AstronomyFags, please help me out..
The Universe...
Infinite, Right or wrong
>>768616960
You do realize we're inside picture...
Everything we see in our night sky is just what's in our Galaxy we've yet to see outside our Galaxy.
>>768616960
Flat, open or closed.
There is infinite space into which the universe can expand, but the energy and matter composing the universe is not necessarily infinite.
>>768617587
So you mean with the naked eye or with help from a telescope?
![Screenshot_2018-03-15-14-56-07[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/5wVKajf.png "Screenshot_2018-03-15-14-56-07[1].png")
>>768617587
yes, anon, i get that.
But the entire universe must be infinite tho, yes ?
if there is an end, what's beyond that end ??
>>768617587
>we've yet to see outside our galaxy
wat? the diameter of the observable universe is about 93 billion light-years. keyword: observable
>>768616960
It is finite. The distance between items can expand endlessly but that doesn't mean there is infinite "space".
>>768616960
if it WAS infinite how would you know?
>>768616960
Not an astronomy fag but that's not known.
Its possible the universe is also just an infinitely small point and physics has gone whacky in there because everything in one place is kinda crazy.
>>768617587
False. We can see other galaxies.
>>768617980
then what else is out there ?
>>768618096
Nothing. And a key concept in astrophysics and quantum mechanics and what not is understanding that nothing is something.
>>768618026
I'm just saying , if it isn't infinite. what else is out there ??
>>768616960
universe expansion is accelerating it will reach light speed then accelerate backward in the time until it accelerate backward infinitely then it will go back to accelerating forward also traps are gay.
>>768618154
ok, but there is a space for that nothingness, right ?
>>768618155
we don't know if it's infinite because we can only see as far as light has travelled in the 14 billion years since the big bang. I think astronomers don't nominally consider anything outside our field of vision as "the universe" which could be a source of confusion if they were to say the universe is finite. What they really mean by universe is the OBSERVABLE universe.
Op here, maybe i'm not being clear...
I f there were a space ship capable of travelling nonstop in a straight line for eternity, would there be an end to the universe ?
>>768618415
The correct answer is: nobody knows sorry
>>768618217
Not necessarily. You're trying to frame this within a human frame of understanding. You're basically trying to imagine a new colour. It isn't possible.
We can't just imagine what we don't know and have no reference point for.
Evolution lets us understand exactly
justenoughh to stay alive and keep fucking. Everything else we learned is a bonus side effect from abilities we have.
That's what makes these concept so tough. We kind of need to observe it learn it or work it out somehow before our brains can wrap around it.
That's a big part of the issue.
>>768618155
Why would there be something else out there?
>>768618096
maybe the universe could be a 4 dimensional ball, so if you moved in one direction eventually you would come out where you started
>>768618450
ok, i get that, it just seems to me that such a journey would never end, because i can't imagine where or how it would end... A wall ? what's on the other side ??
>>768618574
i'm saying ii it all weren't filled with universe, which i think it is
>>768618155
It could be that the shape is such that traveling in a "straight" line eventually takes you back to your starting point, kind of like traveling in a straight line on the Earth. We live on a 2D plane wrapped around a 3D sphere, the universe could be a 3D shape "wrapped" in such a way that you can't get out of it by traveling in any direction in space.
>>768618606
interesting theory
>>768618613
unfortunately unless you have an IQ of 6 million you're not going to be able to imagine your way to an answer
N appears to be less than 1. So closed universe.
>>768618606
>>768618736
http://bigthink.com/natalie-shoemaker/what-is-the-shape-of-the-universe
Apparently it's flat
>>768618915
Nyah here we go.
If you're giving me evidence it's flat should I be screaming it's round at you and calling you a liar having no previous education myself? I don't know how 2018 works quite yet.
>>768618915
>But to say our universe is flat and leave it there would be irresponsible – it’s not quite that simple.
>It could be a Möbius strip for all we know—a shape where space bends and distorts, but lines stay parallel, ultimately connecting one end of space to another. That is to say, you could start from one point in the universe and drive in a straight line, you would end up back where you came.
If it is infinite, it would make things tricky with the big bang occurring a finite amount of time in the past. Not sure how they could be reconciled.
>>768619286
cyclical universe perhaps?
>>768618901
wrong
>>768619950
Hmm, that could explain being infinitely old, but how could it get infinitely large after the last expansion from singularity within a finite time?
