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Chastity Cage Thread ! All in chastity welcome ! subby straights,

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Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

Thread replies: 234
Thread images: 97

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Chastity Cage Thread ! All in chastity welcome ! subby straights, traps, sissies, femboys, cd !
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>>709658833
Why would someone do that?.
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>>709658833

the Birdlocked Mini seems like the best "punishment" cage, it's absolutely mini and completely cucks your attempt to get hard, and it has that evil ball spreader installed on it.

>>709658965
lots of girls actually love keeping their males locked thus eliminating their masturbation once and for all, and always keeping them ready for sex.

>since my penis got locked, went from once a week to 4-5 times a week.
>>
sissies getting teased by a mistress : )
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>paint your toenails anon and you'll get to have an erection in 28 days instead 30 : )
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>>709659198
Happy ED before 30
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>>709659198
You can mastúrbate all you want and also have sex everyday m8.

If there is a thing of power, and you as a male give your partner the control of your sexuality, well i guess its Ok, but then you are definetly a cuck.
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My new birdlocked
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>>709658833
>>709659198
What would you say is the best beginner cage to get? UK here
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>>709659637

i wish we could find a good bull anon

cute af anon, i have a clear one but my holytainer is pink. i was forced to wear it into my gym shower last week along with my matching pink painted toenails.

>when your gf is thrusting deeper and deeper inside you, it's hard to say no when she makes you agree to something even as humiliating as wearing your cock cage and showing painted toenails in "public"
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>>709659902

cb6000s, lots of ring and spacer options to help you find a great fit for future cages and it's not bad to wear at all. mine has lasted 8 years.
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>>709660124
You sure I should get the S not normal? I'm about 3inches+ soft
>>
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>>709660308

im 1.5 soft to the S was an easy choice, id still rpoly go with the S, smaller is better. more comfy you dont want to be semi erection, you want total denial(trust me on this)
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>>709660528
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i miss kitten so much
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Like my sissy abdl slut?
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>>709661058
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>>709660621
Are you sure? I don't really have the money to waste if it doesn't fit >~<
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i actually just got out of chastity last week. thinking about asking my wife to put me back in.
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>>709658833
i love this idea so much. unfortunatly my last gf wasn't into it at all.
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>>709661058
>>709661376
>>709659404
All junk ebay cb-x knockoffs
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>>709660638
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>>709662145
there's almost very little as enjoyable as watching my wife pleasure herself while my dick is locked up in a cage.
>>
Hello!

Would you like to help trigger some autist on /tv/?

Vote for "Dolorable" in this poll

http://www.strawpoll.me/11513628/
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>>709662145
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>>709662273
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>>709662273

i love "prepping" my gf's toes before she fucks me

I get fucked every weekend, but i only get to be inside her once a month : 0
>>
bump
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>>709661832
I know. I want to buy him something better. I've seen a great metal one with anal and urethra attachments but he still lives at home so getting things to him is impossible without someone finding out.
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>>709662792
I highly recommended the birdlocked. It's like $177 shipped within a few days to the US. I ordered Sunday night and got it Wednesday morning. Been wearing it since.
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>>709662492
my favorite is going clubbing with her while i'm in my cage. watching her dance around in skimpy outfits, knowing i can't get to do anything about it. plus a few places doing pat-downs or have metal detectors, i have to wait outside for an hour or so while she's in there by herself.
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>>709662459
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>>709663032
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>>709663091
a million times this.
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Morreeee piiccccsss this is fucking hot
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>>709662990
This is what I want to get him. Hopefully he'll let me send something one day. Never heard of birdlocked I'll have a look
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Wath is this shit ?

Wath this is for ?
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>>709663091

my all time favorite "CiC" (cuckold in chastity) pic. her bull is deep inside her, the key taunting the cuck on her necklace, and her soft warming loving grip on her cucks frustrated balls and penis : )
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>>709663091
where do i find girls that are into this :( so fucking hot
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>>709663091
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>>709663546
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>>709663616
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>>709663330

See
>>709659742
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>>709663763
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i have too many pics to dump here. i'm lazy with all this waiting 15s between posts.
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>>709664021
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>>709663997
Looks nice. I can't help thinking the metal ones are best, probably because they look more substantial.
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>>709664291
They are, but in my opinion they're not as comfortable for longer term wear. I think the birdlocks are nice, so are the cb's and holy trainers.
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>>709663330
Where does this weird ass ball go? How do you even wear this things? What's it look like while worn?
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>>709663871
>fat
>tiny dick

