nothing. Of course it lowers chances. But that effect disappears after a few generations. I've seen whole families slip down into poverty - because they were pretty stupid and lazy.
I think this is the trend too. People with less fortunate financial background may only rise or lower so much. But in 3 generations that "so much" is pretty significant. And they rise and lower depending on their own attributes like intelligence and diligence. And while IQ correlates with the parent's IQ, there's a huge variance too.
You can see this if you do a multi-generational analysis: your pretty little graphs effect mostly disappears after 3 generations. Though this is not to say we shouldn't lower this to 1 generation, but the situation is not hopeless or catastrophic.
>>769224336
And he grew up with depression. Apparently now, even though he has learned to control it, there are days where he can't even get out of bed due to it. He isn't telling people that he didn't have advantages, he's making the ibvious claim that literally everyone has their own challenges. There could be someobody who grew up to a middle upperclass home who was sheltered their entire life, abused by their parents, and not have the tools they need to just survive. At the same time, there are people like me who grew up in a family of 6, by a single mother earning just on the poverty line who was given a lot of love and was able to work my way up to being middle upperclass myself at a young age.
Everyone is different, you can't classify people by group, because you don't know a single thing about anyone but yourself and the people close to you.
>>769228549
neet in denial and looking for excuses
>>769230586
Well, there wouldn't be a need to ask follow-up if he'd just answer the damn original.
>>769230370
wow its almost like theres 8 billion fucking people alive and almost every single country is overpopulated, and in shitholes like america they literally encourage "kill or be killed" behaviour, that is to say, there has to be a loser for there to be winners. Yes its possible to break out of the class system, but most people, such as yourself, would rather spend their time rationalising their position, and fail to realise instead of doing this they used that time to actually improve their position, their position would, well, improve
>>769230292
My whole point was he has sub 120 IQ as is very evident from his writing. Einstein wrote a book about relativistic spacetime dilation using a simple metaphor of two speeding trains. Peterson went through the story of Genesis to show how Adam and Eve are the archetypal yin and yang as well as the garden and the serpent so good and evil are very real and go back a long time. So that means stand up straight with your shoulders back because lobsters duel eachother to the death and if you don't, human beings with put you on the bottom of the pecking order like chickens and you'll be left wallowing in shit feeling bad about yourself because there is no such thing as being content in life you have to reach maximum potential or you will forever be a failure just like Archedepolis from the ancient Greek myth where he throws his arch nemesis Lanaditis into the void and surrounded him with flying pigs who shat on him forever.
>>769230875
Yea but if u could ask a good follow-up, he would have to talk about what he skipped in the first answer.
>>769224025
that's about it, yeah (except I've got my shit together already)
>>769230708
>you read more into it
I didn't read more into it. I took what you said exactly at face value.
>BOLD
I never said it was bold, I said it was bald, and it is.
>Yes, key points here being, 130 iq, 150 iq, mistake inability to understand for flaws.
Which is not necessarily the case.
>has nothing to do with JBP.
Except that you wrote it in reference to JBP.
>I'm not saying the smart person must be right
>i'm saying the smart person will have better reasoning than a dumber person
Which is not necessarily true. Smart people can have terrible reasoning. It's a mistake to assume that the smart person's reasoning is correct and that the dumb person cannot pick up on it.
>>769224025
Can someone recommend some of this guys kino?
>>769230974
there's a large turnover for rich people. The third generation ancestors of rich people are unlikely to still be rich. Most rich people today are self made. Capitalism is working as intended.
>>769230974
>almost every single country is overpopulated
I wonder what you base that on.
>there has to be a loser for there to be winners
This zero-sum-game theory is way too simplistic and far from the truth to be useful
>class system
Having lived in an actually socialist country, where there literally were 3 classes (plebs, party members, inner party members... I wish Orwell wasn't so right about that), I could say that your situation is nothing like a class system. Not to talk about literal fucking Idia.
But I like your overall message that people should just get their shit together.
>>769226041
Dude, most people are mediocre. You want to be special? You want to be a hero? Be an astronaut. Put in the fucking work. Unless you live in some shitstain third world country, theres no reason that you should be climbing that economic ladder if you're starting from the bottom. There are obstacles, sure, but there are obstacles for everyone. You like space and the sciences? Make your goal to become a NASA scientist or some shit. Fail at your goal? That's perfectly fine, if you had a goal that high and were really working for it, you probably had more than a couple successes in your life, and should be happy with it. Don't waste your life, and don't let yhose thoughts rule you. Be the best you you can possibly be, and there isn't a single reason you shouldn't at least die happy.
