As a Christian I often make threads here.
The purpose of these threads is not to insult atheists, but instead to educate folks on things that are actually in the Bible rather than to support foolish traditions that are simply untrue. For example
Adam and Eve were not the first humans ever.
The idea of Rapture is an unbiblical lie or deception.
So stop on in and feel free to ask me anything.
>>746388431
Looks like a slow night.
Well I will bump a couple times before I decide to go to bed.
>>746388431
Bump
>>746388431
Last bump g'night /b/
>>746388431
Yo you still there.
>>746388431
Why is there evil in the world?
OP is dead
>>746389814
Just like god
>>746389839
/thread
>>746389727
Yep. Sorry was off reading an article elsewhere.
>>746389764
Because the hearts and imaginations of men are evil. And the devil enjoys deceiving us.
A better question might be - why God permits it?
>>746389814
Nope just got distracted.
>>746389839
>>746390340
Stop it.
>>746390433
Well why Does god permit it?
>>746390340
Grow up.
>>746390433
Also, why our are hearts and imaginations evil if we are created in gods image? And why did God create us allowing evil into our hearts and imaginations?
Aw he left again. Guess he couldn't answer.
>>746390481
As I said better question.
Not sure I can really answer it.
I will try though.
See we are here as a lesson.
A lesson that is a basic as to be born, to then live, and to die.
But why would God put us here?
There was a rebellion and a war in Heaven
The devil wanted to be in charge and deceived one third of Heaven in to following him.
Another third could not choose sides.
The remaining third while loyal to God? Demanded the deaths of the other two.
God did not want to do this.
So instead he cleared all the living things off of the Earth and seeded mankind all about it.
We are the Angels of God made flesh.
We did not begin the day we were born but instead are far older beings.
God himself promised to do this thing to be born as a Man. He even promised what blood line he would be born of.
Sadly only one being refuses to do this test (The Devil) You are doing it. God already did it (Perhaps more than once?). But either way every soul on Heaven is commanded to be born to live and to die. Gods hope is that by suffering pain and death? We will learn mercy humility and obedience to God.
>>746390664
Again that has to do with the devil and the War I mentioned above. Well and also to the fact that we all "hear" a spirit. Either holy or unholy and sometimes both (Id, Ego, Super Ego.). Pic related.
>>746390957
Right but if he's an omnipotent god why can't he banish evil altogether? Why was this "rebellion" not just instantly done away with by God, if he's really all powerful it shouldn't have been an issue.
>>746390824
No I just have threads going else where too.
Give me a couple minutes to reply.
I will announce it if I plan to leave prior to thread 404..
OP I was raised Christian and I don't remember any passages detailing humans before Adam and Eve. Are you some kind of lesser known sect?
>>746391048
Well I suspect that if he had just destroyed Lucifer he would have angered two thirds of Heaven. A war was already happening we were killing one another. (As Angels) So God is doing this to try and save as many of us as he can. He does not want to lose even one of us. So this flesh life and the temporary death are probably better in his opinion.
He does not want robots he wants loyal loving children.
>>746391329
If he was all powerful he could have just converted Lucifer and his followers by sheer force of will. It could be done in an instant. And if man in inherently evil, why make it worse by inflicting further punishments on earth (disease, disasters, etc.)
>>746391191
No sect brother I do not claim to be any particular denomination though. I was ordained as a Pastor of the Universal Life Church when I was much younger but they became a tax shelter and so I left. Today I am just a work a day joe who studies the bible and trys to explain the story better then most are willing to.
As to other people take a look at when Cain was banished for killing Abel in Genesis 4 Around verse six or so if I recall?
God banishes him to the Land of the People of Nod - where Cain then takes a wife.. Oh so other people?
>>746391418
I don't think God does that kind of thing.
Having an ability and using it are definitely not the same. I don't know what God is capable of and I am not willing to limit him or over explain him.
Some men are outright evil and serve evil.
Others are just ignorant and hungry.
Both may kill you for a loaf of bread.
>>746391644
That was kind of a doge there, man. And as to God wanting to "save" us, why does he condemn so many of us to hell? If this is all a test to redeem our souls, it's an unfair one. Some are born with much better lives here on earth. Some are born not knowing Christianity. Why condemn so many to hell when they never had a chance?
>>746391418
>why are you questioning god's motives
>everything you interact with on this plane will be and could be peeled away from your senses
>>746391767
I can't question gods motives? Why not, his motives seem to make no sense. Again, I'm created in gods image, I was created to be thinking and rational, right?
Everyone's "God" is everything we see. There are what 3000 gods. Who are any of us to say anyone else is wrong or going to "hell". Come on I believe in " God " but so does everyone else in their own way. Be it existence of a mgical being in the sky or the very existence of matter
>>746391969
The existence of matter isn't a belief in God, no. I don't assign any spiritual meaning to anything.
>>746391719
We don't know who God condemns to hell or why.
Most of the time men who tell you they know, don't. I am not one who believes a person not having heard of Christ goes directly to hell.
If a person finds the truth?
Then they follow it.
Don't listen to idiots behind pulpits or men in funny hats.
God does not say he is going to send you to hell for eating lobster. He says "It does not offend me that which goes in a mans mouth but that which comes out".
So you do not go to hell because you eat something that is not Halal or Kosher.
But instead because of what you do or say.
When asked for the LAW Christ replied, "Hear me O Israel, The Lord God is the one true God.You shall love him with all your heart all your mind and all your soul. Treat all men as brothers do unto them as you would have them do unto you."
So the bar can be very high or very low.
What you expect of others is what God expects of you. He is not going to measure you by what the Pope says. He is going to measure you by what YOU say and DO. Your heart, not my rules.
>>746392072
Ok, but what men say and do is still shaped by the world around them, is it not? Someone born in a crime-ridden slum is very likely to grow up and do bad things, earning them a spot in hell. But they didn't choose the circumstances of their birth. Myself, for example, I was born in a good part of the world to a family with money, so I was pretty likely to grow up to be a good person. So again: if this is all a test to redeem our souls why is there such an uneven playing field?
>>746392010
Good for you anon. Got my point and didn't even mean to.
>>746392237
I didn't get it actually.
>>746391856
That post >>746391767
was not mine (OP)
>>746391856
There is nothing at all wrong with seeking truth or motives.
But some "Xtians" are ignorant and think they can tell others what to think and how to live.
These are people who rarely try to understand the messages in Torah Bible or Koran and instead try to lord it over others for profit rather than to listen to the Prophets.
>>746392284
Thanks for clarifying
>>746388431
I've read the bible, and really like the NT, the part about Jesus and what he preaches and what he stands for in my interpretation. Other parts of the bible, I like less. I had some hyper religious experiences in my life, and would probably call myself a christian, wouldn't I perceive it as such an exclusive club, sorta speak. For an all loving god to exclude people who were born into different religions in different parts of the world, just doesn't make much sense to me, and condemn them to hell because of it. Also to condemn them to hell because they were born gay? fuck that shit.
So I guess, instead of believing strictly in the bible, I choose to believe in universal values like love and justice, and hold those up as good as I possibly can in my life. I think that is what Jesus would have wanted anyways.
What do you think of someone with views like me? Does God send me to hell for that too in your view? How fundie are you OP?
>>746390957
I can't believe you came to /b/ to tell us about your bible fan fiction
>>746392399
I don't actually think that's what Jesus would have wanted. He never really takes back the rather strict laws laid downed the Old Testament.
>>746392207
Why would growing up in a slum necessitate condemnation to hell? I again think you are listening to a lot of nonsense.
What Christ said when he himself was called "Good Rabbi" by a sycophant who was trying to flatter him?
"Who are YOU calling good? There is no one good EXCEPT the FATHER in Heaven. No not one...."
Keep that in mind brother, if you think where you were born or haivng money makes you good? You may need to reexamine yourself quite a lot. As I said I was a Pastor and I do not see myself as Good. You see at one time I taught traditions.
I taught Baptism and Rapture. I may have inadvertently lead some of my Brothers straight to hell.
I pray that is not so every single day.
>>746392478
It's old-school Catholic dogma, not fan fiction
>>746392527
You're misunderstanding me. A person is judged based on their actions, yes? A,person raised in a bad situation is more likely to do bad things. Growing up in crime and poverty tends to create bad people. Growing up with an easy life, it's easier to be a good person. So, people on this earth aren't being judged fairly, as some have advantages in their upbringing that can affect the sort of person they become.
Also, isn't hell an inherently cruel concept? How can a loving God condemn anyone to hell?
>>746392492
I know that, but on the other hand he's also very keen on forgiveness and kindness and all that good stuff. I don't know, I said it's my interpretation of it, that the NT trumps the strict laws of the OT, but I didn't study theology or anything like that, but it just seems to me that the love of Jesus overcomes the strict old laws of the old testament.
>>746392478
Kek'd
>>746392387
Yea that wasn't obvious
>muh rational brain. So um guy with all the basic if he's not all powerful than is he all benevolent type questions...
