Hey /B/ why aren't you a socialist, and not the liberal bs Bernie sanders kind
but i kinda am
>>711618367
I make too much money for socialism
>>711618367
because i believe in self sufficiency and independence not being fuckin leech
>>711618600
>not being fuckin leech
then why are you leeching off of society?
>>711618600
that's what socialism is, if you wanted to live off others, then be a capitalist...
>>711618500
have you overthrown the bourgeoise yet, Comrade?
>>711619107
i'm more of a left liberal
>>711619337
>left
>liberal
pick one faggot
>>711618561
Do you get most of your income from wages? If you do, then you don't make too much money for socialism. If you derive most of your income from assets, what the fuck are you doing on 4chan?
>>711619529
you can mix both. just slightly but still
>>711619627
I would have to agree with your definition of wages vs assets.
I make most of my money from wages 240k, that basically pays the fucking bills.
I make another 90k from assets, that is pretty much gravy, I plan to retire on this in twenty years.
It would be very inconvenient for me if the government came and decided to socialize me
It doesn't work.
>>711618367
Because I work for a my money and don't like sharing my loot.
I'm a national socialist.
Socialism sucks, most countries that used it failed economically, capitalism has proven that it's the better way.
>>711621879
Nazis failed , kiddo.
>>711619048
Exactly.
Capitalism is about the free market. De-regulating banks and the private sector. What do those end up doing? enslaving people in whatever conditions so they can generate money for the capitalist class, who go on TV pointing at socialists and calling them leeches.
Fuck that shit.
Also, this is an american-mostly board. They suck capitalist dick and would rather go bankrupt getting basic healthcare than be called a "commie"
fuck them, they deserve it. I hope Trump makes it even more expensive you fucking insects.
the free market is really good at most things, just not healthcare, public transport or law enforcement
>>711621879
lol ok
>>711621879
same my friend!
>>711621279
>if the government came and decided to socialize me
What does that even mean? If they make you pay higher taxes, so you get free healthcare and your kids get free education (College level) then so be it. Then, if something were to happen, you will have social safety nets that catch you before you hit rock bottom.
>>711621977
all socialist systems failed.
>>711622407
Same same!! :D
>>711618367
Why? All I would be doing is swapping slave masters.
I Want a socialist catboi to suck my dick.
>>711618367
but i am
>>711618367
1. it just doesn't work, i mean read a fucking history book
2. i put supporting myself above others and others should have that mentality too otherwise shit won't get done
3. better dead than red
>>711618367
I used to be, but then I joined the U.S. Army and had my personal belongings, my hair and my window to the outside world taken away from me. I lived off rations, orders, bureaucracy and my love for my countryxl, but as a way of life for everyone, absolutely not. I lived the most communist experience you can find in America during Basic Training.
Its not that I hate the Army or anything, Im still in it but Basic Training made me realize what pure socialism is and that its not for me.
>>711618367
go die somewhere u communist cunt
>>711622443
Communism in Russia could easily have worked if someone like Stalin didnt come to power. *Cough* Trotsky *Cough*
>>711618367
but i am
l2canada
you faggot.
soon we'll have basic income, it will be glorious.
>>711622436
>free
>>711618367
I am. The destruction of capitalism, and the implementation of anti-authoritarian socialism/communism in society is what I hope to see before I die.
People need to realize socialism is NOT the USSR. We live in new times, and a working socialist society is necessary for the coming century. Or else we're screwed. Otherwise,
capitalism will be the death of the globe.
Remember, most of the revenues of society is siphoned off by the ruling class. Almost nothing goes back to the workers. If the economic growth, and technological progress was instead invested in the wellbeing of all, our lives would be radically improved.
Remember: When communism started in Russia in 1918 things were a lot different. Just feeding people was a major task. Now our farms over produce. For instance.
Times are a lot different now. The world is ready for socialism.
>>711622436
There is something people don't understand about socialism. It is not efficient.
Let's say that the government socialized something you actually have, livers.
Everybody has to hand in one of their livers for the common good.
so now you only have one liver and you stop drinking and eat tofu. but it is for the common good right?
How mad would you be when you see people that drink too much to donate livers? Instead they are counting on your donated liver to drink and eat as much as they want?
It gets worse, one day when you go to a hospital you see people playing soccer with your liver, they have so many they don't know what else to do with it.
>>711624302
>Everybody has to hand in one of their livers for the common good.
>one of their livers.
>>711624415
yes, unfortunately I can't make this example work with money.
you don't have money, so you don't give a fuck about it.
