Any pilot bros here? Any student pilots or high schoolers wanna be a pilot? Stories, advice, pilot stories in this thread.
Pilot bros bread. Say position.
Me, small time ppl certificate holder, went to a 4 year university for airline pilots... not an airline pilot.
Flew in the 90s, at the time I didn't have the money to get my commercial so I just gave it up
CFI here
going to the ATC academy in the spring
>>708908035
I'm signed on to the Airforce. Going to training next month
Anyone have any pointers?
>>708908035
what school? I went to Vaughn College. It sucked
>>708908729
Don't crash. They don't like it when you crash.
>>708908729
TURN THE DAMN HEAT DOWN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxFW7-SecE
>>708909087
Damnit. Thanks dude. That was going to be my ice breaker.
>>708908035
Was in the Civil Air Patrol. Did my first solo flight at 17. Got my pilots license at Cecil Field in FL when I was 22. I don't own a plane, but Ive met people who do. I split fuel costs with them and we go on flights along the coast. Maybe once a month if I'm lucky. It's way easier than you would think.
try /n/
It'll only take 3 days between replies though
>>708908729
Just be yourself
>>708909066
Delta State. Mississippi.
>>708908729
If you are going to flight training, you're probably good. I've heard from lots of civilian pilots who went military say that their training is nothing like civvie training. So you're really not any better off having any civvie hours under your belt. If you become a pilot in the AF, thats pretty cool. AF pilots are the finest in the world. But many officers are not lucky enough to actually get a seat in an aircraft.
>>708909444
That is lucky, I'm OP, havent flown since 07. But I dont know anybody who I can split costs with. I'm saving up and planning in a few months to find a local flight school and get current.
>>708909852
My plan is to be an airman then try to get a degree for officer rank or whatever I need. And if all else fails I'm happy with just flying for the AF.
Sound good? Thanks for the info too.
>>708908428
OP here, was flying in early 2000s. Commercial pilot was not my end game, I didnt know anybody who actually made a career out of it without their ATP rating and lots of CFI and multi engine time. Also ran out of money, but that was after I decided Airline pilot wasnt the route for me, now its really just a hobby. Switched from Comm. Flight training to Business MGMT when the cash ran out, the school I went to didnt give you the extra money to fly in their program through student loans. You had to cover the cost of aircraft rental, charts, equipt. instructors on your own. Then I realized how shit new regional airline pilots get paid. It wasnt worth the 200,000 in private loans it would have taken to get in an airliner, making 15,000 a year.
Now I'm applying to the local police academy. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll go to rotor school and maybe get into the cop chopper. But it'll still probably just be a hobby.
>>708908035
student pilot here, thinking of going for CFI, not really sure though, maybe just get my private and enjoy flying for awhile first.
>>708910677
Here in AZ you need to be a beat cop for 5 years before you can fly for the PD. And you need to get your license on your dime, they don't train pilots.
>>708910168
OP here, non military. From what I've heard (my old man was a USAF colonel). You really need to go in as an officer or go through ROTC and be tops if you want to fly in the AF. After high school I got lots of calls from the army and marines promising to send me to helicopter school, but I was raised AF. My advice, get it done quickly, while you're young. Focus less on flying and more on book studies. The military doesnt care about civilian flight training hours. You need to be top of class to get in a seat in the air force. Just work hard.
>>708911026
Thats what I meant, I was thinking with the police incentives for getting a degree, I could go to night school, and get my rotor certificate (outside the police force) Then maybe bullshit my way into a spot in the police wing. I know they usually only hire ex military. But I figured I could afford to get my rotor cert on my own time and apply to a spot in the chopper.
>>708910723
That depends on whether or not you are in a local flight school, or a 4 year university with a flight program. You could waste a lot of time and money on a degree in commercial aviation that wont mean shit unless you go all the way through CFI, multi engine, ATP, and beyond.
I'd recommend you go to a university for a technical or business degree, and get your flight time at a smaller flight school on the side. I've seen guys get kicked out of the flight program and have to retake the entire flight program from the beginning just bec. they couldnt foot the bill for flying for a semester. DO NOT go in for a commercial aviation degree. Go in for something else and do the flying on the side. Airlines only care about degrees and flight time, they dont care if your degree was in aviation. And universities with an aviation program can fuck you hard. Get a degree in something like business, and get your flight hours elsewhere.
>>708911405
Sounds like a decent plan. Are you only interested in chopper or would you consider fixed wing? PD here flies a few fixed wing out of my local airport, they're set up with some really high tech camera systems.
>>708908035
Ever since I was a kid I wanted to be a pilot. I have started to seriously consider this since I've finished university recently and got a decent job. I'd like to know how much training is required to get a license for small aircraft.
Every pilot I have ever met thinks they are the second coming.
>>708911867
I'm too old for all that shit and I already have a career. I have a ton of time on my hands and I just felt like flying, it was something I always wanted to do. I'm learning from a private instructor who makes decent money just teaching students and flying every day. I was thinking about doing something like that as a retirement gig in the future.
>>708912239
I came twice yesterday, does that count?
>>708911867
Let me give you an example. My life.
I went to a 4 year university with a commercial aviation program, to become an airline pilot. I flew for 2 years, got my ppl cert and started instrument/commercial training. Then the money ran out for flying (would have had to take out private loans, the school didnt cover flying in their loans).
Wound up, had to change my degree from "commercial aviation flight operations" to "commercial aviation management" which meant... basically all of the classes I had studied my ass off for and did well in, and paid for, didnt mean shit for my degree. I basically had to start over.
Plus, I know guys who havent even finished the program yet with about 200,000 in loans. Airline pilots, starting out, dont make shit. If you're lucky, you'll get hired by fedex for 300,000 a year, I dont know a fedex pilot under the age of 50, and mandatory retirement is age 65, or atleast it was when I was flying.
Go for something else, and do your flight training on the side.