Read the bible and meditate on clarity. Jesus is the way to the father, he is the light, he is the truth.
>>746392742
I've read the entire bible. Wasn't impressed. Lots of conflicting information, some rather immoral stories and laws. Job and Exodus I found horrifying.
>>746392399
I am fairly fundie..
I believe a lot of the Bible quite literally.
As I often put it I teach the Law, I struggle to follow the Law, I never dare to enforce the Law.
As to if you would go to hell that is ALWAYS between you and God. Men can deceive you and then it is their fault for deceiving you.
The devil can deceive you and then it is his fault.
The worst is when we deceive ourselves.
Making statements like "God does NOT exist".
Rather than saying "I am unsure if God exists?"
We often fool ourselves in to thinking we have proof when we do not. Or that we are experts when we are not.
As long as you are seeking the truth and love?
Odds are God is not going to condemn you to hell.
>>746392265
I didn't say just matter, I said "or" and no. There is no "spiritual" meaning.
>>746392688
I just don't see how anyone can reconcile the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament. They're so different it's pretty much two different gods from two different religions.
>>746390957
>Why does God permit evil
It's permitted because we were given free will.
>>746390957
>Another third could not choose sides
This is never stated in the Bible.
>The remaining third while loyal to God? Demanded the deaths of the other two
This is never stated in the Bible.
>We are the Angels of God made flesh
This is never stated in the Bible.
OP claims to be a Christian, but is clearly lying.
>>746390433
>A better question might be - why God permits it?
Because God is the God of both good AND evil.
Isaia 45:7
Amos 3:6
Makes it crystal clear - no room for interpretation or misunderstanding. God is the God of both good and evil.
And it's pretty obvious too, from a logic standpoint.
Is God stupid? nope
Is God all knowing? sure.
So if God is all knowing, then God knew what Lucifer would do before God created Lucifer. Right? If God created Lucifer without knowing what he would do, then God would not be all knowing, would He? So God knew what Lucifer would do before He created him. Which means, God had it all planned out beforehand.
Further evidence:
Look at the very beginning of the book of Job. Where is Lucifer? Not just back in heaven, but in the very throne room of God. But wait... wasn't Lucifer cast out of heaven? Long before this.... so how is he back in heaven? How is he not being attacked by the heavenly hosts?
Now look at his conversation with God. Do they sound like hated enemies? They greet each other like master and servant.
Do you think Lucifer stupid? I hope not.
So why would Lucifer rebel in the first place? He's not stupid. He knows how such a rebellion would end - he had to know. Unless.... he knew that was his job. It was what he was created to do. This explains the lack of animosity in the book of Job. Lucifer was serving God even by leading the rebellion. And all the angels cast from heaven were also serving God by doing what they were created to do. God is all knowing, and knew what each angel would do before He created each angel.
Which means Good is the God of all - angels, AND demons. Good AND evil.
Can a house divided stand?
The Bible says no. So why would you think heaven is divided? It's not.
Which brings us to another, possibly even more important, conclusion. It's all a charade - a kabuki dance - a playlet for our benefit. The whole good vs. evil, God vs. devil, the war, it's all staged.
cont?
>>746392827
Everyone one believes in "god" in a sense.
>>746392867
Ok, but why is there so much suffering that has nothing to do with free will. Disease and disaster have nothing to dowith free will, yet God inflicted many horrors on us.
>>746392910
I really don't
>>746392478
I have been making threads on /b/ for a hell of a long time. Where have YOU been? I am very cress son...
>>746392492
He confirms them in fact, but please make sure you mention to folks you are NOT OP when you reply to questions. We don't have ID's in threads anymore and it can be confusing.
Thanks.
>>746392826
I'm not sure about any of that...it seems like you're dodging the question. Also, I believe hell is an inherently immoral concept, is it not?
>>746392549
I think my "c"arma may run over your dogma.
I am most certainly NOT catholic nor do I teach much that they do.
>>746393049
I'm not catholic, but I'm pretty sure that's the origin of those beliefs.
god has killed millions of people (many innocent people) and the devil has killed like... 2? lol why don't you all worship satan instead?
also creating a magical god as explanation for our existence only makes sense until you try to explain that god's existence
also also why believe in a god with no proof? wouldn't you rather be right than be blind? the existence of everything makes perfect sense without belief of the supernatural so why include it? because you're scared of death probably
>>746388431
Explain Noah's ark? Anyone with half a brain knows it's not true. And if it's not true why should we believe anything else?
>>746392938
>Disease
I think you're confusing the terminology used. Disease is not evil, it's an affliction. Nearly all modern day disease is man-made.
>Disaster
Surely you're not implying that earthquakes and tornadoes are a form of evil.
>>746392660
Nope a person raised in a Ghetto is not any more likely to do bad thing then one raised in Bel Air.
You are fooling yourself into thinking that you know good and evil, right and wrong.
I suspect you do not.
Do you think that it is a greater sin to smoke a joint or to have sex with a girl on prom night?
>>746392910
I don't either
>>746393137
Alright, evil was the wrong word. Suffering then, why is there suffering.
>>746392938
>God inflicted many horrors on us
Could you elaborate on these 'horrors' you claim that God has inflected upon "us".
>>746393137
Also modern disease isn't man made where on earth did you get that idea? Other than a few weapons zen strains, diseases are natural.
Your doctorine is my question. Pre trib or post trib rapture? Is it once saved always saved?
>>746393157
>smoke a joint or have sex with a girl on prom night
wait you're saying that one of these is a bad thing?
>>746393212
Cancer, viruses, various genetic conditions earthquakes, hurricanes, wildfires...
>>746392949
I didn't either. Took me twenty years. I don't beleive in God as a being. I beleive in... I don't know... mother nature. Existance. just use the word god to describe what I beleive. every other religion uses the word god for the "thing " they beleive.. keeps me from these conversations as to I'm wrong and your right
>>746393157
Statistically you're very very very wrong. They are called ghettoes for a reason.
>>746393157
Neither of those "sins" are bad things really. And I do believe that different role, based on circumstances of birth, are given different chances with life.
>>746393084
Church
>>746393300
I don't think you need to "believe" in anything. I certainly don't and it's just fine.
>>746393326
I meant "people" not "role" sorry
>>746393283
>Cancer, viruses, various genetic conditions
Are you saying God is to blame for the mistakes of men? Do you understand what cancer is? Do you realize how genetic conditions are passed along?
>earthquakes, hurricanes, wildfires
You're under the assumption that God is the one afflicting you with these rather than naturally occurring events taking place.
>>746393330
So because some closet pedo told you something you believe it?
>>746393450
Cancer is naturally occurring. God must have created it, no? Same with viruses. And God created genetics so he is responsible for the various negative mutations and conditions that arise from that.
>>746392906
>'Which means Good is the God of all'
Nice Typo. You're post got me tripping bruh. Good vibes /
>>746393450
Also, God created the world. If natural disasters occur, it's because God allowed the conditions to arise. You can't say he made everything and is all powerful, but say he's innocent when these things happen on his watch. Does he wash his hands of all that?
>>746393450
How is genetics mans fault? That's gods bad design. And genetics is science and science proves most of the Bible wrong. You can't have it both ways.
asking for prayer to get laid, have a better life, a job, support, the strength to let go of things i cling on to, for motivation, inner strength, self love and for friends. Why does god hate me? or at least, why does he make me feel like i was born estranged from normal? why give me depression, anxiety, self hate, bad genes, terrible looks, and a fucked up head that spirals me downward the more i think about it? i feel like a dying old dog that wants to put itself to rest for good,.
>>746392867
You may want to get a hold of Torah.
It is the Books that the OT is based on and badly translated from.
You do understand that initially God was trying to work with the Hebrew people and that when they rejected him he opened up the promise to every one?
Don't call someone a liar unless you have studied and understand that there is far more to the Covenant of Abraham (Hebrews) and the People of Ishmael (Islam) then you actually know about.
I happen to follow the teachings of Christ and consider myself to be a student of Christ.
I do not follow the Pope or Paul nor traditions of organized religion or of Benny Hinn or Joel Osteen. What you know is what God called "the teachings and traditions of man that make void the word of God".
I do work from the Bible for the most part and it is good enough for salvation. But it is most certainly NOT the entirety of Gods word to mankind. If you get a red letter Bible and take from it ONLY the Words of God and Christ you will have enough to be saved and to behave but NOT enough for understanding who we are and why we are here.
Oh and you want to find a book called "The book of the Wars of the Lord"... But you may have to rob a Jew to get it?
>>746392906
cont.
If it was all staged, why? Why create this dichotomy in the first place?
Think of it this way. If you were all knowing. And you have a lump of rock. You know there is silver in the rock. You know there is lead in the rock. You know that silver melts at 1234.93 K (961.78 °C, 1763.2 °F). You know lead melts at 600.61 K (327.46 °C, 621.43 °F). But knowing all this does not separate the lead from the silver.
You have to apply the heat.