Not much of a bull.
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>>709664639
lol where do you think it goes ? there's only one place that lines up with it
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>>709664558
I'm his daddy so forcing him into something a little uncomfortable will be hot for both of us.
>>709664639
Up your ass
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>>709664639
Uh, up his ass
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.bmp
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All these fat deviant fucks with plastic on their dicks are the jokes of society and need to be put down or just cut your dicks off. Please don't contaminate society more with your deviant children seeds. Just lock that faggot dick up and chop off the whole ordeal and be done with your retardation.
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i miss my keyholder =(
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>>709664841
I also don't think the metal ones are that cute and can present problems with everyday wear, like Airport security
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>>709665161
gaiz, somebody doesn't like the same things i like! let's call them retards to make me feel better about myself!
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>>709665220
they are sturdier and i think have a better aesthetic. but they are problematic with meetal detectors, because of the weight, etc. i've tried both and now we only exclusively use metal. just seems to be a bit better.
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>>709665266
>>709665161
Its not that I and many others don't like it, it's that it's the faggotiest shit ever created and dumb. Also disgustingly deviant. Go watch your gf get plowed by someone else and enjoy it some more, faggot.

Its funny imagining these cocks actually diluting themselves with the thinking after you do this shit even once, your gf will ever look at you the same way again. This shit itt and the words "healthy, etc." are soo untrue it's funny.
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>>709666192
Chastity doesn't automatically mean they're a cuck.
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>>709666192
i see you suffer from the same ignorance as most. chastity != cuckoldry. a lot of guys are quite happy being locked up in a cock cage but would be furious and depressed if their wife fucked someone else. conversely, a guy might like watching his wife get plowed, but would never put his dick in a steel cage.

think before you speak, anon. it prevents the verbal diarrhea from just flowing out like that.
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>>709665190
I'd punch you right in the dick if I saw you weirdos doing this weirdo shit near my house. The fuck is wrong with you faggot?
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>>709659198
birdlocked mini any good for long term?

I'd love to get a cage that I can lock on for weeks at a time
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>>709659404
0/10
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>>709666192
>disgustingly deviant
yeah a man and woman enjoying some powerplay. utterly gross. it can only be a man who's in control obviously
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>>709659404
I wish I had a mistress to lock and tease me in!
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>>709666643
a highly logical and mature reaction to seeing a couple enjoying something you don't understand. assault and battery. that's normally the reaction to the unfamiliar that gorillas have. good job on that evolution, anon. keep it up.
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>>709666518
That's like saying a faggot only started kissing boys, not fully getting fucked in the ass.

The whole chastity thing is about being a faggot cuck and being made fun of it by the chick or faggot(?) these dick straps are like a gateway drug to full blown cuckold. I mean it's all in the same field. It leads up to it.

You should all feel really bad.
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>>709666716
Absolutely, love mine, very comfortable.
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>>709667088
But nothing about public indecency?

Honestly, I am into chastity, but there's no reason for you to flaunt it in public like that, unless in a place where that is acceptable, like a fetish place
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Been locked up all week. Thinking about doing no fap November in the cage.
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>>709666535
Its all the same realm of faggotry. Keep trying to make clear distinctions between the two though, it's kinda funny.

Beta faggots liking doing beta faggot shit. If you like getting your dick locked up in a cage, you are deep down the definition of beta male or maybe embrace that you are already.

Alpha men do not lock their dicks up. If anything they like being the aggressor lockong their bitch up.
>>
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>>709667190
Is that the same as having a petty argument with someone online is a gateway to being hated by society? Your argument is fairly flawed my friend.
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>>709667088
Go watch some more progressive liberal YouTube videos and support feminism and all that faggot shit that I guarantee you already do.

Dicks in cages were invented by feminists. It's actually a woman fantasy, which you faggots somehow get turned on by.
>>
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>>709667637
Just calling people faggots is not going to change their reasoning you understand?
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>>709667190
that is the dumbest "logic" i've ever read
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>>709667088
I understand it perfectly. It doesn't make it a good thing. I mean, if you want to be even more of a beta faggot, by all means keep locking your tiny dick up. This world doesn't need more low testosterone, sjw, fem, pussy faggot dudes. There's far too many today and this shit just makes it that much worse.
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>>709667441
that's depressingly atavistic.

