I'm an atheist. Debate me.
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
I'm an atheist. Debate me.
>>748193060
No, we are in agreement
>>748193813
Debate me anyways.
>>748193060
I am also an Atheist, but I will pretend to be a Muslim, so that I can have a virgin and submissive woman worth having as a wife.
I'm Jewish but I pretend to be atheist in order to undermine western cultural traditions.
>>748194378
>>748194221
I don't argue with Jews or Muslims, only Christians. Sorry.
>>748194378
I knew it!
>>748193060
I am an atheist, and also a vegan.
>>748194378
hehehehe lol
I think we can all agree that Vanilla is the best icecream.
Are nihilists just depressed atheists?
>>748194592
And who is arguing ???
>>748193060
fried eggs, over easy; are clearly and vastly superior to scrambled eggs.
>>748194828
agreed
>>748193060
Why are we here? and why do people die?
>>748194988
I bet you think of the warm yolk as fresh pumped jizz down your throat too. Scrambled eggs are the manly way to eat your eggs; you force the salt and pepper into the folds of eggs whether it wants it or not.
>>748193060
Have you taken acid yet and remembered who you really are?
prove that the concept of science exists outside the human mind.
if so, please give at least one example of a non-human creature using science.
if not please explain where science come from
>>748193060
Azathoth created the universe prove me wrong.
>>748193890
Heinze is better than French's ketchup, faggot. Debate me.
>>748194839
Kind of. We also believe morality is just something people created to keep ourselves from being dicks. as in it's wrong to kill someone because that's what i know.. but is it really?
>>748195241
Scrambled eggs is like eating an abortion and they're dry as or too runny to be actually enjoyable. What are you autistic?
No, you are not an atheist, you want to discuss about atheism so inside you, you are an insecure christian believer that doesn't want to be ashamed of say it
>>748195808
Well, if we talk about Lovecraft, i'd love to debate about the location of R'lyeh and the Bloop sound
>>748194828
chocolate, fite me
>>748195808
I can't
>>748193060
i'm agnostic.
pineapple is an acceptable pizza topping
>>748194839
yes
>>748195808
>>748197551
Easy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
>>748197293
>>748195808
Its a big hoax or not?
>>748195670
animals in the wild have been observed using simple machines.
>>748193060
If god isn't real then who cucked joseph?
Dumbass
Atheism is just a way for idiots to feel intelligent. The semi-smart ones only know how to repeat talking points, not how actually conceptualize anything
>>748193060
Traps Are Gay
>>748193060
Explain angels and demons and how we can associate with them?
Why do demons get agitated when the name of Jesus is spoken?
>>748198461
Agnosticism is my city
>>748198461
fuck u i watch rick and morty they said god is not real unless you dumb becuz evrithing iz stupid and nuttin' matterz
Explain how my mom had cancer and i prayed for her every night and she magically recovered?
Pro tip: you can't
>>748193060
Can you prove a negative?
>>748198982
that's prolly why he's an atheist, einstein
>>748198798
Seconding.
Possibly the only way to advance as a species.
>>748199049
Because science says otherwise?
debate this
>>748195241
how did you manage to make scrambled eggs rapey? I'm impressed
>>748193060
Me too!
>>748199170
hello cancer
>>748193060
Why?
>>748199164
strawman. :)
if there is a god, prove it.
>>748199324
I can't, so I don't believe in one.
The thing is, you can't prove there isn't a God either.
Both based on scientific rules
>>748193060
I believe in God and the teachings of Christ, but do not agree with most of those who try and preach about either.
I have no idea what Church could possibly convince any one to tithe it. if they would bother to read the book.
>>748199087
Is it just me, or does atheism sound just as unintelligent as theism?
>>748199422
lack of evidence isn't proof of anything. be less dumb. k, theeenks
>>748199486
No, everyone who became an atheist agnostic was because atheist became a religion of belief
>>748199547
Exactly.
I'm glad you understand
>>748199688
so what exactly are you arguing?
>>748198741
Angels those loyal to God but too arrogant and in need of humility and mercy.
Demons are Angels who were deceived by Lucifer in to a rebellion.
There are another group who could not choose sides.
All three are eventually born in to the flesh just as you were.
To learn the same lessons you are now learning.
>>748199589
>became
atheism: the lack of belief in a "higher power"
I'm sure it didn't change
>>748199719
Since you agreed, I'm not arguing.
you're going to hell fag
>>748199796
When they are certain without proof(as religion), it changed.
>>748193060
*tips*
[spoiler]This is all I need to post to win this argument. Atheists BTFO[/spoiler]
>>748199815
explain what you meant by this
>The thing is, you can't prove there isn't a God either.
Both based on scientific rules
>>748194828
Fuck you! Vanilla is worst... It's kiwi that's best.
>>748199881
atheism is atheism it has a definition it couldn't have changed
>>748199977
That a negative can't be proven.
>>748200060
As feminism, the definition can't be changed that easily.
Though the ideology has
>>748199589
You don't have to be both atheist and agnostic, agnostic will suffice, just saying. I don't want to get into details about how stupid atheism and theism is, don't wanna sound like a broken record. But yea atheism is basically a religion.
>>748196635
More so for keeping balance and equilibrium. Killing rarely achieved anything. The only problem in non violence is that it only works if everyone follows it. This idea can be expanded to morality as well with a few adjustments.
>>748200066
ok. guess i've had a few too many.
>>748200162
there's no ideology
If you don't believe in a supreme power or being you are atheist, donezo
>>748200240
I agree except the first part.
