How is Britain gonna survive economically when hard brexit happens?
>>752986060
You mean Britain pre-1973? I just assume the world will end
>>752986296
Not comparable as EU didn't exist. Now it does and all our natural trading partners are going to be separate to us.
So Britain's going down the gurgler?
Probably the same way any other country does? By making their own deals and regulations rather than letting a 3rd party entity decide their fate?
>>752986417
So creating free trade treaties/policies? Nothing should change. If anything, it's a better deal for Britain since they don't have to subsidize the Mediterranean countries (Spain, Greece, Italy etc)
>>752986422
Half the export cake is eaten by EU right now. Guess britain gonna have to bake a smaller cake and adjust their belts.
>>752986060
ask Portugal how they like being told how many tomatoes they can sell to the EU worked for them
>>752986060
fuck ue visca catalonia
>>752986060
By becoming a low-regulated tax haven, right on the EU's doorstep.
Multinational companies hate the red tape and protectionism of the EU. Britain is perfectly placed to undercut it, and suck up all the investment heading for the European market.
>>752987868
Yea, that's not gonna work. Most investments heading for the european market are interested in the single market.
>>752988186
>Not understanding economics
They'll be okay. EU doesn't need them and UK doesn't need the EU
I want spain to invade and destroy fckng gibraltar
>>752987737
go cry to belgium, faggot
Anyone else find it funny that Germany would be the super power of a unified Europe? I know that was one of Bismarck's goal and for ww1. So does this mean Germany wins ww1?
>>752986060
Why would we need the EU?
>>752988635
Europe its all but unified.
>>752988767
Because you enjoy affording to eat?
>>752988767
I like how this anon thinks
>>752988857
>Europe its all but unified.
Economically speaking of course. Just seems ironic they fought two world wars to let this happen
>>752988767
Because the other option is China?
>>752988186
>Most investments heading for the european market are interested in the single market.
What does this even mean? Such investments, by definition, come from outside the single market and don't benefit from it.
Britain's proximity to Europe and its free-market culture will encourage corporations to base there, leading to an influx of capital and talent.
>>752988857
Try asking the Spaniards, Greeks, Poles and Italians ...
>>752986060
It isn't. Which is why everything going on right now is either bluffing, fudging or smoke and mirrors.
>>752989173
I'm spaniard myself.
In europe, every country hates its neighbout.
Spain hates france. Italy hates france...
Well, everyone hates france.
>>752988767
>>752988882
fifth largest economy in the world, yea no.
>>752989337
We could have liked France.
>>752989337
>everyone hates france
No argument there.
>>752989119
Except that the EU has specifically said that they will not allow the UK to develop a low-tax economy and get preferential access to the single market. So, if the UK does try to go Singapore-style, then the EU will put tariffs on anything they export into the single market. In other words, your comment is bullshit.
>>752989119
It means chinese expansion into europe. Corporations arent interested in paying tariffs. Without deals a hard brexit will drain uk. Pharma and vehicle manufacturers will leave. And you cant beat Ireland as tax haven
>>752988857
>>752988951
>>752989337
He means "anything but unified" not all but unified
>>752986598
but you do realize they were getting more benefits than they paid money into right?
>>752989369
>muh fifth largest economy
>muh briitsh empire
Change the fucking record, brexshitters.
>>752986060
im p sure im gunna be fine regardless of what happens, im not poor and the people around me are not poor.
>>752989337
France fuck your mom.
>>752989549
Wales lived of the eu, now London is gonna have to start paying for it I suppose
>>752986548
/thread
>>752989549
>but you do realize they were getting more benefits than they paid money into right?
Not when they have to prop up failing countries for their own damn stupid decisions. Now they won't have to throttle their economy because Greece wants to spend money like a pimp with a week to live
>>752986060
legit, we're gunna be fine, you can keep your sinbads and dindu's, our ones are already assimilated and respected/respectful.
>>752986060
Britain's been on the relative economic decline ever since their empire ended and then their oil resources dried up. Brexit is just a continuation of that - this time an own-goal.
>>752988882
It boggles my mind that people still think socalism is a viable economic strategy.
>b-b-but anon it just hasn't been tried correctly
Go to Venezuela and try to paint that hellscape as a pretty picture. For that matter what about Malmo, Stockholm, or Germany, Luten? It's no surprise that importing 3rd world Muslims to pad the vote and help justify the need for excessive government has destroyed these places.
Go read up on the fall of Rome and perhaps you can see the parallels and maybe understand why Brexit was taking a step back from the edge.
>>752989854
Fuck me, you're stupid. Our access to the single market had an economic benefit that far outweighs the contribution we make to EU funds. To take an example, if we give 5% of our GDP to the EU, then leave, and our economy shrinks by 10%, then we are still 5% poorer than we were before, even though we're not giving the EU any money.
>>752989913
>our ones are already assimilated and respected/respectful
>>752990040
That's fair. But I do suspect they can make up that difference within the next 5-10 years and still hold more sovereign autonomy in the process
>>752990002
Also miluti-ethnic =/= multi-cultural. Fundamentally different cultures don't mix, they go to war and one side loses.
>>752990067
soz fam i dont hate anyone i live around dont get mad
>>752990132
they can merge, like niggers merged with the usa
>>752989369
>fifth largest economy
Lol, the UK lost that spot just in the aftermath of the vote, or aren't you keeping up on current events?
