![MTI5ODcyMjQ1NDQ2MjA5NTA2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/D9EIFER.jpg "MTI5ODcyMjQ1NDQ2MjA5NTA2[1].jpg")
Britfag here..............I have a question for amerifags.
would Sanders have beaten Trump if he had gained the democratic nomination??
>>711244421
perhaps
>>711244421
If you look at the data Republicans didn't make any gains in terms of their numbers Dem's just failed to make an appearance. That lady who got fired from the Dem's who was doing all that shady shit for Hilary should be to blame. Bernie was filling up stadiums. Hilary, well look at the numbers the Dems didn't come out in droves to support her.
>>711244421
Without a doubt.
>>711244660
Would the democrats who voted for Hillary also have voted for Sanders, or would he have been too socialist for them? Would moderate democrats have rallied against like republicans did for Trump?
>>711244660
>Republicans didn't make any gains in terms of their numbers
this is blatantly incorrect
nice story tho
>>711244660
Trump also filled stadiums, and their message was almost identical. Bernie would have won, but the bias being pushed by the mainstream is the biggest disappointment.
I was a bernout that jumped on the train, because fuck Hillary Clinton, Globalist Fucking Cunt. I find it hilarious that hipsters and 99%ers were voting Clinton. Absolute retards.
>>711244421
Of course. This is what both sides were afraid of.
>>711244660
i think it was the same with biden. i think the dnc told the party it was hillary's turn regardless of other people's qualifications.
Yeah probably. Basic left wingers hate Trump enough they would have voted for Lenin's ghost. Nobody really was excited about Hillary but lots of people were excited about Sanders. He would have taken a bunch of independents too.
>>711245033
they didn't.... the votes weren't so much pro Trump they were anti Hillary, vice versa as well
yes
>>711244421
It would have been a lot closer, but Bernie would have still lost.
>>711244421
Every poll that asked this question showed a land slide yes
Probably.
Alot of the areas in MI and WI, went Trump as he was not Hillary. That's literally it.
They voted for Sanders in the Primaries, at a considerable margin.
>>711245374
Bernie seemed far better at energizing the Democratic base. Trump had similar votes as Romney. Clinton had far less then Obama did in 2012
>>711245404
>believing the polls
>>711245139
On the other hand, Lenin's Ghost would've probably voted Trump to weaken US economically and geopolitically.
>>711244421
no, sanders is a fucking commie. We dont like commies
>>711245530
People are stupid to support him, glad he lost.
>>711244421
Its quite possible too bad Hillary rigged the electoral college. So well never know
>>711245639
Or Lenin's ghost would have led a Proletarian uprising, and seized the means of Production
Sanders couldn't have won Ohio, Florida, Nevada or Virginia over Trump. I suspect he would have won the rust belt except Ohio though.
>>711244912
i think the question is whehter those who voted for trump would have been as motivated to with snaders as the alternative
so much mud was slung at hilary, sanders wouldnt have had the crooked baggage as he was fighting against the swamp too!!
>>711244421
he was more popular than HRC but beating Trump? Maybe.
>>711245678
I woulda prefered him over HRC or Trump.
Could maybe set us straight.
Atleast he radicalized a fair few of the younger voters to Socialist view point. Actual Socialist, not any of this Social Democracy like him.
>>711244421
Bernie and Trump had similar energy, both had big turnouts at rallies.
A lot of what helped Trump win is leftover Bernie working class voters in Michigan and Wisconsin, hard to say what would have happened with two complete outsiders in the race though. No states could be relied on to vote traditionally.
I think Trump would've dominated him in the debates because Sanders was weak as hell in the Dem debates, but I don't think that would've given Trumo the edge to win.
It's a toss up really.
>>711245033
Get ready to feel the Bern, you neo-Nazi Trumpcucks. There's a storm coming, in the form of millions and millions of disaffected Americans sick of having the American lie shoved down their throats by racist, homophobic Nazis like you and the mainstream media. Don't like what I'm saying? Go back to Faux News.
Capitalism has to be the greatest failure of organised government ever- but it came with the greatest lie ever told as well. Everything is fine. Keep consuming. Keep producing. You are what you own, and if you don't own anything, you are worthless.
The capitalist Ponzi scheme is falling, /b/rothers, just a little later than Marx predicted. It is coming.
>>711245730
This
>>711245127
so why on earth did they think she was the right one to go up against him......i know it seems obvious in hindsight
>>711244912
>>711244421
If you look at the exit polling, you'll note that it was the demographics that Bernie won quite handily in those swing states who went to trump. They weren't pro-Trump, they were anti-establishment. They know the system is rigged in numerous ways and the only two "main party" candidates who said it was were Trump and Sanders. Both drew massive crowds thanks to their "I'm an outsider and I will help destroy this rigged system to help you" speeches, but we now know the DNC misread the tea leaves as it were, thought they should help the media push a "pied piper" candidate via Trump by casting the entire RNC as corrupt, evil, racist, etc. and that the American people would be so disgusted by Trump she'd just get the presidency. The issue is that Americans don't vote against something, they vote FOR something generally speaking. Hillary had no message other than "You don't want Trump, do you?" And the media filled their airtime and papers and web articles extensively about Trump and the American people don't tend to like mainstream media sources to the point they instead heard "this guy is an outsider who thinks the system is rigged, he's clearly loony!" Well, obviously not loony enough to turn out anti-Trump voters for the Dems who are just as pissed at the system (of which Clinton was the poster child of) as their fellow Republicans.
