OK atheists Prove to me that there isn't a deity
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
OK atheists
Prove to me that there isn't a deity
i dont have to prove it
because trying to prove it would imply there was one to begin with
>>692485731
So you're saying one doesn't exist
Do you have proof?
>>692485982
im not saying one does not exist
and im not saying one doesnt
im saying im too busy not giving a crap anyone
to care one way or the other
Agnostic here. There is no "proof" one way or another. Just accept that you don't know and move on with life.
>>692485493
Disease, Famine, Wars, Suicide
>what is burden of proof
Logically, you should have to prove that there's a god first.
I can scientifically prove that there is no deity
>everything that exists must have a creator
>God doesn't have a creator
=>God doesn't exist
Of course you can deny all that by saying that axioms are basically dogmatic pieces of rules and data. We can't prove that logical axioms are actually true and we can't prove that God is dependent to those axioms.
You need to have an unchangeable/unquestionable starting point in order to prove anything. We don't have such a point.
>>692485493
i cant prove it but you cant also
>>692487009
Basically,
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted
>>692487009
humans created god
>>692485493
>Can you see it?
No
>Then it doesn't exist
Just like your dad OP, now go be retarded somewhere else.
>>692485493
one cannot provide evidence of a negative. Theists would need to provide evidence of a diety, but they dont. instead they just have blind faith based on a mythology.
>>692485493
You can neither prove nor disproves something that exists beyond the laws of physics, for everything we know is based on physics and our understanding thereof.
What kind of God would make OP such a faggot?
>>692488736
a gaylord?
im bored of this thread
im out
>>692486697
Stressing a species weeds out the chaff. Humans are not perfect. By far, and can only achieve a higher standard by destroying the garbage and focusing on the best.
If it wasn't for all those things. If, for example, humans were immortal, then they would have stopped advancing at whatever point they achieved that.
Think about it. Everything that makes us good and virtuous is a part of being in a stressful environment that breeds excellence. If there was no stress factor on the species, it would degrade to immobile, thoughtless masses of shit.
>>692487009
That doesn't prove anything. One could just as well ask where the fuck all the energy in the universe came from. It was always there? Well, you can say the same about God.
>>692485493
I CANT!
>>692489237
This
My favourite vape flavour isn't vegan there isn't a loving presence in this world
The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim. You say there is a magical man in the sky.
>>692489460
Everything had to come from somewhere and if there was nothing at the beginning then it's impossible for it to be created unless someone created it, like god
>>692489435
Mine is. Rempen
>>692485493
All scientific proofs work without a god. You are committing a burden of proof logical fallacy. The pressure isn't on athiests to prove there isnt a god, the pressure is on christians to prove he is needed.
>>692489597
>being this autistic
did you pass high school
it isnt worth trying to argue
>>692489847
If at the beginning of the universe when there was absolutely nothing how could the universe be created? Smart man
>>692489682
You place a lot of faith in your ideology, just like Christians (who are, by far, not the only religious people on Earth).
On the subject of scientific proof. You simply do not know one way or another. The source of all the energy in the universe can not be explained in any coherent way by modern science. The best it can do is "It was always there" or "It was introduced from an even larger system"
Well, theists believe that larger system is an orderly God of some kind. There is no dichotomy between science and religion. The only perceivable dichotomies you see are ones you see from idiots who can't see the big picture and instead blindly focus on their internalized belief system.
Try to look past the armies of strawmen on either side to the core principles, and you will see that we only want the truth.
>>692489847
>>692490057
You're missing the point entirely. Where did all the energy in the universe come from? Science has no coherent answer to the question. It's all blind faith, and some people see all the order and think it's absurd to think there isn't a larger system beyond the conceivable universe.
>>692485493
4chan still exists. Either your god doesn't exist, or he's evil. Evil may be merely sardonic and lazy in this instance.
QED
>>692489597
That's jumping to conclusions without evidence. Also it's a good of the gaps argument. I think religion has done nearly as much good as bad and I had both a bar mitzvah and a confirmation. I can speak ivrit and even read Aramaic. I know the tanakh backwards and forwards. I'm not an atheist by choice. I just found it all to be horse shit and there is no coming back from that realization.
>What is burden of proof?
>>692489597
So who created god?
>>692490449
This guys smart
>>692489847
You on the other hand are a fucking idiot and I would love to beat the shit out of you right now
>>692490650
Humans are too simple minded to understand the idea of a god so I can't answer that
>>692490586
> I'm not an atheist by choice
Yes you are. An Atheist believes there is no God. So you have a belief system, hopefully based on something right? In your case it seems that it is entirely a rejection of theism, right? Well, you obviously haven't looked that hard at modern science if you are so sure there is no God. A more logical answer would be to be agnostic, since you are at best, not sure.
>I just found it all to be horse shit and there is no coming back from that realization.
What realization? That you don't know the origin of the universe anymore than anyone else, but you choose to have faith that there is no God, which according to your logic would be just as absurd as believing there is one, right?
Look past the religious dogma and just look for the truth, and you'll find that mankind really doesn't know that much relative to what there is to know.
>>692490827
Too bad. You could have won a Noble Prize with that research.
>>692487403
I can't see Africa right now, or anon, therefore both do not exist. Remove yourself in a harmful manner
>>692489847
>HUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRR
>DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
That's the level of discourse that your kind of posts foster, you belligerent toad.
>>692490827
"I'm retarded, so everyone else must be, too"
>>692485493
It doesn't matter what I tell you, you will believe in god, because you want to.
Your thinking is not based on logic, therefore it's pointless to bring up arguments based on it.
>>692491324
this
>>692491259
>>692491324
You have no idea where the energy in the universe came from. You're placing your faith in an ideology just like the people you are trying to vilify and discredit.
That's unseemly.
>>692485493
Becuz Jesus is a hipster fag?
Just smoke DMT OP, see dieiteis yourself, and never be bothered by beta atheist faggots or religious faggots, because you would have seen in person how deep the rabbit hole goes.
>>692491474
"Prove to me"
Burden of proof... logical fallacy
but logic seeme not to be your strong point, huh faggot?
>>692489847
>>692491050
>>692491222
>>692491259
ITT knowitall name callers ur no better than a 5 year old mocking someone with an annoying voice
>>692491737
are you faggot? Maybe reddit is your place
>>692491737
Inb4 name calling, would be very surprised if someone could come up wit plausible answers
>>692491220
The fact that Africa exists proves there is no god.
>>692491680
What are you even talking about? Did you quote the wrong post? I never said "Prove to me" I made statements of fact, which hold true.
Again:
You have no idea where the energy in the universe came from. You're placing your faith in an ideology just like the people you are trying to vilify and discredit.
If you believe there is no God, then you must have some reason, right? Because the fact is that you don't know, and since you don't know, you should say you're agnostic, but instead you are choosing to say you believe there is no God.
What is that belief based on? Faith that there is no God? Well, how logical is that by your standards?
>>692491835
Called it, I'm so distraught by ur comment anon it hurts so bad
An intelligent God would have never created a digestive system, or even a body for that matter.
Every single one of you is a fag.
can you prove that africa exist?
Yes.
Can you prove that energy exist?
Yes.
now someone prove that either god or the big bang exist/Did exist.
Also agnostics are the biggest fags bc they don't have balls to say what they think or belive.
>>692486697
This is not an argument against the possibility of Gods. What about Greek Gods, Hades? Gods can be evil.
>>692487009
This is the best argument IMO against Christianity. Christians will argue
>If the universe exists, then it must have had a creator
But they exclude Jesus from the prerequisite. Their premise would suggest that God had a creator, thus requiring more Gods. If you can exclude God from requiring a point of creation, why does the Universe require a "Y" to have created it? Akum's Razor.
>>692487403
Do you mean to say you feel a God's presence? Which God do you feel? Jesus Christ? Because if you were born in Egypt in 2100 BC you would feel the presence of Amum and several other ancient Egyptian dieties. If you were born in Iraq you might be singing praise to Allah. The only reason you believe in Jesus Christ is because you were born here, now.
>>692485493
Which god? There's literally thousands to choose from.
This question is trying to play on the concept that "The absence of evidence is not the same as the evidence of absence".