>>752990308
Cuz niggers lost the culture war and were forced to accept it.
>>752990308
>like niggers merged with the usa
oh boy, you guys are fucked
>>752990002
Sweden and Germany has better gdp growth then UK. We were talking economics here, keep your racists shit in /pol/
>>752986060
It won't /thread
So many butt hurt Europeans itt.
>>752990388
do you watch tv, movies or listen to music?
>>752990116
Suspect based on what? And sovereign autonomy over what? Trade? We basically have two options:
1) stay in the single market and the customs union, but without any say in decisions, which will be taken by EU members - so, like the situation now, but with *less* autonomy
2) Basically beg for favourable deals with other big economies, such as the US and India, but which will come with major conditions because we're so desperate, e.g. we will be forced to lower our welfare standards (for a deal with the US), or we will be forced to allow more immigration (for a deal with India) - again, *less* autonomy.
You know we have MEPs, right? We *vote* to have representatives in the EU who take decisions on our behalf.
>>752986060
europeans are such god damn cucks
>>752986060
GB will be fine. The EU will fall.
>>752990483
Just music.
>>752990602
anything to recommend?
>>752990473
Trump literally told May to fuck off last week and May had to shush down in shame because Brexit. Anglos aren't united you dumb fuck
>>752990661
>Trump literally told May to fuck off last week
>literally
>>752990116
HOW. And that's the real point, no Brexiter (other than Mogg's "poor man's Singapore") has yet demonstrated where these rivers of gold are going to come from. Even with a hard Brexit, goods and services still need to comply with EU legislation if we want to sell them in the EU, so all this "getting rid of red tape" bullshit is nonsense. Fox abandoned his claims that the UK would be able to negotiate better deals outside of the EU than in it within days of the referendum, now he's just trying to replicate what we already have. The US and other members of the WTO have already shown that they will block any attempt by the UK to gain an advantage even if we're stupid enough to fall back on WTO rules (which we don't yet even have schedules for). Every single claim that the UK can benefit, or even break even, economically by leaving the EU is either an outright lie or is totally unsubstantiated.
All for the "benefit" of "taking back control".
>>752990658
In extremo, blind Guardian, Santiano, Big bad Voodoo Daddy, Black cat zoot, scandroid, sonata arctica, Vladimir vysotsky, Jacek kaczmarski. Any specific type of music you want?
>>752990791
>poking at semantics
>not embarrisng yourself
pick one
>>752990492
Option 2 is not a bad deal at all. You're making it sound like other countries don't already do that. I doubt the EU will be as strong of a market without Britain. Britain and Germany are really the ones holding it together. The rest of Europe has to come to them now. I do think the British GDP will improve once it leaves the EU entirely. Do we happen to know the annual GDP growth percentage is right now for Britain while in the EU? That I would like to know
>>752990838
we will be fine anon dont concern yourself with us.
>>752990841
wow you sound like a massive faggot
>>752990841
>Santiano
really? i thought it was a meme or something
something like black keys, sacri monti or truckfighters
>>752990917
I may sound like a faggot but at least I ain't one like you.
>>752990838
If Europe wants to deal with Britain it's going to have to lower the regulations for goods. They got themselves into a problem by putting high regulations on things.
>>752990969
Eh, its a decent background noise with pleasant rhythm.
>>752991005
kek ok bro have fun with that
>>752990903
GDP growths are easy to google
>>752990903
So...bye bye compulsory holidays, workers' rights, the NHS. Have you ever lived in the US? I can tell you that, if you're rich, it's great. If you're poor, it's fucking terrible. I would much rather be working class and live in any western European country than in the US. As regards to GDP growth, the UK is well below the EU as a whole, and this is almost certainly entirely due to Brexit.
>>752991150
>at least I ain't one like you
ooooohhhh burn, idk how you'll survive such a vicious slam anon
>>752990903
>You're making it sound like other countries don't already do that
That's just it, they don't. APEC, Cairns, NAFTA, do any of those ring a bell? The world is divided into trading blocs, that's how collective bargaining works. At a time when everyone else is becoming more protectionist and coming together for mutual benefit, the UK is casting itself adrift. Just look how protectionist the US is now. If you thought TTIP was bad, just wait until you see the deal May is going to have to sign.
>>752991240
ill probably lull it away with some sweet, white music
>>752991197
>So...bye bye compulsory holidays, workers' rights, the NHS.
fine with me. keeps them competitive
> Have you ever lived in the US?
I'm actually American. Europe is pretty much second world. You spend and regulate too much and wonder why you have a hard problem making deals.
>>752991197
>>752989502
>preferential access to the single market
Nobody wants or needs this. And tariffs from the EU will just be met by counter-tariffs from the rest of the world. The EU will be forced to compete or stagnate, while its brighter talent and more ambitious companies drain away to Britain. Checkmate, Juncker.
>>752991500
lmao, who would counter-tariff just becuase UK gets a high tariff? The world dont give a shit about the uk
>>752991500
Unless May literally has Jesus on the negotiating team for this wonderful deal you're proposing where other countries shit on their own deals with the EU just to benefit the UK, that ain't gonna happen is it.