>>768618915
Geometrically it is flat, but there are topologies which are non-trivial and yet "flat". I think a 3-torus is one.
Space was made from big fuggin explosions of gasses. No way the effects of that go on forever. Look at an explosion on earth. It's shock and blast go in a radius all around the center. That energy will eventually stop and will turn into something else
>>768618915
could flat also mean a sphere that is so huge that is looks flat?
>>768620782
Pretty sure the expansion is actually accelerating. It wasn't a conventional explosion, it was an explosion of spacetime itself.
>>768616960
http://www.vf.is/adsent/frelsi-til-ad-leigja/83147 thank me later anon ;)
>>768620918
>actually thinking a three-dimensional shape is in anyway "flat"
Imagine being this fucking dumb
>>768617587
Earth is far futher away from the center of the Milky Way than that. We're in one of the outer arms.
>>768621513
the earth is three-dimensional and flat too
>>768621513
>he doesn't watch rick and morty
>>768621947
>>768622055
>HURR DURRR, THE WOULRD IS THWEE DOMENSIONAL, BUT, BUT, IT IS ALSO F L A T
Get a load of these fucking mental gymnastics
>>768621513
>I don't know what cubes are
>>768617794
What exists in the space in which the universe has not yet expanded though?
>>768616960
You need to understand SpaceTime as a concept to know the answer to your question. The universe is as big as the time since it started lets it be.
>>768617766
The amount of dark matter already detected pretty much guarantees open at this point.
>>768616960
It's infinite, but more in the way that there's an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2.
>>768621513
The flatness talked about here is with regards to whether space is curved or not locally (on a really small scale). In flat space, you can move to another point in a straight line, but in curved space, you can only move along geodesics.
>>768616960
Only Death is real.
>>768622509
right. no end
>>768617889
What's faster than light? Did that electron travel through the left or right slit before helping to produce that interference pattern?
You're using the language and brains of animals evolved in a middle sized, slow world to discuss things that those animals never needed to know in order to survive and thrive. You shouldn't assume that words like "beyond" actually means anything when operating on a universal scale.
>>768622464
> b-b-but w-w-what is dark energy? Hurrr
i love shitting on retards like you that occasionally read scientific american or browse twitter and think you know what the fuck you're talking about
>>768622055
The fuck is up with Rick and Morty lately? I've seen a handful of these shit-tier comments just today.
Also, why do the people that watch it think they're so fucking smart?
>protip: they're not
>>768616960
Space doesn't exist beyond the finite universe. The universe can expand, and space will expand with it. But it is finite.Asking what's there is paradoxical. It's like "what happened before the big bang?" The words go together and seem to form an intelligent sentence, but are meaningless. How many corners does a circle have?
Space is a measure of distance. There's nothing there to measure distance against, so there is no space. You cannot measure distance from a point without at least two other points (one to be the thing measured against, and a third to provide a frame of reference so that distance can be quantified).
Space in the total-vacuum sense doesn't exist.
>>768618026
If it was infinite, I'd assume we wouldn't be expanding, because we've already reached the infinite.. boundary? But space is expanding, so we should have space be growing into more void. Yet, there's no reason the void shouldn't be infinite.
>>768622758
Good job trying to change the subject. You can discuss dark energy if you want, but it's not related to curvature. Only mass matters for that.
>>768622988
You're referring to a void as a thing distance expands infinitely into.
That's not how it works. Void at the edge of the universe doesn't exist. Nothing exists beyond the edge of the universe. You cannot travel beyond the edge of the universe. If you traveled out from what was the edge of the universe at one time, the universe would expand as you become more distance from everything in the universe other than yourself. There is no beyond the edge of the universe. It's oxymoronic to refer to it.
>>768622988
>boundary
So, you get to this imaginary boundary, and then move past it. Did the universe not just grow? You are information, and you just moved to a place where there was no information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86-Z-CbaHA
>>768616960
Finite but unbounded, just like the surface of the earth.
>>768623341
>unbounded
>surface of the earth
Th'fuck nigger?
>>768623219
Void was just a placeholder word because it'd be easier to say it like that. I understand what you're saying. If the universe is accelerating, that means we are a flat universe right? So, we will keep expanding forever, yet because we're expanding, the universe size can be quatified. Yes/no?
>>768623567
Yes.
