Why are religious people so stupid?
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Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Why are religious people so stupid?
I don't know man. Why am I? I've been this way all my life. Can you give me a diagnosis or something?
>>696930995
"why are stupid people so stupid"
>>696931265
Delusional I would imagine
To be fair, Islam is far worse than Christianity.
>>696931287
I don't know man. I never saw any. Where do you find them, and how can I be sure I'm not one?
>>696930995
JESUS wants your semen for breakfast in heaven
>>696931480
They're both evil bullshit
Why do people think broad, sweeping generalizations of large people groups are smart ideas?
were stupid..? let me know your plan on how to escape the law of death my God has set as law upon you.. you cant escape His clutches...
>>696930995
Islam isn't a religion, it's a Political ideology, that's why they have the specific goal to install sharia law worldwide, and why 'conquering' is mentioned so much in their texts.
>>696932123
It's 'we're' not were, stupid
he died to give you a way out of this shit life.. and break the chains of death..and you spit in his face...smh
>>696932363
>never said i was an english teacher.. better to be bad at spelling and live..than to miss Gods love and die
>>696932378
cringey bait. fucking faggots everywhere
>>696932673
Not bait...truth
>>696930995
Yo a lot of people are stupid. Most people are stupid, that includes you and me. Some of the dumb assholes also happens to be religious.
>>696932759
if this isn't bait then you need to start actually questioning things my friend. the bible is full is bullshit hypocritical nonsense. fuckin greek mythology had more weight to it than christianity.
You think your smart..? you dont even know how your awsome body works.. or how oxygen made.. how plants are made and thrive.. your just a human with a black heart..your pride in yourself is a trap.. wake up
>>696933107 but humans do know the answers to all of those questions. none of the answers are god. fuckin dipshit
>>696930995
Why are you a fucking virgin?
Simple: God wants you to die for this blasphemy he knew you'd commit
>>696930995
I could ask you the same thing.
>>696930995
>Why are religious people so stupid?
Shit, try atheists. motherfuckers are so stupid they can't even prove that god doesn't exist
>>696930995
>tfw predominantly atheist countries in Europe are sjw cesspools
>>696930995
Why be the fedora Lord OP? How old are you?
>>696933544
I'm 73. now put the vape pen down and go outside for once this week.
>>696933484
>Tfw predominantly christian america is redneck fat dipshits who dont know basic math or history. (and yes, im from america, its fucking horrible). Religion is the reason the world is as bad as it is. Not just one religion, all religions.
>>696930995
Because religion is based on faith, faith is believing, and believing (as opposed to rationally considering likelyhoods) is a fundamentally illogical way of thinking.
>>696930995
Because they think they aren't.
>>696933851
best argument i've heard yet
>>696933227
can you make oxygen... ? human dont know all the mysteries of the body.. humans dont know shit.. just a tiny piece...and we think were Gods.. like i said.. ill bow to you when you escape death
>>696933742
>tfw Sweden is 84% atheist and shitting itself
>tfw not American
Try again, brisby, lord of fedora
>>696933912
yes, i can. we did it as an experiment in sixth grade. no, im not immortal. just because we all die doesnt mean theres a god in the sky. youre a god damn dipshit.
>>696933912
>can you make oxygen... ?
HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
could you signal any louder that you're homeschooled? that you have access to the internet but have no interest in googling the answers to science based questions?
You are willfully ignorant, and it is because you're a religious fuckwit.
>>696933912
Oxygen is actually relativly easy to make. Take water and apply a direct current. That's making oxygen. Otherwise you need heavy duty fusion, which is possible, but not ecomically feasible.
>>696933851
>yfw Einstein, Newton, and Feynman were all believers
>>696933742
Actually, a fair bit of the US is non denominational and atheist. Why even mention Christianity?
>>696933912
we can make oxygen. All you have to do is split for example an H2O molecule into hydrogen and oxygen
>>696934269
>yfw the smartest people hundreds of years ago believed the earth was flat. Being smart in a science field doesnt mean you cant be religious. Being religious doesnt make you stupid, it just makes you wrong.
>>696930995
We're not. You ignorant atheists just refuse to listen to anything except the lies that neckbeards write on personal blogs in their moms' basements.
>>696934492
>yfw modern genetics and the theory of the Big Bang were developed by Catholic monks
>>696933851
>>696933896
Humans are inherently illogical beings.
>>696934269
Do you think they based their scientific theories on belief, OR on math, research, and consideration of probabilities?
>>696934695
yet most religious people (at least where im from) still believe the big bang is a lie and evolution is bullshit. What I hate about religion is how unaccepting of scientific proof a lot of religious people are
>>696934927
That you can blame on people taking holy texts too literally.
>>696933851
yep, that's why there are way more theist scientists than atheist scientists
>>696934702
But they are also capable of logical thinking.
Religion is a deliberate pursuit of avoiding logic.
>>696935077
i know. that's why scientists like newton, gauss, galileo, ramanujan are all idiots.
>>696935077
Logical thinking is something people need to be taught, though. As is critical thinking..
people believe in god because they are afraid of hell. church's exist only for money and power. god is a lie. god isnt dead, but im gonna get that bastard some day.
>>696935296
Being wrong or stupid in one thing doesn't mean the same person is wrong or stupid in everything else too.
Such bait.
Why do atheist assume they are smart?
Inb4
>Cause i don't belive in imaginary people, HURR DURR
>>696935592
Insecurity. For some reason even though they proclaim "cause I don't believe in imaginary people, HURR DURR" they feel the need to justify themselves.
>>696935296
All of those scientists' faith were a product of the world they lived in. You won't see many atheists when disbelief is punishable by death. How about making a real argument instead of a weak appeal to authority?
>>696935592
im a nihilist, i dont believe im smart. i just truly dont believe anything else is out there. we're here now, this is it. why is that so crazy?
>>696933298
we are not the ones that have to prove god exists because you faggot-niggers are the ones caught in the non-neutral position.
>>696930995
Matthew 7:5
>>696935186
this doesn't contradict my argument. religion has always been anti-science. it's the people that think that they can disprove god with logic are who are stupid.
>>696931955
Grow up
>>696932658
What a gay
>>696931977
Why do people think generalizing groups of people, who are put into a group for the sole sake of a generalization, ought to not be generalized?
You're an idiot not to generalize.
>>696935820
the burden of proof falls on anybody who makes a claim. If you were to claim that god exists, then you need to provide your reason for that. if you claim that god doesn't exist, then you have to provide proof as well.
although, to be fair, neither side should be able to do this. religion isn't science in as much as math isn't literature
>>696931955
I will agree that they are both equally incorrect, but Islam is far more dangerous because they've never had a reformation, or at least they've never had one that introduced any Enlightenment-like values.
Christianity already went through it's angsty teenager phase, and is more or less harmless now.
>>696935872
Good one. Fucking told that guy. Bam.
>>696932658
His love makes the Marquis de Sade's most sadistic,perverted, fetish fantasy look tame by comparison. "Let's engineer a universe in which entropy forces all matter towards an inevitable heat death! And let's tie the self aware bits of this universe to entropy in such a way that they cannot even exist without increasing entropy as a function of their biology! Oh Me that would be hilarious!"
>>696936292
The problem is that you can't prove the negative. You can't prove something isn't there. You can only prove when something is.
>>696930995
>>696935824
>You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Nigga, you just got schooled by the Bible.
>>696935781
the only scientist that I listed that didn't have the luxury of freedom of religion was galileo. everyone else was born after the age of enlightenment
you didn't put much thought into your response. did you?