To this I say HORSE SHIT! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Also, of every mystery ever solved, god or magic has never been the answer. And there has never been a single case where something we thought initially had a natural explanation actually turned out to be the work of god.
I think what most of you "Atheists" fail to understand is that God is the unborn and unknowable. The Beginning and The End. He is not the words on paper or on your screen or irrational sermons by some cult leader. He exists beyond all of that.
What many of you have a hang up on is words and rhetoric by other humans who may have an entirely failing idea of God.
You are becoming enraged, angered, and annoyed by humans and their symbols, not by God, who is beyond human understanding. In much the same way that a starry night full of the depths and wonders on cosmic scales might seem like a black canvas pricked with light to some.
>>692492224
I belive you
>>692492628
>I think what most of you "Atheists" fail to understand is that God is the unborn and unknowable. The Beginning and The End. He is not the words on paper or on your screen or irrational sermons by some cult leader. He exists beyond all of that.
And yet you only believe that because of words in a book.
>>692486949
I'll accept your defeat.
You're no different than the fags from the Triggering who don't have to defend their arguments anymore. Just throw out catchphrases and buzzwords...won't work here
>>692492628
I'm tired of grown adults playing make believe.
>>692492224
Well, dude, if someone really feels that they don't know, what's wrong with saying they are agnostic? Isn't that a bit better than going into atheist-rage and claiming without a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist, when that is impossible to know? It seems entirely reasonable to say "I don't know" if someone really feels they don't.
>>692489103
So what you're saying is that God, the being who makes no mistakes and is perfection, made something that wasn't perfect?
>>692489460
The claim that there isn't a God is made by atheists. Buzzwords and catchphrases won't work here. You've admitted defeat that you can't prove he doesn't exist, thanks for that.
>>692489682
And yet if I go to bat with a Muslim the burden of proof is now on me to prove that he doesn't exist. I don't just get to sit on my lazy fat ass and poke holes in everything they are saying without lifting a finger to do any of the work.
You can't prove he isn't real, thank you for your admission of defeat. Good day
>>692492724
>And yet you only believe that because of words in a book.
You are entirely incorrect. I believe because of empirical observations and my understanding of modern science.
You're blinded by your ideology. I dare say there may even be some hatred there. You should look for the truth yourself, son.
k
>>692491971
it's obvious you are faggot OP
energy in the universe ≠deity
You believe in a deity: burden of proof is your problem.
and maybe define "energy of universe"
>>692485493
thats not how it works, you're supposed to be the one proving there is one
What kind of god would create niggers
>>692485493
I'm an apathiest. It's not that I don't believe in a god, I just don't care enough to believe or not. The question of the existence of gods is neither meaningful nor relevant to my life.
>>692485493
I can barely make sense of reality, who am I to say there is, or isn't a God?
I just prefer to not waste my time thinking about something so above my comprehension.
>>692493174
Ok, I'll bite. What 'empirical observations' and 'modern science' have lead you to believe this?
>>692493372
This, also I believe in God because if there is one I don't want to burn in hell and it's not that hard to just pray every once in a while
>>692493285
No, we don't. We accept on faith. Prove there isn't one, otherwise your atheism is just another form of faith.
>>692491680
the person who resorts to insults first has lost the argument.
Sorry bud, triggerwords and catchphrases won't work here. You can't prove shit, we accept your admission of defeat.
>>692492947
Prove that ghosts don't exist
Prove that unicorns don't exist
Prove that leprachauns don't exist
Prove that gremlins don't exist
Prove that the skies arent full of invisable pizza floating around everywhere
You can't go around asking people to prove that every possibility of everything doesn't exist. Maybe I'm not atheist because certainly I accept that I cannot prove that the skies arent full of invisible pizza that cannot be sensed or smelt or felt or eaten, although I consider it to be absurd that anyone would believe that. Although if you believe that isn't the case, then I ask you to prove it to me. OTHERWISE, YOU LOSE! I ACCEPT YOUR DEFEAT. You cannot prove the pizzas arent in the sky, therefore you must accept that it is possible.
That's what religion feels like to me, and people trying to argue that gods may exist.
>>692485493
>There is a God
Prove it
>The events in my holy book
So now we reach the real request, "prove my holy book is lying"
OP, please state your holy book(s) of choice so that we may begin dismantling them and disprove each part of the book that claims divine intervention or existence is at fault.
>>692492874
I don't think you fucking get it, bro. Your field of view is entirely tunnel visioned on rejecting Baptist Protestant Christianity. Wake the fuck up man, there is a world of religious thought. Some with wildly different opinions on the nature of their gods.
Some people who believe in God, see past all the dogma and rhetoric and look for answers to major questions without being fed a pile of shit from someone claiming to know one way or the other.
>>692493219
>>692493285
>>692491680
OP can't handle logic, but want to discuss "logically"
>>692492865
Still fags.
Let me explain.
John thinks that god exist, and that is ok.
victor thinks that god Doesn't exist, and that is ok.
if john and victor shut the fuck up about that they belive the world wouldn't give a single fuck about it.
Kim doesn't know if there is a god, and doesn't care. That would be acceptable.
But if kim claims that she is right about not knowing, she is way worse than edgy faggots because she is not even trying.
>>692493311
This guy is a fine example of "I don't give a fuck" that is ok.
That's not how this works. It is the responsibility of the theists to prove there is one.
You can claim that there is a planet of purple horned dragons a billion miles away. It isn't my responsibility to prove that claim is not trure.
osama bin laden is the only true god
>>692493219
once again, insults=admission of defeat.
thanks and good day
>>692493219
I'm not OP, and your logic or reading comprehension seems to fail you.
The enrgy of the universe is just that. All the energy in the universe. Some of it condensed into matter in its many different states, some extremely energetic as electromagnetic radiation. An entire spectrum of spectrum of energy all over. Are you blind or just closing your eyes to the truth?
>>692493285
you believe that there isn't one. you won't say it, but that's what you believe. you likewise cannot prove anything more than OP. You lose friend.
you faggots right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooDcstIm6Qc
>>692486603
This is the only valid belief one can have
there's nothing wrong with not having answers but it's important to side with the most logical side that has the best points so accusing people of burden of proof is just dragging the argument down and we're not gonna get anywhere
>>692493699
fag op: no arguments and overchallenged with logic-> defeat... nigger
>>692493511
The bible is in fact a more reliable document than atheists tend to believe. You cannot discredit it when so much is already widely agreed upon by historians. sorry fella.
>>692494036
>>692493492
No. We accept it on faith. That's what faith is. Because there's philosophical substance to the notion of an intelligent creator. Pizza in the sky is absurd.
We're not saying you have to believe with us. We're saying, "Prove that I shouldn't believe."
>>692485493
In current climate of scientific discovery we know so little about our universe and what created it that there is no absolute proof that discredits or credits belief in a God. However with the sheer amount of different conceptions of God the statistical probablitablity of you workshipping the "right" God be it Abramic, Simulation, Aliens, every religion every invented, is ludicrous!
I rule out most traditional religions due to lack of evidence like Islam, Christianity, etc. But I don't discount the existence of a being who is a "God" to us. I just haven't seen any evidence or proof of one existing yet, until I do I can't believe in it well that'd be foolish.
>>692493390
>>692493174
Still waiting.
>>692493390
I'll give you a summary, since it's beyond the scope of this thread
>empirical observations
All the coherence and order in the universe. Life itself, and the evolution of the species.
>modern science
Modern science has no rational explanation for where all the energy in the universe came from. It's just as valid and makes more sense to me that there is a greater system beyond our conceivable (conceivable instead of observable, because we already know there is much beyond what we observe) universe, which some may call God.
I'm not preaching the rhetoric of any specific religion. As a religious scholar, I've synthesized the religious beliefs of dozens of contemporary and historical religions and taken what I see as the wheat and separated it from the chaff. I've done the same with our understanding of science and the material world.
I'm legitimately looking for the truth, unlike most of the people who are simply trying to validate some previously held internalized conviction based on blind rhetoric. Stand up and wake up and look for yourself. If you really do, you'll be happy that you did.