Everybody can donate a liver, you have two and one is superfluous, but goddammit it is your liver. Hurts when the government comes to take it no?
Communism is far superior to capitalism. The idea that competition and selfishness are the only things that drives innovation and hard work is retarded; have you ever even observed communal mammals in the animal kingdom? Do wolves work together because of "competition?" No, they work together and then split their meal equally among their compatriots. Would not a gene that encouraged altruism result in a stronger group and a better livelihood than a selfish one? Capitalists fail to take into account the survival of GROUPS and COMMUNITIES and the natural selection that occurs on a large, community wide scale; instead, they only focus on individual evolution. Thus, it is clear that selfishness is a emotion bred by the culture around us of a hierarchical society, and can be done away with the proper state system, increasing the efficiency and happiness of the community. I remember clearly when I was in elementary school that I was happy when my comrades succeeded, not sad or angry that someone was better or as good as me. Now, I cannot shake a feeling of dismay when someone does something just as well as I did. I rest my case.
>>711622436
>make you pay for free healthcare and community college that's already useless
ftfy
>>711622436
>pay higher taxes
>free college and healthcare
Nothing is free faggot, someone has to pay for it.
>>711625370
>then split their meal equally among their compatriots
No they do not.
>>711625370
but that's why it doesn't succeed. wolves work together in packs so that they can be better than other wolf packs, like people will work together to make a company so that they will do better than other companies, thus driving innovation because you don't want to starve, or supply people with what they need because you don't want to starve. but what drives socialists? nothing, that's why socialism fails
>>711618367
Because there ain't no such thing as a free lunch
>>711618367
I'm actually a Marxist. BA in economics from undergrad, MA in philosophy focusing on political economy.
>>711622443
>literally has no idea what socialism is
>>711623011
On an ideological level, what Stalin did was fine.
>>711625231
>>711624302
Is this bait? Please tell me this is bait
>>711626058
It fails literally every time when a country with less restrictions comes and makes the socialist country their bitch because when they lose all their power to corruption when the politicians not only have the legislative power in their hands, but the means of production and business in their hands.
>nobody wants a nanny state, if they're in it they want out, if they see it coming they bitch about it
>>711625231
>Everybody can donate a liver, you have two and one is superfluous
>>711626058
You make that claim but it's only true when you view it through a Western capitalistic mindset.
In reality, competition is only good up to a point, and cooperation becomes better and more efficient later.
You should read Peter Kropotkin's book Mutual Aid.
>>711626259
Keynesianism or neoliberalism?
>>711627192
Are you asking what I studied? Both.
Keynes took away a major part of economics that had been around since it's inception in the late 1700s, and lead to a stagnation of sorts.
Neoliberalism has its own problems but offers flexibility that Keynesian economics doesn't.
>>711626058
>
No, wolf packs work together to help their group as a whole, not compete against other wolf packs. Wolf packs generally do not compete against one another, as long as there are resources enough for all.
>>711618367
>>711627612
And not a damned thing was learned.
>>711627705
The infographic you're responding to is completely untrue.
>>711628007
>>711627970
>>711627864
>>711627827
>>711627722
>>711627612
Ugh, here come the memes. It's not bad that they're being posted, it's bad because people think they're accurate.
>>711627970
lenin didnt kill innocents
>>711627114
you should read a good damn history book and then think about how to form a properly argument than "lol ur wrong". cooperation and competition need to be together, otherwise a country will fail, thus, you get western capitalism. we make it where you have to work to get what you want, but we encourage cooperation as well, where as the ussr just encouraged cooperation w=and that's why America won. we encoraged comprimise and compitition so people will not downright kill each other, but will try to make themself better to win. this came into play in the war, america was trying to better themselves where as the ussr was trying to destroy America
>>711628083
For you
>>711618367
because I'm not dumb enough to mix statism and capitalism
>>711627453
I'm asking which one you prefer, which one you think is more efficient?
>>711628258
that moment when Hitler was right wing
>>711618367
I actually respect true USSR style commies a hell of a lot more than the pussies in the Sanders camp.
Anyone have the macro of the comparison between a Soviet soldier and modern "commie"?
I'd call myself a national socialist, so it might just be because we both have authoritarian leanings, but you guys are all right.
>>711628137
America didn't win because of its ideology.
No offense, but you're the one who needs a history book. I really, strongly suggest that you stay out of this conversation if you don't know anything about it.