Agnosticism has two categories which are quite technical.
Atheist agnostic or theist agnostic, which all words are from my country, Greece.
You agree?
>>748200389
Why is there agnosticism then?
Atheism is too certain of things and that's against scientific rules
>>748200552
Science involves no belief
Atheism is a belief
For example,
Science has the theory of evolution
A person may believe that the theory of evolution is correct
Science doesn't give a fuck and still calls it a theory
>personally I believe the theory of evolution is correct
That's what atheism is like
>>748200424
There's more layers of agnosticism. A strong agnostic would be called an atheist agnostic, a somewhat more neutral agnostic is called a weak/open agnostic or empirical agnostic.
Personally I'm a empirically agnostic antireductionistic epistemologist.
>>748193060
Actual argument, not a troll
Religion has always been for the weak. People who are too scared to admit to the reality of death (thus every religion having their own afterlife), people who are too scared to think for themselves (thus every religion making strict rules to follow), and people who are scared of at the idea of themselves being bad (thus religions making simple examples of good and bad people).
Religion keeps stupid and weak people in check. If all the weak minded idiots suddenly realized that their religion was false, what would happen? I think religion is important to keep, for now. Like a fence for livestock.
>>748200810
Exactly my fellow faggot.
Belief, opinion, etc.
Atheism can't be sure and by the way I gotta say that a theory, is more than just believing in something, it is rooted in rules. Theories, the word, is used differently in science
Richard Dawkins is a famous, modern, self-proclaimed atheist. He is also the
person who came up with the concept of memetics, but this does not seem to
have saved him from going down a typical atheist path. He sees the pain and
suffering that hosting religious ideologies has caused in the world, and it angers
and saddens him. He sees the "myth" of God as the root cause of this suffering,
and decides to fight it. This is a brave choice to make. However, he allows the
ideological construct of God to define his fight against it, and misses any real
opportunity to reduce the bad effects that the idea of God causes in the world.
Here's how:
Like most all Atheists, Dawkins obsesses over the issue of whether or not God
exists. He applies his logic to the issue, and comes up with every reason you can
imagine why you should not believe in any sort of Supreme Being who created
the universe. He tells people that a belief that gives them great comfort is false.
This, of course, causes these people mental pain, and makes them close their
minds to Dawkins' arguments. The more widely he manages to spread his
message, the more he sets himself up as a visible opponent to faith, and this
334
increased opposition to faith may actually help to strengthen the hold of religion
on people's minds. In the end, he may actually cause greater pain and suffering
than if he had stood mute.
Since God, if he exists, does so outside our physical world, the question of
existence will always be debatable. You can make your points about evolution all
day, and all you are doing is winning an argument about where God has
intervened in the world, not the argument of whether God actually exists or not.
>>748200900
No idea about these.
Just because all these words come from my country, I'd say that two categories are thematically(topical?) enough
>>748200900
Also,
Of course I know what they mean desu, obviously
>>748201296
However, there is another class of argument, one that the average Anarchist
embraces but the average Atheist seems to ignore – possibly because it is really
a theological argument. That argument avoids the issue of God's existence and
instead argues the idea that man need not worship anyone or anything. It runs
something like this:
>>748201472
Why should it be automatic that, just because a higher being
created the universe, that you should worship him? OK, so you
are told that GOD is bigger, more powerful, and more
knowledgeable. But there are people right here on Earth that
are bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter than you. You don't
automatically worship them. You don't consider yourself to be
obligated to do their bidding, and to serve their interests. Why
should a god or GOD be any different?
Why would anyone ever assume that GOD would want you to
do everything he said? It’s all supposed to be about free will
right? GOD would want you to use that brain he put in your
head. He would want you to make your own mistakes and learn
from them. Maybe when you do bad things, it really does make
the baby Jesus cry. But he is probably crying more about the
people who always do what they are told without question. It is
this blind obedience without thought that causes most of the
horrible shit that happens in the world.
If GOD exists, he doesn't want you to worship him. He is
confident enough in his omnipotence not to need that kind of
ego boost. He is certainly going to be pissed off if you don’t
think for yourself and choose to have someone else tell you
what to do. He gave you that brain and he wants you to use it!
And if you are one of those people that have a need to tell other
people what they can and cannot do, stop it! Don’t try to prevent
other people from exercising the Free Will GOD gave them, he
would want them to come to the right decisions because they
figure it out for themselves, not because you prevented them
from doing the things that you think are wrong. Find a better
place to get your self-esteem from than controlling others.
>>748201541
Gold pasta, but, if something created me, I'm certain I'll follow.
Though I don't know, so-
>>748201541
Now it seems odd to say that this is an Atheist argument, since it starts by saying
"OK, let’s suppose there is a GOD" and this is a statement that the 'faithful'
Atheist can not easily allow himself to make. However, no being, no matter how
powerful, is really a god unless people worship him. If they do not then he is just
another sentient creature who is bigger, tougher, smarter or whatever. Atheism
means not having gods, it does not mean believing that there is no creature in (or
outside of) the universe that is more powerful than any or all human beings.
If you have faith in yourself, in your right to choose your own actions, and
make your own mistakes, then you can allow for the possibility of a more
powerful being, maybe even a creator of the universe, and still be an
atheist.
So we would suggest that atheists everywhere stop trying to prove there is no
supreme being, and start asking people to look at the consequences of handing
their choices over to other people's versions of what that supreme being wants
us to do. Ask people to question why a supreme being would ever want them to
do anything to increase his, her, or its glory. Any ideas that say that a supreme
being needs a human to do anything for it are the product of either unscrupulous
individuals taking advantage of faith, or an ideological organism with its own
agenda.
