God exists. Prove me wrong. Protip: You can't.

>>768315101
Africa

>>768315181

/thread

>>768315101
God doesn't. Prove me wrong.

Protip: You can't.

it's just a matter of i say you say
we're going nowhere this thread is as pointless with your life

Men need 2 minutes to cum
Women need 10 minutes to cum

>>768315101
Define God.

>>768315101
> "Prove a negative anons"
Prove unicorns don't exist faggot, or trolls, gargoyles, magic etc
Prove any of that doesn't exist.

>>768315325
this is why women fuck 5 different dicks a week.

>>768315529
there less argument for unicorns because not many people believe they are real. the vast majority of the planet, and humanity in general, believe in a god. so the claim that god does not exist bares a burden of proof.

>>768315101
God does exist
And he's muslim, praise Allah

>>768315748
The claim that god does not exist has a burden of proof. The claim that god does exist has just as much of a burden of proof. The number of believers is irrelevant.

>>768315101
Since you are making a claim (a "proposition" philosophically speaking), the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it (e.g., it is up to YOU to prove that "God exists"); it is not on those who do not believe the proposition, to prove a negative.

You cannot deny this, escape it, try to reverse the burden of proof, or do anything else whatsoever.

You aren't allowed to say, "prove me wrong". This is a fallacy and is prohibited in discussions of this type.

YOU have to provide proof supporting the claim that YOU are making. People who don't believe the claim DO NOT have to provide evidence.

I'm sorry if you don't understand this basic principle of philosophy but it happens to be fundamental to epistemology (Google it if you don't know). If it were otherwise then people would believe in all sorts of idiotic things from pixies to unicorns to "a Giant Teapot orbiting the Sun between Mars and Jupiter". The default position is NOT to believe claims until they are supported by adequate evidence.

Either provide convincing, objective evidence (note that references to ancient holy books do NOT count) that "God" exists (and then... "which God?"), or your claim will correctly be disbelieved by all the rest of us.

Have a nice day

>>768315748
The number of people who believe in something has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's true.

Not OP but kekking at how no one can do it.
>Inb4 overweight atheist defense brigade

>>768315748
Lots of kids believe in Santa Claus.....so by your definition he must be real

>>768317579
Ghthrp exists. Prove me wrong.

/popcorn

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I believe

>>768316019
you can't prove a negative, faggot.

>>768317978
1. You sometimes can. There are no square circles.
2. If you can't prove a claim, don't make it.

>>768317198
It's true that the burden of proof is on a believer to support their particular concept of God(s), but that doesn't mean that atheism is true by default. Because the question is transcendent in nature, everyone makes presuppositions about it at least implicitly, and it's not equivalent to arguing that something like a unicorn exists. Everyone must support their particular claim.

>>768315101
God doesn't exist.
You'd have to prove its existence.
Protip: You can't.

>>768318562
Atheism, broadly speaking, is simply the lack of belief in God. This is the default position. If you go beyond that to claim that there is in fact no God, then you have made a claim that you need to support. Until then, you don't.

>>768318562
So Mickey Mouse, Santa Claus, a leprechaun may exist by this premise?

>>768315275
this is the problem with debating this topic, most people dont want to state any sort of evidence for either side instead you all just attack each other

>>768319046
The difference being that you don't require evidence in order to not accept a claim.

>>768318756
If you lack belief in a transcendent God, then you implicitly believe that reality can be explained without such a God, which is still a positive claim. The key distinction is transcendent.
>>768318846
No, they're not transcendent

>>768319336
>If you lack belief in a transcendent God, then you implicitly believe that reality can be explained without such a God
Not necessarily. It could be the case that reality cannot be explained.

You can add the word transcendent all you like, but it doesn't change anything.

>>768319336
What is transcendent?

>>768315101
harry potter exist.. prove me wrong.
just because a book says they exist.. doesnt mean they do.
even harry potter is more real then god..

>>768319504
Asserting that it can't be explained is also a positive claim. And transcendence does matter. Denying a transcendent God affirms a purely materialist view of reality, which itself must be defended. There is no default belief for this issue the way there is for claims about physical items existing.

>>768320518
>Asserting that it can't be explained is also a positive claim.
Correct, but the point here is that a lack of belief in God does not necessarily result in the belief that reality can be explained without such a God. No positive claim is being made simply by not accepting the God claim.
>Denying a transcendent God affirms a purely materialist view of reality
Again, not necessarily. You could lack belief in a transcendent God yet not claim that only material reality exists.
>There is no default belief for this issue
Correct, there is no default belief. The default is to lack belief.

>>768320518
Name something transcendent other than God.

https://imgur.com/a/5YtLb

I made this valentines day card

Then Taylor Swift made this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmd-ClpJxA

AMA

>>768321011
WOW

>>768321011
HOLY FUCK

>>768321011
I WANT TO BELIEVE!!!!!

