The fact that anyone can remain a right winger past the age of 20 is beyond me. Can they really not understand that capitalism doesn't work? How can anyone really feel like they have morals when they support greed and selfishness.
Name one reason why socialism doesn't work
Pro tip: You can't
>>709205135
The Neo Nazi Alternative right of 4chan will refuse to comment on this. but fear not comrade. I'm right there with you
They'll never understand
>>709205308
I'm sure that they really can't name one thing wrong with socialism
>>709205408
What is so difficult about understanding that CEO's are middle men and can completely be cut out to allow a society where the workers control their own means of production and distribution of resources? is that such a bad thing?
>>709205556
"mergh uhhhh Socialism/Communism doesn't work der"
"okay explain"
"Stalin"
" That's all youve got?"
Lots of talk for a country that got their ass handed to them by a bunch of rice farmers in the 70's.
>>709205135
Most people on the good side of capitalism don't care about other people and want capitalism to keep going.
Most people on the bad side of capitalism are uneducated and vote right wing because they were told to do so and don't want to trust facts that oppose their opinion.
>inb4 socialism and communism doesn't work
IT's true that they don't work, but only because humans still have a primal want to be better than others. It's evolutionary and darwinistic. In a perfect world, everyone is free to do what they want and works for the collective good.
how's socialism going in Greece?
they have to keep getting bailed out by EU
>>709205663
Might as well get rid of politicians, state officials, police etc. while we're at it tbh. We can do just well without em
>>709206172
That's neoliberalism aka capitalism, and they're not getting bailed out, vast majority of the money goes to save german and french banks. Capitalism is a rotting corpse
Give everyone a million dollars and a large percentage will be broke in less than a year. Some people cannot responsibly handle the resources they have.
>>709206280
Except the complete opposite is true. Every experiment with basic income pretty much shows that people will invest the money into improving their lives. Seems you've swallowed one state lie too many
>>709205135
Unironic Marxist here.
>>709206172
You're kidding, right?
You can't really believe that greece is socialist
>>709206407
You're a fucking moron.
>>709205135
Nothing invented so far in this sector works 100% of the time but then again same could be said about your father so... What ever...
>>709205135
Gotta miss Laissez Faire capitalism
It's not like Stalin or Mao caused anyone to starve to death right?
>>709207379
You sound like someone that has never read any arguments against your own position on universal basic income
>>709206172
spending more than you earn is neither socialism nor capitalism, it's pure retardary
>>709205135
look at venezuela you fucking cunt
>>709207379
I can show you the studies if you want anon. Here's one: http://www.bignam.org/BIG_pilot.html
That is unless you're content with your ideological blindness
arent you commie berniefags supposed to be busy getting ready to vote for shillary or something?
>>709207838
No, that's how governments create money.
>>709208039
I'd never vote for that right wing warhawk
Government doesn't work period.
At least Capitalism plays into the natural greedy habits of the human, instead of acting like they don't exist the way socialism does.
Everyone sharing, chipping in equally and not getting greedy? Give me a fucking break, that shit didn't work on a country level, it doesn't work on a company level, it can't even stand up to small 30 person groups.
It fails.
>>709205135
I think socialism will come when automation fully takes over and the majority of the population are out of jobs.
Automation and AI is the direction the world is heading in. The days of labor are numbered.
>>709205308
Maybe because National Socialists aren't capitalist.
This poster is still shit though.
18 million die each year from poverty. Yes people are breeding too quickly. When you give Africans food they breed more. If you stop giving free stuff less suffering. The problem isn't agriculture it's that we can't transport it and protect it from being horded by the elite. Unless your solution is world fucking war for one government so that everyone can eat, people are going to fucking starve and there is little your slactivist ass can do about it without military action.
Maybe because someone has more than one home doesn't mean that you are entitled to one. You work for it. You're in debt because you choose to be. It was your CHOICE to go into debt. Choices have consequences.
Capitalism has worked better than everything else so far. Socialism/communism has been tried 100s of times now and it sucks shit every time. Just because no one has tried your special snowflake variation of post-marxism doesn't mean people haven't tried socialism.
>>709208389
Do you have more state myths to shout out or are you done?
>>709205135
your infographic works as long as we do not account for lazyness or stupidity. but if you do account for those i suspect that they will align very nicely with the numbers.
>>709205135
>capitalism doesn't work
>capitalism
is a word used to describe the dynamic of the default interaction
"doesn't work" is your attempt to encapsulate it into your construct where you can 1. replace it 2. with something you/others opine "works"
congrats
sic semper tyrannis
>>709207838
>pull money out of fake bank to put money towards growing economy
>economy grows
>continue this trend because pulling fake money doesn't mean anything
>economic growth does mean something
>can be seen in the overall improvements of the way the middle class lives
>>709208458
I hope so, but right now it looks more like we're heading towards a dystopian society of gross inequality rather than a fully automated utopia of leisure and play.
>>709205135
>Name one reason why socialism doesn't work
Because there ain't no such thing as a free lunch
>>709207794
>>709208019
I know people. They waste money. Most people don't invest, don't spend wisely, etc.
You believe in something that just isn't true. The study, for instance, shows nothing about "investing to improve their lives".
It's fucking Namibia, ffs. What the fuck does that have to do with Capitalism in predominantly white, Western countries?
>>709208389
>Spotted the ancap faggot
>>709208491
>state myths
lol your narrative is 1000x shittier
>>709205135
lol ok
>>709208491
You have zero, liiiiterally zero examples of a fully functioning, prosperous socialist country.
So, if you can come up with one then maybe these state myths aren't so mythical but until then you're wrong.
>>709208481
>When you give Africans food they breed more
Just in case, Africa is a pretty wide continent with many, many different cultures, populations and wealth gaps.
>>709208794
>spotted
your failed narrative
so many ITT
Sick and tired of minorities trying to convince me that I should work harder, and pay more in taxes to make their lives better.
How about THEY fucking work harder, to make their lives better?
Fuck you OP, and fuck anyone who sympathizes with your bullshit.
>>709205135
Survival of the fittest. You can't adapt and find new ways to survive and live? Too bad
>>709205135
>Name one reason why socialism doesn't work.
Because we need a reason to work hard to get more money that you dream of, not just to be given it with little work.
>>709208842
The best thing about that data is ALL of the reductions in poverty came from government policies that moved towards capitalism.
>>709208845
Norvege ? Sweden ? Even France could apply with their free healthcare, free college and high welfare.
Socialism != communism
ITT hip bernie bros and pinko edgelords
stop making excuses and get a job or go get rich however the fuck you want pussies
(-.-) Someone is always watching, either right winged or not but we are all fucked in one big circle jerk in the end.
>>709209083
Same thing with that stupid Namibian study the other listed.
> you should invest in people so they can be more capitalist.. it works, they're more capitalist! oh, and capitalism is bad!
Fucking morons.
>>709208765
You can't just dismiss a scientific study on the basis of "I know people who'd possibly respond otherwise to the experiment". There's a lot more to read if you're interested, here's a study in Canada: http://public.econ.duke.edu/~erw/197/forget-cea%20%282%29.pdf
Basic premise of basic income:
http://gawker.com/a-universal-basic-income-is-the-utopia-we-deserve-1771011574
>>709208988
If you're middle class, do you realize you're part of the people that would be better off with more socialism ?
>>709208909
Don't try to reason with "an"caps
>>709205135
Socialism doesn't work largely due to scope, like all failed models of government. Mutualism, sure. I'll buy mutualism. Just avoid trying to fit a utopian procrustean model without creating a plutocracy run by greedy assholes.
As the Russians say, Capitalism is man against man. Socialism is the exact opposite.
>>709207794
You sound like someone who only wishes to hear the positives published by left leaning circles on universal basic income.
>>709206270
>it's not communism it its failing!!!
Kill yourself.
Socialism is for lazy educated fucktards who love to listen to themselves wax poetic about society ... and do as little work/thought to get the things they need ... and in the end will get neither.... thanks to their socialst overlords who do the same except with the sheeps consent to tell them what they are allowed.