>>748194592
Congratulations! You're one of those pussy edge lords, who truly isn't an atheist!
>>748201812
I think you missed his point
I don't believe any religion, but I don't have any explanation for this: in the air and sea and land surrounding you are molecules of elements. Oxygen and Helium and Carbon, etc. But those same elements are all found in the cells of your brain. Some are woven into different shapes such as proteins but they are still all elements. There's no such thing as a "life" element. So what makes you any different to a desk or chair? Why can you remember things when desk can't? And if you ARE no different, why is me smashing up a piece of wood any worse than me smashing your head in with a sledgehammer?
>>748201142
You can't be sure of anything
Seeing all the evidence and then not drawing a conclusion doesn't count as a conclusion
as an atheist, I believe there's no need for a higher power because science has demonstrated that the universe operates deterministically (again we can't be 100% sure of this) so it's not a stretch to say everything, the universe and beyond, operates deterministically without the need for metaphysical phenomena
I prefer black cherry ice cream.
But what do I know? I'm just an ordinary pleb.
>>748193060
Why are you still making a big deal of this?
Debating religious people is just shooting fish in a barrel. Yes, you're right. Well done. Now move on with your life.
>>748201942
organic molecules for one and also metabolic pathways
life or living is just a way of saying "complicated self-sustaining chemistry"
>>748201985
99% true.
Well said. It would be "blasphemous" towards scientists to disagree with this
>>748198798
but which agnostic are you
>gnosticism is a position of knowledge claims not a position of beliefs
>inb4 "true agnostic"
there is no "true agnostic" you either believe in god but accept theres an equal chance he also could just not exist or you dont and accept that theres an equal chance he might
if you wanna claim some kind of "true agnostic" you need to put forward a 3rd position but i doubt you can without it just being one of the first two reworded
(this is also for anyone else not just anon im replying to especially since this might not even apply to him)
>>748201883
No. You're refusing to challenge the views and texts of the other various faiths, much like all the other "atheists" whom only attack Christianity because their mom and dad forced them to go to church when they're kids. You want people to debate you, but instead here you are trying to keep the playing field in your favor because you either don't want to offend followers, decided to never look into the other faith's teachings or you only have a personal grudge against Christians.
>>748201942
>There's no such thing as a "life" element.
Correct. That would be vitalism. Which is BS.
>So what makes you any different to a desk or chair?
You are a different phenomenon.
Tho, frankly, the categorizations are really just those of familiarity and utility. Not discrete.
>Why can you remember things when desk can't?
Memory is procedural, not 1:1.
Your brain vaguely reruns relevant scenarios based on what constellation of input is given. There is nothing spooky about it.
In short: You remembering is a phenomenon a desk can't have.
>And if you ARE no different, why is me smashing up a piece of wood any worse than me smashing your head in with a sledgehammer?
Because ethics needs no metaphysical basis. It's "bad" because it is contrary to our nature.
>>748202468
Focus.
I'm not the guy you replied to
>>748202539 (You)
Replied to Earlier/before*
I am an agnostic
I dont care
>>748200810
>atheism is a belief
you fucked up there as atheism is literally the LAC of belief ill explain in two sentnences
>not an atheist
"i firmly believe there is no god"
>atheist
"i do not believe there is a god"
>>748203297
This
>>748203512
If I said I don't believe in cancer would that be a belief? I think yes
>>748193060
As I understand atheism, it is that you don't hold a belief. But to debate you, you would have to have some position to discuss. Like, some atheists (Theodore Dalrymple, Heather Mac Donald) are capable of saying that they can see the value of religion and admire many of its features, albeit as outsiders. More atheists are like Hitchens and Dawkins and Harris, smug judgmental small-minded pricks. I wouldn't debate the former, and the latter are retards, so what would be the point?
>>748203999
trips of truth
>>748203660
Yes, because you are implicitly asserting that the evidence to the contrary is somehow false.
An African tribesman, who has never heard of cancer or even upon hearing of cancer simply doesn't believe in it, is not holding a belief.
Just use the burden of proof as a guideline, m8.
>>748203999
Hitchens and Dawkins acknowledged the extreme cultural importance of religion.
Harris even admits that religion has been the only sphere in which certain important psychological phenomenon were traditionally conceptualized.
They all simply state that religion has run its course and can/should be discarded to the past.
>>748193060
Why? Religion has killed more people than any war or terrorism.
Religion should be abolished
Christianity had their time to rule, we called it the dark ages and destroyed scientific advancement for centuries
>>748193060
>I'm an atheist. Debate me.
Why do I want to debate an ignorant iditot?
>>748204294
They acknowledge its importance in the way that one acknowledges Hitler as important.
One of them, I think Hitchens, always refers to Christians in his work as "mammals." That's junior high level twattery.
>>748204123
>implicitly...
so atheism isn't like that?
You're not asserting that religions are false?
>>748204300
This is why I am not an atheist. This kind of abysmal historical ignorance is the norm among atheists I encounter.
>>748204671
He's never heard of them.
