The ridiculously un-democratic Electoral College has given us Bush and Trump. And THIS is why. What's wrong with ONE person ONE vote?
>>712776094
i'm with you Anon. The electoral collage is a joke.
>>712776094
>>712776395
more lib tears pls
>>712776094
It wouldn't matter. I live in NY and would have voted for Trump but didn't bother because this is a hard blue state. There are more hard blue states than hard red states. Clinton is winning the popular vote because red voters in blue states are more silent than blue voters in red states.
>>712776094
Because you consist of 50 states and each state has it's own agenda. The Electoral College is to stop areas of incredibly high population from controlling the elections.
>>712776094
good thing we're not a democracy
>>712776094
What i like about all of this is this. If HRC would have won the Presidency, suddenly the Electoral College is alright, no fraud or miscalculations.
>>712776094 majority bias.
If California voters vote had as much meaning as wyoming then we would be acting upon mainly Californias environment . Typing on ps4 dont care to elaborate further; But this answers op question srsly
>>712776094
its also given us the butthurt crybaby who started this thread.
>>712777070
Of course. No one (including Trumptards) ever bitches when things go their way. You DAMN WELL know Trump would have been screaming bloody murder about the election results if he had lost.
>>712776395
sad pathetic little man you are.
>>712777070
WRONG faggot. You act like this is the first time people have complained.
>>712776788
>>712777186
/thread
>>712777232
yawn, still calling people names.
>>712776094
Because Democrats have manipulated the voting system by flooding the country with ilelgals and making it illegal to show any form of ID proving you're from this country.
if you dont see the problem with that then you're a problem, a big problem, a problem that requires killing on mass.
Speaking of killing, you liberal faggots must be sooo upset that you wont get your white genocide in the western world.
>>712776575
but he won ny
>>712777232
the future of America kek
>>712776521
It could affect you fucking rednecks, too.
>>712776094
Wyoming omg burn the constitution
>>712777412
>a problem that requires killing on mass.
It's "en masse". Go back to school.
>>712776094
Because mob rule and voter id laws.
Fix your shitty voter id laws so less than 3 million illegal immigrants vote and we'll talk about it.
>>712776788
But the areas of incredibly high populations are where the people are. What's actually happening is you're letting the idiots that don't want to move to civilisation ruin it for everyone else because, for some reason, their vote counts more than civilised folks.
>>712777558
yawn. your butthurt could affect me????????
>commiefornians
>people
>>712777625
But what about states like Commiefornia that give IDs to illegals?
>>712776094
it's a system for equality among the 50 states, not plurality of the average unintelligent masses
a state with a coast line has different interests than a land locked one. geographic regions have various advantages for production and resources.
>>712777558
>puts duty before personal gain
>fags like you still complain
I'm a poet and I didn't know it,
you're a faggot.
>>712777688
yawn. millennials are so selfish.
>>712776094
Because it's meant to be undemocratic. Most Western countries are not democratic.
>>712776094
Well that's what you get for living in California, you sacrifice your votes worth. If you really cared that much about your vote you'd live in wyoming and have a better say about your pick.
>>712777743
We wait for Poseidon to remove them.
>>712777820
1979 actually but whatever
>>712777232
Not true you uneducated dipshit. Trumps entire campaign was geared toward winning the electoral college and not the general population. He is smarter than Hillary Clinton, and it shows. Look at his campaign stops versus hers, and why he knew it was important to hit small towns all over the rust belt and midwest.
The EC worked exactly as it was intended too, and Trump won damn near every county
>>712776094
because 705454 opinions from one location is not more valuable than 194717 opinions from another location. why the fuck would wyoming be in the union if they werent aloud a voice? think before you say something stupid
>>712776094
We don't want mongoloids from California deciding every election
>>712777945
sure kid
>>712776094
Because whats good for rich commiefornians who send their taxes to an offshore bahamas bank account isnt good for the hardworkers of the farm belt.
>>712776094
Despite the trolls, this isn't a partisan issue. This concerns the Republicans too. It's their country as well, even if the left out-numbers them. So why shouldn't they care for improving their own so-called "Democracy."
>inb4 it's not a democracy, it's a republic
Those terms are synonymous in Burgerland.
>>712776094
That picture would have a point if it was the popular vote that matters. As far as which one is more important, you would have to be an idiot to think California is in any way less important than Wyoming.
>>712778282
yawn. can't take losing, don't vote kid.
>>712777807
I like you anon. MAGA
Get rid of the electoral college and presidential nominees will only pander to states and cities with large population. California, Texas, New York and Florida would be the only voices that mattered and the only issues that would be addressed would be those related to their life and culture.
The whole point of the electoral college is so that Wyoming and smaller states can have a voice at all and have their concerns addressed.
>>712778097
You don't think Trump supporters would have been screaming and yelling if he had won the popular vote, but lost the Electoral vote?
>>712778405
they would also make promises they would never keep.
muh popularity contest. muh free
>>712778159
>mongoloids
That place which has 10% of your people and 16% of your gdp.
That place which has silicon valley
That place where the smartest people from around the world gather
Spot the republican
>>712776094
so.. is this the freeduhms that retarded americans can't stop yapping about?
>>712777558
almost there need a few more tears
>>712778518
sweet tears. more please.
seriously kid if my side lost I wouldn't be here.
>>712778169
>Implying that all people of California are rich
>Implying rich people wouldn't benefit more from buying electors in the electoral college.
>>712778383
I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton either.
>>712778595
spot the butthurt.
>>712778405
Then they need to change how many votes bigger states get to make it more fair. Like instead of 55 votes Cali should get like 70 or something.
>>712776094
because without the electoral college every election will be heavily biased to urban areas.
the electoral college offsets that bias.