>>768321011
trjtgjgjyjtydjtydj

>>768315101
God doesn't exist. Prove me wrong.

Protip: You can't

>>768321011
>11
got dubs

>>768321011
JUST WOW

>>768321011
can anybody confirm this?
i feel love

>>768321222
People with trips are always right.

>>768320876
Not sure I follow. Even if you think lacking belief in God is the "default" somehow, everyone is still making some positive claim through at least implicit beliefs about reality (usually some form of materialism, but perhaps something else).

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>>768321222
If quads - thanos exists

>>768320999
It depends what you believe, but anything that is timeless and immaterial/beyond spacetime. Many would put numbers in that category.

>>768321011
DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

>>768321550
>everyone is still making some positive claim through at least implicit beliefs about reality
Not by simply not accepting the God claim they aren't, unless you want to be pedantic and say they are claiming that they aren't accepting the claim. Not accepting a god does not imply an acceptance of materialism or anything else about the nature of reality.

>>768321011
tehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhsttehtehtghtrhst

>>768321011
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>>768315101
https://youtu.be/Hz0tny34LsM

>>768321011
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>>768315101
YOU LIVE! >GOD EXIST! JESUS IS THE WAY> tO GOD!

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>>768315101

>>768321011
>https://imgur.com/a/5YtLb
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>>768321011
>THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST

>>768321011
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>>768315529
But we have evidence and reason to believe in God. We have no reason to believe in unicorns etc

>>768322317
What evidence and reason do we have to believe in God?

>>768317198
There is loads of evidence that God created the universe and that Jesus was the son of God and resurrected. I can't just all of it here but there's literally 2000 years of evidence. Documentation by philosophers, historians, eye witnesses. What are you even on about?

>>768322426
We have eye witness evidence of people being abducted by aliens. Do you accept their claims?

>>768322408
The universe exists. Something can't come from nothing. Can you posit a universe that comes from absolute nothing for no reason? How do you explain that? How do you explain the moral law? Natural law? Physics? The order of the universe?

>>768322562
Were hundreds of them willing to be tortured to death over their claims? Because many in the early church went to the deaths rather than recant. Peter and Paul alone. Peter was crucified upside down despite having escaped the Jews after the resurrection. What good reason did he have to leave safety and then go to Rome? All he had to do was say nothing and he'd go back to his old life. Instead he accepts death. Why?

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>>768317888

>>768322408
Holy fuck you 8 the shit out of that b8 m8

>>768322596
>The universe exists
Agreed.
>Something can't come from nothing.
Who says it can't or that it needed to?
>Can you posit a universe that comes from absolute nothing for no reason? How do you explain that? How do you explain the moral law? Natural law? Physics? The order of the universe?
The lack of an explanation is not an excuse to make one up. You need to actually support your claim.

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>>768320999

>>768321011
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>>768322775
People die for their beliefs all the time, does that make all those beliefs true? How sincerely one believes something has no bearing on how true it is.

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>>768321222

>>768322426
Not true. There is NO evidence for any of it, and I defy you to show otherwise.

Protip: the Bible does not qualify as evidence.

>>768322836
I'm supporting it. There is no instance in our 15 billion year HISTORY of something coming from nothing. Give me one example. It's not possible. If it were possible you could explain it to me but you can't.

>>768321011
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>>768321834
We all observe reality and believe things about it, at least implicitly. It's different than the unicorn case, where you can lack belief in it existing without offering an alternate explanation.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768322957
Why doesn't it though? There's more historical evidence for Jesus and the resurrection than Caesar but you believe one and not the other. Lol.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768322935
Do they? Can you give me examples of alien encounter claimants dying over their belief? Can you give me other non-religious examples of people dying for their beliefs?

>>768315101
I can't prove that he doesn't exist, and you can't prove that he does exist.

>>768322981
>We all observe reality and believe things about it
Sure.
>It's different than the unicorn case
Except that I can lack belief in a god existing without offering an alternate explanation. It's also no different from the unicorn case: It would be like if I offered unicorns as the explanation for certain markings, then demanded that you offer an alternate explanation.

>>768322957
To say there is no evidence is absolutely ignorant. Just because you haven't investigated it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Your arguments are invalid.

>>768322959
>There is no instance in our 15 billion year HISTORY of something coming from nothing.
Give one instance of nothing existing.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768322959
It happens all the time in quantum mechanics.

Just because you personally don't understand how science works doesn't mean it's not true.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768323140
>Do they?
Sure.
> Can you give me other non-religious examples of people dying for their beliefs?
Why must they be non-religious? Plenty of members of non-Christian religions die for their beliefs.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768323038
You're wrong. There's actually no evidence outside of the Bible that Jesus ever existed. Again, I defy you to show otherwise.

