Why do you support murder /b/?
There is, in the sciences, essentially no debate that human life begins at conception... any other later dividing line is essentially arbitrary as precise developmental dates are not known and vary from person to person anyway
Validity outside the womb is variable across time and places. or are you suggesting a child born in the 50's became alive , later in its development than do children now.
Consciousness is not the same a life, if you in a vegetative state you are still alive, it is illegal for someone to kill you...furthermore , if the patient is guaranteed to wake up in a few months even the parents or next of kin wouldnt be alive turn off life support.
Nobody, of any gender, gets an absolute choice in everything they want to do, particularly in the case of the termination of life in nonessential circumstances (as in the case of 97+% of abortions)... that's basic social contractarianism.
Men and women choose to have sex and choose to accept the risk of pregnancy... isn't backing out of this responsibility childish sophistry?
Why not say that except in cases of imminent, serious danger to the life of the woman ...we shouldn't be killing the babies.
>>768677845
/b/ supports murder because it's fun.
I’m not pro choice. I’m anti person.
>>768677845
Because there are too many people already. A child that isn't fully wanted shouldn't be dragged into this world only to be neglected and ignored until it's grown and then just becomes another asshole unwanted by society.
>>768677845
Why do you support the notion that a woman's body shouldn't belong to her for nine months (sometimes never depending on which shithead you ask)?
>>768677922
this
>>768678050
Inorite. Have these people even met people?!? Its gotta be a strong 70% of them that suck donkey dick.
>>768677845
Life doesn't begin at conception. Eggs and sperm are alive. Having your period is murder and masturbation (for a dude) is genocide.
>>768677845
It's not that I support it, I just don't fucking care.
This earth is too crowded as it is. I don't lose any sleep over people of any age dying. I think more need to. Especially in the 3rd world.
We need a massive war or plague to reduce the number of poor shitskins sucking our resources dry while they pump out more and more mouths to feed.
>>768678003
because as I said, nobody has the absolute freedom to do whatever they want.
especially when it comes to terminating human life. which is murder.
>>768677845
That's not a person, therefore it is not murder.
Even if it were a person and writing poetry, he woman's body COMES FIRST. ALWAYS.
>>768677845
>if you in a vegetative state you are still alive, it is illegal for someone to kill you
Not if they have medical proxy you nigger.
>>768678193
>nobody has the absolute freedom to do whatever they want.
When it comes to my body? I absolutely fucking do. Go fuck yourself.
>>768678186
eggs and sperm are developmental dead ends, they cannot progress further than this state without fertilization, they do not possess the necessary genetic code...
Sometimes murder and self defense are just two words for the same thing. Its all perspective. Can you prove, I mean really prove that life has value? Maybe the while basis of the arguement murder=bad is flawed
>>768678312
of course you dont dont be silly. can i do whatever i want with my body, even if it leads to the death of an individual living human being?
your desires don't determine reality
>>768678270
Where can I get that. All I have is medical vpn
I genuinely believe that murder is neutral, maybe even natural. Good and bad are just labels we make up to put on things. None of us have any idea what we are talking about.
But I support murder in all its forms. If you think the people of the US (even the most staunch pro-lifers) dont support murder then you are a fool. Hundreds of people are killed every day IN this country in every way imagneable. That doesn't count all the people we kill outside the country under the guise of "protecting our way of life" And you want to save a few babies that may or may not grow to be part of the fucking problem? Get outta here with that hypocritical bullshit. You want LIVE babies so you can grow them up to become DEAD soldiers advancing your corrupt idealism controlled by the everlasting pursuit of the almighty dollar.
>>768678377
no, murder and self defence are legally and morally distinct
laws need to be applied equally for society to function
>>768678187
malthusian thinking has been discredited over and over again
>>768677845
>human life begins at conception
Look at your passport and try to find the date of conception on it...guess what moron, you can't find it.
>>768678463
You calling a fetus a person doesn't make it reality.
>>768678270
wrong, you cant decide to terminate someones life if they are healthy
>>768678607
nor does calling a person a fetus, or a rose by any other name...
reality simply is.
>>768678552
Defending my body from this parisite that is going to threaten my way of life for 18 years and cost a dick load of money seems like self defense to me?
>>768678463
>your desires don't determine reality
Yet here you are trying to push your arbitrary desires in a world where murder is survival.
>>768678335
uh, so are humans then? A sperm is alive, an egg is alive they cant progress further so its ok to kill them? A human adult is alive, cant progress further so its ok to kill them then?
>>768678624
I think you mean shouldnt. Cause we totally fucking can.
You're using the definition of life which fits on plants. And you're correct. Plants are alive. Plants, however, have no rights nor duties. For that, you need a more specific definition of life. At that point, consciousness comes into place. Well that, or language, reason, ability to suffer in humanlike fashion, etc. Embryos lack all of those.
>>768678624
A vegetative state is a point that they are not healthy, as they aren't able to feed themselves and the primary source for nutrition is a feeding tube, which can be pulled.
>>768677845
>Begins at contraception
If aborting 2 stem cells in a pile is as bad as murder, wouldn't that make flushing your sperm down the toilet the same thing? They're half human, after all. They even move on their own for gods sake
I understand it's questionable if the fetus already resembles a human but a bunch of stem cells, c'mon
A majority of people who want abortions are niggers. Thats what niggers do best, kill other niggers.