Deities and gods are our arrogance and our inability to answer the mal-formed questions about life and existence. Some people would rather settle for a bullshit answer than admitting we just don't know.
And these deities always have some kind of human representatives speaking for them. Millions of human representatives all telling a somewhat different story.
Believe as I believe, or suffer the consequences. Sounds more like a scam to me.
>>692493492
I do not get to sit on my lazy fat ass and make no effort to tear down any claim that everything Muslims say about their God is totally and utterly false. In order to do that I'd have to get off my high horse, dig a little, and do some research.
Your argument, and every argument of any atheist I've ever encountered, think you have to do no work. You're lazy, you use catchphrases like "burden of proof" and "self-fulfilling prophecy" the same way faggot use "racist" "bigot" and "homophobe" to avoid having to have their beliefs challenged.
You have beliefs, you won't state them because you can't prove them. You therefore lose. At least the Christians/Jews/Muslims are out there making a case for their beliefs. You poke holes in arguments and yet can prove nothing on your own.
That is why you lose, that is why I accept your defeat.
>>692493748
energy≠deity
We sound like a bunch tumblr bicuriousunicornaircraftcarrierkin with all these "deities" and "atheist" we're no better then the tumblr fags ITT
>>692489237
energy wasn't there "before" the big bang because there is no such thing as "before the big bang". Energy as we know it started to exist with the big bang. Energy isn't eternal. OP's concept of god is.
>>692493618
>It isn't my responsibility
Nah, I'll just sit here on my fat lazy ass and poke holes in everyone's argument and try to disprove it. Even though I don't believe it's real to begin with.
k bro
>>692489435
Can God create a stone that he cannot lift.
If you can answer this, then God could have an ounce of possibility to exist.
>>692494668
Big Bang is a theory
Yeah yeah Ik "lack of proof" "burden of proof"
>>692494173
90% of religions where polytheist.
>>692494668
You don't get it at all, and your response shows an obvious lack of understanding of our mdoern conception of the Big Bang.
The Big Bang was energetic on a magnitude that most can not even comprehend. All that energy cam from somewhere. Some believe the Big Bang is a cyclic system where the previous universe eventually collapses and created a Big Bang, forming a new one.
Well, none of them have a provable source for all of that energy. Do you understand now? Humans don't know nearly as much as you seem to think they do.
>>692493981
No logic has been presented.
Just a bunch of atheists that can't be bothered from their Halo and Doritos date demanding that all these theists do all the work for them and prove that there is a god for them.
Sorry, doesn't work that way. If you're going to engage in debate you've got to do some work to be taken seriously.
You called me nigger so your claims are no longer valid anyway. Thanks for the resignation, I accept.
>>692494875
In the bible it says that we cannot begin to understand the will and grasp of God and God created humans to be imperfect so whoever wrote that God can do anything may have been wrong we don't know
>>692494897
yeah... like evolution is a theory
faggot has stuck his head in his ass
>>692494259
I have recognized that anon was right, and I cannot begin to discredit him in anyway. Alas, from what catchphrase shall I chose today? I settle upon "bait" until a more opportune one arrives.
>>692494436
>All the coherence and order in the universe. Life itself, and the evolution of the species.
Stars explode, galaxies crash into each other, black holes, 99.9999999999% of all planets devoid of life and absolutely pointless, cancer, birth defects, earthquakes, tornados etc on the one planet that DOES sustain life. The universe is a chaotic shambles.
>>692494308
>Pizza in the sky is absurd
So is believing in a specific God then. What sense do you actually have about believing in Jesus rather than Allah or Amun or Zeus or believing that are universe was created in a laboratory by gargantuans or in faith that the universe doesnt even exist and you are actually some abstract dream occuring within an organism you can't even imagine.
Having faith that the universe was created? Faith in a book? Feeling a presence? Again I go back to history and civilization. People believe in different Gods every few thousand years and you only believe in your God because you were born HERE NOW. If you were born here a few thousand years ago, or born in a different country whose main religion was diferent, your faith would be entirely different. I don't have any interest in putting faith in a religion knowing full well that my faith would be in a different religion if I grew up elsewhere. It seems to show a major fallacy in the whole idea of religion.. shows how it is made up by people and that religion are temporary and interchangeable. I have less of problem with someone saying "I believe in a God or Gods having created the world, but I am not religious because I have no way of knowing what the God may be like or if there are more than one". To me that is the only reasonable "faith".
>>692494403
We would need to sit down and discuss this in a reasonable matter with time to spare, to really flesh this out, son, but I already typed you a summary with the points you asked about.
This isn't really the place for a discussion that could fill dozens of books, and has filled thousands, but I hope you'll look for the truth yourself.
>>692494436
>>692495108
"prove that there is a god for them.
Sorry, doesn't work that way"
---> again: logical fallacy
burden of proof. You can't demand a logical discussion and be illogal faggot
>>692494875
Sorry guy, God's existence doesn't rest on your puny "Catch-22" question. Try again!
>>692485493
Deity?
Here's mine.
>>692485493
ITT: A massive shit eating cocklord of an OP acting like a fucking asshat over menial shit that ultimately doesn't matter.
Pic related, OP's last line of defence revealed.
>>692494436
>>692495354
>Stand up and wake up and look for yourself. If you really do, you'll be happy that you did.
>but I hope you'll look for the truth yourself.
Could you not be so patronising? You're assuming I'm some retard who hasnt given the concept of God a single thought
>>692485493
no can do - but if you prove to me that there is a deity, i'll give you my life savings.
>>692495309
>The universe is a chaotic shambles.
And yet you're here talking to a million people from all over the world, connected with invisible energy, playing on tools you could not possibly make on your own and likely do not completely understand all about them.
The universe is very orderly, and life is an extreme concentration of that order with the capacity to be refined further.
>>692487224
In that case, God doesn't qualify as a deity.
>>692495657
Take it how you will, man, I'm trying to be straight with you.
I believe the fairies did it. Since there is no burden of proof you're just going to have to prove me wrong.
>>692495367
Again: insults = you've lost the argument.
Catchphrases and buzzwords won't fly here. Try actually disproving anything. You can't.
Like the homos and the femnazis, you've become lazy and rely on buzzwords and think you don't have to defend yourself.
If you want to not believe a word I say, then fine, but if you engage in debate, you have to offer us something to go on. You can't just sit there and say "you're wrong" while I do all the talking. Sorry it's not so easy!
>>692485493
if OP has even a cursory understanding of the science he's criticizing i'll eat my hat. why do people form opinions on things that they don't understand? it's like some kind of human race bug
>>692494036
The king James Bible I assume?
It's actually well known for having a number of flaws, contradictions, moral ambiguities. It is also not a single book but rather several books/scrolls that have been combined into a single text. Most, if not all, of these books trace back to human authors and many of those are taken from ancient Judaism. There is also a number of stories, written by the disciples of Jesus Christ which either conflict with each other entirely (the two conflicting stories of his birth) or can be argued to have been mistranslated or having had "artistic liberties" taken or even just having the wrong impression given to those observing the situation.
>>692495906
here's the thing - you're asking for proof when proof doesn't exist. the more important question is, what reason do you have to believe there's a diety?
>>692485493
So what proof do you have that god exists? Check m8.
Also, don't make a fool of yourself by saying the bible is proof. It's not. It's been modified hundreds of times to fit the agendas of various people and organizations in power. It's not the word of god when the only way it's passed around and reproduced is through people.
>>692495759
>Doesnt address any points presented and assumes God created single celled life forms so they could one day evolve and shitpost on 4chn.
>>692494897
>>692495093
like I said in my original post.
Science =/= truth
we make claims based on axioms (pieces of data/rules that everyone agrees to be true)
Noone even tries to prove the validity of these axioms, because in order to prove those axioms one would need even more axioms.
Nothing is "provable". We prove things by accepting dogmatic pieces of information.
We use the word "prove" in the scientific sense, meaning we agree that all the scientific axioms are true, and make claims based on them.
IF one agrees that everything must have a creator, then God, being a thing, must have a creator as well. Then the concept of God that has no creators is FALSE.
IF one agrees that things such as energy exist forever, that they are eternal. It means that they were never created. God is the creator of all.