>>696936593
>expecting insight from people
Nigga pls, it is wrong now, and it's been wrong since 12.000 bc
>>696936593
Proof that Jesus and his apostles were the original NWA. Niggas dropped some sick lines.
>>696936510
You can prove a negative, retard, it's just much more difficult.
The notion that a claim must be proved true rather than proved false is a gentleman's agreement. It's not logically mandated that you can only prove things true and not false.
>>696936292
yes that's true what you've said but if both sides are able to make a claim then the default or neutral option would be the one without the burden of proof, and thanks for clarifying to me what it was called again, it's been a while since, I've been familiarized with the term.
>>696937007
but youre trying to prove something isnt there where the rules of the thing you are trying to disprove mandate that it cant be disproven. its impossible to disprove. it doesnt make it real.
>>696935838
> it's the people that think that they can disprove god with logic are who are stupid.
>disprove god with logic
Of course you can't disprove "god" with logic, but that's only because the concept of "god" is fundamentally illogical and lacking definition to begin with.
That's why discussions about the existence of "god" eventually always fall apart into arguments about semantics and definitions.
>>696932123
>Attributes natural processes to his god
>Insults you for not being able to escape nature (yet), and praises his god for it
1/10 for making me reply
>>696936510
exactly. the irony is that for as much as both sides feverently claim that the other are zealots. neither side can actually provide proof of their claims. and its completely anti-scientific because it just becomes an autistic circle jerk
>>696936812
Freedom of religion doesn't mean much when the majority of the population follows a unified faith that persecutes minorities. And until the 1800's it was unthinkable to openly declare yourself an atheist without instantly losing your job, your friends, and your entire community. It was worse than being a practising homosexual.
>>696937170
I'm not religious, asshate, religious people aren't capable of making logical posts. I was correcting your shitpost which was a logical fallacy. I'm honestly not in favor of retards being allowed to claim the title of 'atheist' for themselves.
>>696937214
fucking, this man.
the question is, given that, why do people still argue on these threads if its all for shit?
>>696937346
Also keep in mind that Einstein was a total beta and absolutely did not have the balls to take any controversial stance. He did however certainly consider religion as culture rather than epistemology/telling of existence.
>>696937581
It's kind of what we do here. An endless rhetorical hamsterwheel of bullshit that doesn't fucking matter.
>>696930995
I don't think they are.
They're just like regular people, except for the cancerous ideas placed so deep inside their psyche that, for most, there's no hope of excising them. And it'll probably be only pain for the rest.
>>696932123
The law of your god?
where is this god and why isnt he enforcing these laws?
cause theyr total bullshit
natural law is the only real one that exists for real.
the res tare just man made to control the masses.
masses like you who belive becasue they have the "fear of god in them"
fucking sheep
>>696937581
>why do people still argue on these threads if its all for shit?
Because trolling is a art.
And because religions still 1) piss people off and 2) cause people to get pissed off, worldwide every day. It's a topic that incites emotions.
>>696937214
You can't disprove god because god has no scientific or logical definition. You can however disprove the existence of anything relative to this universe that is capable of committing a contradiction, which I assume religious people would argue their god is capable of.
>>696937346
this true, but if any of those scientists actually had atheistic tendencies there would've been historical evidence such as letter or accounts from close friends. it's more than likely that these men genuinely believed their faiths.
>>696934269
Feynman was an atheist ya dingus.
>>696930995
I'd say it isn't so much about stupidity as it is about disagreement about basic fundamental acceptances. I, as a Christian, have the fundamental belief in a triune god, who brought existence into being through his sheer will. That being said, my views on what is possible and what happened in history will no doubt be different then someone who doesn't share these fundamental values.
>>696938377
Many of these men believed something common to many intellectuals back then, 'Deism'. It means that they believe some power, whether it be a god or a natural process, had the powers attributed to god/gods and created the universe, but has since disappeared or is otherwise apathetic about the goings on of the universe.
>>696937849
yeah, but why perpetuate it? it's like we're going backwards with this shit, and people are just reveling in it
>>696932123
Please do not judge all non-religious people based on this one ass that is calling you stupid.
Some of us just do not fully understand religion, and I apologize for these assholes.
>we don't hate you.
>but we don't understand your reasoning to believe In a god.
>>696938835
Human nature? The simpler parts of our brains enjoy repetetion.
>>696938665
Also, take example of the fact that Christians have absolutely zero understand of what existence even means in context of logical thinking (the poster quoted). A Christian saying that something exists could not be translated to a logical or mathematical equation, it's literally nonsensical, emotional gibberish.
>>696937581
Generally, I come to these threads as an agnostic to police logical fallacies and argue against scriptures. I don't argue against the possible existence of a god or gods or something similar to that idea, but I heavily disagree with people who believe what is taught in their religion. God exists? Okay, I'm fine with that. God made or directed men to make the bible? Massive bullshit.
>>696930995
to get to the OTHER SIDE!!!..oh wait
>>696939341
>God made or directed men to make the bible? Massive bullshit.
there's no way you can know that for a fact, though. it's not outside the realms of possibility that God mingles in today's world
>>696930995
Because Allah is better than Adonai
>>696938835
Well people tend to get into this argument IRL too, and "shadow boxing" about it over the internet might inspire people to think of new angles and new arguments on the subject, which may be of good use in an IRL setting. In political discussions, for example.
These days usually if I get into a religious debate about the existence of "god", I just tell people that
>1) I don't believe that I have such a thing as a soul, and
>2) I don't even believe in the concept of true free will,
>so why would I be concerned about the existence of a "god"?
>>696930995
Because religion not only encourages blind faith, it actively punishes scepticism and rational thinking.
If you question their deity, you're a non-believer, a heretic, a sinner.
So really, it encourages stupidity and drives away intelligence.
>>696939744
There's the whole argument of evil thing against it. Shitty things happen without a reason, to people who don't deserve it.
>>696939341
God (i.e. magic, non-logic) when best defined to a mathematical, logical system is an impossible claim. Saying that the possibility of magic existing is above zero is closer to the stupidity of being a Muslim or a Christian than it is to the intelligence of being atheist.
>>696939979
oh, yeah, i think you are talking about epicurus' poem. right?
>>696939293
I am not sure of your point. We cannot yet quantify pain, yet we know it exists in different types and at different levels. We predict that other colors appear even though we cannot actually perceive them. We even assume the existence of specific people thousands of year ago without definite proof.
>>696939744
< Pic related. Given that, why would a god care? Assuming that he does care, however, why would he allow so many dissenting religions that each have their own stories and racial memory filled with proofs go at one another so viciously? If this god does exists, it's not one that loves you. It's not one that's worth worshiping.
But ignoring all that, why if the bible is gods word, would he allow it to contradict itself and contain so many 'facts' that are disprovable once you have a sufficient view. Ultimately, if god at some point directed people to create a religious text, which one is right? Where is the cut off point for what humans have added? How much of his word has been changed? And for that reason, the religion based on that text isn't trustworthy, if it even contains any truth at all.
Simple explanation OP. It's no different than any other group that has taken a position about social/religious/political/gaming/etc. view.
By mocking/degrading the "opposing" side, they feel it validates their choice. They then feel superior and justified.
>>696934702
Anon said typing on a machine that would be impossible to create without the ability to decipher how the world works
>>696940074
But it's not zero. Magic is the name attributed to any phenomenon that isn't understood. For instance, if you were to set up a movie projector theater in 17th century England, the people there were likely call it either magic or witchcraft. Even if you take magic as it's considered in mythologies and fiction, it varies so widely in its uses, mechanics, activation, and so on that there is no consistent, 'This is what magic is, without a doubt.'