"Better to burn it down and rebuild than try to just patch" was the mood in this election, and Trump is the match while Clinton was the patch.
>>711245872
>just like Marx predicted
Oh yes, his "natural emergent socialism" that was only brought about through bloody revolution. Can't wait for you degenerated to be crushed under heel.
>>711245138
she seemed the obvious choice, plus the whole 1st woman pres thing would have been attractive to a lot of citified morons who didnt uuderstand the anger of the rural masses
>>711245872
I really hope this is just a pasta
>>711245404
i think brexit and the us elections shows polls are shit run or biased by city media out of touch with the rest of the country
>>711245908
I'm actually not *entirely* sure, but I've heard a lot about the Dems purposely ruining his chances. To me, I think he just didn't get enough votes in the Primaries because he was slapped with the
>socialist
label, which as you know, Americans are terrified of anything that even resembles socialism (except for the postal system, social security, police, ambulance, fire safety, etc). So, we were made to accept Hillary, even though she ultimately lost (which I'm starting to think was intentional).
>>711244421
this trump voter would have voted sanders because he was even more fuck the establishment than trump was
so yes
>>711245677
sanders is a socialist no?
thats a huge difference
>>711244421
Most def, fam.
I met two trump voters. Both young, smart professionals and they were singing Bernies praises.
Even Trump himself bigs up Bernie.
The DNC shot itself in the face.
>>711245864
90% tax increase on anything and everything to help dumb people pay for college is not the answer.
>>711244421
>>711245707
>rigged electoral collage for nomination
>didnt bother with actual election....
tin foil shortage in your state
>>711244421
yea probably
>>711246230
Workers controlling the workplace. Working towards a class less society, were people work because it is personally fulfilling, and not just to survive.
That sounds quite nice if you ask me
>>711245872
thanks putin
>>711246140
Nobody is "socialismphobic", as I'm sure you libs like to think. We rightfully have gripes with the system.
Nobody wants their work to go towards someone else or the government, which are incompetent at running most things anyway.
Socialism only works in homogeneous nations, at which point it could practically be defined as national socialism.
>>711244421
Yes he would. Everyone wants free shit. He is a socialist and I'm sure someone will argue "No he is a Democratic Socialist it's different." Socialism is garbage.
>>711246405
Peoples incentive to do good at their job is money. More money = more opportunity.
You take away that incentive and your left with purposeless workers who have no motivation to do better or exceed expectations. Personal fulfillment only goes so far. I for sure didn't feel personally fulfilled when I was painting fences as a fucking kid.
>>711245926
yeh the negativity on both sides was ridiculous.....fear mongering and selling hate rather than hope
I think youre right about americans voting for rather than against and she had too much shit attched to her and trump didnt
i think sanders would have won in light of this
>>711246450
>you libs
I'm a moderate, which still translates to 'socialist' to MANY of the so-called "right."
But even you know socialism !== national socialism for a number of reasons.
>>711246647
If it's such garbage, how come the Social Democracies are usually the happiest?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/travel/worlds-happiest-countries-united-nations/
>>711244421
The margin for Trump would have been much wider. Bernzie wouldn't win a presidential election if he was the only person on the ballot.
>>711246760
PA might've gone red still, with the Amish swing vote kek. Other than that it looks good.
>>711245908
Because the Democrats would rather have Trump in office than a fucking communist.
>>711244421
Sanders is an idiot, he would have lost the election harder than Hillary. Socialists aren't trending in Usa, no matter what a bunch of retarded millennial kids tell you.
>>711246450
you know that equal distribution of wealth would make you by far richer than you are, right? right now you're working your ass off for some fat rich guys 3rd car and a nice diamond for his side chick. nothing would be worse than the current system. you literally defend and fight to keep your worst nightmare believing that the actual solution would be worse.
>>711246802
National Socialism at least proposes a motivation factor for work (as flimsy and formless as racial motivation is), whereas regular socialism just says "ima take this k?"
>>711246722
>falling this hard for the American Meme
>>711244912
Most of them, but even more importantly Bernie would have taken the independent vote. All the data had shown then, and now, that Bernie would have wiped the floor with Trump.
100% yes
he would have won Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania easily and thus won the whole thing
not sure which way florida wouldve gone but it wouldnt be needed for bernie to win anyway
>>711247005
My best bet for a Sanders v. Trump Election
>>711247141
Redistribution of wealth is a childish fantasy. The entire theory of socialism requires the state to fill in the role of entrepreneur (build means of production), and the contemporary an-comms seem to think this role can be filled by people. Simply untrue.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; national socialism is the only form that has been proven effective.
>>711247207
Bernie had a lot of traction in Florida, he'd have won it. I've also heard that he likely would have turned a few red states blue. The Democrats fucked up big time this election in screwing him over. They'd have not only won the presidency, but Bernie would have energized voters to vote democrat down ballot and they could have retaken Congress and Senate.
>>711247143
it actually says "here have this" to everyone but the top 1% of filthy rich guys
>>711244421
Populist left V Populist right
Yes, the left would win.
