How feasible would it be to phase out all forms of taxation? What would society look like without any taxes?
>>752580287
Kys
>>752580287
Probably like Africa.
>>752580287
No government support at all.
The government gains a fair bit of cash from taxation so you'd be looking at a far weaker government.
>>752580287
"What would society look like without any taxes?"
Shitty considering the rate at which automation is destroying the job market/doubling of the workforce since the 50s.
Social policy in a capitalist framework is the future.
>>752580452
I'm all in favor of handing over services provided by the government over to the private sector. Free market bitches
>>752580601
>believes in the automation boogeyman
>>752580750
>witnessing a 30% drop in cashier/retail jobs in my area alone
The self checkout kiosks are turning the summer job hunting highschool students gay
People who think taxation is theft are always clueless about what money actually is.
>>752580287
No roads, no infrastructure, no police.
The rich would live lavish lives and could do anything they want with no repercussions because they own the police and infrastructure.
The poor would be squeezed of every last cent by the rich in order to use this infrastructure that would never be improved because there would be no profit.
Poor would die out, the rich rule. The government ceases to exist, laws cannot be upheld because police is run by private corporations so any crimes can be payed away.
Basically the world would become the USA
>>752580989
>using statistics to support an argument
Next you'll try to convince me that climate change is real
>>752581295
>No roads, no infrastructure, no police
No public roads, infrastructure or police. Those services would be handed over to the private sector, which operates more efficiently.
>The rich would live lavish lives and could do anything they want with no repercussions
Why shouldn't successful people enjoy a high standard of living?
What would the world look like?
No police, so crime rates would be high as fuck for those who can't afford protection.
No roads and infrastructure, what roads we have would decay over time and leave you with dirt roads, making import and export extremely limited.
No fire departments. They won't work for free you know.
No military, so if there's war... Well use your now non-existent 2nd amendment.
I realized I was wrong, crime rates will drop.
No taxes = no government = no laws = no crimes.
>>752581509
"Those services would be handed over to the private sector"
who would pay for it?
>>752580287
By living in a sovereign state you consent agree to follow it's laws. Of these laws are taxes. This is called the social contract. Read a book, faggot
>>752580287
Taxes should be as LOW AS POSSIBLE.
>>752581962
I didn't sign that contract.
The purest hypothetical result would be one person/family/company owning literally everything; but violent uprisings would occur first.
>>752580287
>What would society look like without any taxes?
Somalia, Antarctica etc
>>752581509
tolls. Tolls everywhere.
Rival watermen sabotaging competitors water-pipes. Hope you like the flavor of lead.
Justice you have to buy is called a hit-man. A hit-man is cheaper than keeping someone is prison.
>>752581509
Theres no profit in maintaingin roads and infrasturcutre. There would be no profit in policework, and if there were the owners of this privately owned police could do whatever they wanted with no repercussions.
By lavish I meant hedonistic.
>>752580287
Well a government without taxation is just a government that hyper inflates.
It gets its spending money somehow.
>>752580287
You receive goods and services from your taxes.
That is not theft.
If you don't pay for those goods and services then you are the one committing theft.
>>752582058
yet you use the services.
>>752580287
We evolved out of Libertarianism for a reason you stupid fucking basement dwellers.
>>752580606
So how do roads get built now? Who pays?
>>752582325
>We evolved from
>Doesn't explain jack shit
>>752581509
Why would 'the private sector' bother acquiring money via nonviolence with no police around anywhere?
If you have the resources to field a group of people with guns, why wouldn't you pay them to just take everything they find?
>>752580287
Honour killings, vigilantism, tribes, war.
>>752582058
You are free to leave.
I hear Antarctica has a tax plan you may enjoy.
>>752582408
The people give the money to the Goverment and the Government gives the money to a company to build the roads.
The government just serves as the middle man.
>>752582558
Yeah Switzerland's is even better.
>>752581509
>Why shouldn't successful people enjoy a high standard of living?
It's a matter of HOW lavish. Having a good life? That's fine. I expect work to be rewarded. People need a carrot to work towards.
But the ultra-rich? With mega yachts and pissing away millions on.... fancy eggs? It's just too wasteful. Spending that sort of extravagance when there are needy people is shameful. Think about rappers who made it big and buy stupid shit. Is that a good place for all those $20 out of the ghetto to go?
No matter how good a CEO does their job, do you think they deserve more than 100x the wage of the average joe punching hours on the clock? (Because it's typically more like 300x the average pay. Not minimum wage, the average, including all the rich dicks right below them)
>>752582566
I know how it works, you didn’t answer my question.
In s world with no taxes, no middle man, who decides what roads need to built? Who picks the company that will do the work? Who writes them the check?
>>752580287
A thief doesn't then go repair your roads and pay for your health insurance with that money.
But yes, of course a lot of your tax money is embezzled and there is no such thing as actual freedom within a country's borders.
>>752582434
Anon made the mistake of assuming you had at least a basic knowledge of history.
>>752582723
>Still didn't explain jack shit.
>>752580287
Without taxation you can't pay for a police force or military and without that society ceases to exist. So yeah, pretty much Somalia.