An often considered theory is that the god or gods that were worshiped, assuming they existed and interacted with human events, belonged to another civilization, likely not from Earth, that had sufficient technology to be called magic by the people at that time.
>>696940647
Actually we can quantify pain, certainly not independently or perfectly, but we can. And yes, there is a very large segment of the electromagnetic spectrum that our brains do not turn into color, but those photons still exist.
It's very clear you do not understand my point because nothing you said even makes any sense. I don't know you would bother saying my post doesn't make any sense (despite it being concise and easy to read) and then go on to argue some other shit (is your argument that we have a difficult time defining things sometimes?).
Either way, the point is you don't understand physical concepts like relativity and existence, or even hypothetical arguments in context to logic and its relation to our own reality. When you say something exists, it is not the same meaning of the word for when a mathematician, logician, or scientist were to use the word, in which heavy levels of math and reasoning are involved.
>>696930995
Because circular logic
>>696937994
I feel like the majority of the ten commandments are still followed today because they make sense. I mean granted some of them are just fucking stupid. But I don't steal because its a dick thing to do and I don't kill because its even more of a dick thing to do. I also don't fuck my neighbor's wife because that is just being a cunt.
>>696941397
To be more exact, the idea that anything relative to this universe could cause a contradiction (logical fallacy) then whatever that is could not under any circumstance exist relative to us, per the very definition of the word existence.
Christians, I would assume, would argue that god could do anything, even commit contradictions and logical fallacies. Therefore, it is functionally impossible.
>>696939808
But both are the same god, just different names from different languages. The muslims take everything written in the old and new testament (at least the new testament as it was around 500AD) as fact with a small change: They believe Jesus to be a prophet, not the son of god, and revere him as a prophet.
>>696940829
point taken. I have no fucking clue, bud
>>696938184
So I do not believe in god but I have always thought about it like this. If god existed he wouldn't have to follow any of the physical laws that we have discovered because he would be above them. Again don't believe but that has always been my take on it.
>>696932146
>Islam isn't a religion
>>696942043
Agreed. Was just nitpicking a little bit on what constitutes magic, as a lot of the miracles of the bible, if there was no other possible mechanism, would be considered magic, but just about everyone are currently possible, or according to our knowledge theoretically possible to replicate with the correct technology.
>>696939293
Actually, there is quite a lot of evidence pointing towards God. Physical exsistance is quite a hard thing to explain by logic alone, everything coming from nothing then simple chemicals, minerals and energy smashing into eachother to randomly form life, the most precise and complecated mechanism in exsistance. I mean, walking around in nature, have you ever found a car or bicyle or suit of nano-armor that was created purely by nature? And all that shit is a lot less complex (maybe not the nano-armor) than a simple bacteria or fungal cell.
>>696942252
Well, that's my goal. Thanks for not being an asshole.
What bothers me about religions is that they all seem to imply that the realm of the deity is somehow beyond our comprehension, which is silly because we invented all that shit anyway.
When you die, your body is done, but your existence, the "being" at the helm of your mind and body, is a form of energy that cannot be destroyed. It is a function of the universe, your body is merely a vessel for this and the combination of the "cosmic software" and a computer on which to run it (the brain) creates a being with a consciousness.
>>696942261
Two different sets of physical laws cannot interact. If you do not obey the laws of our universe, you cannot interact with this universe. That is simply logic.
>>696933484
>>696933742
>>696934086
>>696934269
>>696934492
>>696934695
Tfw
> I have no face.
>>696935592
Because the people opposing us are people like you.
>>696941693
We can sort pain into arbitrary qualifications i.e scale of 1-10, we do not have a unified unit of pain. My point is that stuff exists even if one cannot accurately subjugate it to current logical and physical tests. For example, we predict that viruses existed in the year 1661 even though people had no clue they were there
>>696942342
>everything coming from nothing then simple chemicals, minerals and energy smashing into eachother to randomly form life
How about you come back to this thread after you get at least a B- in your high school physics class, because that is honestly the most retarded thing I have ever read in my entire fucking life.
>>696932146
Almost every organized religion is a political ideology. A lot of what they follow, telling them to make war on nonbelievers and many of their limits are in the old and new testament as well. The difference is that, in general, Jews have never been popular enough to spread their religion and Christianity has been around long enough to have an secular enlightenment. Islam has yet to have a secular enlightenment, so they still take everything written as truth, with any contradiction being decided in favor of the newest passage.
>>696940829
From your questions, I can tell you never really tried to find authoritative sources for the answers. Great atheist talking points though. They have been posted on comment boards forever. Seems like no one cares to learn anymore. Do your own research. If your "smarter" than the average religious person, it should be like kindergarten for you.
>>696942583
I think you miss understand what I'm saying. I believe that if god existed and is as all powerful as religion says he wouldn't give a shit about physical laws. Besides we know so little about what is actually out there and how things work in extreme circumstances, like at black holes the laws of physics start to bend to and extreme.
>>696943000
Yes, stuff exists that we don't yet know about. About a month ago we discovered a new fundamental particle, but we don't yet know anything about it. To then say that because we don't know of everything that exists that there may be the possibility of a god is wrong, considering god is logically impossible.
>>696943013
Okay, then give me a basic course in abiogenesis. Cause I believe that is the basic premise. Basic elements fuse to form molecules, sometimes these molecules form other structures with other molecules, some of these structures form specific carbonous residues which we entitle amino acids. That's a far as it goes. Amino acids are not proteins, even if they were, who cares? Wires, plastic, metal and glass do not make a television set.
>>696943123
Those are rhetorical questions. The answer to the whole collection, that should be obvious, is: You can't trust a religion to be the true word of god. The only thing you have telling you it's the word of god is another person telling you so. If that's the case, then how can you trust that it wasn't a person that made it? You can't.
But going back a little bit to a point I already stated: I'm not arguing for or against the existence of god. It's not something humans have the technology to determine yet, and may never have it. I'm only arguing that the organized religion based around a text, especially one that contains so many contradictions, shouldn't be taken as truth.
If you believe there a god out there that loves you and wants you to be good, and will punish you for being bad, that's fine. But when you follow a religious text that tells you that another person who doesn't hold your same beliefs should be punished, that's when it becomes a problem.
>>696943473
Okay then, explain to me why God is logically impossible. You do not have to provide citations as that shit is hard and slow to do.
>>696943181
No, I understand what you said. What you don't understand is what I said. Two sets of physical laws cannot interact under any circumstances. You cannot be relative and exist within this universe without following the fucking rules. No one and nothing is above that. Even if we don't have a complete picture of the physical laws, we still have a strong understanding of how relativity works.
>>696943123
>I don't have a real response so I'm just going to tell him to go do research
>he actually thinks that that argument may be valid, he doesn't even know other people have used it
>lol atheits get new arguments
This is you.
>>696943696
I'm not going to provide you a course in abiogenesis, fuck off. What you said earlier clearly showed a complete misunderstanding of basic physical concepts such as matter and energy.
>>696943877
God is logically impossible in that the physical laws of our universe, as we understand them, makes God impossible. However, there could be an entity outside of our universe, therefore not bound by our limitations, that could be a god. But because logic as we know it doesn't exist where physics as we know it doesn't, logically God doesn't exist.
>>696943877
I've said this like three of four times already in this thread, but anything that can commit a logical fallacy and break our laws of physics cannot exist relative to this universe, per the definition of existence and relativity. If you claim there exists a hypothetical thing that can cause a contradiction, then it does not exist in this universe, and probably not any universe.
>>696944200
I dont mean to insult you bud, I just want to now why you believe that abiogensis is a resonialbe answer to life existance. I am willing to assume that ,y understanding of abiogensis is flawed.