>>711246871
They exist because actual superpowers support their right to do so. Otherwise any real country would walk in and own you. They're like the art student that only lives well because daddy has a real job.
>>711244421
yes
>>711246450
but currently captitalism, the odds are staked towards the few.....so your work and hard earned agins go to the few rather than shared fairly
thats hardly a better system and the gap just gets wider and wider with each decade and more so with the digital economy
pros and cons to every system but i think bernies fairer society woud have been a worthwhile project
>>711246757
Thank you. Simple fact is that, even today, Sanders is still the most popular nationally elected politician (something like a net positive rating of +20 or so, which is way higher than anyone else right now). And despite everything the media, the DNC AND THE REPUBLICANS threw at him, he still came out looking clean. Fuck, when they tried to hit him on buying a new house, most comments I read were "dude is old and he apparently sold another house to get this one, what's the issue?"
Sanders had a message, had actual plans, would have carried the minority votes at probably right around where Clinton did but would have taken a huge bite out of Trumps white lower-to-middle class vote which probably would have helped. Fuck, even Jill Stein wanted the guy running and probably would have said "no running this year" if he won the primaries, which would have netted the dems around an additional +1% of the vote in some states and would have swayed more Libertarians to him too (after he bowed out, a fair number of his supporters went to Johnson, so it's safe to say they would have stuck on to the Dems had he been there too).
Again, Dems and the DNC fucked themselves over and even the talking heads are saying "the Sanders-Warren Dems look like they are about to inherit the Democratic party if push comes to shove" to the point they may be making those same people the party leaders. Sanders may even become the #2 Dem in the Senate if he wants it (he has said he doesn't want to be the #1 in the Senate but left all other places open).
>>711247411
You can't expect to live off the fat of the 1% ad infinitum, you will eventually need to tax the rest of the upper class, middle class, etc...
>>711246722
Thats way it must go in stages.
First Capitalism (For inovation)
Then as manufacturing and service jobs become automated
Then we could shift toward Socialism
Where jobs would be more creative and fulfilling. (Film, Art, Baking, Theatre)
>>711247143
People's mindsets overall need to change.
>the needs of the many
>outweigh the needs of the few
>or the one
The Vulcans would probably laugh at us, if they had less control over their emotions.
>>711246450
ive never met a single person who spouts the "socialism works in theory but not in practice" meme and actually has any understanding of the 'theory' beyond the dictionary definition of what communism or socialism are
>>711245872
>mainstream media
I didn't know the mainstream media supported Trump
>>711246760
nevada would probably be blue too
Bernie would've already been moved into the white house if we won the nomination. it would've been disgustingly unfair for Trump. But the DNC had to fuck that up by forcing Podes.. I mean Hillary on us.
>>711247452
literally wat
>>711247062
>doesnt understand political distinctions
commie=/=socialist
>>711247506
Capitalism has seriously failed at present. 1% controls 99% of the wealth, and a society can not survive that way. Velocity of money is a big deal. Ideally you want money to turn around fast. You get money, then spend it on bills, it goes back into the economy, and flows back to you eventually. That doesn't happen anymore. The money flows upwards and mostly stops there. The 1% are hoarding money at such a large rate that it's seriously killing the economy and the nation. Capitalism was great to get us to where we are, but a new socialist system is needed going forward.
>>711247338
it being hard to accomplish doesn't make it less ideal.
>>711244421
Possibly , he could have convinced me to vote for him over trump
>>711247845
By constantly airing his stuff non-stop, writing tens of thousands of articles and going on and on about him, all that meant to Americans is "he's a major political force who says he's going to help me by taking on the establishment" because distrust of the media is at a near all time high right now. If the media had wanted to take him down, they should not have aired any of his shit, like they did with Sanders.
>>711244421
yes, trump won because he was anti-establishment and so is bernie. idk why the DNC put the epitome of establishment against the only anti establishment. should have been toe to toe and bernie would have won.
>>711247648
An interesting theory, but again this requires huge state control over everything else.
What you're suggesting, and correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be a society where people are free to do as they wish while the government controls the economy and provides them with basic income.
I'm this society you would have a surplus of musicians, artists, etc... Liberal arts would be hilariously oversaturated. And not all of them would be good at what they do.
Personal fulfillment can only go so far in society, it's harsh, but jobs need to be done for society to run.
>>711244421
Almost certainly.
I only voted for Trump to keep Hillary out.
>>711247951
Most sensible person on 4Chan.
Neoliberal capitalism is dead in the water. It has failed on its own terms.
>>711244421
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-would-have-crushed-trump/
read it and weep
>>711248051
That's not supporting him. That's inadvertently helping him. That's not the same thing.
>>711247929
Commies are socialists, you fucking idiot, and Bernie is one.
>>711248071
Trump fucking IS establishment you retard.
hes so fucking rich hes 1% of the 1%.
or is he the only "man of the people" billionaire on the planet?
>>711247652
This is why I keep saying national socialism is the one form that works.
Hitler blinded the people of Germany together based on the Germanic identity ("I propose that Germans help, Germans etc..."), whereas modern socialism just says "you must help each other because I demand it". Humans aren't that altruistic to blindly help those they have nothing in common with.
we didnt want a woman so why would we elected a socialist cuck jew?