The real question is, why do you love nigger cock so much?
>>768677845
The weak should fear the strong
>>768678685
wrong again, a parasite isnt the same species , much less the genetic offspring of as the host
>>768678715
hah, you see, i wish i was wrong, you think im happy that millions of people are being murdered in the womb.. it would be much easier to believe that that isnt so.. unfortunately, as i said, wanting something to be true doesnt make it true
>>768678751
you are saying that you could have a doctor kill someone if they are totally healthy?
>>768678788
oh for heavens sake, this is the most entry-level argument usually used by purple haired teenagers, sperm isnt the same thing as an individual human life. it does not posess a human genetic code, it will not, if left to its natural development, grow up to have stupid arguments online
>>768678187
Agree with this Anon
>>768678731
no, a human is a human a sperm is a sperm... on a genetic level they arent the same thing
>>768677845
I don't care! A dead human is as good as any other
>>768679015
>oh for heavens sake
What the fuck does that have to do with a vegetative state nigger, the brain doesn't just naturally develop back after extreme brain damage.
>>768677845
snowflake detected
>>768679015
No youre wrong. See how great this conversation can be if we just tell eachother that theyre wrong? Lets just post the word wrong 600 times and tag each other.
>>768679134
a fetus, embryo etc etc, isnt brain damaged and will wake up in a few weeks
>>768679148
no , snowflakes the people who get offended by science and believe they can be insultated from reality to save uncomfortable truths
>>768679160
so long as you follow up the word wrong with a justification then sure..
>>768679188
What the fuck are you going on about nigger? Can you even read, I didn't say shit about killing fetuses, only pointing out that you can pull feeding tubes from vegetables like that dumb terri schaivo cunt.
>>768679226
Wrong again snowflake
>>768679258
Wrong, I dont have to do that. You aint my father. You dont pay the bills in this house.
>>768679289
Wrong! Its not ok. I’m a degenerate.
>>768679325
i am , and i do
>>768677845
I simply support murder in any way, be it war, crime or abortion. However, I fully agree that abortion at any point is murder, so keep this train running.
Too be honest I used to be pro life but there’re just too many people in this world. As one guy here said we need a new plague or war.
>>768679370
Wrong, mah daddy dont troll on no 4chan
>>768679415
malthus has been widely discredited in many eras
>>768679482
im trying to teach you
>>768677979
anyone who says this is legitimately retarded there are to many people in africa and india not the us or europe
also "oh woe is me fuck the world abort me please" seriously how much of an emo dumb fuck do you have to be to say that
>>768679482
Wrong, it was only like a few eras. A handful at best.
>>768679469
if i say im your father then its true
>>768679518
Wrong, you are board between fap sessions and waiting for a fresh cuck and or trap thread to start up.
>>768679226
>>768679148
>"Snowflake"
It used to be white suburbs top of the line insult.
... for like a week.
Why are you 2 snowflakes still using it???
>>768679549
its pretty funny how triggered some people get from being told they are wrong
>>768678607
lol its a human you are literally trying to redefine human fuck off
>>768679588
Wrong. Obi wan told me the truth about my father already.
there have been no counter-arguments to op so far
>>768677845
Because until it has the mental capacity and thinking of a human being it's just a bunch of cells in the shape of one and no more worthy of life than any other barely concious organism.
IF WOMEN HAD ONLY ONE CHILD IN THEIR LIFE FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS THE POPULATION WOULD BE CUT IN HALF WITH NO MURDER, WARS, CONFLICT OF ANY KIND.
seriously look into it.
but why would we do that as a species when money rules our world. hard to make money with less and less people around
such bullshit..
i can't wait to go home...
>>768679629
Wrong. I’m not triggered. I’m just board between fap sessions and waiting for a fresh trap thread to start up.
>>768679705
thats literally the same as saying kill babys kill those in comas and kill retards just so you know what you are actually advocating
We should eat the aborted foetuses, with all the hunger in the world and shit
>>768679781
Good thing I agree with all of the above as well.
>>768679781
Yeah and?
>>768679705
mental capacity alters throughout one's life, it is never equal to human life..
>>768679689
what im telling you is true... from a certain point of view
>>768677845
>Killing unwanted fetuses are wrong because they are living
>Killing all these other living things for sport is okay though.
>>768677845
>Why do you support murder /b/?
Because murder is convenient. Both legal murder and illegal murder. Its just a matter of dealing with the consequences.
And don't even bother with that "life is pure" shit. We got people who think mountain dew goes in baby bottles, and people who think the sun is a hoax.
>>768679705
In fact, you or any human being is not more worthy. Nothing has any worth at all.
>>768679844
what?
>>768679842
He told me enough, he told me you killed him.
>>768679951
no i let him grow up. that would have been murder
>>768677845
Bottom line is, if a woman wants her baby dead, that baby is dead. She could drink a handle of vodka, swallow every pill in her house, jab at herself with a coat hanger, take a trip down the stairs, or any number of other home remedies. You aren't helping anyone by outlawing abortion, you're just making it totally unsafe for women who want one.
I once read a study that estimated underground clinics in Tehran were performing upwards of 3000 illegal abortions a month. Conditions in these clinics were such that something like 70 per cent of the women who used them developed serious infections afterwards. Many lost the ability to have children and about 10 per cent straight up died.