>>708911911
My private cost me $14k eight years ago. Now it's closer to $20k here. Granted that was in a major city
>>708911869
I love fixed wing, but In my area, its really only rotor wing aircraft. I have ppl in fixed wing, but I'll learn to fly rotors on the side while I can and maybe get a police wing job.
>>708912455
I went to a flight university and have a 4 year degree in flying. I was able to do the ATC CTI program, get my aircraft dispatcher's certificate, and commercial pilot's license by the time i graduated. My school didn't have planes so I was able to go to a flight school of my choosing.
I'm a CFI now and I just hit 500 hours last week. The way I see it, I'll need to instruct for another 2 years to get the 1500. I applied for ATC last year when it opened to "off the street" hires and got in. I figure it's great pay, federal job and living in hotels as a pilot would have gotten old fast. If it doesn't work out, I can always go back to instructing
I can fly SEL with fixed gear but I can no longer get my medical card due to being bipolar. I miss flying.
>>708912885
What's the upper and lower pay scale like for ATC? I've always been curious.
>>708911911
OP here, fixed wing ppl holder. Its entirely possible, and really not THAT hard or expensive, if its really a passion. Find a good local flight school, and take lessons when you can afford them. The south east or midwest USA is good. Lots of good flight schools, and lots of good weather for flying. I spent about 10,000 on my ppl, not including the tuition etc. I paid for my university flight training. Local "part 61" school is what you want. I went to a "part 141 school" and while the training was top notch, its not worth it if all you want is your Private Cert.
Find a small time school at a local airport
MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!! FIND A FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR YOU LIKE. My first flight instructor was an asshole and tried to sabotage me (didnt realize it until I had to fly with another instructor). Do not be intimidated by an instructor, if hes a hot shit, look elsewhere. I never knew you could land with more than 10 degrees flaps, and always had trouble with my landings, until I got a good instructor that wasnt a hot shot. The chief flight instructor didnt believe me when I flew with him, and insisted on only deploying 10 degrees flaps. I had never landed with more than that in my entire training. He got an ass chewing. Last I heard he was flying for American Eagle in Minneapolis a regional part of American Airlines.
>>708912732
I had no idea that my local PD has 6 fixed wing aircraft, I thought all they had were ghetto birds. I've seen some of their fleet when I fly out of my local airport, they're unmarked and look just like civilian aircraft. I'd love to fly for PD but I don't want to be a beat cop for 5 years.
>>708908035
Notna pilot but i knowmone day ill be on a 737 when both pilots are ganna die somehow and theyll ask if a pilot is on board and ill raise my hand and take control. All those years of playing flight simulator are ganna pay off.
>>708908035
ppl here
instrument training
going to four year school for airline pilots
not an airline pilot.... yet
>>708913527
depends on the facility level and location. Low level towers might make $50-70k. A center controller can make up to $150-180k
>>708909066
currently going there
what sucked about it besides the food?
>>708913577
My CFI is like 80 years old and almost always insists on full flaps. We aim for the numbers and I always feel like we're dive bombing the runway.
>>708914073
Well, it was alright for what I paid. They remodeled the entire campus right after I left. I graduated in 2011. For maintaince it was pretty good, but for flying like I did... not so much.
I didn't get to use the sims, no girls, no school spirit, the teachers really didn't seem to care, parking was horrible
:O what happens if your engine fails? Is the whole 10:1 glide ratio a true thing and you can just land?
Airline pilot here. Pay is good, lifestyle is great. It isn't as fun as flying a Cessna, but it is better than working in an office.
>>708914073
& if you thought the food was bad now, you should have seen what it was before they remodeled.
>>708914199
My instructor resented me, I think bec. I had already flown with my cousin (CFI at the time, now a Delta captain)... I already knew the 4 forces of flight, weather, equipt, etc. He never let me land with more than 10 degrees flaps, and always gave me shit about my landings... He once said I quote "you do crazy shit on landings, I dont like flying with you" well maybe that was bec. I couldnt stick a landing on the numbers with only 10 degrees... Finally flew with the chief flight instructor, this is after I soloed, I think the first instructor tried to kill me, he knew I wasnt competent on landing ( i mean i could land the bitch, but it always floated)...
Chief flight instructor never let me fly with that guy again, he was a real hot shot wannabe.
Later was told by another instructor that I flew so smooth I was making him sick. Made the highest score on my ppl knowledge test in the history of my school (missed only one question).
You need to be comfortable with your instructor, if he's young or has something to prove, dont fly with him.
Half way through private. It's hella expensive.
>>708914369
A lot of people I know went from flight ops to aviation sciences
I'm sure they're still flying privately but then you don't get to take advantage of the 141 thing.
It's kinda discouraging to see such a large volume of people opting out of the decision I made. Is it just because money? Because I'm already basically ducked as far as loans go, so my problem is making it worth it.
Also yeah, I'm enjoying the new renovations. Though it seems like they're constantly trying to rationalize the tuition price with free food and forcing the teachers to use the smart board systems and online stuff.
Any teachers to avoid because incompetence?
>>708914769
small light weight fixed wing like a cessna... you can set it down in a small field with no damage. Just gotta be aware of wind direction, speed. Its really easy to land a small aircraft with minimal damage off field. Airliner? too heavy, too fast. Cessna? put it down anywhere.
>>708914776
Did you take advantage of any of those tracks the airlines are putting out to recruit new pilots? Also are you married?
Ik envoy has a ten year program, but I'm skeptical about long term promises..
>>708914909
Oh, btw, this bastard didnt give me my shirt tail back. Real asshole.
>>708915358
I went through one of the main training providers in the UK who set me up with an airline within 3 months of finishing my training. Yes I'm married.
>>708915107
Not sure about the teachers. The last time I looked that the course schedule, I didn't recognize 90% of the names on it
try ratemyprofessors.com
>>708914822
It's not too far off of what's there now.
They recently hired a new chef doe, so that's a step in the right direction.
And yeah, the ratio is godaweful. It's funny watching decentish looking girls being pandered after like they're 10's. They have their pick lol.