>>712778404
I love you in a completely nonhomosexual and only slightly sexual way brother. The tide is turning and the commies, globalists, and braindead zombies are shitting themselves.
>>712778760
Not even american bro.
so freeduhms
such democracy
wow
>>712778688
never said you did.
seriously is everyone born after 1991 a retard?
>>712778518
I do not because I believe Trump voters are smart enough to know the election is decided by the electoral college and not the popular vote. It happened 16 years ago, and most Trump voters weren't wearing diapers in the year 2000.
>>712778786
aww we need to make things how I want them
>>712777688
so what you're saying is that if 6/8 of the pop is white and the rest r black the whites can vote for slavery?
>>712778805
Why are there so many counties in the east half of the US?
>>712777688
"they dont look, act, and think like me.... fuck them."
>>712778848
like I care.
>>712776094
Actually, this info is out of context because the allocation of the electoral votes is based off of Congressional seats. The minimum number of electoral votes regardless of population is 3. One for House and 2 for Senate. Wyoming could have 200K as a population and still get 3 electors. Look at a state with a population more aligned and the numbers even out.
>>712778805
I think all states should get equal electoral votes so that one state doesn't outweigh another and all states have their voices heard as a collective rather than one outweighing the other. Each state's concerns are equally as valid as the next. Not crying or complaining just my 2 cents.
>>712778976
you're to stupid to understand.
>>712778518
Pure supposition at this point. If I give you a "yes", will you agree that acting like a Trump supporter, especially after all the negative assumptions about them, isn't something you should strive toward?
>>712779005
cared enough to reply twice rofl
>>712778976
because there is stuff there. those larger counties in the west are vast areas of nothing
>>712778976
That's where people live. Idaho can get away with having 3 counties because it only has about 43 citizens.
>>712778989
Hillary supporter right here.
>>712776094
>>712779038
no its crying.
>>712779038
you cant be this dumb
>>712777945
Lol I'm not the dude you're arguing with but it's even more sad that someone who's almost fucking 40 is on 4chan arguing politics. I'm literally half your age and far more emotionally mature than you.
>>712779127
sad and shallow.
>>712776094
lib tears
>>712779226
sure kid.
>>712779179
I would grab that granny by the pussy and fill her barren womb with my seed
>>712779038
but the states already outweigh each other on population. states with more people already get more say, the college offsets that
>>712778282
There is a time and a place for these discussions, between the election and the inauguration is not the time or place for this. Want to change the system start in February, because right now your point is weakened by a bunch of whiny bitches.
>>712777412
Go put your tinfoil hat back on
>>712779129
>>712779131
thanks for the explanation
>>712779095
fuck you bro
>>712779302
Did you not see OP's picture?
Also it's grossly disproportionate
>>712779328
there will be no change. just the standard liberal bitchfest.
http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/news/local/election/hillary-clinton-voters-speak-out-against-donald-trump-win-at/article_a3e8ca7f-bc3e-585d-817c-51248be8e5c5.html
>>712777688
Almost got me
>>712779335
>implying he's not 100% correct
Well except about the killing. you don't need to be killed, you need to be woken up to how brainwashed they've got you.
>>712776094
The USA is not structured like a single nation. It is more like a coalition of 50 small nations, the electoral college is a reflection of that. While there is argument for having states give out their electors in a representative manner within their states the idea of 1 person 1 vote is dumb.
This would centralise the US even more and disenfranchise smaller states. Unless the US gov decided to oppress those states they would simply choose to leave the union and the USA would loose most of its territory, resources and a big chunk of population.
remember that we are talking about a country of 300,000,000 people here. a simple popular vote wont hold it all together, they have to be decentralised. Now while the electoral college is unique to the USA, pretty much all other large democracies have decentralised systems. Take Germany and Russia for example, both are federations where the states have a lot of power.
>>712779424
sad and pathetic kid.
>>712776094
it's because of the big Lie, dumdum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878fUL92YSc
>>712778870
Only through socialization... participation trophies have failed to teach an entire generation about losing gracefully. Until a couple weeks ago a Democrat under 29 hadn't lost a Presidential election in which they could vote.
Not surprising they are chimping out.
>>712776094
>>712776521
>>712776788
>>712777793
>>712778405
>>712778805
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k
This video explains it far more eloquently than I could.
Your electoral college system is as fucked as our First-Past-The-Post system (UKfag with an interest in international politics here).
For example, I might not have agreed with our EU vote, but the majority wanted to leave. That was fair and decisive.
>>712779335
he's right tho, illegal aliens don't represent my vote. I guess you're ok with being a cuck to them just like europe.
>>712776788
so as to enable areas of low population to control the elections? genius logic.
>>712779205
Really don't understand what's such a bad idea about this. The electoral college already partially does this. They go about it differently, but they basically redistribute votes into different proportions based on population density. Care to enlighten me?
>>712779278
Nothing personal kid
>>712776094
because if we didn't have the EC then the most populous 30 cities in America would decide the president every year.
Why is there so much complaining about the election? When obama won a lot of people disliked him but i feel like it wasnt this bad. Like there werent mass riots (that i know of at least) there were protests obviously but not like this. Are all liberals this whiny and spoiled to the point where they'll throw a fit if they dont get their way? Shit man at one point in your life you gotta grow up, and realize life isn't fair.
>>712779666
true. one of my fathers favorite sayings was "you have to learn to lose".
>>712779491
using the numbers in ops pic every vote is worth three times as much in wyoming,
but california has 66 times the amount of votes.
>>712779762
sad and pathetic. try bleach.
Lol retarded hillary supporters cant figure why we have electoral college. USA consists of more than just the loons in CA and NY.
>>712776094
More Americans voted for Trump, get over it. After you take out all the deceased people who voted, and illegals who voted, Trump won by a landslide.
>>712779131
>Idaho can get away with having 3 counties because it only has about 43 citizens.