>>752582058
>Completely ignoring the first sentence
Reading isn't your strong suit, is it?
>>752581268
Jokes on them when they discover too late that
No Government = No Money
Have fun with your bartering lolbertarifags
Societies all over the world all independently invented government because libertarianism was brutal horror.
>>752582566
So you want the people to give the money to the company to build the road?
The company just gives the money to people who do the work. The company just serves as a middle man. Let's cut him out and have people give money right to the workers who build the road!
>>752582240
When did I sign up for those goods and services?
>>752582665
Companies would have to decide.
>>752582626
Switzerland is not tax free.
>>752582953
Lol wut
How?
Will CEOs have knife fights in pits over who gets the contracts?
>>752582862
Bitcoin is working on that you know....
And.... you can MAKE a monetary system out of god-damned near anything. Do prisons still operate on a cigarette based economy?
>>752582935
When you were born into a society. If you don't want it. You can leave what is considered society.
>>752580287
>"Goods and services "
>>752582953
>>752583026
And again, who writes the check?
Everyone living in the area is responsible for a certain amount? That’s a tax so no...hmmm...
>>752582935
Your parents signed you up when you were born. The same way they fed you and housed you and raised you up. Oh, I'm sorry, did you not sign up for that?
>>752583095
The police officer should be pointing a third hand with a gun at the thief in the top image.
>>752582935
When you got out of bed today found yourself not slave to a warlord.
>>752583131
How much government cock do you suck? I hope they bring back the draft just for you.
>>752582935
You didn't sign up to life either, so you may as well kill yourself right? Let us know how that goes.
>>752582805
*You have not met the minimum requirements to participate in this conversation.
Get an education and then come back or stay at the kiddie table while the grown ups are talking.
>>752583186
Is that right?
>>752581349
Kek
>>752583271
>>752583277
Check my dodectuples, fucker
>>752580287
Goverments and public services run on tax money, so you can go from there. As a whole we would be far less technologically advanced, as the current situation has lead into a possibility to really put things forward.
>>752582935
When you decided to use them you dunce.
You can decide to void that contract by leaving anytime you want. No one is forcing you to live here and use those services. But while you're here, using them, you gotta pay for them just like everyone else.
>>752583277
Compare the total miles of roads, size of electrical grids and waste water systems, military (all branches though navy is where most of the money goes), welfare systems, and all other social aid programs done by all the countries and you are starting to get enough data to have a conversation
>>752583424
That's funny, I see glaring similarities between that system and my ass
>>752583467
>>752583277
That said, of course the US is pissing away money.
Just not as much as that makes it seem
>>752583059
>You can leave what is considered society
Not if you are forced into society to even be present in any of it's self-reclaimed territories.
>>752583208
And we got the ad ho-minim! WOOOO! I WIN BITCHES!
later
>>752583537
>>752583540
Who do I have to fuck to get a producer's credit around here?
>>752583208
And this is when anon has realized he has lost the debate.
>>752580287
>How feasible would it be to phase out all forms of taxation?
not feasible. only a fat amiertard would ever think a perfect world is one without taxes. let's say everyone stopped paying taxes tomorrow in the US. the country would be finished in less than a couple of months, go broke and turn into a bigger shithole than it already is.
>>752583540
He's googleing ad hominem right now
>>752583106
EAsy, just make every road pay-to-use
>>752583537
Go be a mountain man
>>752583059
So if I start building a tiny dirt hut, the police will not raid my home, tear it down and demand symbol marked papers?
>>752583879
So all the companies have to work for free and know that in some number of years they will be paid the amount due?
And who picks the companies that will do it? Who decides where new roads will go?
>>752580287
You can't even live in the woods. Modern society is fucked.
>>752583879
How and who decides which company pays the up front costs?
They'll have to wait years, maybe decades to make their money back.
>>752584024
I know there was that case somewhere in Britain that a civilian made his own detour with a toll to pay for the costs. Something like that on a big scale would mean you'd be paying a toll every few miles though. It'd be better to have your tolls tallied up and payed out of your salary somehow. Everyone uses roads, so we could just make it mandatory and give it a fancy sounding name.
>>752580287
>>752583097
That chart is a load of bullshit.
Dollars are not dug out of the ground. A dollar is not a unit of wealth. When a dollar is created, it actually represents a unit of debt collectively owed by the citizenry of that country. Therefore the citizenry have a right to democratically determine rules for deploying those debt units. It would be theft to indebt the public without providing greater value. Government does not take money from taxpayers; it creates the money that citizens get to temporarily use. It is never your money; it is always backed by the state; which is why society trusts it to hold predictable value, and not fluctuate wildly like bitcoin, enabling stable commerce and investment and all the benefits of civilization you take for granted.
>>752584024
I was joking btw, but I’ll play devils advocate for a bit
As it is, companies have to produce a product before they start to make money. That’s a thing that already happens. And presumably whatever company wants to profit will build a road where it’s needed.
Can really answer who will decide who will get the contract, because the whole premise of privately owned roads is moronic, maybe CEO pitfights like someone suggested?