>>709205135
>>709205135
Go to /pol/ CTR shill
>>709209124
Except all those countries are currently in a state of slow collapse and will continue if nothing is done to change it.
>>709209611
Check'em bitches
>>709209484
The IMF pretty much murdered the Greek economy with austerity, there is literally no denying capitalism is failing there. Short recap of how they fucked up:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/
All of you are faggots.
Everyone knows that the future will be an anarchic dictatorship, where everyone is its own dictator.
>>709205135
I spy with my little eye, a fucking poorfag.
Capitalism has worked for me just fine.
Not my fault you're a fucking Neer'do'well
>>709209396
You're free to start a commune in Ancapistan, you dirty Leftarchist. 99% of "anarchists" would say the inverse, capitalist communities in an ancom world, is not allowed.
>>709208669
What happens when we can no longer buy in to fund executive paychecks? What happens when the profits run out? We're either headed for a crash from hyperieffincency caused by automation or a guaranteed basic income for all.
If we go with the latter be prepared for an international shitstorm when our borders effectively close.
>>709205920
How about 200 countries running all manner of economic "experiments" for the past few hundred years, showing a strong correlation between economic freedom and the wealth of the average person?
Communism and socialism **only** work in your mind -- tested against actual reality they
oh, sorry, this is a troll thread. n/m
>>709205135
socialism doesn't work because people don't work. huurr duurr how about you go get a job you lazy fuck that probably droped out of college
>>709208389
This. Seemingly no matter where I've worked, 90% of people have the attitude that they needn't work hard since ultimately someone will get the work done for them. Trying to implement a system on a country sized scale that relies on people being decent instead of scum is a pipe-dream at best.
>>709205135
I really don't care about poor people. Better they should suffer than me or my family. So no, capitalism works you stupid hippie, it just doesn't work for third world idiots and lazy niggers.
>>709209845
I love it when capitalists really struggle to form an argument so they need to start throwing insults at the people they disagree with.
>>709209611
Sounds like you're a bitter 40yo in a shitty job and don't want to realize that socialism would better your life because it hurts your ideas.
>>709209861
True, we'd probably shoot you. Fascist faggot
>>709210243
Name one successful communist country or KYS.
>>709209775
>France
>in a state of slow collapse
Deficits are reduced, healthcare deficit is almost completely over, PIB and buying power increasing, overall education increasing, people living below the poverty line decreasing...
France is at the best it could hope to be right now tbh.
tfw the vast majority of Bernie bros aren't old enough to vote so these commie circle jerk threads really don't matter in the long run because by the time these kiddos hit 18 they won't even believe in this garbage any more
>>709209896
I wouldn't doubt the stupidity of the ruling class, a crash seems prefferable to them than a working class victory in the form of basic income
>>709205663
>people voluntarily pay high salaries to their CEOs
>"we can totally do it without them"
says the guy who lives in his mothers basement
>>709205556
I'm totally okay with breaking up California and all, but good luck trying to take my firearms.
>>709210704
>people voluntarily pay high salaries to their CEOs
Is this something you actually believe? Do those lower on the hierarchy determine the wages of those higher or is it perhaps the reverse? Anon have you ever worked in your entire life?
>>709210243
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Speaking of which, i'm off to my superking.
Enjoy the futon peasant.
>>709205135
Your understanding of left and right are... well, Amerikan. That is to say, completely fucked. I'm a mutualist anarchist, and I can promise you I'm just as hostile to capitalism as any Stalinist -- yet mutualism is generally regarded as being slightly right of centre. There are many individualists, like Lysander Spooner, who were as right-wing as they come, but who also despised capitalism.
Capitalism is evil not because it encourages trade, but because it *doesn't*. In fact, capitalism was created for the explicit purpose and function of aggregating wealth into the hands of a small owning class in order to facilitate the building of large capital projects such as factories, dams, and highways. By nature capitalism is monopolist and actually discourages trade.
I'm a well-known community organizer, and I've spent 25 years organizing with reds, leftists, and campus radicals -- and as far as I'm concerned, they are the surest reason why socialism doesn't work. When you need someone to wave a flag or sign a fiery manifesto, they're always first in line. The second there's boring, exhausting, unglamorous, but totally necessary scut-work which needs doing, they vanish. If I'm doing most of the work, I want to reap the benefits of my labour, and I want to choose whom I do and don't care to share it with.
>>709205135
You assume we share the same morality. You sound like some utilitarian faggot.
>>709205135
>>709205920
If the state provides all of the services, what is to stop the state from controlling your life ( like it has in all examples of socialist countries). Another problem is the fact that these movements ALWAYS end in failure, Mostly because the economy cannot sustain itself. This happens because, when people think that they can take money,food,resources from the state, while working state jobs( which they wont be fired from-because it would reflect badly on the state), they get lazy and greedy. Wide spread corruption is thus created, where there are positions that serve no purpose- Jobs where people literally come to work and do nothing. NOTING, AND STILL GET PAID FOR IT BY THE STATE. These are just some of the problems of cancerism.In a perfect world, MAYBE it could work, but in the one we have now, it doesn't and can't work. I am now living in a state that was previously socialist, and all of the problems that I have described are legit.
>>709208842
This.
RIP thread, OP is a socialist cuck
>>709210963
Syndicalist here, can you give me a quick recap of market anarchism? I've read a bunch of C4SS but it makes zero sense to me
>>709208765
Most of my classmates are complaining about how the social assistance funding here in Ontario isn't leaving them with enough money to pay their rent after paying their semester, yet they are still content to go out each break and pay $2 for a coffee. 2* 3 per day* 5 days a week = $30 per week in coffee from Tim's. A little over $120 per month. Plus most of them get take out each day as well which when compared to a PB&J sandwich and some sliced veggies from home is an exorbitant amount.
Point I'm trying to make here is that people in desperate need of money, people who are on social assistance, are very likely to make poor decisions when it comes to money. And in a lot of cases these decisions are 100% avoidable with many cheaper alternative readily available.
Capitalism works because it allows people to create their own wealth. Socialism doesnt work because it restricts people's freedoms and rewards sloth. History has proven time and time again that Socialism doesnt work... And before you scream Sweden, while Sweden has very socialist social system, economically they are very Capitalist. Am I saying Capitalism is perfect? No. Am I saying that it is the most incredible driving force in the world? Precisely. Name a Capitalist country that has failed on the same level that most Socialist countries do and I might reconsider
>>709205663
They can't be cut out, because they own the things they own.
>Well, we could just take what they own by force.
You could also buy it? If you really think the workers would do just as good a job, why not convince all the workers to take out loans, pool the money, buy the company, and then pay off the loans with your profit?
>But then every worker would be risking bankrupcy if the company doesn't succeed!
Yes, which is exactly what the owner risks. His risk, his reward. You want a share of his rewards, but not a share of his risk, and that's what reveals you to be just a thug in disguise.
>>709209999
Have you heard of France, Canada or England, friend?
>>709210963
You brain dead imbecile. Capitalism allows people that work hard and are smart to succeed, while still giving a chance for the stupid and lazy to make money.
You sound like a fool who is too full of himself to understand basic economics let alone a system as complex as capitalism.
>>709205135
Blah blah blah blah fuck your political posts, faggot
>>709210244
Lmao kid. You got the age pretty close.... but nice 4 bedroom house...paid for, 4 Bmw.. paid for, 1 shitty truck ... ofc paid and a nice R1... paid for, 100k liquid cash on hand, 200k invested, 401k from previous employment, very sizeable, and work because I choose to. Go spin some more poems to mummy, maybe she let you suck a teet for your "exciting and new" thoughts.
>>709211220
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/08/exposing-great-poverty-reductio-201481211590729809.html
/your shit argument. IMF (aka the obscenely rich dudes who run the world) made up that poll and fixed with the numbers to match their narrative that they're the good guys.