44 counties actually and population near 2 million
And here is how elections would look without the Electoral college.
>>712776094
United States means a Union of States, not one big state. Its really pretty simple
>>712779888
you had a great dad
>>712780039
jesus, look at how many votes canada and mexico get
Oh shit guess I was the one who didn't see it correctly, my bad
>>712780158
Kek
>>712780158
look at all those illegal alien votes!
>>712776575
This. I agree the electoral college is shit, but It's hard to say what the result would have been if the rules were different.
>>712780034
more people live in my county than live in your state.
>>712776094
This is a republic fuckwit
>>712776094
Because having 1 state outweigh the next 30 states combined is also not a good system.
>>712779901
Oh shit my bad I guess I was the one who didn't see the picture correctly
>>712780033
...do you have sources or proof for this? Otherwise you're just being as angry as those 'libtards' you're going on about just because your guy didn't get the popular vote.
>>712780039
>And here is how elections would look without the Electoral college.
How does that happen exactly? Without the EC it would be one man-one vote so the map would be purely geographic.
The fact that there are more Californians than Arizonians(?) doesn't mean the minority votes count for less.
>>712780039
as it should be.
>>712780033
The point is that that's not the case, that's what this fcking thread is about u fag.
>>712779885
When you paint the other person as literally Hitler, anyone that believes you will freak out.
It's sad that we wasted "Literally Hitler" on a guy who is demonstrably not a racist (he might be a nationalist, but he truly doesn't seem to see race). If we get a guy who campaigns on eradication of minorities instead of improving the economic status of minorities, the term "Literally Hitler" will have lost its shock value.
See also "The boy that cried wolf"
>>712780034
A FUCKING POTATO
>>712776094
We don't live in a democracy you fuckstick. We live in a constitutional republic.
>>712780389
Enjoy your campaign platform of policies specifically designed to benefit urban residents at the expense of rural americans.
Like "lets nationalize all farms to lower food costs for urban populations"
>>712780039
No you are a retard, here's how the map would look without the electoral college
>>712779885
they never got told "no" and that they did something badly most of their life, so yeah they're pretty much spoiled
>>712777186
who the fuck goes on 4chan on a ps4
>>712780441
implying you can know his true beliefs regarding minorities. usually white nationalists try to keep their profiles low as to not be targeted by the general public. they usually reveal themselves by how they talk and Trump has all the words that leads one to think he's definitely a racist.
>>712780680
>map
>elections
>>712780375
The points is that the interests of only a few states matter if popular voted is used. We are a republic of states that joined together to form a country. The states themselves are more important than individual citizens.
>>712780499
Consider, if Idaho was the first state to hold primaries we'd have 'big potato' instead of Iowa and 'big corn'.
We'd be using potatoes to help power our vehicles. Could we engineer potato syrup and put it in everything? Probably... it would be a weird world where every politician has to kiss Idaho's ass before the election.
>>712780680
i dont think you understand the concept of population density
>>712780441
>literally Hitler
stopped reading
>>712780742
Please, tell me one racist thing Donald J Trump has said in his 70 year life. Hardmode: no fake quotes
>>712780726
I know, I use my Wii U
>>712780941
>>712776094
And at the end of the day California still has 22 times more electoral votes than Wyoming does and has a significantly larger impact due to it's larger population.
>>712780680
No, because the states wouldn't have joined the union if they didn't feel they had fair representation.
>>712780959
This.
>>712780375
My god.... You cant be that dumb, those states get all those votes because they have higher populations so the majority of people in those select states would control the elections giving the people who live in less populated states no voice
>>712780959
"I'm racist"
- Donald Trump
said it to me just yesterday
>>712780940
Pray tell, oh enlightened one
>>712780441
I guess thats true, but at least Hitler boosted Germanys economy greatly. His intentions were wrong with the jews and all that, but you have to admit he was a great leader. Still though i feel like these riots are a bunch of 2 year olds throwing a fit cause they cant get the candy they wanted. Im not into politics, but i think id rather have Trump then Hilliary any day.
>>712776094
guys, the problem isn't so much the electoral college. It's first past the post voting. The UK and the US needs to purge that shit, and join the rest of the civilized world, where parliament actually reflects the votes of the people.
>>712779038
If you could somehow redraw the state lines so that each state had an equal amount of people that would make sense.
>>712780940 The dipshit probably lives in a city somewhere and never left, has no clue how it is anywhere else but where he is from.
>>712776094
First off you dumb fucker, the United States is a democrat republic, not a democracy, so dispel any notion of that from your mind.
Second, different geographic areas have different needs and different cultures. In the spirit of diversity the electoral college gives all geographic areas an equal say because of the cultural differences. Do you believe that California is different than Kansas? Take away the electoral college and nobody needs to win anything but the west and east coast just due to population density. Leaving elections up to homogeneous areas is actually a dangerous thing because it removes the option to get things checked by different opinions and typically yields one sided and self destructive decisions.
Finally, pure democracy doesn't work... ever. It always yields to mob rule and intimidation tactics. Do you want to live in that kind of a country, because if so then sure let's just pitch out the electoral college.
>>712781182
>parliament actually reflects the votes of the people.
If americans cared about being represented in government, they wouldn't have elected a 70 year old billionaire to the presidency with a media baron as his chief of staff
>>712780904
I personally think the Hawkeye Cauceye is very overrated but I do support the creation of more potato vodkas so you may be on to something here.
>>712780959
You know, those things. Also Mexicans.
Trust me I work for CNN, hes racist
>>712781170
ok, i'll try and keep it simple.
more people = more votes
those states have most people.
popular vote means those states control the election
>>712780959
That's easy. He literally called Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals:
"When Mexico sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," he said.