If there is something that isn't created, than something that creates all can't exist.
AGAIN, reality isn't as simple as we perceive it. Logic is a human invention. When you are a god you don't really need to care about Logic.
Still, I can scientifically "prove" it's lack of existence.
>>692496047
HURR DURR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL
>>692495947
>if OP has even a cursory understanding of the science he's criticizing
This is atheists biggest problem to me. You have the almost pathological assumption that theists don't have the same exact knowledge that you have. Like it literally almost kills you to hold for a second that someone might have a different opinion formed than yours. Mindblowing.
>>692485493
In order for your challenge to even be possible, you must present evidence to suggest there is a deity. As no evidence has ever been brought forth to suggest there is one, proving the non-existence of something that has never been shown in any way to exist in the first place is pointless.
>>692495947
OP didn't criticize any science. It sounds like you're fighting your very own straw-man in your mind to say something like that. He just asked atheists to prove something that they can not prove, which obviously rustles some of their jimmies.
All of this bait...
>>692496277
Just look around you anon, look at the intricacy of it all and come back and tell me a creator isn't responsible for that!
>>692496185
When you think that you have actually had a somewhat intelligent conversation on /b/ and someone calls another person a retard and ur back at square one
>>692496024
Yep, everything you say is true. And in fact scholars have dealt with and reconciled each of the things you've mentioned.
Case in point: conflicting stories often lend credibility to a historical event as each person has a slightly different view. If it were biased or a hoax, you would have several authors from the exact same date in time with the exact same written account, indicating some sort of conspiracy. The fact that several authors wrote at different times and their stories only have slight details contradicting actually lends credibility, at least as far as the gospels of Jesus Christ are concerned.
That's just one example though. Care to try again?
>>692485493
why i don't give a shit what you think
>>692496125
You're being hardheaded on purpose. Think for yourself, m8. If you don't understand that the universe is extremely orderly, then you can just throw out any scientific knowledge you think you have since it's "chaos". If you really believe that you need to think on that some more, son.
>>692485493
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmU5fpVkUQs
>>692485493
Prove that a deity DOES exist. Its impossible to prove that something that has never existed doesn't exist, but if you believe something does exist, you should have your own proof.
>inb4 bible
>inb4 I HAVE FAITH!!
>>692496635
> posts spongebob cancer
kek... this new
>>692496185
HURRR DURR IM AN IDIOT SO I HAVE TO INSULT OTHERS TO HIDE THE FACT I HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION
>>692496047
Proof is all around us. The proof is in the pudding, you may say. You may ignore it if you wish!
And no, I would never accuse anyone of going to hell.
>>692496883
>takes pride on spending long amounts of time on an Internet site
I don't know how to feel about this
>>692496185
I cannot say for certain whether anyone is. Nor would I want them to if hell existed. It is not my choice and I would never say such a thing.
>>692496889
I do it for (You)
and your butthurt
>>692497092
No u
>>692496799
>Continues to not address any points and continues to be a patronising dick head.
If you're such a genius this should be easy for you.
>>692497164
no u
>>692485493
it sounds unlikely that there is one. decide for yourself
>>692497201
What are you even talking about? You're completely in your own little world. What points? Seriously.
>>692494514
How does one prove non existence? You're shirking my question. If you can't prove to me the skies arent full of undetectable pizza, then I can't prove to you that their isnt an undetectable GOD which exists outside of the realm of our universe. I'm not really asking for you to prove the existence of God though, anybody who asks the other for proof should not even be in the discussion. I'm saying Atheists and Theists dont need to prove the existence or nonexistence. But I think there are some good arguments on the atheist side that theists dont have good answers for.
>Akum's Razor. Why does the Universe need to have a creator? If the Universe must have a creator, why doesn't the creator have its own creator?
>Time and Place. If you believe in a religion (not just a God, but follow a specific religious book such as the bible) how do you answer the temporary and geographic nature of religions? If you were born 3000 years ago you would believe in a different religion entirely. If you were born in a different part of the world you would have completely different religious convictions and you would be just as certain of them. Why do you believe in Jesus and not Zeus? Why not Allah or Amun?
>>>692494875 This is a simple logical fallacy which Christians always ignore. They believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing god, yet "all-powerful" is paradoxical. It's a concept which poeple have made up that can't actually exist. Something that is all-powerful would be able to create a stone so heavy that nothing could lift it (including the God itself) thus limiting its own power. Nobody can answer this, the question seems absurd, but thats only because claiming that something is all-powerful is absurd. Nothing can truely be all-powerful.
I think a lot of 'by the book' religious people don't actually bother to answer to these arguments and instead go to "prove he doesnt exist!" instead of answering the simple claims athiests make about having faith despite this
>>692485493
If god exists. He/she would never allow the createtion of a retard like you.
>>692485493
>OK atheists
>Prove to me that there isn't a deity
That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on people making the claim for the existence of something.
>>692497490
Oh yeah I forgot this thread was bait
>createtion
Oh deity my sides
>>692496621
That's just special pleading. The vastness of the Universe isn't evidence for a deity. Nor is the existence or intricacy of life.
>>692497330
>Stars explode, galaxies crash into each other, black holes, 99.9999999999% of all planets devoid of life and absolutely pointless, cancer, birth defects, earthquakes, tornados etc on the one planet that DOES sustain life.
Does this serious scream 'intelligent design' to you?
>>692490650
Nothing created God and Anti-God, together they are nothing, but when not together, they can be anything.
>>692497416
God created humans to be imperfect so it's possible they mis represented what God was
![pennprofile[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6ulN8JH.jpg "pennprofile[1].jpg")
A female orgasm takes 20 minutes.
A male orgasm takes 2.
WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED THAT THERE IS NO GOD?!?
>>692497416
>But I think there are some good arguments on the atheist side that theists dont have good answers for.
That's fair, but having a dug a little into the atheists side of things myself, you get to a certain point where even atheists have to admit that they don't actually know (they won't admit or acknowledge this part). And that's my whole point, Atheists claim to know for sure, when they don't.
Saying that Christians do the exact same thing doesn't refute my point either.
I won't even begin to debate with you on such a ridiculous claims as your pizzas which is so self-evidently not true as to not require argument, anymore than I need to argue with you that the sun is real. Your fault lies in the fact that you think our 5 senses are perfect and the end all be all of proof. As if someone big enough to create it couldn't exist beyond our 5 senses.
I will never prove a single shred of God's existence to you as it is already available to you in abundance. I will always argue that belief in any sort of deity is way more credible than zealous atheists make it appear.
>>692498009
Futhermore all the stories in the bible come from the fact that we are not perfect, God sends his son down to die for are imperfections, Adam was given free will so he could sin and give us the ability to love
>>692486603
Correct, but Agnosticism is simply a knowledge claim. It doesn't say whether you believe there are god (s), just that you can't know for certain.
You eventually adopt a belief position that's either theist (whatever flavor you might prefer) or atheist.
And since you've already made the knowledge claim, you're more likely an atheist, because you usually assume when there is no evidence that something happened/exists, it didn't happen/exist.
>>692497490
Oh look, another lazy atheist who can't be bothered from his Halo and Mountain Dew date.
"Well if someone won't get off their ass and prove this to me then it must not be true! Hmmph!"
because, 9gag exist.
>>692486949
>>692492754
Are you saying you cannot prove a god exists? I'll accept your defeat.
If you cannot prove your particular god exists, then fear not my friend, no one can prove their god exists - because all the evidence is either lousy or non-existent. And, obviously you're not alone in believing in things without evidence.
Religious arguments are cancer, once another person becomes defensive, there is no point anymore... they will not listen anymore.
fuck this thread
>>692496673
Slight details such as the entire setting being different? Those who were greeted by an angel being vastly different as were their reactions? Or how about a genocide against children that was not recorded in any measure other than in the Biblical texts themselves? You almost make me want to put effort into this but I got to be somewhere in a half hour so I'll ask you to take up your world views with someone who spends a great deal of his time pursuing such scholarly debates
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistVoice
>>692498645
Not the guy you posted to, but think of it like this:
I claim that there is an invisible, intangible, pterodactyl on my shoulder.