>me man
>me have dick
>me own woman
>woman make dick happy
>ugh ugh
>pounds chest
>>
>Girl I like tells me
>"Can you believe (boyfriend) doesn't eat pussy?"
>Waaat!? Maybe you should be more assertive, lock his dick up.
>Or maybe I can eat it, no sense letting it go to waste lol
>"hmm...that sounds fun"
Not sure which option she thinks sounds fun...
What do? I'd really love to become her pussy slave on the side.
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>>709667637
>Dicks in cages were invented by feminists. It's actually a woman fantasy, which you faggots somehow get turned on by

ok good we understand that women can't have fantasies, and if they're automatically degenerate. while men can do whatever the fuck they want of course
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who else holytrainer here? :3
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>>709658833

Fuck off and die FAGGOT.
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>>709667807
>>709667599
How is it illogical that these faggot cages are in the same realm of being a cuck? It is the definition of cuck behavior. Cucks enjoy wearing submissive chasity shit where women control them and tell them what to do.

If you wear a faggot cage, you get off on women telling you what to do or being dominant. Prove me wrong. You can't, logically.
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>>709668030
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Small-Male-Chastity-Belt-Chastity-Device-Keuschheitsgurtel-Holy-Trainer-V2-/162220587185

soon i will be anon! soon!
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>>709667854
7.5" isn't tiny, and i already have two kids.

wait - you mean somebody can be a normal, productive, intelligent member of society AND have sexual kinks and fetishes totally unrelated to that fact?
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>>709668030
CB3000
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>>709667801
If being called a faggot, for doing actual faggot stuff, doesn't motivate you to stop being a faggot you are already lost.

You should not want to be a faggot, or engage in faggot activity like this thread, that's fucking gay.
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>>709667950
Faggot or femanon idk which. Back to Tumblr
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>>709668150
lemme guess - you're into rape porn, or porn where the woman is tied up or otherwise abused? feel the need to assert dominance over women to prove to your peers that you're masculine? seems pretty insecure, dude.
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>>709668173
good choice anon. first device?
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>>709668344
If they want to be with women, how is that gay?
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>>709667960
If you can't tell which, you will never eat her pussy and will forever be married to your hand or body pillow, friend
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>>709659404
Do this next you fucking degenerates
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>>709668565
Compared to you who could very easily be married to their cousin
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>>709668513
It'll be my second. I have a clone of the CB6000S, but its not very comfortable at all, because the rings are grooved.
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>>709668299
hawt
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>>709668150
>If you wear a faggot cage, you get off on women telling you what to do or being dominant. Prove me wrong. You can't, logically.

like... what ? yes men get off because the woman has control but that doesn't make you a cuck lol. there are so many sexual fetisches about power play but by your logic if you are ever not in control during sex you automaticly become a cuck and thus a fag. a woman gives you a lapdance but ties your hands behind your back ? CUCK YOU FUCKING FAG yeah that's how you think. yes some people in chastity are cucks but not all of them just like some cucks don't like chastity. similar how all ballons stretch, but not everything that stretches is a fucking balloon. do you get that ?
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>>709668504
Just regular and some anal. I rarely look at porn anymore I just fuck my gf who constantly wants to suck my dick when I get in the mood. Porn doesn't do it for me anymore after 15+ years almost every day. I do believe women arent worth much more than parenting and getting fucked though (for the most part aside from a few cases)
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>>709668895
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>>709668030
I've got a clear one. (Short tube, 45mm ring)

Thinking about getting a custom metal cage to replace it, but I might wait until after Christmas so money isn't quite as tight.

I'd love to get a shorter tube if I can manage, but I pretty comfortably fill the HT.
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>>709667088
Sorry people might not understand a couple weird pieces of shit walking around outside with a small caged up cock being held like a fucking dog. Get some help before someone hurts your dumb ass.
>>
I can't stop masturbating, do you think that this could be an option?
Ofc using it only during the day when I'm alone at home, when I go to sleep I want to have regular night boners.
Is it there any risk?
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>>709668538
Because most enjoy watching their gfs get fucked by other guys. Or will have fantasized about it if they wear cages. Secretly wanting to get fucked in the ass and mouth by the more alpha guy fucking their partner.