![a0d70ff41149d087dd01ef38c22c34a7[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/upxMcTO.jpg "a0d70ff41149d087dd01ef38c22c34a7[1].jpg")
>>711244421
>>711248249
Why did he propose to end the carried interest loophole that he himself has taken advantage of? Why did he expose Soros, Goldman Sachs, etc. and the other big lobbyists in politics?
You've been blinded by the narrative.
>>711245120
You dont know shit about politics and its very evident by your post.
Please kill yourself on livecam
>>711248372
Trump has already said none of his promises are promises, but merely suggestions. He won't get rid of the loophole.
>>711244421
I have zero respect for Bernie. He deserved to get fucked over because he won't do anything about it. He knows they rigged the primaries against him but he still supports Hillary after that? He's a pussy. The rest of the world would treat him like a pussy.
>>711248215
>the truth is what i say it is
i cant wait for you and your cohorts to be dead. The most arrogant self interested and childish generation this country has ever seen, the late baby boomers and whatever comes after them. The absolute definition of special snowflakes, sure millennials have some SJWs and other annoying cunts but your entire generation acts like the world owes them something. Truly despicable.
>>711244421
The Democrats messed the fuck up and boosted Hillary, the criminal, instead of him in the media. I'd say most likely.
>>711248461
Like I said, you're blinded by the narrative.
>>711244421
It doesn't really matter who wins, the people in control of the US don't care which puppet the sheep elect. It's all just a magic trick to give them the illusion they have a say in the matter.
>>711248215
Nope.
Commies are Capitalists as much as they are Socialists.
Marx's theory of "historical process" demonstrates societies must pass theough stages of development before reaching the Communist stage, where there is no state and no government.
>>711248276
>socialist cuck jew
are you for real.....do people like you actually exist or are you a child spouting memes from your moms basement? im actually interested to know
>>711245033
Trump got less votes than Romney
Republicans DIDN'T make gains in their voting, they just voted like they do in every other election.
Independents just couldn't get behind Hillary and either abstained from voting in the presidential race, threw a protest vote towards other parties, or simply fucking stayed home,
Bernie had enough enthusiastic liberals and independents behind him that there's a good chance he could have taken a narrow victory against trump
>>711248081
Ideally, the state would be abolished as well, and they basic organizational structure would be a directly democratic commune. The workplaces in the commune, regardless if creative, manufacturing, or service, would all be run as cooperatives. People would decided to do what ever they feel they are best suited in. Some may like being a cab driver, so they do that. Others may like cooking, so they work in a restaurant. Etc.
Cooperation between communes could be facilitated by a inter-communal assembly. Trade, Mutual aid agreements, etc would be discussed here
Also, by this point, we should have such a surplus of production, that we could community store houses where one takes what they need. (Money may or may not exist in its current form by now)
>>711248215
did your parents give you your opinions?
>>711248215
You're the idiot here. You can either look it up or keep being a retard.
>>711244421
DNC thought Hillary would win, legitimately. She had the media in her pocket, millenials, LGBT, etc. This is why they colluded with the media in the beginning of the DNC primary to fuck over Bernie. They chose Hillary to win before Bernie even had a chance. But with Wikileaks you can find quite a bit of rigging and collusion against Bernie, and this hurt the Bernie voters. Most still voted for Bernie, but many abstained, third party, or gave a fuck you vote for Trump against Hillary.
Bernie would have won, though not in a landslide. But the DNC and the media fucked themselves over.
No doubt the DNC screwed Bernie, but he could have never beaten Trump.
-too socialist. deep down Americans are capitalists and know that Bernie's promises were just to much "take from everyone else and give to everyone else".
-the guy honeymooned in Russia at the height of the Cold War. You don't think that would come back to bite his ass?
-his wife ran a school that went incurred significant debt that was supposed to be paid off by increased student tuition... not very socialist.
He talked a good game to people of his ilk (democrats and socialists) but for the general population he was wrong.
>>711248249
i think ppl have less problem with a rich business man than a rich politician
>>711248953
voted for Hillary*
>>711248652
You did good stalinism there;)
>>711248793
Interesting, this is the Rojava model is it not?
What happens when the storehouses run out? Does everybody deserve equal shares despite not producing the same amount of necessary items (timber, metal, etc.)?
I think the an-comm theory is alright, it just needs to blend in capitalist principles like supply and demand, there still needs to be work done in societies like this. And most importantly, everyone cannot be treated equally, because there will always be unequal production, service, etc.
>>711248582
>"the truth is what i say it is"
>doesn't realize the irony in saying that sentence.
Go back to school and learn political ideologies, you spastic.
>>711248652
>Commies are Capitalists as much as they are Socialists.
That's as retarded as saying "cats are reptiles as much as they are mammals."
>>711248081
>but jobs need to be done for society to run.
and when automation does all of our jobs for us?
if you dont think we are approaching a truly or at least nearly post scarcity world in terms of labor you are lying to yourself.
autonomous tesla cars will completely replace ubers/taxis within the decade, if not in a couple years
I would be very surprised if cheap 3rd world labor could compete with technology by even 2036, which is only 4 presidential elections away.
We arent there yet but we sure as shit need to keep an eye towards the future and be designing our current day society to be able to cope with technological advances
>>711248081
you think there's nothing left to do when people don't have to work to have an ok life? really? what about science? technological advancement? having people work at dull jobs that could be automated and done by robots just slows us down. your argument could be "most people are stupid, they will never be scientists" thats because they can't afford education and stupid loudmouths are being praised by the media. easily fixable.