>>709205135
did you just steal an argument against socialism and swap it out for capitalism?
real men don't fall for such reckless faggotry
>>709209896
People have been saying that for centuries and have always been wrong. What your asking for is to kneecap the economy with an enormous welfare program nearly as large as the current entire federal budget because something bad might happen, even though history says it won't. Even if we abolished Social Security and Medicare completely it would still increase the deficit.
>>709210418
>have similar economic views to fascists
>enforce those views at gunpoint (like a state)
>but it's totally not a state
And somehow I'm the fascist?
>>709205663
Do you honestly think CEOs don't do anything? What about the rest of the executives? CFO? COO? CIO? CISO?
>>709205135
> one reason
How many times does it have to fail for you community college dropouts to figure it out?
>>709211458
Checked ... quality quads.
>>709207838
Which is socialism.
>>709205135
>Posting failed propaganda
>Failing to understand that the majority of the starving in the world comes from either doctoral states or social inequality, not an economic system
>Failing to understand that today's debts are tomorrow's profits
>Not taking out the houses that are vacant in dying neighborhoods and developments
Capitalism works just fine until you try to impose Socialist policies over it. When you do things go wrong, and then idiot 20 somethings come out of the woodwork to tell you that the only cure for the patient is more poison.
>>709211595
Kill yourself you socialist cuck
>>709211249
The most critical thing to understand is mutualism draws a sharp division between possession and ownership. You can possess things, but you can't *own* them. So, for example, if you build a house and occupy that house, it is your possession. It is NOT your property. So long as you live in the house, it belongs to you. It doesn't belong to the State, it doesn't belong to the People. The second you move out of that house, it is no longer yours, and anyone can claim it. You can't charge rents. You can't sell it.
Mutualism generally requires the existence of a community-run bank, since it would be the only way to aggregate sufficient wealth to create a large capital project which benefits the entire community. Labour credits are banked, with one hour of labour being valuated the same whether it's an hour of brain surgery or mucking out toilets. The bank can then loan out these labour credits interest-free in order to permit the creation of projects from which everyone will benefit.
>>709205135
I was going to respond to this b8, but why bother.
4chan is not the proper forum for political dialougue
>>709211422
Why buy when you can steal? The capitalist already kinda stole the factory through building it with profits derived from surplus value from the worker's labor
>>709211588
2 times, one thread. Taxmaster must be on my side.
>>709211786
I guess I won the argument anon, thank you!
>>709205135
The US isn't a capitalist society. It is a corporatist mixed economy.
Yeah how's that going for Venezuela? Apparently those CIA niggers broke into a zoo just to eat the animals
>Abloo abloo bur that's not REAL socialism
Just a few years ago you niggers were claiming they had pulled the "socialist miracle". I swear to fucking god, the beliefs of you damn socialists flip flops more than a fish on a boat deck, all just to save some face, huh? How do you expect us to take you seriously when you can't even stand for your own cause.
I heard that Venezuela is a socialist society, how's it working for them ?
OP is a decent human being who cares that his community lives in harmony with one another.
>>709212225
Venezuela has no resources, stupid.
>>709212225
It was working fine until the CIA assassinated its leader and destabilized its economy, like it does to every nation which dares to refuse to open its bunghole to Amerifat corporate tyranny.
>>709205135
learn how to America, loer
>>709211846
Thanks. Still trying to wrap my head around the school of thought since its a whole different way of thinking for me, but you've made it a bit clearer. Would community decisions regarding projects and capital be decided horizontally or through hierarchy?
>>709212225
>be most oil rich country in world
>subsidize oil to the point that it is worthless within the country
>don't export it to countries that need it
feel the bern guise
>>709209267
..did...did you just post gawker. this guys a troll...right...?
>>709211861
>The capitalist already kinda stole the factory through building it with profits derived from surplus value from the worker's labor
If you're implying that it's stealing to pay a worker less than the value he adds to the products he makes from raw materials, you seem to misunderstand how trade works.
The worker knows, or should know, that he is being paid less than the value he creates. He agreed to this because he cannot eat his labor, or drive it, or live in it. But by trading his labor for money, at a loss, he can buy food, a car, a home. It is a trade he is willing to make. His employer has money, but money can't turn materials into products. He trades money for labor, then products for money. Everyone trades willingly, because they value what they get more than what they give. No one is stealing.
I blame natural selection.
The last 5,000 years of human history has been an environment in which having moral integrity, to the point where you're willing to take a stand against the evils of your own society, was EXTREMELY maladaptive. The people who are most likely to shut up and do what they're told were the ones most likely to survive.
Now, today, much of the world is run by the lower class that used to get treated like shit... except, all you have to do is treat them like shit anyway, treat them like they don't and shouldn't be in charge, and they'll just crumple. They'll say whatever you're saying, they'll hate whoever you tell them to hate, all you have to do is swagger in like an asshole and they'll assume you have a right to.
That's how authoritarianism works.
The fact that anyone can remain a liberal after looking out their fucking window is even more surprising
>>709212545
It's an interview that summerizes one thinker's view on basic income, and covers some of the issues we were talking about. I wouldn't care if it was The Economist
>>709212411
OR when the price of oil dropped, which is the only thing their shitshow country produces. But your bullshit sounds swell.
>>709212615
Welp, can't beat that ironclad logic right there
>>709212398
dummy, see>>709212537
They could be incredibly rich from oil but the government took control of their resources "for the greater good" and completely fucked the country. Chile has the complete opposite style of governing and economics and is the 3rd best economy in the Americas.
>>709212398
It has some of the biggest oil reserves in the world.
>>709205135
Capital doesn't work for poor/dumb people (highly correlated in capitalistic system).
I have two houses, I'll burn them both down and become temporarily homeless instead of letting hobo live in one. You can't help poor people with money, it's like a black hole. Waste of money and resources. I know this, I have relatives with gambling and addiction problems, money don't help nada.
>>709212547
>It is a trade he is willing to make.
Except all this was done under a threat of violence(you'll get beat by police if you don't work and try to get by otherwise), under conditions created through violence(land grabbing and proletarisation of the peasantry). There's absolutely nothing voluntary or trade going on here, just theft and sheer force masquerading as such.
>Democracy
No thanks.
>>709212467
It's actually similar to anarchosyndicalism in that regard. Parecon works through the creation of economic councils which parallel unions in the decision-making process. So people with similar needs and requirements band together to make sure their interests are protected. On a practical level, it's monstrously ineffecient to practice direct democracy over every decision, so you join groups which share your interests, where you can be relatively sure they can represent you because they have the same needs.
Insurrectionists and Bakuninists are usually quite hostile to mutualism because of the absence of direct democracy, but unless you're prepared to live in a small agrarian village where no one has any unique skills (which can be used to hold the community hostage by threatening to withold those skills), then at some point you're going to have to trust someone else to represent you in some kind of council.
>>709208481
>You're in debt because you choose to be. It was your CHOICE to go into debt.
>>709211458
Yes I have. I'm Canadian myself in fact. I think I know all too well that if we were to try and implement a true socialist ideal into our country that it'd fail. Also, as any social worker ever who isn't a deluded pot smoker on the side can tell you, people are horrible, horrible creatures. As much as you would like to think that the lower class are just a band of unfortunates who have been dealt a crummy hand in life, for the most part people are where they are through their own choices, not because of a system working to keep them down.
Don't let Justin Trudeau's pretty aesthetic fool you either. He may be flying the grit's colours, but he is not different than the tories before him. The only real difference is in how the media reports on cases involving gross spending of public funds. As in there is almost no coverage whatsoever and when there is it is swept under the rug because, hey, he has a nice smile.
>>709205135
you don't own people or their creations, why do you think you do?
the greed and selfishness is when things are redistributed. if a person cannot feed themselves in a free society mustn't we assume they don't feel hunger? it just drags every1 down. You're going to want to give me the argument well they should sacrifice themselves for the weaker one. but you're going to shut your disability trap now and an hero. got it bitch?
>>709208842
DELET THIS
>>709212801
No you are the idiot. If this happens 100% of the time in countries that are not Capitalistic because US was Oil rich country and it didn't happen here (technically still are extremly rich in Oil, it's just cheaper to buy it from 3rd world shitter), then those countries are not fucked because of corrupt politics, they are fucked because they are not capitalistic.