It's also illegal in Iran to have an abortion for any reason other than medical necessity. If they caught these women, they coils throw them in jail for up to five years. Assuming your neighbours don't murder you with stones of peace first.
These women were still lining up to get rid of unwanted pregnancies.
There's also the issue of bodily autonomy and not putting the rights of a potential person ahead of the rights of a right-now person.
>>768679844
Listen, I'm pro-choice, but comparing people to animals is fucking stupid.
>>768677845
The government cannot force a citizen to bring a pregnancy to term for the same reason the government cannot force a citizen to donate a kidney to a patient in dire need of a transplant.
Even if we were to concede that a fetus is a person (which science has clearly shown isn't the case), you would STILL lose the argument.
And that's why abortion will always be legal in civilized societies.
>>768680153
How so, are they not living as well?
>>768680153
Guess what a human is? A fucking animal. Dumbass.
Hilarious at anyone trying to contradict this argument....
Essentially thinking you are superb and the exception.
Your life could've been snuffed out before being born.
Yet because you are superior... you get to brag your God like delusions on a format like.../b
>>768680086
there is no such thing as bodily autonomy when it comes to murdering other people
the issues of Islamic repression of women and the scientific definition of when life begins are not related.
nor is this a gendered issue.. a lot of women dont believe in the right of a person to end another human life for convenience
i totally support abortion where there is a legitimate threat to the life of the mother.
>>768677845
>WE SHOULDN'T BE KILLING BABIES HURR
The argument is not that simple and I'm getting fucking sick of hearing you waterheaded brainlets bringing it up. Everyone in this shithole country is a fucking partisan. The fucking #maga cousin fuckers say it's the most vile, villainous transgression a woman can possibly commit, and the libtard cuckolds treat it as the most innocent and pure act a woman could possibly perform. Abortion is morally gray, folks. It's not so easily classified.
The reason most sensible, rational adults are pro-choice is because they understand a person's rights to their own bodies. If I have a rare blood type and someone needs my blood to stay alive, I cannot be COMPELLED to give it to them. Even if that person was the president, or my brother. Same thing goes with kidneys. I've got two working, healthy kidneys, and I'd wager a guess that almost all (if not all) of the people reading this post are in the same boat. Every day I choose not to donate a kidney, people die. Am I overcome by guilt? Are you? No, of course not. The same exact bullshit goes for abortion.
The vast majority of the pro-life crowd are no-sex conservative fuckwads who view pregnancies as a just punishment for a woman's sexual promiscuity. The punishment does not fit the crime, friend. So a woman gets raped, or has too many drinks and gets rawwed and then what? She has to drop out of college? Miss work? Potentially lose her job when she gets replaced during maternity leave? Spend the next 18 years of her life raising some kid she didn't want, probably by herself, just because you believe your personal morality is absolute? Or should she have the kid, dump him in an extremely overburdened foster care system so he could grow up in and out of juvenile centers, orphanages, and eventually prison?
>>768680086
whats your point? they get bad consequences for murder ohh no the murderer died oh no she no longer has the ability to have kids serves her right she didn't want them in the first place
>>768680305
Pregnancy is a threat to the mother, you literal fucking retard.
>>768679451
Did anyone told him about typing "liveleak abortion" into the search field?
>>768680305
>there is no such thing as bodily autonomy when murdering other people
You gonna get out there and donate a lung then, you fucking dipshit?
>>768679451
I've literally seen a girl have an abortion. She swallowed a pill and pretty much got a heavy period. It wasn't that scary dude. Fuck out of here.
>>768680176
your kidney is not a separate living human being..
please indicate the scientific research that indicates that a fetus isnt human or alive..
you dont win or lose an argument just by declaring it
>>768680395
nope now go be stupid somewhere else
>>768677922
I'm pro-abortion. There are too many fucking people on this planet already. If some woman thinks she is unfit to raise a child, she's probably right.
>>768680429
they cant because there is none
>>768678312
So if I want to stick a piece of my body into your body then you can't stop me because I can do whatever the fuck I want with my body, right faggot?
>>768679761
>board
I'm board too
>>768680395
Hey you fucking retard.
A mother is conscious of risk and aware of heart decisions.
Stop!
Your brain cells are getting aborted as you read this.
>>768678186
This. Life is not created at conception, it is merely passed along.
>>768680319
And half the time people back down with their arguments when someone was raped. Oh a human life is really important but suddenly it isn't when you're talking about rape? No clearly its about archaic punishment from an older sect of societal values that thinks sex is deviant and people deserve to be punished for it.
>>768680584
so at what point did you become alive and not simply the extension of your parents?
>>768678526
Get a load of this commie faggot. Fuck out of here with ur Live Babies quote u fucking faggot. Stop reading Marxist shit on social media.
>>768680607
97% of the time woman is asking to be raped. Look how they act and dress.
Essentially the fault of women. Why they abort after trying to look cute to get raped?
>>768680395
>pregnancy is dangerous
>"no it isn't dumbass"
It is actually. Maybe go to medical school, or literally crack open a book about basic science.
>>768680505
careful bud, thats close to logic
>>768680824
pic related
What do pro life people think of the morning after pill?
>>768677845
Because no Life is better than a shit Life to begin with!