I tell you to prove to me it doesn't exist.
I'm obviously lying to you, so this should be easy to accomplish.
How would you go about doing it?
>>692490983
Use of obfuscation and relativism won't further your case here lad. I'm not impressed.
Just simply make a decent case for god with some good evidence, and I'll consider whether or not I believe in it.
We can know that faith is believing in something without evidence, so you either know their is a god or you believe there is a god and you may have faith that god exists.
We can KNOW there is no god, because belief and faith is required and demanded in that religion.
>>692498425
I am the one you replied to and thats the point I'm trying to make. Everyone knows you cannot prove the existence or lack of existence of a god though I do think that Atheists belief in a lack of God is slightly better than believing in a God having created the universe because it is a simpler solution to the issue (Akum's razor). Though I strongly believe the all-knowing all-powerful Christian God does not exist because of the arguments I posed eariler. I believe if there were a God we would know nothing about it, nor would it expect us to know about it or care whether we praised it or spited it. I'm not an atheist because I cannot prove a God does not exist, but to me its the same as being agnostic about their being undetectable pizzas in the sky. I cannot say for certain they do not exist. And I really do not think the premise is much more absurd than the premise of a God
>>692497841
Yes, dude, what do you want, some candyland dreamworld straight out of the imagination of a toddler because that's what a Hollywood artist imprinted in them?
It all has a purpose. Humans are being refined. Refinement takes stress on the system, or there would be no incentive to advance.
Look, humans as they are now, are far from their potential. What makes you think creation is over? This is all a work in progress, and your childish complaints aren't even a footnote in the history of mankind in that blessed future of more perfected beings striving to be good co-creators.
>>692499080
>Are you saying you cannot prove a god exists?
Far from it in fact! The proof is literally all around you, there is plenty of evidence. You may draw any conclusion you wish or like! I need not prove to you for instance that the sun is real, you may believe...or not! :)
>because all the evidence is either lousy or non-existent
This a common atheist fallacy. I could provide all the evidence in the world to you that OJ did it, you do not in turn get to say there is none. You do not by any means have to accept it, but you do not get to make the claim "there is none" you see? It just isn't true :)
Wouldn't you know it, a million atheists using the phrase "burden of proof" has actually never disproven anything! Go figure! :)
Sorry you were so badly mistaken about my defeat, would you like to try again?
Knowledge: evidence based. Yes we can know that 2 + 2 = 4 because it is reliably demonstrated easily.
Belief and faith: we can know nothing that requires belief, because faith is required. Faith is required without evidence, because evidence for god is either lousy or non-existent.
Any assertion of an idea without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
>>692499785
>We can KNOW there is no god
You can not. The very idea that you can is completely absurd. And if you can't see how absurd it is, then you're probably too feeble-minded or blinded with your ideology to see the truth.
>>692499785
All you're saying is that you don't believe in a specific deity. You're just arguing against a specific religion, not the existence of God.
And you're insane if you think you KNOW there is no god because that does not reasonably follow from anything. It's just some random blind belief you have.
>>692499182
>You almost make me want to put effort into this
Ahhh, if only more atheists would, then more would realize the absurdity of what they've been saying for so long.
As far as your claim to the setting, not nearly specific enough for me to comment. But your mere other two claims are weak, at best. I will in fact put effort into your claims though and do a little digging, because that's how I get my beliefs. Not just, you know, throwing catchphrases out there to atheists. Thank you for pointing me in a good direction, I'm interested to see what I learn.
>>692485493
>>692499500
Simple! Mind if I ask you a series of questins?
Are you the only one that believes there is a pterodactyl on your shoulder?
>>692500242
>Far from it in fact! The proof is literally all around you, there is plenty of evidence. You may draw any conclusion you wish or like! I need not prove to you for instance that the sun is real, you may believe...or not! :)
Just because things exist doesn't mean a deity created them. That was not an argument. If you think it was, then it was a lousy one.
As far as burden of proof goes, yes it disproves a great deal.
You're making a claim that a deity exists. Show some evidence to back your claim, or we simply dismiss the claim.
If I say I have a flying car, will you believe me? If I say I have a flying car that will make your soul live to eternity, and if you don't believe it you're going to burn in conscious torment for eternity, then will you believe it?
The more claims I make without evidence, the further from truth we get.
I accept your defeat, and have a great day.
>>692500023
Kek I love that you came in here claiming the high ground because of science and your only response is basically 'god works in mysterious ways'. YOU were the one that claimed the universe was orderly and coherent. Then when I point out all the ways it's not you just write back 'Of course it's not perfect, why would God make it perfect'? You have absolutely no science backing up your claims and are clearly guided by emotion and, perhaps, a fear of the chaos and death this life offers.
>>692495888
Trips of truth.
>>692501022
Not the other guy but I am interested in this conversation. I love that your first question implies
>other people believe in my religion, therefore its more likely that its true!
this is gunna be good. Also, he's not the only one. I actually do believe he in fact has an invisable pterodactlyl on his shoulder. Ive seen pictures of fossils and know that pterodactyls do or at least did in fact exist. If they did exist, there is a chance that they still might
>>692501022
I don't know, maybe.
I can't tell you what everyone believes.
>>692500311
There are things we can know, and there are things we cannot know.
We can know that the bible was written by men. We can know that the claims in it are outrageous and without proof.
The bible makes scientific claims about the nature of the world, the age of the world, the nature of death and physiology.
There are many claims in the bible that are later proven to be wrong by science. We can know that if the vast majority of biblical claims are wrong, then the the deity is not so much a deity- He is not omnipotent, or omniscient.
>>692485493
logical fallacy : burden of proof.
/thread
So your God hides in the gaps? Used to be that the sun rising was "proof".
>>692499838
>I believe if there were a God we would know nothing about it, nor would it expect us to know about it or care whether we praised it or spited it.
I can't even begin to follow your way of thinking. I'm sorry, I did try. I honestly don't know what to say other than the reasons you feel strongly about God existing do have the same effect on me.
Believe it or not, I am very much not a troll but believe the existence of God to be an absolutely critical one to my existence. I will investigate any and every angle I hear of, why would I want to waste my time believing in something that isn't real?
If any atheist can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen. As for me, I like to go to the source and investigate the only physical proof we have, which are the texts of the bible. They are infinitely more reliable than any other religious text and suffice to say I'm satisfied. If you are not then you are free to do as you wish.
However do not claim that my beliefs are founded on an absurd belief in a spirit in the sky that I made up one day. 95% of 4chan won't be able to maturely respond to this. I'm expecting more from you.
>>692501565
Upon examination of the bible, we can know that it was written by men for men.
>>692485493
Dear God, please make op die in a fire right now.
You still alive? Proof of no God.
>>692501266
Dubs of confirmation. The fairies did it.
>>692501442
Love it! You avoided the question, I think I've proved my point friend :)
If in this analogy, the pterodactyl is Christianity, then the correct answer is "Yes, millions of people do!"
The next question I would ask would be, "did this belief spring up overnight, or have people believed this for a long time?"
Agnosticism is the only logical position to this question. I can never know if there is or there is not. Live your life, think of the material consequences and have a blast.
>>692485493
Burden of proof in the same way something that cannot be proved doesn't exist until you can prove it.
So I've never really been bothered about the existence of a god.
>>692502142
People used to believe sickness was caused by demon's and they'd drill holes in heads to let them out.
>>692501429
>I love that your first question implies
Haha, I think I proved my point!
I said a "series of questions" so right away your jump to conclusions casts discredit on any point you are trying to make.
Also your eagerness to jump in and discredit my claims when I haven't even begun I think shows more than a little bias! Thanks for the help guy! :)
>Also, he's not the only one. I actually do believe he in fact has an invisable pterodactlyl on his shoulder.
Good effort! The correct answer (assuming he meant the analogy to be pterodactyl = Christianity) is that millions of people do! See how this works? Avoiding the question only helps my cause! :)
How long have people believed this? Is this some new fad that sprang up overnight? Sure sounds like it to me...
>>692501246
No, you're wrong. The universe is fine, it's your feeble perceptions that are flawed, but you will be long dead before God's creation is finished, so you needn't worry about that, you pretentious fool.