>>709211706
You can't compare ai and automation to the industrial revolution. Machines are on the cusp of becoming damn near as capable at problem solving and dexterous as humans. Have you not been keeping up with AI, machine learning, and neural networks?
Taxi and Uber drivers are soon to be done. Even factories in China are laying off workers in favor of robots. Call centers will be replaced by bots.
In the near future all that's going to be left are executive and creative positions.
>>709212547
Why does his employer have money? Did his employer work double shifts all through his youth to save up for it and put society into his debt? No. He inherited the money from his parents.
You imply the existence of a system of consensual and mutually beneficial trade. In such a system, the administrators are simply performing a service for money, the same way that the laborers are. Everyone's profit is proportionate to their contribution (and to the overall profit of the enterprise). You wouldn't have a majority of workers living in squalor and a powerful minority whose primary concern is keeping it that way.
In reality, such systems are an extremely modern contrivance, and are still extremely rare. Most ventures rely on various forms of slavery to empower the venture's owner so that he can stay in power.
>>709213156
I think it is the poster explaining how people are spend happy even when they are on a tight budget. Kinda like how you'll hear people complaining that they can't afford groceries while they are waiting to get their hair coloured for a meager $150.
Let me put this in a way you communist children will understand
There are two kids, Bobby and John. Bobby gets a 90 on his test and Bobby gets a 60. The teacher evenly distributes the scores to be fair, so instead now they both have a 75. Bobby think, "why should I work hard if I'm getting fucked?" so on the next quiz he doesn't study as hard and gets an 80. John thought, "I don't have to work as hard, the other grades will pull me up!" so he doesn't study as hard and gets a 40. The teacher distributes the scores again and now they both get a 60. Communism doesn't stop the poor from suffering, it just makes everyone else suffer just as much.
>>709213470
People dont build rafts out of garbage to escape from capitalism to socialism
Fun fact: if England was socialist, the industrial revolution would have never happened.
It's the greed of the people which directly benefits society making everyone harder working and more competitive which in turn improves many areas of science, technology, medicine, etc. which no other form of government has been able to do so well.
>>709205556
I notice that you don't intend to give any of that land back to the natives...
>>709213718
> the only alternative to capitalism is communism
> every culture on Earth for the last 200,000 years of human existence less the last 150 years must therefore have been communist
Kill yourself.
>>709213235
This nigga on drugs. Help me coax him into posting more.
What is the "free society" that you're talking about? Where and when was there a free society?
>>709213809
although I agree with u, ur still a retard, retard
>>709213152
Isn't there a chance this will just lead to tribalism, with people just banding together with people they feel comfortable with and being hostile to outside groups? It's why I sympathize with syndicalism (although the foundation for such a project is pretty much dead at this point), it gathered all of working society under one story, making people who would've otherwise hated each other into comrades.
>>709213152
>Insurrectionists and Bakuninists are usually quite hostile to mutualism because of the absence of direct democracy
Really? I've read insurrectionary communism as opposition to democracy, instead favouring temporary affinity groups and spontaneity
>>709211706
Why on earth would you wanna reduce the deficit during a recession though?
>>709206014
I wanna sell my sculptures. Guess what i need to clear that with the government. Doran seen like capitalism to me. Regulation is needed you say? My homemade burgers would get a restaurant shut down for unsanitary methods. Your kitchen is dirtier than the pizza place that closed and yet the slopshit they serve at McDonald's is quality beef to the fda. My sculpture contains banned natural materials but all that lead filled Chinese crapbis just fine.
>>709214036
you don't agree the united states is BASICALLY free, that there have ALWAYS been war and suffering but NEVER a FULLY free society?
>>709214438
make a thread of your sculptures and post here
>>709214036
besides, you fucking doof, you missed my point, you better kill yourself right now.
My dad died from terminal poverty after he caught it from a homeless guy, please don't joke about it, his pain was immesurable.
>>709214027
Try using tribal politics like nationalistic villages in the cities of millions
you nigger
it doesnt work
humans arent meant to know more than 150 close friends & family in a tribe
What do you suggest?
Killing billions of people?
good idea
>>709212411
That's fucking cute. Blame your little conspiracies on whoever you want.
>>709214675
I caught u from u bitch, the pain was immeasurable
/thread
>>709208988
Wow, I can clearly tell from your broad generalizations that you know a lot about complex economic systems. Get out of this thread, it's clearly above your head.
>>709205135
I know one thing and that is this. In a capitalist society, if I work hard, I will be rewarded. If I work harder than my counterpart, I will be rewarded more greatly. And this is the right way to do things. It encourages innovation, it keeps people competitive. Competition boosts quality and value of goods/services. It makes people want to try hard and try new things. To take that aspect away is to stifle progress. Nobody wants to try harder when they know their lazier counterparts are receiving the same reward. Socialism doesn't work because a person that worked their ass off doesn't want to pay for healthcare and education for a person that has no will to earn those things for themselves. And that's exactly what socialism is. Punishing the earners and rewarding the lazy.
>inb4 wageslave making someone else rich
You're god damn right faggot. That guy had an idea and took a risk that allows for me to provide for, insure, and protect my family and have everything I could ever want or need. And I earned my position in his company through hard work and determination. That's the American dream. If we were a socialist society I would be just as lazy and useless as everyone else. Because hard work is hard. But if I want things as it stands now I have to make money. And the harder I work the more money I make and that amount grows exponentially over time the harder I work because I will be rewarded for my hard work with promotions and raises.
Sorry bro. You're gonna have to pay your student loans.
>>709214188
Sure, there will be conflict and competition. It's a feature, not a bug. Have you read anything about Lysander Spooner? He nearly drove the US postal service out of business. In fact, Spooner is the reason the US passed laws guaranteeing the USPS a monopoly in enough areas that they were guaranteed a profit. There's nothing wrong with trade and competition as long as everyone has access to the means of production. And by eliminating the concept of property, it makes it impossible for any individual to monopolize the means of production. Even if someone tried, the existence of a community-run central bank means people could always get an interest-free loan to create their own means, rendering your toll bridge or factory or whatever worthless.
Honestly, I don't think competition and conflict needs to devolve into tribalism. And I have no objection to *voluntary* socialism. I always take on more than my share of the load and foot more than my share of the bill for any project, but I do it of my own free will. If anyone tried to tell me I *had* to contribute -- and some have done just that -- they'll get sweet fuck-all from me.
>insurrectionists
As a syndalist, insurrections hate you too. The insurrectionists I've met regard a hockey riot as the highest expression of liberty. The idea is that everyone gets their "say" through participation, and since nothing is planned and everything occurs spontaneously, there's no opportunity for a vanguard to appear. The second you sit down at the table with a boss or a politician, you're a class traitor as far as the insurrectionists are concerned.
>>709213809
If England had been socialist then the economy would have exploded BEFORE the industrial revolution instead of after.
Also, remember that period after the initial economic boom, where all the rural economies dried up and died and everyone had to move to the city to work 16 hours a day and live in their own shit? That wouldn't have happened in a socialist country.
But then, the economic disparity and decay of the guilded age is what lead to the progressive era and the war on poverty. Granted, poor Americans aren't as wealthy or powerful as we were 40 years ago (the progressive era is over), but we're still a lot better off than the peasants of any other era.
>18 million die each year in non capitalist countries due to lack of food
>this is capitalism's fault
ok
>>709213074
Excuse me? No threat of violence, there's a promise of welfare and a helping hand.
hard work's not hard; you're just a bigot
>>709214027
But think about. You start up a business. It starts off small, takes years to get anywhere, and only through your own perseverance does it take off and become successful. Suddenly you find yourself making $200,000 a year. This is money earned, something that you can be rightfully proud of. Thanks to this business of yours, you have been able to employ a couple dozens locals and pay them all fair wages, replete with benefits, bonuses, retirement plans, and disability insurance.