>>752991500
This
>>752991885
Maybe Trump could time his uk visit for this moment, lend out his expertise
>>752991885
>literally
Again
>>752992171
Literally meant literally in that case, fat ass.
>>752992253
>L I T E R A L L Y
>>752986598
you do know it takes years to negotiate free trade agreements? and that throught the Eu britain has over eighty free trade agreements with all the major economies of the world, adn is walking away from that?
do you get all your opinions from the Daily Mail by the way?
>>752991386
What the fuck do you mean by deals? This bullshit American idea that because your society permits you to get exploited, sacked for no reason, and die without healthcare, somehow this means you're going to become a millionaire someday is just ludicrous. I want strong worker rights, paid holidays, and regulation so I don't get exploited. I hope you don't get sick, really I do.
>>752991662
Duh. The countries who benefit from the UK's tax haven status and have companies based there. They will jump at the chance of assaulting the EU regulatory system.
Not that it will be necessary anyway, because the EU exports so much to the UK. The Germans aren't going to piss in their own chips by starting a trade war. The EU is their own private mercantilist empire.
>>752987868
so that will give a few bankers a few billions more to play with. great. now how about everyone else, or do you think the top rate of income tax should be raised to 90% and a bank transaction tax loaded on top to pay all the unemployed a decent living wage?
>>752988372
>not understanding economics or international trade one little bit
wew lad you rally are ignorant on a huge scale.
>>752991500
>>752992423
Or...if the EU says they put in place tariffs against the UK, maybe, just maybe, this will encourage countries to invest directly in the EU! Haven't you figured it out yet? Economically, if it's the UK against the EU, the UK will lose. If the UK tries to undercut the EU, then the EU will make sure that they can't, at which point, all of the supposed advantages of investing in the UK disappear. The EU is 10x larger than the UK in terms of GDP. The UK will lose every time.
>>752992391
>This bullshit American idea that because your society permits you to get exploited, sacked for no reason, and die without healthcare, somehow this means you're going to become a millionaire someday is just ludicrous. I want strong worker rights, paid holidays, and regulation so I don't get exploited. I hope you don't get sick, really I do.
Have fun being a second rate country with that attitude. Fucking sad that you guys have a race to bottom to see who can go bankrupt first. Can I get you a fainting couch after that histrionic emotional out burst? We found the socialist, boys!
>>752992482
Every Brexiter is, that's the reason the vote passed. Mass ignorance, and blind faith.
>>752989119
You have not got it have you? all that foreign investment in the Uk was because it was a doorway into the EU - and in particular the pharma industry because the Uk had laxer laws and could then export american drugs to the Eu in a way they could not do through France or Germany. all that now goes.
Ask murica and Canada to feed and supply them, just like WWII.
>>752992562
As I enjoy my 10 day paid vacation over Christmas, with relatives who are only alive and not bankrupt because of socialised medicine, with my kids who got to spend 6 months with their mother because of paid maternity leave, I will drink a high quality European beer and think of you.
>>752992562
Except before all this the UK was doing fine and certainly not in danger of going bankrupt, was it. Oops.
>>752992648
So you're a leech who steals money by government force from people to live the good life? Got it. Must be nice know while other people work hard you get to live in luxury by exploiting them at the ballot box
>>752992423
It's hard to reply to something as far fetched from reality as this. There are no countries that benefit from another being a tax haven, only corporations.
>>752991500
I love the blinkered and uneducated madness of this. You should be in may's cabinet - you would fit in so well with those idiots.
>>752990473
>>752992720
A few more "loans" to Spain, Italy, and Greece would do the trick
>>752992423
you also miss out the non tarrif barriers to trade. All the Eu has to do is change a regulation, (and the UK now has no means to stop this or discuss it or veto it) and the Uk manufacturere suddenly is non compliant adn cannot export. and needs to comply, and show they comply, and provide documentation and testing for complying at their expense. rinse repeat, and the Uk goes bust while Eu suppliers take up the slack...
>>752986060
opening a massive amount of these to serve the country
>>752992721
No, I pay my taxes, my fellow citizens pay taxes, and we all benefit. I am happy to pay taxes because they bring benefits to me and my fellow citizens - I am happy to know that other people in my country won't go bankrupt just because they get sick, that kids will grow up getting to see their parents, that families can spend quality time with each other every year.
>>752992735
Being this jealous.
>>752986060
sounds like most of what you guys are saying is that the EU will attempt to make it hard for the UK to trade properly.
>>752992877
>I am happy to pay taxes because they bring benefits to me and my fellow citizens
Of course you're happy to do it. You can vote away people's money so you can live off their labor. Like any good parasite. Of course you morally obscure the fact that you're stealing money by saying you vote and pay taxes. If everyone benefits by paying taxes, why not have a 100% tax and then it would be perfect?
>>752992721
so you are a freeloading smug bastard who thinks it is fine to pay twice as much for health care but get a shittier service just so that poor people can die from curable disease ans you don't have to pay for them?
you can keep the moral low ground along with your crass antisocialism.
anyone who thinks taxation is theft is anti democratic and a leech.
>>752992930
Because the UK goes from being an ally to being a competitor. Why would you expect any different?
>>752992775
no. Nope. Nah, You are talking shit again. Learn to economics.