>>769230974
People live way better lives now than ever before in human history.
>>769231161
im not saying it doesnt work im just saying that there does have to be losers, or in economic terms "greater fools"
>>769231163
i mean overpopulation has been a concern since like 2010 or some shit, we're peaking soon but at the same time we keep making advances to its hard to pin down, but yeah its fairly common knowledge theres a population problem, see chinas one child policy and figures on poverty in america/UK. But yeah if you couldnt tell i did rush my post so i could have cleaned it up but like you say i have a good message so i just wanted to keep it simple
>>769224336
You sound like a nigger. Thinking people only have success because it was given to them. That's not how it works
>>769226946
It's kind of sickening to hear his beliefs parroted EXACTLY. and btw he absolutely is religious. Listen to his talk with Matt Dillahunty. Several times he says we can't be moral without being christian. Hes fucking religious and he can hop around the question all he wants but its pretty obvious.
>>769231030
top kek
>>769231167
I think it's really naive to suggest that anyone can be anything if they put in the hard work. The science is clear on this: some people are just inherently more intelligent than others and there's nothing you can do about this. Some people are just not cut out for some paths in life. You're argument is the equivalent of telling a guy who's 5'10" that he can be a successful basketball player if he just puts in the hard work; I'm telling him to find a new dream.
>>769231262
this is the most autistic subjective thing i've ever read, pretty sure the people who are homeless and starving arent happy, or maybe the people who live in brazil and get shot by both thugs and power hungry police, pretty sure theyre not happy, or fuck me, how about 50%+ of americas population whining about every single election or about inconsequential social shit
yeah we might have access to way more things, science has never been better and we indulge a great deal, but theres way more people than there used to be even 100 years ago, and alot of them have shit lives
>>769231294
I still don't think overpopulation is a problem. Maybe in India or China, but both are handling it. I think it's mainly eco-fear-mongering. To clarify there's nothing bad with preserving the environment as much as possible (and do things more efficiently energy and water-wise in the meantime), but that should not be any kind of primary goal. Looking at various statistics, like how much food, energy and raw materials we are capable of producing in the west, I'd say we are fine.
>>769231381
To be precise, he says we can't be moral without believing in God, but then he dances around what exactly God is while fidgeting with his ring.
>>769231112
Oh right bald well that makes even less sense since it's coming from an absolute authority, I'm literally telling you what I meant with what I said.
What you read into it was "you simply misinterpreted Peterson! That isn't what he meant!". Which, again, is not what I said, all I did was to make an empirical observation about IQ. The evidence that IQ directly correlates to reasoning is not a mistake.
It's entierly possible that JBP's IQ isn't 146.
>>769231294
Consider this:
You can produce a thing (let's say, a painting). You're a shit salesman, so you could only sell it for $1000.
Let's say I buy it from you for $1500, and sell it for $2000.
You got $500 than you'd have without me, and I also got $500. The guy who bought it for $2000 is also happy, because he got the painting (he wouldn't have otherwise, because you are a shit salesman, and would've sold it to someone, who's not really into paintings).
Who "lost"?
>>769226041
>Talks about stupid people not comprehending deep philosophy and science.
>says at the same time everyone with an IQ below 130 should not be allowed to have children
>pls proceed self castration for the bette rof humanity according to your view
>>769231430
well to be clear, and its poor timing cause it looks like im taking inspiration from thanos, but overpopulation isnt the "PROBLEM", but alot of problems would be far less severe if there were less people. Its almost like a "yeah no shit" statement, like "cant be traffic if theres no roads LMAO" but i think you know what im getting at, i just cant be arsed to type it out properly.
on a slightly different note i was thinking about it a while ago and it does amaze me that you need a license to drive a car or how theres age restrictions on tons of shit, but to literally create a consciousness that could one day effect the entire course of history, any cunt is freely allowed to do it. i feel like we dropped the ball hard in this area but because we've come so far in spite of that, if someone tried to impliment any sort of parent license or whatever the backlash would be insane
>>769224025
yo any of you winners ever use a cat like a condom?
shits dope let me tell you
nothings better than being nutz to buttz with your nice little pocket pussy while he moans in pleasure
have you ever eaten a whole mango?