But you live in a country that practices socialism. They've deemed the necessary income level for a comfortable living to be around $50,000. As such, you're taxed until you are left with less than a 6 figure income. Your money will go towards raising the poverty line and you should be proud of this fact.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm not enough of a bleeding heart to think that someone who is already spreading the wealth by having in his employ a few dozen workers all making a comfortable wage should be taxed anymore than some sap making minimum wage. In this example, which does exist in reality, you have someone who has earned their place in the upper class. But because we have this idea that we need to prop up others for some reason it is okay to strip him of this?
If I was ever in this position, I would make it a point to earn less simply to be in a lower tax bracket. Even if it meant weakening my business and being forced to lay off some employees, I would do so.
>>709205135
I bet you think that the US is capitalist don't you, you retard.
>>709208988
>Sick and tired of minorities trying to convince me that I should work harder, and pay more in taxes to make their lives better.
>How about THEY fucking work harder, to make their lives better?
FUCK yes. THIS THIS THIS THIS.
Fuck the Bilderbergs, fuck the Romneys, fuck the Trumps. They've never worked a day in their lives and I don't owe them shit. Throw them overboard and see if they can swim.
>>709205135
It's obviously clear that this capitalism, at least in america is power structure set up to benefit the wealthy elite. How can you rightwing/libertarian/ pro capitalistic cucks not fucking see that? The american dream is an ideology that's a fucking facade. It doesn't apply to 80 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION. in our current economic system we are slaves to the owners.
>>709213605
Wrong. Get out of the basement. If you have to work 2 jobs just to get by. YOU HAVE A SHIT JOB. Learn a skill, become an electrician, mechanic, welder, painter, carpenter these are all skills that can be learned in about a year and earn over 20 dollars an hour. Or go to college, if that is your route.
Not everyone who owns a company got it from their parents. My father started his own business with 500 dollars in his pocket. Stop making excuses and blaming everyone. If you want to change and make yourself great the key is in the room you are in now.
>>709214677
Actually that'd be a great solution. Enact Soylent Green. Population control at the same time as feeding people. And as the government wouldn't be dolling as much cash for health care and welfare/ pensions, you could probably maintain a socialist country without a huge spike in taxes.
>>709215661
You're a fucking moron. Being in a higher tax bracket only means you're taxed at that level FOR THE AMOUNT THAT'S ACTUALLY IN THAT BRACKET. So for the first $50,000, a billionaire pays the same tax as someone making $50,000. Seriously, I get so fucking tired of idiot Amerifats who have absolutely no idea how... well, how ANYTHING works warbling their Dunning-Kruger ignorance at the top of their fucking lungs.
Die in a fire.
>>709215441
>non capitlaist countries
I assume you're talking about Sweden and Finland and Denmark and shit? Yea, those uh, those "non-capitalist countries" aren't bad places to live.
>18 million die each year
Oh, you're talking about the countries that are owned and kept in poverty by foreign capitalists.
if you aren't in science or engineering you have no right to complain about money
>>709213788
This. /Thread
>>709205135
How's your first semester of college going?
>>709215963
>slaves
Yeah no. I have everything I want. My family is insured through my own means. I'm saving money and will be debt free before I'm 40(maybe even 35). I will retire comfortably and my kids will never want for anything. Capitalism is awesome. Most grown ups know this. I just wish I'd learned it sooner. I'd be doing even better. But I can't complain.
>>709215420
Do you have any reading tips or intros to how mutualism would transition/work out in more detail? Like Rocker's Anarcho-Syndicalism but for mutualism.
>As a syndalist, insurrections hate you too.
Ik, I actually like to read their theory, it's a bit crazy but good when I get bored with the practical reality of organising. Imo syndicalism needs some of the fighting spirit insurrectos bring to the table
>>709205135
18 million? Fucking slackers. A few years of administrative exile will fix you up.
>>709216055
Not to mention that all those trades are in high demand with the baby boomers retiring. An electrician is guaranteed to make bank since new homes being built have to have a licensed electrician work on them in order to pass inspection.
But let's all work two jobs at fast food chains to still not even come close to the income a trade can earn you.
>>709205135
Capitalism does worked and has worked, there is no other alternative which has worked for any substantial period of time.
>>709216055
If your dad was able to start a business then thank socialism. Thank the socialists of the 30s and 40s and 50s and 60s. The capitalists of the guilded age would NEVER allow a working-class man to get that far ahead.
Capitalism doesn't reward hard work. Capitalism rewards people who are born with money. If you want a healthy market economy full of opportunity and competition then you are NOT a capitalist.
>>709216155
Not talking about current taxation that exists in a capitalist society like here in the land of maple syrup. I'm talking about a what if scenario, so no need for swearing. Presently if I were to come into that scenario I'd be right comfortable with it as I am taxed a reasonable amount. But if people want to bridge the gap between upper and lower class then what I described originally would be the end result.
>>709216614
You're wrong, it was started in the mid 90s, I highly doubt some guys in the 30-50s had much effect on it.
I know you think you're being edgy with this born with money crap but just let it go. It's not true, and is only a crutch holding you back.
>>709213156
>this fuck thinks that posting that kind of reaction image is refuting widely that argument
>>709215661
This is what would really happen under capitalism:
>You start up a business. It starts off small, takes years to get anywhere, and only through your own perseverance does it take off and become successful until McDonalds sues you for violating their property rights. You go bankrupt and end up getting depression, since all social services got slashed there's no safety net and you end up on the street. You die of pneumonia three years later.
>>709216341
Okay, I don't know what your life story is, but picture the exact same thing happening except you have half as much money. How would that have worked for you?
That's what capitalists want.
Your life was successful because you live in a society where the lower class is (RELATIVELY, as far as human society goes) wealthy. Capitalists unilaterally oppose this. Capitalists want more money on the top and less money on the bottom. They don't want you to be debt-free and making money for your kids, that's just a missed opportunity, it means that the Trumps and the Bilderbergs haven't squeezed and scammed enough money out of you.
Thank yourself for hard work and good planning. But, you live in a society with social mobility, where hard work and good planning actually count for something. Thank a socialist for that.
>>709216433
I'd start with Proudhon's _What is Property?_ to get an idea of the difference between ownership and property, and then follow it up with _What Is Mutualism?_ by Swartz. I imagine you've probably already read them, but _Mutual Aid_ and _Conquest of Bread_ by Kropotkin are also excellent.
And I have to admit that I have a soft spot for Crimethinc-style insurrectionism. And there IS such a thing as thoughtful insurrectionism, like Malatesta. I once tried to sit in on an insurrectionist meeting at the Montreal Anarchist Book Fair (they refused to schedule the event, naturally, and just hijacked an empty room -- fight the power!), but after they finished talking about how much they'd love to stab a cop in the face during a riot they noticed my IWW pin and accused me of being a saboteur there to spy on their discussion. They're kind of cute in a puppy-piddling-on-your-shoes way.
>>709216614
Have you heard of Robert herjavec? Started with nothing. Is rich as fuck. Please tell me more about how only people with money were born with it. Lul.
>>709217352
Nice slippery slope fallacy
>>709205135
I like the cherry-picked data in this infograph
as long as technology and science as a whole advances, the future will shape society for us.
all will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future regardless of ideology.
>>709210243
sum the whole of answers including insults and you'll got a solid argument
>>709216341
Are you listening to yourself?
>Debt free before I'm 40
Wow, what a fucking privledge, then what you can spend the last 15% (if you're lucky) of your life relaxing enjoying the benefit from all the hard work you did in the first 85% of your life?
The middle class is shrinking and that's exactly how the one's in power want it. We are slowly become an enslaved police state (through surviellence/infinite distractions and the facade of our political system making us believe that we have a choice) I'm not even mad, I'm just disappointed that the large majority of us have let this happen.
I'm not advocating socialism or communism. I'm advocating for Anarchism. And no, It's not unrealistic it's just the system you're living in that has fooled you into believing that human beings are brutish and naturally evil and that you need a governmental structure to keep you safe.
>>709217352
What? Was the guy selling BagMacsTM? MickyDs can't sue a home grown burger joint unless they're specifically violating copyright law.