You haven't made any valid points in any way. All you are doing is clinging to this idea of a Baptist, protestant, Christian God that you've made into a strawman.
Fuck you, you completely tunnel visioned troglodyte. Fight your strawmen all you want. I was trying to talk to a you like a man, but obviously you're just a kid.
>>692501565
I never said anything about the Bible. You've obviously got some hangup with it though.
>>692501768
We can look all around us and see how belief in eternity is damaging to society.
We can look for evidence of the exodus story, and find nothing.
We can look and see if humans can survive their death, and can find no evidence to support that biblical claim.
We can check if stars can fall from the skies as mentioned in so many places in the bible that it will happen, and we can see that it is absolutely impossible for this to happen. It's an absurd claim.
We can see over 50 failed prophesies in the old and new testament. http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm
Demascus never fell, it only grew larger.
We can know that the hindu religion is 1500 years older.
We can know that the jews were never enslaved in Egypt, based upon evidence.
We can know that once a person is cold and dead and rigor mortis has set in after 3 hours, that it is irreversible.
you cant prove definitively that there isnt one. but i definitely know there isnt a christian god.
>>692502393
Very true!
I can't help but notice you chose to use the words "used to"...did that belief die out at some point? Or do millions of people still believe that today?
>>692501831
kek
Whatever you ask for you shall receive.
Matthew 21:22
Mark 11:24
All you dumb as fuck, pretentious little teenage atheists need to understand that Southern Baptist isn't the only religion. They're more of a fucking cult than anything else. Wake up, dumbfucks. You're fighting a strawman, easy mode, and never dreaming to touch the root of the matter because apparently you've failed to realize the difference between dogma and understanding.
>>692502142
I didn't avoid the question, I answered it to the best of my ability.
And who said anything about Christianity?
We're just treating the pterodactyl as a claim for you to refute, and one should be able to do easily.
And to answer your question, all I can account for are my own thoughts, so I started believing this approximately 20 minutes ago. I'm unsure of when others believed in this.
>>692502682
Well, what deity were you referring to?
>>692485493
that's not what atheists claim
you might want to ask to an anti-theist
>>692502720
1) Your opinion only
2) thanks I'll look into it
4) You fail to mention the many that did come true, how sad
8) also something for me to look into, thanks!
3 &9) the whole crux of the bible rests on these, they are pretty important!
>>692485493
Fuck your troll bait
I came here for that image fucker
>>692502724
>Welcome to the family
>>692485493
Don't believe in a deity but instead and endless pool of consciousness in which we go back too once our physical body ends, nothing happens because of a diety and it's decisions things just happen. Helps me understand how the world can be so fucked up everything is just RNG on a massive scale.
>>692502891
Any pretentious teenage atheist has an advantage over a person with faith or a belief system.
This is one case where the angsty teen has an advantage over the religious person.
>ITT: Faggots who don't understand that agnosticism is the only way.
>>692501768
What I meant by the part you greentexted was that if there was a creator for the universe we would not be able to determine anything concrete about the creator. Organized religion like Christianity or historical religions like Greek Gods or the Egyptian Gods are very much fantasy. In the beginning religions used God's that lived on the tops of mountains, but once mountains were climbed and seas were crossed people claimed God's lived in the skies or the heavens. Religion has moved towards abstraction, as we unravel more about the universe. As anon said, people used to claim God made the sun rise each morning by physically moving it through our sky. The point I was trying to make though is if you follow a book that claims to have stories involving the creators of the universe then you are stepping into fantasy world. Unless you believe that the creator zips into our universe and speaks to people like the "Satanic Toaster Lady". And if you can't know your creator or know why or what may follow in your death, then why worry about it? Why believe at all or be firmly in belief that one can't exist?
The Bible is not "infinitely more reliable than any other religious text". Earth is 45 million years old, the bible is off by 45.999 million years in that regard. Do you believe literally in Genesis and Adam and Eve? Even the time frame of the great flood is historically off by about 5000 years with the nearest major world flooding event.
And as to >my beliefs are founded on an absurd belief in a spirit in the sky that I made up one day. 95% of 4chan won't be able to maturely respond to this. I'm expecting more from you.
It doesnt matter who made it up, or how many people believe in a book, that doesnt make it any more right. When you look at the history of religions in civilization they were used as tools to control people, religion and mysticism meant power in the early days and shamans were the original scam artists. Y should modern religion be any dif?
>>692502603
>Still makes zero arguments based on science.
Sorry son, time to go back to sunday school or wherever your safe space is.
>>692503050
I'm talking about God, which transcends all mortal understanding. I'm not talking about some pigeon holed dogma of an idea. I'm talking about reality. Here and now. Science as religion and religion as science with the objective to find the truth.
I went through the phase you're going through as a teenager and I learned quickly that humankind's understand of the universe is fleeting, vague, and often entirely imaginative.
Somehow energy in all its states, exist, and modern science has no answers, and yet, intuitively most cultures have found the answer in a higher order beyond what we can sense. Well, the more we learn in science, the more we see the system is vastly more complex than we ever imagined. Molecules are actually made of atoms, and atoms, it turns out, are made of other yet more esoteric things. Conversely, the observable universe is gargantuan beyond the realm of imagination, but yet is dwarfed with what very likely exists beyond our ability to sense.
But to the point. You said you KNOW there is no God. That is objectively false.
>>692503176
>1) Your opinion only
No. Belief in eternity fuels martyrs. It's not opinion, it is fact. People believe they're going to survive their death and it changes their behavior negatively toward others.
No one has survived their death after moret than a few minutes. If they have, they will completely rewrite medical and biology theory.
>>692502142
Christianity is only a couple thousand years old. There are religions that have survived for tens of thousands of years such as the ancient egyptian and greek religions. Believing in something just because other people do and people have believed in it for awhile doesnt make your belief any truer. Like I said 3x in this thread, if you were born in Iraq you would just as strongly believe in Allah. If you were born in Egypt in 2100 BC you would believe in Amun with even stronger conviction. You're a pleb
>>692503735
You're just closing your mind because the truth makes you uncomfortable. You're still fighting your own straw-man and you've never even engaged me. Stay blind, for all I care. You want me to tell you God's thoughts, which is something only some goddamned lunatic would try to do. So, stay an idiot for all I care.
You have no idea whatsoever where the energy in the universe came from, and that is an objective scientific fact, and yet you place blind faith in an ideology that you not only don't understand, but can't comprehend, and defend your simulacrum like some lunatic religious zealot. Fuck you, dude, seriously. You're cancer.
>>692503424
I hate you. You know admitting you're not certain about something doesn't mean you can't have a well thought out opinion about it. You boring opinionless fuck
>>692503750
>I'm talking about God, which transcends all mortal understanding
If this is true, then how can you know about it? And if it transcends mortal understanding, why do humans apply their understanding, and editing of the morals in the bible?
Why don't we approve of slavery? We have clearly edited the bible's ethics to suit our needs for a modern society.
Scientists used to invoke god when they came to something they didn't understand or were not able to solve. Now, we know we do not need to invoke god when we encounter something we do not understand. We need to simply work on the problem longer or admit we don't know.
Religious people want to make claims about why we are here, when to ask that question is sort of like asking "why is a rock?". It's simply not a valid question.
>>692503989
>Believing in something just because other people do and people have believed in it for awhile doesnt make your belief any truer.
Hahahaha, this is great! I said "a series of questions"...not two!!! Your eagerness to disprove me immediately I think proves more than enough bias on your part. Thanks for participating!!!
My next question would be, is this belief documented in any sort of text we can go to and research?
>>692485493
Protip: you can't?
>>692504359
Listen son, you've got to wake up if you're going to discuss this with me. I'm not talking about Chrstianity, and I'm just going to start ignoring people who pick out shit from the Bible and act like they're even talking to me or on the same page. You're fighting your personal strawmen, not discussing theism.
In a search for the truth, you find God yourself, but most people can't understand that because they haven't looked yet.
>>692504150
>You're still fighting your own straw-man and you've never even engaged me
Ok you must be a troll. I listed a number of things wrong with the universe in the hope of actually having a discussion and all you reply with is 'you expect me to actually address any scientific points?' 'God's plan is beyond knowing' and patronising bullshit like 'son/kid'. Get the fuck out of here.