>>769231582
the guy who paid $2000, he literally paid double the initial price for it, im not saying he isnt happy or he isnt totally loaded or whatever, im just saying in your scenario he is the worst off
Surely this post on 4chan will bring him down lol
>>769231479
Thanks for clarifying. This is, indeed, what I was referring to.
>>769231582
You dont know alot about the economy do you?
>>769231604
Yeah, my IQ is 121 so I'm not gonna have children unless I find a girl who's 140+ to balance it out.
>>769231604
I'm not gonna read his post but what you said doesn't seem right?
If stupid people can't comprehend deep philosophy and science it would only make sense that we would only allow smart people to reproduce?
>>769224336
I'm a 146 iq "" genius"" born into a upper middle class family, i look good enough, am successful enough, have plenty of hobbies and friends and i still hate myself. It's all about attitude not intelligence
>>769224336
>>769224832
>Why in the fuck would being mediocre give you a reason to hate yourself?
This. The world is overflowing with people who are excruciatingly mediocre but who think that they're the best thing God ever made - e.g. the entire US population.
Have some self-confidence, but have some actual ACHIEVEMENTS (sorry Americans) to base it on. Get your shit together, set goals, and invest a shit ton of time - ALL of your time - to achieving them before you take your first well-earned break. ANYONE can do this, including normal Joes.
>>769231731
not him but there are way more dumb people than smart people so its no surprise that there are alot of people who will argue against that kind of thing without even thinking about it
fuck off Petey
>>769231613
I think we'd be worse if there were less people. Remember, half the amount of people is half the amount of great people, like scientists and engineers, so half the amount of amazing inventions.
And no, killing dumb people only is not the solution, the support structure of those "dumb people" is needed for the scientist to work optimally.
It's all a tradeoff, and I think we are still good (in the inventions/year vs. environmental pressure we put on our home)
The licence for children thing: that's basically what "culture" is for. Those rules were created so all the new people that come into existence don't fuck up too badly.
>>769231813
The irony where only smart people can understand that the world needs more people smarter than themselves.
>>769231561
>I'm literally telling you what I meant with what I said.
And as I've already told you, what you claim to have meant to say and what you actually said aren't necessarily the same. If you want to admit that your original statement was wrong, you're free to do so.
>What you read into it was "you simply misinterpreted Peterson! That isn't what he meant!"
That's what I read into your response, which is accurate as you have now verified with this very post.
> The evidence that IQ directly correlates to reasoning is not a mistake.
Correlation does not imply causation. Someone with a higher IQ being more likely to have better reasoning does not mean that someone with a higher IQ actually has better reasoning. Very smart people can and do say some profoundly stupid things.
>>769231676
No, he wouldn't even know about your painting in the "$1000" case. He, by definition, would rather have the painting than the money.
>>769231848
no no yeah totally, that was basically the conclusion i came to. it basically boiled down to: only <1% of the world actually matter in the scheme of things, but at the same time most people have a job, and that keeps the wheel turning, so if it wasnt for all those other dickheads, the guys at the top wouldnt have the space to do their thing.
>>769231411
I'm not saying you can be anything you want, I'm saying that if you aim as high as possible and put the work in, you can be happy doing something you enjoy, and find success. Of course if you have a low IQ, you probably won't become a lead engineer or anything like that, but maybe you help design heat shielding and you're able to see your contributions go twords something you love. If that doesn't make you happy, do something that does. The point is, at 100 IQ, which is just about the average, you can do a lot. You can get a college degree, and get a majority of the jobs offered and make a decent life for yourself. Having someone be born smarter than you doesn't mean that you should be owed something for being less intelligent, and it doesn't mean you should be sad because of your envy of others. Make your own life, and don't be a child looking to suck from the tit of the government because your feelings were hurt when Jimmy became a pro ball player and you are still working at McDonalds and smoking weed.
>>769231479
As I understood, in his definition God is basically "all the other people". With all the transcendent reality shit layered on top of that.
>>769228300
Oh, please feel free to rewire your electricity, fix your own plumbing and restructure your house when you need to. Im sure all of that will be easy. Fuck off m8. If you can't recognize the importance of these people then you must think a bit too highly of yourself.