Also the sim guys are confusing. I HAVE to take sim time for my class, and when I ask them how I did it what I should practice they just tell me to keep coming back..
>>708915358
>>708915539
Those fast track "get all your ratings" programs are pretty good if you can afford them, and are competent, bec. they give you no leeway for mistakes or re-taking a flight syllabus. My cousin went through one. He had a tough time getting CFI hours for a while, but he eventually made it to Captain seat of Delta. Still domestic flights, but he does ok. If you got the time, money, and determination, you can do well with one of those. But professional flying really is a crap shoot. Just hope you dont fuck up a knee or lose your hearing or your vision. (yes you can fly with less than perfect vision, but you better be damned good to be considered for a seat in an airliner)
>>708914909
4 forces of flight?
Dreams = Lift
Reality = Weight
Money = Thrust
FAA = Drag
Full flaps in a 172 feels like dropping a boat anchor, but the one I fly doesn't like to come down, she always floats on me. Got any good landing tips?
I always forget the hiring pool is global..
If you don't mind me asking, how is the travel/distance thing with a spouse? Can they come with?
I'm looking at an internship in Kansas this summer and I'm hoping either she can come with or that she'd be able to focus on herself while I'm gone.
>>708915953
Lose my medical, get £300,000 in insurance. It's not so bad.
Glider-Pilot here!
PPL-C or GPL ...
ready for takeoff
>>708915975
Your 4 forces are spot on. My landing tips, adjust your seat, it took me a while to realize I was sitting too low. Also, get an instructor who doesnt make you come in high with 10 degrees. Once I realized I could make my seat a bit higher, and I could use 30 degrees when needed, I stuck every landing. Probably because I had so much practice getting a too fast too high cessna down with only 10 degrees. I still swear my first instructor had it out for me. Fuck you Matt. Wherever you are.
airline pilot here, not hard job, lifestyle is ok and its nice to have coffee brought to you whenever you ask
>>708916205
OP here, ppl, fixed wing. Gliders freak me out. Fuck that no thrust bullshit. I've always wanted to do it, but growing up with an engine, your glider makes me nope right out.
im going to go to an university with a business and pilot course joined together next year. 4 year course. gonna be an airline pilot. eurofag here btw
>>708916705
every landing, is a emergency landing!
where is my engine?!
>>708908035
Student Pilot, one week away from taking the written.
Air Force pilot here.
Always interested in flying. Did a bit up to my solo with Civil Air Patrol. Then AFROTC in college, got my pilot slot, went to IFS (now IFT) in Colorado, then UPT, an am now about to complete initial qual training in my actual aircraft.
Tons of work, but it's pretty damn cool.
>>708916385
I think you might be on to something. I had 15 landings with less than desirable results. I have excellent eye-hand coordination and couldn't figure out why my landing weren't improving. Just two flights ago I started adjusting my seat higher and everything changed with my landings. We did 5 touch and goes and I started nailing the landings. I get a much better sight picture when my seat is higher. I can't wait to see how my next 5 go.
>>708916953
LEARN THAT BOOK. That FAA Private Pilot Knowledge study book. The questions are the exact same questions, in the exact same order. The blue soft cover book (that how it was in 06) is the exact exam you will be given, down to the words. The FAA study book for the knowledge exam, it is the exam, learn it, and you'll do great.
>>708917314
Aiming point, aspect, centreline, speed. Keep repeating that to yourself. A good approach leads to a good landing.
>>708917314
sounds just like me. You really need to see over the cowling. Good luck bro, blue skies soft landings. My instructors always rushed me so much that I never really got to "feel" the airplane the way I should. Adjust that seat, make it right for you.
>>708917471
Sorry, it may be the "ASA" study book. Which ever book your school recommends. When I was studying for my ppl, I had to take 3 practice exams before the flight school would let me take the real test (our scores reflected on the school)... The book was the exam. Look up the 2006-2007 study guide, a soft cover blue book. It was exactly the same questions in exactly the same order.
So many student pilot and nobody is asking specific tips from the two airline pilots in the thread. Wasted opportunity?
>>708917314
this was me>>708917615
I had to adjust my seat higher, and I'm not short 6' 1" in shoes. I needed the seat higher. One thing my good instructor told me "make the airplane do what you want". Dont pussy foot it. FLY the airplane. CONTROL it. And make sure you can see that cowling.
>>708918057
i did though...
>>708908035
>4 year aviation degree
>graduate in 09, fucking worst timing possible
>fumble around for years, impossible to find work
>eventually start flight instructing, fucking sucks
>get an MBA in the meantime
>get in contact with guy near my university
>start doing aerial photos (and ground photos) or basically lots of little odd jobs flying small planes, carrying sensors for NOAA or whatever
>guy wants to retire, basically handing me the biz
>making 90k/yr no bennies though.
basically only fly VFR, not even IFR current lol. Last job was Detroit-->Chicago-->Cedar Rapids-->Evansville-->Detroit, spent the night in cedar rapids. I fly a 210 centurion
ama
OP here, suprised my thread lasted this long. In this land of traps and memes and bullshit, a real thread lasted. Good luck to all you budding or wanna be pilots. Its rewarding, and its something that less than 1% of people can do. Go for it. I lurk often, if anyone wants more advice, make a thread, theres a good chance that I or one of my pilot bros will see it. Good luck bros. The university to airline route jaded me, but I still love flying, and will always help out a fellow airman.
>>708919128
> The university to airline route jaded me
ditto.
and most of the people in my classes were the biggest tools humanity could produce. that really left a bad taste in my mouth.
sometimes i want to delete my facebook just so i dont have to read another pilot joke or some subtle-brag about flying jets. god fucking almighty.
>>708918057 Well, you're an airline pilot, student was a long time ago for you. Do you still remember what it feels like to have the seat of a cessna 172 pucker up into your ass on your first crosswind landing?
>>708919030
why does instructing suck?