>>752992721
You should come and spend a couple years here and sample how the life of the free people really is. Just pick any eu country higher on the human freedom index, usa is ranked 20
>>752987868
Great. So we not only stick our middle fingers up at our friends in the EU, but we then show utter disdain for the needy in our country by becoming a fucking tax haven and helping greedy corporate cunts to get even richer?
Kill me, please, this timeline is a nightmare for my country
>>752992922
Not really...
>>752992988
i wouldnt expect any different its just funny that the EU are cuckolds in every possible aspect
>>752992979
because a 100% tax would not be perfect, obviously. There are some things that a free market, or at least a well regulated market, does very well. there are others that it does not do well - morality being one of the things that free markets really suck at. A mixed economy is the only moral, and economically sound one. Simplistic nonsense like you are spouting is just simplistic nonsense.
>>752992980
>so you are a freeloading smug bastard who thinks it is fine to pay twice as much for health care but get a shittier service just so that poor people can die from curable disease ans you don't have to pay for them?
I never used government force to make people pay for things I wanted.
>anyone who thinks taxation is theft is anti democratic and a leech.
You're the leech, you vote for men with guns to come and take people's money. Then brag about your wonderful lifestyle. If they refuse to pay for your luxurious lifestyle, men will come and throw them in prison. Sounds magical. Please tell us more about how moral you are stealing from people using government force by proxy.
>you can keep the moral low ground
LOL yes because stealing people's money with force isn't the moral low ground /s
>>752992979
I said I am happy to pay taxes. I didn't say that I am happy to give all of my money in taxes. I am happy to live in a society in which I give up a certain proportion of my income so that I, and my fellow citizens, benefit from good schools, free hospitals, clean streets, paid holidays etc. The amount of tax I pay gives me that. If I paid less, and that meant I didn't have those benefits, I would be less healthy, less happy, and with fewer opportunities in life - the life I've seen poor people in the US suffer. I choose to live in a country in which I pay a moderate amount of tax, and have a better life.
>>752993078
I'll pass. I don't want to be a leech and steal hard working people's money because I want a vacation
>>752993163
yeah like that is ever going to happen. Might as well post a picture of american nazis and claim they are a real threat.
>>752993136
Regret which side you chose in WW2 yet?
>>752988635
Better late than never.
>>752993224
if everyone in the country has the same vacation rights, who is stealing from anyone?
>>752993176
I really do not know what this means.
The EU is married and its wife is sleeping around?
>>752989672
The fucking Welsh received the most help from the EU per person and they also voted for Brexit in the highest numbers
What the fuck, Wales?
>>752993183
Tell me how using government force to live a luxurious life is morally superior to free markets which doesn't steal people's money. You literally rob the poor to pay for your comfy life style.
>>752986548
That's to logical...We don't do logic around here.
>>752990661
Do you even read the news?
>>752993176
If by cuckolding you mean the UK fucking itself into oblivion while the EU and the rest of the world stares on in disbelief, I agree.
>>752993277
What if I didn't want a vacation and to keep my own damn money? I don't have a choice since it's stolen at gun point
>>752993241
> yeah like that is ever going to happen.
Hmmm i came...
>>752993176
How are they cucks?
>>752993185
>I never used government force to make people pay for things I wanted.
like fire service, police, roads, education of the populace so you have good employment and efficient workforce, environmental regulation so you have water to drink, and all the other myriad benefits you gain from a civil society?
oh yeah, you are a self made man, and island unto yourself, no one ever helped you, you never got nothin from no gubbermint.
fuck off freeloading leech.
>>752993304
What do you expect, they fuck sheep all day, economics was never a strong point.
>>752993190
So you're content with being happy so long as you steal people's money? Got it. Sounds very moral to me
>>752989854
holy shit stupidity at its best
>>752993372
What if I don't want an army as big as my country has? What if I don't want money to go to schools because I don't have any kids? In every country in the world, you have to pay taxes for things that you do not want or need.
>>752993185
it is not stealing if you are part of the social contract - it is the cost of having a society in which to trade and live.
you think you are not part of society, and get no benefit from it? You are wrong.
like they say, if you don't love it, leave it - you need pay no taxes if you fuck off to antarctica or hide out in Uganda.
>>752993405
We have private versions of those. Hence why the US supreme court case Gozales v. Castle Rock is so important but sadly rarely covered
Again, you're a leech who is just mad that you got called out for exploiting people
>>752993429
Every country in the world has a tax system. Are you telling me you don't pay tax of some kind? Let me ask you a question: do you think people should be able to opt out of paying tax for the military?
>>752993308
>Donnie: czheck oot deez mooslims mudslimes!
>May: nono donnie, thems arent really true
>Donne: stfu bitch
>May: ....
>>752993304
we are not a clever people
>>752993475
Private military, we have a provision for writ of marque and reprisal in our constitution. You send your kids to private schools or have a voucher program. There is already private solutions to government that we have
>>752993530
You have private roads you drive on to go to the store?
>>752993565
Yes I do. Again, we have the option in the US constitution that allows for the writ of marque and reprisal
>>752990002
>go read up on the fall of Rome and perhaps you can see the parallels
Bitch, stop posting this fucking meme about Rome. If you're going to try and draw a historical analogy between one nation leaving an economic union and the collapse of the Western Roman empire after multiple invasions, then you don't know shit about Roman OR modern history, faggot.
