I am a Christian, and cannot stand atheists. All of you are sheep that can't think for yourselves and you cling to parroted Dawkins arguments whenever you're challenged. I have converted several of my atheist friends to Christianity and it's always the same, they always see the truth in the end.
Debate me. You will lose.
Fear my never-ending erection, you peeper of poppers!
If God were real... how are you still alive?
God loves you
I want to believe in God but I can't. How can God exist if different religions believe in different ones
Blind faith
>>687571612
>how can gravity exist if different scientists have different opinions on what it is
I'm bored with these shit posts
>>687571858
fug
>>687571858
you probably meant galaxy
God reams your asshole out and you suck his cock
>>687570835
But why do you always use a picture of that girl? Don't you want a little variety in your life?
See this shit here
Christ!!
>>687570835
I think that you would very much enjoy this video...
https://youtu.be/mEykzLXkhgk
This thread became Ala's celebration, fuck you muslims!
>>687570835
Gods of porn
> Kek
No this one
> my sides
In your bible your god killed millions. Your Satan killed 10. Seems most of you picked the wrong side in your little story book
I am an Atheist, and cannot stand Christians. All of you are sheep that can't think for yourselves and you cling to parroted Bible arguments whenever you're challenged. I have converted several of my Christian friends to Atheism and it's always the same, they always see the truth in the end.
>>687570835
>sheep
Calls their God the "shepherd"
Kek
>>687570835
As a Christian I would remind you that you should not be resentful toward those that do not believe in our faith. You cannot debate someone into conversion. The best method of sharing your faith is to value others as themselves and give witness through the Lords presence in your life. It is a simple concept that many who call themselves Christians misconstrue. It is not ours to judge. There is another, greater than us, to who all will have their hour with with. Ours is to share the joys of this life with others.
>>687570835
Factually prove God's existence.
Protip: you can't
https://youtu.be/ndeJGiHyPIk
>>687570835
> Dawkins
Don't lump me in that asshole. He is to atheism as Joel Olsteen is to Christianity.
>>687570835
>>687574570
Our understanding of God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.
The idea of God exists in the mind.
A being which exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only in the mind.
If God only exists in the mind, then we can conceive of a greater being—that which exists in reality.
We cannot be imagining something that is greater than God.
Therefore, God exists.
>>687574974
Maybe, but why is wprship required when I can just be a good person and help on my own accord, like I already do?
>>687573902
You used a recycled joke to counter a recycled shitpost.
Maximum edge acheived.
>>687574974
So wish fulfilment, got it.. well i am convinced.
>>687575415
You're a bright one, aren't you.
>>687575270
Someone actually debating
>notbad.jpg
>>687570835
I find it funny how every night someone manages to post a picture of a whiny bitch from a make believe world defending christianism... good representation of the fanbase.
>>687570835
OP, another settlement needs our help.
>>687572684
>>687570835
Which type of Christianity do you believe in?
>>687574974
Maybe you misunderstood. You need to prove that God tangibly exists.
>>687574974
>Our understanding of God
Subjective.
>A being which exists both in the mind and in reality
Prove that God exists in reality. If you can't and still believe these ideals to be fact, you're delusional, ignorant, or both.
>If God only exists in the mind, then we can conceive of a greater being—that which exists in reality.
How so? How can you mentally conceive a physical existence?
>We cannot be imagining something that is greater than God.
Sure, because
>Therefore, God exists.
Invalid, unproven statement.
God made you.
God made atheists.
God gave them free will.
Therefore you're subverting God's will by trying to remove their free will.
And you're going to hell.
/thread
>>687574974
>god exists because i feel like he does
Poor baby, facts don't care about your feelings. You'll grow up and realize that one day.
>>687576400
>>687574974
Didn't finish the second to last point. Perhaps you cannot be imagining something greater than god because you constrict your mind to the point of narrowness and subjectivity that you're self preventing yourself from doing so. You don't even understand the ideals and logic you claim to believe in.
>>687574974
This is called the ontological argument, and it's a shit argument. It implies the existence of any superlative. For instance: Devil exists by the same logic.
>>687576746
Typical atheist, can't understand simple logic. Read it again, you may have to take an english class though.
Not my fault if you're dumb to understand when you're proven wrong.