"You have people come in and I'm not just saying Mexicans, I'm talking about people that are from all over, that are killers and rapists and they're coming to this country,"
In June 2016, Trump suggested that a federal judge presiding over a fraud cases against Trump University wouldn't be able be fair because of his "Mexican heritage." "He's a Mexican,"
There's plenty...And that's just the Mexicans, there's plenty of Muslim racism too.
>>712781140
Damn, wtf I hate Trump now
>>712778097
This is fucking cringe.
You are effectively arguing that gerrymandering is a good thing, and that it's fine to have the minority rule over the majority.
Do you even democracy?
>>712779885
Well it wasn't this bad because Obama is a good guy who ended up going on to be a good president. That's the difference tbh.
>>712781422
Would you argue that Mexican lawyers, doctors, and priests are the ones coming here illegally?
If you asked that judge what race he was, is it possible he would describe himself as Mexican?
Is Muslim a race or a religion?
>>712781422
Is Mexican a race or a nationality? What about Canadian? Are there any white Mexicans? Black Mexicans?
Is Muslim a race or religion? When Bill Nye talks shit about Christians is he being racist?
Do you know what racist means?
>>712780742
The problem is that facts don't support your case. At this point you are being forced into delusion via cognitive dissonance. You believe two opposing things and your brain is desperately trying to hold them both in the same reality.
The result is delusion... and we are starting to laugh at you.
>>712781058
But California has about 60 times the population of Wyoming so it should have 60 times the electoral votes. If Wyoming has 3, California should have 180 electoral votes.
>>712776094
What is landmass/resources/production/economic value?
There are people that actually own land, farms (impacting all Americans), mines (again), production facilities, ect.
You don't live in Wyoming unless you are a miner, farmer, landowner, ect.
California may produce more, may have more people, and hell, it's even bigger. But don't lecture anyone about how the electoral college favors right-ists in the late because they want to give Wyomingites a chance to have an impact in the electing given the often understated value of that state, and not also find a parallel in "affirmative action" and all this minority favoritism.
Besides, the average Californian is scaled right about to size in this picture by how much they are worth/contribute when compared to the average Wyomingite.
>>712781376
I know you're making a joke but Mexico is a country not a race, just for future reference.
>>712776094
That's the whole point. It gives each state power in the United STATES. If we didn't have this system and it was directly proportional to the population CA/NY would decide the election for the entire country.
There's a reason the founding fathers chose this system. Research what happened to Rome. They based our system on it.
>>712781630
Okay he should have said "bigot" instead of specifically racist, but you get the fucking point.
>>712781617
>>712781630
You guys got him there.
>>712777049
UNNNNNNNNDERRRRATTEDD POST.
THE US IS A FUCKING REPUBLIC, GET IT INTO YOUR TINY ATROPHIED LIBERAL BRAINS, TAKE A FUCKING CIVICS CLASS, WE AINT ANCIENT ATHENS YOU DUMB NIGGERS JESUS CHRIST.
>>712776094
Because you're one of the retarded unwashed masses that cannot understand what equality really means.
Go Fuck Yourself. Everyone has already explained the how and the why. You're not smarter than the founding fathers with your useless gender studies degree.
>>712781803
You get the fucking point
He's not racist
Keep trying
>>712777232
he also would have campaigned much differently if it was based purely on the popular vote. You can't change it AFTER the fact. What a fucking laugh. They campaigned under the idea that the electoral college decides. Trump won. So what? You're going to go "Oh now it's popular vote, sorry Trump"
>>712777777
>>712781881
MDE fan detected
My man
>>712781795
Then how did Bush win the popular vote in 2004 with California and New York voting for Kerry?
>>712776094
A direct democracy gives you shit like the episode six of black mirror...
Besides, it's about states rights. America is a confederation/Union of states, not a giant federal body like say Canada.
>>712781803
Bigot still doesn't work. Bigot just means intolerant, which is exactly what a lot of these liberals are.
>>712781991
Texas offsets California a bit
>>712779538
Get rid of states and run things at federal and county level: remove the useless middle tier.
>>712781516
It's called a republic, bro. And the president doesn't rule over individual states. Each state uses popular vote to pick their own governors, federal reps and senators, and local govts. Each state is its own entity. The republic's fate is decided by the states of that republic.
>>712782043
I like (You)
If you haven't already, look up Scott Adams(of Dilbert fame) current writing project. I appreciate his PoV on what makes these rioters tick.
>>712776094
The president is the representative of all 50 states, not just 4-5 highly populated ones. What's good for one state might not be in the best interests of another, and that's why all states have a say in who gets elected.
>>712782209
Get the rope...
>>712782209
Fuck off, the last thing this country needs to do is give the federal government more power.
>>712781755
wyoming's gdp doesnt even scratch california's. 500K faggoty ass cowboys and fat taterhead rednecks cant compare at all and are so insignificant to the economy that we could probably import all of their retarded shit from south america for cheaper anyways. and we probably do. fuckin rednecks think they fuel the country just because they dig up some tin and make a few burgers.
>>712776094
Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of things retarded with the USA. Just the way it is.
>>712778805
That implies people living in urban areas are somehow less important in a vote. In which case you have abandoned the principles of your declaration of independence:
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal
>>712782368
No, that's the first thing we need to do.
>>712777688
So you would be ok with mob rule if they were all fascists, then?
yhea, didnt think so.
this system has worked since man sailed the seas under wind power and it will be working long after your worthless ass is dead and gone.
as if hillary would even piss on you if you were on fire in the street.
stupid fuckers.
>>712782209
>Canada 2.0
>>712779131
Actually, Idaho has 44 counties
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KebAvf7ni1c
>>712782403
Except people of color, non land holders, under the age of 25, women...
Just because you are created equal doesn't mean you should govern shot outside the 4 walls of your home.
>>712781678
Having 1/5 the needed electoral votes for a candidate is more than enough.