Even knowing which part is silver and which part is lead does not do you any good. You still need to apply the heat. That is the purpose of good vs. evil. What we do in the face of ever greater evil defines us as good or evil. Or, more aptly, whether we are good or evil (lead or silver) determines what we do in the face of ever greater evil.
So why not separate the two without heat? Isn't God all powerful? Power isn't like that, even infinite power has limitations. Having an unlimited supply of natural gas does not mean you can separate the lead from the silver without heat.
I'm sure God has alternatives, just as we have alternatives. We can use acid to separate lead from silver - and other noxious chemicals. But one could argue that such alternate processes are even more torturous than simply applying heat. Perhaps God simply chose the least torturous method available.
Of course, all metaphors break down at some point. So there is no point nitpicking the details. It was just a method of aid in understanding.
>>746393486
There is no proof of a higher bing. None. Religion is definately killing many on a daily basis. It's also causing a divide even among family .. daily.
>>746393570
Why was he only trying to work with the Hebrew people? If we're all gods children why wasn't he trying to help us all right from the start? And why did Christ only ever appear in one small region of the world?
>>746388431
Hey it's better than those atheist threads
>>746392906
Did you have a question with all that cut and paste? Can you tell who was speaking in each of those verses to whom and why? (it is very important to understand those three things at all times when reading and trying to understand the Bible.
>>746393623
this higher bing made you pretty stupid, imo
>>746393570
Pffft Jews. 6 million of them die, they receive a tiny sliver of land. Yet claim to be the chosen people. Their word means less than a Christian. Ie nothing.
>>746388431
I am a computer simulation.
>>746393623
Most serial killers are atheists.The ''religion'' that is killing today are Muslims, not us.Atheists families are worst, lower birth rate more abortion and divorce.
why do people keep insisting that the catholic church is christian, when it's an satanistic cult & the whore of babylon?
>>746393757
You have some evidence to back up that claim about serial killers?
>>746393616
if we're all god's children how is jesus christ his only son????
>>746393026
Please restate your question? And remember we have another Anon in the thread who is answering questions and making it very difficult to know who is who.
>>746393757
Yes because they are the majority. And don't continue to do things they aren't happy with because of a fake god.
>>746393809
I'm more interested in the hell question. Isn't condemning people to hell for all eternity immoral?
>>746393378
K. Think we may be in the same page.
>>746393855
Yeah more or less.
>>746393078
Nope the origin of those beliefs is actually from a nondenominational Church and Pastor (Now deceased) In Arkansas...
>>746388431
You still haven't answered my question about Noah's ark? To hard for you?
>>746393883
Right but he was borrowing heavily from Catholic doctrine...
>>746393757
nothing is wrong with lower birthrates, considering mankind isn't exactly an endangered species, and I suspect the higher divorce rates are because these people aren't scared of divorce being a sin, so instead of living miserably they just get their divorce
>>746393757
Maybe I'll agree more muslims are killing in the name of their god. But far more are killed by people who claim to follow Jesus.
>>746393894
I went to the Ark Encounter thing. It's hilarious how stupid the whole thing is.
>>746393623
The Buddhists have a saying.
>if you meet the Buddha on the road to heaven and he blocks your path; kill him, and move on.
The lesson is that you should not let anything or anyone block your path to heaven - not even religion.
When one says, I don't believe in God because of all the bad things done in His name - you are letting the Buddha block your path. Or in this, case, you're letting bad religious men block your path.
Judge religion itself without including what bad people do with it. Just as you would judge the writings of Nietzsche without including what the NAZIs did with it. Nietzsche was not responsible for what the NAZIs did with his philosophy. Jesus was not responsible for what bad people did with his teachings. The gun is not responsible for how it is used.
>>746394001
Right but the teachings of the bible themselves are immoral, just just what people have done with it.
>>746393989
I know. And if we know Noah's ark is bullshit why should we believe any of it?
>>746393111
Much like the epic of Gilgamesh it was a very localized event. The creatures on board were probably limited just to those that would have been present in the Middle East and NOT the entire planet. Its purpose was to destroy the Gheber. These were hybrids that imperiled not just the Hebrew people but mankind in general.
(Like Goliath in the story of David.)
See Genesis 6:4
>>746394031
*not just
>>746393689
>cut and paste
Go ahead and try to find it anywhere else on the internet, bub.
And I know the context and it supports my theory. Do you know the context?
>>746394040
Wait then why does the bible say the whole world? You're contradicting your book.
>>746394001
Tell that to a baby who died by a disease god created.
>>746393084
Who are you asking?
I am OP.
Please reply to this if you actually want my answer.
>>746393807
Not op. Jesus is God's only son in the literal sense of the word. Immaculate conception.
>>746394040
That's not what the Bible says. It says it flooded the earth and had 2 of every animal. So you're saying it's lying?
>>746394092
Read my previous writings. All that is explained - assuming I'm right, oc.
>>746394100
I don't actually want your answer because it'll be a load of crap
>>746393111
Moans ark is a joke.
>>746394147
I didn't see any explanation for what he said, at all.
>>746393497
>Cancer is naturally occurring
Cancer is caused by cells that are damaged but still retain the ability to replicate. The cells were damaged / missing genetic information at some point.
>>746393537
>If natural disasters occur it's because God allowed the conditions to arise
You're assuming that God is at fault for where someone decided to live. Humans have free will to decide where they live. If you live near the ocean, you may get wet.
>>746393564
>How is genetics mans fault
Are you saying that humans have not interbred? Are you saying that humans have not kept offspring that had genetic defects that went on to have their own offspring? Are you saying that the Nephilim were not an abomination?
>>746393570
Intentionally deceiving people is lying.
Christians do not use the Torah as the word of God.
>>746393266
Actually both could be bad.
Do you think either is worse?
>>746394147
Diseases are caused by micro organisms. Living creatures. Didn't god create all the creatures?
>>746394178
Children die by disease God created.
Because that is what God planned for the child before He created the child. Whether the parents are good or evil (lead or silver) determines how they react to this event. This is how good and evil is separated from one another.
>>746393616
>>746393809
Find a private chat if you two want to jerk each other off.
>>746394190
..ok so why did God create cells to,work in that way? Everything is gods creation therefore he s responsible for all of it. And why did God create disasters at all? He could have made the earth so that there are no disasters. You are blaming man for gods mistakes. Also early man would have had no,way of knowing where to live and where not to so that's not relevant at all. And genetic abnormalities occur regardless of interbreeding. Also in your creation story man has to interbreed twice.
>>746393308
You may want to read some of my posts above.
Statistics are most certainly a creation of man.
But good and bad or evil, right and wrong being born in Bel Air does not mean you are likely to be good or to get in to heaven.
Being born in the Ghetto does NOT mean you are more likely to go to hell.
Being in Jail does not even mean you are going to hell. Hebrews 13:2
>>746393570
If God being omniscient doesn't know that he is going to extend the promise to everybody from the beginning then he wouldn't be very omniscient would he?
>>746393567
welp, fuck it. goodbye. I will see you all somewhere in heaven or hell. wherever I end up.
>>746393567
Prayed for you
You have to create these things for yourself. "Normal" train yourself to think and act positive with self confidence. Create the love you seek within and what matters after that will not.
>>746394190
Where does god explain about cancer? How are humans to know about damaged cells if god doesn't tell them? And why would we have damaged cells anyway if we are created in his image? You're saying he fucked up when he made us?
As for interbreeding sure it happens. But it's rare. And isn't uncommon in the Bible.
It also had nothing to do with diseases.
>>746394282
But why kill children at all? Why test people like this? Why test some and not others? How is this remotely fair or moral?
>>746394311
Statistics are a creation of man? Are you serious? You deny basic observable facts about life?
>>746388431
Why are there so many puns in the bible if they're the lowest form of comedy?
Shouldn't godly men know better?
>>746393326
Sin is sin.
Both of those MIGHT be sins or might not.
They are equally bad, but if you leave the girl and do not marry her? It is far worse..
Because in Gods eyes once you have sex with a woman you HAVE in fact married her.
>>746394191
Neither is bad so neither is worse than the other.
>>746394282
But the child isn't evil. Why is the child dying for the sins of his father. Pretty sure the Bible had a verse specifically against that.
And if not I hardly see how that is a god we should follow. Rather than remove the evil he punishes an innocent.
hail satan
Simply. Why does "god" allow all this suffering to happen to good people... children of her all knowing or it... And can fix all?
I prayed randomly and felt like i should go to /b and post this pic and this thread was up. There ya go
Non-biblical-literalist christfag here. I think its dumb to read into a book that has been retranslated and rewritten so many times by imperfect men. If the Bible once was the word of God, it has been diluted by people who are not God.
Questions for OP;
>why does God allow suffering?
>why do clergy claim faith can solve any issue, when that is clearly untrue?
>if the church wants to help the poor, why don't they have shitty tabernacles and fittings so they can sell all their gold ones?
>do you believe that rejecting God is enough for God to reject you?
>>746394397
That's a ridiculous way to view sex though. Sex is a strong natural inclination we have.