>>696942342
So, basically the tornado in a junkyard analogy? Even if the odds are incredibly low for life to have occurred on its own (and we don't know that's the case), it's bound to happen eventually given the amount of time the universe has existed. If you've ever heard someone say that a billion monkeys with infinite time and typewriters would eventually type out William Shakespeare's works, it's the same principle.
>>696944058
He didn't have an argument. He had questions he didn't have the answers to. And thus used his ignorance to formulate a conclusion.
Complex issues cannot be discussed to any competent degree in such a board such as this. Just like any topic you wish to truly learn about, you must find appropriate study materials, and even a teacher.
>>696934927
This shit. I have faith in God but I also believe in science and logic. Following anything blindly is retarded
>>696930995
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>>696944612
There's only one real theory on abiogenesis. Creationism is not a theory, it's psychopathic lunacy on a level I'm too intelligent to even comprehend.
>>696944975
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>>696944253
Understandable, however i believe that you view physical laws as immutable and constant. I, as all religious people do, dont hold to those beliefs. God has designed and created a set of rules to govern his creation, it doesn't mean he is constrained by them. For example, you can design a world in virtual reality or in your mind, but the rules of those world dont affect you. Maybe not the best example but its the best i got.
>>696944898
>I have faith in God but I also believe in science and logic
And by believe, you literally do mean believe in science, because you do not have the capacity to understand logic like intelligent people, otherwise you would not be religious.
>>696945187
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>>696930995
It's not that the religious are stupid, but that the stupids need religion. The anthropologist Julian Jaynes believed that consciousness as we recognize it is only about 4000 years old, and that prior to this people made moral choices based on the voices of the "gods" which reside in the left language centre of the brain. So people today who lack the sophistication and intelligence to develop an abstract, internalized moral code (a 4 or 5 on the Kohlberg scale or moral development) need to have a religion in order to be properly socialized.
We should all be very grateful that these religions exist, since in their absence all the religious nutjobs would have *no* superego control over their most base, animalistic drives. We'd be overrun with sociopaths.
These religions are all which stand between us and cannibalism, rape, and genocide as the cultural norm.
>>696943696
Basic course: The time between the earth's formation and the first records of life is about a billion years. Across an entire planet loaded with all the elements we commonly come across with, with lightning strikes, heat, water, random chemical geysers and so on, over the course of a billion years. Eventually, a group of molecules, by chance, forms into something that through some process creates a copy of itself. Overtime, minor issues in the copy, because this process isn't perfect, give rise to something you can start to call life. The first organisms, maybe for hundreds of millions of years, contained no dna, nucleus, or particularly useful organelles or similar structures. As they replicated, they occasionally picked up extra bits. These extra bits served some purpose, but weren't in every cell.
At some point, along this line of chance evolution, a molecule formed that, when given the right materials, would form other structures with some level of reliability. That's the first RNA. As time goes on, lots of copies fail from picking up the wrong things or missing something useful. Overtime, though, the RNA becomes more complex and chances across structures that make the cell more successful. From that point on, it's just evolution. In lab environments, with a mixture of amino acids and other useful molecules, when hit with a charge of electricity, cause random processes based on these molecules that exist in cells.
>>696945303
Yes, I am clearly insulting you. I am not going to have a legitimate argument with someone so far retarded as you are. And yes, it does make me feel good, I'm well aware.
>>696945434
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>>696935872
this
>>696945622
Forgot something: That's assuming that the life arouse on Earth. If the seeder bacteria came from space, then you have the whole of the history of the universe to create a first proto-cell.
>>696945635
>admits I'm right
>calls me retarded
??????????
>>696944776
I consider that point, but i make the assertion that the chance it could happen, and happen in a place where it could be safe and viable, is such a vast improbability that it is for all means, impossible.
>>696942279
what he meant was that islam is not JUST a religion, but also a political ideoligy
>>696945319
They are unchangeable by an existence bound by them. If something bound by the laws of physics could change the laws of physics, as they changed, the something would lose its ability as it was able to change the laws only while bound by the laws it was originally made with.
What I was saying was that a god would not exist in our universe, because to do so would mean being bound by the laws of the universe. The ability to change the universe would most likely, if it exists, exist outside of the universe, either with its own different set of physics or none at all.
The important effect of this would be a singular consciousness that because it is outside of the universe would, in its interactions with the universe, be able to change any and every moment and point in time and space simultaneously, given that within its own constraints it has the power to do so.
>>696930995
why are non-religious people so stupid?
>>696945319
There is no room for a creator, all laws stem from one universal law: that logical contradiction is impossible.
Even then, let's say a god could create a universe (an entire other logical fallacy not worth getting into), he couldn't alter our universe in any way without changing our physical laws, which has never happened in the history of the observable universe. If god wanted to change our universe, he would force massive changes on the rules of our system.
>>696944879
>questions can't be an argument
They're obviously rhetorical, you moron. You can use questions to poke holes in someone's argument, and if you can't answer the questions, as you apparently don't want to, then the argument obviously can't stand up.
>>696946632
No idea...
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Finally I'm an oldfag guys. >;^D
>>696944253
>God is logically impossible in that the physical laws of our universe, as we understand them
we do not fully understand the physical laws of our universe
>>696946463
>laws of physics
they aren't actual laws. they may change if exceptions are found, which is how science works
it is impossible with our current understandings to disprove the existence or prove the existence of a god.
i choose not to believe in a god simply because there is no proof, but that does not mean that a god cannot exist.
>>696942342
For abiogenesis, see: >>696945622
For everything else: The universe starts with a mass of subatomic particles that quickly form into protons, neutrons, and electrons. Those then form into very small atoms, almost purely hydrogen. Over the course of billions of years, clouds of hydrogen, then heavier elements, gain enough mass to ignite a fusion reaction. The hydrogen then forms into larger atoms. A sun our size gets to iron before it can no longer sustain the reaction. A sun far far larger than ours, a long time ago, and likely quite a few of them at that, formed the heavier elements on earth. These elements, by the laws of physics as they are, are able to combine into molecules, which are the simple chemicals and minerals.
The watchmaker's argument, however, is flawed. Given enough time on an infinite plane with infinite resources, a 2013 model honda civic will eventually appear in perfect working order. The chance of this, however, is so infinitesimally small that it is not likely to ever happen in the entire course of the universe.
It wouldn't be as crazy to suggest, however, that a rectangular piece of wood could grow around a couple mushroom shaped rocks and form a rudimentary cart.
>>696930995
>Because you keep seeking out and finding the stupid ones just to support your immature, edgy, idiotic atheism phase.
>If you're lucky you'll grow out of it.
>/thread
>>696945622
the seeder idea doesn't answer anything though, even if life did survive re-entry, and environments on an alien planet, that life would have tot have originated somewhere and we are back to the original question of wither abiogensis is a directed or a random process, or if abiogensis is the process at all.
To random abiogensis, I get that basic premise, my point remains is that carbonous residue floating pointlessly in a viotile soup of acids, bases and extreme temperature and pressures is not condusive to creating complex replicating structures. That seems like a hostile enviroment
>>696947338
In science, theory and law have made some annoying issues with people who don't recognize an alternate definition. A scientific law is considered a law if it has been around for a significant amount of time; up to that point, it's called a theory no matter how proven true it is. The law of gravity was referred to as the theory of gravity until a significant enough amount of time had passed without it being disproven.
>>696947085
Do you even logic dude? If he had the answers, he couldn't use them to "poke holes". Only those that don't have the answers think this is a valid position. He can get the answers, but he and you refuse. Keep clinging to the idea that you are all intellectually honest.