Rome fell because of, in no specific order:
>The opulence and weakness of the Senatorial classes
>The endless frontier wars that Rome coud no longer afford because it was too busy fighting fucking wars to effectively raise money
>Vast movements of new populations of people who Rome tried repeatedly to fuck over and wipe out but failed dramatically
>A lack of religious unity, which for ancient soecities is a big fucking deal
Now fuck off back to history class, you dickless alt-right faggot
>>752986060
It's going to be a disaster for them. I have no idea why May doesn't realize that. Anyway, they were never really "in". Good riddance.
>>752986060
It will not be as comfortable as they have been accustomed over the past several centuries, but they can still come out on top in the long run. All you must do is kick out any non-native Briton, and wait for the rest of the developed world to devolve into retarded brown mongrels.
>>752993681
yeah we do. why is this such an alien concept to you? I think we should have more
>>752993305
you know you are arguing with two different people? also, how do you know how much tax I pay, or have paid? i am fairly sure I am net contributor to society at least in direct terms - I have rarely used the NHS, never had unemployment benefit and have paid a lot of national insurance and income tax for thirty years. I have one child who was not educated in state school.
so I reckon that the other money I gave in tax has paid for other people's kids to be educated - good thing too, I don't want to be surrounded by uneducated yobs. It paid for my grandmother's health care costs - and my Parents now they are getting older. It pays their pensions, and I will get one - I contributed. i get good roads and good clean air and water (and I pay rates and water charges and my TV licence and that is a fucking bargain too)
so don't call me a leech.
You who want all the benefits and take them and don't want to pay for them - you are the thief, the leech, the freeloader.
>>752986548
taking years to negotiate them, needing thousands of lawyers and experts which we do not have... yeah that sounds great. By 2035 our economy should be back up to where it was two years ago before we started this shitty idea.
>>752993763
It is very foreign to me. I just go get in my car and drive to the shop, I never have to stop for a beam and pay toll.
>>752993818
>What this guys says
>>752989854
>Greece wants to spend money like a pimp with a week to live
who doesn't want to live like this?!?
>>752991402
such a great lie.
of course the fall int eh pound has wiped that much off the value of our trade every week...
>>752986548
This.
>>752993818
>You who want all the benefits and take them and don't want to pay for them - you are the thief, the leech, the freeloader.
Who said this? You're putting words in my mouth I never said. You're a liar LOL Show me where I said any of that
>so I reckon that the other money I gave in tax has paid for other people's kids to be educated - good thing too, I don't want to be surrounded by uneducated yobs. It paid for my grandmother's health care costs - and my Parents now they are getting older. It pays their pensions, and I will get one - I contributed. i get good roads and good clean air and water (and I pay rates and water charges and my TV licence and that is a fucking bargain too)
>give in tax
You didn't give shit. You were forced by government. You are a leech. You try to make yourself feel better when in reality you did shit. You stole people's money to pay for your self interests with government force. Congrats! You're a parasite
>>752991500
>Nobody wants or needs this.
lol
good one.
you want a hole in the head to go with that?
>>752994032
It was so fucking stupid, and the idiots just bought it...
>>752993380
>>752993318
>>752993281
it means the EU are little cucks
>>752994048
>forced to pay by government
>a leech
your arguments arent holding up, billy bob
>>752994182
sure kid
>>752994048
Although I'm not the person you're replying to, I would point out that I am a young, healthy male without kids. I haven't been to the doctors in years, I don't take my full vacation allowance, I work full time and I willingly pay taxes. I am delighted to pay them, because I see the benefit they give to me and my fellow citizens. Currently, I pay in more than I take, but that may change in the future. I'm happy to live in a country where I will be taken care of if I get into trouble, and I am happy to pay taxes that support other people who are in trouble now. I am not a leech or a parasite, nor are my fellow citizens.
>>752994321
i know its fashionable in your culture to be a cuck but damn daniel it might be easier to type without cocks in your hands
>>752994232
You're a leech because you have no problem voting for these things. Which is not a voluntary action. It requires government force. I would have more respect for you if you outright directly stole from your neighbors. At least you couldn't hide behind this thin veil of moral superiority when you vote to have it done to your neighbors. All you pretty much did was using the government's monopoly of force to live a certain lifestyle. You're a leech because then you go on to defend it and make a moral argument on why grandma benefited because you voted for men with guns to come to take it from others.
>>752994394
>I am delighted to pay them, because I see the benefit they give to me and my fellow citizens.
That's all well and good. But there is a better alternative than using government force to make these things happen. For fucks sake. You people are the ancestors of western intellectuals like Edmund Burke. What happened to having the organic nature of true charity and local community that is supposed to take care of people. You're abdicating a responsibility that is organic to citizenship.
>>752986060
Britain don't give a fuck, 'cause have sovrain money.
>>752986060
Probably the same way they basically started and funded the EU in the first place.
First thing we need to do is kick out the Tories. They couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery so we're not gonna succeed at anything until they're gone.
>>752993916
So, you'll have a stable ecomony *and* you'll be able to make your own decisions. I don't see where the problem is.
>>752994470
While I seek no respect or recognition from a plebeian such as yourself, do know that seeing that utter failure of whatever school system you attended makes me very thankful for being born and raised where I was. You may not achieve much in life but do know that atleast you are a good bad example.