>>752584012
Who's land are you building the tiny dirt hut on?
Are you using any roads or electricity to transport the materials?
Will you be using a phone or internet service or any modern technological devices made from companies that received any government subsidies to develop their technologies?
>>752584269
You didn’t answer my question at all. Again.
Who pays upfront cost? How does the company get the materials? Who pays for the road to be built? The toll will barely cover maitanence on the road let alone the cost of it being built.
Also again, who decides on new roads? New highways and interstates? Who makes sure they meet up? Who decides traffic laws and how do they get paid?
Either answer all my questions this time or just stop.
>>752584367
How do they pay for the raw materials to make the product?
The labor of the workers?
>>752584269
>so we could just make it mandatory and give it a fancy sounding name.
You just described how taxes work.
>>752584460
I wasn't the guy you were quoting, I'm just pointing out that the system he's describing rounds back to tax anyway.
>>752582924
>ancap is actually communism
Really boogles my moogles.
>ITT Companies can build everything but roads.
If all the government did was build road's it would be the perfect government.
>>752584367
>joking
Yeah, your lack of basic understanding of infrastructure is hilarious
>>752584458
Just digging the dirt with my bare hands.
>>752580287
>How feasible would it be to phase out all forms of taxation?
Not feasible.
>What would society look like without any taxes?
Not great.
>>752584173
>>752584585
Banks will fork out a loan to a company of their choice to build a road
How the fuck do you think companies pay for materials and labour before they start producing in our current system?
You’re actually that clueless that I’m arguing against my own position
>>752582240
Not OP but seriously?
I don't need someone else to decide which goods and services that I should get after I have paid them under duress. I'd happily pay tolls for the roads that I need to use, and would volunteer to fight fires, protect the streets and fight the wars that I believe should be fought. I don't need a million bureaucrats leaching off of me, forcing me to take only what they have to offer, sending me to wars that I don't feel are necessary, and throwing me in prison if I refuse to pay for the "goods and services" that they are shoving down my throat.
>>752584789
Last time I checked, education has so much extra fees that you need to slave your entire life to make up for that apparent costly information.
>>752584852
So banks will decide what companies will make what roads where and be in charge of all the logistics involved?
I don’t think you should call anyone clueless...
>>752583208
>bring back
It would seem someone isn't old enough to have signed up the mandatory draft registration documents.
>>752584866
If you don't like America maybe you should leave?
Before government was properly established in the USA, there were company towns. It didn't work out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
>>752584789
See >> 752584866
>>752581268
This is a understatement
>>752584769
On who's land and do you plan on just sitting in it until you rot away or do you plan to leave the dirt hut and venture into society ever?
I'm sure there's empty places in northern Alaska you can do this in without being noticed, but you'll have to use goods and services to get there.
>>752584761
What are you even trying to say? Pay to use roads are feasible? Companies placing roads wherever the fuck they want will work?
Please explain how anything I’ve ‘suggested’ will actually work
>>752585027
That's because I'm Canadian and not 70 years old.
>>752585030
Who said I was in America?
>>752584852
They get PAID. They literally get paid. Some up front and the rest when it’s done. You don’t need a loan for a gov contract. The gov pays for it all
>>752585018
You propose how it would be reasonable then, I’m happy with the government taking care of it
>>752584852
Are you being serious or are you trolling?
>>752585171
That’s been my position the whole time.
All I’ve done is point out how insane trying to do anything else is. Are you an idiot?
>>752584866
That's how society works.
You're free to leave to Antarctica if you don't want to live in a society.
I don't think you'll last very long though.
Say goodbye to shitposting on 4chan, that's for sure.
>>752585036
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike
It says the Pullman company had the allegiance of the US National Guard.
>>752585336
>If someone doesn't steal shit from you it's not a society
Well Golly Gee.
>>752584866
You are choosing to use the internet right now.
Taxes helped create all the technologies you are using right now.
>>752585058
I saw it, but he's wrong. Trying to phrase it as "goods and services" was a stupid way of putting it, but their head was in the right place.
Private roads are incredibly stupid. The point of a business is to make money, not help out common people. What happens when the roads owned by Walmart decide to block off all paths connecting to Target? Putting trust in the government sucks, but it's a hell of a lot better than exploitive businesses.
Rando civilians trying to fight fires and administer vigilante justice with no training is fucking stupid.
Military service has been voluntary for a few decades in most western nations.
>>752585385
Thinking taxes are inherently stealing just shows you really don’t understand government or taxes.
>>752580287
Taxes are anti-inflationary in that they literally extinguish money. Expect Weimar hyperinflation in their absence.
>>752585468
Explain how it's not stealing.
>>752585468
Or stealing...
>>752585468
Or money, for that matter.
>>752585496
You use roads and the electrical grid and water and etc etc etc
This are paid for with taxes
There is your most basic easy to understand explanation
>>752585468
>Taking stuff from you, and imprisoning if you don't pay isn't stealing it's just government!
>>752585559
>>752585608
Okay then I'll only pay the taxes that go towards roads and utilities.
>>752580387
underrated and /thread. I'm sorry i came so late.