>>696947992
Nigga you dumb?
>>696947856
yes but the fact remains that scientific laws can be disproven through evidence. we dont have that evidence, which is why we assume it is true
>>696947750
>That seems like a hostile enviroment
To modern life, definitely. To the original life that would have evolved to live in it, no. For a proof of concept, see the Miller-Urey experiment.
>>696948122
I rest my case.
>>696947750
The seeder idea was only mentioned because if considered, it expands the time frame for abiogenesis for the life that eventually resulted in modern terran life from 500m-1b years to almost 10b years.
While I understand the concerns of a hostile environment, that doesn't have as much of a limit on abiogenesis as someone might guess.
For instance, there is life today in areas that, until we found that life, were believed totally unlivable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile
>>696947992
You ever heard of the Socratic Method boss man?
>>696946463
I disagree, we can make rules, alter them or not even follow them, an omnipotent being could easily do that too. For example, i walk into my room, and drop my keys only to find that they float up onto the ceiling. This doesnt change your life, nor alter the rules governing a star 2 billion light years away, just me for a moment. A moment that could never be proven, yet still happened.
>>696948607
That is not what he was doing and you know it.
>>696948298
But I've also stated, almost every time at least, that my arguments are based on the laws of physics as we know them. Since we have yet to have these observations proven as untrue, or not always true, for all intents and purposes it should be assumed that they are true.
The reason for this is such: If the laws of physics say that light will always go straight, barring a breakdown of the proton, without outside interference, such as interactions with other matter, energy, or gravity, then that's what we have to work with. It's possible that given enough time or distance, the light will suddenly change its course at a perfect 90degree angle. But because we have never observed that to be the case, we must assume it to not be the case.
>>696947992
>if he had the answers he couldn't use them to poke holes
NO FUCKING SHIT. Why would he ask the question if he had the answer? Of course it's a valid position, until you provide some sort of answer. We aren't going out of our way to try and prove God exists. You guys are. If all you're going to do is go 'hurr durr go do reserch and find out' then why the fuck did you even reply?
Jesus Christ tells me to love my neighbour and do good.
That pedophile goatfucker tells me to kill my neighbour and do shit.
>WHYYYy r relgionsss so EVUUuuUULLLLll????????????
>>696948932
Actually I didn't even read the conversation so you could be right.
>>696948902
If your keys were to have floated up, an easier way to do that than to change the laws of physics, even locally/temporarily, would be to use a mechanism that obeys the laws of physics already.
For instance, in very limited circumstances, the effects of gravity can be negated to a very small degree, as can inertia. These very rare, semi-isolated phenomenon are the basis of technologies and concepts, currently being researched, that may eventually result in a device that can create pillars of gravity or completely negate inertia.
>>696930995
I think calling religious people stupid is stupid. Faith and intelligence are two different things. Fuck Islam doh.
>>696948411
I get the concept of extremeophiles. All I am saying is that the chance of all the conditions being randomly assorted to create support, and replicate such life is so minimal as to be impossible. To that end, I support the idea of a creator. Can you see my logic, even if you disagree with it?
>>696931287
/thread
this.
>>696949814
Christianity is just as bad as Islam
>>696947992
I'm the person who originally wrote >>696940829
As far as I know, not a single question I asked has a known answer, certainly not a commonly known answer.
My first question was: Why would a god care if our world is so small compared to the universe?
The potential answers to that are very numerous, but which is the actual answer? If you know, please tell me, because no one else will know.
My next question was: Why does he allow people to kill each other over who believes in him correctly?
Do you know of anyone who knows god's motivations, with anything near proof more than, 'God has spoken to me!'?
Following that, I asked how one goes about determining whether a religious text is the true word of a god, and not something made by man. I suggested that, assuming it was made by god, either he's incompetent enough to allow contradictions, or at some point his word was altered or extended.
Please, oh master researcher, tell me where you can find any of those answers, and I'll concede that I was wrong and you are, in fact, correct.
Expectorant platitutes!
>>696949474
God does work through the systems he created, why wouldn't He? But if he wanted to temporarily alter or subdue these laws, and if he is omnipotent, easy or hard would be irrelevant words. Thanks for talking with me bud, i needed to chat and you made me think about some stuff. I got to go now but thanks for talking with me.
>>696949815
Actually, personally, I don't disagree with the idea of a creator. As far as debates like this goes, I only argue against things like evolutionless creationism and belief that religious texts created and perpetuated by sometimes corrupt men are the word of god/gods.
>>696950907
Ah, well then I think we are very aligned in our beliefs. In value if not in application.
>>696950821
But who is to say that they are omnipotent? They may very well by so powerful as to be almost indistinguishable, but as far as anyone knows, to change physics in one location might require it to be changed uniformly. Even a god who created the universe could very well be severely limited in his interactions with our universe. But more importantly, if even one tiny part of our laws of physics as they are (not as we know them) were to be changed, the results could be a pandora's box. For instance, if the planck constant were to be changed in value, protons everywhere would no longer interact with the rest of the universe as they currently do.
>>696950907
also, you like the band Rush?
>>696930995
Here is your (You) OP , you can go back to playing mommy and daddy with your nigger friends, what a fucking cuck
>>696930995
Because they try to explain religion to dumber people like yourself and waste their time.
Do you come to this board to intently learn complex subjects, or to bullshit and troll?
>>696950545
See
>>696944879
>>696933694
How was the Civil War
>>696951786
While /b/ isn't a good choice for it, I do come to 4chan in general to have discussions, and when someone proves me wrong (As in, actual evidence or at the very least probable alternatives) I consider them and keep them in mind. But more than anything else, I think you've missed my point: I'm not arguing for or against the existence of a god or gods or how they present themselves. I'm arguing against any religion based on a book that is as self-contradictory and/or flawed as the bible that is considered the word of god. In my personal beliefs, I'm somewhere between agnosticism and deism. As far as actual arguments about the potential existence of a deity, I try to dismiss logical fallacies and serve as a devil's advocate. If you feel I'm not understanding you either, then let me know how.
>>696930995
because religion is stupid
/thread
>>696936866
>HURR DURR IT'S OLD SO IT'S NOT TRUE
Mentally retarded people like you are atheists in a nutshell
>>696931287
/thread
>>696951560
alright, i was just gonna walk outside and get drunk but i like talking with you. Those are all maybe's, just cause i crack an egg in one place doesn't mean all eggs crack. Is God omnipotent? Well, cant say i'm altogether sure, but I am decently sure that if he constructed space and time he could alter it as he wished. Or, plan ahead and warp events to favor his outcome. For example, a volcano explodes in south america, causing a series of geographic, oceanic and stratostrophic events to occur in a storm which drifts over the wastes of egypt, and cause a flight of migrating quaills to fall and die near the camp of wandering Jews led by Moses. I mean, could he have just summoned birds and gave them to the jews, sure, but he choose not to.
>>696936866
It is generally incorrect, but does contains bits of wisdom and morality.
>>696945635
>I'm too smart to have an argument with you
0/10
>>696947648
You fucked up the greentext and you /thread in your own post but the contents of it are ok.
>>696930995
Same reason atheists are - both are closed minded bigots that believe they are right, when in actually no one knows either which way.
They aren't. Many of them do brilliant things.
They're just emotionally broken to the point where religion is one of the few things that relieve the pain of existing.
>>696952690
I sort of walked into the realm of philosophy on that last tangent, but food for thought is always nice.