>>752992562
wasn't 'murrica unable to pay wages for a few days under obama?
yeah, great first world country.
>>752986060
You survived when hard cock happened. Britain will be fine.
>>752994844
*yawn* 2/10 moral grand standing. I've seen better theatrics at a high school play
>>752994678
I think you mean descendants. Anyway, I'm a descendant of intellectuals like Keir Hardie, William Beveridge and Aneurin Bevan, and I know what they achieved.
>>752994812
The 20 years of shit and poverty, that's a tough pill to swallow when you're not 20 yourself.
>>752994470
just lol.
nice example that the only thing we can learn from murrica are comics and how to do propaganda every idiot believes in.
>>752994899
Not that I can remember. Believe me, we have our own problems of spending and regulating too much. Obama was nowhere near a fiscal hawk. I voted against him twice. You will not see me defending Obama
>>752995087
Happened when GOP shut down government, your memory is failing grandpa
>>752994678
yeah works great in murrica. see education, health-care system....let's say every criteria that makes a country a life-worthy country.
>>752995259
nope it was under obama, but gop has taken action.
i remember, though it's still a failed-state action.
see the arguments of reptards why they did it....
>>752995007
I meant ancestors in the vein of people like him. I'm American but my family came here with the pilgrims from England. My family history is deeply rooted in England and Wales. I am an anglophile at heart. I do believe the British have taken on too much of what was described in the late 19th-early 20th as becoming too "Bismarckian" when it came to the role of the state in people's lives
>>752986060
Watch this
http://agorastrea.dyndns.info/videos/700/piigs-the-movie-audio-eng-sub-ita/
Why is it that economies always go tits-up under right wing governments, yet they've managed to sell everyone the lie that they're the ones who can be trusted with It?
>>752995259
You mean the government shutdown? You're confusing shutting down portions of the government and outright not being able to pay people. Private businesses were fine. That doesn't effect them. Social programs? Not at all. Those were fine. Believe me, I wish those would get shut off
>>752995085
Name one thing wrong with my points. I want to see this in great detail
>>752995353
The gop controlled house did it. it aint fucking hard to google government shutdown 2013
>>752995087
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013
>>752995269
Which country tries to emulate who again? Last time I checked it was America that was the gold standard
>>752995511
see this >>752995595
Yeah they shut down a few parks and portions of the federal government. I don't see how that's a bad thing. You make it seem like the police, firemen, schools and every public utility was out of service
>>752995388
You completely misunderstand the cultural history of Great Britain, and the shattering effect of the Second World War. It wasn't "Bismarkian", it was the realisation that the entire nation had come together as one, to become greater than ourselves as individuals, to fight an existential threat. We realised what we could achieve working together, and so we extended that into civil society. It is one of the most remarkable things that the British people, in the aftermath of Churchill's great victory, voted him out. Why? Because they did not like his vision of Britain's future society. They wanted a social safety net, welfare, a free health service, and they got it, even though the British economy was in a parlous state.
>>752995551
that's like "say me what's wrong with communism".
so, do you relly believe or even think that america has the best health-care system or educational system of the world? do you realy believe there that charity can take care of things modern state does?
>>752995595
Sooo...you're conflating parks being shut down for a week to nobody getting paid?
>>752995809
not even the soviet union didn't stop police etc. at the breakdown
>>752995851
You're evading my points and moving the goal posts. I said government force was immoral and you never answered. You just scoffed and continued on. If you cannot follow a conversation, not talk
>>752995839
This anon knows what he's on about.
>>752996042
I know they didn't. Stalling minor government functions like parks is hardly nobody getting paid
>>752995839
I'm taking pre-ww1 Britain. You even admit you changed the idea and spirit of citizenship to a bigger Hegelian state. Why? Because you won a war? Sounds like you lost the war if the character of your country changes
>>752993757
May knows it - she was a remainer.
and we were at the heart of Europe - we had power and influence and friends. Now we will be out of all three.
>>752995839
Tell me though, what was the point of winning a war against national socialism and collectivism if you adopt the economic planks from it? All you did in that case was neutralizing a German flavor of a political system that you ended up adopting
>>752986060
The real question is: how're you going to survive when they boot you off the dole, you git!
>Yeah, we all know you're just taking the piss.
>>752996252
Once again, you're showing your ignorance of British history. The major impetus towards the development of a strong welfare state was the Beveridge report of 1942, in the middle of World War Two. And the character of a country changes constantly - it's ludicrous to pretend that it doesn't. Slavery was permitted in the British Empire until 1833. Women couldn't vote until 1918. Society changes massively, and will keep changing massively. If you think you have much in common with anyone from the 18th century, even Edmund Burke, you're deluding yourself.
>>752996536
Free will and survival, obviously
>>752996584
>Slavery was permitted in the British Empire until 1833. Women couldn't vote until 1918.
And yet you regressed back to a system that was out dated from the start. All you did was adopt a system molded from German Romanticism. You were progressing very well then decided the state should have more control. Yes societies change, but I wouldn't say for the better.
>>752986060
It won't.
The UK will get shafted under WTO tariffs, won't be able to conclude trade deals until after exiting, which means it will be desperate for deals, so it will get bullied by literally everyone.