I used to think Marx was bullshit but I started reading his works and he makes some pretty good points about capitalism. I'm not convinced communism is the answer though.
>>711627455
there isn't enough resources for everyone to thrive now is there? socialism only works with small amounts of people, not whole nations
>>711627864
maybe people aren't supporting socialism to score moral points but because they think it's a more just system, also use the the (n/Σn) numbering system so we know how many more of your saved jpgs you're going to post
>>711618367
Socialism is for underage faggots, who would rebel against anything.
>>711628137
Bullshit. Competition is not a gene hardwired into us, it is simply the cultural impact of living in a hierarchical society for the majority of your life. Wouldn't an altruistic group or community function better than a selfish one that constantly competes with itself? And wouldn't this gene be passed on to us? Also, the US was constantly trying to destroy the USSR. The only reason the USSR collapsed was because it had to deal with the much richer US, which crippled its economy in an arms race the CCCP couldn't afford.
>>711628461
The USSR collapsed inwardly due to the failure of the communist system, that's a well established fact post-Cold War.
>>711628731
Competition = Natural Selection.
If you force the strong down in order to lift the weak you get a worse society.
>>711628751
Would you be surprised to hear that's not actually a fact?
Because it's not.
>>711628731
>Bullshit. Competition is not a gene hardwired into us
Incorrect. Study up on some evolutionary psychology.
>>711618367
>socialist
>liberal
Heh.
>>711627827
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/10/do-economists-actually-know-what-money-is
no one is doubting capitalism makes sense or is rational (read, among others, Adorno, for a critique of capitalist rationality). they're doubting it's ethical value.
>>711628864
It used to be. Not anymore though. You should brush up.
>>711628912
Yeah, I don't even bother pointing this out anymore. No one knows and no one cares.
>>711628854
Why do you believe it collapsed?
Lol I'm very interested to hear your reasoning.
The President of the United States has the legal authority to assassinate anyone with a drone strike.
Watch what you say.
>>711628928
Our genes have changed? How fascinating! When did this happen?
>>711627827
TOO FUCKING LONG; DID NOT READ
>>711628461
here's more of the "lol ur wrong" arguement. the war between ussr and the united states wasn't a war of money, resources, land, or scientific achievement. it was a war of ideology, a war of capitalism vs. communism, a war of the puppet masters
>pic applies to other "free" BS like education
>>711628731
>hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
haven't made to 8th grade biology have ya?
>>711628994
It's not about what I "believe". It's about understanding the nature of the cold war and hearing what historians have to say about it.
The USSR's "fall" was primarily caused by the interventions of the US, and Kruschev's push away from the original Communist ideology. He "de-Stalinized" the USSR and as a result slowly started moving away from Communism.
Why do you think it was so easy for them to adopt a system like ours in such a short amount of time?
Why do you think there's still millions of Russians who want Communism?
Why do you think they still pay tens of thousands of dollars per year to maintain Lenin's body?
>>711618367
I supported the ever loving fuck out of Sanders but the truth is I'm well to the left of him. Cheers, comrade.
>>711629127
Yes, that's right. The specifics though is what is important.
>>711629200
>posting a picture of Hayek
>literally a shit economics who stood in Keynes' shadow for his entire career
>>711629277
looks like you're making a lot of arbitrary normative statements that are based on the tactics a group of 18th century bourgeois used to advance their class position
>>711628136
unfortunately he kinda did. He killed the entire family of the Tzar and any opposition to the party. It was a new nation and it was needed.
>>711629407
>tfw Russia's economy is just now starting to reach pre-1991 collapse levels
>>711628928
are you fucktarded?
you cant just "un-hardwire" something that basic human nature
socialism will NEVER work because humans are greedy
the end
>>711629593
>forgot to take into account government subsidized benefits
ok
>>711629407
Stalin was complete shit to his people and the ussr was poor as shit when he was in power too
>Why do you think there's still millions of Russians who want Communism?
>Why do you think they still pay tens of thousands of dollars per year to maintain Lenin's body?
Stockholm syndrome
>>711629685
>socialism will NEVER work because humans are greedy
>the end
I feel sorry for you.
>>711629605
Translating what you said:
>REEEEE!!! Evil white males! I'm so triggered!!!
>>711618367
because i took economics 101.
>>711629759
He wasn't complete shit to his people. This is just capitalistic bs.
He killed people, but not as many as the West claims, and those people were mostly remnants of the Blues and the Whites who wanted to start another civil war.