>>752585082
If I'm not a citizen of society, why would I have to abide to any laws enforced onto citizens?
I build my dirt hut in the woods, any woods, start growing some vegs and drink water by the rivers.
Maybe someone will join me and make it sustainable enough.
Why would someone interfere with anyone who lives this way?
>>752585385
No one is stealing anything from you.
You are the thief if you benefit from society and do not pay for it.
>>752585675
You live in a nation protected by a military, with public schools and a police force so tack that on as well
And public transportation
And welfare
And Medicare
And disability
And etc etc
>>752585754
What if it's something I don't benefit from?
>>752580287
Someone's gonna be stealing your shit no matter what you do.
This isn't really a great argument against government.
>>752585581
You help out society a bit by handing out a percentage of what you produce and in turn, society makes sure that you don't fucking die.
If you refuse to help out society, society makes sure that your life is as miserable as socially acceptable.
>>752585346
That's libertarianisim. The rich buy armies. It's ironic that everything libertarians complain about is worse under libertarianism. Almost everyone is less free.
>>752585789
Which do you not benefit from?
>>752585837
>>752585778
>>752585754
>>752585878
What if I don't want my government to wage a war of aggression against other nations?
>>752585496
The things that you use in your daily life cost money.
Being asked to pay a minuscule percent of the costs that it takes to create and maintain those things that you use on a daily basis is not theft.
When you go to the grocery store and they ask that you pay for the food, do you consider that robbery?
>>752585729
If you commit an act of war by conquering the land owned by a nation state, expect armed men to physically remove yourself and your earthly possessions.
>>752585916
Then protest
But you will likely end up in jail if not paying taxes is part of your protest
Maybe start a movement and you will be a martyr. Change things.
Otherwise move to another country
It's really simple actually.
>>752585927
>The entire world is an grocery store
>Pay or face the consequences
>>752585916
If you lived in a democracy of some sort, you'd get to voice your opposition to that decision by voting against it.
>>752586043
Okay. We'll have a vote every time the government wants to go to war.
>>752585789
There is not a day that has gone by in your life that you have not benefited from taxation.
>>752586005
Income tax is not the only tax.
The US has always had taxes
>>752586104
Since the US is a republic, they technically vote for people to vote for them. So those people will vote in war. And they do
>>752586190
I've never voted for a war ever.
>>752586229
>>752586190
Citizens to vote on decisions in a republic. They vote on people to vote on decisions.
>>752580287
the problem all those who oppose government don't see is that the point of government, the sole reason for government to exist at least in theory, is to manage the state/country so that the people living there live as well as they can. The government's purpose is to serve the people. Now this has been abused many times, but still, no matter how much you "muh MONEY, they STAELIN!" this point isn't refutable.
The point of a corporation is to grow. You think that without regulations these companies would gladly give things back to the people? Perhaps they might provide sustenance level for people, but give it 50 years and we'll have a dystopia like the ones in the movies sure enough. Now that would actually be cool, but i wouldn't want my kids to grow up like that.
Tl; dr - point of government is to redistribute wealth and serve the people. Point of companies is to grow, just like cancer.
>>752586276
Citizens don’t*
>>752585916
Well, if you live in a somewhat democratic country, you get a chance to choose someone to represent your interests in government. In fact, you can choose to run yourself.
>>752586104
Sucks to not have political power, doesn't it?
>>752586229
What part of republic do you not understand?
>>752586116
Do not mistake slavery with exploitation.
>>752583504
How much does your ass spend in a year for scientific research?
Face it, if there were no governments, we'd not have internet nor any modern form of communication at least not in global scale.
>>752586305
>>752586276
If you don't like it, just vote for another party
>Only real options are A and B
Gee really makes me think.
>>752586005
As long as the US has been a country, Americans have had to pay taxes.
Income tax is not the only tax.
If you're over the age of 12, you should already know this.
>>752580287
At least the taxation figure shoots the black people robbing the the theft guy. Dead niggers are expensive
>>752586495
You basically avoided his point entirely.
>>752586286
That sounds like if we need a government, we need cancer since government relies on corporations.
Is this how people get cancer?
>>752586599
Shit got expensive. Especially those corporate subsidies and economic care packages.
>>752586681
>. Especially those corporate subsidies and economic care packages.
More theft.
>>752586599
No, the picture totally ignored all other taxes and makes no true point. It is true information put forward in a way to purposely mislead
>>752586599
so you're saying the whole burden of taxation should be on the employer's shoulders? interesting idea. I wonder what that would do to the private sector... (also, not the fag you're arguing with but i just butted in)
>>752586660
>since government relies on corporations
>>752586022
Think of the goods and services that you use every day that taxation has provided as a bag of groceries. By living in society, you have already had your groceries bagged and in fact you've already consumed those groceries before even leaving the store. If you leave that store without paying for those groceries, there will be consequences. The same is true if you consume what taxation provides without paying for it. Not a single day in your life have you not consumed what taxation provides for you, so you either pay for consuming what others have provided for you or you face the consequences.