>>708916512
a) who you work for/what are you flying
b) whats the pay
c) what sucks about the job you'd wish you'd known about before taking it
>>708919030
>ask me anything?
>I dont need to ask, Ill tell. You are a lucky fuck. The aviation community is small enough that you really need to know somebody who knows somebody to get that kind of gig. And everybody know somebody, so you gotta be really good at meeting people and networking. Commercial jobs like that are very hard to come by, probably more rare than an airline seat.
Good for you bro, I'd love to fly with you sometime, but your story is a very rare one.
>>708919340
Absolutely I can. I've flown many types now and I remember each one well. And crosswind landings can still make you nervous when flying a jet.
>>708919945
Do you still enjoy flying or is it just a job now?
>>708919471
Everyone wants to fly the cheapest thing (totally understandable) but that means most of my time was spent in a 152. Cramped & uncomfortable. I did all my training in 72's so when I had a student in a 172 it was like a treat to be in an actual upright chair.
I also taught mostly fresh students, not many commercials at my place. So I spend all this time getting someone to just-getting-not-awful and they pass their rides and its on to someone else totally fresh. Eventually I just want to jump out the plane instead of saying 'watch your altitude' for the 40 billionth time. You never seem to reap the reward of your efforts.
The pay sucks. $15-20/hr is usual, but thats only time you fly or do ground, so an 8 hr day doesnt net you 8 hrs of pay. And booking 4 2hr lessons for 5 straight days will make you want to murder people after a few months, almost everyone burns out and you start giving shitty instruction cuz youre just there to build hours. When youre with students you cant eat, use the bathroom, use the phone, etc. One lesson over, the next one is waiting.
Plus I did it in Michigan where its super shitty in the winter.
>>708920050
It isn't the same as flying a light aircraft. There is no freedom. I used to look out the window and say, "that looks interesting, I'll fly over there and play around for a bit". Now, its get up at 0230 for a 4 sector day, get home 14 hours and look after the kids. Days are long. But then I spend many of the days in the air reading a book or playing on the iPad. The enjoyment of the day comes solely from the person you're sitting next to. If you are flying with a cunt, you're going to have a cunt of a day. But the enjoyment isn't the same as flying light aircraft and I miss doing so greatly.
>>708919505
Not the guy you replied to, but have my share of aviation knowledge.
He could work for any airline, flying anything from a twin engine turbo prop to a 4 engine jet.
The pay can range from 12,000 usd for small time regional airline pilot, to 300,000 usd fedex international flights, but thats really only if you've been in the business for a couple decades.
What sucks? Airlines dont have your back, the pilot union only grudgingly does. Any mistake, any problem with the aircraft, usually, comes back to PIC. Pilot in Command. Pretty much all problems, even if not your fault, come to shine on you as pilot in command. Maintenance problems, weather, or even ATC mistakes, are yours to inherit. You are PIC, you are fucked if a mistake is made anywhere down the line.
Not trying to be bitter, flying is great, pilots are great, but you ask what sucks? Thousands of people want you to fly in less than ideal conditions then blame you for doing so. Be careful, and remember, if you are PIC, be PIC, do not fly if you have even a slight doubt about a flight. YOU ARE PIC.
Got my ppl at 18 and lost it all with drugs. now im psychotic and not able to fly untill i pass my medical 3 months after im off tablets, i managed to get off them for 2 months but relapsed and now ive been fighting for the past 5 months without any luck
>>708920050
That said, when flying a complicated hand-flown approach, like taking a visual into Nice 22R VOR B, then flying becomes fun. Same when landing in bad weather, and doing a good job. It's a great feeling.
>>708919575
I have really shitty luck in general so its crazy that I found this gig. I mean there are downsides too but in general I'm enjoying it. I can't believe the stuff I get away with too, sometimes I have to fly between like... the Trump and Sears towers over chicago to get a site and no one seems to give a shit. I'm not joking in the slightest when I say 'between' either.
It does get insane when I need to switch lenses and I'm flying low over downtown, jets are flowing into ohare and I'm staying clear of the bravo and all the random traffic floating near downtown or up/down the shoreline. Ill probably die eventually lol.
but I'm hoping to get a few more planes and pilots and really fire up the business using my MBA, maybe be in the plane less.
>>708920355
Reminds me of my first solos in my part 141 school. The syllabus would tell me to go to practice area whatever, and do whatever maneuvers. I used to go out, and just fuck around, I'd find a car to follow, do some steep turns, pretend like I was maverick, then go back to base and say I did the required maneuvers. I think that made me a better pilot, it really helped me get a feel for the aircraft, just tooling around doing what I wanted.
>>708920142
Wow, ok. I don't think I'd want to teach at a school.
I live in the southwest where the flying weather is good. I only work about 20 to 30 hours a week and money isn't really an issue. But I'm bored. I was thinking of buying a 172 and getting my CFI just for the fuck of it, thought it would be cool to be a private instructor. Most private instructors around here charge 60 an hour + 125 for the plane, wet.
>>708920366
im more curious about real pays. I dont think anyone is paying 12k/yr anymore, at least all my pilot friends seem optimistic (though i dont think there is a LOT of "tell ourselves this until we all believe it" going on) but the number of pilots getting 300k is infinitesimally small. And is it really 300k? It used to be crazy before the crash, I really doubt companies were willing to shoot back up that high so quickly.
Plus I can all but guarantee that those jobs will be long gone by the time I have the experience necessary to land them - Cargo is going to be the 1st thing that gets totally rid of human pilots in every cockpit. I know fedex and UPS are chomping at the bit for automated flight.
>>708921200
As an FO I was getting £45,000. As an SFO I am getting £70,000. When I get my command next year I will be getting £120,000. They are rough totals as they depend on sector pay, bonus and share price, but they are pretty accurate. I can't be bothered converting that into USD, sorry.
>>708920650
Sounds great. I cant imagine flying in Chicago Class B. Busiest I ever flew was in Memphis Class B, and thats pretty much all fedex. Good luck man, blue skies. Nice to find a pilot on /b/. Take care.