A Mom that never Love his Child will never raise a proper Child if you endure your whole Life the Fact that your Mom never wanted you or loved you or even be able to feed you how are you supposed to have any good moment in Life its a Prevention of Pain and Suffering...You Moron
>>768680840
lol keep bullshitting "but but the .001%"
that shit doesnt work here
>>768680683
not him but your parents are the vehicles to bring another piece of soul into this reality. eventually we will all return to that oneness.
>>768680607
>giving birth is punishment
This is what commie millenials actually believe. No wonder the west is in decline while 3rd world shitskins are having large families and changing our society for the worse.
>>768677845
Let me ask you this, who is going to pay for the care of all these unwanted children? The taxpayers? Or will these unwanted children die anyway because they don't have food, housing, or medical care?
>>768680506
Wrong. I’m board. You’re a log.
>>768680505
That violates the freedom of the other person's body, but you already knew that and are just coughing up garbage arguments .
>>768680607
yeah if life is so precious, why would it matter if it started from "rape"? Thats not the baby's in any way. Does the child of a rapist have less right to live?
JESUS SAVES
>>768678873
>>768680824
wow, it's amazing to see someone this retarded functioning on this board
>>768680963
He passes to Moses, he shoots, he scores!!!!!
>>768680963
the child would also be a rapist jesus has nothing to do with this go look at charles darwins On the Origin of Species
>>768677845
OP should have been in that bowl
>>768677845
Conscienceness is absolutely not started at conception you nit wit religious nutfuck.
>>768680864
So then he can stick it in you and you can't do anything about it. I'm okay with that.
>>768678187
If anything we need more of a population problem to advance the human race. Our answer to the population problem should be to explore space and colonize other planets, not to murder other humans. If we grow content because we have our own space, why would we ever care to colonize other planets and risk almost certain death in early space missions if there wasn't some huge gain? Population problem is one such huge gain to fix. Some others might be if Earth actually runs out of important resources, but if that happens, we more likely risk extinction. So if anything abortion hurts our species because by killing, we reduce population, grow content, and never colonize other planets, then when Earth dies our species dies.
>>768677845
>>768680884
It's true. They try attract the ideal mate but fail to realize they still teasing the rest...leaving most men with veiny bulging hard ons.
Men knowing women are weaker prettymuch says fuck this cock teasing bitch.
That's how rape happens
>>768680153
Put a knife into a pig and into a human kid and you can observe the same fucking things...blood, panic, fear, screams, muscle spasms, tears, loose of strength, shallow breathing, death, decay and they both also turn into the same fucking thing. But of course acknowledging a enslaved life form as equal would put human history into a inconvenient spot.
>>768680192
>>768680258
Non-sapient, mobile food piles are not remotely analogous to humans. Cry harder hippies.
>>768680192
Dont cut the grass or eat the salad. Its alive, man
>>768681032
Is 4chan your holy grail of intelligent arguement?
>>768681176
how to devalue human life 101
>>768680824
That would be true...if they would look and act like that for you...shame that they want a good looking Person so pls Take your Inferior Australopithecus Brain whos shutting down when ever it sees some Skin and throw it out the Window thx
>>768681130
im not religious. I never mentioned religion
consciousness isnt the defining standard of human life.. it isnt fixed and alterations to the consciousness of people do not compromise their legal protection
>>768680960
>That violates the freedom of the other person's body,
Exactly faggot. Now apply that to women who murder babies and you might just get it slowpoke.
>>768681335
Says the guy who asks permission to duck a girl.....
Get your Austrafuckyoufaggot beta ass outta here
Faggot
>>768681311
Bro. You are literally valuing sperm as human life right now. How do you even function?
>>768681165
There are no other planets to colonize you complete fucking retard. Colonizing Mars is a moronic wasteful crapshoot and traveling the distances to reach any other star system won't be possible for hundreds/thousands of years, if ever.
science fiction isn't the answer you total imbecile.
>>768681428
You clearly are a religious nutfuck otherwise you'd be pro choice. This isn't murder, you are just an idiot who should never procreate.
>>768681204
>pigs are the same as humans
No, faggot. We don't eat children.
>>768681577
no, that the pro choice argument
a sperm does not have the developmental capacity or genetic code of a human life
a sperm cell is ethically and scientifically more comparable to a man's hand or foot, but even the hand and foot have a full genetic code
>>768681577
no one said anything about sperm shitdick
>>768680305
The fact that some women are anti-abortion does not make this not a gendered issue, but that is not the issue here.
The point I was making about the women in Tehran was that even in those life threatening circumstances, women who want abortions are getting them. All you are doing by making them illegal is further burdening society with people in prison, people who now need other medical care and children who are disabled because their mothers attempted home abortions that didn't take. Not to mention the fact that these women who die or go to jail might already have children and those children are now without a mother.
Also, society absolutely considers bodily autonomy when talking about murder. One of the first things considered when a murder takes place is if there was some mitigating circumstance that justified you disregarding another person's autonomy (ie killing them).
>>768681647
so a human life isn't a life because you say so and an atheist is religious because you say so.?
>>768681647
and what makes it not murder go on explain you are taking a human life you dont have to be religious to see that
>>768681204
>A thing also feels pain just like you.
>That thing is your equal and no other differences need be considered.
Dipshit.
>>768681661
>search google for "humans eat children"
>About 102.000.000 results
Clearly never happened.