>>712781876
That idiot doesn't know what being a Republic means
>>712782403
no, but they arent more important either. so why do you believe they deserve more representation
>>712782403
The popular vote in each state decides literally every type of election, and even how the state votes for president. But the representation in number of votes given toward the presidential election is decided by OTHER STATES WITHIN THE UNION WHICH HAVE AGREED TO THE SAME RULES. Don't like it, tough luck. You aren't a member of the republic so you don't directly choose.
>>712782213
But you do not live in a confederation, and so your state can't opt out of the US. And you are fine with having a federal government that is chosen by a minority of people?
Nevermind who won the election this time, that's done, however you don't think the US should even strive to have a representative democracy?
>>712781422
Now pretend Canada is a third world shithole, with millions jumping the border to live in the US. We'll call them "maplebacks"
Then assume he said this
"When Canada sends it people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
and
"You have people come in and I'm not just saying Canadians, I'm talking about people that are from all over, that are killers and rapists and they're coming to this country,"
and this
In June 2016, Trump suggested that a federal judge presiding over a fraud cases against Trump University wouldn't be able be fair because of his "Canadian heritage." "He's a Canadian" he said.
Not racist. Wake up.
>>712782984
This wouldn't happen though because Canada is mostly white. Fucking racist retard.
>>712776094
>implying the USA is a democracy
>>712776575
>data plz
What makes you think dems don't vote in Sisterfuckersville, Alabama.
>>712782871
>Think the US should even strive to have a representative democracy?
No.
Smaller government?
Yes.
whats with this racist shit? who cares about race anyway? hellooo? wake up left side? we cant buy houses anymore? our kids cant go to 60K per year college anymore? da fuck happened this election? all i heard was muh feels bullshit.
>>712782386
I didn't say ore and produce were lucrative, but the point is that they are an integral portion of the country, with a land area approximately 60% the size of California, and is obviously terribly underpopulated. Liberals would, in my opinion find the idea of "uplifting" a peoples (in this case Wyomingites), yet use hypocrisy when arguing their position
>>712782871
The state can opt out if it votes to do so. Just not an easy process.
We do have a representative democracy for choosing Congress and other members of our state. The president is the president of the Union of States, not the People. That's why the states choose, not the people themselves.
>>712782871
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
I'd prefer to not live under direct mob rule.
Out constitutional Republic was organized such that it considers the will of the majority but tempers it and slows implementation.
>>712782517
No pro sports teams or good colleges however
>>712782738
No, I argue that any persons vote should count the same regardless of them living in a rural area or in an urban area, and regardsless of them living in a swing state or not.
>>712782625
The why did you declare independence?
>>712782849
Yeah, but state borders aren't drawn on the basis of fair representation, but rather it's rather arbitrary, based on historical reasons. Take california. It's a huge state, and plenty of counties in the state could go republican, but all those votes are lost, so there's little incentive to vote in California. If California was 5-6 smaller states republicans would likely get some mandates from the area. The same goes for Texas, just the other way around.
The system your having only makes sense in a confederacy. If you are truly one country, you should abandon it.
>>712783302
I believe the civil war sort of settled the whole succession arguement... I don't believe we will see states leaving anytime soon.
>>712783336
At least one good college sports team though. Boise State. I don't live in Idaho but had to throw it out there.
>>712780158
best post of thread
>>712777186
Well it's what the majority of people wanted... so fuck off if you want to live in a shitstain of a state like Mississippi. You like food, Movies and iPhones? Do what California tells you bitch.
>>712777558
After Bill Clinton left office, he settled one of the sexual abuse lawsuits against him for $800,000, saying it was just to clear things up and move on with life, and it was not an admission of guilt.
>>712783302
Dude... Congress is NOT representative of the people.Having a parlaiment that is representative of the people means having seats allocated by percentage of the vote. NOT on who won some county, or gerrymandered district somewhere.
>>712783311
And your "Democracy" is one wolf and a pack of sheep. Democracy isn't perfect, it's just better than all alternatives.
Are you really willing to argue against the institution of democracy, simply because you like the guy who won this time round?
>>712777743
What the fuck are you on about? What shit did your Neanderthal brain absorb from breitbart this time?
>Complain about electoral college
>Use worse version of electoral college in democratic primaries
Democrat logic
>>712783597
OwO *notices your ignorance*
wh..what's this?
>>712779666
Pfft
You are heavily implying that Republicannots aren't upset when they lose an election
>I recall vividly that they were in 2012, insisting that the antichrist had taken over AmeriKKKa
>>712783950
Democrat here. I wish I could say you were wrong but when you're right you're right.
>>712783476
Correct. But the Civil War was about much more than one state seceding.
>>712783950
Dem superdelegates doe
>>712780039
>>712780389
>>712780644
Yeah but you people don't realize that currently Presidential campaigns only focus on eleven states for their electoral votes. So people in favor of the EC lose anyway.
Besides, if you don't want people to think of the USA as a Democracy, then maybe you should stop calling it as much and just refer to it as a liberal republic.
>>712783464
Just because all men are created equal doesn't mean all men end up equal. Or that all communities regard the same things equally.
"Why did you declare independence?" Is a question for the people who declared. I believe it was because of unequal treatment under the law. This can be separated from governance.
If those governing make a law that all sales are subject to tax, but then setup businesses and don't collect tax (or face sanction) while prosecuting neighbors for doing the same.... that's governance exempting itself from law.
I believe that the grievances with the crown originated with unequal application of law. Once they decided to scrap the system they built the best they could.
A system where a qualified voter pool elected representatives... since then we've expanded on who is qualified.
>>712784007
you' tell 'em, champ. These retards have clearly forgotten all of the mass riots, criminal violence and property damage angry conservatives inflicted upon their communities both in 2008 and 2012.