With so many people in society today, these fetishist are actually a good thing I guess. Once you tell your gfs about these faggot fetishes, they can start looking for a new bf secretly. No woman actually WANTS to be the dominant one in the bed.

Its instinct to want to the the "chastity" one. You faggots making your gf a do this shit and them going through with it to try and seem outgoing and into new things, are doing all us alphas a favor actually. So yeah, keep up with it. What am I saying.

I'm the type of guy your gfs end up with because their bfs were into some faggot shit. I've already been with about three girls that have told me after a while their exes were too submissive etc. The word faggot gets brought up a lot too. Too many faggot dudes today.
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>>709668671
Was born and raised in a largr city I don't get your redneck reference.
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>>709669526
>No woman actually WANTS to be the dominant one in the bed.

hahahaha sure they're not in the majority but NONE ? have you met more than 5 women in your life ?
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>>709669608
You obviously "got" it to understand it was a redneck reference you dunce.
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>>709668817
Now you're making comparisons no where related to eachother. Tying your hands behind your back and wearing a dick cage are two very different things and no where in the same realm.

Faggot cages are in the same realm as Cucks. Cucks wear cages. Cage wearers aren't always Cucks but in the same realm.
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>pic unrelated
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>>709669353
Don't bother mate.
You still need the willpower to not unlock.
otherwise you're just adding an extra step.
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>>709669898
>Cage wearers aren't always Cucks
there you go, now was that so hard ? that's the first logical thing you've said
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>>709670085
nah, there's solutions. there's timed locks, where you put the key into a box that can only be opened after a certain amount of time has passed. there's keyholder services offered by web dommes, but i wouldn't trust those unless you're a big gambler. you could always mail it to some non-existent address and wait for the return to sender.
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>>709669898
>Tying your hands behind your back and wearing a dick cage
These are both bondage
>>709669898
>cages are in the same realm as Cucks.
These aren't nearly as related.
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>>709670241
seeing as he wants to unlock every night I don't see this working.
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>>709670459
i mean, yeah, that'd be useless. but there are solutions to prevent himself from unlocking every night. so he has to wait 2-3 days between jacking off and start learning some self-discipline.
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Lurking
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>>709669851
I didn't get why you would use it at all, the reference didn't fit or even come close. You think the type of people who fuck their sisters are actually on 4chan? No they're actually fucking their sisters.
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>>709669353
it's not going to work if you only wear it for a few hours a day if you really can't stop you'll just do it the second it comes off. soemone else needs the key and you should alteast try for 2 day periods. it'll be a start
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>>709658833
topkek actually wearing that shit
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i used to have a bunch of pics my wife sent me with my key, but that was on my old phone and i was too embarrassed to have them transferred when i upgraded. the salesgirl was cute and i didn't want her to somehow see them.
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>>709669898
There are no actual cucks. The "cucks" you see posting images of niggers fucking white guys "gfs" are really just upset niggers mad at the white man for keeping them down as they all flunk or skip school and amount to nothing and need a scapegoat.

Its all just actual niggers trolling.
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>tfw you're caged by stepmom just like dad.
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>>709670863
"have them transferred" ? why not just do it yourself it takes 2 minutes tops
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>>709670863
>i didn't want her to somehow see them
>Being a chastity cuck and not having exhibitionist fetish.
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>>709670863
how do you hide your cage in clothes when going outside? isn't there a bulge?
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>>709671262
yeah but i wear loose clothes so it's not noticeable.
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>>709667411
save up for a full body wax, get a proper landing strip
Also the holy trainer is the best, it's so comfy I always forget it's there~
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>>709671155
>>709671233
Mmm digits.
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>>709671377
It wont stop.
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>>709671575

more feet
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On my 4th full week locked up in a row!
After the next release I'm going for two weeks, and after a few of these I'll add another week and so on. :)
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>>709671730

gurl or girl feets?
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>>709671912
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>>709671912
how long did it take you to get accustomed to your device? specially at night?

also pic on all 4 from behind plz
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Anyone got a chastity fag taking big cock with the cage on?
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>>709671912

please post more barefeet, sexy and feminine : p
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>>709670085
>>709670797
the problem is that I have nobody to give the keys.
Anyway wouldn't be a problem for me to take it all the day, but I read somwere that if you stop the night boners you can have serious problems to erection later
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>>709664021
is that you?
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>>709672218
Closest I got, these pics aren't fresh