>>768681538
Triggered Bohooo maybe your not that stupid ...at least you can read! The thing is Girls ask permission to Fuck me...You if you want Alpha Bag of wasted Brain-tissue...
>>768681779
It isn't alive. Just like killing an ant isn't murder you fucking moron.
>>768681897
>cannibals existed in history
>therefore pigs are human
kek
>>768681916
and how is it not alive you are just saying things that are blatantly false at this point with no proof reasoning or evidence also you are contradicting yourself there
>>768681729
the fact that some women want abortions has nothing to do with their ethical and scientific justification.
if a womans life is imminently and abnormally jeopardised then of course termination of pregnancy should be available. this would be self defense and triage
a woman who has cancer should be able to get treatment , even if that treatment kills the fetus, baby person etc etc
but in the u.k for example, 97% of abortions were carried out for "social reasons". not any kind of threat. it is the majority of instances of abortion that i am opposed to, not the extreme minority which are of course justified
>>768682023
No I am telling you that it has no feelings, no thoughts, no desires, no dislikes. You are essentially a failure if you can't grasp this basic concept. Simple basic concept. Killing a tree isn't murder. Killing a pig isn't murder. And then terminating something that isn't alive yet for sure isn't murder. Fucking dumb. Check mate mitherfucker.
>>768677845
Life begins a consciousness and the earliest that can be viably reported on is after birth as shown by babies having the ability to dream and learn
>>768682214
yes go kill a man in a coma try using that as your defense im suuuuuure that would go swimingly
>>768682259
thats not true, consciousness (and we still dont know what that is exactly) begins at consciousness..
biologically speaking an individual human life begins when a separate genetic code is possessed of a living body. this occurs at conception.
>>768682214
a human life is not always conscious and is not a tree
at any rate consciousness is poorly understood and there is no definite answer as to when it begins upon which to base a law
Even if it's murder, it's basically living off the woman, like a parasite. Therefore if she doesn't want to keep it alive, she doesn't have to.
>>768682442
Well if you can't think then are you truly alive?
I believe not.
>>768682373
It does!
>>768681709
The picture did. Anon's response did. I did. You seem to easily miss very obvious things.
>>768682619
you dont get to chose to murder someone.
thats the whole point, no one has that choice
a parasite is not the same species as the host , nor its genetic offspring.
you undertake the risk of pregnancy when you have sex, especially unprotected sex....
you cant just shirk that responsibility and murder, someone, because its convenient and you dont like the consequences of your actions
>>768681211
I said for sport, not for food nigger, try again.
>>768682798
OK.
A thing that has no rights is fun to shoot. I should be able to shoot it.
Happy?
>>768681277
Ah yes, but certain animals hunted for sport are far more intelligent than a fetus or even the orange president.
>>768682656
irrelevant, biologically speaking you are alive regardless of your ability to think.. legally if you are in a coma, i cant kill you, nor can your parents turn off your lifesupport if you are guaranteed to "wake up " in a few weeks... but thats a poor analogy as the unborn arent unhealthy ..
>>768677845
Let's look at this from an economic standpoint,
would the mother in question be able to give the child a happy and sustainable life or would it ultimately end in one side dead early or one heating another? If it is the later I would call abortion a mercy.
>>768682863
intelligence is irrelevant, what if I decided everyone with a sub 115 IQ wasn't conscious enough or healthy enough to be considered a full human life
abortion, aside from being wrong in and of itself, sets a terrible precedent
>>768683006
What precedent?
>>768682858
A fetus's rights go to the parent, they can kill it if they want(to an extent depending on jurisdiction) What's your point?
>>768681911
First and foremost. Thank you for acknowledging i'm smarter than you.
Second of all hurr hurr hurr girls asks to fuck my sophisticated mathematical pencil dick....hurr hurr.
Durfff durfff.
Fagitty durff.
>>768683006
At what point would you consider an animal to have rights. Animal abuse/neglect are considered illegal, because they have some rights.
>>768683053
removing legal protection from people based on their physical condition.
what if in 50 years people decide that newborns and the elderly aren't really alive either. what if someone's consciousness doesn't meet some future standard
if you are pro-choice.. when do you think there should be a cut off with regards abortion?
>>768677845
To many people on the earth already. Population control is a good thing, but kids should be thought safe sex so they don't have do abortions.
>>768677845
I was with my ex gf for 2 years and we broke a condom during sex. Sure enough we ended up needing to have an abortion.
Now that it has been a few years I can look back and say definitively getting that abortion was one of the best decisions of my life. If I'm ever in another similar situation I would have another abortion in a heartbeat.
>>768677979
t. unwanted child
>>768683403
it was convenient to you and you have decided that because it made things easier for you must be morally okay.
life is nasty and horrible and does not have to conform to what you want it to be
if it is raining outside, you wanting it to be sunny doesn't not make it so
thats just cowardice and dereliction of responsibility... you took a risk, lost out and then took it out on an innocent.
unless you have any scientific backing that suggests that an individual human life is not an individual human life
>>768683227
yes of course, i would never neglect or abuse an animal, i dont hunt or eat meat for that reason... im just against killing
>>768683721
ouch
>>768683721
I practiced safe sex and the condom broke. I didn't take any risk.
I'm glad I live in a place with safe and legal abortions. For the rest of my life I will always vote 100% to protect abortion because it's obviously the right thing to do.