>>752586660
It’s more like corporations are taking over government. Government doesn’t need them in theory, but a system that keeps them out of government hasn’t really been devised
Imagine it this way. If the economic drive was your body, the brain would be things like retirement plans, public education funds, whatnot. The lungs would be systems for freshening up the system, things like trade. Liver is things like the consumer protection act, ETC.
You ask "what is tax"?
Tax is your heart. Figure it out.
>>752586005
The trade-off was slavery and indentured servitude.
And still about half the population couldn't afford to send their children to school.
And most cities had no sewers, creating mass sickness.
And lack of regulation caused the dust bowl and great depression.
Yeah, let's go back to that time.
>>752586761
>>752586743
He's saying before 1913 there was no income tax.
>>752586852
Inb4 the organs should just do their jobs
>>752586814
Tell that to the commies, the fascists, the natsoc's, the monarchists, etc.
>>752586229
I'm beginning to think you're not old enough to vote.
Have you ever taken a civics class in your life?
>>752586660
government does not rely on corporations per definition. It just happens to have been corrupted by the cancer since that what cancer does - spread. The corporations benefit greatly from this, but i'll come back to refuting your point: government does not have to rely on corporations, it relies on the people. The fact that (and this is mostly in America) corporations have infected the government rather speaks for the argument of having an independent government rather than an infected one.
>>752586681
As expensive as vast amounts of military equipment and weapons?
>>752586907
>Have you ever taken a civics class in your life?
No. That's not a thing.
>>752586874
The picture is implying that income tax covered roads and all things in the picture. We fucking know it’s about income tax.
It’s implying there was no tax before 1913. Take things in context before you try corrections
>>752586907
>Vote for representatives
>Party A and Party B are the exact same
>What the fuck
>>752586472
>In fact, you can choose to run yourself.
^Did you just gloss over that part?
>>752586874
exactly, so if there was no income tax for the private citizen, who was paying the taxes? The government? That doesn't sound right. Then it must mean either the employers or... where did the money come from? exports? Explain. Who payed for all those things?
>>752587031
>>752587026
I have to wonder if the government is paying you to do this.
>>752586920
Especially those. The military industrial complex is the biggest parasite feeding on america right now.
>>752586599
Umm, no I didn't.
>>752586905
Yeah once we aren’t talking in a thread solely about capitalism and taxation lol
Pointless comment
>>752580601
Oh look, this faggot has a normal number of chromosomes. Fuck off back to college nigger.
>>752587026
>implying that it isn't what they want to you to believe
>>752587031
You paid taxes on goods and services THAT'S IT.
>>752581509
>get robbed
>only have silver level police insurance (tm)
>thief has gold level police insurance (tm) which he can maintain by being a thief
>get no justice
Seems legit
>>752587063
Do you really not know there have always been taxes in the US...?
>>752587063
>still no explanation or refutation of the point
i'm seriously curious since i'm not an american.
>>752587063
Well, considering that he's most likely thinks government is providing goods and services in his favor, it sure must be so.
>>752587214
>>752587171
You stupid cunt. Income tax was not a thing in the United States until 1913.
>>752587145
so imagine the tax on goods and services you'd need to sustain modern day society. You think this would keep things profitable for certain businesses? You'd need a whole restructuring of society. Basically we're talking apocalypse, since all the poorfags would go to war.
>>752582626
they wouldnt let you in as they have a no retards policy
>>752586005
Just for example-
School teachers had to be single, were not allowed to date, did all the schools' janitorial work (according to a school marm's contract in the Museum Kansas History).
There were no paved roads outside of city limits. Stagecoach from Kansas City to Topeka took 30 hours, then train took two to five hours, not including time to get to the station and waiting if everybody wasn't on schedule.
>>752587270
In Canada Income Tax came in 1917 to support the war effort it was supposed to be temporary.
>>752587260
>name calling
see, what you should've done is do what >>752587145 did. he actually came with an explanation.
>>752586874
Income tax is one of many forms of taxation.
There were many forms of taxation before 1913.
OP never said that only income tax is theft, but that all taxation is theft.
You are moving the goalpost.
>>752587260
Yeah? Other taxes existed though
Lots of them
Was almost a civil war over taxes in the US after the revolutionary war
People were pissed they were getting taxed after winning a war to not be taxed lol
>>752587352
I'm the same guy as that other poster.
>>752587351
see >>752587312
he knows what he's talking about.
>>752580287
Without taxes, at best we'd be taken over by whichever foreign government has nearest standing army, at worst we'd be taken over by a multi-national corporation and turned into serfs/slaves with no human rights.
>>752586944
>>752587406
>>752587356
>>752587387
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you love income tax?
>>752587396
good on you! +1
>>752587434
I'm Canadian and not 100 years old.
This isn't a a thing in school now.
>>752580287
Go here, where all you libertardians belong.
>>752587433
>This is what statists honestly believe
>>752586993
You are free to create your own party and run yourself. No one is forcing you to vote for party A or party B. It just so happens that we have a largely uninformed electorate that keeps voting mainly for party A or party B. That's the populaces fault, not the government's.
>>752587544
>It's not the government's fault they're so terrible.