Muh 5th largest economy argument doesn't work, the UK is only the 5th largest economy based on its current trade deals, once Brexit happens, the economy will be a shitshow and every country the UK wants to trade with will be dictating terms
>>752992979
You are one delusional free market retard. You’re trying way too hard to make your point. People pay taxes to benefit from them. The real leeches are the ones that try and redirect that money to the private sector just for the sake of the profits of a few. Terrible excuse of a human being is what you are
>>752996646
Yes of course. But it seems counter productive and wasteful to then adopt the enemies political platform and change the relationship of the state to the citizen. You might as well have surrendered. All you got out of it was a British version of the German system and plenty of dead bodies
>>752996920
>Terrible excuse of a human being is what you are
Says the person who wants to live at the expense of everyone else by violence
>>752988470
Cállate puto español. Muérete moro de mierda.
>>752996536
Because *we* chose to do it! We wanted it! We wanted those benefits, we wanted poor people not to starve, for people not to die of preventable illnesses just because they are poor.
>>752993185
Oh you mean stealing like corporate welfare, and lobbying for legislation to be repealed so US can have another economic collapse? You mean stealing like that? Get a grip
>>752991197
Hey! I'm American and I love my work. Only thing I hate here is the dmv
>>752996944
Surrender in armed conflict is never an option when it comes to the homeland, maybe for a deluded fuck such as yourself it would be.
>>752997102
>we wanted poor people not to starve, for people not to die of preventable illnesses just because they are poor.
That goes back to my Burke comment. It's on *YOU*, atomized YOU to do something. Not go to the ballot box to make yourself feel better about the poor. It's on private organizations and interpersonal relationships. You're morally evading the personal responsibility by saying "well, I voted to give poor people things. My job is done". It's a cheap, lazy substitute for actual communities and morality
>>752991386
Yeah, I'd hate compulsory holidays actually. Is it even paid? Even if it is, I'd rather continue mastering my profession. The fuck is the point of a job if you don't take pride in your craft and look forward to what you can achieve
>>752997133
>Oh you mean stealing like corporate welfare
I am 100% against corporate welfare. I don't think corporations should be getting any public money. But yes that is also stealing
>>752997283
Well, in real life some people have to work for a living and still feel that the sick and the old needs caring for. Hence government controlled healthcare
>>752997214
>Surrender in armed conflict is never an option when it comes to the homeland,
Go ask Ghandi, he wrote multiple letters for Britain to surrender the homeland but keep its dignity. You pretty much did intellectually surrender to German even if they were crushed on the battlefield
>>752997329
Lonely virgin detected
>>752994678
That’s right you tell them. Everything should be done through corporate force. Then you’re not the leech, but the corporation is forcing on your behalf by proxy. Wow you so woke
>>752997329
Work that out with your PRIVATE job and not the tax payer. Nice to see you have no problem using tax payer money to pay for your vacations. Must be nice to exploit your fellow citizens
>>752997329
Socialism and communism are calling
>Russian shills played both the US and the UK like a fiddle
amazing
>>752997455
No, we did what Britain has always done, we stole it.
>>752997283
>>752988470
This, but with an Irish reunification.
>>752995551
The fact that you lack human compassion
>>752997519
>Everything should be done through corporate force.
Which company held a gun to your head and made you buy the computer or phone your using to type here with? Because we should really do something if the computer or phone police are making you do this
>>752992391
>millionaires
What Americans are you talking to lmao. 1 economic class per generation is my goal my dude. Like my pa! Trailer park to a 2 story home on 5 acres, with a new truck to tow a race car and trailer, a motor home to stay in at the track, and a van for work come Monday in the driveway.
What's it like stuck in a flat?
>>752997437
Then you do something. Don't put that moral responsibility on others with force. YOU go out with your friends and family and do it.
>>752997283
I get it now, I understand you. For you, socialism can never work, or it must be imposed at gunpoint. And yet, Britain post-WW2 voluntarily chose to adopt a more or less social democratic model, with strong government safety nets, free healthcare etc. The Nordic countries went even further. And yet all of this was done willingly, freely and democratically, And these societies proved very successful, with high life expectancy, high literacy rates, reduced infant mortality etc. This makes you angry - how dare people a) voluntarily choose a social democratic model and b) make a success of it! The other option, of course, would maybe be to reexamine your definition of freedom, and why some societies have chosen to reject it.
>>752997660
>The fact that you lack human compassion
I lack human compassion by saying don't steal? You deserve an Oscar for best theatrics
This is a pretty funny thread
>>752997493
Huh? I've got a wife and children
>>752997543
I said I don't take vacations...
>>752997544
Only logical response based solely on my love of work, except communism doesn't give me the choice or opportunity to move up so no
B/ is on a new level of retarded ahaha
>>752986060
It isn’t. The price of food for example will be insane. I’m thinking in a couple of years I’ll rent out my uk house and move to asia, until the uk grows up. This is the damn Information Age, the cripplingly small-minded brexiteer bunch seem to think we can turn back time and live in the past, when the whole world has changed. I’m just glad I have a way to escape, I’ll enjoy watching the fools burn from afar. Fuck brexit. Morons.
>>752997724
There is an old saying about statists like you. You would see a boot smashing on someone's face. They would be screaming for help. You would proceed to go up to them and say "at least the face enjoys free education and medical care".