>>746394311
No statistics are a creation of science. Which you have attempted to use in some of your answers.
>>746393567
He didn't give you that stuff bro. You and the people in your life have done that. If we all like what limited free will we have in this world then we need to accept the responsibility that we ruin things after creating them. Jesus is willing to help you still though. The friend that sticks closer than a brother. Not op btw
>>746394197
Everything that is, was, and ever will be, was planned by God before the very first word was spoken.
All life was planned, every bacteria, every molecule, the path of every quantum particle - all was known before the very first motion ever happened.
If I'm right, there is no such thing as "free will". Whether you are silver or lead is already known. It's just a matter of separation.
>>746394333
It's just a matter of processing. Nothing personal.
>>746394412
The child serves God by dying. In that case, the child becomes a martyr - does he not? Dying in the service of God? Automatic entry into heaven. Would you be willing to die by horrible disease in the service of God? Knowing you would be so greatly rewarded?
>>746394519
God gives many people bad things that have nothing to do with free will.
>>746394519
In what way does Jesus help? Specifically? He does fuck all.
>>746394100
Why believe that an omni-god created our universe? What proof other than your old scribble book can you provide that will convince me that God made our universe and not something else.
I must admit it does answer some of the unanswered questions about life however without any evidence it has the same grounds as any theory.
I am equally convinced that the universe is an infinitely repeating loop with no start or end as I am that a God created it.
Let me hear your thoughts on this OP?
>>746394519
I believe in God but Jesus not so much... I would gladly did for yours or anyone else's sins. Doesn't make me christ.
>>746394544
A matter of processing? Causing people enormous grief and suffering is a matter of processing? Your God is nothing but a sadist. Killing children to test people. I can't believe you can justify that. If God told you to kill your child, would you?
>>746393668
In the Old Testament.
God had seeded mankind all about the Earth and he was pretty happy with the way most of the Indigenous or Aboriginal people were doing things.
He said after his day of rest that he needed people to til the soil. So he did the whole Adam and Eve thing that was the first Hebrews NOT the first humans. It was the line he intended to one day be born of. But lucifer messed it up and had Cain with Eve who killed Abel.
So he had to start doing all kinds of things to protect the Hebrew people and to guide them to a safe place. Sadly once he did that they rejected Christ and so he had to do something else. But yeah originally he had planned to work just with the Hebrew people. They needed the lesson. NOW we all need a lesson or two, and they are on the way.
>>746394557
A major theme in the Bible is the concept of the scape goat. Azazel, the goat headed angel, used to serve in this capacity for the Jews. Jesus serves in the same capacity for Christians.
>>746394566
Dubd
>>746394546
Did i say that? Did you read what he wrote? God didn't give him those things. It was the truth. My older brother has bipolar schizophrenia so I believe I know what God deals out brother.
>>746394544
So in one comment you're saying their is free will but now you're saying their isn't? Are you retarded?
If god created disease he is fucked up. It's as simple as that. Making some poor innocent baby suffer to a horrible disease is nothing to be proud of.
As for becoming a martyr. Fuck god. Why the fuck would I want to make him feel special?
>>746394653
God gave your brother bipolar schizophrenia. God could have created him normal but instead gave him mental illness. Why?
>>746394294
Again, you're assuming a lot of things.
>Disaster
The Earth as we know it would not be the place it is today without those "disasters".
>Creation story had interbreeding
Actually, this is false. It said that Adam and Eve were made in the image and likeness of God. It never said that they were the first human(oid)s. It is hinted that other human(oid)s existed several times as seen in the story of Cain.
>>746394635
That's a hell of a story. Why didn't God just step in and stop lucifer again? Why didn't he just send Christ through all the world and not just one region?
>>746394638
That still doesn't answer what the fuck had he done for me? I unfortunately have done plenty of my own suffering. Jesus has nothing to do with it.
>>746394607
You as a guilty man says he would pay a price he could not pay. You feel like you would die for us because deep down you stand guilty just as the rest of us. A perfect man dying for the people who literally killed him is something we couldn't truly understand.
>>746394566
Not OP but my understanding of God is a bit different. I see God as in all of us, literally, like some kind of force. Not just us though, every rock and living thing; everything. In that respect I see God more like gravity than a floaty cloud man, a force of nature that our feeble understanding of reality means it gets personified for some reason. In that respect I see biblical creation as the universe creating itself and so my understanding of God is not exclusive from your idea of how this all came to be. We are God, God is the universe, we are the universe observing itself. Not proof, just my opinion, but hope it helps you to see why someone could believe in something like the Big Bang and God simultaneously.
>>746388431
Op what does god think about smoking weed? Anything about it in the Bible? The times are scaring me and making me think hard about converting from atheism but I don't wanna give up my pot, man.
>>746394682
>God gave him
Or he inherited damaged genetic information from past humans mistakes that culminated into said byproduct.
>>746394725
Yes it could have been. God is all powerful. He could have made the earth any way he wanted. He could have shaped it exactly as it is right now with not one natural disaster necessary.
Also, the Noah story involves interbreeding. Also Lot and his daughters.
>>746394789
What human mistakes made schizophrenia exactly?
>>746394725
Hinted doesn't make it true. Or is your interpretation (and whole life) based on hints?
>>746394806
>God is all powerful
Are you not seemingly all powerful to an ant?
>>746394778
Is there anything backing this up?
>>746394844
The bible and all Christian teachings say he is omnipotent and omniscient
>>746394780
There's a million different interpretations of Gods will, but God would rather you be imperfect but with faith than imperfect and without.
>>746394789
How could humans make mistakes? You say free will but if we are created in his image aren't we perfect? Or is god not perfect?
>>746393854
The only one currently condemned to hell for sure is Lucifer.
Some were condemned before Christ was born but during the 3 days that Christ was dead before his resurrection he emptied hell and the Covenant changed to a Promise.
Jn 3:16
Who so ever shall believeth in me shall not die but shall have everlasting life.
So hell awaits those who choose to take Satans side after that KNOWINGLY and no one will be condemned until the "White throne Judgment" Which happens AFTER Armageddon. We do not get judged and go to hell right after we die anymore. That was the old law. (There are some who still try to live by it and so some who could go to hell but I believe God is merciful and "grandfathers" them in if they wish.)
>>746394895
I can draw a picture of someone, it doesn't mean that it is that someone.
>>746392072
>>746393084
Im scared of death. But it doesnt delude me in the fact that the bullshit excuse of athiests saying everything came from nothing triggers me. Something, somewhere created all of this. All of us. Everything. Thinking the big bang? Then what came from the big bang? Another big bang? So weve been just doing big bangs for countless millenias until we got this one? No. That sounds retarded to me.
>>746394901
Right but hell itself is an immoral idea. Eternal torment? Why do that to anyone, no matter how bad the crime? Why such cruelty? Why not simply deny bad people heaven?
>>746394612
That enormous grief and suffering is merely the heat that separates the good from the evil, the wheat from the chaff, the lead from the silver.
It's nothing personal.
>If God told you to kill your child, would you?
If I had to. I beg Him to change His mind, first. He has changed His mind before. Lucky for me, God doesn't deem it necessary to talk to me directly.
>>746394664
I'm not OP. I'm kinda hijacking his thread. Sorry for any confusion.
>>746394753
>What has he done for me
Gave you the opportunity to prove you are good or evil. Not to Him. He already knows. But to yourself and all who know you.
>>746394880
Having all the heat in the universe does not mean you can separate lead from silver without heat. Power - even unlimited power - has limitations.
>>746394682
He used to be normal. When he was normal he beat me up everyday, made As in honors classes, even was the one that I saw Jesus truly change first in my life. The sad thing is that Jesus won't force people to worship Him. My brother walked away like most do. Im not saying that is why he has schizophrenia at all though. If you ask me though schizophrenia seems to be deeper than a brain issue. My poor brother doesn't even get helped by the meds...
>>746394851
Nope, I said there wasn't. The reasons I believe it are how mass works; every atom and particle in the universe once shared the same infinitely small physical space and so we are literally intricately related to stars and trees and whatever; I see it as proof of oneness and call that oneness God. As I said, its my own interpretation and is meant to help you understand how some people see God rather than to convert or anything.
>>746394926
So you're saying god isn't perfect? You aren't god. Your picture means nothing. But gods picture should.
>>746394950
Unlimited power, by definition, does not have limitations. That makes no sense. If he can create things from nothing he can make it any way he wants. And why does that"heat" get applied selectively? Why do,some get tested way more than others? Why test with undue suffering?
>>746394983
If there's nothing to back it up why believe it at all?
>>746395000
No, created in 'likeness' is not created as equal.
>>746393920
No not at all, catholic teach that Adan and Eve were the first humans.
He (And I) do not.
Catholics kind of worship or at least pray to intercessors like the Saints and Mary.
He (And I) do not.
Catholic teach that bread and wine become blood and flesh.
He (And I) do not.
I teach remembrance of Christ, that is when ever you eat? Be grateful and remember what Christ did for you, communion is reserved for Passover and for last rites, predominantly.