>>708921019
i mean, you where you are you can get away with charging a bit more.
We charged:
45/hr for basic (private) instruction
55 for advanced (instrument/commercial)
65/hr for CFI instruction.
90/hr for a C152
115/hr for a DA20
125/hr for a C172N
137/hr for a C172R
I paid 157/hr for a C172SP with the G1000s when I was at school 8 yrs ago.
Eventually I got 25/hr but I didnt instruct at a breakneck pace. I didn't know how long I'd have to do it so i didnt want to burn out.
Also I basically instructed out of a hangar, no office. The only people I talked to were students, so I had no coworkers basically. I really missed the social aspect of working at a restaurant. I dunno, I just really didnt like it
>>708921455
Oh, if youre over seas youre making loads more than we are in the states. My piers were taking FO jobs making 35kUSD and feeling lucky. I dunno how long it takes to be in the industry to get up to 100k but it must take more than a handful of years.
>>708922116
I'm not sure about airlines in the US, but time from being new to the job to being a captain on £120,000 ($150,000) is about 5 years.
>>708921200
Yes, my figures are from 2006 and from the pilots I knew in the business back then, I gave you the spectrum from shittiest pay to best pay. And chances are starting out in a regional you will get shit pay. Chances are if you get into international flights, especially for fedex or ups, flying a lot (max flight hours are different for passenger or cargo aircraft) you can make a killing, but most are in their 40s-50s before they get a gig like that if they are lucky enough to get one.
I doubt cargo flying will become any more automated than it already is, at least in the next few decades. They are making leaps and bounds in the automation aviation industry, but It wont pass FAA anytime soon. There will still be cargo pilots for a long time to come. Dont worry so much about automation taking jobs. Cargo pilots arent going to be replaced anytime soon. Much less, passenger aircraft pilots. There will always be 2 pilots in the cockpit.
>>708908035
Army Ausfag at basic flying training school here
>>708908035
Air Force student pilot right now. Currently in the T-6, finished off instruments last week and have been flying formation since. Will be going on to T-38's in December.
How do i get over fear of flying? Soon as i hit turbulence cold sweat breaks out and i clench my armrests
>>708922507
Not trying to be a butthead but this sounds like a pilot trying to convince themselves automation wont take jobs.
We all know the figures saying most errors are human (80%+) so if you get rid of the human, less errors. Amazon is going to get their permission to use drones for delivery and that is literally pilotless cargo transport, that is right around the corner. The FAA is doing this. Of course, no one can know for sure, but I think that ball is going to roll down hill very quickly once a track record for automated cargo delivery is laid out.
>>708922956
Alcohol
>>708922956
What do you think turbulence is?
>>708908035
9/11 Inside jewb?
Spent 20 years of my life wanting to be a commercial pilot, found out I have a rare genetic heart condition and will never be able to pass the physical for the CPL. Wanting to still get my PPL though
>>708923057
Tried that
>>708923061
Winds that hit the plane and cause it to jump as much as 40 feet. I know even intense turbulence is common and easy to deal with from a pilot perspective, just feels spooky
>>708922468
Man. Make me want to move to britbongland.
150 captianing what though? I though usually you had to bounce around different planes to work your way up to those pay levels.
>>708923338
Airbus 320s. Apart from training, I've never flown anything else.
Training was good. My portfolio of planes is:
Grumman AA5-A
Grumman AB5-B
PA28 Piper Warrior
Cessna C172
DA20 Katana
DA40 Diamondstar
DA42 Twinstar
Boeing 737-300 Simulator
Airbus 319
Airbus 320
>>708923279
>Winds that hit the plane
Turbulence is when are is just moving around. So if you move through air that is moving up or down as you go through it, it can change the amount of lift the wings generate. A little more, or little less. We are talking tiny, TINY fractions. But in planes moving 400+mph through air (even 100mph actually) this tiny amount causes a lot of movement. This can get tremendously complicated based on weight and angles of... I'm not even going to get into all that.
The point is, turbulence is like a dirt road. You dont go from paved roads to a dirt road and assume the wheels are going to fall off or that the car will start being unable to drive (remember, these are safety obCESSED operators, not billy bob who is "pretty sure" his wheels are on right)
Just think of it like a dirt road. The planes are built to be able to handle bumps like that, its not like the wings are going to rip off or whatever. Eventually the dirt road will end and youll be back on pavement.
>>708922985
I am a pilot, but not professional, though I went to a college with a professional program. And I am afraid of automation, I hate that drones do so much military flying now. But...
Errors are pretty much 100% human in the aviation industry, but that trickles down to ATC and maintenance, which will still be human even after drones become more common. Amazon drone delivery wont work in the scope you think it will. I live in Memphis, I see the hundreds of md11's taking off and landing every day. Until Amazon has drones that size with international ranges, drone cargo delivery is a niche, sounds good, but impractical system.
You simply cant move that much cargo that far with automated aircraft, anytime in our lifetimes. Besides cargo, passengers will always want pilots in the cockpit. But were talking cargo.
There will not be a fleet of automated aircraft in our lifetime that can move even a small fraction of the cargo that manned flights move on a daily basis. Sure, a 20 mile trip from warehouse to office with a drone capable of carrying a 10lb package is possible, and maybe likely. But moving cargo across the globe, will be the stuff of MD11s or DC10s with humans in the cockpit for a long long time.
>>708923185
Look up a "recreational" or "sport" pilot license. Its much more lenient about the physical. Probably not able to carry passengers or fly in less than VFR. But you might still be able to fly. Look up Recreational or Sport pilot certificates.
Anyone with jet training/experience able to give perspective on how tough the training is?
Testing for PPL
Testing for CPL
Testing for CFI
Testing for CFI-I
Testing for MEI
Testing for _______whatever jet
I'm a cfi and that shit was a fuckin bitch to get. CFII is supposedly a cakewalk. CPL was tricky but not awful. Just curious where jet training ranks.
(this is assuming jets are jets, but maybe hawkers are way worse than citations or something?)