>>711629685
>>711629334
the evolution of groups and communities is a highly debated subject. Wouldn't an altruistic group of apes function better than one competing constantly with itself? I know you'll bring up the "The Selfish Gene" and Richard Dawkins, don't. If a mutation arose that led to a predisposition of altruism in a group and spread throughout it, do you think the altruistic group or a rival competitive group wound function better?
>>711628731
Let me guess: it is a 'social construct.'
>>711629472
what does that even mean?
>>711618367
But I am anon
>>711629806
alternative, potentially more accurate and less angry translation of what i said: "looks like you're making a lot of arbitrary normative statements that are based on the tactics a group of 18th century bourgeois used to advance their class position"
>>711629855
There's your problem.
Econ 101 doesn't teach anything useful in terms of economic philosophy, just how to get a job in the modern capitalistic model.
>>711629593
tl;dr
trotskist FTW
>>711629407
What interventions, exactly? The invasion of Afghanistan was not a large resource-sink for the Soviets, Vietnam even less so. The USSR had an extensive network of its own to not be hampered by American sanctions/regulations, so what exactly did the Americans do to force the collapse?
Stalinist communism was a brutal authoritarian dictatorship, if you think that's worth the price that's your problem.
I've actually talked with (admittedly very liberal) Russians about the whole return to communism thing, they claim it's just nostalgia of being world superpower.
As for the transition to capitalism, Germany transitioned to National Socialism in less then a decade. These things don't take long.
>>711629984
Trotskyites are retards
>>711629772
so now we're even
>>711629997
Stalin wasn't an authoritarian dictator. In fact he tried to step down from office several times and was not permitted.
Look, you obviously only know what you hear from your high school classes and people around you. I'm happy to educate you, but there's no sense in me arguing facts.
>>711630131
Yes, this is quite convenient given that war and class oppression fits his interests.
>>711630131
failure, ignorance, and envy?! Damn, dude! Those are all things I am very much against! This socialism might not be so cool after all...
>>711630232
>class oppression
Just what is that? Giving people jobs? THE HORROR
>>711630320
If you don't understand it, you shouldn't criticize it.
>>711630260
I'd rather drink the kool aid being served on the right.
>>711630182
Really? His purges were righteous crusades? The man left his own son to die in prison, he wasn't known for having a heart of gold.
It's rich that you're claiming I don't know history, you didn't even acknowledge anything else I said in my post.
>>711626499
Nope this is actually how bad education is under capitalism
>>711630394
He left his own son to die in prison so that the people knew he wasn't self-interested.
I don't need to acknowledge it. You may know a version of history based on Western propaganda, but I would invite you to question the sources of your materials.
>>711627612
People who post crap like this do so based on prejudice which they are breastfed. They cant read marx et al,, or understand the historical complexities of 20th C socialism. it takes study and intelligence.
>>711630381
If you can't explain it you shouldn't promote it.
>>711630260
>>711630363
I mean, this is also No-True-Scotsman, if you want to be the pedantic debate nerd you so clearly want to
>>711630466
>most education is federalized or state run
>but guys this is the fault of private schools
You're out of your league here, commie.
>>711630553
I can explain it. I choose not to because you don't actually care. You're just here to debate.
>>711629859
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
the us should have taken out the ussr after we defeated tojo
>>711627970
>kulaks
>innocent
>>711630526
In law that would be called "character evidence", it establishes a precedent for the character of the suspect.
You keep choosing one thing to focus on in my posts, if I'm so wrong it shouldn't be hard to correct me.
>>711630626
I bet you'd be surprised to hear that America has killed more innocents than the USSR did.
>>711630455
This guy is an admirable human being: hard working and accepts that he must earn his keep. Why do you socialists hate people like him?
>>711630614
Thanks for the laugh.
>>711630669
underrated post that only 2 of us in here will laugh at
>>711622436
none of its free and i work my ass off to buy myself shit while i have friends who do jack shit all day and expect the same reward
why would i work? if its all "free" (someone has to pay for this shit)
>>711630713
Sure, I guess.
>>711630455
>former marine
You know it's a felony to pretend to be a current or former member of the military, right? It's called stolen valor.
>>711630686
If you were open to being corrected, I'd be more than happy to.
>>711630320
Workhouses were a legitimate way of dealing with the unsightly suffering of the poor. They should be grateful. Also third-wage exploitative labour is our way of extending a helping hand to the developing masses. I've been Matthew Yglesias of Vox Media, and you've been a great neoliberal audience, goodnight!
>>711630320
>>711630796
Fuck if I know, I just found that pic online somewhere. I have no reason to doubt his word.