>>746394968
But why did God create schizophrenia at all?
>>746394943
Not op but I think maybe god has the same stroke of evil and lack of empathy that many humans hold, in some parts of his being. This would make the statement "we were created in his image" seem more clear. Sorry, god, if you're reading this and I got it wrong.
>>746395091
Right but all the stuff about the rebellion in heaven, all that is catholic teachings,
>>746393894
I think I have answered it now, here >>746394040
Remember you are not the only Anon asking question. I am working as quick as I can to get to the end of the thread. I only have about 15 more minutes and I will have to call it a night.
>>746395116
So god's morals are lesser than our own? Then why worship him?
>>746395067
Personal experiences. I don't expect them to convince you so I'd rather not go to the effort of typing them out, by after a lot of soul searching and visiting different religious places/teachers I came to realise I do have faith after all. Can't expect it to have the same effect on everyone and not saying I'm correct in my belief, you do you bro, just know that for most people faith is more than 'huh duh I guess I believe in a sky man now lol'
>>746388431
>not to insult atheists
>instead to educate folks on things that are actually in the Bible
Right, instead of insulting atheists, you are insulting other Christians. The particulars of the Bible probably aren't going to matter all that much to an atheist, while entire Christian denominations are born out of different interpretations of the Bible.
Show me that the big things of the Bible are true first (e.g. a god exists) and then I might start caring about minor details.
>>746395034
bcos "god" gets off to peoples suffering about as much as he does when watching people fuck
>>746394766
Couldn't understand it cause not even "he" was perfect.
>>746394931
thinking about it makes me want to vomit. its terrifying to try to fathom anything before life. fuck it must have been so dark amd empty. higher being or not, it was still nothing at some point. what dem nothing into something? thats alchemic impossibilities.if you have an empty box, you cant just have an apple created from whatever is in the box. this shit fucking makes me sick, for real. I hate sentience.
>>746395177
Yeah I get you. I just can't wrap my head around believing something with no evidence.
>>746395110
Well watching and hearing my brother for the last year I honestly just think it's a form of possession. I've literally gotten multiple voicemails where he doesn't realize he is on the phone and he is hissing and obviously talking to himself in strange voices.
>>746395175
So he doesn't cause bad shit to happen to you because he has no morals
>>746395148
>all that is catholic teachings
Actually, it's not just teachings as it's in the Bible. Lucifer falls before the events of Eden in Genesis.
>>746395256
You think a well attested to mental illness is possession? Really? All of psychology and neuroscience is wrong? What evidence do,you have that possession is a real thing?
>>746388431
As a Christian, should you even be in this den of inequity?
>>746395192
And i as YES a guilty many would pay that price. Today tomorrow any day....
>>746395261
So this entire religion is fear? You worship him the same way a North Korean worships Kim Jong Un? We all love under a giant dictator and must bow to his whim? How is this a loving God?
>>746394943
Hell isn't quite what the classic Christian imagines. Christianity got too enamored by the writings of Dante.
Think of Hell as a giant crucible where fucked up forgings get melted down for re-use. Now think of your soul as a metal forging. I'm sure you get the idea from there. It's a rough approximation - not to be taken too literally.
>>746395034
Tell you what. If I gave you all the energy in the universe - ever erg of energy that exists. Could you use it to smelt iron without heating it or dissolving it, or otherwise doing anything that it might consider harmful?
Power - even unlimited power - has limitations. You can't melt steel beams no matter how much jet fuel you use. Not even infinite jet fuel can melt steel beams. (heh heh)
>>746395192
Lol out of all that I said you are going to just twist that last part to your liking? Word. In true debate format.
>>746388431
Adam was the first human and he was a granny. And so made He then, male and female made he them in His image. Except note that eve comes in on the next page
>>746395356
It's not a loving god. It's a mighty god and that is all. We must fear and respect him.
>>746394983
Why do you draw that conclusion though? Just because everything theoretically started at one compact point, should that then mean that all matter has some linking force that you refer to as God.
Its a nice idea but i don't understand the purpose to your belief. Without evidence of any sort you're making a large jump to a strange conclusion.
>>746390957
Actually we weren't even supposed to die at first dummy. We are here to be taken care of by God and to glorify him in our ,
>>746395221
I get it, was super atheist for most of NY life. I think the basis of my belief boils down to how scientific method is clearly (currently) insufficient in giving answers to how reality/life came to be and so I put more emphasis on personal experience and belief than strict scientific proof. If scientific proof alone were able to give me the answers I want we simply wouldn't have religions so it's clearly imperfect too. At that point I don't feel bad saying I have beliefs that don't have clear evidence though I'd never go so far as to presume me beliefs to be more correct than anyone else's.
>>746394087
I would suggest you read the 3 letters at the beginning of any reprint of the 1611 KJV of the Bible.
Most English copies are poor translations.
A lot of work is required to understand what was being said to whom and why..
The translator admit that they often did not understand why a certain name was used for God or why a place that apparently did not ever exist or a King who never existed was used. Often it was to protect the Author or the People from a tyrannical King or to mask a location that was important.
Today online even worse things happen for example a Chaldean word that meant a young or small ram has been translated as Unicorn.
There are people out there who intentionally try to pervert the word of God.
You just have to try and locate the right tools and translations to get to the real truth or you may think Adam and Eve were the first humans and that we are all sinners because they ate apples.
Check out Bullinger's Companion Bible and use a Strong's concordance instead of Websters dictionary when you read the word of God so you can learn to "Rightly divide it"!
>>746395365
What's your basis for that interpretation of hell?
If God controls the laws of existence, then yes he can. He controls every single thing according the Christian teachings. He can create iron out of thin air, no smelting needed. Your argument is essentially that he isn't nearly as powerful as people think. Which doesn't go with the creation story at all. Or any other story.
>>746395300
A life of living with a person of the mental illness. Literally my closest relative I will ever have has it. You need to face that science and medicine don't have the answers. The medicine doesn't help him it just makes his eyes roll back in his head and he cries. A thirty yr old man begs for mercy. You know nothing about what you speak of.
>>746388431
How many facts or paradigms shifted from a scientific one to a biblical/religious one in the past years?
>>746395476
If it's a perfect book why does it need so much interpretation? Why didn't go make his book easy to read and understand?
>>746391329
We arent angels. Angels are clearly other elohim. If you think man becomes an angel when he dies and was before life you're reading a different book than the rest of us
>>746395426
See
>>746395472
>>746395177
I agree its a jump and its not logical but I'm not saying it has to be, or that its correct. Its just what I believe.
>>746395491
I've lived with mental illness myself, I can tell you that you're simply wrong. You have no basis for your claim. Just because his current medixine doesn't help doesn't mean it's a demon.
>>746394164
Not a problem. I won't waste any time on it then.
But why did you stop in this thread?
Do you accept evolution as a scientific fact? How do you deal with the many contradictions in the bible?
Also, assuming youre religious, why do you assume youre right, and not the buddhists or muslims for example? You all have the same amount of evidence in my opinion
>>746395542
Correct, which is why I called him out on it up above: >>746392867
>>746395606
>contradictions
Could you elaborate?
>>746395491
Science didn't figure it out yet, therefore god. Again the god of the gaps..
>>746394190
Ref 3570
Umm The OT is the Torah, Psalm 22 was written a thousand years before Rome was ever founded..
I suspect you have very little idea of what Christ actually taught folks, but hey keep on talking maybe some one will listen?
>>746395659
contradictions: a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.
>>746395606
Not OP but the modern bible is the word of man, not God, so it is imperfect. I'm Christian but I believe all religions have the same end point and are just different ways of expressing the same message, like many roads going to the same destination. My religion is as valid as a Muslim or a Buddhist or whatever.
>>746395659
There are so many...
https://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=contra
>>746395342
Ok someone jumped in your confused on my point but yes he was guilty also.we arent argueing alone here just reslized.. sorry. But I would die for any anon deserving.
>>746395683
Yes, and Christians do not follow the old testament. Also, you're making bogus claims of men being/becoming angels.
>>746395699
Yes, care to actually mention one.. or.. just play word salad.
>>746394290
I am OP..
Please feel free to start your own thread...
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya... (!)
>>746395478
>What's your basis for that interpretation of hell?
It's a metaphor - not to be taken too literally, anon. Strip away the romanticism of Dante, and you end up with a pretty vague description of Hell. Yes, there is fire and brimstone, yes there is gnashing of teeth and wailing. But the description of the place is pretty vague beyond that.
And remember, I believe Lucifer is working for God this whole time. So when it says Lucifer presides over hell, and will be cast into hell forever, it's not really telling us much about hell itself.
>>746395580
He has been on all the medicine. If my brother is thirty that means he has had schizophrenia for eight years roughly. You already knew that people get diagnosed of it in their early twenties though I'm sure. You know so much. I never said it was for sure a demon anyway. I said it was my opinion which from what I have experienced by listening to his doctors is just as valid as theirs.