I've crashed a few planes in my day
>>708924597
well youre here still. just means those landins were only 'good' and not 'great' lol
OP here again, I simply cant believe a thread I made lasted so long. Thanks guys. And bros, even if you arent a pilot, if you just love aviation, become an AOPA member. Make sure your congressmen know your devotion to General Aviation. GA aircraft and pilots are a close community, and we always ALWAYS need more in the community. Go to a local flight school and take an introductory flight. It can be a passion for you. Please support GA and your local flight schools. It will only become harder to be a pilot in the future, make sure the Gov. doesnt kill General Aviation. Read about it, go fly, you will always find a friend in the aviation community. We help our own.
>>708924684
Any landing you can walk away from is a successful landing, or so I was told. Also, I've heard that you start out with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience, and you must fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.
Also, fly the god damned airplane. Its aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. Fly the plane.
>>708924596
It is different. It becomes about management of situations, rather than physical flying ability. You've just lost one of your hydraulics. Now your cabin is on fire. Now you dropped your phone in your coffee. What are you gonna do?!
>>708925482
Tell that to the passengers when they have to wait an hour for the undercarriage to be checked by engineering because you landed at 3Gs. Yes I did that, no I didn't think it was a good landing!
Does any had lasik or prk?
>>708925667
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Every air emergency is the result of a chain of mistakes. You must know to break the chain early before is escalates. This starts on the ground with a good walk around and weather briefing. Break the mistake chain. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Most of the air disasters started out as one small bad decision. If you are PIC, be PIC, dont let anyone convince you to fly in less than ideal conditions. Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than the other way around.
>>708925801
Lol is your nickname Thumper? I had an instructor that when he went to the airlines, on his first checkride, landed so hard he busted every lightbulb in the airplane. Or so I was told. He was a good pilot. But pretty "laid back". Hell he let me go on my first solo x-country without even looking at my flight plan. I loved that guy. Old Thumper. Good pilot, but probably better as a surfer or skateboarder or something.
>>708924073
>errors are 100% human
yeah sorry I meant accidents or situations leading to injury/damage. The whole 80/20 human goof up/equipment malfunction thing.
But I dunno. I really think there is a lot of "i dont want to be the 1st one to try it" going on. Once someone, like Amazon, does it, the seed will be planted and it'll grow like a weed. I guarantee you companies would LOVE to rid their cockpits of 200-400k/yr expenses. Even to reduce 2 pilots to 1, and have a guy on the ground monitoring 10 planes, just jumping in when needed (cuz 95-99.99% of the time that second pilot isnt needed)
As far as distance, absolutely they could. A plane can take off, enter sequence for an airport 1500mi away, fly there with GPS (or even vor rnav if all the navaids are working*) and and autoland "catIII" style and autopark. Cars can do it and having cars do it with all the insanity that happens on roads makes flying childsplay.
As far as passengers, once the trackrecord for auto-cargo is laid, passengers will be auto-shipped too. Itll start with some people being ok with it and many not, then then pilot-less ones will be cheaper and turn out to actually have a -higher- safety record, and then pilots will be done altogether.
Or they'll end up like tram/subway operators, basically there to handing retard-level difficulty but stuff outside the scope of the computers.
*dunno if thats even possible these days
>>708926058
Well yes but on your ATPL skills test you aren't going to get away with doing a walk around and saying, "nope not going to fly today". You're going to have a fuel leak, or generator failures. You're going to have a sick passenger or jammed slats and flaps. You're going to be landing in crosswinds 38kts across and with visibility on the limit. That's just how it is.
OP here, again. As PIC of this thread, I declare that /b/ from now on, is a forum for salty aviation stories. Sailing stories also count. Unless you are a sailor or pilot, get out. Only sailing or flying stories are allowed now. Also, >>708926550
I scared the shit out of Thumper on my first cross country night flight, he fell asleep, I pulled the throttle out, woke him up fast. He didnt find it very funny. I did.
>>708925122
yeah this is the longest pilot thread i've ever seen on /b/
>>708926910
I'm sure you're right, I only have my ppl. But, I would not fly an aircraft that had any malfunction. I'd wait for another aircraft. In the airline business I'm sure they need to be able to handle all of those situations, but my basic training says... dont fucking fly that aircraft. Now, I know that doesnt relate to airline pilots that need to push. But I, just me, I would not fly an aircraft with any malfunction until I've read in the maint. logs that it was fixed.
>>708925667
Ok but is it like... sheer memorization? I've seen the manuals for a dasault and a citation x, fucking things are ridiculous. Are you expected to basically internalize the whole things? Or just enough to deal with emergencies? Like, knowing what systems 1 generator failure will be affected by - shit tons on similar situations?
Is the test basically just testing you on the nuances of the particular model?
>Now you dropped your phone in your coffee
flip up the guard and smash in that panic button
>>708924684
Yup
Most of my crashes were mechanical failure. Lost a fuel line one time. Broke a strut doing a short feild landing took a hard tumble on that one. In the wilderness no less. Run out of runway onetime and ended up doing an endo.
These are things that happen in the bush.
>>708927582
Well remember, your C152 is basically a lawnmower on its side. You start adding stuff like... slats, spoilers, gear, pressurization, all the nav stuff your company expect to be able to use to do what it needs to, on and on... and then considering lots of this stuff has 1 or even 2 redundant/backup pieces of the same equipment, you start to see why that stance doesnt make sense.
plus, try telling your boss 'i'm PIC and I dont feel like this" and he goes ok, youre fired for refusal of duty. Theres 40 guys chomping at the bit to take your spot, your boss doesnt care. he's not going to let 200 paying customers go 15 feet over to the next counter to fly their plane.
>>708928083
One could argue being overly hard on your equipment was pilot error in the 1st place....
>lost a fuel line
wtf lol how does that happen? Are you not inspecting shit regularly, especially if you're that hard in your planes?