I think "God" isn't a person. I think God is the series of events that led to the creation of matter, then molecules, then organisms. It has been proven matter cannot be created or destroyed (with the exception of anti matter and atom splitting) so because our sentience is derivative of myoelctric impulses, maybe the ideology of God or heaven is your sentience being realesed into the universe after death. Maybe the reason people who come back to life saying they saw nothing is because a human brain cannot comprehend the idea of sentience being released back amongst the cosmos. It is too much information to process. I believe the afterlife is an endless euphoric trip from one end of the universe to the other and back again, in an instant. Endlessley watching the cycle of creation, destruction and rebirth amongst the cosmos.
how can you be an atheist If you can't disprove god tho no matter how much of a nonsense it sounds?
agnostic here
>>748203660
nope
>i dont believe in cance
you literally said "dont believe" which is not a belief
do you think bald is a haircolor or off is a tv channel?
>>748204671
most atheist wont outright just assert religions are false we just dont believe them to be true (unless of course you can prove to us that they are) which is a completely different thing
>>748193060
atheism isn't as strictly logical as proponents of the ideology would prefer to believe. Gnosticism is superior, as a purely logical understanding.
>>748204675
so you believe in god because you think all atheists are assholes?
>>748204857
so you believe in god because you cant disprove him?
>>748204617
>They acknowledge its importance in the way that one acknowledges Hitler as important.
Not really. Only an uncultured moron wouldn't understand how all Western culture derives from Graeco-Roman culture. That includes Christianity.
The constant bashing on how religion was and is the direct cause of horrible shit was simply because of the endless BS about how religion is inherently a force for good. Which it demonstrably (and conceptually) isn't.
>One of them, I think Hitchens, always refers to Christians in his work as "mammals."
Sounds more like Dawkins. Who is a Biologist and probably just wanted to drive the point home, that homo sapiens isn't singularly special.
>That's junior high level twattery.
No matter what you think of Hitchens, he certainly wasn't a dumb man. Dawkins I might agree.
You might want to check out Harris's podcast. He has some of the best interviews.
>>748204671
>so atheism isn't like that?
Traditionally: No. Atheism is simply a form of "hard" agnosticism.
>You're not asserting that religions are false?
Not in the sense of "disproving" them. (Tho many doctrines can be "disproven" both in their inconsistencies and real-world-assertions.)
It's just a more pragmatic form of agnosticism. Or rather a version where all random assertions are treated equally.
The pragmatic use of the term "possible" "plausible" and "true" are just different. Not the actual positions.
>>748204818
sounds exhausting
>>748194592
Virtue signalling sjw athiest? WHEW LAD WE FOUND A LIVE ONE BOYS!
>>748194726
nice, same
>>748205661
no I'm agnostic like I said, in otherwords I have no power of knowing >>748205894
>>748193060
How can you have morality without religion?
High antarctic ice = Great flood.
>>748206021
there was morality before religion
aint no atheists in fox holes
OP when you are done playing grown-up with these christian manchildren worshiping an unoriginal white Ra with a beard. Come learn about a REAL religion.
You friendly neighbourhood Hindu.
stick to reddit uneducated faggot, cool you don't believe in god so why constantly force arguments about it?
>>748206169
Ah, no? Religion is as old as recorded history. The more religion developed, the more moral foundation humanity had.
>>748205997
>so you believe in god be....
>no
congratulation you're an agnostic atheist its literally black and white you either believe in god or you dont even if you know you can know you still have a position on wether or not you believe
see>>748202467
>>748205997
why am i tagged
>>748194592
are you kidding? I think you're just anti-christianity and not atheist at all
>>748195281
probably a teetotaler as well as an edgelord
>>748193060
>debate me
Ha!
>G-give me attention so I can feel validated
>I-i feel so empty!
>Saved
Btw, I see nothing wrong with anything someone believes until they attempt to use it as a tool for ego inflation, political agendas or virtue signalling.
>>748206021
altruism
i dont do things that hurt people because if i do it makes people want to do things that hurt me
i do things to help people because it makes them more likely to help me when i need it
its basic fucking shit
>>748206442
Most atheists just hate the religion they came from. That's where the fedora behavior comes from. They just want revenge on their former faith.
Theres no God
Atheist ftw
>>748206559
what the fuck am i looking at
>>748206612
Altruism isn't the sum total of morality. Also, your logic there would mean that there's no issue with doing harm if nobody finds out, and helping people is useless if nobody finds out. To be a moral person all of the time, you need faith in a set of religious morals.
>>748193060
so what act of anger/arrogance is causing you to ignore your pineal gland?
>>748199775
Oh god it's this lunatic again. I debated this idiot once, he doesn't really engage. Just spouts his pseudo-catholic fanfiction.
>>748193060
You will go to hell.
>>748205727
>The constant bashing on how religion was and is the direct cause of horrible shit was simply because of the endless BS about how religion is inherently a force for good. Which it demonstrably (and conceptually) isn't.
Do you hear your own contradiction? "The only reason we bash religion is because religion acts like it's good, which it isn't"
And it was Hitchens, as in "The prohibition on picturing the prophetwho was only another male mammalis apparently absolute."
That's just being a tendentious asshole, not a biologist. Let us hope that atheists who call human beings no different than mammals have a clearer boundary in their sex lives.
I don't think Hitchens was stupid. I think he was brilliant. But his atheist schtick is an embarrassment to his legacy.
>>748206628
>Most atheists just hate the religion they came from
thats not necessarily true and many of the ones who DO actually hate the religion they come from also may have good reasons as they may have been expose to a lot of backwards shit due to the religion of their upbringing
>>748199426
that picture would be so beautiful if it werent for those silhouettes of crosses.
>>748206612
>do unto others as you would have them do unto you
and why exactly was that value instilled in you by the society you were brought up in? where did it come from?
>>748206612
That's another way atheists seem unintelligent.