>>711248929
I did look it up, and I was right. You're the one who needs to either look it up for himself and keep being a retard.
>>711244421
Just speaking for myself, I would have voted for Sanders in a heartbeat over Trump. I voted for trump basically because he wasn't Hillary.
>>711249140
Kinda Rojava-esqu I suppose. (More of my own formulation)
It's not like production would cease at that point, but be efficient enough that it can produce enough to support the population (And aid other communes aswell)
And with distribution of goods, it would be "Take according to your need" (Probably have a monthly cap on how much can be taken though)
I see what you mean with some capitalist features. In my view, there would still be something of a market economy for luxuries, but not for necessities.
And, Ideally, all would have equal rights regardless of contribution, as some may have physical limitations that prevents them from being as productive as others.
>>711248880
No, logic and reason gave me my opinions.
>>711248667
Bernie would have had more black people voting because they related better to him. Who on earth can relate to Hillary? the only reason people voted for her was because that was the other choice.
Bernie would have crushed Trump, because he made sense, and had no emails or "corrupt" shit hanging on him so people wouldnt have the same excuse they had for not voting Hillary.
In the end i blame hillary and that other bitch that helped her win by cheating. And if trump destroys the world, i hope hillary is there to see it happen. fuck that bitch.
>>711249724
>and that other bitch that helped her win by cheating.
Who? Abedin? Brazille? Wasserman-Schultz?
>>711249433
then you fundamentally misunderstand marx and marxist theory. Tell me how much literature have you read on this subject? You read the paragraph in you 7th grade social studies book?
>>711249057
thats wrong. the same way Obama was the popular candidate because of how he talked and acted, Bernie would have been the exact same.Bernie would have carried on the obama "fever"
>>711246760
I'd say this is pretty accurate
>>711249539
When automation takes over all manufacturing there is going to be a huge labor crisis, and I don't think any an-comm principles can prepare us for that.
Ideally the transition to a complete service/skilled work economy would take place, and hopefully it will, but that means throwing the entire blue collar to the curb.
I think he would have lost by even more.
The county is tired of politicians and and increasing restrictions imposed by Democrats.
Hillary at least got some sympathetic votes by women voting for a woman.
Bernie would not have had those votes.
>>711249724
glad shad made hilloli clitton though. probably wouldn't have happened if bernie stayed.
>>711247005
>the Amish swing vote
Best election comment yet
>>711249433
Marx stressed the necessity of the Capitalist stage of development. Communism wasn't possible without first going through Capitalism.
>>711249724
>Bernie would have had more black people voting because they related better to him
im not so sure, hillary whipped him in most states with large black populations... then again those were almost exclusively red states
although i agree he would have probably decimated trump a la 2012
>>711249630
>I did look it up
you really didnt did you
if it has been trump / sandes / clinton then sanders wins
>>711249977
Bernie would have at least taken a bite out of the white, rural-to-suburban vote Trump ended up winning. I know people in Missouri, Iowa and Michigan who said they weren't voting because they hated both candidates or were voting Trump because "fuck DC", but say that had Sanders been on the ticket as President nominee would have swung for him since he "talked the talk and wasn't racist".
>>711249717
yep you parents did, its ok
>>711249814
What does the amount of literature read on this subject have to do with anything? If you read 1000 books of bullshit and believe in it, that doesn't mean you're right. Especially when you don't even understand something as fundamental as left-wing and right-wing ideologies.
>>711250052
And that means him a capitalist how? His end goal is socialist, therefore so is he.
lol
>>711244421
Yes! It would have been a showdown!
>>711244421
probably. he's a lot smarter than trump is and has a silver toung. its a good thing though he showed his true colors when he immediatly endorsed hillary and started shilling for big pharma in california.
>>711250266
That guy is literally parroting what my parents say about Bernie.
He's centre left at best. And by no means is a commie. Barely even a socialist, if that
>>711247929
All Communists are Socialist, but not Alll Socialists are Communists
![st-vt-bernie-sanders-voting-record-vs-hillary-clinton[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Jjbto17.jpg "st-vt-bernie-sanders-voting-record-vs-hillary-clinton[1].jpg")
we got done over
>>711250570
Nope. His end goal is Communism.
The end of history, according to Marx is Communism: a stateless and classless society.
>>711250707
You're a fucking idiot.
If you look at Canada, somewhere where quality of life is much higher than it is here, you'll see that Bernie isn't actually a socialist. Literally the Conservative party of Canada is more liberal than Bernie is. You all need to realize that slightly liberal ideal's do not mean socialism
![3c0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UZMQU5E.jpg "3c0[1].jpg")
>>711250943
>>711250935
> thinking social democracy leads to communism
>>711250943
How so?
Is he advocating for the seizure of the means of Production by the Proletariat? Fuck No. He's advocating for a Nordic System.
>>711250935
>Nope. His end goal is Communism.
Yes, and communism IS socialist, you moron. Therefore Marx is too, he's both because communism is both! What the fuck is so hard to understand?
>>711244421
we only elected a catholic cause he was pretty, you really think we woulda voted for a crusty old joo that was promising to make us the USSR?
>>711251180
>Yes, and communism IS socialist,
How is a stateless society "Socialist"?