>>752997723
Theres not enough time dick head. People work 8 hours minimum a day. Welcome to the 21st century. Go back to misinterpreting philosophy and history you pseudo intellectual hack.
>>752994048
You do not begin to make a lick of sense and contradict yourself within 10 words
Congratulations on being /b/'s dumbest literate person of today
>>752997943
Are you an idiot? Seriously, are you stupid? They voted for it! They chose it!
>>752997677
Highly unlikely you move up one per generation for the sheer fact that Americans as a community are greedy and self entitled. So as your children are raised with the inevitable they will realize they need to do less because they can depend on parents.
>I'm a "millionaire"
Parents made massive amounts of money but made us live like peasants. I thought we were poor so I tried to make it through highschool. Didn't find out my parents clear 1.2M~/y until I was trying to get money for college. They made me live frugal to know what it was like for them and I appreciate what they did.
>>752997942
It will be the end of Cravendale, gonna have to get generic milk :(
>>752997983
I'm sorry but you cannot morally force people to do things you want to make yourself feel better. It's not right and it's criminally evil. Because you're too lazy to actually do anything. You sleep good at night knowing you robbed your neighbors of their own hard work just so you can have a pretty nice life. I wish I could be as cold as you. Someone who doesn't value human life. Then I could get free medical and vacations KEK
>>752991386
God, Americans suck so much shit. Kill yourself.
British Empire died in the same year Diana was assassinated and Tony Blair was elected. Coincidence?
>>752998006
>You do not begin to make a lick of sense and contradict yourself within 10 words
By saying I don't want to live at the expense of others? Maybe I should get into this racket and make all of you suckers pay for whatever stupid shit I want
>>752998042
Oh well as long as they voted for it. It must be okay right? No possible problems there
/s
>>752998237
I brofist my neighbour and he gets free healthcare and paid holiday too. The cunt at the end of the street gets it too.
>>752994182
and by cuck you mean?
really it is not communication unless you define terms, because at the moment all you are doing is asflagarding
>>752998275
Glad to see you showed up to the party. Have anything to add to the conversation? Come on Anon, we are all waiting for this insight
>>752998426
So, just to clarify, your definition of freedom is something that must be imposed on people, if they choose something else?
>>752998237
Eh, yes you can. Thats why Trump is in office even tho a majority don't want him to be.
>>752994742
except this is not the 1950's...
>>752994048
>>752998486
That's cute. Glad you guys can live at the expense of others. Sounds magical. As long as everyone else is a looter, it must be okay. Why not go rob your neighbors and do it directly? Since that's what you're doing
>>752998550
You must hate America
by being adults and having the world trade organization just set them up to trade at the same rates everyone else does with the EU and if you don't we in the US will sanction the EU and you really will have to suck muslim dick for your dinner
>>752998550
"Imposed freedom"? Sounds like Orwellian double talk to me. I think we spotted the tankie
>>752998662
I don't hate America, I lived there for two years, and I enjoyed a lot about it. However, as far as things like healthcare and its approach to poverty are concerned, it's fucked up.
>>752998649
It's a Robin Hood circle, you take and you give. You seem to miss one part of.
>>752998557
We have a different system set up. It's a constitutional republic. A direct democracy can do whatever it wants. If the mob demands..the people have spoken! There is still checks on everything he does. You can't just vote on things and they magically become laws. We have safe guards against things.
>>752998867
What about all the imposed rules and taxation without fair representation? The brainwashing of children in public schools? The fact you can't own slaves anymore?
>>752998942
Actually in the story Robin Hood was taking money back from the King that was unjustly taken. He over taxed the peasants. At this rate, you would be lucky to be taxed at 25% rate of medieval Europe kek. You seem to miss that one part
>>752999145
I almost think you're being serious with that last point. Maybe you are...
I have yet to see a single valid reason to leave the EU.
Loss of access to the World Market OR still follow the rules without any of the say as to what those are OR try and negotiate with a body that wants to make sure other countries realize leaving is a bad idea.
The logistics of leaving the open border policy is a nightmare, especially with the next door neighbors -staying- in the EU.
The economic benefits outweighed anything that was paid in and then some, without the subsidies paid to farmers alone from the EU and the tariffs that are set to be imposed on livestock after the exit is going to kill farmers.
And if we go for a softer Brexit, you'll be in the exact same situation -without- a say in anything passed through the EU.
What the fuck was the win in any of this?
>>752998973
Sounds like a system of forcing people to do what you want, which was the whole point. And do so morally because it how the real fucking world works
>>752999241
The fact that people like you exist amazes me.
They will follow on Americas coat tails and lose nothing while have a massive open market outlet with America.
>>752999241
Farage fucked off to america?
>>752999327
Even then though, there is no mandate that cannot be stopped. Anyone can be elected and stopped. There is systems in place with a federal system like America to drastically decrease the likelihood of government coercion. I still think the size and scope of the federal government is too large
>>752999417
Yea good luck with dream
>>752998646
aww for me? that's adorable! I'll hang it on my fridge
>>752999417
So somehow that 19% of trade is going to become a much bigger number because.. reasons? The EU makes up somewhere around 50% of the overall exports.
>>752999505
I will say that the reactions to the vote actually passing from the side that wanted it were hilarious. Even they didn't think people would be stupid enough to pass it.