>>712783915
It is representative under the terms of which the states joined the union. If they didn't agree, they wouldn't have joined. They system was designed by people smarter than you that cared about the health and longevity of the republic, as well as individual states.
>>712783915
We dont have democracy. The founding fathers didnt want democracy specifically because it was mob rule and dangerous, so they implemented our constitutional republic to separate mob rule from people having a voice.
The only real problem with it is the presidency itself, because it demands that half the country be ignored regardless of the outcome
>>712782031
>>712783302
Guys, the US is not a confederacy, and states cannot leave. This was decided by the supreme court in 1868.
You live in a federation, which is not the same.
>>712783131
>euh huh uheuh euhu uheh small government means less oppression
Daily reminder that the smallest form of government you can have is a tribal despot.
>>712783147
But you can still do that, what are you talking about?
>>712784356
So much of my this.
>>712776094
But who wants to live in Wyoming tho?
>>712783476
SECESSION, NOT SUCCESSION
NOBODY WON A PRIZE FOR ANYTHING
>>712776094
Where the fuck were all of you Dems and your crying when the DNC was telling everybody that Hillary was the winner when Bernie obviously had far more popular support in the primaries?
>>712783500
True I forgot about them, but really they are only good at football. That blue field is pretty sweet, I'll give them that
>>712783915
You are a bit retarded aren't you? This is a constitutional republic. This is not a direct democracy. I've said direct democracy is dangerous and probably best avoided. I said this 4 years ago, and pretty consistently since civics class (and later constitutional law class).
This isn't about who won or lost to me. This is about you whiny bitches trying to throw out a reasonable system because you can't believe you lost.
>>712776094
Federal system. We are a conglomeration of states, not a singular nation. If California wants to renegotiate, they can. It's called secession.
>>712784227
>if you don't want people to think of the USA as a Democracy, then maybe you should stop calling it as much
The media says that, in order to get clicks and sell advertising. Its not in the constitution
>>712776094
I would agree if you evict all illegals first and then restore sanity to immigration policies within current law.
Globalization is a crock, we don't play on an even playing field, the other nations get relief from environmental and personal safety laws, another Democrap "dream"
>>712776094
>fewer people, don't get your way
Mob rule! You can't take my rights!
>more people, don't get your way
Majority should rule!
Lib logic
>>712784621
DINGDINGDINGDING
>>712776094
bruh land ownership gets you more of a say obviously. Think about the ranchers out in wyoming that own hundreds of acres. they are the ones that truly count. not the stupid fucks renting an apartment in LA working a shitty job that really doesnt contribute much to the economic base. imho its fair
>>712776395
collage?
>>712784522
I don't, because I'm a liberal, but Wyoming is really beautiful. Tbh there's a long list of places that would fall below Wyoming on my list of places to live. The entire southeast, for example.
>>712781678
>>712781755
>>712782386
While the EC is flawed, it's not a good idea to have massive swaths of the country where people feel they can't possibly have a say in government because of the massive population centers. New York and Cali and Texas would not prosper the way they do if they were islands sitting in the middle of the ocean.
Much of our country's foundation is designed to prevent a tyranny of the majority.
>>712784543
He would have lost even without the superdelegate fuckery, but it was still a black mark on the primary process.
Its not one person one vote because Califorina, New York, and Florida no not get to choose who the leader if America is... also i thought we all agreed Florida doesn't get to deside things any more, an the account that nothing good happens in Florida
>>712777192
he's a furry demorat
>>712783941
I hope the Department of Motor Vehicles isn't too right wing for you.
>>712784246
>Just because all men are created equal doesn't mean all men end up equal. Or that all communities regard the same things equally.
Not but any reasonable interpretation should mean the people should have the same rights. Taking away peoples representation because of borders on a map absolutely seems to violate this.
The beuty of democracy is that the vote of the homeless counts as much as the billionaire, however in your system you are creating privileged voting classes based on more or less arbitrary geographical boundaries.
I still haven't heard any good argument for why some guy in Txas should have less representation than some guy in Ohio, or New Hampshire.
Because, if we did, the party that would have won the presidency by electoral college but lost it to popular vote would demand that the electoral college come back.
>>712776094
>>712776521
Don't give a shit who one the election. One mans vote being worth 4 times as much as another mans doesn't sound very democratic...
>>712777445
try again
>>712785009
Clearly didnt' care enough to read much of this thread, either.
>>712785009
>who one
Please tell me you're using voice text. I mean voice texting a 4chan post is extremely gay but better than the alternative.
>>712776094
>What's wrong with ONE person ONE vote?
Simple. The candidates would ignore every other states besides New York, California, and Florida and just promise those three states all they wanted in return for their votes and the rest of the country would be forced to live by the standards of those three states regardless of how badly it turned out. The electoral college insures that a prospective candidate must put in the effort to gain the support of as many states as possible (thus ensuring everyone gets as fair shake as possible, even if only a little).
The popular vote damn near bankrupt the country shortly after its founding because Virginia had the highest number of registered voters (roughly 400,000) and kept voting to put all the taxes into infrastructure into their state alone leaving every other state in the union penniless. The electoral college has ensured that congressional representation and tax distribution has worked out for as many citizens as possible for over 200 years.
>>712785009
>Don't give a shit who one the election.
>who one the election
>one
I guess I see why.
if we want to be really fair POCs should get counted as 5 votes for every 3 POCs to make up for our undemocratic past.
>>712785120
Huh. Really takes the word "Democracy" out of the term "Jeffersonian Democracy".
It's strange how Republicans can exclaim that they have a mandate and are ruling by will of the people when they could not achieve the popular vote.
Good job.
>>712784288
Everyone who chose to join the Union are dead and gone. And the system wasn't designed as a perfect utopian system for eternity going forward. It was designed to fit specific conditions more that 200 years ago. And it was probably the best option at the time, but times have changed! We can do better today.