>>768682791
The point im trying to make is that the baby depends on his/her mother to survive. So if the mother doesn't want to support the baby's life, so be it. Why should you force anyone to support an another life. You have the right to your own body, and have no responsibility to support something that is alive, with your body.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion
>>768684034
yes you did, everyone knows that condoms dont always work.. its a risk.. part of having sex and being an adult
you just didn't man up when it counted.
you will never be able to admit this because doing so means that you would have to acknowledge that you ended your childs life out of convenience... you dont sound like you have the balls for that
which is why you have no actual arguments in favor of what you do beyond that its what you want to do.... youre a child
>>768677845
The debate is not if "life" begins at conception, it's whether life matters without consciousness. It doesn't, because in the case of humans the consciousness the only valuable part. No brain, no consciousness. Same as pulling life support on a brain dead adult. There are only people that are smart enough to understand this and people who are not.
>>768684034
No, you reduced the risk. As long as a dick goes in the vag there’s a risk. Get a fucking clue and stop murdering your children.
>>768684192
when does a baby not depend on its mother to survive.
I've researched pro-choice, i used to agree with it.. but there are too many contradictions.. this is a life or death situation
>>768684325
no, human consciousness is not the only valuable part.. if you were in a coma or even completely brain dead you would still be protected by law...
more over your next of kin would absolutely not be able to terminate you if you were guaranteed to wake up in a few weeks.
you stopped short of finishing that following that trail of logic when you were 18 or so didnt you?
>>768684244
Says the person that's only argument is that "Life is worth protecting even if it lead to something miserable afterwords."
>>768677845
Let's do the math, say there was 652,639 abortions in 2014, say half was for medical reasons alone. 326,319, or 326,000 more births would have happened. The cost to put those K-12 would be $23,472,000,000($6k a year, 12 years, 326,000 kids). That isn't even including the cost of building more schools. And say a quarter being on medicaid, 81,500 births with an average cost of $2,000 means the government paid $163,000,000 just on birth. Just off one years of abortions.
>>768679015
A parasite is more alive than a fetus. Parasites can be removed from the host and kept alive. Zygotes cannot. Fetusus cannot until maybe 5 months after conception. Before that point they are a lower life form than a parasite. It’s not murder to remove something from my body that cannot survive on its own, because that thing is not alive.
Abortion is not murder, but simply the lawful eviction of someone from your property.
If a starving hobo comes to your house, you aren't obligated to feed him even though he might die if you don't.
>>768684572
life is worth protecting yes..
at this point i conclude you are trolling
>>768677845
If the kid can be removed and survive on it's own, OK. Otherwise, he goes. You anti-choice people are all for saving the child before it's born but don't give a shit after it's born.
>>768684244
>>768684378
I will have an abortion again if the need arises. It was honestly one of the best decisions of my life. Thinking that my gf should be forced to have a baby because of a broken condom is ridiculous. Abortion has been a massive positive for society.
>>768684595
so viability is the condition for humanity?
>>768684671
But why is it worth protecting?
>>768678685
>dickload
Pun intended?
>>768684564
I don't have to value life without consciousness just because you tell me I should. My "logic" is much less parochial than yours.
>>768684688
youre clearly trolling.
>>768679015
Please define totally healthy. If something is totally heathy it can survive on its own unassisted.
While your at it please define life and murder.
>>768684756
"my" logic is supported by science and legal consistency...
>>768684830
Abortion is legal, so is mine. /thread
>essentially no debate that human life begins at conception.
human experience doesn't properly begin until birth. You're not a true human until you breathe air and are born into this world.
Your argument is invalid.
>>768677845
Because I like murder... Fuck off
>>768677845
Population control or we all die!!!
More War! More Abortion! More Disease!
>>768684913
Nice semantics, faggot.
>>768679781
Only people in comas and retards are not relying on me to survive. Your argument is that if I don’t sacrifice my life so that a retard can stay alive then it’s the same as murmuring said retard.
>>768684775
If we hadn't had the abortion, both my gf and myself would have dropped out of college and we'd be living on food stamps, obamacare, and government housing.
Because we had the abortion we both graduated college and became self sufficient.
I'll say it again. Abortion is a massive benefit to society and I would do it again if I had to, without hesitation.
>>768680683
When I became aware of myself as an individual.
>>768684789
healthy as in not suffering from any pathology.
life as in possed of the qualities growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
murder as in the intentional termination of another human life (exceptions apply in rare cases)
>>768684913
slavery was legal, but legally inconsistent with more fundamental laws human rights as is abortion...
>>768684925
irrelevant, and not true, plenty of studies have shown that newborns prefer voices they would have heard while in the womb
>>768684775
Actually, that seems like a sound statement... How is that trolling?
>>768683070
I think you have the wrong guy friendo.
Im both pro choice and pro hunting.
>>768685119
that occurs age 2 or 3
>>768685219
because he is just spouting anecdotal crap.
>>768685203
>plenty of studies have shown that newborns prefer voices they would have heard while in the womb
Cite them.
>>768684564
When the baby's body is developed to the point that it can physically support it's own life (vital functions). Then abortion should not be an option. Im not talking about taking care of the baby like feeding it.
Im talking about it's body's vital functios necissary to support itself.
>>768681428
What is the definition standard of life?
>>768684564
>completely brain dead
You don't come back from that you nigger, quit trying to blend coma, vegetative state and brain death.