>>692503750
>But to the point. You said you KNOW there is no God. That is objectively false.
A close examination of roman history and biblical claims does not make good evidence.
There were a few ancient miracles document decades after their occurence.
Constantine made christianity the official religion of Rome. The Roman empire was expansive at the time.
Christianity and becoming a christian is likely due to your immediate family, community as you would be a Hindu in a Hindu society, or a muslim in a muslim society. People you know and trust are christians, hence you become one.
>>692504337
Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.
>>692502968
>And who said anything about Christianity?
Hahaha, I won't deal with trolls. You cannot honestly say that you won't make the comparison to a deity at a later point. Sorry!
>We're just treating the pterodactyl as a claim for you to refute
Yep! Just as atheists constantly try and refute Christians. These are the questions I would ask!
>one should be able to do easily
Very easily! >I started believing this approximately 20 minutes ago
That's all I need to know! I cannot refute your invisible bird, sir. You are free to believe as you wish. However I know enough to confidently satisfy my own conscience about it.
Unfortunately, the correct answer is people have been believing in it for thousands of years! Sorry this game seems to be stumping you.
>>692504595
If you're not talking about the abrahamic god, then what deity are you talking about?
>>692504163
Yet no truly valuable arguments have been made. What a shame, huh?
In the context of the creation of the universe and the evolution of life, it makes more sense to me to believe that there is a greater system outside of ours introducing orderly energy into ours.
God? A more advanced universe trying to guide us from self annihilation so we can eventually join when we're ready? Who knows, let's think about it.
but it makes a lot more sense that there is something on the other side of the glass if you will, than "Well the universe was just always here and then it exploded and stars formed, blah blah, and even though entropy is a law of physics, we can see order not only exist but advance in life.
It's like people lose sight of the forest for all the trees.
>>692505070
I'm talking about the God that exists, not some lunatic facsimile based stale rhetoric and manipulative dogma.
>>692485493
I can proof to you that any specific deity (Abrahamic Gods, mostly any Hindu gods, greek/egypt mythology, etc.) doesn't exist, but it's by definition impossible to proof the concept of a non-specific deity.
>>692504337
>>692505004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t11JYaJcpxg
>>692485493
It's simple, follow logic.
Never assume anything, the outcome that makes the fewest assumptions is most likely correct
>>692485493
because you exist, that's proof there is no god.
>>692505115
>"Well the universe was just always here and then it exploded and stars formed, blah blah, and even though entropy is a law of physics, we can see order not only exist but advance in life
You can look at the evidence for the nature of the cosmos, because it is there for all to see and read about.
You can read the book "on the origin of the species" and have a better understanding of evolutionary theory.
But, first, you must apply yourself to the idea that you will first examine the evidence for scientific claims about the nature of the world before you can make judgement calls about it.
>>692485493
Can't. But I invite believers to prove that Sagan's garage dragon or Russell's teapot don't exist. And then the theists can explain why they believe in God and not dragons and teapots.
The best and most coherent theories of Modern Science, have yet to come close to a good guess as to the source of all the energy and matter of the universe.
Truly, that is a fact. So when someone says God exists you can't say they are wrong with authority because there is none.
>>692505309
>I'm talking about the God that exists,
Which one? There are millions to choose from and they're equally unsupported. Which god are you talking about?
>>692505607
>teapots.
Teapots in orbit, I mean.
>>692494810
I'm a kitten alien who lives in a pink planet where the ocean is made of Coke
>>692505589
>even though entropy is a law of physics, we can see order not only exist but advance in life
Specify the statement concerning order, please.
>>692505755
You really don't get it, do you?
>>692498541
What you speak of is called Weak Agnosticism. It sounds like a derogatory term, but it actually just implies that you are not heated in discussions about this, rather than content with the fact that there is no way of knowing for sure and that you would allow yourself to be convinced by proof of a strong enough nature to believe that there is a god or gods. If the proof is strong enough to convince you. This is the box i usually put myself in.
>>692504447
>Eagerness to disprove me
Dude, that's the point of a thread. Just type up a list of questions. Of course we're going to make our counters to your implications on each post, thats the point of the conversation.
>Your last question
Implies a book adds authenticity to a belief. There are thousands of sources on the historical and scientific inaccuracies of all the bible and other religious texts. The counter is the same. Followers will say the stories which are proven inaccurate as symbolic.
>>692505015
>I know enough to confidently satisfy my own conscience about it
So if there's not a book, and other people don't believe it or other people haven't believed in it for a long period of time, then in your mind it doesnt exist. Well, nobody can argue that you complicate things. I take it you believe in all the major religions then?
>>692505679
>to the source of all the energy and matter of the universe.
OK, are you making a claim that there is an energy source? I'm confused. If you're making a claim there is an energy source, then you're making a claim that scientists "have yet to come close to a good guess as to the source of the energy" - then it is more baseless claims.
What are you trying to say?
>>692485493
You were born.
>>692505589
You're purposefully ignoring the point. I'm talking about the existence of God, not talking about evolutionary theory.
How do you account for all the energy in the universe? Simple question.
>>692485493
>Prove to me that there isn't a deity
Prove that I'm not a deity. Are the Agnostics agnostic about that?
>>692485493
there might be a deity, i just don't believe in your god
>>692505887
>entropy is a law of physics, we can see order not only exist but advance in life
But, to say that it is intelligently applied by a deity is still huge leap of "faith." It will require faith, because the evidence to back that statement is non-existent.
>>692492628
I am agnostic and I am not angered or annoyed... I just don't care.
I don't feel nor see the presence of an almighty god... And even if I did, well that doesn't close the point because you need faith to keep on practicing. I also find certainly risky the idea of devoting one's life to an uncertain idea...
>>692505015
This has nothing to do with god(s), it has to do with making unfalsifiable claims.
The whole point of the "game" is to try to falsify a proposition that is ultimately unfalsifiable.
There is no way you can prove that pterodactyl doesn't exist.
You were originally complaining about atheists saying that you have to prove god(s) does exist instead of the other way around, but when it comes to such a facile lie like mine you can't even disprove that, only sufficiently justify to yourself it doesn't exist.
Face it, you had a stupid idea.
>>692485493
If there was once a god he probably left us because of /b/
>>692506512
Ah man, I wanted to quote the guy you were quoting. Because that statement isn't correct the way he proposed it.
Prove to me that there is one.
Or prove to me that your ass doesn't hate you for sitting on it all day.
>>692485493
I am your deity.
>>692485493
no.
>>692505115
>Well the universe was just always here and then it exploded and stars formed, blah blah, and even though entropy is a law of physics, we can see order not only exist but advance in life.
This is a stupid argument. On your understanding of entropy, solar panels shouldn't work.
>>692506250
>>692505889
>You really don't get it, do you?
Say what you mean, and mean what you say, and if you're claiming there is a deity, then make your claim, and show some sort of evidence that backs the extraordinary claim.
It is an extraordinary claim to say there is a deity or supernatural power.
Is it any wonder that among our finest scientists, 97% are atheists?
These are people that are actually helping to make life better for all of us, unlike religious people.
>>692485493
Dinosours
>>692490233
>The source of all the energy in the universe can not be explained in any coherent way by modern science. The best it can do is "It was always there" or "It was introduced from an even larger system"
Kek, but believing in a fairy that snaped a finger and created all you see is more coherent?
>>692506898
/thread
>>692506236
You and every part of you (whether you are aware of it or not) and everything else in the universe is made of energy in various states.
Modern science has no possible explanation as to the presence of the energy. "It was always there" is a common faith belief.
Well, WHAT exactly, was always there? Some people see God on the other side of that glass. Maybe God has a whole powerstation full of universes Big Banging in unison driving some trans universal engine for all you know.
There is much we don't know, but I see a lot of order in this system which leads me to the impression that there is something more orderly and coherent and energetic on the other side, not less so.
>>692506350
>How do you account for all the energy in the universe? Simple question.
Simple answer: We can know that religion does not accurately account for any energy sources, or the claims they make are erroneous.