>>711630697
WE'RE NUMBER ONE!
USA! USA! USA!
>>711629593
>Someone who has never been to Denmark tries to a explain a system he can't comprehend by ranting more than everyone else citing nation master and not one Danish source.
mfw working as a substitute teacher in an elementary school makes me 3,000 dollars a month in Denmark.
>>711630812
Have I given you an indication that I'm not? If so I apologize, but you actually haven't engaged in discussion yet, all you've said is "you're wrong", and focused on pedantic little points.
To be a worker you actually have to produce something though. Right?
>>711630573
All the rich people send their children to private schools and have no stake in the public school system, and since those with power are the ones who get stuff done, public schools go to shit. If we abolished private schools, the rich would be forced to send their kids to public schools and have a stake in them, so public schools would benefit immensely. It is an extremely easy concept to understand, one that has been implemented to great success in places like Finland, recognized by most as the country with the best education system in the world.
>>711630907
Phrases like "pedantic little points" are indications that you're not really open to discourse. Those "little points" were direct answers to parts of your posts.
>>711630822
>Also third-wage exploitative labour is our way of extending a helping hand to the developing masses
The irony is that "sweatshops" actually do help poor people over seas.
>>711631039
Arguably.
>>711629873
no, but they compete with other groups to survive and socialism works for that group because their involment could mean the thriving or destruction of it, where as at a national level, you're involvement won't mean shit so you just leech, and you might step on your high horse and say you wouldn't do that but many will, and they'll be an example for those that do work how meaningless what they're doing is
>>711630898
>3,000 dollars a month
But after taxes it's like 1500 a month
Pop Pot would have forced OP to work in the rice fields to death
>>711631144
Yes - and those taxes come out of shit you don't have to purchase at a premium anymore - like health care, public transit, education. The list goes on and on.
>>711631015
Lol you said it yourself; "parts of your posts".
How is focusing on Stalin and his son more important than the overall cause if the Soviet collapse? Cause you kinda ignored that and went in a tangent.
Just like you're doing now.
>>711631144
Besides the fact everyone knows danish currency has less value than monopoly money.
OP posting on a private website. Confirmed hypocrite.
>>711631255
Because I know how to pick and choose my battles. Again, you're not actually interested in correcting yourself or even exploring the truth.
>I have 500 jpgs saved about how evil socialism is, haha take that bolsheviks!
>>711631217
It takes half of your income to pay for health care and whatnot? That's bloody inefficient! I get far more bang for my buck here, and I'm taxes far less. I feel bad for you.
>>711631400
I'm convinced it's the same guy every time.
>>711631442
I doubt it.
National socialism is the only socialism that works.
>>711629955
>economic philosophy
right. it teaches economics.
if you understand economics, even at a very fundamental level, you don't need to have an in-depth knowledge of Marxist economic theory to know it doesn't work.
>>711631126
communism doesn't mean you can just sit around and do nothing and be fine. If you don't work, then you won't receive your ration cards or you will be sent to a gulag. If you are a contributing member of society, however, you deserve just as much as everyone else who contributes in some way to society.
>>711631379
In all the time it took to have this useless exchange you could've formed an actual coherent response to my original post...but instead here we are.
I don't really think there's any point in trying to talk with someone who refuses to talk, so whatever than.
>>711631507
You'd be surprised. I can tell that you've never actually studied it.
>>711630697
yeah, we've killed innocents, but for good reason. the two nukes? yeah that was us, an di would have dropped the bombs. the reason we dropped the bombs was to end the war with tojo which was costing lives on both sides, and the ussr would have joined the fight and did with japan what they did with Germany. other than that it's just civilians caught in the cross fire, barely ever intentional. the ussr killed because of i deology, we killed to save lives
>>711631335
>>711618367
Who said I'm not?
>>711631558
Okay. It would be my sincere suggestion that you go out and read a few books about the subject so you don't look so ignorant to those who have studied it. Just for your own benefit.
>>711631039
Yes and that's why that argument has gained so much traction with popular economics. Other than outright war, there's no oppressive system that doesn't appear to benefit those oppressed. The only way to see that it's a false benefit is to imagine alternative systems. This is what labour movements in the third world try to do, and are prevented from doing so by corporate interests (cliche phrase but accurate). This is why all the international intersectional feminism rhetoric of HRC et al has focused on integrating women into the preexisting system, and not offering genuine political self-determination at a local level. I recommend this chapo episode https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-38-elevator-to-heaven-feat-maria-hengeveld-9516
>>711631335
lold my cock off
its the same argument commie fucktards repeat ad nauseam "so and so didn't implement REAL communism"
>>711631191
>man who dragged his entire country out of extreme poverty
>supports socialism
That's pretty compelling.