>>709209124
socialism != welfare state
>>709217352
That's right. Obviously, as not a single new company has formed since the 80s as everything is dead in the water thanks to capitalism. I'm definitely not working as an apprentice hairstylist for a woman who has run a successful business for the last 30 years, expanding several times over throughout.
It's definitely not possible in a capitalist society.
Fuck you they arent the same thing
>>709217723
>>709205135
It's working fine for hillary
>>709217416
>half as much money
This is literally what socialists want except it's usually a larger percentage of my income leaving my wallet for some do nothing lazy faggot so he can have an obamaphone or food stamps while he sells drugs to put 22s on his 85 Monte Carlo.
>>709217465
Obama
>>709205135
What do you mean it doesn't work?
It works for me, and that's all I care about.
>>709205135
I can't tell if this is bait or if you are legitimately retarded.
>>709217692
>tfw was a leftist until I took an Economics course and now im just a filthy liberal
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
>>709217723
I think you have me confused for one of these commie fags. I work for what's mine. I keep what I kill. I would fare well with anarchism. I just think it's stupid as shit.
>>709217441
Thanks mate, I'll look into them. I've only read Kropotkins Mutual Aid(which has been very influentual on my thinking)but the others are new
>I once tried to sit in on an insurrectionist meeting at the Montreal Anarchist Book Fair (they refused to schedule the event, naturally, and just hijacked an empty room -- fight the power!), but after they finished talking about how much they'd love to stab a cop in the face during a riot they noticed my IWW pin and accused me of being a saboteur there to spy on their discussion.
top kek
>>709217167
I'm sorry that you're so ignorant, but of course if you were less ignorant then you would not be a capitalist.
If your dad had been born 100 years earlier, as part of the working class, he wouldn't have stood a chance. He could have worked just as hard and been just as smart and still died poor because that was how society worked (and if he'd been born 200 or 500 years ago it would have been even worse).
What's the difference? Socialism. Socialism is the difference between 1890 and 1990. Socialism is the reason why even the poor in America live so comfortably and have such opportunity. American public policy for most of that century, by modern standards, was radically socialist. We granted tons of rights and concessions to workers, we regulated banks and cracked down on the scammers who usually prey on the poor, we taxed the wealthy 90% and didn't give a fuck.
What I'm saying is that if not for socialism your family would have grown up in a 5th story one-room flat with no windows that you shared with 3 other families. And you would have been working 12 hours a day by age 8. And none of you would have a snowball's chance in hell of dying with more money than you were born with.
>>709217723
Wait, are you saying that people only live to 50 if they are lucky? I'm pretty certain most people would claim to have 30 years of enjoyment if they were debt free at 40.
>>709218037
there has never been true communism because those in charge are always too corrupt.
we only see tyranny. always have.
>>709205135
Nobody cares OP.
until it happens to them lol
>>709217782
For every semi succesful hairstylist-small-business-owner there are three bums on the street yelling about that time they ran "Silly Mcdonalds"
oh boy,this thread again. the reason i support capitalism is because the idea we can all be equal is retarded. i would rather receive the fruits of my labor than pay for tyrones new rap album. i would rather have invention and entrepreneurship fueled by motivation of a better life than fueled by nothing. capitalism promotes gain by labor rather than security while doing nothing. i would rather half be happy while the other half be poor, than we all be poor. basically, i don't want to be equal at the bottom
>>709218305
Do you understand that people need to be rewarded for the things they do?
Do you understand that you're going completely against human nature?
The only way to change human nature is to do it by force.
>>709212008
List of US sectors which are subject to "temporary" nationalization, or receiving subsidies, stimulus, equalization, bailouts, or stimulus through government purchase of surplus output: All sectors.
Today's US economy has become more centrally-planned than ever before in the nation's history. In fact, there is probably more free-market capitalism in China than there exists in the US today.
>>709217943
This is a common misconception.
Socialists don't want to tax the working class. Capitalists want to tax the working class (and government taxation isn't their only means of draining your wealth but it is one of them). Socialists want to tax the wealthy.
In socialist countries you've probably heard that the tax rate is around 50%. That's because THE WORKING CLASS IS WEALTHY. A menial laborer in Sweden can suck up a 50% tax rate with a smile on his face and still live better than a middle-class American. There is no ruling class sucking them dry. They've won.
>>709205135
Capitalism is working bretty well for me
>>709218305
and thus, why communism fails, it is a fairy tale told by the lazy
>>709218281
Right, I realized how that sounded after I posted it. My point was that if you spend a majority of your life working for someone else, which the large majority of people do in this country you are technically a slave. The only difference is that instead of being forced to work by a whip, you're being forced to work through a power structure set up by the oppressors. Instead of the whip, it's the dollar bill.
>>709205135
Fuck the poor, let them starve.
The people I give a shit about live in the world standard of luxury, and I don't give the slightest fuck that I'm only "Middle Class" where I live, or that my lifestyle is built on the backs of the less fortunate. I won the genetic lottery to have wealthy white American parents, and that lottery only happens once for each of us.
Capitalism defends all of that, keeps my social order in place. I'd have no fucking self preservation instinct or spine if I called Capitalism anything short of the best god damn thing humankind has ever created.
>>709218667
>Hah they had to wait in line in Soviet union!
>Waits in line 20 mins at McDonalds cuz they're understaffed to cut costs
>>709205135
Capitalism doesn't work for the idiotic. It works out well for me. I had an alcholic dad and fast food worker mother, house hold income was less than 30k a year...
And here I am, 20+ houses at the age of 28, can choose to retire when-ever the hell I want. Enjoy complaining about a system you don't know anything about.
>>709218281
Guy he was talking to. I don't plan on dying at 50. I'll still be working until retirement age. My kids will be taken care of up to college graduation. I will be able to help them in adulthood. That's all I need. And I don't need the govt taking that ability away from me so someone like the guy with poor decision making skills that replied to me can have a free phone and not have to work for a living.
ITT: Poopjugging, basement-dwelling hikkis rant about the glories of capitalism and being self-sufficient while they wait for their mom to bring down their chicken tenders.
>>709218037
Looks like soviet communism to me. Which is just authoritarianism which pays lip service to communist ideals.
Don't worry, though, there ARE real communist countries, and they're all much freer than the capitalist countries, with much healthier economies. Perhaps you've heard of Finland? Or Norway? Or the Netherlands?
>>709218964
Mcdonalds is one of the fastest servers ever if not the fastest.
Are you really this retarded?
>>709219045
Chicken TENDIES, you fucking animal.
>>709206036
It's a pretty big ''but'' don't you think?
Why waste time on a system that will never work? It's like wasting money and time on research that will lead to humankind will be able to breath in space one day, when everyone knows that it's impossible.
Do you understand that what we have in the united states is not Capitalism right? About half of our GDP is public sector, we have huge wealth transfers annually and have risen a debt to support it. High taxation and unions have caused big business to go overseas. Also before anyone says military yes we could cut down on ours but wealth transfers in America( social security, welfare, ect) cost more than our military.
>>709210528
china.
north korea has been around for a few generations now and that's the worste commy coutnry...
thought admittedly corrupt capitalism is far better than corrupt communism.
>>709205920
I know this is bait but the rice farmers had modern (at the time) weapons from the Soviets to aid the Vietnamese civil war that lasted like a decade. The Ak47 had heavier rounds than the M4 allowing it to Pierce better through foliage and gorilla warfare.
>>709218725
So just because I make more means it's ok that I give more. Ok. That's totally not fucked up at all. And that laborer is smiling all the way to the bank at the people that actually have a skill who make roughly the same as he does because muh socialism.
>>709218828
You dumb fucks devalue the meaning of words like slavery when you say shit like that. Its obviously very fucking far from slavery. One has the right to GO WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE OR NOT WORK AT ALL...as well as the countless other rights that dlaves do not have, like spending your money how you like, marrying who you like, having children or not, not being raped, beaten or killed etc etc
>>709205135
Too late to do anything about it now OP.