>>746395110
alien+man created it to stifle and fuck up anyone that is great.
>>746395706
Pick a few, we'll talk about them.
>>746395700
But why? If the bible is flawed, what foundation does Christianity have to stand on?
Fascinating:
Joe Rogan Experience #974 - Megan Phelps-Roper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOnefFVBEb0
>>746395772
No, doctors are using science and have studied this issue for years, your subjective experience is not as valid.
>>746395787
Okay...killing? Okay or not?
What about being punished for parents sins?
How about being saved through faith vs. Good works?
>>746388431
What gender does God identify as?
>>746394372
Statistic reflect what ever the statistician wants them to say or be, not at all like real Science which is observable and provable.
Well to be fair simple statistic can be used as proof.
But to say some thing foolish like a man from Bel Air is more like to end up in Heaven then a man from Harlem is ignorant.
Christ came seeking lost sheep and spoke directly against rich men.
>>746395822
>joe rogan
Fuck off cunt
>>746395794
(I'd be excommunicated for this but I don't think it really does shhhhh)
Religion is just a way of reaching some understand of the world. I can be Christian and not believe a lot of it, because what I do believe is more important. Doing good by others, a relationship with God and the power of community is more important to me that every niggle I find in the Bible, and there sure as fuck is a lot of them.
>>746395669
But I thought science has figured it out yet? See that's the problem you wholeheartedly believe that people consumed with themselves as a whole have figures out all these things they say they have. The meds are suppose to work, but they don't. The only thing that doctors know for sure is that schizophrenic people eventually kill themselves.
>>746395881
I'm saying that people from poor communities are often driven to,lives of crime. Sociologists, psychologists, and others have extensively studied this. The fact is not everyone is given an equal shot at life. It's an uneven playing field.
>>746395700
I would really recommend you to read: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. You assume something quite big about the universe without evidence, thats okay, but Id recommend you also put some effort in the other side. People need to organize some critical thoughts against their own held believes.
Many more books qualify of course.
>>746394409
Not true.
Pharmecopia is a sin as is Promiscuity.
And almost all sin is the same only one sin stands above and beyond all others and luckily you can not yet commit it.
>>746395944
That's not at all the only thing they know for sure. Treating mental health issues is a relatively young science, just because it's still developing doesn't mean it's not true or valid.
>>746395882
Its a a conv with an ex westboro baptist church member.
>>746395986
They may be sins in your book but neither is an immoral act.
>>746395866
Christians follow the laws in the new testament. Many people outside of the faith fail to understand the old testament was for the Israelites.
Which versus are you talking about (The books, chapter and verse).
>>746395884
Then why be Christian? Why not just be a good person?
>>746395960
Thing is, it doesn't matter in the end as this life is nothing compared to heaven. Nobody complains that babies don't have rights, they're just babies. Compared to life in heaven, we are but babies.
>>746396016
Well when I talk to the doctor I'm blunt. So I get sentence responses such as "the only thing we know for sure is they eventually commit suicide."
>>746395944
>The meds are suppose to work, but they don't.
So? What does that mean? Just that science has not figured it out completely or that there are more questions to be answered or what? What are you implying? How many facts or paradigms shifted from a scientific one to a biblical/religious one in the past years?
>>746395881
It I said more likely. Statistics say so. And as much you you choose to ignore then they're much more factually based than the bible.
You say anyone can make up statistics. Yet ignore the fact the bible is just as easily made up. And thanks to modern science is proven as made up.
>>746396074
You can't just annul the Old Testament, Jesus never says to do that. The New Testament doesn't invalidate the old. Check the link I posted, I, not gonna copy and paste every verse.
>>746395966
Read it bro, its a great read. As I said I've done a lot of research and soul searching and come to the conclusion that you can have an understanding of reality that's based in both evidence and faith. I believe in evolution, the big bang, whatever; I just also have personal faith and belief. I know where the line is drawn between logic and faith and I'm okay having some from both sides. I'm probably a lot more rational than you're assuming. I'd recommended you take part in a religion in earnest for a while and see if you reach the same conclusions; a rational mind surely wants to seek to be disproven and you'd be validated if not.
>why isn't god with us?
>if god is with us then why aren't we happy?
Not gonna see a legit answer and this thread is a mess with many keks
However my thoughts is our nature is crap and the struggle is real but also the struggle is fiscious but also the struggle is real. Some humans suck dog dick like not literally but yeah also literally. Implying there's lots of lead out there. If everybody was silver we'd see a different world, but with the nature of humans i couldn't see that like even in the distant future
>>746396115
Okay you're judging all of,psychology by one shitty doctor. Sorry your doctor sucks but he doesn't represent all scienc.
>>746396117
No I was saying that science claims to figure things out, but they don't work. People "believing" that science works is merely the only thing making quite a few of their theories "true" at all.
>>746396105
Semantics. It's easier for people to understand how I practice religion if I qualify myself as Christian, but I don't really put much weight on that. Call me whatever.
>>746396193
Nah I have talked to more than one bro. I like how you are making sure I covered my logical bases to draw this conclusion though.
>>746396220
That seems like a massive dodge. "Im going to be a Christian and if there are things that make no sense I'll just not believe those parts".
>>746394566
I have no proof other than that scribble book..
Or perhaps a few links here and there on the net..
Unless I include a specific verse most of what I say is like anything else you may read. It is IMHO..
But one thing I say that most will not?
If I mislead you I will take the blame, free of charge. (Unlike the Pope, Benny or Joel, and most other Pastor's or funny hat wearing Experts.)
I will make every effort to share the Books and Sites I read to back up what I say when asked.
But ultimately Christ I am sure will be glad to pay the bill for BOTH you and I... Unlike this guy >>746392906
>>746393616
May peace be with you.
>>746396220
Seems you're only quoting Christian beliefs. If it was you who quoted the Torah explain the holocaust? Why did god let that happen?
>>746396271
You talked to every single one? You extensively studied psychology? You have a medical background?
>>746396157
No one said to annul the Old Testament, but Christians are not bound to follow the laws set forth for the Israelites.
>Check the link I posted
I am asking you to back up your claim that the Bible contradicts itself. If you're not going to post the contradiction you claim exists then there is little I can do.
>>746396208
This guy: "science doesnt work"
Except for everything that fucking works in this world and your phone. I seriously doubt you have a good understanding how science works and why it is the only method that works for finding or getting closer to the truth.
>>746396275
He's right be a real Christian. What did you ask him originally that he dodged? I will rep the bible.
>>746396275
More 'I'm a person of faith, but the only place of worship I have access to is a church'. Calling myself Christian in this kind of setting is a quick way of letting people know I read the Bible and pray for example, but I'd just as happily take part in other religious services or even none at all.
>>746396323
Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)
Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, . . ."
vs.
Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
>>746396348
Explain Noah's ark?
>>746396333
I didnt say science doesnt work. You people like to choose which words you read alright. I mentioned science theories require believing. Quit being triggered cause it made sense.
>>746396371
Goooot hiiim.
>>746388431
look i know this isn't gonna come as a surprise to you because nothing will cuz you'll be dead, but when you die, nothing happens. what you live by is your parent's parent's parent'sparent's parent's parent'sparent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parent's parents lie to try and control you and keep you justified in your little window of existence. nobody exists on purpose, nobody belongs anywhere. everyone is going to die, so i dont know why you chose to live in constant moral restraint and fucking cautiousness over something that has more evidence to disprove it than you can fit on the pages of all your bibles.
>>746396298
It wasn't me anon. I mainly study Buddhism in private practice but go to church as its the only place of worship near to me.
>>746396427
Science is true whether or not you believe it
>>746394740
There are at east 3types of souls.
We all learn in different way and believe different things..
Christ said "in my Fathers Kingdom there are many mansions". And so there are..
Lucifer is done for but God wants to save each and every one of us. I imagine he knows how that can best be accomplished' I have great doubt that either the Pope or Joel Osteen have even a slight inkling of how that can be accomplished..
Still today too many try to close the gates Christ threw open.
I try very hard NOT to be one of them.
>>746396361
I see. I'm not sure I get it but ok.
>>746396427
Yes they require believing. But they have facts and evidence backing them. The bible does not.
>>746396333
What do you even mean when you say science? Scientific method? Technology and engineering? Seems you throw the word about without really knowing what you mean to say.
>>746396427
Its not about believing anything, its about predictions and evidence. Im def not the "science is a relieve system too" train.
>>746388431
Rapture is so nice . I can't wait till we're all shooting up EVE's and little sisters are running everywhere
>>746396323
Why did God gave one group different laws? Why are there two sets of laws for humans?
>>746388431
What do you think about guys like Deepak Chopra?
>>746396498
Cheers for accepting it bro. Happy to clarify if you'd like to ask anything, didn't mean to be confusing or obtuse or anything
>>746396527
*believe
>>746396480
I can't even make heads or tails of,this. You didn't even try to answer my question.
>>746396449
Seems pretty insincere. "I don't follow your faith but I'll hang out here in case my gods listening".