>>711618367
Mixed market is the only way to go, kid. Grow up, Komrade. Socialism should be the controller of capitalism.
>>711622948
Socialism allows for personal belongings.
>>711631570
There's no difference. Plus you're leaving out the most brutal parts.
>second boer war
ideology
>native american genocide
wanna tell me what this good reason was for?
>slavery
yup
>supporting dictatorial regimes who were brutal to their people just to keep socialists out of power in South America
more ideology
Communism and socialism are not the same thing
>>711631746
hitler did nothing wrong
I already am one.
Where? fuck if I know. Kinda drifing towards Trotskyist.
>>711631562
no you can't because i didn't actually say anything substantive about Marxist theories. ergo, you can't make a judgment either way. based upon your response, however, i can tell that YOU haven't ever taken logic or you wouldn't have responded in such a way.
you're probably in undergrad and just started reading this nonsense because you hate the system and don't understand why. this is understandable, but you will grow out of it eventually as 99% of people do.
>>711631507
This tbh.
In my intro economics course my prof gave two simple reasons state-run economics doesn't work.
The planning problem: Command economies require complete and total centralized planning, which means the state dictates that so much iron will be made to produce so much steel which will be made into ships etc. Etc. If one chain in this link breaks the entire system breaks.
The incentive problem: In capitalism you have the motivation to get marketable skills and improve yourself to make more money. In socialism, you are stuck wherever they out you, and have no incentive to be efficient or excel at your job.
Very simple to understand.
tfw Marx wrote Capital for the working class but the working class is too fucking busy working and trying to not die under capitalism to read that thick, dense slab of economics literature.
>>711631539
so send people to concentration camps if they don't do work? wow, what a system i want to be a part of. won't receive ration cards? so you mean the government will permit you to have food, not let you work for it. you know, moral is a thing, and if people are under a tyranny they won't be happy, and unhappy people leeds to low motivation
>>711618367
Iz gr8 socialism
>>711631654
Because you have to go through a transition state before reaching true communism. Even the USSR acknowledged that it was a socialist, not communist, transition state. Read some Marx mate, you'll find it convincing believe me.
>>711631699
that bitch is hot
id liberate the fuck out of her proletariat vagina
>>711631893
This is the typical response for people who don't know much about the subject. I commend you for trying but it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem, or else people wouldn't still be discussing and implementing it today.
>>711630543
No one wants to read your Soviet cancer.
>>711631874
Actually, I'm the anon with the MA in political economy and undergrad in econ.
I've taken both formal and informal logic. The thing is, those are for formalized debates. Nothing serious happens on /b/.
>>711631845
He did war wrong.
But the rest was fine.
>>711631746
don't dude. Fascism has always sprung up when working classes have threatened to organise in a conscious way. Nazi ideology was initially attractive to the haute bourgeoisie business people.
>>711632036
top kek
Mises has been the laughingstock of Austrian economics since he died
>>711627612
Bullshit meme tier post.
>>711632030
You're pretty fuckin condescending and smug considering you didn't point out where I was wrong.
>>711632077
>Marx
>Soviet
>>711632160
H o p p e
o
p
p
e
Based Austrian Nazi.
>>711632178
I'm not your professor.
>>711632030
nobody outside of a small amount of ideologues in some universities is still discussing it, and i challenge you to name me a country actually implementing it.
>>711631979
Then you have no place in society. People act like the poor are poor because they wont work, but the fact is that they are literally prohibited from working because of capitalism.
>>711632030
you're awfully full of rhetoric and empty on substance.
>>711622443
Clearly you've never heard of canada
>>711632265
Here's a tip mate, if you don't want to look like a complete fool on the Internet, don't say "you're wrong", and not have anything to back it up.
People in this thread are actually discussing shit, meanwhile you're just standing in the sidelines saying "nope" "wrong" "don't think so".
You're a complete faggot intellectual.
>>711621977
Their economy flourished while most countries were still mired in the Great Depression.
All socialist economies have failed /are failing
>>711632265
I'm not your proletariat, pal
>>711622948
Look up hutterite communities. I live in area with lots of communes nearby and the are entirely self sufficient, profitable, and mostly everyone is happy.the only things they can't do are be gay or doctors etc
>>711632418
This is an anonymous message board. If it were an actual platform for discourse, I'd take a more active role. But I've been in these threads dozens of times and it's always the same. People here are just looking to argue with each other, not learn.