>>687570835
I am too, kinda, but I think you are missing some points from the bible, mostly, be nice. Your friends may have just said they converted to shit you the fuck up, who actually knows? Either way, lurk moar n convert others with your niceness, not your hate. Save the debate for your spiritual elders so that they may be able to teach you and you them.
>>687576969
>Devil exists by the same logic.
your point?
>>687574974
That explanation begs the question:
What do you mean by 'greater'?
>>687572689
He wants to rape her.
>>687577003
Nobody has been proven wrong here. You just want to believe God exists for no reason. It's as simple as that, try not to get so upset next time buddy.
>>687574974
replace god with unicorn. the argument is fucking weak as hell.
>>687574974
>Our understanding of God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.
>Our understanding of God
>understanding
>God
GTFO with your hippie bullshit, I don't need you running around saying shit about my religion
>>687577292
>Nobody has been proven wrong here.
False. You have. I can't make you admit it i suppose, but maybe pick up a book sometime?
I am a faggot, and cannot stand heterosexuals. All of you are vagina lovers that can't think for yourselves and you cling to parroted heternormative arguments whenever you're challenged. I have converted several of my straight friends to faggotry and it's always the same, they always see the beauty of the penis in the end.
Try to suck more cock than me. You will lose.
>>687570835
dem finches are comin for you
not sure if the guro posters realize this was b8
>>687570835
There is a book called "a million little pieces."
Book was published years ago, and the author claimed it to be based on his life, all fact.
Everyone believed him. That is, until people started to question it, and they searched and found it to be false.
The book is a lie. None of it happened.
Some people look at the bible, thousands and thousands of years old, and claim it to be true. Scientist have proved things to be true, we have found gravity and we have found dinosaurs. Those things are not mentioned in the bible. The homosexual debate pisses me off because why does it matter what gays do? Worry about your own life, you know?
I guess what I am trying to say is that even though you claim God is in the mind, and I have heard that scientist have found that to be "true" I still do not believe in god because I think god was created in those times because religion was a factor to use to control people. Look at other gods from the past, like Zeus. People use to believe in him. Now, we all know he does not exist.
Our mind belongs in the brain, and our brain belongs in the body. When we die, our bodies slowly tear apart, as do our brains.
>>687570835
You have the right to believe, I lack the faith to believe. It is hard for me to believe; nothing more or less.
>>687577195
By greater, ignorant anon means omnipotent. All knowing and understanding, divine.
There are many loopholes and contradictions that destroy this kind of logic.
For instance, the Christian omnipotent god unconditionally loves all of his creations and is endlessly forgiving. Yet, going by the Christian perspective, you can be condemned to an eterenity of "Hell" for whatever reasons.
Would an unconditionally loving and forgiving God condemn his beloved creations if he truly loved them.
God is an egotistical being. Why demand worship and faith instead of making your presence clear and known to free-willed humankind? If god determines the outcome of lives, why are innocent people brutally killed each day?
If god is egotistical, he is not omnipotent, and is far from a perfect entity.
>>687577871
how do you even do that
>>687574974
>A being which exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only in the mind.
You fail right here anon.
“For hGod so loved ithe world,9 jthat he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not kperish but have eternal life.
Eat shit faggots
Muslims have massacred over 669+ million non-Muslims since 622AD
Around 5,000,000 in the first 4 crusades, with another 1,000,000 in the Albigensian Crusade.
Then to weed out those nasty people that were left, there was The Holy Office to deal with, which accounted for around another 140,000. Mostly tortured first before suffering some disgusting fate that they dreamed up.
Maybe 200,000 witches, then you can add in the Wars of Religion in Europe that was about 3,400,000, The 30 Years War, 40% of Germany annihilated plus 1000`s of others.
Then there was the persecution of the Jews, about 450,000 up to the end of the 17th century and so on.
About 23,500,000...maybe more.
And that is just Europe and the Levant plus I stopped counting at around the year 1700.
All in the name of god! But don't worry, he loves YOU, dumbass
>>687578291
Well, I can think of a much greater world then their god has produced, so I guess, according to their own ontological argument, that means their god doesn't exist .
>>687578462
Apparently he was wrong.
But don't worry... Man will soon defeat death without the need for any gods.