The obvious way to behave in a naturalist sense is to maximize your own gains and minimize your own losses, so that when you have no power, you appeal to altruism, and when you have power, you take from the weak because fuck them.
>>748196635
Yes it is. You are retarded if you think otherwise.
>>748206903
I said "most" didn't I? However good their reasons, they tend to judge the entire faith because of their bad experience. Just because your parents were asshole religious types doesn't mean the whole faith is at fault.
>>748206921
It's a shame that atheists can't even enjoy beauty without being dickheads.
You at the Sistine Chapel: "That ceiling would be prettier if it were whitewashed."
You've a bit of the Taliban in you, mate.
>>748206980
That is not the same a altruism.
Altruism was a development of tribal society, dating back to pre hominid days.
>>748196635
>but is it really wrong to kill people?
that's getting awful close to moral relativism, and that shit literally destroys civilizations, so be real careful with that
>>748193880
Politics is theology?
>>748206782
while those are good point it still helps with morality and if
thinking that way is also very risky because its easier for people to find out thank you might think and doing something bad in secret has a far worse effect than doing something blatantly
as for helping someone how the hell is no one going to find out.....theres LITERALLY the person you helped and good news always spreads
and as far as faith its way to blind to be a good source of morality
you cant believe "though shalt not kill" but ignore gay men needing to be stoned and that slavery is alright but god forbid you wear mixed fabrics
a system of morals needs to be flexible and fair and rigid and uncaring as with the passage of time and circumstance moral rights and wrongs are subject to change and there are no moral absolutes
if god tells you killing is wrong and then you find yourself in a room with hitler are you saying killing him would e morally wrong?
>>748193060
Go outside you moron.
No one actually cares, you're just wasting your life on a board that will prune anything you say, even if it is meaningful, in a couple hours.
Go out, take a walk, maybe lose some of that extra weight and become happier.
>>748194839
As a depressed atheist who is an absurdist, Im going to have to say yes in 99% of cases.
>>748207388
You can't go to heaven if you aint baptized catholic You will remain in purgatory forever.
>>748207121
the "most" part is what i meant to say wasnt necessarily true if that wasnt clear. A lot of people tend to go with their personal experiences and without actual data you cant really say most because then i could turn around and say that most of the atheists ive met are cool people (which is true but also most of the theists ive met are cool people as well)
its ironic too as you say "they tend to judge the entire faith because of their bad experience" when you seem to be doing the same thing with atheism
>>748207274
and just where exactly did you get that idea?
>>748207388
Good news does not always spread You really can't think of morally good actions where no or few people are going to find out? I can think of many off the top of my head.
As to your other points, the contradictions of religion are a problem, but they tend to be reconciled over time. It's still better than no system of morals at all.
>>748207348
kinda?
It's not entirely coincidental that statists tend to be atheists and vice versa, as the state becomes a kind of substitute religion for them.
>>748207083
except for this has no bearing on power whatsoever no matter how powerful you are being a dick screws you over eventually its better to have power and influence through community that to take the power and end up geting killed over it
>>748207679
>You will remain in purgatory forever.
You are obviously not a Catholic if you think that.
>>748206891
>Do you hear your own contradiction?
Not really. There was none.
I never said religion acts good. I said it claims to be good. Two different things entirely.
>That's just being a tendentious asshole, not a biologist.
Oh yeah, he was an asshole, alright. Sexist, too.
But still pretty intelligent and worth listening to.
>Let us hope that atheists who call human beings no different than mammals have a clearer boundary in their sex lives.
But... We are mammals.
>But his atheist schtick is an embarrassment to his legacy.
Nah, his following is.
And it wasn't a schtick.
He genuinely felt the way he made it sound.
And more importantly: He could bash out 10 reasons why in under ten seconds.
Listen, you don't have to like the guy. Or guys.
And I'm with you on Hitchens and Dawkins.
But frankly: The level of discourse was always that of the topic.
It was always about the worst outbursts of religions. Which actually threaten our Western society. And then you can't really expect great conversations on how neo-platonism are pretty, but ultimately grounded in false epistemology. (Or something to that effect.)
And more importantly:
It doesn't force you to be an un-atheist.
I don't really call myself an atheist. Tho by any definition I probably am.
>>748207727
I'm not judging all athiests. I'm saying that the ones who want to debate, get in your face about it, etc. are the ones who have a personal axe to grind with religion. I get that it's a generalization, but I'm talking about one group of athiests. Athiests, however, will judge a whole faith on the actions of a few or a single line of scripture.
>>748193060
There is no god.
>>748207871
>no matter how powerful you are being a dick screws you over eventually
You can't think of bad men who died of old age peacefully in their beds? Stalin died at home surrounded by loved ones at 77 after murdering 20 million people.
>>748207761
but the contradictin are still there. it is an immensely flawed system that puts precedent to the creator that pretty much anything is alright if you believe enough
ig hitler in his final moments truly realize the error of his ways and truly repented before dying he would receive no punishment whatsoever and that is NOT a good thing
>>748208029
Can you prove that?
>>748208118
Can you define god in a falsifiable way?
Did you read the new Dan Brown book before you converted to the atheism religion?
Rules and society exist so smart people can use them to control and manipulate stupid people. They have no value in and of themselves to a smart person, other than that he can't get caught breaking them.
>>748208193
God is beyond the comprehension of us, and is thus difficult to define in a falsifiable way. That doesn't mean he isn't real.