>>711250392
I dont make comments on subjects I am ignorant about. I havent read much about Hinduism so i refrain from making statements about what hinduism. Clearly you dont know much about marxism and yet you feel that you need to comment on it and that your opinion on the subject matters.
sidenote: reading a book doesnt mean unquestioningly accepting everything the author says...
>>711247139
Sanders is literally the most popular politician in the USA right now but keep believing that
>>711251083
You're very confused.
Social democrats aren't Communists.
>>711251180
Communism is socialist the same way Republicans are fascist. They have a lot in common but very different means how to get there (democratic process × revolution). And that makes a huge difference.
>>711244421
It would've been a landslide in Sanders's favor.
>>711247338
there are actually cases in history where ancomm small societies worked.
we also don't really know how well it could function with a heavily automated state arbiter, since the USSR didn't have the technology
>>711244421
Bernie would have pushed Trump's shit in. The DNC is directly to blame.
>>711251291
Communism is socialist because both of them are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production and centralized planning. Whether or not it's for a stateless society is completely fucking irrelevant. You think anarchism is communist as well? kek.
>>711251473
Doesn't mean that communism isn't socialist and that fascists aren't republicans.
>>711251645
The defining features of Communism is a stateless and classless society. There is no "ownership" at all.
>. You think anarchism is communist as well? kek.
Communists and Anarchists fight on the same side because they have the same goal: a statless society. They differ in their means of getting there. Anarchists reject the theory of historical process.
>>711251316
>I dont make comments on subjects I am ignorant about.
Neither do I.
>I havent read much about Hinduism so i refrain from making statements about what hinduism. Clearly you dont know much about marxism and yet you feel that you need to comment on it and that your opinion on the subject matters.
Yeah, sure. I don't know anything about Marxism, yet a autistic faggot on 4chan who doesn't even know the difference between left and right wing knows. Sure, whatever you say.
>sidenote: reading a book doesnt mean unquestioningly accepting everything the author says...
sidenote: Reading a lot of books doesn't make you right either. Come up with a real argument, also I never said I didn't read any books on Marxism, just that reading them doesn't mean you're automatically right as you think.
>>711249433
Your cladistics has grouping without intention to time, while his does. His are stages in a process, yours are unlinked, outside of animal, or living. Multiple axes allow for more accurate analogies. Bonus points, what about shared ancestors?
Nope, not a chance in hell he would have beaten Trump. The only people who believed his message were the 18-24 year old group. After that, his popularity went down rapidly.
Trump is better than Clinton and he is far from perfect himself, yet either of these two would have done a substantially better job than Sanders. The man is a lunatic that would have driven the American economy into the ground.
>>711252448
>. The man is a lunatic that would have driven the American economy into the ground.
It's apparent you don't understand economics.
Sanders economic plan was simply dirigiste, same as Germany's.
>>711252193
You're autistic. First of all, stateless societies have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's socialist or not. Communists and anarchists fight on the same side because they both want stateless societies, not because they're both socialist, you dumb fuck.
Second of all, there is ownership in communism, it's public ownership, everyone owns everything equally.
>>711245871
Sanders was weak in the debates because he didn't want to divide the dem party too much
>>711252728
>, stateless societies have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's socialist or not
How can you have a Socialist country without a State?
> Communists and anarchists fight on the same side because they both want stateless societies,
That's what I said.
>Second of all, there is ownership in communism,
There is no ownership in a Communist society. There is no State to enforce property.
All polls say yes. All logic says yes. Whatever happens in the next 4 years is squarely on two groups, the right wing of the Republicans who spent the best part of 20 years lowering the political discourse to Trumps level, and Hillary Clinton and the people who enabled her corruption.
The fact that Sanders isn't a sociopath was a good enough reason for me to want to vote for him.
>>711253118
>How can you have a Socialist country without a State?
Because socialism and statelessness aren't mutually exclusive and also don't really have anything to do with it each whatsoever?
>That's what I said.
If it wasn't an argument for why anarchists are communists, then why mention it in the first place?
>There is no ownership in a Communist society. There is no State to enforce property
That's the whole point! Oh my god, how do you not understand anything? Public ownership doesn't need enforcement.
>>711244421
Most likely
>>711253637
>Because socialism and statelessness aren't mutually exclusive
In a Socialist society the State owns production.
>If it wasn't an argument for why anarchists are communists, then why mention it in the first place?
Anarchists and Communists want the same thing: a stateless society. They differ in their means.
>Public ownership doesn't need enforcement.
There is no concept of "ownership" at all. "Ownership" is legally defined, it requires a State in order to exist.
Control does not equal ownership.
>>711244421
Not a chance.. old bastard could've even stand up to BLM thugs.. what fucking chance would he have had against Trump.
>>711247570
>libertarian voting socialist
K bro.
>>711244421
No, too many ways to make him look bad. Bernie didn't even care to contest the Clinton nomination. He just took it up the ass and told his supporters to be #WithHer.
As it turns out, being a Neoliberal cocksucker for the billionaire class drives voters away. The Left in the USA is broken post-Trump. The only way they'll even stand a chance in future presidential campaigns is if the DNC is taken over by a less pathetic and corrupt crew.
After Trump it would be interesting if /b/ could create a new democratic party around sanders and see a 3 way fight unfold between 2 democratic partys and the republicans next time.