>>768685313
Hepper, PeterG. (1988). "Fetal 'soap' addiction". Lancet. 1 (8598): 1347–8
there are literally hundreds of studies into prenatal memory...
>>768677845
>Why not say that except in cases of imminent, serious danger to the life of the woman ...we shouldn't be killing the babies
This pretty much was the case, abortions were completely legal if the child had a high probability of; being handicapped, was the product of rape (real rape, not that next day regret bullshit), and/or a product of incest. Things didn't change until (((third wave feminism))) became a thing and (((people))) decided that women should be absolved of any mistakes they make and should be catered to at every opportunity. You might ask yourself why (((third wave feminism))) is in (((echo))) form. Pic related should clear that up for you.
I will say one thing, there are a LOT of mad roasties and beta orbiters ITT. Anyone, feel free to prove me wrong, but protip: you literally can't.
>>768685309
Then he is not trolling, he is just not stating any evidence.
Learn the difference between an idiot and a troll.
I honestly believe every pregnancy should end in abortion, abort all the fucking babies, nobody should be having children in the first place, having children is immoral and wrong
>>768685327
when does that occur?
be specific?
does that mean that a child who is premature and has to be placed in an incubator is not valid?
>>768685351
look in the thread, iv already clarified this
>>768682074
OP didn't ask about the ethics. He asked why we support it.
These are the reasons I support the right to a safe, legal abortion.
>>768683322
When the fetus can survive on its own without the mother.
>>768685473
i think he is doing it on purpose.. intentionally being dim (in a way i have a higher opinion of him than you, ).. ultimately neither of us can prove it either way.. its not important anyway
> come to 4chins to argue morals
Retard alert, OP is on the loose again
>>768685664
not a definite point and not specific to newborns
>>768680319
>The vast majority of the pro-life crowd are no-sex conservative fuckwads who view pregnancies as a just punishment for a woman's sexual promiscuity.
Ding ding. We finally have a winner.
>>768685240
Yeah. If someone had killed me when I was 3 I would not have given a fuck. I have no memory of that time. For all intent and purposes I wasn’t there. My life had no meaning to me. It meant something to my mom, so she took care of me. But if she didn’t, it wouldn’t be murder.
>>768685779
irrelevant. the question is when life begins.
>>768685787
.... i genuinely believe no one is as dumb as you seem
>>768682791
At least a parasite can survive on its own. A zygote can’t.
>>768682888
Do you not see the difference between me killing someone in a coma and me removing a non viable zygote that requires my life energy to survive?
>>768685859
I feel the same about you
>>768680607
Uh, who backs down when it comes to rape?
That's why my wife carrys a ruger
>>768685777
How is this not a definite point? How is conception a defineit point. You can’t tell the point at which anyone was conceived.
>>768677845
OP you just volunteered to have all the crying babies in front and behind you in any form of transportation all the fucking time.
>>768677845
>Why not say that except in cases of imminent, serious danger to the life of the woman ...we shouldn't be killing the babies.
Savita Halappanavar answered that question 6 years ago. When you're on a hospital bed with hours to live, you don't want government red tape to take weeks to go through.
Besides, legality only really becomes an issue when there is punishment. Do you punish the doctors? That'll just lead to women doing it themselves. Punish women? Better figure out a way to distinguish natural miscarriage from intentional abortion.
>>768680898
I'm against it. Wear a fucking condom or take birth control you fucking retards
im pro life but i wish i was aborted so fuck humanity fuck you fuck life
>>768685777
What he should have said is when the fetus is viable for life outside the confines of a uterus. And generally speaking, fetal viability before the 20th week of pregnancy is zero.
>>768685599
No you haven’t. You’ve just said it’s conception. What are the criteria for ‘being alove’?
>>768685581
I would say around 26 weeks, because the majority of these babies (around 90%) survive. If the baby is born premature and has to be placed in an incubator and is under the age of 26 weeks, then the mother should still have the right to abortion.
>>768685581
Science cannot keep a fetus alive outside the womb before 21 weeks.
No, a fetus that can live outside the womb is viable.
>>768685822
So really it's "when do we call it a baby?"
Because life never really began because the egg and sperm were both alive pre-baby
I'd say when the brain starts thinking
>>768680934
The tax payers already punish people who murder children after birth.
Sometimes we can get people that murder before birth if it wasn't the mother that murdered it
>>768677979
Then get your tubes tied or something balls snipped idk pop those morning after pills.. if you don't want another child then take the steps to prevent it from happening.
>>768685958
> Life energy
Are you fucking serious?
>>768677845
Do we count our age from birth or from conception?
checkmate anti abortion fags
>>768686519
>morning after pills
Still called abortion by many people.
>>768686372
Gotta agree with this, test tube babies are possible... But also a great argument for abortion
So how many years before birth is something alive? So like if she's not 18 in birth years, how young can I go in anti abortion years?
Maybe anti abortionists can prove she's 18 before she's even born.
>>768677845
So you are a man
THAT'S NOT MURDER, that's not making the mistake. I'd kill myself if I ever got pregnant and wasn't able to do an abortion because I HATE BABIES AND CHILDREN. I have no maternal instinct whatsoever and I'd be a horrible horrible mother and ruin that poor creature's life. Another option is to let the orphanage take care of it but I cannot imagine the quality of that person's life. Orphanage life is shit and that person would be miserable knowing that even his own mother didn't want him.