>>711632299
Literally haven't heard of any of those, leading me to believe that they're all utter failures that didn't last a year. So why would you promote those as "successes" of socialism/communism?
>>711631144
No i pay 37% tax and only for some of the money. Our tax system is quite complicated. So the first 600 dollars i make a month is tax free, then for the next 1200 i pay 18%, and for the remaining i pay 37% tax. But i don't even pay 37% of the entire sum in total. Once i pay tax, rent and utilities i have around a 1000 USD left for the month. And i can live fine for around 8-9 dollars a day and have more than 500 dollars left for shit i like for the rest of the month.
I have 158 free days a year and i work 36 hours a week. I have free healthcare and free transport. I am sure i have other benefits like being payed an extra 150 dollars a month for taking college classes.
>>711627827
That strawman gave me cancer.
>>711632418
you can't be an intellectual if you don't have anything to say.
he's exhibiting characteristics of a demagogue, not an intellectual.
>>711629045
yes, because the president is most certaintly going to kill a nobody on an anonymous forum site for talking about political ideaologies.
if this was a socialist country then maybe
>>711632341
this is only true if youre a nigger
>>711632530
I put forward two reasonable cases for why command economies don't work, and all you seem to be doing is bandying words and arguing.
Look in the mirror mate.
Btw I'm assuming your smugness translates into real life as well, I'd take a hard look there as well.
>>711628089
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kOnIp69r6vg
>>711632274
You should get out more. The discussion is happening much more than you think it is.
But as for your challenge?
Cuba, China, Argentina, Vietnam, Laos, etc etc
I suppose your next move will be to try and invalidate my examples, but I left out ones who call themselves socialist but don't function like it.
I've met and exceeded your challenge.
>>711627827
this is about urss / communisme bureaucraty not socialism
>>711632551
>1000 USD left for the month
That's just poverty, especially considering how expensive everything is over there. Damn I feel bad for ya... You're a poor sucker defending the people keeping him down. It's just tragic! If you had freer markets, you'd be making so much more and keeping a higher percentage of it!
>>711632423
Ever heard of the USSR? They literally took a country mired in the fucking dark ages, literally composed of landed serfs, and industrialized it to the point where it reached the fucking space age. Not only that, but after a war that crippled the economy and a huge counterrevolutonairy movement.
>>711632720
They aren't reasonable when you know more about the subject.
They're extremely shallow ways to look at things. In order for me to answer you, I'd need to exert a level of effort that's just not worth it on a message board. But I'd be happy to direct you to material that can answer it.
I think we can all agree that leftists make the best art and music
>>711631746
Hitler never said that, please, stop "quoting" from quotes sites.
>>711632794
kek i thought you were serious til i saw the gif
>>711628136
he did and killed anarchist too
>>711632734
You're an idiot, but damn did that make me laugh
>>711632815
*at the cost of millions of lives
When the state has control over bread and industrial production, you're at their mercy.
>>711632794
What does the average first year college student make in america?
>>711628201
North Korea abandoned Leninism/Stalinism in favor of Juche a while ago. That said, they have electricity in Pyongyang and other cities but turn much of it off at night.
>>711632644
>socialist
>country
>president
Jesus Christ, please read actual leftist literature and stop drinking the capitalist kool-aid.
>>711632908
That wasn't actually a necessary cost. Most of those lives were counterrevolutionaries.
>>711631815
>second boer war
the united staes wasn't a part of this
>native American genocide
most of it wasn't the us, but yeah that was for land that we made prosperous
>slavery
99% of deaths were from natural causes, and we faught a war over that shit
>supporting dictatorial regimes who were brutal to their people just to keep socialists out of power in South America
that we can be allys with and make them free and capitalistic.
the us, most of the time, killed for a reason. where as the ussr killed for the hell of it. also, the ussr did it's killings to it's own people for no reason. so it still stands, the us was trying to make itself better where as the ussr was trying to dystroy
>>711632815
and it only took hundreds of millions of deaths to get to that point
theyre efficient with time, ill give you that
>>711632989
>. Most of those lives were counterrevolutionaries.
Killing people who disagree with me is a-okay!
>>711628360
Look up Ostalgie.
>>711632737
literally all of those countries have embraced a market economy, and Argentina never even had rule by a communist party. also, if you actually believe just because a regime calls itself a socialist one that it automatically has socialist policies, you're even more uninformed than i'd expected.