>>746396385
I have heard it preached before that they could have been all been baby animals. Really though noahs ark isn't what you should be hung up on. We also believe he fed over 5000 people with two fish and a loaf of bread. It seems crazy to all of us humans though I get why you think the way you do. Believe it or not I am very skeptical of things in general.
>>746396609
I mean it's really not possible even if they were baby animals. No way any of that could happen. Also none of the stuff in Exodus happened. Or several other books.
>>746396371
For a start, use a better translation, KJV is rubbish.
The first set of verses is what God does, while the second set relate to what humans should do (or not do, in this instance)
>>746388431
There is no proof god is real
>>746396448
As a Christian I think that would be a nice death. I don't believe in Jesus to help me sleep better at night or not fear death. I think it's a common misconception
>>746394943
Listen a very dear friend once said to me.
How do you know what hell is?
Has God said something about it?
Did Christ?
What I know is that God said he is the Creator AND the Destroyer. For all I know God is also the Lake of Fire.
Hell will be an eternal torture for those who deserve such, For others it will be a merciful end and nothing but oblivion... I don't think that Joel Osteen deserves to suffer for ever because of his greed, but I don't think he deserves a blissful eternity either. But hey lets leave the punishments up to God and try to strive for the rewards instead shall we?
>>746396605
Not quite, I see religions as having the same underlying message and by extension, God. Different languages expressing the same idea. I go to church for the same reason you'd speak French in France, its just the local language. I have a different understanding of God to some people there but I believe it all earnestly.
>>746396609
Doesn't matter if they were baby animals. It's impossible. And in many ways babies would of made it much much harder.
As for not taking it literally, who picks and chooses what bits to take literally and what bits to take with a grain of salt?
You would think an all knowing god could make it black or white.
>>746396478
Ok Neil Degrasse Tyson.
>>746396676
Translation has nothing to do with it. And why are the standards different? Why does God punish people for their parents sins?
Are jehovas right for not accepting blood transfusions? Or vaccinations? Is a religious ground enough to mistreat their kids?
>>746396478
Jesus is life wether or not you believe it
>>746396691
Nobody deserves eternal toruture. Nobody. To ttorture is immoral. You God is immoral is he does that.
>>746388431
How can you possibly believe your religion is absolutely 100% correct and contradict thousands upon thousands of asians who have their own faiths and scriptures. I believe in something higher than humanity, but I'll never be so jaded as to think that the Bible holds any more truths than anything else does.
>>746396727
Haha. Jesus was just a crazy guy though.
>>746395183
>you are insulting other Christians.
That certainly may be true?
But I teach what Christ taught and not what men in funny hats do..
I often correct my brothers in Christ you see they have agreed to be held to a higher standard. As I have said who gave them the right to slam closed the gates that Christ opened?
>>746388431
So what miracles do you believe in? Who are real prophets? Who really talked with god? What supernatural events do you believe in?
>>746396822
No you teach how you personally interpret it. You are no better than the men in funny hats.
>>746396371
Let's stick to one translation of the Bible. For clarity we'll use the YLT (Young's Literal Translation).
Exodus 20:5 "Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third generation, and on the fourth, of those hating Me,
Exodus 34:6-7 " and Jehovah passeth over before his face, and calleth: `Jehovah, Jehovah God, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in kindness and truth,
7 keeping kindness for thousands, taking away iniquity, and transgression, and sin, and not entirely acquitting, charging iniquity of fathers on children, and on children's children, on a third, and on a fourth.'
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that doth sin -- it doth die. A son doth not bear of the iniquity of the father, And a father doth not bear of the iniquity of the son, The righteousness of the righteous is on him, And the wickedness of the wicked is on him."
You need to take into context who is talking and about what. Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never being held against the sons. Moses was talking about the consequences of the fathers' sins being passed onto their children. That is two separate things.
>>746396654
Word. I never said its not possible I haven't received myself. It's unlikely because I would rather the truth not be true because then we really were created for a purpose and what we do and how we live and speak matter. That's kind of heavy on a person. Which is why the jews never could get it right. You literally can only do the will of God if you read his word and pray daily.
>>746396899
Are you of the opinion that there are no real contradictions in the bible? If not, what would you say is one that doesnt make sense?
>>746396722
>Translation has nothing to do with it
Then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
>>746388431
What's your opinion on the dead sea scrolls? Did you dig into it?
>>746395309
We til the soil where ever we are called.
I have been on 4chan very nearly since the beginning, and most certainly on the Internet since then. I was an early adopter when Windows 2.0 was still a future thing. My first BBS ran on DOS 4.0 - Wildcat and Galaticomm for the win.. :)
>>746396899
So YOU personally are saying the same word, inequity, means 2 different things? Who do you think you are?
>>746396899
Exodus is clearly saying that God hold the next generations accountable. And who the fuck is Young? Why is his translation better?
>>746396767
No one deserves torture? By who's standards. I guarantee someone could do something to someone you love and you would change your opinion. You think as an infant. You don't understand your crime and therefore think the punishment is too harsh.
>>746396983
Really? Most of these passages have the exact same meaning regardless of translation. Are you to say your translation is correct? Who is anyone? What's the correct translation and why?
>>746397029
But I thought god was merciful and forgiving? You can't have it both ways?
Seems more like he is vengeful and unforgiving.
>>746397029
You can't guarantee that at all anon. You speak from how you'd act, not the person you responded to
>>746396722
>Translation has nothing to do with it
Maybe not with this verse, but with many others.
>And why are the standards different?
Because we are not God, simple as that
>Why does God punish people for their parents sins?
Good question. I could try to do some mental gymnastics and say how we are still guilty of having the knowledge of good and evil, but I'll just say that God's punishments don't really matter in the long run
>>746396691
Hell isn't real; what you consider hell was a total fringe theory until the 400s with Augustine of Hippo.
>>746397029
Really? I think as an infant because I dont beleive torture is an acceptable punishment? You think like a sadist.
I'm a Christian and op is not the guy to ask. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>746397029
God works in mysterious ways? Really?
>>746397139
God gets a different standard just because he's god? He has no morals, hr can do as he pleases? That's hardly moral.
>>746388431
I love you
>>746396971
I'm not saying contradictions cannot exist.
>>746396991
You need to read better.
>>746397003
Moses is talking about the consequences of action. Such as - A father comitting a sin that is passed on to the son. A current day equivalence could be a situation where mother could pass on aids to a child.
Ezekiel is talking about the action that the mother did (sin) will not be the child's fault, even though he must live with the free will made by its mother.
>>746397055
It's not "my" translation, and it is a well known translation.
>>746397146
Enlighten me then because so far im being told hell and torture are moral and god can inflict as much suffering as he wants.
>>746397192
I dont personally believe in God, but yeah I'd say the creator literally does have a different standard for morality than humans.
>>746397145
No one is torturing you. You do it to yourself. You WILL NOT be able to plead that you never heard the words or had the thoughts. You think like an infant because you think you stand justified.
>>746397283
for I, Jehovah thy God, am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third generation, and on the fourth, of those hating Me,
Right there, it's god doing it. Moses is not talking about consequences. That is God punishing the next generations.
>>746397029
>by who's standards
Why, the standards of a loving and forgiving God, and by the standards of someone who strives to be like God
>>746397192
Nobody cares how moral someone acts to characters in Sims
>>746397288
If i were to create something, from nothing, I could torture and torment it as much as I wanted, and that'd be no problem?
>>746397283
AIDS? Really? You're talking about a disease. Which back when the book was written they had no idea about. Neither parent would know they have aids. How is it anyone's fault it was passed on?
>>746397294
God created hell, he is doing to torture. I don't think like an infant, you can name call all you want. By your standard, I'm more moral than god.
>>746397163
It's not mysterious. Say something your mind comes up with for once because that's a corny played out joke if you know more than two atheists. I was just saying you do it to yourself no one sends you anywhere. You expect to never listen to your father's words and get in the will? Not that you should just listen to your father to get in the will either though.
>>746397464
Who told you that God created hell, a place where humans are tortured forever and never let out? It wasn't the bible
>>746397522
The new testament speaks of hell. God must have made it, he created everything.
>>746395375
>>746395458
Skipped as not serious and I need to get to bed before work comes around.
>>746395542
Hebrews 13:4 Revelation 19:10
Read more post less..
>>746395606
Evolution is a theory but more accurate then 7 days. The truth lies some where between what is in the bible and what Science clams. To be sure the Earth is millions or even billions of years old. Mankind is not IMHO.
I am not religious I am faithful..
I do not condemn others for their belief.
though I certainly do often interrupt when they teach something I disagree with, as a fact.
>>746395629
And Now I quoted verses. Maybe you too need to read more and post less?
>>746395763
Ref 5683 The OT is as much a part of what Christ taught as is the New. If yoy don't follow it or at least understand it then you are milk toast, and will be decieved when the Anti-Christ finally arives here on Earth. believeing lies like Rapture or not understanding and so being fooled when a Super NAturla being arrives and claims to be Christ here to Rapture you away yet is lieing.