>>752580387
This
>>752587458
i'm pragmatical. Aand sorta leaning to the left, so you might wanna shoot me right there. If you really think a system without taxation would work i believe you're either very young or very rich. perhaps you're donald trump... I really don't wanna go ad hominem on you but how can you even believe that a society would work without taxes?
>>752587595
People would pay taxes on goods and services.
>>752587458
What?
Just pointing out other taxes have always existed. Income tax makes since as a concept though. I think I like sales tax a little more as a concept
>>752587458
If it helps diminish the power of the ruling class and prevent cretins from buying their way out of being equal before the law, I'm 200% for it.
>>752587063
Out of curiosity, how old are you and what is the highest level of education you have attained so far?
>>752587129
>they
>>752587636
Each has its purpose. The advantage of income tax is that it can be used to keep private actors from becoming more powerful than the law itself, which is something we see today.
>>752580287
>What would society look like without any taxes?
>>752587627
would lead to extreme differences in society. So we're basically talking medieval times feudalism in a form of "free market". The oligarchs could fix the price on any goods the people needed and we'd basically have a new form of slavery. Like i said: the point of a corporation is to grow, and if possible to stay at the top.
>>752587145
So you admit that taxation existed in the US before 1913 (even though you're incorrect about that being the only tax that existed)?
>>752587775
OF COURSE I FUCKING ADMIT IT YOU DUMBFUCK BOOMER.
>>752586276
The ruling class would like that, wouldn't they.
>>752587026
>implying that the party system combined with restrictive ballot access measures isn't effectively a veto on normal citizens gaining office without the hand up of a jew, and isn't intended exactly as such
meanwhile, in the real world...
>>752587260
This discussion has never been about income tax alone.
You're moving the goalpost.
>>752587627
wait i must admit i've been missing your point. Someone derailed me into talking about government and corporations rather than taxation. You may ignore my previous answer which is >>752587757. Sorry!
I still think this would lead to immense differences in society, unless the taxation on goods and services was made percentual on income or something... Otherwise we'd have great stratification in society.
>>752587858
What?
That’s literally the way it is today
The US is a republic
>>752587396
>I'm the same guy as that other poster.
>that other poster
>other poster
wut?
>>752586084
...and they don't.
>>752586229
You've never voted, period. You're not of legal age yet.
>>752587929
I actually don’t think there has ever been a true democracy.
Would take too long to do anything
>>752587458
How did you even come up with that thought process?
We're just trying to inform you on how the real world works.
Life is give and take anon.
We'd all like to receive free stuff but that isn't practical in our society.
Shit costs money and someone has to pay for it.
>>752588139
Until we automate it all.
Lots of ways it could go after that
Hope we get it figured out soon
>>752587542
What would prevent them?
>>752587491
Maybe you're not in a high enough grade yet.
If you're not in all remedial classes you should have at least one by the time you graduate, though I suspect you just haven't been paying attention in class.
>>752588125
>implying that doing "something" is usually better than doing "nothing"
Sometimes, the less done, or the more mechanically and transparently it's done, the better.
>>752587929
>is
>implying that the US needs to continue to exist in its current form for some reason
ok
>>752588139
Democrat shill spotted
>>752588125
Switzerland seems alive and well.
>>752587582
There are many political parties, all of which you are free to vote for. If there are no parties that represent your interests, then you are free to create your own. No one is stopping you. In fact, I'm encouraging you to do so. As an independent, I want as many choices as possible.
>>752588342
Just think about the logistics of a true democracy for one second.
There is a reason it has never been done on any kind of nation scale. It isn’t practical
>>752587819
So then what is your point because whatever it is, it doesn't have anything to do with the OP's question.
>>752588377
Switzerland has a mass vote of the whole population for every single bureaucratic decision?
>>752588434
I guess the decisions I get to vote on every other week aren't real then.
>>752588518
>>752588521
I don’t know, maybe you could give some info. At all.
>>752588373
Nope.
Guess again.
Just trying to explain how taxes work, I'm sorry you're having a hard time understanding.
>>752588521
You vote on trade? All foreign policy?
>>752588377
You clearly don't understand the politics of Switzerland.
>>752588434
Logistics? You mean, like instant authenticated communication to fill out a ballot every couple or three weeks, and the ability to do instant research and literally b& shills from society? The reason it hasn't been tried is because ruling classes have no role in them and they are highly resistant to their privileges being eliminated.
>>752580287
ok, now, you spend the 20,000 man hours it takes to repave a few miles of city streets. get all your sovereign citizens together and do it. i want it done in three weeks and you don't get paid.
>>752588637
>how taxes work
Sounds more like a Pete Peterson shill trying to sell austerity.
What is a sovereign currency issuer, then?
>>752582924
And how do you make sure there are no corporations? There's no police force to enforce any laws.
nigger
>>752588518
>>752588672
>>752588676
I got to vote on joining the EU, on buying new (shitty) fighter jets, on joining that american trade agreement (that fucked over most of the EU), on imposing quotas of immigration, on forbidding the construction of mosque towers and a shitload of other issues, both nation wide and canton specific. Last one was about not destroying the single hospital in my hometown so I suppose our direct democracy works well enough.