>>769231895
Just because he doesn't know doesn't magically change the scenario, my whole point is; if he had known he would have come to me and got the painting at its original price, instead of 200% price
dont forget this is just 1 scenario, imagine spending 200% on everything, you wouldnt stay rich for long
>>769231294
Not true. The poor are far better off now than before. Economics isn't a zero sum game.
>>769231695
People are too focused on IQ in my opinion.
You can have an IQ and still be a horrible person. A high IQ does not justify the decision a person makes.
>>769231731
If you can comprehend philosophy and science someone wouldnt throw out bullshit like >>769226041 did
Its a black and white tihnking to categorize people in stupid or not stupid. I mean where do you draw the line? if you were supposed to pick out the stupid and smart ones? this whole thought leads to nowhere. Its not practically useable. The last time someone thought its possible was hitler. And he killed of alot of Educated and Smart people in concentration camps.
>>769232026
but the gap between the top and the bottom has only gotten larger, you're right, economics is very complicated and its not black and white, you could look at things a thousand different ways and get a thousand different conclusions in return
>>769231426
And a far smaller proportion of them have shit lives.
>>769231695
Well, from what you've written so far, I don't think any woman would actually want you, so at least you're taking responsibility for your shit opinion and removing your genetics from the world for us.
>>769231935
>>769231778
>Set goals
The goals above average/exceptional people are going to be able to achieve are a lot different than what the average joe can achieve. For example, Peterson made his goal to be a University professor who's taught at Harvard, and he achieved that goal. The average joe, though, might only be able to achieve a goal such as passing a math exam or becoming a plumber. And then you wonder why mediocre people feel useless.
>>769232087
>>769226109
Hey, I get it!
>>769232077
why do you care if richer people have more money compared to you, if you also have more stuff.
>>769231582
Consider this:
You produce a painting. You try to sell it for $1000 but nobody gives a shit about what you paint because globalism has blown open the international art scene and there are a million people more talented than you. You put it on Etsy for $100 and nobody buys it for months. You want to go to art school to get better but your minimum wage job barely pays the bills so you will have to take a second job to pay the tuition off over the next 20 years. The top painters sell their paintings for millions of dollars and millions of prints are made and shipped around the world by multinational corporations. Hopefully they will hire you when you graduate so you can finally have a chance to contribute using the skills you have in the industry otherwise you'll be back at square one.
>>769232182
i mean i dont care i was just stating the facts
>>769232144
A smaller proportion of people have shit lives now than they used to, so things are much better now than they used to be. Absolute numbers don't mean shit, they just reflect population.
>>769232077
The gap is what you aim for. I'm sure you've heard, most 1% move in and out of the 1%. You can work your way to riches, while the poor are living better and better lives. Just because you only make 40,000 a year, and your boss makes 4,000,000 a year, doesn't mean you are being wronged, it means your boss did something right. Go do something right as well. Generate value, become rich. Most rich people weren't born rich, and you can do it too if you stop whining on the internet about being not as rich as that other guy.
>>769232006
Ugh, I wasn't clear enough in the example to not be too dry, but I'll try again.
Let there be scenario 1:
- Allan has a painting. He know shit about sales, so he sells it to Dick for $1000
End result: Now Allan has $1000, and Dick has a painting he does not really care about
Scenario 2:
- Allan has a painting. His friend, Charles comes along and buys it for $1500
- Charles ask Dick how much he would pay for the painting, Dick says $1000
- Charles, being a superior salesman, know a guy named Joe, who loves painting and ask how much he would pay: $2000. Charles sells the painting to Joe
End result: Allan has $1500, Charles has $500, Joe has a painting he loves, and Dick has his money.
The painting got to a place where it's most loved. Allan got $500 more. Charles got $500. Dick got jackshit, but it's okay,, he later bought something else. Joe was happy to pay $2000 for a painting he wouldn't otherwise known about (that's why he's friends with Charles).
Who lost? It's very simplistic to say Joe.
>>769232120
Maybe we, as a society should work on plumbers not feeling useless.