>>748207915
then why start with "most atheists" not "most atheists that" and then you still go on to geeralize us all in your last sentece like you think atheists are a bunch of whiny children throwing a tantrum over "the actions of a few or a single line of scripture." which not the case at all (seriously tell me a single atheists that is because of a single line or the actions of a few people and literally nothing else)
>>748207890
Your contradiction was in saying that atheism attacks religion because it claims to be good when it obviously isn't good. You based the attacks on religion (religion is bad) on the fact that religion is bad. That's a tautology but also a contradiction, since you are suggesting the attacks aren't sincere while saying they are.
There is a difference between saying we are mammals and denying the differences between us and other mammals.
By his schtick, I mean the endless asshole moves he made only to be a firestarter or flamethrower. He was (granted) smart enough to be a first-rate thinker, but he could be as mature and civil as Trump or Bill Maher.
And they did not bother to distinguish "bad" religion from good. Hitchens' attacks on Mother Teresa are, to be honest, wretched. I am not a big fan of hers, but his attacks on her are borderline mental.
>>748208060
oh yes it happens but statistically speaking what are the odds its going to happen to you? thats like literally one bad guy in millions gets to avoid getting fucked
>>748208402
Again, I did not say I thought all atheists were like that. I just said it right fucking there. As for atheists who are that way over the actions of a few people, are you kidding? How many become atheists simply as an act of rebellion against their religious parents? How many just had a bad church experience? There are plenty of atheists like that.
>>748197293
It's fucking Chile.
>>748208193
Why would I need to use one academic discipline's methodology about how to interpret nature to prove the existence of the supernatural?
Wouldn't you have to be a retard to expect a tool (science) whose whole mission is to understand the natural world to try to understand the supernatural?
>>748208547
I disagree. It's the stupid bad people that get punished. You haven't heard of most of the smart "bad people" because they haven't gotten caught.
>>748193060
Why are you an atheist and not an agnostic?
Agnosticism is a more honestly defensible position than atheism.
This universe is a weird fucking place, and assuming that any god is impossible is ignoring the strange shit that occurs.
Even commonly accepted rules of logic can be overturned when dealing with quantum mechanics.
That being said, placing your faith in a personal god is foolish when there is no evidence it exists.
>>748208547
I would only ask you to look around and see if you ever encounter any people who expect you to be utterly fair to them and who positively obsess over how they are treated, and then see if those same people extend the same fairness and treatment to others that they expect for themselves?
Am I a misanthropist to suggest that you encounter such people every damn day.
>>748208647
Yep. If you have the intuition Kirk had that the state was at war with the family, then suddenly its behavior makes sense. You don't get 80% illegitimacy in the hood without a whole cadre of programs making it happen.
>>748193060
How can it be possible for you to reject God ? Can you not feel his presence in your daily life?
>>748208635
whenyou say "most atheists" yo uare judging all atheist as being part of a crowd that mostly shows a characteristic when you says "most atheists" you are free to assume that all atheists you talk to behave this way because as far as you're concerned most of them do
as for the whole rebellious thing if they're so common then give me an example? you're just assumng that teens who stop believing do so to rebel but what is leading you to this conclusion. I stopped believing when i was a teen and it had nothing to do with rebellion and "rebellious" teens tend to have their own reasons
you must really hate atheists if you think that we are so incapable of thought and reasoning that people just wake up one day and think "you know what i hate my parents so fuck god"
damn man you're coming off like quite an arrogant ass
>>748208371
Same with the spaghetti monster.
>>748209296
lol dude do you not know what "most" means? Do you not get that it is different from "all"? Do you not understand basic fucking english? As for examples, I can't provide any because I don't know every single athiest. I know people in real life that are like that, but you don't know them so I can't really cite them. I don't hate athiests, stop putting words into my mouth.
>>748208769
>you havent heard of them but they exist
then lets assume literally all people of power are inherently bad no matter how good they seem
point still stands more are caught doing bad things and punished than die of old age (though i guess if you just assume all powerful people are bad that does drastically increase your odds)
>>748209296
Not the same anon, but do you feel any sense at all that an atheist telling people not to judge all atheists maybe ought to deliver the same lecture to people saying 'all religious people are retarded' and similar stuff?
>>748209424
wew, isn't it past your bedtime?
I could understand not believing in one specific religions god(s), but how can you think there isnt SOME kind of higher dimensional being that in some way started all this? From a philosophical perspective, there always has to be a beginning, you cant say that matter has just always existed. It had to be put there by something. Even if that something is some giant scientist in a lab who forgot to clean a beaker and now our universe (along with probably several others) are growing inside of it.
Kind of rambling, but my point is, its illogical to conclude that all things as we know them were made from nothing, because who put them there? WHY is there something in the nothing? If its always been there then who put it there? Probably not some bearded guy in white robes, but it sure as hell was SOME kind of higher dimensional being
>>748208118
Sure omniscience is litterally impossible as if you invent something then you didnt know about it being all powerful is impossible as you cant make something that you cant stop but if you do then your not all powerful but if you are all powerful then you must be able to.
>>748209424
How is the Flying Spagetti Monster beyond human comprehension? It's a joke made up to mock christians, it's not that hard to understand. God, however, is a timeless, omnipotent, omniscient force beyond our full understanding.
>>748208878
i live with aout a dozen people like that and the fact that they are so volatile to each other is one of the ways that help me realize this
>>748209177
I'll answer that one.
I have not rejected God.
I have never been given an offer.
>inb4 the bible, a third hand account of magic, gave you that offer
If I'm accepting something that big, I need to meet whoever is offering it in person.
Hell, people insist on test driving a car before they buy it, and you expect me to give up my life on the basis of hearsay?