>>768322935
You don't have a clear picture of how people act or what happened after the resurrection. After Jesus died his disciples went into hiding. The were convinced that Jesus was not the Messiah. After all, how could the Romans kill their Messiah? Then they witnessed something that hundreds of them were willing to die for. That's significant. To slough it off is to let me know you're just being obtuse. I'd need a good explanation for WHAT happened there.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768323227
>>768323038
>>768322959
This faggot is copypasting the same arguments he uses in every one of these threads. Seen them countless times.
Would not be surprised if he was OP, an atheist and hence a massive troll.

>>768323227
Fine, then. You say there's evidence, point me at it. Prove me wrong. I'll wait.

>>768323406
Lol. What's the point debating with someone as ignorant as you?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

>>768323429
You do not have any evidence for this. Again, the Bible doesn't count.

>>768323429
>I'd need a good explanation for WHAT happened there.
It seems pretty simple. They believed that they witnessed something that hundreds of them were willing to die for. If you want to make a claim as to what actually occurred, you'll need evidence.

>>768323512
On what? God or Jesus? Are you kidding me? After 2000 years there's nothing that hasn't been explained. Open any book on apologetics. Lol. Anyway. Get to bed. You had a long day at school and tomorrow you can play with your friends lmao.

>>768323597
Why doesn't it?

>>768323636
So what did they believe they saw?

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768323671
>After 2000 years there's nothing that hasn't been explained.
Correct, but not in the way that you're hoping. Every apologetic has been deconstructed.

>>768315101
summon him, please. i'd like to speak with him. i'll wait.

>>768323724
They believed they saw the resurrected Jesus.

>>768323636
I have evidence. Jesus was never found. Although the Jews would have loved to produce a body. How about that? Where is Jesus' body?

>>768323525
I suggest you read that article. They say that most scholars believe Jesus existed, but also that there's no agreement on the details of his life or of anything he's said to have taught. And it also points out that we have nothing written about him during his lifetime.

Sorry, but with that link, you undermined your own argument.

>>768323819
So anyone whose body we cannot locate must have come back to life?

>>768323693
Because there's nothing special about the Bible. It's just another book. And you can't prove otherwise.

>>768323201
If you showed me markings and claimed unicorns made them, I should at least suggest that some other animal/natural process could explain them. I shouldn't just shrug and ignore the evidence. Likewise, if I claim there is a transcendent God to explain reality as we observe it, you should present your alternate view of reality, be it pure materialism or something else. This is different than simply claiming that a unicorn exists, which without evidence can be simply denied.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768321011
>>768321011
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>>768323671
Are you going to keep talking about all the evidence there supposedly is, or actually show us some of it?

Oh wait, you can't. Because there is none.

>>768321011
>>768321011
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Let me save you guys some time and energy.
1. There is no contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus. A simple google search can confirm this.
2. A belief in god is just that - a belief. This cannot be quantified or demonstrated in any meaningful way hence debate is pointless.
3. The existence of god cannot be disproved. Ever.

/thread

>>768315101
Dont have to, you have as hard a time proving he does as i would proving he doesnt.

> But the bible.
A book. Makes him about as real as the Justice League or Harry Potter.
>But theres evidence jesus lived.
If i claim to be the son of the spaghetti monster, and people write that down that still doesnt make it so.
>But the universe cant have come from nothing.
Just because we cant answer why and how (yet) does not mean your fairy tale is reality.
>But what about people whove had near death experiences that saw heaven?
The human brain does weird things. Its been proven to go in the same state it does for dreams.

>>768324295
/thread

>>768324113
>I should at least suggest that some other animal/natural process could explain them
This is where we disagree then. What you should do is point out that I have made a claim and make me justify the belief that unicorns made the markings. There would be no onus on you to offer an alternative explanation.
>Likewise, if I claim there is a transcendent God to explain reality as we observe it, you should present your alternate view of reality, be it pure materialism or something else.
Following from above, no, there is no need to do any such thing. If you claim that a transcendent God can explain reality as we observe it, it's on you to back up that claim. Until you do, I have no reason to accept it and have no responsibility to prove an alternative.

There's an invisible, mind reading unicorn dancing around your room right now, prove me wrong. When you try to touch him, he darts out of the way, he emits a force field that renders him invisible to every measuring device known to man.
Go ahead, prove me wrong.

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>>768315101
>Look at this, offers, guys!!