Yep the World is full of fools and false Xtians, sadly who will not bother to read and yet wiggle their fingers and type and deceive others with lies about Adam and Eve and apples.
Pay attention, here in this very post you have been given KEYS that men have sought for ages. Will you be wise or will you type more expert posts and ignore the simple truth?
>>746397502
Father's words should have been more clearly written, not have contradicted themselves, and actually been good words to begin with.
>>746397364
Again, you're proving how little you know. Moses wrote Exodus, and if you actually read more than a single verse you would understand the context of the book. Moses was talking about consequences, not threating people with God's wrath.
>>746397404
If you were all knowing and all loving, yes, because all your decisions would be from perfect knowledge and up most concern for those you created. How your creations see it and whether they agree is secondary because they don't know everything or love endlessly.
>>746397607
Moses did not write Exodus. There is no evidence of that. There is no evidence he even existed. I've read all of Exodus, and that passage is open to interpretation. Who are you to say your interpretation is correct?
>>746397572
>Maybe you need to read more and post less
Maybe you need to not teach false doctrines.
>>746397641
If he loved us endlessly he wouldn't allow us to suffer or banish us to hell. Those aren't the actions of a loving god. The bible speaks often of god's wrath. Entire tribes get wiped out by him, all of earth at one point.
>>746397675
>Moses did not write Exodus
Wrong.
>>746397286
Well you are to God as a baby is to you. Except an even bigger gap on intelligence of course. Now if you tell an infant not to eat snacks before dinner because you know what will happen does the infant suddenly step outside of itself and evaluate how it's wrong? No the child justifies it's actions and tells you that you are wrong. Does that make the infant right just because you are making it "feel" like you are being a meanie head? If your answer is yes then that explains your frustration.
>>746397738
Yeah I agree, I was just giving you an answer to your earlier question. Biblical God is a right dickhead but you didn't ask about biblical god, you created a hypothetical.
>>746397767
Show me the evidence.
>>746392906
>Isaiah 45:7
Poor interpretation of the verse. "Evil" does not mean moral evil, proper interpretation is disaster or calamity. Now that makes more sense with your next verse. The Jews and Muslims believe that God is the God of both Good and Evil. Christians believe that God is God of Good, but capable of unleashing evil (disaster) on the unrighteous.
>Lucifer in heaven
Adam was the rightful ruler of the earth. He was given "dominion" over it. In Genesis is he seen directly communicating with God. The Heb 1 mentions that God created worlds, with an S. Job talks about a heavenly council "Sons of God" from these worlds, Adam was also called a Son of God. This was probably a council of (forgive my ancient alien tone) extraterrestrial patriarchs. Now when sin entered the world, Adam forfeited his dominion to the devil. Paul mentions the devil being the "god" of this world (2 Cor 4:4). One of the reasons Jesus came to this world was to cast out the "prince" of this world. Jesus, became a human to reclaim the human dominion from the devil.
>>746397810
Sorry didn't mean to do that. Even in the hypothetical it would be wrong though.
>>746392906
>>746397825
Continued:
> Existence of sin
Problem with existence of sin or it's origin is we are not all-knowing. Is sin an inevitably? Would sin have existed if Lucifer was never created? I do not know. However, I can tell you why its existence is allowed, just for now. You see, this is the devil's great experiment, these past couple thousand years are nothing compared to heavenly time, and it must be allowed to it's conclusion. The devil's argument was it is better to live free from God's laws. He was so eloquent that he deceived a third of the heavenly host. Now if God destroyed the devil and his angels right then and there, what would that say to the remaining angels? God could destroy everything and start anew, but that is not His character. So the devil was allowed his experiment only if man consented, and they did - they disobeyed God's law. However the devil lost when Jesus was killed on the cross, living a sinless life, and because of His sacrifice, the universe will be rid of sin. Sin and suffering will end, even death and hell will eventually be destroyed by God (Rev 20:14). And God's perfect creation will be restored.
>>746397789
Right, but I', not inflicitng suffering on the baby and telling it that it was for its own good
>>746397811
Show me the evidence that he didn't.
I'm depressed and I need to hear God but i can't hear him. Why wont he speak to me?
>>746397553
New testaments speaks of three things that can be translated into Hell.
One is Tartaros, where Satan and his demons have been kept since the events of Revelation happened. No humans, just containment for fallen angels.
Another is Hades (Sheol in Hebrew), where every dead human was kept, until the events of Revelation where they were taken out and sent to Heaven and then Hades was destroyed forever.
The third is Gehenna, the name of Jerusalem's dump. This one refers to partly the literal place, and partly where the less good/believing people go. Not a set place, but rather a scale of how luxury heaven is. Still heaven tho, and still a nice place.
Finally there is what is usually translated as "lake of fire" where those who weren't in the book of who did good and who did bad in life. Bad people don't go to the 'lake of fire', just those who aren't in the book at all, i.e. imposters posing as human
>>746397919
I'm not making the claim that he did. Your claim, your burden of proof.
Applies to all of this really.
>>746397855
I dunno, I'm sure a doggo could argue the vets is torture as he couldn't understand the context. I'd imagine human suffering from God/Gods inaction would be similar, as God knows all and loves endlessly.
>>746397954
See, your own damn book can't agree on the answers to these questions. How is this a consistent doctrine?
>>746397811
YLT
Exodus 3:6 " He saith also, `I [am] the God of thy father, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob;' and Moses hideth his face, for he is afraid to look towards God."
>>746397997
What context exists where extraordinary pain and suffering caused by disease and disaster is justified? The vet does what he does for good, easily understanable reasons.
>>746397934
The rapture (sorry OP for bringing it up) has already happened, and because of that, there no longer is, or needs to be, any divine intervention. On the other hand, there are real human people who you can talk to and get help.
>>746398035
You cant cite the book saying he wrote it. There are many books in the bible scholars agree were written by someone other than their supposed author.
>>746398044
You're asking me to elaborate on a position of infinite understanding and knowledge. I can't tell you for the same reason a dog couldn't explain the vet and ants couldn't explain the person with a magnifying glass.
>>746398035
>>746398099
Which is referenced in:
Mark 12:26 "`And concerning the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the Book of Moses (at The Bush), how God spake to him, saying, I [am] the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob;"
>>746398035
"This post was typed by Moses because it says so right here in this post" See?
>>746398002
I don't see the problem, these are all different things. Except for maybe the lake of fire and tartaros, those are probably the same thing
>>746397913
You are telling me that the baby doesn't think that it is suffering? You are telling me that your response wouldn't have some form of "it's for your own good"? Feelings are subjective. They can lie. Your feelings tell you that God is the bad guy instead of being honest with yourself first. Seeing the wrong you do and have done. Then noticing it in other people once you start to fix yours. Most people that call themselves Christian do the same thing you do homie. You are in much company.
>>746398135
>>746398099
No, I meant to do it as one post, but submitted it early. I'm a little tired.
>>746398124
That's a cop out answer. Any theological question can just be dismissed with "he's all knowing and knows better than you"
>>746398175
God is a bad guy if he allows pain and suffering and condemns people to hell. That's not feeling, that's basic humanist morality.
>>746397934
Read the bible. Even if you don't believe it at first. Start in Matthew and enjoy the story and contemplate and entertain what it means if it were true.
>>746395960
That is mankind's fault and not A mans fault, you will not go to hell for stealing a loaf of bread to feed your hungry child, you may go to jail though.
You probably will go to hell if you own two houses.
Ruminate on that.
>>746396060
Actually sex with a young woman and then leaving her is pretty horrific, you make her less than she was before if she was a virgin.
>>746396146
Ah another expert. Science has disproven not a single thing that God or Christ said which is in the Bible... Though probably quite a lot that Other men have claimed as what is said in the bible. Levi was not an Expert nor was Paul. Perhaps listen to God and Christ rather than any others?
>>746396597
I did try,but perhaps you are not meant to understand? As I said I am a student not a teacher. I am sharing things here that many will NOT understand. We can ask why God does things and hope for an answer. That does not mean the teacher in front of us has it. Keep seeking don't give up your search just walk by the teacher and find some one else.
>>746396872
I don't expect you to pay me.
And I accept the blame if I mislead you.
I think I am pretty different.
I will quickly peruse the rest of the thread to see if anything really important has been said or asked.
But I really must catch a few winks before work so this will probably be my last post.
May peace be with those of you seeking truth and love. In Christs name I pray...
>>746398225
Good thing that he doesn't condemn people to hell
>>746398131
Same problem...you're citing the book to prove claims in the same book
>>746398185
Not a cop out at all, I honestly don't know because to tell you I'd have to know everything. Neither of us could comprehend it, so all I can do is throw my hands up and admit that. Anything else would be speculative or a lie. I can give you some bullshit if you'd prefer but I'm not sure what that'd add to anything.
>>746398280
Yes he does? It's in the bible
>>746398301
Again, you have no answer so you assume god does.
>>746398262
Your views on sex are really backwards man