Every major poll conducted before the DNC put Bernie several points ahead of Hillary when standing against Trump in a general election context. I have no doubt his political analysis and socialist narrative would have taken some of the wind out of the sails of the Trump campaign. Of course the eventual outcome is now unknowable; it has to be considered that if he /was/ the Democrat nominee that he would have been subject to intense media hostility - much worse than Trump - but all things considered I believe he would have fared much better than Hillary where the disaffected white working class vote was concerned.
>>711244480
The only acceptable answer. Sanders had way more hardcore fans and most of his fans that were more anti-establishment than liberal switched to independent or Trump.
Sanders also didn't have a controversy popping up every other day.
What could've hurt him was his more radical views. Hillary was just going to be a less popular version of Obama. Bernie on the other hand had big plans in mind which might've made a few people skeptic. Hillary had this "Play it safe" approach, so Trump couldn't really shit on her plans without spewing the same tired old conservative rhetoric.
It's hard to say and I feel like this will always remain a "what if" question in the mind of many.
>>711254690
>In a Socialist society the State owns production.
Not always. Proof: communism. That's like saying you can't have any democracy in a monarchy. There are many types of socialism, you autist.
>Anarchists and Communists want the same thing: a stateless society. They differ in their means.
Once again. If it wasn't an argument for why anarchists are communists, then why mention it in the first place?
>There is no concept of "ownership" at all. "Ownership" is legally defined, it requires a State in order to exist.
Except that there is. If you don't own something, you're not allowed to use it, therefore if you own nothing, you can't use anything. Everyone owns everything equally in a communist society, that's the whole point.
>>711244421
probably
>>711244421
Yes he would! I know many Republicans who were ready to vote for him.
Truth is many Republicans hate Trump but they hate Hillary much, much more, so they held their nose of the stench and voted for Trump.
>>711254690
>In a Socialist society the State owns production.
In a Socialist society, the State can own production on the behalf of the worker.
But it can also be that the Workers directly own production
>Anarchists and Communists want the same thing: a stateless society. They differ in their means.
An-Coms want the same as Communists
But other Anarchists may not (Mutualists, and "An"-Caps mostly)
>There is no concept of "ownership" at all. "Ownership" is legally defined, it requires a State in order to exist.
True. In the stateless case ownership would just not really be a thing (Beyond personal property)
And you cannot own something that doesn't exist.
While a Commune may own land or something, but if everyone uses it, is it really "owned"
>>711244421
I would have been really close. As a Trump voter I might have been swayed.
>>711245374
A lot of the 3rd party votes would have went to him. Not to mention his charisma being 100 times better than Hillary. I think he would have done a lot better than you imagine.
>>711244660
>That lady who got fired from the Dem's who was doing all that shady shit for Hilary should be to blame.
Absolutely!
Debbie Wasserman Schultz fucked America, in a bad, bad, bad way.
Stupid fucking cunt.
>>711247692
b/c their education of it ended after the 9th grade..
>>711244421
I think so. I voted Trump but would've voted Bernie if the Democratic Party didn't rig the primary.
>>711250935
with automation i believe it to be possible
>>711247692
Yea. Those who spout that typically only have the American Public School idea of it, and not anything of it in practice
Im hopeful the people would have voted for a candidate that wasnt a complete monomaniacal psychopath under the establishments rule if there was one
Probably not. I'm a millennial and all of my Co workers (ages 40-55) who make up a large percentage of voters were very against him because his policies sounded too costly to the taxpayer
>>711257631
Boomers are such a fucking retarded generation. They fuck up the country over and over and then complain about millenials
>>711257212
>>711256211
If you'd vote Bernie, then you have no idea about politics whatsoever. Trump and Bernie are pretty much polar opposites. That would be as retarded as voting for Hitler when you planned on voting for Stalin but he lost.
>>711244421
No. Trump would have whipped out his fat pocket book, and sanders would heel at his feet like a drooling dog
>>711257878
You're forgetting about generation Y bitch
>>711244421
no.
Someone thread me.
>>711258381
Millennials are a retarded extra gene in our DNA
>>711258659
ok grandpa its the young peoples fault with their crazy music and strange clothes
>>711244421
Yep
>>711244421
He wouldn't have ended up looking like a fucking criminal cause the FBI opened up an investigation on him mere days before the election. Dems wanted him anyway, There wouldn't have been the big email scandal on him like it was on Hillary. That is what cost her. All the newfags who felt cheated and like their votes didn't matter so they either didn't turn out to the polls at all or if they did it was a protest vote. Had it been Sanders vs the Trump media clusterfuck like it had been I'm confident Sanders would have won.
Even people that didn't want to vote Trump didn't feel right about handing their vote to Hillary cause she reeked of corruption so bad, her and the DNC
t;;dr yeah I think he could have won. Would have been a good president too
>>711258659
Millennials are no different from any other generation, you fucking moron. Always the same "durrrr kids these days hurr", shut the fuck up. The generation before yours hated you just as much.
>>711244421
no, bernouts are fucking retarded if they think so
>>711244421
Yeah
>>711251180
>communism IS socialist
>doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism lmaoooo
I actually kind of liked Bernie simply because he seems like a decent human being (for a politician). I think his policies were retarded. I just felt like he wasn't a corrupt criminal cyborg with no emotions (clinton), or a pompous arrogant bufoon with a loud mouth (Trump).