>>748209576
Punctuation dude. Without it I can't understand what the fuck you're saying
>>748209508
it doesn't have to do with power, though
it has to do with the fact - and if you're honest you know it's a fact - that lots of people, maybe most, are very much more concerned with how they feel they are treated than they worry about other people
The atheist idea that my desire to be treated well will be guaranteed by my willingness to treat others well seems to be based on an earth I've never visited, where most people aren't self-centered and quite happy to have things play out to their advantage
>>748209714
Meh i dont feel like it. Call me a faggot.
>>748198613
i agree, people who like them are either bi or gay.
god religion is stupid. i got into a car accident i saw the light though. i saw a bunch of hot blonde girls.
>>748193060
I will debate you. What is your claim?
>>748209832
lol okay you literally can't be ask to write out your argument in a coherent sentence so I dunno faggot
Agnosticfag here. How the fuck do you identify yourself by your belief/unbelief in something which you claim doesn't exist?
>>748209872
If it was really heaven, it would have been brunettes and redheads. Blondes are too trashy for heaven.
*tips*
>>748209508
I'm not just talking about people with power, though they're included. And yes I do think most of them are what society would consider evil. But I'm talking about like, your every day Joe who just happens to rape and murder women every now and then.
>>748209502
>Do you not understand basic fucking english?
do you not have basic reading comprehensive skills? if you do try to reread my forst point as i clearly state how saying "most atheists" judges all atheists eve if you technically arent
how does me not knowing them mean you cant cite them
if you dont hate atheists then why do you talk as if you think we are all just petulant children who dont think for themselves and are just rebelling or having a tantrum over the tiniest of things
im not putting the words in your mouth im pulling the implications out of your words
>>748208465
No, that was an observation.
You can't be tautological and also contradictory, dude.
I think you are confused.
All I said was that, historically, no religion (apart from maybe Jain) managed to inspire any faith in moral superiority. Which is why people like Hitchens talked the way they did.
I'm not getting into a debate here.
>There is a difference between saying we are mammals and denying the differences between us and other mammals.
Not really. They are just of degree. Not really of discrete category. He probably phrased it that way, knowing it would trigger people like you.
That was just his opinion, dude. And your offense was probably part of the problem he saw in all of this.
>only to be a firestarter or flamethrower.
To be fair: Because nobody else was doing it.
And I also think you are exaggerating. If his opponents were civil, he was civil. Sure, he was offensive. But just for effect.
>And they did not bother to distinguish "bad" religion from good.
They did. They just phrased it "Some ideas are worse than others". Mostly when talking about Islam. Or about Christianity, compared to Buddhism. Or Buddhism, compared to Jainism.
>Hitchens' attacks on Mother Teresa are, to be honest, wretched.
Sure, whatever.
Look, dude. I'm not here to make you like the guy. I'm just noting that lacking character didn't make his arguments invalid and you really shouldn't respond so emotionally to them. You're just making your own life and thinking more difficult for yourself.
>>748208656
The same goes for your brain.
>>748210061
Dude, you are extrapolating so much from what I said that isn't true. Saying "most athiests" is not judging you all, that's literally just not what that means dude. If I can cite people I know, then okay: I know multiple people who just became atheists because they had strict religious upbringings. And again, I didn't say any of that shit at the bottom, you're projecting really fucking hard here man The lady doth protest too much, methinks
>>748209516
i actually do feel that same way and even hinted as such in an earlier post
exact words were "most of the atheists ive met are cool people (which is true but also most of the theists ive met are cool people as well)" hinting that i accept that there are plenty of really cool theists and that i tend to not judge them
>>748209915
No its not that i can i just dont feel like it. So in turn call me a faggot.
>>748209643
>>748209563
So is the spaghetti monster.
Which is the point the joke is trying to make.
The spaghetti monster is just a valid. Just a little more silly.
Take Shiva instead. Doesn't really make a difference.
>>748210334
" I don't feel like it" = "I don't really have an argument and I'm trying to hide that"
>>748193060
I'm an atheist too, but it sure seems like there's a god fucking with me by the way my life rapidly gets better and worse all the time. Maybe I'm just a fortunate psycho and there is no hope.
Wanna hear my recent turn of events? It's so up and down my head is spinning.
>>748210358
How is a joke as valid as a religious belief based on ancient scriptures? Shiva is not the same, different religion that has huge problems.
>>748193060
this isn't 2007 faggot. we won.
>>748209977
Checked. I personally take atheist to mean that I don't accept any of the current proposed theologies as currently presented. The default position should be to not accept an extraordinary claim without proof. Instead, atheism is sometimes presented by theists as a conter to christianity: "God isn't real and I can prove it". This is an attempt to create a straw argument which can then be used for a false equivalence between their claim of "god exists" and the straw claim "god doesn't exist". An athiest should instead just say "there is no reason to believe that this particular god exists" or "the level of evidence presented does not meet the standards of rigor I require for belief". No disproving needed.
>>748194592
You're a faggot, fuck Muslims and jews.
>>748210486
>How is a joke as valid as a religious belief based on ancient scriptures?
The age of an assertion doesn't make it better.
The concept of the spaghetti monster is exactly the same as "god". Plus, it's a spaghetti monster.
It fulfills the same epistemological criteria.
>>748194839
Ya they're also full of shit because they won't follow through with proving they are nihilists. You have to be a straight up psycho to actually be a nihilist. I'm psycho, but not dumb enough to call myself a nihilist.