But at the same time, suppose a situation like what people were convinced would happen with the large hadron colliders. Speculations ranged through a number of phenomenon, including blackholes and new universes. Suppose, then, that the universe was an accident of another species with sufficient technology to create it. Just because they were able to create the universe, doesn't mean they understand how to interact with it.
But if the creator or creators had designed the start conditions so perfectly to result in something like that, then it begs the question of why engineer things so perfectly for one group of people? If it's generally done for most groups of people, a creator with that much foresight should be able to see the problems it would result in between different factions. If they're apathetic towards these people who are suffering because of their intended eventualities, then the only remaining course is to assume a creator that by human ethics is an asshole.
What I believe to be more likely is that a creator who is outside the universe wouldn't nitpick in such a way for any group of people, unless it was for entertainment; if it's a singular entity with a singular identity. However, a singular creator and other entities who can interact, or a group of creators, would be far more likely to explain the huge differences in religions, and the pantheons of gods. However, that still boils down to our entire existence being purely for the entertainment of another species or entity. If it's for research, then they've done a pretty sloppy job mucking about after the universe was made.
But again, all just conjectures. Also, while I don't listen to Rush specifically, I do sometimes listen to a couple of their songs.
>>696949040
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
All of that is found in the bible. So, you were saying?
>>696954806
Is that old testament stuff, parable and shit?
I haven't heard any witches and shit being roasted in america recently. Although loads of moslems are roasting jordanian pilots and moslem hypocrites and apostates.
>>696952578
>moral codes made thousands of years ago by barbaric goat herding Jews who thought that the death penalty was an adequate punishment for lying, coveting, and working on a certain day totally hold up today you guise
It's not wrong because it's old, it's just a product of its time. People back then were wrong about a lot of things. We probably still are wrong about a lot of things today, but at least we know more than we did thousands of years ago.
>>696955260
The person I responded to was putting the Quran down while simultaneously applauding the Bible. However, in both old and new testament, it says to kill nonbelievers. Both religions are bad for their text, Islam is worse because it follows its text before its country's laws.
Also, new testament:
http://biblehub.com/luke/19-27.htm
>>696946632
Do me a favor and try finding a SINGLE shred of evidence to support your assertion, friend-o.
>>696954490
I assume that the universe, life and ultimately humanity were created for a purpose. Those who allign themselves towards their purpose would find more favor with their creator then those who did not. The question of morality is a tough one. But, if we assume that God is all powerful and has a definite personality with his own values likes and dislikes, then it would be a fair assumption to assume that he would be the arbitor of any moral basis. Sadly, I also believe that humanity, in a certain point in their creation or their design, fell short of its purpose and turned agianst the creator for the chance to become gods themselves and create their own moral code. While we do have the ability to construct a moral code, we failed to become gods and so as we are imperfect by nature so are our arbitrary rules. That is why we see so much difference and fluidity in human morality. God's rules are static. They do not change, even though our interpretation and understanding of them changes.
>>696949040
>pedophile goatfucker tells me to kill my neighbour
Numbers 15: 32-36
As for the "Jesus = good" bit, I agree. The problem is that the vast majority of Christians also get nice, hefty doses of hatred from the Old Testament, which is almost always the subject of the vile churches in this country.
"I like your Christ, but I do not care for your Christians, for they are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
>>696931480
>To be fair, Islam is far worse than Christianity.
Learn to history m8
>>696951612
kys
>>696954490
Which songs do you listen to by them? I am a huge fan on limelight
>>696956918
But why should we be bound to their purpose? If there's no inherent benefit for humanity, than humanity should work towards its own benefit. The only reason to do as a deity says would be fear. You could argue that, as our creator, he is owed something, but that argument is inherently flawed. We never asked to be created, so to thrust a debt on us for that would be like a parent expecting their child to be their slave, or like someone showing up at your house, putting in a pool, and charging you for it. Either way, it lends no value to following gods rules, so ultimately it's just fear. However, if an omnipotent entity needs to use fear, then they are either cruel/vain such as they don't deserve respect or they, or they are not truly omnipotent.
>>696952578
>>696957517
Mostly just the Moving Pictures album, but one or two other things on occasion.
>>696931977
>Why do people think broad, sweeping generalizations of large people groups are smart ideas?
Because people tend to self-select their *group*
>>696957707
Because it is our purpose. By ignoring what we were ment to do is to substitute what is real for what we want, and the bible says that our hearts are inheriently evil. I dont believe God is evil, God granted us a world without human suffering or human death, we even were allowed to become immortal (the other tree in Eden). We were to be stewards of the world and worship him. We will be still granted this, lonely if we ask and accept his forgiveness. Assuming we have a true purpose, if we opposed it, our lives would have no value.
>>696934429
>Actually, a fair bit of the US is non denominational and atheist. Why even mention Christianity?
Because people from the other "bit" get their fingers on The Button from time to time...
>>696931480
This.
Anyone who says Christianity is as bad as Islam is just an islam apologist.
>>696958899
You are right, we never asked to be created, but we were, for a reason I think. And serving God doesnt suck, sure your body may be tortured and martyred, but if you assume that you are a duality of spirit and body, such loss is trival compared to the big picture. And even if it did, it would still be our purpose, and I believe that life with a true shitty purpose is better than no real purpose.
>>696958899
The bible, written and edited by man, says the men's heart are inherently evil. That's more a piece of propaganda to encourage the masses to do what the religious text pushed forth by the religious leaders say than anything else. But the only crime humans committed to lose their promised land was to gain knowledge. So long as they had no knowledge (thus like animals), the god would take care of him. But to obtain knowledge was a desire that god would've have either have intentionally placed in them or otherwise have known about (unless he's be incompetent). That's nothing more than setting up a trap.
For instance, suppose someone were to be psychologically conditioned to have their arm twitch whenever their leg was touched. You then put them in an environment where they'll always be taken care of, with one rule: they can't let their arm twitch, or else they'll be kicked out. Suppose they're avoiding touching anything with their legs, then in their sleep, their blanket touches the right spot. Suddenly. their arm twitches. They are then thrown out and given full blame for doing something they were told not to do, even though they were programmed by the rule maker to do it. That's sadism, another quality that makes a supposedly omnipotent deity undeserving of respect.
>>696959567
But the purpose of life is to replicate and adapt. The goal of sentient life is knowledge and comfort. Someone who is altruistic, without serving a deity, seeks to raise all peoples regardless of their faith. Someone who is altruistic, while serving a deity, either finds themselves betraying their belief or serving only their own faith members.
The best thing about believing in God is that if we're right, I get to stand at the gates of heaven and watch all the atheists when they realize they fucked up
>>696930995
Why are they stupid?
Or rather, are they stupid?
>>696960894
That's a nice plan, but in general, most religions give a far greater punishment for believing in other gods over believing in none. If you're wrong, you're in hell. If I'm wrong, I'm in purgatory.
>>696960894
>The best thing about believing in God is that if we're right, I get to stand at the gates of heaven and watch all the atheists when they realize they fucked up
The best thing about being an atheist, is that I get to live a full and free life, and when I die, laugh at the religous people who watsed theirs and lived it in fear because of some false promise...
>>696960040
" That's more a piece of propaganda to encourage the masses to do what the religious text pushed forth by the religious leaders say than anything else."-
To what end though? Jesus said so love and obey God, spread his word peacefully, feed the hungery, provide for the poor, treat prisoners with respect and heal the afflicted. The only part I could see is his orders to tolorate earthly kingdoms. (until he returns to undo them)
As to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, That is a good question. I dont really know. Maybe because we were desighned to be his avatars he had to test our obedience. Why did he give us an option to fail? Maybe because if we had no option of failure we could not be fit to be his avatars in this world (created in his image).