So that's my opinion
>>768686534
Yeah. What is it that you think keep the zygote alive?
>>768677845
Because under American common law and statutes, "the unborn have never been recognized ... as persons in the whole sense", and thus, the fetuses are not legally entitled to the protection afforded by the right to life specifically enumerated in the Fourteenth Amendment.
>>768680481
Amen. Dogs are much better than humans anyways. I'm 26 and my dog makes me feel complete
>>768686591
Well... We call it a birthday
Otherwise we would have "someone fucked my mom" days... Which is way funnier
>>768686519
Prophylactics aren't 100% reliable.
Yet another good reason to have legal abortion. Unless you favor condom manufactures being legally and financially reliable when their products fail..
>>768686833
Blood, mother's immune system, nutrient from mother
Not mystical life force you jackass
>>768686956
THIS! Make contraceptive manufacturers liable and watch the shitstorm.
>>768686921
"how old are you"
vs
"how many birthdays have you had?"
Which is asked more?
>>768687072
Yeah so instead of describing all of life's processes I called it life energy. There's nothing mystical about it.
>>768687089
"How old are you" is the obvious answer.
I wasn't arguing you idiot.
I was laughing at prospective alternatives.
>>768686225
I think there's 6 but off the top of my head
It can move on its own
It eats/feeds
It can reproduce
And I don't remember the rest. You can Google it if you want, but suffice it to say a fetus is scientifically alive.
>>768686956
True. I hate when people assume that only "sluts"
who fuck a lot of fuck everyone get pregnant .My mother told me once she had an abortion even tho she was on her pills and used a condom. (that still makes her say till this day and makes her wonder what that child would've turned out but my parents couldn't afford a child at that time because they already had a lot of problems).
personally I'm pro-abortion. It's just a bunch of cells for me.these things don't feel shit and I don't see them as human
>>768686225
Here ya go
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life
>>768687278
It makes you sound like a fucking retard, this being /b/ I am inclined to call you a fucking retard.
You should not be surprised.
>>768687394
"alive" as in not inert. So a fetus is alive in the same sense as bacteria is alive. Why are we protecting fetii?
>>768687394
Those are some shit tier criteria.
People in comas cant move on their own. Are they not alive?
A fetus can't reproduce. Neither can a 7 year old. Are they not alive?
A fetus can't feed on it's own. It's force fed by the mother. Left to it's own devices it would starve.
I can't wait for the other 3...
>>768687650
Its genetic code is not that of a bacteria you absolute mong
>>768677845
Because we are too many on this planet and most abortions are happening to middle and poor class which is good for everyone because they won't be able to raise it without the society's help which will decrease the population's way of living.
That's the bigger picture and a possible solution for the big mess our grandparents and parents made (thanks you old fucks).
Morally speaking, it's wrong to go through an abortion. Morally I am strongly against it, if you sex then you raise child, simple.
And not only that I am against abortion, but if I had the judicial power, I'd ban abortion and FORCE you by LAW to raise the child until he/she is 18 years old, if you break the law then you are forced into work (to pay the government) so the state will raise your child. Not prison, prison is useless. Controlled forced labor is the only way for this global society to prosper.
But hold your titties, there should be exceptions, like if the woman is in danger of dying or if she was raped or if the child has a very high chance to have a deadly illness or handicap.
But again, the human race is corrupt and fucked in the brain, these things, we discuss for nothing for we can't change a fucking thing (on a global scale). The only thing you can do is change what you can, like your family and friends and hope that nature can still repair the damage we did.
Thank you.
>>768687765
it's genetic code isn't mine, either. No need for me to care based on that.
>>768687758
People in comas are moving
I guess you never learned how cells work, a 7 year old and a fetus are reproducing you retard. In some ways, they're reproducing a lot faster than you are.
A fetus still feeds
>>768687834
This.
>>768677845
Why did god have to make the most desired feature (the climax) to be the most impregnating attribute to sexual intercourse
>>768687834
? Neither is my genetic code. Are you saying it's okay to murder regardless? Because that's not what we're discussing. We're discussing whether abortion is murder
It begins at ovulation
>>768687758
Also see>>768687533
Maybe read something for once. Understand science b4 talking about it
>>768687973
I'm saying the criteria doesn't warrant my concern. Being genetically different than both me and bacteria isn't a compelling reason to call cessation of life "murder". Poison oak shares that distinction. So do flies.
I was aborted and I turned out ok-ish
>>768685016
Numbers are wrong.
>>768686519
What kind of laws do you have in the US for tubal ligation? Here in Croatia, a woman must be min 35 years old and also she had to have 3 c-sections in order to have her request for tubal ligation considered by the hospital comitee. Even then she might be rejected. >>768686534
>>768688152
>The genetic code of a fetus is human
>A fetus is alive
>A fetus is a human
>Its illegal to murder therfore it should be illegal to abort
The left
>but we don't like that argument!
>>768689082
The genetic code of a mechanic's knuckles is human. Foreskin is genetically human. Skin is living tissue.
Oh save the poor humans on the tips of babydicks!!!!!! Murder!!!!!!!!
>>768689297
Not sure if troll
>>768690276
Not at all troll. I don't confuse a ball of meat with a living person. Abortion isn't murder for the same reason donating blood isn't murder.