I am still not fully accustomed to the nights, in the morning sometimes morning wood is unbearable so I take the cage of and put it back on when I shower. Other wise I've been playing with chastity for quite a few years, but so far the holytrainer as been very easy to wear for long periods of time. It's my favorite device so far, no doubt. I also have a cb-6000 knock off, a KHD Espresso and a birdlocked.
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>>709671916
Feminine fag feet pls
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>>709673048
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>>709672724
Thank you, but I'm afraid I don't really have any bare feet pics
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>>709673048
okay, you have a really nice figure. Do you work out?

also longest period without cumming?
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>>709673048
dam how you so smooth
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>>709673166
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>>709673048
how do you get your dick inside one of those things without a micropenis
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>>709673717
foxy.
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>>709672819
some people argue that it can be bad if you stay in for too long but you're not going to have any permanent damage from 1 or 2 nights that's for sure. the key is trickier if you don't trust anyone with it. that's a thing i'm having trouble with aswell
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>>709673166
>>709673851
>>
>>709673807
Lube. Also might be different for growers and show-ers. I'm a grower so i gotta get really soft beforehand. Which is difficult since i get really excited about the prospect of locking my dick.
>>
>>709673475
Thank you so much<3

I do some yoga in the morning, and I do light lower body workout "regularly", stuff like squats, donkey kicks and the likes, but I have a job that's pretty physical. I do maintenance in a gay sauna ;)

I've actually never been over week without cumming, but that's gonna change soon! Plus now I always play with my butt on releases when I get to cum, hopefully I'll eventually manage to do some hands free fapping!
>>
>>709674066
i recently got a cb6000 but cant get it in for the life of me lubed up, even when im not getting an erection trying to get it in
>>
>>709673641
fresh wax! :D

>>709673807
I'm about 6.5", not having an erection when putting it on is pretty tough, but I'm getting good at it!
>>
>>709659198
>A L L H A I L T H E C U C K L O R D
>>
>>709674154
Nice ass. Just a factual way, not in any way homosexual, of course.
>>
>>709674526
Thanks, faggot
>>
>>709674462
ever tried the stocking method?
>>
>>
>>709675041
this makes me happy
>>
>>709674956
That's what I used to do, but I don't need it anymore.
>>
>>709674154
what do you use to play with your butt?
got any pictures while you're 'playing'?
>>
>>709675431
noticed any shrinkage? thats kinda what im worried about most
>>
>>709675231
>>
>>709675637
No that poster but I haven't. You do get less physically excited about it though do it becomes easier
>>
My HolyTrainer v2 with smallest tube. Pretty comfy.
>>
>>709675994
>>709675801
ever managed to achieve orgasm through anal play with the cage on?
>>
>>709675994
more?
>>
>>709676699
Oh yea, easy. Does help that my birdlocked is silicone so I can play with myself a bit
>>
>>709675994

cute af
>>
>>709661376
ooo moar!
>>
>>709676844
what kinda toy do you use? and for how long until you cum
>>
>>709676699
Yeah, very often.

>>709676731
>>709676847
>>
>>709676844
>>709677115
how long are you locked in for when you do?
>>
>>
>>709677313
Days
>>
>>709677115

if you keep posting, ill keep saving. it looks like you have cute feet too! any with painted toes?
>>
>>709677431
do you do anal stuff daily?
>>
>>709658833
these things literally rip your dick off.
countless reports of them getting caught on things when people fall, even your pants.
rip your genitals right off,..
>>
>>709677616
No, maybe a couple times a month. Got some BD toys I like
>>
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>>709677313
Dunno, I can do it every day if I want to, even multiple times a day if I'm feeling extra horny.

>>709677458
Never actually painted my toes.
>>
>>709677978
what do you use to achieve it?
>>
>>709678648
Prostate massagers, dildos, fingers, vibrators, whatever suits my fancy at the time.
>>
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>>709675475
I don't have any pictures, no. I'm usually too busy to take pics
I do have a bunch of toys though.
>>709675637
Naw man no shrinkage
>>
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>>
>>709678980
sounds awesome, made any videos of your orgasms?
>>
>>709679757
Filming is usually too much effort, so no.
>>
>>709679996
aww too bad. what i wouldnt give to replace your toys and make it happen
>>
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>>709679996
Super cute butt
As it always been easy for you to come from anal?
>>
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>>709680314
Not always, but I remember when I was a teenager that I masturbated with my butt so much over one period of time that my natural horny response was to shove stuff up my butt and it just sort of developed from there really.
>>
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>>709680753
Damn, lucky you
I'll just keep working on it I guess
>>
Lol, pathetic. Wish I could find some of you losers to have my way with your wife.
>>
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>>709681015
It didn't take much, I just masturbated with something up my butt every time for like a month, then I noticed one day that it felt weird without something up my butt.
>>
>>709681296
has it changed anything when having sex?
>>
>>709681015