>>696954033
kinda understand. Can't imagine how my parents will keep going on without fairytales.
>>696960600
That is what i thought too, as all life seems to share that attribute to keep production going. But we predict that the enivitable future of this universe is destruction through entropy. Thus i needed to look at other alternitives, as the hope for a purely biological agenda was doomed, and probably unpleasent along the way.
Christanity points to a salvation, not only from the doomed universe but from myself. As i started to emerge myself in it, a lot of the crazy stuff in it and in the world started making sense
To control the population. Rules on sex significantly lowered the transfer rate of STD's, for instance. But a person isn't likely to listen to someone telling them, 'Too much sex gets you sick'. However, if their god says they go to hell for it, they're far less likely to do so. Religion can also be used to raise devout armies that fight with much more fervor, because dying honourably in battle for their god means they get paradise. But if they're a coward, they go to hell.
However, on the knowledge tree test: Assume we were to be his avatars, representatives, or however else. God has screwed up a lot of times, and his answer is to kill a bunch of people and start over. If one mistake on our part was worth a punishment like that, then it goes back to vanity and incompetence. He managed to screw something up, but blamed his mistake for his mistake rather than blaming himself.
But finally, here's a phrase Jesus is recorded as saying: http://biblehub.com/luke/19-27.htm
Just because secular governments are ruling over Christian countries doesn't mean Christianity is less fucked up than islam-trash.
Same goes for Judaism.
>>696962360
Christianity is more of a false hope. A true hope would be to rely on advancements in science in technology to eventually find a way into a different universe, reverse entropy, or otherwise remove an entity or space from causality.
>>696962623
Yep. Look at Israel. Since their formation, nearly every war they've engaged in was started by them or by muslims that they has oppressed to the point of uprising. But the important part is: They've always won, but still play the sympathy card, while simultaneously treating even the most secular muslim like subhuman scum. They don't do that to a christian's face because they're afraid of losing their backing.
Essentially, if you're in a religious led country, you better be of that religion.
>>696930995
Meh, I've met smart religious people and dumb non-religious people (and vice versa).
>>696962368
>recorded as saying
By...?
>>696962368
We screwed up not God and jesus says our works are dirty rags there is nothing we can do to get his praise olny cults tell you that wworks are reqired for salvation
Christian Terrorism is always in the news.
They're radicalized terrorists
>>696963179
One of the disciples that wrote the scrolls that eventually led to the bible. I linked to a website that contains the actual specific version I was referring to, out of the new testament. If you take any of the stories or teachings by Jesus from the bible, then you have to take all of them.
>>696961504
When you die, there's nothing after, so no, you don't get to laugh at anyone, because your existence has ended
>>696959332
idk man all the religious wars that fragmented europe and killed millions of people were kinda a big deal
>>696963193
God created a flawed being that couldn't follow his rules. He then punished that flawed being for its flaw. How is god not at fault for making the being flawed? It's like blaming a boat for sinking, but you didn't use anything to seal the gaps.
>>696962652
That was tryed rread up on guy called nimrod
>>696962623
> doesn't mean Christianity is less fucked up than islam-trash
Nope, it doesn't mean that. That Christianity is less fucked up than "islam-trash" is purely incidental.
>>696960894
You wont get to stand at the gates if you continue to judge those people so prejudicially
>>696963445
>When you die, there's nothing after, so no, you don't get to laugh at anyone, because your existence has ended
Accepted. I shold have written - when I'm on my deathbed..
(Assuming I have that kind of death of course)
>>696963445
Brain is active for a few minutes after death. Maybe he'd be laughing then?
>>696930995
>yfw ur religion isa meme and instills in u a slave mentality
>>696963558
Free will if we coulnt not choose to listen to god theen we are slaves and he never punished anyone
Who listened too him
>>696963561
He was associated with the tower of babel. That's about the only relation to my point I can find, but that's not an advancement towards perpetuity. That was a tower built to reach the gods themselves.
>>696962368
>http://biblehub.com/luke/19-27.htm
This is a quote taken out of contex as Jesus is sharing the parable of the nobleman and the three trusted servants. This quote is from the nobleman (God) who is announcing that all those who oppose his reign, or the feeble faithful do not use their gifts (faith?) to glorify God are doomed.
I would disagree on the sex or even unclean food example, a person getting sick from physical interactions is far more believiable than saying that a god said so. People were ignorant in many ways back then, but they werent stupid and they were certainly skeptical.
And i werent say that we were created defective, I would say that our defections were implanted with our first sin. Adam and Eve were paragons of hummanity, but they choose disobedience of their own free will. He still provided them a world, the knowledge of technology to protect them (skinned animals and gave them clothes) and even provided a plan to give his laws and even himself to rescue them and their spawn.
>>696949814
> Faith and intelligence are two different things.
They're polar opposites.
>>696935592
Atheists have as much blind faith in, for example, no god, as theists do in a god
>>696964068
Yes a"tower" build by gods to reach God and kill him made out of the most advanced technology of the time man always trying to build something to make themselves a god
>>696964359
We don't have 'faith' in rejecting a claim.
>>696963492
when did those happen? How many hundreds of years ago? Islam is a problem today, christianity isn't.
>>696964586
I have never once heard that version of the story.
1.Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
2.They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar.
3 And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”
4 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
5 And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.
6 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
7 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.
8 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.
— Genesis 11:4–9
They simply sought to reach the heavens. For their ambition, even without a single mention of malice, god sought to destroy their ability to be united.
>>696964586
It never talked about killing Yahweh. He just threw a temper tantrum and destroyed man kinds work because he's a whiny bitch.
>>696962652
That is a good point, but it doesn't fix humanity. It doesn't cure our destructiveness, greed and senseless hatred of each other and ourselves. I believe that we are more likely to destroy ourslves before we ever attend to loftier matters . I agree though, science is useful, it is a gift and we should use it to steward this universe and world and mitigate damage and destruction to the natural systems. But immortality, even if acheived by humanity, still leaves us grappling with ourselves and with either bestial or arbitrary purpose
>>696930995
How is christianity likely to be weaponized?
>>696964258
You're right. I had read a decent part of the story, but not the opening. The prophet Jesus had positive teachings. However, Christianity looks for a lot more than just his teachings. It also takes what his disciples, even years after his death, write down as the word of god. A lot of that, however, is the negative parts of Christianity that make it a poorly religion. However, the various accounts of Jesus' actions and teachings are also contradictory, making it hard to know what was truly his teachings.
>>696965484
>The Crusades.
>>696965348
Technology isn't too far from being able to preserve the human mind outside of a biological body. At that point, the greed and destruction no longer has even an understandable reason. At that point, it is hoped that either people would abandon those ideas, or the offending parties altogether. However, religions, especially with how often they change, serve just to divide humanity, encourage hatred of others for pointless reasons, and waste large amount of materials and time on war and prolonging the suffering of humanity in general.
>>And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth make name in heaven .become a god and you find the malice is found in jasher not in the bible most bibles but you can get it from the very act or nimrods actions towards god
>>696966005
i say we cut to the chase and just bring them back
i've had quite enough of muslims and their nonsense beliefs, attitudes and actions
islam is toxic
>>696930995
>Why are religious people so stupid?
cause they are religious.
>>696966005
anything a little more topical?
>>696965082
What is saying your going to become like god through man you kinda sound like someone in the bible i shall acend above the clouds and become like the most high
>>696966308
Only so long as those Crusades aren't Religion A vs Islam, but instead a secularized removal of a violent, self-perpetuating mass-delusion.
>>696966475
The Irish bombing the shit out of each other for 70 years, perhaps...?