>>752587458
It's incredibly easy to have your extremely ignorant, limited viewpoint when it comes to taxes, because in order to have it, all you have to do is be angry. To be in favor of taxes, you have to actually be able to think about the big picture, and look beyond something that's effecting you personally. However, in order to do that, you'd have to not be a self-centered little asshole. You have to consider other people, and society as a whole, and how taxes fund not just the things you disagree with, but the basic things you take for granted, and have been taking for granted every single day of your life without ever considering who pays for them or where they come from. The answer is taxes. Everyone pays for them. It's what taxes are for. Is the system perfect? No, because it's run by humans and humans aren't perfect. But it works just fine, and I'm perfectly willing to have a portion of my paycheck taken out to pay for the things I use every day. You know... because I'm capable of rational thought. The great thing about taxes though, is that we ALL have to pay them.... the people that are fine with them, AND the people that hate them. It's great, because it FORCES you to contribute to society, even if you're intellectually incapable of understanding why taxes are necessary, like you.
So yeah, you're never going to be in favor of taxes. All you see is money coming out of your check and you say "OMG ROBBERY". Ignorance is bliss. Just keep yelling, it's all you can do. Don't even bother considering other viewpoints, you've already made up your tiny little mind. Oh hey, the next time it starts to rain, maybe you should go outside and start yelling at that too. I mean, it's getting you wet, and that's annoying. Screw the fact that the land around you needs the occasional replenishment of water for... you know... the plants to live and shit, you shouldn't have to deal with the inconvenience! It forces you to go buy an umbrella! ROBBERY!
>>752581509
The efficiency of the private sector is solely off of profit. What incentive would they have to keep these public benfiting policies alive besides to form their own government and annex pre-nuke fallout?
>>752588892
The eternal clash of collectivism against individualism. At the end of the day, two men with sticks beat one man with a stick, always.
>>752588870
>>752588870
You have a House of Representatives.
They vote and make some decisions
You are not a true democracy
Sorry friend
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
>>752589223
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
>>752580287
dont tax work, tax spending only
>>752589063
They come up with issues to vote on and so do any citizen that could gather enough signatures. Nothing wrong with the government doing its job of informing the people of problems that need fixing.
>>752589309
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
>>752589349
So you already knew it wasn’t a true democracy.
Every citizen would be allowed to vote on every single thing.
That’s not the case in Sweden.
Doesn’t mean Sweden is bad
>>752588892
>willing to have a portion of my paycheck taken out to pay for the things I use
Not him but you're wrong on income taxes. Income tax (at least in the US) services the interest on the national debt to a quasi-private, for profit bank. Their 3 letter agency that enforces this is the largest creditor on the planet. Fail to pay and they crush you into dust mafia style.
State, local and sales taxes are a different story and you've got a good point.
>>752589223
>>752589309
>>752589388
Brilliant!
>>752589466
>sweden
I'll track you down and forcefeed you ballot boxes.
>>752589654
...what?
>>752580287
schools beeing privatised:
> mcdonalds sponsors biology-class, everyone gets told that burgers are good for health.
> mathclass gets sponsored by walmart and the only thing pupils learn is how walmart has the cheapest prices.
> history is sponsored by some film-studios which are run by jews, everyone only learns jewish history from now on.
have fun in this world...
>>752589701
I get triggered when my beautiful nation gets confused with the other 3rd world european country.
>>752581509
>>752581945
>>752581825
what is protection money?
tolls for highways made by logistic companies
Fire department, what is insurance and security companies, what do they provide?
>>752589796
Well maybe you should say where the fuck your are from, idiot
Only nation that responded was Sweden
Absolutely impossible to phase out taxation. It would simply change who was the toll keeper for roads, schools, firefighting, and defense. These are basic services that every society needs, so why not use democracy as collective bargaining to protect citizens from monopolies and price gouging?
>>752589862
hes swiss
>>752580287
Spend a week in economics 101, you fucking idiot.
>>752584594
Underrated
>>752582862
Government=/=State
>>752584594
>>752590019
>reading comprehension
He was mocking the ancap retard. Why do I have to spell it out to you?
>>752589775
>history is sponsored by some film-studios which are run by jews, everyone only learns jewish history from now on
>ww2 history is centered around the real holocaust that really happened and only targetted jews and how dark, insane and evil hitler was
really makes you think
>>752590089
Correct, but also know that Government =/= Federal. Government is just the communing of a society to collectively decide on important decisions, federal and state are just specifications of the kind of government
>>752590238
Who says the holocaust only targeted Jews?
>>752590238
>and only targetted jews
No one says that.
>>752580287
Taxation isn't theft, though. It's agreed upon by elected representatives.
Taxes are an investment in society reflected by what voters want. We want roads, schools, hospitals, and safe communities.
The alternative is anarchy or an unworkable system of tolls with no accountability(with the money still being extracted).
Democracy is one of the few checks against the wealthy and powerful in our society.
>>752584300
Nice thing about the altcoin USD is it can actually be used as a currency instead of an investment. You can spend it on things without worrying about what it'll be worth in the future. It also won't randomly fluctuate in value by hundreds of dollars every month.