>>687580229
To imagine the vastness of space and then believe that there's a God that retains our image and revolves around us is a very asinine perspective to have. The universe doesn't revolve around us; we revolve around our solar system's sun. Without it means no life, and I highly doubt an entity can change that.
God very well may exist, but objective arguments are always logical and more reasonable, and these arguments point towards his nonexistence.
I maintain my agnostic perspective. Only physical evidence can change that.
>>687570835
I accept that debate... And where would you like to debate? How about up my nose with a rubber hose.
>>687570835
" my religion is correct because it says it's correct"
>>687570835
You can't prove that Dawkins is wrong!
OP, OP, oh dear OP,
Answer me these questions three.
1. If God is omnipotent and doesn't want to send anybody to hell, why doesn't he just forgive everybody? Or if he's not "omnipotent enough" to make that happen, who is forcing an omnipotent being into torturing his own creation against his will?
2. The New Testament doesn't have a basis outside of the old testament, but the old testament doestrogen not mention hell. Did God fidget to mention hell for four thousand years?
3. What is the difference between faith and cognitive bias?
>>687582418
Forget *
Does*
just stop
Why would an all powerful god that knows everything need people to stand up for him. That is silly
>>687583018
You're at a significant disadvantage when you don't exist though
>>687571858
Because it was proven by a thing called "experiments". I hope you took 3rd grade science my friend.
>>687583932
And God has been proven by a thing called "logic."
>>687584131
W8 a sec gr8 fisherman, you got any 'evidence' for that shit like gravity has? Science has evidence, religion is a bad joke for idiots :DDDDDD
>>687584131
That is the one thing that cant be proven with logic lol
>>687584443
You took it. You fucked up. You only had one job, and it was literally to do nothing.
>>687571858
Gravity is the cumulative effect on things that can be measured and experienced. Gods have no such measurable effect.
What is the difference between the effects of a god and no god?
>>687585185
>God
The world exists
>no God
The world doesn't exist
>>687570835
>>687585390
>simulation
The world exists
>no simulation
The world doesn't exist
Now I get it... no proof needed!
>>687570835
>Satan is evil, and he likes evil things
>Evil people go to hell, to recieve their punishment from Satan
The question is, why does SATAN punish people for EVIL thing when he like evil things?
>>687585992
Dude he gave you the same proof of God as there is of gravity
We don't know what gravity is, but without it apples wouldn't fall to the ground.
We don't know the nature of God, but without him the universe couldn't possibly exist.
>>687586250
Who is this 'we' that doesn't know what gravity is?
>2016- doesn't know about gravity waves
Gravity is the effect we observe in the bending of spacetime.
>>687570835
Religion is tbe ultimate gamble. You buy a ticket, you hope it pays out at the end, and ultimately that's all you get. You pay for hope. Hope for an afterlife, hope that you picked a winner from thousands of competing ideologies and faiths. It's all the same, a wishful thought dressed up in ritual and blind adherence, denial of that harshest of realities, that all existences come to an end. The house always wins.
>>687586796
>Gravity is the effect
Don't play dumb. Naming the effect does not mean you understand the cause. We don't know what causes gravity.
>>687570835
Christians are sinners that break their own commandments it doesnt matter if you argue with me your still going to hell dork
Constant posts about religion on /b/ oh wow another one. So original just the same as the last. Even has the same picture as the last one. Personally I could give a fuck what religion you follow. You could have a religion that just says you need to fuck dogs in the ass every day for all I care. Take your stupid shit else where.
>>687587279
Not the guy you're replying to, but this is a false analogy. In order for objects to fall, there has to be a cause, and we have named that cause gravity, we haven't asserted any other extraneous qualities. In order for the universe to exist, I'm willing to say that there probably should be some sort of cause, but when you posit the christian god, you're attaching several qualities to that cause that aren't demonstrable, and have to be argued for philosophically. The two things aren't comparable.
>>687570835
What created god?
>>687587279
But the effect can be measured.
There is no measurable effect from a god.
>God is gravity, because I can't explain gravity so God's effects are measurable in gravity... ya, that's the ticket!
>>687587981
>There is no measurable effect from a god.
Yes there is. The world exists. Without a god, the world wouldn't exist, just like without gravity we'd float freely in space.