>>711632840
Again, when you say things like "they're shallow", and don't back it up with anything, you just seem like a self-righteous cunt. I'm actually saying this to help you, I really hope you don't behave that way in real life. If my points were so shallow it shouldn't be that fucking hard to refute them.
But by all means, point me to an unbiased examination of communism. I'm sure whatever you point me to will be if the highest quality.
>>711632893
It's an appropriate image. I was laughing at you, but then I realized how tragic your situation is.
>>711633107
Alright, that's enough with you. You have no clue what you're talking about.
>>711630697
Over a longer time span
>>711618367
Because relying on the state to feed and keep you warm instead of working hard for yourself and your family is contrary to human nature.
You lazy pleb sack of shit.
>>711630984
the rich still pay taxes that fund public schools fucktard
>>711633020
My gott, it's so pure. *sniff*
>>711632989
Ah yes, let's starve the entire population to kill some reactionaries. Perfect plan, Chancellor Stalin.
>>711632908
The majority of those lives that were lost were due to Soviet protectionism, something that the States have done just as much of. Also, the reason there were famines was because of the kulaks burning all the fields in protest to communist rule, that wasn't the governments fault. The kulaks were just insurgents. If terrorists kill a bunch of americans, thats not the governments fault. Unless your Bush.
>>711633148
In a Socratic discussion, whether I come off as a "self-righteous cunt" or not doesn't matter. It's about the content.
It's not hard to refute your points. In fact, they've been refuted so many times over the last 150 years that I'm sick of seeing the same "critiques" posted every fucking day.
>>711628851
That flowchart is dichotomous bullshit.
>>711632341
how? like fucking how did you come up with this? capitalism encourages compitition and with competition, more businesses, and with more businesses, more jobs. socialism is state controlled which means only one business for each feild
>>711633170
i'm convinced you're trying to troll me anyway at this point.
>>711633230
>the rich
>pay taxes
>>711633080
thats called fucking war, bud.
>>711633080
I'd hope so, that's what we did with native americans!
>>711633273
When you have a shortage of food production, do you go full steam ahead on building your industry?
The Soviets seem to think so.
>>711618367
Because I am self employed and certain times of year like now I work 80 Hours a week. Also how hard I work means how much money I make. I make 150000 to 175000 per year for the last 10 years. You work you make money. Socialism is a failure it breeds mediocrity.
>>711633080
>war in iraq
>world war 2
>native american genocide
>colonialism in general
I hope you weren't trying to make a real point.
>>711632551
Dane here, this guy is blatantly lying.
Transport is not free, at all, he doesn't tell you about the 9% Arbejdsmarkedbidrag he has to pay for, meaning tax is 46%, and there's no such thing as 1200 at 18%, it goes straight to 46.
>>711633355
Which is why you'll stay in the dark. Your mind is not open.
>>711633293
you have to have a point in order to have a Socratic dialogue.
i hope you go to law school someday. you'll get torn a new one.
>>711632908
It's all so hollow when no one is bothering to count the victims of capitalism.
Most of the deaths under communism didn't come from purges, but from poverty which existed before communism. If we set the same bar for western capitalism as is set for communism, then the only countries which don't look absolutely monstrous are the regulated market economies of social democratic welfare states like Scandinavia.
>>711633293
LOL THAT IS GOOD
You are telling me it's about the content, YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SAID ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE YET.
Holy shit I hope this isn't the best communism has to offer.
>>711619048
Socialism is tyrany of the masses. Yes the system gives, but only so it can take more. Socialism/communism doesn't work. If you have a problem, fuck off to china
>>711633364
That's because they break the law, they're required to pay but they cheat. That's not captilisms fault.
>>711633517
Oh, fun fact: already there.
/b/ is not a rigorous place of learning and discussion. i'm just here to guide people in the right direction
>>711633323
Only on the left half, and it's dichotomous because the two ideologies are dichotomous.
>>711633540
I didn't claim to have offered any content. But calling me names is irrelevant. Don't be so dense.
>>711629945
socialisme + monroe
this is heaven
>>711633323
yeah it's literally like some Lyndon LaRouche conspiratorial schematising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche#History_as_a_struggle_between_Platonism_and_Aristotelianism
>>711633572
A system that encourages cheating, has been unable to even aliviate this problem in it's entire existance, claims to be working great.
>>711633590
>guide people in the right direction
and how would you say that's working for you?