>>768324113
That isn’t true at all. Ignorance is a perfectly reasonable position to take. “I agree the marking exist but don’t know what made them” is a reasonable position.claiming a unicorn did it with no evidence to prove it is not. Especially because it’s an extraordinary claim. If you claim the marking is a tattoo, that’s common and reasonable enough that I might not even ask for evidence (tho you could be lying). But if you claim it’s a unicorn, you should expect people to ask you to produce further evidence

But tldr, you don’t have to offer an alternative to an explanation that already has no evidence supporting it

A five-year-old child has more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus than you have for the existence of God. Somebody's eating those cookies, after all.

>>768324580
fuck off pedo scum

>>768324684
You're talking to a bot you feeble-minded fuckwit

>>768324754
I know, but it's still satisfying.

>>768324292
>3. The existence of god cannot be disproved. Ever.

so it can be proven he does? pls do faggot

>>768324432
>>768324534
Claiming ignorance is still a claim. But really, that's the agnostic position. Most atheists claim more strongly that a God does not exist. Either way, the analogy falls apart because everyone is making some claim about reality on which they base their life and their view of what happens after death. There are consequences to even a claim of ignorance that simply don't exist for the unicorn markings.

>>768325445
I never said that. I was merely pointing out that OP's is asking the impossible. This thread is daily bait.
For the record, I'm an atheist, so I agree with you. Faggot.

>>768325536
>Claiming ignorance is still a claim
You're being pedantic, but in any case that claim is trivial.
>Most atheists claim more strongly that a God does not exist.
Can you back up that claim? Most atheists that I have encountered are also agnostic.
>Either way, the analogy falls apart because everyone is making some claim about reality on which they base their life and their view of what happens after death.
When you're being pedantic and saying "I don't know" is a claim, I guess you're right.
>There are consequences to even a claim of ignorance that simply don't exist for the unicorn markings.
Except it would be trivial to make a claim about unicorn markings with potentially serious consequences. Example: these markings were made by a unicorn, and if you follow them you will be gored by a unicorn.

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>>768315101

You're right, I can't. Funny thing though, is that you can't prove God exists. So, we're on equal ground here and you can't seem to see it. Which automatically makes me think you're too stupid to even hold a conversation about this subject and understand 50% of what I'd be talking about or 100% of why your "proofs" are not proofs at all. So I think your life would be more productive by just looking at a pair of tits connected to a pretty face.

>>768325942
I think you're being pedantic about using the unicorn example. There is no fully adequate analogy for one's beliefs about the nature of reality, the soul etc. I don't claim that your apparent lack of any explanation for these things makes my beliefs necessarily right, but it seems odd to be unwilling to at least explore the ideas. These are questions worth pondering and discussing.

>>768326713
>I think you're being pedantic about using the unicorn example.
>There is no fully adequate analogy for one's beliefs about the nature of reality, the soul etc.
We are discussing one specific claim: the existence of a transcendent God. The unicorn analogy seems to map quite well. My whole point is that not accepting the God claim does not necessitate any sort of beliefs about the nature of reality, the soul, etc.
> it seems odd to be unwilling to at least explore the ideas. These are questions worth pondering and discussing.
I fully agree and I'd be perfectly willing to explore the ideas, as long as you understand that exploring an idea and accepting an idea are two very different things.

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god doesn't exist anymore, he died 30.4.1945

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>>768327210

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>>768327668
wow, well thats edgy as fuck

>>768327047
The analogy is inadequate because a transcendent being by definition does not "exist" in the classical sense and the consequences of such belief are transcendent in ways that even "getting gored" by a unicorn aren't. And my whole point is that not accepting the God claim does limit your possible beliefs about reality. There is no philosophically neutral position, because even claiming ignorance in certain areas is indeed a kind of claim. I don't think that's being pedantic because such a claim still has far-reaching consequences for how you live your life and what other beliefs you can congruently hold.

>>768328013
>The analogy is inadequate because a transcendent being by definition does not "exist" in the classical sense
Then in what sense does it "exist"?
>the consequences of such belief are transcendent in ways that even "getting gored" by a unicorn aren't
How so?
>And my whole point is that not accepting the God claim does limit your possible beliefs about reality
Not accepting the unicorn claim limits your possible beliefs about reality. Example: you cannot believe that a man was gored to death by unicorns if you do not accept the claim that unicorns exist.
>There is no philosophically neutral position
There is though. The neutral position is to not accept the claim.
>even claiming ignorance in certain areas is indeed a kind of claim.
A trivial one. Claims about one's own beliefs / lack of beliefs / knowledge / lack of knowledge is trivial to the point that we generally just take people's word for it. You don't ask someone to prove that they don't know the capital of Iran when they tell you they don't.
>such a claim still has far-reaching consequences for how you live your life and what other beliefs you can congruently hold.
I'd be interested to know what consequences you think there are for not accepting the God claim.

https://youtu.be/WVfgYzeCGS4