>>752580287
Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb5ivvcTvRQ
>>752591265
>he literally thinks a republic is a democracy
this is literal cuckery
>>752590238
>yfw WW2 non-Jew deaths outweigh Jew deaths 10 fold
>yfw iPhones autocapitalize Jew because Jews run the fucking world.
The holocaust was exaggerated, if not completely fake.
>>752591830
>imagine having to pay completely for every public service you'd ever need every time you needed it
Man you're smart. Taxes are da devil!
>>752591830
>The fat neckbeard scans /b/ for victims of his impressive intellect
>He spots someone saying elected representatives are democratic
>He revels in the fact it isn't technically a democracy, because no direct democracy has ever existed on earth
>He points out that eviscerating fact
>Calling them a cuck seals the argument and asserts his alpha status
>Another day where suicide is avoided concludes the now smug neckbeard
>>752592355
>he literally thinks that the mode of government in the US depends on which of the two falsely-branded parties is in power
You just keep ass-u-ming I'm not a commie who wants the right wing of the democrat party amputated and fed to dogs.
>>752592547
>he thinks that being submissive to a lying, cheating ruling class isn't cuckery
you gotta get through your day somehow, sport
>>752580287
It's not. It would look like hell.
No police, no army, no laws, no roads, no public school, no private property, no monetary system.
Eventually some people would organize and create an equivalent of government and taxes.
>>752580287
Communism answer all the questions.
No taxes, no money, government decides about roads, education and "property".
No private property.
>>752592699
>No police, no army
>no laws
>no private property
That's the good news
>no public school
>no monetary system.
Mixed blessing
>>752590238
There are far more movies focusing on battles and the heroic aspect of 'murricans than movies focusing on the holocaust or even mentioning it.
>>752592755
>he is actually spreading the vicious lie about communism being a statist ideology
Which is it, paid trolling or self-assigned? Or both, which makes you a democrat shill?
>>752592817
Good news for whom?
In a world like that useless basement dwellers like you would be the first to die.
Transportation infrastructure could be paid for by the customers via fee.
Same with police, firefighters, courts.
You need some level of taxation for providing military, diplomacy, intelligence, and general public administration.
Preferably a sales tax, head tax, poll tax and/or tarriffs.
>>752591594
Except that's wrong
Dollar goes up
Dollar goes down
You can't explain that shit
Also US is trillions in debt
USD is theoretically not even 0, it would be negative in value
1$ usd should be 1$ owed to another country
The only reason this isnt the case is nuclear bombs aimed at everybody
>>752586116
>implying that a workers boss isn't taking rent out of the income that their labor generates
>implying that the truest form of tax isn't the unearned wealth generated by the control of capital
>implying the "free market" can exist without a government actively breaking up companies before they form monopolies
>implying neoliberal capitalism = classical capitalism
>>752592869
OP's asking the stupid question of absolutely no taxes.
Communism is an answer. It's a bad one but the question was worst.
And what's with democrats? They're not even close to be left they're just not far-right.
>>752593142
Off to gulags
Threadly reminder
>>752593142
>people who support communism
>>752593188
>muh genetic fallacy
>he thinks zionists are not anti-communist
Stay Birchy, useful idiot.
>>752593273
Kill yourself, neoliberal.
Somalia would basically be ANCAPISTAN if it wasn't inhabited by the n(Fine African gentlemen)iggers
>>752592631
I'm sorry, anon. I assumed you were some crazy libertarian fascist who thought the absence of direct democracy somehow justified tearing apart our remaining publicly funded institutions/services.
When Democrats(who would be rightwing in any other country) are still being called socialists, you gotta start somewhere.
>>752593438
Services, no, indeed I wish public goods would be expanded and fuck the eminent domain clause, but institutions certainly deserve a good hard look to see whether they're privileging a small section of society at public expense.
Not that any of that is at all likely to happen without direct citizen power, see Gilens and Page 2014.
>still being called socialists
I suspect this is the right faction of the establishment dems trying to justify to themselves and one another that there are reasons not to move left other than the lifestyles to which the retail political ecosystem has become accustomed.
also saving that shit, thanks anon
>>752593073
>Dollar goes up, dollar goes down, you can't explain that
Hm, no inflation has been pretty stable for last couple of years. Around 2%. (Is this a Bill O'Reilly tide joke?)
>US is trillions in debt, USD is theoretically not even worth 0
Um, there's far more wealth in the United States than the US debt, you do know that? The GDP is basically on par alone. That doesn't even include US net worth.
> 1$ usd should be 1$ owed to another country
Every developed country also has debt, and many have currencies worth more per dollar amount or less. Currency exchange rate exists.
>The only reason this isn't the case is nuclear bombs aimed at everybody
Ah yes, because everyone is clamoring for North Korean won. People invest in countries and their bonds because of stability. A country with lower risks of defaulting or massive societal distributions, like a coup d'état, are more enticing.
Bitcoin looks like a good investment, but it will always have problems as a currency so long as fluctuates so much. You don't want to buy a pizza online with an amount of money that might double in a month.