Purely mathematically, we can design systems that better represent the will of the people. "It's always been this way" is not an argument. You are maintaining status quo just for the sake of it.
>>712777625
They shouldn't be here anyways. We pay for the border patrol and ice and they are always in the news with how they arrested 300 illegals. Go to any Home depot parking lot or hell, put a soccer ball in the park and then they can be surrounded like roaches and sent back.
That they were even here is a crock.
>>712776094
U.S.A. isn't a democracy, friend. Who cares if something is undemocratic?
>>712785292
I agree.
We need to reduce the voting power of all black citizens back to 3/5ths of one Normal person. This is a great idea you have going. Fantastic suggestion!
>>712785157
>>712785117
hahahhaha shit i'm too high
>>712785442
You can count me as one vote for "I care".
>>712784744
Yeah... It's a piece of art they have in the electoral college, and it's absolutely shit.
Pic related.
>>712785476
You should ease up on that shit anon, it's clearly no good for you.
>>712785278
America is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. And i already exclaimed why the popular vote doesn't work.
Good job on ignoring facts.
still mad cause the best candidate won? the fact that they were so close in popular vote throws your logic out the window
>>712785502
Then go to a democratic country. USA never was supposed to be one.
>>712778973
Well, for once the demorat has made a sound proposal. On second thought, the niggers don't work and we'd be stuck feeding and housing them.
>>712776094
This is an 18+ website
>>712785521
These are all illegals and need to be deported
>>712777558
Looks like the exact opposite of an admission of guilt to me. And if he had fought the lawsuit, you unscrupulous fucks would bitch about that instead. What he does literally doesn't matter at all, y'all libs are gonna cry because that's your default state.
>>712777688
>their vote shouldnt be equal to mine
>I'm liberal
Pick one
>>712778405
That analogy is like giving people who live in the more rural parts of a county 3 votes so they don't get run over by the townsfolk. It doesn't really give them a vote and just pisses off the townsfolk. What really happens is that the swing states get all the pandering and the full red and blue states get nothing because they are locked in. If every vote counted, they would have to campaign where the people are instead of where the country is the most equally split.
>>712785848
Consensus has been reached. The electoral collage will be deported to mexico.
>>712785899
Nice dubs faggot
>>712776094
Because a republic of states is not the same thing as a people's democracy. The government is structured so that faggots in New York and California can't ruin the lives real Americans.
>>712785463
The 3/5 clause was designed to prevent southern states from gaining too much representation and ruling the country by themselves. If it hadn't existed, slavery probably would have persisted much longer than it did. The 3/5 clause wasn't there because of racism.
>>712785830
>The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
>>712781573
>hasn't even taken office
>already not a good president
The mental gymnastics you libs must do just to get to sleep at night...
Wow, liberals acting like we didn't just have a fucking decade of democrat rule, after a decade of republican rule, after a decade of democrat rule.
It's almost like the system is doing it's fucking job.
Maybe next time instead of desperately looking around to see if anyone is noticing you sitting for the pledge of allegiance to get attention you'll fucking pay attention and notice it says "And to the REPUBLIC for which it stands" and not "And to the democracy for which it stands" and quit pretending like you just fucking learned this because your butthurt whiney ass can't handle a loss.
You god damn crybaby bitches.
Maybe next fucking time you're scared and mad at the government that doesn't have your interests in mind for having too much power and not having the means to fight against them you'll fucking realize that YOU IDIOTS FOUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN, REMEMBER?
You have no one to blame but yourselves. You're all about systems to give minorities a voice until the moment you realized that it doesn't always work in your favor and you don't get to tell everyone else what to do.
>>712779728
Well, as a uk fag, the reason the colonies split from your ass was we were taxed without any say. A vote from a citizen from a smaller state in population is just as important as someone's vote from an overly populated state such as NY or CA. The lifestyles of those states are vastly more conservative than the highly populated states. If I was in one of those sparsely populated states I would quickly vote to secede, just like the original colonies.
>>712786286
I'm not in those states but I'm in Seattle so basically same thing. How would we ruin your life?
>>712776575
You dumb nigger. Cali is consistently 55-45 while Cousinfuckabama is 70-30.
There is no hope for blue in the south and parts of the midwest not named illinois, wisconsin and minnesota.
Ny, Cali, Washington, and the northeast are blue strongholds. The south, the west midwest, and the upper rockies are red or dead. It always comes down to Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and now Georgia kinda.
So under this system dems dont even bother addressing the issues of the red states and vice versa. Its all about swing states. Thats it. Its a totally fucked up system.
>>712785463
How you got this from what I wrote is a complete mystery to me.
>>712776575
>didn't bother because this is a hard blue state
Nice ... you just bought the mainstream media brainwashing plan
How does it feel to have two digits IQ ?
>>712776094
actually, the average californian is a little smaller. considering it's made up of a bunch of low-t faggots, it's not surprising.
>>712776094
Were you also complaining when Obama won the primaries the exact same way?
No, because people who did were called racist.
>This system has always been that way, you only point it out now because it could mean a black president!
>>712786672
$10,000 per hour minimum wage for starters
>>712786250
lolz
>>712785003
Each state has a minimum of 3 representatives regardless of population. If u don't control the upper limit of representatives from a state, the number of reps grows endlessly.
If you don't like how Congress is determined for the republic, you probably don't like the Senate either which gives each state 2 senators. Maybe we just get rid of congress and the senate too because you don't like the electoral college?
>>712776094
>What's wrong with ONE person ONE vote?
It would deny me the opportunity to laugh at hipster faggot tears like this.
>>712778595
>90% illegals
>>712779888
they are democrats, they are born losers
>>712787397
Okay Cletus.