>>769232306
right but if the numbers reflect population, so if 20% of the population are homeless, and then population doubles, you've got twice the amount of homeless, unles you can prove that, in the time that our population last doubled, everything negative about humanity halved and then some, you're automatically sounding not correct
>>769232379
you missed the point, "losers" in economic terms doesn't mean that you're homeless and licking up piss, it just means that, to make the space for profit, someone has to get ripped off. examples are sweatshops paying pennies, for products that take 10 quid to make, and then selling it to low iq schmucks for 200 quid, all of those people relatively might have perfectly average lives, but they're playing into someone elses hands in these scenarios
>>769232393
to be honest i didnt read this, your first scenario was pretty weak already so im assuming the damage control scenario is gonna be worse or way more contrived
>>769232217
Consider this: You're the average person a few hundred years ago. you die as an infant. Or you're the average adult who barely has enough food to survive and is owned by your landlord. You would be in a much worse situation in the past.
>>769232217
MAybe the painting was not an ideal example. Should've been something like "a chair", or a service like fixing TVs.
>>769232559
No it's the same scenario reworded.
>>769232622
alright sir give me a moment
>>769232510
Or just promote selective breeding, encourage sterility for everyone with, let's say, an IQ under 120. Give it a couple generations and everyone will be at the level of at least graduating university (average IQ of university graduates is 120).
>>769232622
yeah it was pretty bad and didnt really change anything or adress anything i or anyone else said in response
>>769224025
Oh this is one of the:
IDIOTS OF THE DARKWEB
>>769232696
That's because there were three responses:
>ad hominem
>some sarcastic remark about todays art-economy
>"the guy who paid $2000, he literally paid double the initial price for it"
I only tried to answer the third one. Also, there's no such thing as "initial price".
>>769232696
Or if the actual problem was the "if he had known" comment, well, by definition the 2x price guy wouldn't have known. That's the point. That's why sales guys get paid.
>>769232844
the sellers price is the initial price, which is 1k.
as soon as that is established, other than the person flipping the painting for profit, anyone involved in the transaction is an economic "loser". you could even argue the initial salesman lost out since he could have obviously marked up the initial price
>>769232927
him knowing or not knowing doesnt change the numerical data
>Delusional people telling themselves and others that one can achieve anything through hard work because coping
Jesus
>>769232559
A double population does not necessarily mean the double amount of homeless people if in the time of population growth the government edicts policies like social wellfare and things like that. You'r beeing very vague with such a statement. I understand you see everything in pure mathematics, but you forget the human factor.
2nd topic about losers. does someone else have to get ripped of? on what do you base your statement? There has been many thought experiements on how an Utopian society might actually work. But what does it need to get there? the will and the believe that it is possible. If you have people who all are naysayers its not possible we are not so different from the people back then who killed galileo because of the bullshit they thought he spreaded.
>>769232393
Let me try this again, I wasn't clear enough the first two times but I'll try again.
Scenario 1:
Allan has a painting. He trades his painting to Dick for a glockenspiel.
End result: Now Allan has a glockenspiel and Dick has a painting of dickbutt.
Scenario 2:
Allan has a painting. His friend, Charles comes along and fucks Allan's wife, Beth. Allan finds out and goes through a rough separation with his wife. In the separation agreement, Allan is forced to part with his painting in the division of assets.
End result: Now Allan has depression. Charles now has syphilis. Beth now has a painting and a glockenspiel.
>>769232559
The reason those people are losing is because they aren't building skills that increase their value. If they are workkng in a sweat shop, they either live in a third world country or are living in another country illegally. When I talk about climbing the ladder, I'm reffering to people who live in modern, powerful countries. China and India not being included. China because they're basically communist, only having been able to increase their people's lives through capitalism, and India because basically everywhere but their major cities is in the iron age.
If a person is living a perfectly average life, and they have their options open to climbing the ladder and doing better, then the only thing being hurt is your feelings. The owners of the product being sold can do whatever they want with the proceeds of what they sell. If it only takes 3 people to generate 10m in sales, then why hire anyone else? But, if it takes 100 people to generate 1b in sales, hire the people you need, pay them for what they did (10 an hour and pushing a button over and over again) and rake in the profits for the revolutionary new product that you invented, invested time and money into and sold. athat money doesn't belong to the workers, they are owed what they agreed to, and thinking that a company owner is in the wrong for keeping the reat is ridiculous.
>>769232120
>Peterson made his goal to be a University professor who's taught at Harvard, and he achieved that goal. The average joe, though, might only be able to achieve a goal such as passing a math exam or becoming a plumber. And then you wonder why mediocre people feel useless.