>Run out of runway onetime and ended up doing an endo.
youre just retarded. there are so many things you fucked up doing before you got to that point its ridiculous
>>708927606
Yes, from what I understand, you're not in that airplane unless you already have lots of flight time in similar aircraft. So yes, you'll need to know by memory most of the significant emergency procedures. But thats why its required the P.O.H. be in the cockpit, in one particular location, and you know where it is. You can read the manual in flight. But remember, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. If you are in an aircraft like that, you already know how to fly them. The nuances? You can read about them while you are gliding down to a nice field. FLY THE FUCKING AIRPLANE MY FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR USED TO SAY. Read the manual on your way down. At any time, in any place on any flight, you should already have an alternate landing site scoped out. A good pilot (and instructors drill this into you by pulling your throttle over an old AG strip). You should already have an emergency landing site on the mind.
>>708927294
i needed to go to the gym like 2 hours ago, fuck.
My dad is building a 5 seater.
Here's some pictures.
>>708928838
bud, I am a CFI.
I'm asking a jet pilot about jet transition.
also, 0.000% of jet pilots are constantly scoping out landing spots from 35k' lol. Id be shocked if there are any actual pilots out there that do this, in any situation/job, ever.
>>708928714
All very true. Lost the fuel line In an expiremental. Wasn't my plane.
Short field landing was in Alaska. It was the only field suitable for landing done it a million times. This time something broke.
Run out of runway totally my fault.
Tundra had melted and was soggy flew in thinking it was still hard. Knew I was fucked as soon as I landed. Fuck me. Tried it anyway because I'm a dumbass
>>708928324
I've flown more than a 152, Ive flown the DA52, and I know, what you say is exactly correct, and it is EXACTLY what our flight instructors warned us about. Dont kill yourself or your passengers. Let that hot shot take your seat. DO NOT FLY IF YOU AS THE PIC FEEL IT IS UNSAFE TO FLY. Go ahead and let the punk fly. You are PIC. Remember, when you are PIC you are responsible for all of those lives (souls on board). I would not ever let somebody presssure me into flying. If that means my career, so be it. I will not fly.
>>708929128
>>708929090
>>708929046
>>708929012
>>708928983
what is it and whats the HP on that motor.
>>708929413
It's never been done before. All CF and I can't remember the HP. It's a Jabaroo 6000 though I think.
>>708929285
Bud, you are a more experienced pilot than I am. I am not a CFI. But I will bet that more than 0.0% of pilots are actually looking for an alternate landing spot. Will it help in a heavy airliner of fast moving jet? Maybe not, but as I was warned, the more experience you have, the more complacent you get. Dont you remember the 5 hazardous attitudes? Do you even know what I'm talking about? Better to refuse a flight than put yourself in a position where one mistake can mean a disaster. And honestly, if you disagree with me, you are the kind of pilot all of my experienced pilot instructors warned me about.
>>708929346
I feel you mean but I'm just saying, you'll never find a career in aviation. There will be days when you are pushed into situations you arent comfortable with.
You're thinking it's always cut and dry. Lets say your plane has a max demo cross wind of 20. You have a scheduled flight into an airport reporting 25kt crosswind. You say "nope, I refuse" So you lose your job and the "hot shot" behind you laughs because he knows max demo is just what was demonstrated on the day of certification and the plane (with good technique) can actually handle 35-40kt x-winds. So he does the flight, has no issue.
Maybe instead you convince yourself that it can handle more than 25kts x-wind, so you do it yourself and succeed. Now you just did something you originally thought you'd refuse. Now what? You start seeing that its not always so cut and dry.
>>708930152
If crosswind is above max crosswind limit, you don't land unless there is no place to divert to and no fuel to wait it out. There are legal and insurance ramifications that the airline wouldn't be happy with. In my airline, if you put it down in a crosswind that was outside of limits, and you could have diverted, you will definitely be reprimanded, possibly losing your job.
>>708930009
>0.0% of pilots
test them. go ahead lol. Next time youre with any pilot, ask them: "engine just quit, where we going?" I guarantee you 99.99999% of the time they'll start looking around. Its just a huge amount of energy to constantly look. You have other things to do.
Theres a difference between complacency and just being realistic. When I fly lets say, chicago to detroit at 10k' you know where I plan to go? Muh-fuggin ANYWHERE lol its all farmland. I'm not scanning the ground going 'theresafield, theresafield, theresafield.... theresafield, theresafield. theresafield theresafield theresafield'
>do i know the 5 hazardous attitudes
do you know one is resignation? "i cant do this"
>you are the kind of pilot all of my experienced pilot instructors warned me about.
I probably have more time just instructing than your 'experienced' instructors total time. That kind of attitude is a very inexperienced attitude, that hasnt seen real life. Which is common for instructors, especially college instructors. But they/we are trained like that, to say that, so that when you silly PPLs go screw up we can say 'no we never said go fly with flaps inop' even though knowing full well a plane can fly no prob with inop flaps.
You need to watch a few episodes of flyin' wild alaska lol
>>708931150
you're talking company max versus demonstrated/certified max.
and besides im just making a point. I could have said something about flying into conditions that could produce ice but none has been reported, or a myriad of other less-than-ideal situations career pilots have to deal with.
>>708930152
>now you do something you thought you'd refuse. Its not so cut and dry.
Yes i realize this. Listen, I am not a professional pilot. I went to a professional pilot school, but I do not consider myself a professional pilot. All I'm saying is, and you can take this to the bank, that leads to one of the 5 hazardous attitudes. Complacency. Next time you might think you can land in an even greater crosswind, and you'll do that and do it more, until you learn the aircraft limitations. I have no problem flying by the book. BUT AGAIN I am not a professional pilot. I've had the training, and this is what I learned. DO NOT FLY OUTSIDE THE ENVELOPE. Maverick did not win the TOP GUN trophy. ICEman did, ICEMAN flew by the book, ICE COLD NO MISTAKES. AGAIN I am not a professional pilot, but I am a pilot, and I take it seriously. Sure, airline pilots get pushed to fly, and I dont blame them for flying in less than ideal conditions. But look up that Buffalo NY crash. Thats a perfect example of airlines pushing a pilot to fly when they shouldnt.