The human population exploded exponentially before humans developed a stable planned political economy. Or a rational ethic. Like all large societies prior, the global society is thus stuck inching along in the culture it had at its peak growth. The only way you'll get a chance to change it is with a do-over. And the only way you'll get a do-over is through genetic engineering a sterilization virus to take the human population back down to a minimally viable size, then engineer better brains, then decide unanimously upon the ground rules to avoid repeating past mistakes, and banish anyone who breeds greater numbers, or has a mental defect. ...and then quietly send a couple sentries after them in the night to kill the exiled, lest they find each other, and breed a primitive barbaric population that'll come back and haunt you later.
That's quite literally what it will take for humanity to improve at this point.
>>709218667
whoa whoa down boy im not saying communism can be good. im saying its a breeding ground for corruption.
>>709216341
I'm 31, i've been debt free since 23. What the fuck are you doing?
>>709219099
United States is taxed more than those countries.
Argument invalid.
It doesn't matter if you think a basic income or democratic socialism will work. It doesn't matter even a little bit. Because it is inevitable. AI and robots will soon take over the vast majority of jobs. Governments will have a choice, let their nations sink into anarchy as millions starve, or pay them all enough to live comfortably and let them do whatever they want with their time. (including earning more money) This will happen, it will happen sooner than you think, and there isn't fuck-all you can do about it.
>>709218663
You aren't a capitalist. you're a marketist.
Capitalism destroys markets.
Socialist countries have stronger market economies than capitalist countries do.
Capitalist manufacture economic disasters, throw the common people in jail or onto the street, and bail out the scammers.
These disasters create ripples in socialist countries, but they recover much more quickly, because they throw the scammers in jail and bail out the common people.
>>709218037
This is funny because communism as an idea works perfectly but EVERY person put in charge went completely mad with power. Look up what stalin did, it was insane.
>>709205135
The Euro
and weed isn't a drug, it's a plant.
>>709219312
Successful? Do you want to fucking live in China?
Half the fucking webms in any rekt threads are fucking dumb-as-stump slat-eyes killing each other/themselves through that shitstain of a country's terrible infrastructure.
>>709219114
Not where I live. They recently got these computers screens customers can order food from(solely so they could compete with Burger King who implemented this first) and now nothing works and everything takes 3x the time it took before. Capitalism is stupid
>>709219396
It would be even if it were "true communism" because the lowest level workers would be getting paid more than people who do a harder jobs.
>>709218981
>me
>me
>me
well no shit, it was made for people like you.
>>709205135
the fact that anyone can be a left-winger past the age of 25 shows they have no understanding of economics and free will.
When capitalism fails it's due to government interference in the free market. What we have in the U.S. is known as crony capitalism.
society can only be changed by the advancement of science and technology.
science will form the future and drag every one kicking and screaming with it.
>>709219546
>This is funny because communism as an idea works perfectly
Your autism is showing.
You can't put down a stupid rule and tell everyone to run their businesses based on that stupid rule.
Life is more complicated than that.
>>709219405
Making poor decisions that I hold myself responsible for up until recently when I realized that smoking weed was for retards and I needed a stable job to provide for my now growing and successful family. I'm not perfect. You're a special case. And I'm very proud of you friend. I didn't realize the right path until after college. I own my mistakes and I'm handling them as fast as possible. I'm on the right path now.
>>709219784
>neoclassical babby
Is this a YLYL thread now?
>>709219663
You have an unrealistic idea of how safe our infrastructure is.
Shit your pants, son.
>>709214524
That was an example. I actually have no talent in anything but I would love to open up a store of some sort but the pointtt is you shouldn't need a business license to run a business.
>>709219915
Communism is surprisingly flexible, but people even those in charge assumed it was not and it turned into the shit show it becamse.
>>709219973
>I needed a stable job to provide for my now growing and successful family
There's your problem
>>709219316
>70s
>M4
shiggy diggy
>>709220084
Bruh, I live in Michigan, I know it's a shitshow.
But still, I'd rather have Detroit a two hour drive away than live on any other god damn continent but this one. Especially Asia.
>>709208039
Bernouts don't vote. I thought we all figured that out by now.
>>709219669
My McDonalds serves me in 10 seconds.
Are there other restaurants that server you faster than that?
If I go to any other restaurant my order takes anywhere from 10 - 30 minutes.
You're telling me your mcdonalds takes 30+ minutes to serve you food?
You have a choice not to go there you know?
Also those other restaurants are capitalist restaurants too unless your town has a food bank where you can get food from the goverment.
>>709220110
If communism is so flexible go to a communist country and live there and stop using 4chan.
>>709219530
>all claims
>no reasoning
capitalism is the same "marketism". and how does a system that support labor and striving to be better dystroy an economy? that's like saying eating healthy and exercising won't make you fit
>>709205135
>Name one reason why socialism doesn't work
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/walden/context.html
Read up you commie.
>>709220086
So get one? Jeez cry more. I'm not the guy you replied to but it's not like it's gonna put you in the poor house to have a viable idea and save money to achieve that goal. If you don't do it then you didn't want it bad enough to make it happen.
>>709220341
There's none left anymore
>>709219324
No, more skilled laborers still make significantly more. And the unskilled laborer, because he ISN'T drowning in debt and squalor, is much more free to pursue his (completely state funded) education and become a skilled laborer. That's part of why they have a healther economy; they have better workers.
The main point here is that you don't understand the tax which the Bilderbergs and the Donald Trumps are exacting on you. You hate the federal tax, because it's honest and up front, and because you get to vote on it, and because you get to vote on how it is spent. But you gladly accept a ruling class of sociopaths who own everything around you.
>>709205135
I would ask a socialist why it doesnt work but they all starved to death...
>>709220207
Nothing wrong with having a family. That's a "to each his own" argument. I wouldn't trade what I've got now for anything.
>>709220207
Dear America: Those who think that working hard to provide for your family is a problem, is your problem.
>>709220447
yes there are nigger
>>709205135
VENEZUELA
>>709220630
Does NK even count as communist? I thought it was a totalitarian dictatorship
>>709220249
It takes 20 minutes due to their new computer screens, my pal who worked shifts there told me about why they were installed and how they fucked everything up. Point is capitalism is as stupid as soviet socialism and neither really works really well making you wait in line
>>709220447
I wonder why that is?
>>709220776
Their economy is communist.
go live there
You are part of the richest, healthiest, most educated and humane society to ever exist... all because of the free capitalist market. Your argument is null and void.
P.s. because of the great productivity as a capitalist society, even the sick and poor are able to get basic human needs provided for them due to the excess of our production and success
>>709206180
Fucking libertarian idiots
>>709219361
Clearly, you do not see my point.
Just because we have the freedoms THAT ARE BASIC HUMAN FUCKING RIGHTS doesn't mean we are "free" It is a human right for me to marry who I want, it is a human right for me to choose to have children, it is a human right for me to not be raped, beaten or killed on any given day. Is that really so hard for you to understand? Are you so much of a fucking cuck that you thank the political and economic system that oppresses you and every other wage slave in this nation? Pathetic.
>>709220615
I believe in working hard for myself. I work in sales and I feel sorry for everyone I see with kids.
Even the old simpsons episode "Marge vs. Singles, Seniors, Childless Couples and Teens and Gays" pretty much confirmed my feelings on the subject.
>>709219460
Yes, we're taxed more, and most of our tax money goes into the pockets of the wealthy. Private insurance cartels. Private prisons. A military which oil companies borrow at will while leaving taxpayers with the bill. A military-industrial complex which is a gaping wound in our economy
I'm pretty sure that strengthens my argument bro. Being capitalist doesn't even mean we have lower taxes, it means our taxes go to the wealthy.
(fyi, the tax RATE in socialist countries is higher, the reason we're taxed more is because we HAVE more, the U.S. is the richest country in the world. But the average citizen in some tiny socialist country with no resources is richer than the average American. Muh capitalism. )
>>709206407
"Every experiment" source? And what group are they studying?
>>709220801
If the computers are slower then they would get less customers.