Then you will NEVER achieve anything. You don't think guys like Peterson can feel inadequate too? How about all those guys who ALMOST won a Nobel Prize? They could whine and be defeatist like you, throw in the towel. But they don't because that's not their character. They try and try again, regardless of what others think, regardless of where they rank in the pecking order. That attitude is precisely how they got to be a contender for the Nobel Prize in the first place. There will ALWAYS be someone better than them in the world, always someone faster, smarter, stronger. But if people gave up simply because of that fact, then no one would try to achieve anything ever. And where would that leave the world?
>>769232976
The seller might have been willing to sell it for $10 material price, and the most he could get by his own was $1000, so even 1x price guy would be "100x cheated".
>>769232976
Not in a theorethical economic perfect knowledge scenario. But in the real world, knowledge and connections are not free. (and not in the exploitation sense, but maintaining connections is hard).
Thankfully, it became way cheaper to let people know about your products and services nowadays, thanks to all the online services, but you have to realize there's always going to be a middle-man, and this middle-man actually has added value.
>>769233038
noice
>>769233094
The difference between nobel prize winners and people who nearly won a nobel prize compared to the difference between nobel prize winners and your average working-class factory work is HUGE.
>>769233267
factory worker*
>>769233094
There's no point in even trying if you can't be the best, good sir.
No one wants to be a second-class human.
>>769233029
no yeah totally, i was leaving out the human factor because its hard to measure and throws a big doggy doo doo in the works, it does have to be considered though i just anticipated we both understood that (which we do) so there wasnt a real need to clarify.
your second paragraph was hard to read and i dunno what you're asking really so all i can say is that in terms of economics, a loser doesnt neccisarily mean someone getting ripped off or whatever, see the painting scenario some cunt posted earlier, if you cba to look basically;
>i sell painting for 1k
>anon buys it
>sells for 2k to anon2
anon2 and technically myself is the "loser" in this scenario, but it may not be a rip off, disregarding that the value of paintings is subjective as hell, but it might have been worth 2k in the first place, so you could then argue anon2 is totally clean. theres alot of cogs and then alot of different ways to look at things, economics is basically the most complicated shit, and thats before you then add in that human element we mentioned
>>769233383
Don't worry about that, only naggers are second-class
>>769233395
>Not in a theorethical economic perfect knowledge scenario >>769233232
>>769233059
you basically just agreed with me so i dunno really
>>769233232
actually there isnt always a middle man but i get what you're saying its not wrong totally (2nd statement) like i said >>769233395 the human element and all the different perspectives mean that alot of different viewpoints on economic functions can be correct in their own sphere, its just that there are certain recurring themes that show up, one of them being the greater fool or loser
>>769224336
Whatever your background may be the bottom line is still the same, which is exactly that, to make to best of it.
Of course it seems easier from a more fortunate situation, but when people complain that "it's easy for you to say" they're just avoiding the point. In fact in some ways the unfortunate have a huge advantage over the more well-off people, which is that they're already on the bottom. If you always had security and what you needed to live at least a decent life, you won't be as ready or daring to put in the effort or take risks. When you're already down, you know how it is, you have nothing to lose and your struggles motivate you more than anything, you either succeed or die.
Furthermore, life isn't fair. It deals it's cards randomly, you get what you get. Point fingers all you want or say how easy it is for other people, it won't change anything. You are where you are, so it's your choice whether you bitch about it or suck it up and claw your way to success.
Of course it's easy to say, but it's also the truth, no matter how difficult.
>>769233626
Then you agree that people need to shut up and work harder? Because when it's not the fault of the employer that people aren't making more money, the only person you can blame is the one conplaining.
>>769232976
the point of capitalism and the free market is not for everyone to spend the least amount possible, but to distribute goods efficiently, i.e. to produce the maximal amount of happiness with a fixed amount of goods. and there don't have to be losers in an exchange. even if there sometimes are, because people are dicks
>>769233708
before anyone invokes the retarded SMBC thought experiment about this the free market also takes care about producing the maximal amount of this stuff concurrently. (and solves the "super happy guy takes everything" problem)
>>769233703
"yes", dont know why you replied to me honestly, its got nothing to do with what i was saying
>>769233708
again i think you're getting hung up on the definition of loser in this case, i agree that the intentions of capitalism are as you say, but THE ECONOMY is pretty big, especially now with the internet, so you cant just have a plan for the economy and then act on it. its like evolution i suppose, like you can observe it and notice patterns and shit, but to actually control it isnt really feasable. Sorry to say but there does have to be a loser, just keep in mind "loser" doesnt mean OH FUCK I LOST, i just means that some angle was played
>>769233267
You missed the principle. Which is why you will never even win a participation ribbon in a spelling bee. But sure, I'll agree with you. Because 99.99% of humanity will never be Nobel winners, goal setting is useless for them and they should just do nothing ever.