>>687587981
This is exactly the problem OP has with us atheists. Just because you can't prove something empirically, doesn't necessarily mean that it does not exist. You can prove things by deduction and you can use logic to form an argument that is valid and sound to prove your assertion. It's not purely dependent on science.
>>687588394
>The world exists. Without simulating a world, the world wouldn't exist. Therefor we are living in a simulation.
It's the same dude.
>>687589721
Like I said. We don't know the nature of God, just like we don't know the cause of gravity.
The whole point of the statement you replied to is that there may be different interpretations of a creator, but a creator MUST exist, just as gravity MUST exist, because it's self-evident.
Monistic pantheist here
You're all confused children
>Fips tedora
>>687590185
>>687587808
read my reply, this is fallacious
>>687587808
Perhaps, if you grant the existence of God, a Christian would explain why that God must be the Christian God.
>>687590185
If its self evident, then what created the creator?
In a simulator hypothesis, the simulation creator originates by natural processes. What natural process created the creator gods?
>>687591150
i'm not granting the existence of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient god, which is what has to be granted before a christian can explain why that god is the christian god. i'm just granting a first cause
>>687591233
Good question, but it is beyond the scope of this conversation, I think. I am only showing that a direct creator must exist.
>>687590970
A guy reads one article with a false conclusion about simulations and thinks this is a legit argument. Lol. Go read the last 2 millenia of Theology and philosophy and get back to me (by the way, same field until 400 years ago)
>>687591445
Go read Anselm
>>687591546
You speak of infinite regression. Is that logical to you?
>>687591579
400 years ago, we found out the Earth isn't the center of the universe.
>>687591233
What you call "natural processes" Christians call "God" You also have very different ideas about how the process works. This is just a definition all issue. What about God do you think impossible and why?
>>687591579
i didn't reference an article? and that's quite a silly thing to say. ok, go read every single rebuttal to those philosophical and theological writings and get back to me. once we've both done that, i'm sure it'll be the debate of the century
>>687591675
i'll put it on my list, thanks
>>687591940
Well, that depends. The most accepted theory contends there is no center. Thus a subjective center is a good working tool from a human standpoint.
>>687591743
That appears to be the current logical conclusion unless more evidence appears.
I've shown that a direct creator must exist, and unless you can dispute that, I have no interest in extending the debate.
>>687592151
There's no point in me giving you an argument that another man wrote better. He's the father of the ontological argument.
>>687570835
I am an atheist, and cannot stand Christians. All of you are sheep that can't think for yourselves and you cling to parroted biblical arguments whenever you're challenged. I have converted several of my Christian friends to atheism and it's always the same, they always see the truth in the end.
Debate me. You will lose.
>>687592272
Going to tip that fedora amidst all that smugness, lol. If things were settled as such, many more people would already know.
>>687577215
Kek
>>687577398
A rose by any other name...
Calling God something else doesn't change the nature of God
>>687591962
I don't think a god is impossible.
The question is what is probable.
From time immemorial, humans have attributed the mysteries they could not understand to a god. As humans understood the natural cause of more and more of those mysteries, the god of the gaps shrunk more and more proportionately. Since every other mystery we have discovered the answer to so far didn't need a god, then what is the probability that a god is needed to explain the next mystery to solve?
>>687592272
you really haven't
>>687592477
oh the ontological argument, i've just seen the classical one. i wasn't asking you to articulate it, i'll look into it and give it some thought
>you really haven't
Well, if that's what you believe, then by all means explain how the universe can exist without a creator.
I'll be waiting.
>>687593074
Kek
>>687592272
Hate to break it to you, but you have not 'shone' that anything must exist.
>>687593474
>>687593380
my disagreeing with your supposed proof doesn't then require me to take the exact opposite position. i don't have to prove another position is right just to think yours is fallacious
>>687593499
>shone
what?
Anyway, if you don't accept a proof, then refute it, otherwise you're just shitposting.
>>687570835
That pasta needs some sauce. Amirite?
>>687593745
Then please show me the fallacy.
>>687593193
I just always assumed there was a creative force in another dimension making every possible thing happen.