>>748199300
that's not a rebuttal to any of the points made in that picture, faggot.
>>748195186
>Why are we here?
everyone has to be somewhere
>why do people die?
cause all systems are circular and your nutrients must be recycled.
>>748210318
ok let me break this down for you
when you say "most atheists" you are judgin the group "athests" to be a population where "most" have this behavior
then it follow that all atheists in the group have a higher chance of being in the "most" than not
thus it is "most" like that any atheist you meet has this behavior
when you assume that "most" of a group has this behavior it becomes a presumption that sits there with ALL people you meet of said group
also fucking shit man
>he's just projecting
what exactly do you think i'm projecting here and why exactly do you think there people you know only decided to be an atheist randomly because of their religious upbringing and not a combination of factors
>>748193060
I also believe so, so I shall not debate you, though I shall point out that you are edgy for thinking that because you are atheist you are "special".
>>748210649
You're an idiot. Spagetti Monster is an admitted joke. It's not a real claim at all.
>>748195281
That happened to me. I was mad at myself for reminding myself. Kinda spoiled the game
>>748210769
Where the fuck did you learn to type and format posts? Just how much was your mother drinking when she was having you?
"Most athiests" was a generalized claim, yes. You decided it was some serious condemnation of your entire group because you're overly sensitive to criticism. Which I guess is typical of athiests. You're projecting the anger you have onto me, assuming the faithful are just as angry and prone to lashing out as you are.
>>748209829
no on ever said anything was guaranteed and it would be ludicrous to expect so
even so its better to be good to a dozen people and only a quarter of them are good in return then to be good to no one and no one be good in return
>>748210399
Alright faggot here's one of my arguments. God would be a living paradox. God is said to be all powerful, however if god was all powerful that would mean he'd have to be able to create something more powerful than himself, but if he was able to do that then he would stop being all powerful making this completly impossible. But if he where all powerful than he MUST be able to create this. On top of this he is also said to be omniscient. This is also impossible as if he where to use his all powerful abilities to create something completly new then that new thing created was something he didnt know about until he invented it, meaning he cant possibly omniscient.
>>748193060
you obviously believe in garbage can
go to >>>/pol/ and post under a treehugger flag environmentalist faggot
>>748209872
what about women who like traps because they are cute?
>>748193060
So, what part of a magical button-pushing bearded old man in the sky, do you have a problem with?
>>748211196
Those paradoxes are the best you have? We don't know the limits or mechanics of omnipotence or omniscience. It's that simple. We never claimed to know God's mind.
Not op
>>748211198
LOL where's that coming from? I was an environmentalist before my life got turned, now I'm a monster scarier than you.
>>748210514
Isnt that more agnosticism? Like you dont know if there is or isnt a god and theres no way to know so you dont bother with that? Thats how I always see it, and agnosticism seems to be the wisest belief of all
>>748210937
What
>>748211196
These are all relative to us dipshit. Think of where most religions come from, theyre poetic not legal writers. I say the tree reached the sky its not actually touching whatever imaginary sky is there, its symbolism.
ur savage
>>748211215
bitches love "cute" shit and things that'll make 'em go "aawwwww"
and that is why we have so many genders today
all because some beta faggot decided one day it is a good idea to allow them outside the kitchen premises
>>748211423
How is that a valid argument? If you say that then you become just as bad as the people who push god on people. With that reasoning you could argue that the flying spaghetti monster exsists, because we dont know or understand his mind or realm.
>>748193060
>I'm an atheist
Good for you, are you gonna tell us you're a vegan too?
I don't believe in God kek
>>748193060
There is a god anon. You just want to become an atheist so you don't have to go to church you lazy sinning NEET.
>>748211109
what assumptions? im calling you out as an ass because you are acting like one ive even stated before that most of the theists i know are pretty cool people you're tho one generalizing entire groups here
>oh no i cant properly refute his point better insult his type style and his mother and imply he whas a mental deficiency due to FAS
dude you're pretty much a joke at this point this entire conversation you've done nothing but make wild accusation generalizing an entire group (then you said you werent and THEN admitted you were) and resorting to ad hominem and shit rather than actually defend your point
>>748211747
How is it not a valid argument? You need to actually counter my point, you know. You can't just say "that's not valid". Also, the FSM is a fucking joke. It's not a real claim. Christ, do you people not get that FSM is a joke and not a real refutation of belief?
>>748193060
if there is no god then explain this
>>748211595
In the end no one could truely know whether a god exsists. No matter the argument we as a race are stuck with what we know. So in truth no i dont truely know if a god exsists or not, i just choose to use what i know as fact to base my opionion on.
>>748211929
I made a generalized statement that you took way too fucking seriously because you can't handle even implied criticism. That's how much of a special snowflake you are. I defended my point, you decided to move the goalposts and start projecting things onto me.
>>748211969
And yes i realize the fsm is a joke.
>>748211444
No, atheism just means without belief in the existence of a god or gods. That belief doesnt exist because no claim of the existence of a god or gods has met the required level of evidence for believing a thing. Its atheism by definition. If thats how you feel, you are also an atheist.
>>748211871
I was an atheist and still went to church for years
>>748211444
I'm the clown who came to town and checked your trips upside down
>>748212166
satanic dubs work against you so i have 3 questions
>what goalposts did i move where?
>when did i get angry?
>what point did you defend and how?
maybe there is just a miscommunication here but i dont see any of that in our conversation
>>748212210
Then stop citing it as a counterclaim. It just makes you look pedantic.
Does it make sense for a universe, having not existed, to think itself into existance