>>769233395
If I fart in a can and sell it for $1 to my friend Billy and he takes a whiff and he farts in the can and sells it back to me for $2 did Billy get $1 and a free fart?
>>769233888
The problem i see with current capitalism and coorperatism is exactly this fact that companies do not distribute efficently anymore. More or less they use Psychological tricks in advertisement etc... to manipulate people into buying things they dont need. That is something far different from efficient. If we wouldnt produce so much useless stuff, the other more usefull stuff would be actually cheaper because we would have alot more resources available.
>>769228537
I'm curious as to why he doesn't break down metaphors in other fiction, then. Is it that he's afraid to admit the bible isn't on par with the metaphors in other fiction? Is there something, dare I say, divine about the bible? Seems like it's not just the metaphors he's interested in, or else he'd be able to admit that the morals in the bible are man-made and don't require the belief in a 2000 year old deity.
>>769233960
well if me and you both have 50 chocolate bars for 1 quid each, and i have 1 quid, between the two of us we can both buy eachothers 50 bars one at a time, but that doesnt give us 100 profit
i didnt really know what you were looking for so i thought this would satisfy
>>769234103
well i mean, it sort of goes back to earlier i was talking to someone about how for the top 1% to function the 99% have to dick around doing whatever job they do just to sort of keep the world turning, but i mean you're right in saying that shit has got out of hand like with all the manipulation, but at the same time its always been happening, people have been selling totally worthles products for centuries, its just that we're more aware of it now because 1. information era and 2. its way worse now
>>769234103
Turns out, defining "useful" or "useless" is not easy to do. But you have a valid argument about the need for enforced rules to keep the market free and efficient (like making these tricks you mentioned illegal)
>>769226272
This tbh
>>769234210
He does. He also broke down some fundamental Buddhist beliefs. He also regularly breaks down pop culture things like comics, disney movies, Harry Potter. Go see the maps of meaning series, it's not really biblical. In fact the biblical series is relatively new from him.
Don't forget that he has hundreds of hours of lectures on youtube. He might focus on some thing right now (or maybe not, maybe it's jsut false reporting by the media), he certainly does not only do that.
>>769226272
>Also, he's religious so definitely sub 120.
You've just proven that smart people can be stupid - and no, I'm not insulting the other guy.
>Implying all the advice about "working hard" isn't just for the sake of keeping the slaves in their positions, while the Man bathes in riches
>>769224025
>here's OP, a collosal faggot, born into a world of freedom and prosperity, telling you that the world is a zero-sum game and someone elses success must be someone elses failure
>>769224025
Is that Negan?
Work is a trap.
>>769234529
>telling you that the world is a zero-sum game
>Implying it isn't
>>769234500
Great communist propaganda there m8.You might want to pay attention to the world though and realize that "The Man" does not exist, or at least not in a "totally undeserving exploitor" sense.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to do the things 80% of the rich people do, like managing huge amounts of money, people, or have universally appreciated talents, etc. If you would be, well, good managers are in demand, but don't be surprised when you fail the interview.
>>769234637
I can make 5 things a day. You can make 5 things a day. Together we can make 20 things a day.
WTF, where did the +10 come from? We must have stolen it, because hurr durr zerosum.
>>769234637
I'm pretty sure you find the computer you are typing on valuable. Sure, matter is finite, but value is created and shared, thanks to people who don't sit around and complain.
>>769224336
>JP
>A genetic lottery winner
Yeah, no. The guy suffers from depression and anxiety - he was on anti-depressants and a strong advocate of anti-depressants long before he became famous. He struggled with his own depression and mind for years.
Just because you are successful or rich doesn't make you any less suseptible to mental illness - in fact, it's usually the poor people with low IQ's that tend to be the happiest because they aren't sitting there contemplating the world around them and seeing the pointlessness of it all, they are instead at home watching reality TV worrying about what the Kardashians are doing and what Brad said about them at work and why the new employee Karen has to be such a slut.