Plus congress would have put a major leash on Sanders and 90% of his socialist policies would have gone nowhere. In the end I think he would have just kept us out of wars and maybe made college more affordable for people (not free), just more practical. There is no way free college would have ever actually happened.
>>711259603
>doesn't know the difference between communism and socialism lmaoooo
Clearly you don't. "lmaoooo".
>>711259715
This
>>711257986
I'm a registered republican, but I vote for who I think would do a better job as a whole despite my personal beliefs. I may disagree with Bernie on things, but overall he would've been the best option in my opinion.
>>711259603
You do realized that by definition
Communism is always socialist?
But Socialism is not always communist?
>>711259758
>>711260013
you stupid niggers. >>711251180
was insinuating that communism and socialist are one in the same. learn to read
>>711244421
I dont know if he was able to win against Trump, but if he had been candidate against Trump I would have vote for him.
>>711248443
>being this bluepilled
>>711244421
I think he would have for sure.
>>711260013
Bernie had supporters in both sides of the isle a lot of people interviewed were asked if Bernie didn't win would they vote for Hillary and resoundingly they said no. They didn't want an established candidate like Hillary that were part of the inner circle. Bernie literally had supporters within the democratic party and independents.
He was the guy most people wanted. Like everyone has said the DNC wanted to shove down Hillary down our throats and the public went Nope.jpg
If Bernie would've had the primaries I believe with all certainty he would've had it. Bernie would've killed in the debates.
>>711260438
>was insinuating that communism and socialist are one in the same
nobody said that. there was only this post
>>711251180
>communism IS socialist
in your logic everything is the same
> milk is a drink -> drink and milk are the same
> obama is a nigger -> nigger and obama are the same
> water is a chemical -> chemical and water are the same
>>711246182
This, and do I did the exact same thing
>>711260438
I'm>>711251180 and no, I never said they're the same, you stupid nigger, YOU learn how to read. All I said is that communism is socialist, which it is. By your retarded logic since dogs and cats are both animals, dogs must also be cats.
>>711262026
hey faggot
both post make the same point
what post was first?
>>711248215
>Commies are socialists
found the amerifat
>>711262218
>both post make the same point
No, they didn't. >>711261393 is being a retard and assumes >>711251180 meant that communism and socialism are the same. >>711261981 explained that he wasn't and that things can be part of the same group without being the exact same thing, like communism and socialism.
>>711262763
What the fuck are you talking about? Communism is literally socialist.
see
>>711261981
>>711244421
Probably, stupid Dems fucked it up. I voted for him in the primaries and wouldn't have voted for Stein if he ran for president.
>>711244421
Possibly. Not sure how some of his more socialist policies would have went down with the republicans, but his chances would have been a lot better. Not being a corrupt liar would have looked fairly favorable compared to Trump.
>>711245730
Couldn't have
The Kaiser wouldn't be bankrolling his revolution this time.
>>711263170
Read literally anything about either one of those things and realize what an uneducated cunt you are.
>>711262763
Commies are socialists, you dumb fuck, just like how Catholics are Christians and vegans are vegetarians. They're all subgroups of the other.
>>711263592
If you don't know that communists are socialists, then you're the uneducated cunt. What's next? You're going to say that squares aren't rectangles because rectangles and squares aren't the exact same thing?
>>711244421
>would Sanders have beaten Trump if he had gained the democratic nomination??
Absolutely. People that follow this stuff closely all unanimously agree that Bernie would have wiped the floor with Trump. But, truth be told, that would have been really bad. What this country needs is an end to the SJW phase and cries of "racism!" over every little thing. It is hindering our growth as a society.
Minorities should never be in control of the majority like they are now through their shaming and bullying tactics. White people are scared to accidentally offend a black or gay person. It is common sense. And everytime it happens, all those minorities get killed or ousted. Every single time. It's all in our history books. The minority need to stop trying to control the majority - for their own sake. Because shit is just now starting to backfire.
>>711263676
He's right you know. Communists are a subset of socialists without a state.
>>711264398
Yes, that's what I just said.
>>711264019
Personally I welcome the next Hitler. Hopefully he can get the job done this time.
We would have colonies on Mars and the Moon and probably have cured cancer already if the Nazis had cleansed the world. Sure, my family probably would have been exterminated, but I think 1000 years from now the genetically pure master race would sing songs of how great hitler was on terraformed mars.
>>711244421
possibly , but see too busy being mad to see that the DNC did this, protest the DNC
>>711265186
I'm hoping this election reforms both parties. But I doubt it. Politics has been fucked up for all of human history.
The unfortunate thing about political power is it attracts the exact people who should never have political power. The intelligent and kind people who would make great leaders are too busy being surgeons or scientists or teachers or something productive.
>>711244421
No.
>>711245404
Were these the same polls that showed the landslide victory for Hillary?
>>711244421
Possibly. He certainly had better chances of beating Trump than Clinton, due to a good chunk of his supporters saying outright they would never vote for Clinton.
If I remember, some of his supporters ended up voting for Trump due to the DNC email leaks.
I didn't vote, but I would have voted for Bernie against Trump
>>711245404
keep trusting those polls, faggot
>>711244421
easily like by 5 like million votes