And they're two "Christian" tribes
>>696966211
But dosnt the hate of religions do the same thing comunist russia, babylon,germany nazi era
>>696967422
You mean cults they dont have the gospal right at all
>>696967422
that's politically motivated because of separatists, christianity is only incidental in that case.
>>696965688
I know i said i wouldn't ask for citations, but with Christ giving contradicting teachings i must insist. His disciples gave testimonies or those who knew Jesus or the disciples gave testimonies which were collected, shared and filtered by the early churches. The testimonies that were deemed most credible were brought into one book.
>>696967432
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.
In Russia, the Tsars before the revolution and Stalin afterwards would exile whoever didn't do what they said. The religious were one group who, because of their religion, found problems with the goals of their leader. The easiest solution in modern history? Remove the dissenting thought pattern and punish it's reappearance.
Babylon had its own mythology/religion.
Nazi Germany was very heavily christian; they simply followed the passages that many people today don't.
>>696967432
>But dosnt the hate of religions do the same thing comunist russia, babylon,germany nazi era
ANY validation of people by their "tribe" is going to lead to bad things. That's the whole point really...
>>696967422
Also ira was a globalist terrorist organisation stared by an american who invented those marry tub things people put on there lawns
>>696967737
>You mean cults they dont have the gospal right at all
Wut
Protestantism and Catholisism are cults now?
>>696946234
Perhaps the same could be said of ALL religions
>>696967815
>that's politically motivated because of separatists, christianity is only incidental in that case
Other way around. The religious divide started first...
(AND the IRA killed more people than died in 9/11) Funded by muricans of course. Cunts
>>696967949
It's not direct contradictions in the sense of, 'On July 4th, 20AD, Jesus was said to be in Rome and Nazareth' but more of a, 'Jesus was said to have said two opposite teachings at one time. It's a result of none of the bible writers ever having met Jesus, and never having expected to be compared to other, anonymous writers.
Thread's almost over, so I don't have the time for deep research, but this article should give you the idea of what I mean.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124572693
>>696968504
Extension: Basically, they wrote down stories that were passed from person to person orally for decades. Many stories get lost and many more get made up when stuff like that happens.
>>696968211
Yes and they always where they reqire works to be saved the gospel that paul taught says no works they are following peter when they where directly instructed to follow paul they where created to controll people not set them free
>>696966211
To what end though? Trapping one's brain in a jar or attempting to encode someones personality into digital code isn't a cure for destruction or moral failure. It is only a way to extend one's exisistance for whatever reason. And i believe that looking at current events and previous history will support the idea that greed and mindless hatred will always coexist with us. We can try to mitigate it, and punish it, but I fear that it will prove impossible to extinguish.
>>696969365
Once in a form where the only need is a small amount of electricity, which can be cut off without death and restored at a later date, actual physical needs decrease so far that the entire population of the planet could have its whole consciousness and power generation in a city sized area. It's a form of perpetuity because if it can be copied once, it can be copied indefinitely, allowing for as many backups as you want. As a way to permanently avoid destruction, assuming the technology, a mind stored as pure information is the best bet to have a recognizable existence outside of the bounds of the laws of physics as they exist in our universe.
>>696968504
Ah, the discrepancies in the four gospels. If you asked four different people about an event that occurred or that they even witnessed, you would get four different stories. Some would have details or be missing details that others had. They all will probably report the same major events, but some things will rejester differently for each person. Like what time of day it was, who else was there, what were other people doing at the time, etc.
>>696970600
So, would you say that your purpose to to achieve immortality and escape destruction?
>>696970861
That it was written by people who never had the first hand accounts is a problem in its own though. When people in a region generally hear only the good stories about a person, and some old guy who actually met the person tells a negative story about that person, it's not likely to be believed, or even remembered. There are also plenty of events that have been attributed in general to the wrong person; even events in the last century, where people have access to the actual information of what happened.
>>696970600
also, you listen to wang chung (warmer shade of cool) or Bruce Hornsby?
>>696971079
Im not that guy but just wanted to add immortality with God without God imortality would suck
>>696966745
We're way more moral than Yahweh. He is a petty asshole.
>>696970861
>If you asked four different people about an event that occurred or that they even witnessed, you would get four different stories.
Of course. But the versions wouldnt be diametrically opposed. Two different people listening to Martin Luther King wouldnt come away with the view that -
1. He was supporting black rights
2. He said that all blacks should be slaves or deported...
>>696931480
>Jews have a somewhat harsh religion
>Some follow Christ who is nice creates a nicer variant of the religion
>Some follow Mohummer who is batshit crazy and creates an extreme version of the religion
>>696930995
>>696931480
With secularism being worse of them all.
Highest death count in history, still claims that religion is somehow a vehicle that is more effective at manipulation than secularism.
>>696971079
Life's purpose is to recreate. A sentient being's purpose is whatever goals they decide for themselves. Ideally, I'd like to live for a couple thousand years, at least, so that I have the chance to explore beyond just our solar system. Immortality for myself could be entertaining, but ultimately it would eventually lead to boredom, unless the cause of the immortality would also chance upon some alternate method of entertainment. Universes where the entity is the god, for instance.
Hell, for all we know, this universe is a breeding vat for the followers of this god. He only uplifts his most devout. Someone like that, I'd want to get to their level to be a better entity than them. For that purpose, I'd rather get there under my/my universe's own power.
>>696970600
How would you store your conciseness though to compile the info to your personality
>>696971650
That is a very misinformed opinion
>>696971886
Means by which we do not know yet. When it's accepted that there is an outside of the universe, it is also generally accepted that there will be, or at the very least, vastly different laws of physics there. It's been theorized that a device can be built into the quantum foam of the universe, which exists even where there is vacuum, and is believed to be the source of the laws of physics. Once outside the universe, either you would pull some form of physics with you (essentially creating a space within which you define yourself because that's the most recognizable form compared to your previous experiences) or you'd be the equivalent of quantum foam or even purer energy, able to interact with a universe without being affected by relativity and causality, as you don't exist within a space limited to that universe where either concept exists.
>>696971697
Those two are hundreds of years apart and not even the same area
>>696938922
....you might not hate him, but don't speak for the rest of us cause I instantly hate him.
>>696972497
And what jesus taught was way harsher read the sermon on the mount in mathew
>>696972555
Why? That's irrational hate.
"You hold a belief. For all I know, you've never once heard a dissenting opinion. For this belief I hate you." It's like instantly hating a child just because they believe in santa claus, or the tooth fairy.
>>696971152
That is true, from what little i know one the matter, the gospels were assumed to be written a good 40 or more years after his death. many of the original disciples were martyred within that time. Luckily (perhaps coincidentally), Jews were obsessed with oral tradition. With people regularly memorizing their bloodlines tens of generations long and could regurgitate vast passages of the old testament. As far as ignoring negative reports, that doesn't seem to jive with the Jews. Throughout the old and new testament, the "righteous" are regularly shown to be regular human scum like us. Noah getting naked and drunk first thing after the ark touches down. Moses generally being a foot dragging pansy. Abraham letting people bang his wife cause he was afraid for his life. Lot bangign his daughters after the destruction of Sodom. Peter and the other disciples constantly irritating Jesus and leaving him to die to save themselves. I would find it hard to believe that Christ would be saved from this as not even Abraham or Moses were saved of bad reviews. Actually, for as much crap as he gets, Paul is assumed to be the first written book of the new testament, 50-70AD.
>>696957388
Yea sure, christianity was responsible for some fucked up shit, a long time ago for the most part. Islam is bad right now. At least the christian leaders have changed with the times, Islamic leaders are still in the dark ages.