>>712776094
We're a republic, not a democracy.
And why should NY, TX, and CA rule the majority?
>>712781422
Muslim, Mexican, neither are a race, but that doesn't matter when you're a libcuck.
>>712787488
Well if they ARE the majority...
>>712778595
just because you are "making the world a better place" by creating instagram for cats, doesn't mean you're "smart."
>>712787584
Mob rule
our government is meant to protect against that
>>712786896
Well, yeah! Most democracies have changed to have just one chamber of parliament which is representative of actual votes cast. This means that it is open to more parties (a result of ditching first past the post), and peoples opinions get better representation in politics.
I think the main reason the US as two chambers was because they emulated ancient Rome, or possibly the British upper and lower house. Regardsless it is an objectively bad system, if the goal is to have the will of the people represented in the governance of the land.
>>712787584
This might shock you. But 51% of people in 3 cities making rules that only work for cities just destroyed life for the other 49% of the GIANT FUCKING country that has absolutely nothing in common culturally or economically with them.
Sorry 160 million people. Majority wins! You get no say!
>>712787678
No, it would still be a representative democracy with a constitutional guarenteed rights. It would simply mean that the people governing would be what PEOPLE voted for and not based on geographical oddities.
>>712787678
Mob rule sounds like the fair thing to me. I get the downsides but it still seems more fair than the alternative.
>>712786640
But put it this way, when you see the percentage of what states vote for, it's not all 100% Democrat or Republican.
Right now, half your population's votes don't matter. A republican in Cali or a Democrat in Texas can both vote, not vote, wipe their ass with their voting slip and eat it and all those options would have the exact same effect on how much it impacts the election.
States that went too Trump and Hilary was only with just over 50% of that state and not much more.
Right now a vote from someone's state ISN'T equal.
The most important votes that any candidate cares about are the swing states, they are only votes that matter to those who want to run for President.
>>712787853
>not based on geographical oddities
actually it would mean exactly that
>>712785618
>>712785120
>leaving every other state in the union penniless
We both know that it was more complicated than that so don't even try to oversimplify it.
Also, it would seem you are stretching the term "fair" a great deal. I understand your position but you are consistently trying to find ways in which it is "fair." Just admit that it isn't supposed to be fair and get on with it.
Besides, even with the electoral college, we have the present issue that candidates mostly just campaign in key states anyway. 11 key states, in-fact.
>>712787827
Is it better having 49% ruing it for the 51%?
Sorry 161 million people. Minority wins! You get no say!
>>712787584
USA Population 324 million
NY 20 million
TX 27 million
CA 40 million
87 million is not the majority of 324 million.
>>712785618
>Our brand of constitutional republic is not a Jeffersonian Democracy
Great job on ignoring facts.
>>712787990
I said "if", anon. I realized this when replying to that other fag, but I was replying to his essential point, not the incorrect math. You should have directed this at him not me.
>>712787700
That's the point. That isn't the goal. In our system, The will of the people is represented within each state. The fate of the republic as a whole is determined by the states of which it is formed.
>>712787984
Only instead what you get is two compromising factions working together because neither one ends up controlling everything without challenge.
>>712787678
It's interesting how we have mob rule for our legislatures but not for our presidencies. How do you explain that, Mr. Smarty Pants?
>>712777595
A lot of spell checks replace en masse with other things. But he could be a b/tard too.
Fundamentally speaking, our federal government is supposed to provide equal representation of the states, not individual citizens.
If we were to get back to the Constitution, each state should only cast one vote based on their own popular election.
>>712787980
>Just admit that it isn't supposed to be fair and get on with it.
>"It's not fair because it doesn't work for me"
Just admit you're to childish to except the system works and get on with it.
>>712788092
You put ARE in all caps. Don't change your mind now pussy
>>712787990
25% of population within 6% of the states
>>712788194
federal government is supposed to be a representative body of the states, not citizens
>>712788103
And why would this change by letting the majority pick the president, and representation in the chambers of parliament?
No-one is proposing throwing constitutional rights away, only letting the democracy be representative.
>>712788233
Nice dubs retard.
>>712777688
Go look up "tyranny of the majority" you ass hat
>>712788208
Well, your definition does defy what is considered "fair." But maybe fairness is so nuanced that fair isn't actually fair when a weab posts about it.
>>712788281
Interesting.
So, why again are individual citizens those who directly vote for House of Reps and Senators but not for Presidents?
>>712777904
Love it...
>>712788298
If the president can't change that much, and the 49% have nothing to worry about, why are you all so terrified of Trump?
Oh yeah, because you're all just fucking mad you lost.
>>712788101
The problem with this is that you are supposed to be ONE country. Which flag is it that you so cringely swear allegiance to in school? The flag of Nebraska?
Right now you stand to lose your rights of representation if you move from a small to a large state, or from a swing state to a solid red/blue state. Maybe you just moved a few kilometers. Can you not see the problem with this?
>>712788194
not quite. Legislatures are made up of representatives chosen by individual districts (congress). Senators and governors are chosen by mob voters. But they are also limited to their own states, not a wide swath of the country.
>>712788505
checks and balances. Fuck, have you ever stepped inside a classroom?
>>712777625
3 million illegal immigrants did not vote in this election. The person who claimed that was unwilling to provide evidence in the first place.
http://www.snopes.com/three-million-votes-in-presidential-election-cast-by-illegal-aliens/
>>712788298
Because as everyone keeps saying and you ignoring, you fucking retard, it would mean a few states would have control over the vast majority of the nation.
How many times must it be said before it sinks into your thick skull?
The candidates would just promise a few highly populated cities whatever they wanted at everyone elses expense for their votes leaving the rest of the nation holding the bill. It happened before and that's exactly why the system is a electoral vote and not a popular vote.
Repeating the same stupid question over and over will not change that fact.