>>687570835
In this thread : fucking idiots, the lot of you
>>687593867
are you the guy using gravity as an analogy for god? if you are, i've already referred you to that post several times, and all you said was that i referred to an article i didn't even refer to.
>>687573091
>look up hood intellect post
>original was deleted
>replaced with "WHITE PEOPLE EAGER TO KILL"
I'd tell him to make up his mind, but it's made up to start a fuckin' race war.
>>687589721
It is impossible that we live in a simulation. There is no way in hell that I would pay to be placed in a simulation that includes (you)
>>687593193
Your conception of God is a pagan conception. God to explain natural phenomena? Thats not what God is. God is both a principle and a person. It's complex but completely understandable if time us raken. But, seriously, you're arguing against Zeus, not the Christian God.
>>687593949
It is a possibility. But it holds no explanatory power. You can't explain a mystery just by saying "bigger mystery".
>>687593988
That wasn't me talking about the article. Anyway, your attempt to point out a fallacy assumed that I was talking about the Christian god, or really any God that religions have hypothesized. If you follow the reply chain back you will find that I made no such assertion. I am only trying to show that some kind of creator MUST have existed, or the universe wouldn't exist. This might seem obvious to some people, but the person I was arguing with took such a moronic position that I actually had to hammer it into his thick skull.
>>687594189
>saying you understand aspects of the Christian God
>at the same time saying the Christian god transcends human understanding
Are you human?
>>687594189
Of which Christian god do you speak?
>Pro tip: there are more verities than you might think
>>687594646
the thing is, when you say "creator", to me, it sounds like you're attributing at least personhood to this creator. If by "creator", you mean first cause, then sure, maybe. I'm not entirely convinced there was a first cause, due to the odd factors surrounding time during the beginning of the universe, but in a very simple sense (which may be correct), i can grant that. However, usually when people talk about God, they attribute at least personhood to that first cause, which is the sort of extraneous quality that i was pointing out when i posited that your argument was fallacious.
Belief in god is one thing
it's another to believe in the false messiah of christ
>>687570835
Could a being of infinite power create an object it couldn't lift?
>>687570835
so basically u accept dinasours did exist ?
or they dont ?
*wears his fedora on and walks down the sunset.
>>687570835
>>687595311
Of course... But he chooses not to! Checkmate atheist!
Also nice dubs
>>687595311
Yes, and then it would lift it anyways.
That's what omnipotence means.
God of course, can't even create flawless beings, so he isn't omnipotent.
>>687595946
>>687593905
Only funny one that this samefag posted
>>687595946
If he can't lift a simple object how can his power be infinite? Checkmate godfag!
If God is real then how come people spill chocolate milk. Truely no higher power would permit such, dreaded, horrific scenes of true desperation from the fellow human being who has lost their, milk of chocolate.
>>687596231
>>687596001
If he can lift it, then he hasn't created an object he can't lift, what are stupid or something?
>I believe something and have all answers
K gl m8
>>687595218
I personally believe that there was personhood involved, but it's irrelevant. I leapt at a stupid point that was made and shot it down within the bounds that it could be irrefutably shut down. I have no interest in debating the existence of an intelligent God, least of all on 4chan.
>>687596710
fair enough, glad you're civil about it. thread is derailed anyway, have a good night, anon
>>687570835
Do you take your tea like your men?
>>687574974
Me>Here comes that argument
You> O shit waddup
Me> Hey doesn't that mean god has the biggest penis and fucked all the bitches in the as and also has the biggest collection of plush my little ponies with holes for the fgts to put their dicks in also i cant imagine a greater person than hitler so i guess god is also hitler, help guys, what else is the good the OP fgt proved that exists other than Hitler with a big dick who fucks plush my lil ponies, NO, he is God, he fucks the real my lil ponies, damn, im converting to... not Christianity ...this argumate doesn't prove the existence of trinity but of the single greatest thing in the whole universe and everybody can add whatever traits to it and the christians add their godly characteristics to it but the same thing can be done by the satanists, communists, fascists, pony lovers. The problem with the argument is not that its not invalid but that it doesn't prove shit and inordar to prove shit you make false claims as neglecting that the Christian god proved with this argument is also Hitler with the biggest dick that fucks the real my lil ponies.
Proof:
G-d created the world.
You are in the world and it's real, right?
So G-d is real.