Again, I'm not Maverick. I'd rather be ICEMAN. Ice cold, by the books, like I was taught, and I had some of the finest flight training offered in the united states.
>>708931633
Well. I guess have fun flying on severe clear, windless days and paying to do it.
>>708931268
To be honest we are usually knowledgable enough in the area to have an idea of where we would want to go if something happened. We know the airports around, we get updates on the weather for airports along our route throughout the flight. We know where the long runways are and we would consider the wind direction for how quickly we can get somewhere. But even then, we wouldn't make a snap decision. DODAR. Diagnose the problem, Option generation, decide on a course of action, assign tasks, review. In practice it depends on the situation and this process can last anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes. So yes we are aware of where we might want to land if it all goes wrong, but we would also take the time to consider all options available before jumping into that decision. We don't fly along saying to ourselves "if I lose both engines now I'm landing there" every 2 minutes.
>>708931268
no bullshit man, I'm the guy you replied too, and you made me laugh, I agree with most of your statements, I understand them. Until you said you probably had more hours than all my flight instructors combined. I was lucky, Most of my flight instructors were prior military. I understand the "theresafield, theresafield, theresafield"... Like I said last time, I'm a low time pilot. But I would not, again, I would not fly if I felt it unsafe. Maybe thats why I am not an airline pilot. I dont claim to be Maverick here. But I will always, ALWAYS, fly safe.
P.S. you could live to be 80 and not have the combined flight experience of 2 of my instructors. I dont doubt that you are a good pilot. But you have no idea the caliber of men that were my flight instructor and ground class teachers.
>>708931268
I flew wild Alaska when it was really wild. Bush and caro. A lot different today
>>708932703
Fucking Fairbanks is like every other city in America now. When I was there it was the Wild West. Who're houses saloons gunfights everything
>>708931944
Look man, I never said I was pilot supreme. I was the first, about a thousand comments ago, to admit I am not a professional pilot. But I've seen a lot of flights gone bad. Look, all I was trying to do was bolster the "fly safe" attitude. Seriously, did none of you guys start in General Aviation?
In one class, I not only had to start a fake aviation business I had to justify it, and work it down to the maint. and secretary staff salaries.
I love GA. I support it, and I am a friend to all pilots. I'm just saying, dont blame your airline when it comes to safety, no pilot I know will tell you its the airlines fault if you make a bad decision.
Fly safe bros.
>>708927606
To get onto the jet you need to pass 3 tests. The JOC and MCC are usually tested at the same time. I did mine on the 737-300 Simulator, and it basically involved hand-flying in poor visibility, one engine stuff, that kind of thing. It was fairly simple and physical based. What was difficult was learning all of the 737-300 SOPs, as well as all the study for the training details, in just 2 weeks. That was pure memorisation.
The type rating was different. It had aspects of the former - so physical aptitude based around hand-flying with manual thrust, engine failure in take-off, single engine approach to go-around, single engine non-precision approach, that sort of thing. But it also included failure management, so what to do if there is a bomb found on board, or something else fairly simple. This is about following procedures written in the QRH, the quick reference handbook, and on the airbus we use ECAM. There are only a few emergency situations that we need to know the procedures for by memory, such as unreliable speed indications, emergency descent... time critical stuff. The focus here is less on memory, more on your ability to think clearly, react appropriately and cooperate with the guy sitting next to you, the cabin crew, ATC, the passengers and the company. It is more a time management exercise than anything else. Good knowledge is essential but you don't need to know the entirety of the Flight Crew Operations Manual.
After that, every 6 months we have a check in the simulator. So one check will be a mixture of manual and management testing, with a focus on engine failures and winter operations. The second will be a management-focused test, with manual handling thrown in. And as you gain experience it gets more challenging. So for example, my last test had the cabin manager get sick from drinking unclean water onboard, meaning the water was also contaminated, I got a DC ESSENTIAL BUS failure, and I got an engine failure, all on the same flight.
>>708932396
Doesnt it stike you as odd that military pilots would advocate such a 'everything must be perfect or nogo' stance?
Military would be on the absolute top of the most likely to go in sketchy circumstances and not really be able to say no list.
As far as experience, i have 120,000 hours of dual given and am 135 years old. True story
>>708934053
Good info, much appreciated
>be me
>afrotc cadet
>dream of a pilot slot
>too lazy to put in the extra effort to get a good commanders ranking
>feelsbadman.jpg
>>708934399
I think they just want new pilots to be safe. As your experience grows, your confidence and so what you are happy to fly in grows too. I would be telling a new guy never to fly in bad weather. I would be telling someone nearing his CPL to take it up there and see what happens, if it isn't good come back. Flying for an airline, you take it up there, see what happens, if it isn't any good wait for a bit, then divert and wait for it to get better. But aside from an Icelanding volcano or attack by Megashark, I'm going to fly whatever happens. I even flew to Sharm El Sheik during the week after the bombing. Why not?
>>708935061
Right. This is realistic. I just had to giggle when a ppl tells a jet pilot and probable ATP to be wary of the 5 hazardous attitudes and that he is PIC.
>>708934569
No problem. For extra info, the 6 monthly tests are 8 hours long - 4 hours on day one and 4 hours on day two. You also need to complete an Aircraft Competency Check and a Final Line Check every 2 years, as well as initially after training.
>>708936240
5 hazardous attitudes... let me think. 90 degrees nose up, 90 degrees nose down, inverted, going backwards, inside out. Did I get them all?
>>708929285
ETOPS
Engine turns or people swim
>>708936737
>inside out
Lold. That does indeed sound pretty hazardous, even for the aerobats out there
>>708937589
>tfw have to fly up the dead center of the entire lake michigan in a SEL. 3 days in a row next week
I might actually have to say no on this one. That raft in the back seat doesnt make me feel better