When you possess an IQ over 100, which as much as I hate the majority of faggots here, most of you do have higher IQ's, your lack of success actually internally corrupts you. Dumb people don't possess that mental capability on the same level.
Also we are all born with different privileges and genetic privileges. JP's entire thing is to get you to recollect yourself and self build instead of overthinking yourself into corruption.
>>769234793
to be fair you didnt really prove him wrong there because it is known that groups of people are greater than the sum of their parts, so saying
5 + 5 = 10, but (5+5) = 20 wtf???
doesn't really make sense considering you can predict that putting the two 5's together will also double it / 2(5+5) / <- for visualisation and consistancy
>>769234866
nice dubs,
exactly what I was trying to say here but was too lazy to go into your level of detail.
>>769228253
>>769234271
ye manipulation always happened to some degree, but never with that perfection as it is nowadays with studies about how the human mind works, pretty much every information out there about how you can manipulate people for your own favor, how to create products to make them appealing, how to advertise them to make people rememebr jingles and shit, how to create artificial hypes. Its fucked up. Its not 1 thing its so many completely little things we keep beeing exposed to, up until a point where you just fall for some advertisment. Its like we consumed so much because of our greed that this greed starts to consume us now.
Here's me a 142 iq hero turning full chad as of late.
Go to the gym, take care of yourself, go partying.
Work hard play hard motherfuckers.
>>769224025
>>769235136
Meh, still better than 100 years ago, when literal snake oil salesmen were selling literal cocaine. Those people also knew how to sell something of no value by manipulating people. That art is milennia old.
>>769234735
No exploiter is deserving.
Just because someone had the ability to achieve success through someone's exploitation, that does not free him of his sin.
You sound kinda like those idiots who actually think "Might makes right", honestly.
>>769235212
zozzle.
>>769235136
aye, like i said its a big machine and its only getting bigger, i mean citation needed but i heard once that gaben and other advertisers like apple or whatever literally hire psychologists for consultation on how to literally brainwash people into buying their product, its real dirty but "it works" so you cant totally fault it
[spoiler]if im being honest it doesnt really work, its just that capitalism plays off of humanity's greatest weakness, and your average dickhead will give in to their weaknesses often, so its no surprise capitalism will naturally appear. We are at the point where we can notice these things and act around them, but for obvious reasons there are some people who like capitalism.[/spoiler]
>>769235212
Couldn't help reading that in a Kermit voice. Kek
>>769235249
well i mean smartphones and vapes and shit are about just as harmful as cocaine, and theres like a million million more products these days which also have their negatives, so its not so different
>>769235309
Perhaps most people's success have nothing to do with exploitation? Not even most rich people's?
>>769235212
Is this a quote by our lord genious? Because it sounds like a quote from him.
>>769235136
"Ball-less, soul-less, spiritless bitches, suckers of Satan's cock each and every one of them."
>>769227228
Do you stand up straight and make your bed?
>>769235449
No, but it's pure gold, because anon made it sound EXACTLY like him.
>>769227228
>Quite the contrary. I understand his arguments and while pretentious, there are many logical fallacies. Also everything does not need to be a Jungian, Olympian or biblical metaphor. The dude is way more pretentious than smart.
this whole post screams "way more pretentious than smart" mate
BUMP LIMIT REACHED
>>769235845
abandoning thread, was fun, thanks for everyone discussing with me, the wannabe economics expert
>>769227197
> I was simply pointing out that he is a genetic lottery winner who had a privileged upbringing and now he is trying to lecture people less fortunate than him, telling them that it's their fault for being unhappy.
...and now you're telling him it's his fault for winning the lottery. That's what we would all wish for. now you've accepted he's smart, why not listen to his advice? Also you're blaming him for telling the truth. What do you want him to do, lie?
>>769228405
164 I believe. Which is pretty incredible. I’ve been tested by a phsyciatrist in the area of 139-145 and I’ve always been the smart kid in school. My dad is a MD and he even says I’m smarter than him.
I understand Jordan and agree with almost of all what he says, but it amazes me that his IQ is so much higher. It makes me feel inferior that there are people out there like him and there is nothing I can do to compete intellectually.