that pink birdlocked looks so good on you.
>>
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>>709681527
Not really, I've never been that interested in penetrating someone. I'm mostly gay and when I have sex with women I normally prefer some butt stuff or submission to be involved.
>>
Caged Faggo checking in!
>>
>>709681988
Thank you
I should have went for the mini though :(
>>
How would you put a ftm in chastity?
>>
>>709682857
With a female chastity device? The belt ones.
>>
>>709682992
is there room for the clit growth? i feel like it would rub against the belt a lot
>>
>>709682524

im 3/4th of an inch flaccid, the mini is even a little too big for me. i cant wait to get my custom jailbird.
>>
>>709683241
Unless they have abnormally large clit growth, it normally isn't an issue. But I guess an FTM would have abnormally large clit growth... If it doesn't grow to more than one inch protruding out, it shouldn't be an issue.
>>
>>709682992
>>709683241

you of them have an accessory called a "clit clip" that constantly keeps the clitty aroused and frustrated, it's amazing to see what it does a girl in less than a night.
>>
>>709659300
This looks interesting
>>
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>>709683624
some*
>>
>>709671132
boner alert
>>
here is me :)
>>
>>709683937
you're going to wreck your corset tying your strings around the waist like that.
>>
>>709682524
I feel like I should have bought the mini as well. The really wide base gives some extra room. The tip of my penis is at the base of the tip on the birdlocked. I've only once or twice completely filled it and that's when I've been partially aroused.
>>
>>709684222
i don't tie em too tight around my weighst so it's fine :)
>>
>>709684543
The friction will still destroy your fabric. You should learn to tie them in the back and tuck them into your laces.
Plus it looks like yours is possibly silk, which is susceptible to friction wear (it is tough versus shearing, not friction)
>>
Where can I find more webms if sissies in cages getting blacked, /b/?
>>
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>>709684543
lower you're body fat m8
>>
>>709685708
You think this m8 is fat? Srsrly?
>>
>>709669188
I was thinking about getting a HT. I want the smaller cage though, how small do you have to be to fit? Im like 5.5 in hard but usually less than 2 inch soft
>>
>>709685708
That guide is so ridiculous.
For food yeah soy and stuff might feminize you, but isoflavones are predominantly antiestrogens. They have high estrogen receptor infinity and low transcriptase activity. They occupy receptors and don't do anything.
Pueraria mirifica is just isoflavones + cuomestrol. You can buy standardized extracts of isoflavones from soy and cuomestrol in 1000x the dosage of PM and standardized in red clover supplements.

Although given the above "antiestrogen" argument there have been cases of guys eating excessive phytoestrogens and getting lactation, gyno, etc. but it's usually around 150-300mg of isoflavones while also having diabetes (diabetes significantly increases estrogen by altering LH, FSH, and prolactin levels). Supplements usually come in about 40-60mg isoflavone per pill.

My recommendation is if you're going to take herbs to do anything at all is take vitex castus-agnus in 100mg amounts, it will raise your prolactin levels. Don't go over 150mg or you lower prolactin and increase test synthesis. This is due to dopamine receptor flooding.
Phyto's sort of work, it's iffy. Your testicles actually function via estrogen and interrupting your bodies natural estrogen receptors and estrogen synthesis might actually cause your testes to atrophy so phyto's might actually reduce test over time given enough amounts of it. I'd take isoflavones + red clover cuomestrol, not PM though. Technically phyto's are antiestrogenic in the short term though.
For 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors the only well proven one is red reishi mushrooms, maybe peonies, fennugreek, and a couple others. Red Reishi contains ganoderic acids which are sterols and are scientifically well proven to inhibit 5a-reductase. Saw Palmetto doesn't have a lot of proof for inhibiting DHT synthesis. It's been shown to be largely placebo and there's no real sterols in the plant that would actually do it.
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