What the hell are you talking about anyway? "all the energy in the universe? You're trying to get me to believe that there is a source of energy first, then trying to get me to believe that someone made it. It's two claims in one, sort of like "jesus loves me".
>>692490233
>The source of all the energy in the universe can not be explained in any coherent way by modern science. The best it can do is "It was always there" or "It was introduced from an even larger system"
Why don't both those criticisms equally apply to the view that deities created the universe? I mean, wasn't God always there?
>>692506863
I'm saying that the belief in God is just as valid scientifically as the belief that "Energy was just there floating around until it exploded"
And again you seem absurdly fixated on the false dichotomy between science and religion. You do understand that alchemists and witch doctors are the roots of our modern development of science, right? Science isn't a fortress on a hill, it's a construct that changes as our understanding grows.
Religion doesn't have to be dogma, it can be exactly like science in so far as it can provide logical understanding of philosophical issues.
And conversely, science is sometimes simply dogma, and historically has been mostly just that, but that only becomes apparent generations later.
>>692492352
Hades wasn't evil. By what most people define as good and evil, Zeus was way more evil than Hades. Learn your "history". And besides, evil is relative.
>>692507249
So you believe that all the energy of the universe was just always there, then right? You have faith in that belief?
>>692507500
>"Energy was just there floating around until it exploded"
There was no "until". There is no such thing as 'before' the universe. That doesn't mean the universe is infinitely old; merely that time is one of its features.
>>692507013
>You and every part of you (whether you are aware of it or not) and everything else in the universe is made of energy in various states.
That is a wild baseless claim. Please present some evidence of your claim, because I don't understand the claim without theory of the claim.
I think you're referring to the cosmic quantum physics thingy that the hindu gurus talk about, and it's a pure psuedo science.
>>692507013
But just because we dont know doesnt mean 'it must be god'. There are endless things we didnt know in our history, til scientists figured them out. If we just assumed 'God' is the answer to everything we'd still be dancing to make it rain.
we dont know how god was made
we dont know where the big bang came from
and it doesnt matter even if we do find out
just go fap you fucking mongrels
>>692507013
>Faith belief
No, faith is based on no proof, you only believe because you feel the need to do so in some way or the other, the universe's energy having been always there is not a belief, it's a conclusion reached over decades of studying deep space frecuencies and waves.
Also, the universe is far away from having order, it's always in a state of fluctuation from order to chaos but our lifespans are too freaking short to even be aware of that.
My cat tells me that god wants me to feed it.
this is proof, my cat says so.
>>692507500
>fixated on the false dichotomy between science and religion.
Well, if religion didn't trespass all over science, then we wouldn't have a problem with it.
All supernatural biblical or other ancient texts about gods have been wild and unproveable, and sometimes just flat our wrong.
>>692507013
>"It was always there"
becomes a meaningless statement once your realize that always references time and time itself wasn't there back in the day.
>>692507013
Quoting Rick and Morty doesn't make you the smartest person in the thread.
>>692485731
>Proof implies existence
>Doesn't know about proof by contradiction
ITT: nobody points out that OP dosent understand the basics of structuring an argument
>>692494514
>I say you lose so you lost
>>692507305
>I mean, wasn't God always there?
I think now you're starting to wake up. The fact is that atheistic zealots are just spouting blind dogma as much as some religious zealot cult leader saying god told him to poison the punch.
The fact is that no rational scientific theory accounts for the origin of energy, so it could just as well be God, and frankly, it makes more sense considering how much we don't know. As our understanding grows, maybe we'll be able to get closer to defining or understanding God beyond where we are now, but as it stands, secular or religious, to have a real opinion requires faith.
>>692507645
>>>You and every part of you (whether you are aware of it or not) and everything else in the universe is made of energy in various states.
>That is a wild baseless claim. Please present some evidence of your claim, because I don't understand the claim without theory of the claim.
Matter can be converted to energy. E.g., read up on how these things work:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=atom+bomb&oq=atom+bomb&aqs=chrome..69i57.1909j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Not to mention fusion inside stars generated the elements that constitute the matter in your body. You can read all of this in a grade 6 science textbook.
>>692507637
So you believe it just materialized out of nowhere? How does that follow logically from anything?
>>692507598
>So you believe that all the energy of the universe was just always there
You're the one making claims about "all the energy in the universe", but failing to add any relevent evidence to your claim.
First, when you talk about the energy source, give some proof. Then, you seem to think someone or something created it, so then present some logical evidenciary ideas about that claim.
Then, we can move on to the next subject.
This is really boring when otherwise intelligent people talk this way.
>>692507645
Goddamnit dude, I'm getting tired of your grade school level bullshit. Everything in the universe is energy in different states. Fuck, dude, get with the program. It's really like you're just trolling.
>>692508197
>it makes more sense considering how much we don't know.
It literally makes much less sense. Instead of energy existing, it posits a sentient omnipotent ghostly, usually personal, entity that created it. There is no reason to posit that. We know energy exists. It's unreasonable and baseless to ascribe its origin to sentient deities.
>>692507927
>the universe's energy having been always there is not a belief, it's a conclusion (based on observation)"
That's exactly like saying "God having been always there is not a belief, it's a conclusion (based on observation)"
>>692485493
Define God. As in is it just part of the system that humans are unable to understand or is it an omnipotent being that greated all or just some guys on top of a mountain who throw some "magic" around? Or is it somenthing entirely different?
>>692508197
It's depressing people still just shrug at things they dont understand and assume God is the answer.
>>692508197
What knowledge do we need to possess for you to think of god as a bad theory?
>>692508073
I've never even watched that show, kid. I really have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>>692508197
>Energy must have an origin
>It was God
What was the origin of God?
inb4 he was always there. Faith in a god to explain the creation of things doesnt make any sense to me. Why do you think things must have been created? Why couldnt they always have been?
Also in reading through the text, a lot of people don't seem to actually understand physics/energy/matter and the conversation is degrading. Instead of typing a book explanation on how things work I'm just gonna go eat dinner. it was a fun thread
>>692485493
I can't prove that there isn't a deity. I can disprove a few notions
Let God be all powerful
Let God be all good
Total power is directly related to total freedom
There exists a universal set. Within this set lies every thing we know.
Good is a subset of this set
Evil is a subset of this set
The union of good and evil does not necessarily exist
If the ability to be all powerful allows total freedom then God's domain is the universal set
Therefore God cannot be all good if he is all powerful
If God is all good then his domain is the set of good
If God is all good then his domain is not whatever is outside of good
Therefore God cannot be all powerful if he is all good
>>692508289
> So you believe it just materialized out of nowhere?
Not exactly; just that it didn't need to be caused. Read up on how we know time is a feature of the observable universe and not its antecedent. Time itself is only about 15 billion years old. The fact that that's true means your normal temporal understanding of cause and effect can not apply to the origin of the universe.
>>692508289
It doesn't have to be logical to be true because our logic, our common sense is built upon us experiencing everyday phenomenons and watching their outcomes.
Tell someone from the 16th century that lightning is no god's wrath and that you can capture it within a glass sphere and he won't believe you because it's "illogical".
>>692508307
Your understanding of the material world is obviously entirely elementary. We can discuss this after you've finished high school.
>>692508813
Ffs stop calling people 'kid'. How old are you?
Prove to me a deity exist in the first place
Protip you can't
it is difficult enough proving the nonexistance of something, so lets pose another question
can anyone prove that....unicorns/dragons/wizards dont exist?
this should point out the huge hole in OP's argument, and why it should be logically dismissed.
>>692508911
It also means that you have no fucking clue about anything a split nanosecond before the big bang, so for all you know it could be an entire community of universes acting together as "God"
Don't get too cocky Star Fox.
>>692509101
A lot older than you, probably.
>>692509331
I'm 29.
Andross enemy is MY enemy.
>>692508709
No it is not, cause that's not a conclusion based on observation and testing of hypothesis, and no "nature is beautiful therefore someone created it" is no proof of God.
>>692509101
It's not meant to be insulting. I think you'd understand if you have kids. You'l find yourself accidentally calling friends and coworkers, son, and baby, kid, and suchlike.