Not capitalism at all making it slower.
actually anti capitalism
>>709220776
Economic structures are separate from leadership structures.
It's authoritarian communism, basically.
>>709221164
exactly. United States is more communist.
>>709220938
Then why do they get ultra high end products like caviar, alcohol, super cars, champagne, current generation computers. None of which goes to the people.
>>709220499
I don't hate federal tax. I enjoy roads and police and public safety. I enjoy my federal grant money funded education. I enjoy federal tax breaks for my corporation that employs me and pays me quite well. What I don't enjoy is when the federal govt tries to inject unecessary socialism into my healthcare and doubles my premiums. I don't appreciate seeing a dope dealer on food stamps to the tune of $500/mo of my and the rest of societies dollars driving around in a new escalade with 24 in rims. We've lost all personal responsibility and it's the false socialist ideals pandering to the gibmedats that's costing us the most. I'm not retarded. I know we need certain aspects of socialism to make this work(police fire roads). But I shouldn't be held accountable every time a crack head ODs or every time a straight C high schooler wants a financial aid check so he enrolled in college for a semester only to drop out because his mixtape is fire af yo
>>709207267
Denmark is socialist, which is SO great because
1. Even the rich can barely afford a car that is 10 years old
2. People dont own dryers for their clothing because it is too expensive to run them
3. It is often cheaper to buy things in the US and mail them to Denmark than buy it there
Just a few examples
Ever see the children of right winger families? Their heads are so full of bullshit their parents say and they're unable to discern anything for themselves.
It's sad, really.
>>709220801
That's probably because your pal is as dumb as you are. McD takes 2 minutes to fill my order every fucking time, fries are hot, drinks are cold, and the food tastes reasonably good for the low price.
>>709219309
Well, the point of having a well developed social security is to make sure people who don't have the ability to support themselves (people with certain handicaps, psychological problems etc) can live a proper life and the people who for various reasons are unable to make a living for a shorter time (unemployed, students etc). It can be benificial to have a social support system in place for certan groups of people. The problem is when people are taking advantage of the these systems.
Military costs is, if you think about it, an unnecessary costs. Even though I admit it creates jobs for a lot of people.
>>709207794
"Universal basic income" if you dont do anything to get a base income, than your money isnt worth anything
Money is exchanged for goods and labor and it's value is given from the desire for goods and labor
If you have no labor but money, the money is worthless
Myth Number One. Free enterprise hurts the poor.
Since 1970, the percentage of the world's population living on the equivalent of less than a dollar a day has fallen by more than 80 percent.
This was not the result of foreign aid or U.N. development projects. It was the spread of free enterprise that achieved this miracle. In China alone, free trade and foreign investment -- investment, not aid -- lifted 400 million Chinese out of abject poverty in just the 20 years between 1981 and 2001.
There has never been a force for helping the poor that has come close to free enterprise.
>>709221104
Family guy you initially replied to. I can understand that. That's just not me. I enjoy my family to no end. My kid was even planned. Like I said. Bad choices I made are being owned. But thankfully I didn't knock up anyone in high school and had the brains about me to save that kinda shit for after I stopped making poor decisions.
Myth Number Two. Free enterprise is driven by greed.
If entrepreneurs were all about money, they'd be far better off getting a secure job in civil service. Small-business owners made 19 percent less money per year than government managers.
Entrepreneurs are driven by a fierce desire to control their own destiny. They strive for earned success.
For some people, earned success means business success; for others, it means raising good kids, building a nonprofit, or making beautiful art -- whatever allows people to create value in their lives and in the lives of others.
Only free enterprise gives them the personal freedom to do that.
>>709221367
Because it's proof that you whole ideology is a huge scam.
>>709205135
>cant medically care for self
>can't forage for food, hunt for food, or grow food
>can't offer up labor of any kind or be of any use to anyone
>human waste that would literally die without the charity of others
>still gonna have 5 children and demand the charity of others
No thanks, no one is anyone else's responsibility.
What do you think the goal of life is anon?
Standard of living, ethical living, technological advancements?
That shapes your politics. Utilitarianism is the most good for the most amount of people but like any other system that wants higher standards of living, it fucks people over.
In an ideal ethical world there is no government, so you should limit the size of government slowly.
Until people can make ethical decisions for themselves and then you would have the best form of government, self government.
Myth Number Three. Free enterprise breeds envy.
Since 1973, the General Social Survey has asked Americans whether they believe good luck or hard work is more important in getting ahead. For 40 years, between 60 and 70 percent of Americans have chosen "hard work." In a recent poll, the Pew Research Center found that 88 percent of Americans said they admired people who get rich by working hard.
This view is unique to the United States. Americans are more likely than those of other nations to attribute success to hard work. Americans are twice as likely to do so than the French.
In a society that rewards initiative and offers opportunity, free enterprise fosters aspiration and ambition. It is in societies that have much less economic freedom and far fewer entrepreneurs and therefore economic stagnation that you find envy, resentment, and often unrest. This is the case in Europe, where people demand more and more government benefits instead of demanding to keep more of what they earn.
>>709210996
Myth Number Four. Free enterprise caused the Great Recession.
It wasn't free enterprise that was at fault; it was the lack of free enterprise. Statism and its co-dependent spouse -- corporate cronyism -- melted down our economy.
As my American Enterprise Institute colleague Peter Wallison has documented, two decades of misguided government policy created the conditions that led to the housing bubble. When housing prices collapsed, so did the whole financial system. And who showed up first in the bailout line? Large corporations, including car companies, big banks, and the government-backed mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
This isn't the free market at work -- not even close. It's a toxic mix of big government and its corporate clients. The solution is more free enterprise: where entrepreneurs put their money on the line and earn a profit or suffer a loss.
Myth Number Five. Free enterprise is unfair.
We all acknowledge that some income redistribution is necessary to pay for government and to finance a social safety net. But as long as people are free to earn money, some will earn more than others.
For a majority of Americans, fairness is not redistributing wealth; fairness is rewarding merit -- and that's what free enterprise does.
Free enterprise -- like freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion -- makes our nation more fair, not less.
>>709222247
Christ, can someone hit the off button on the Randroid?
>>709213507
…such that a vast number of people will neither produce nor earn. What is to be done with them? Malthusian extermination?
>>709222507
Try reading Aurther Brooks you dumb nigger.
>>709220499
>pursue his (completely state funded) education
Well, it's not free to go to university in Sweden unless you are living with your parents and they pay for your food. You take student loans which have an interest rate at 0,6% at the moment.
And Sweden have the most leveraged middle class in the world right now. (But that's mostly because we have 1 million sandniggers that requires welfare)
>>709220363
>support labor
>strive to be better
That isn't capitalism. Do you know what the definition of capital is? It's wealth that you can use to make wealth. That's what capital means.
Capitalism isn't about working for your money. Capitalism is about making your money work for you. Capitalism doesn't view the poor as real people, they are a resource, they are supposed to be used by the rich.
Fyi, when we talk about "capitalist countries" we are talking about countries like the U.S. Do you know very much about the U.S.? Do you actually think that the lords of America are interested in having a healthy economy?
Market economies depend on a diffusion of wealth. You need lots of buyers and lots of sellers. When wealth is broadly distributed, you have a market economy, with a high level of commerce. When wealth is concentrated, you have a feudal economy, with a low level of commerce.
Capitalism isn't about working for your money, capitalism is about letting your money work for you. I'm sorry but you have been lied to.
>>709205920
A central state cannot manage the resources efficiently. There you go. If you need examples, look at Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, or Ethiopia. All faced severe famines due to communism. The west certainly wasn't experiencing widespread famine in the 20th century.
>>709219784
I also have allowed several homeless people to stay with me, (some were human filth, they stayed homeless, some were great people who are doing great now) while donating to funds for local orphanage groups and animal shelters.
Keep blaming society for your problems faggots.
>>709209396
Stop poisoning the well and actually debate someone with an opposing view you ignorant fuck.
>>709223153
Wrong quote,
This was meant for this faggot.
>>709219759