>>768623406
He means if you constrain yourself to only moving along the surface of a sphere, you can move around infinitely without hitting any boundaries.
>>768623650
Shit. Okay. I wanted a nice discussion, but I guess we both agreed! Good night!
>>768623567
Not anon, but, dude...
Stop thinking about acceleration and that it's flat. It's not flat, acceleration doesn't matter (it's been slowing down anyways).
Maybe try thinking of it like that "fog of war" shit in those C&C games, but in a blob. As soon as you venture out into the dark regions, it now exists, because, there you are. You /are/ part of the universe, so you can never leave it.
>>768617889
>if there is an end, what's beyond that end
If space stops at a point, expanding or not, that means there is no space beyond it. There's nothing. No space in which for things to exist, be it light or matter or dimensions.
>>768623713
But that's not at all how the universe works.
>>768616960
It's ever expanding.
It's infinite.
>>768623871
No, I'm pretty sure we're accelerating. All space around us is expanding, so the further out you are, the faster it seems space is moving away from you, which is why far away AGNs are so red-shifted compared to closer ones. Your fog of war is the Hubble sphere, yeah. But, obviously the universe has grown past that.
>>768623069
> Only mass matters for that.
> energy matter equivalence
> thinking dark energy density doesn't influence the curvature of space
further indicting yourself you fucking moron. this is /b/ though i should expect idiots to spout of about shit they know nothing about.
>>768623934
but as more time goes by, as expansion continues, more space , therfore more universe is created ?
>>768624014
Op here.. this anon seems to understand what im trying to get at
>>768624168
Mate, he said dark matter, and you said dark energy. Those are two separate things. Dark matter is the extra mass required for us to explain the observation that a galaxy can be in orbit. Dark energy is the extra energy required for us to explain the observation that the universe is acceleration.
>>768624468
>Is acceleration
Whoops. Oh well.
>>768623950
The universe could be like that, the jury is still out on that possibility. The analogy of the surface of the sphere can be extended to 3D space.
>>768616960
In what dimension?
Who wants to suck my big feminine penis?
>>768622836
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily fromNarodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick and Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existencial catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a Rick and Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
>>768617889
>But the entire universe must be infinite tho, yes ?
no, it started with the big bang and is only about 14 billion light years across
>>768617889
>if there is an end, what's beyond that end ??
It is finite but unbounded. That's like asking "if the earth is not infinite then walking in a straight line I would fall off right" the universe is finite, it has only expanded a finite distance since the big bang, since nothing goes faster than light, that is it's max radius. However if you traveled in what you perceived to be a straight line long enough you would end up back where you started as the universe curves through several spacial dimensions
>>768616960
Mathfag here, so I'll try to use logic to get my caveman understanding here.
To me, it only makes sense that there's a finite amount of matter in the universe.
I'm assuming the big bang only produced a finite amount of energy, and that there's a little energy in every part of the universe. If those aren't true, just ignore this argument. Again, not a physicist or astronomer, just a math student.
By assumption, there's only a finite amount of energy in the universe, then there is a finite amount of energy distributed across an infinite universe, and by assumption, there is a little energy in every part of the universe, then we would all be arbitrarily close to absolute zero, since that would mean every particle in the universe had a finite amount of energy divided by an infinite amount of matter. Thus, it must be the case that the universe is finite, since we aren't even close to absolute zero.
How right/wrong is that? It just seems reasonable that the big bang could only produce a finite amount of energy, and it was distributed across all matter.
>>768621172
Conventional or not , physics is physics
>>768617587
>we've yet to see outside our Galaxy
You can literally see the Andromeda Galaxy with your naked eyes. Triangulum Galaxy under dark conditions.
>>768624260
>Op here.. this anon seems to understand what im trying to get at
if you are asking "is what the universe expanding into infinite" the answer is either "we don't know" or "the universe is not expanding into anything, all space and time started with the big bang, there is nothing else"
we don't really have the answers to those questions, we have no experience with anything not created by the big bang, including empty space itself
There could be other universes outside our own we can never travel to or see
>>768625930
bingo. thank you.
however, >There could be other universes outside our own we can never travel to or see
There is no end. so... infinite
>>768617587
>Everything we see in our night sky is just what's in our Galaxy we've yet to see outside our Galaxy.
you are a moron and have no idea what you are talking about
