God, is there one?
I don't think there is.
In fact, I know there is no god.
Prove me wrong /b/
Op, is this you? Nice tits btw :)
http://adultfriendfinder.com/go/g1165272-ppc?page_id=695
Prove that there isn't a god.
>>687552276
nobody has to, no god is pure logic.
>>687552422
Thank you.
Read the bible
>>687552612
Book of stories made by man. Why should I trust man? humans lie and make up stories. especially from way back then. Its really easy to make stuff up and have everyone believe you. Ridiculously easy.
>>687552993
It's the word of God
>>687552422
religion isn't a place for logic.
>>687553114
says man
>>687552993
Also you say you don't trust the word of man, your atheist theories on why we exist such as the Big Bang and evolution are all just lies made by man. There is only one truth and that's the word of God
>>687553189
It depends, the satanic cult of Islam is illogical
we all know valhala is the only god
>>687553580
Kill your self plz
>>687553114
I swear I know the girl in this pic. If it's you OP, are you in Scotland? like Glasgow?
>>687552151
who dat
>>687552151
Prove God isn't real? Done.
In the world, especially on /b/, there are many attractive females. Many of these females look like what you posted. However, they are not actually females. They have penises and are male.
No God would allow that to happen.
>>687553285
I don't believe theories, But I do respect the actual science backing them, making them a probability.
faith is just another word for gullible.
>>687553943
The fact that you even exist is proof that God exists, also Allah is just God but sand niggers aren't a religion they're more like a cult worshipping an asteroid and out on a mission started by Muhammed to exterminate every Christian and Jew
if this post ends in 123456890 gods not real
i am a god
prove me wrong
>>687554161
No, these people turned their back on God. Christ died on the cross for our sins and these people don't care they continue to sin and take for granted the sacrifice Jesus made for us.
>>687554264
There is zero science backing up their bold claims
By definition the universe is infinite. You cant question the existense of anything
>>687554305
How is that proof?
It's not proof, plain and simple
>>687554700
Then tell me what you believe.
>>687552612
A book written by man, that has been translated and re-translated time and time again. It has been revised, things have been taken out. Yeah, like I'm really gonna believe that fairy tale shit.
>>687554305
>The fact that you even exist is proof that God exists
How?
In what realm of demented imagination does this even remotely make any sense?
I understand that you want to believe, but I cannot understand how your brain's rational faculties can be so short-circuited by religion, that your insane claim that "The fact that you even exist is proof that God exists" can even make sense to you, yet alone anyone who isnt part of your cult, whichever one it is.
That said, your meaningless babble about Islam is a pretty illogical slice of tossed word salad, too.
>>687553580
But that's not a god u fuckin tart.
depends of what you call god. if you think of yourself as a god, than god does exist.
everything is personal, as gay as it is.
>>687554583
>>687554305
you cant prove god exists you cant prove god doesnt exist, only shrodinger
Theres no way of knowing whether a god does or doesnt exist. Being agnostic is the only real option that doesnt make you a pretentious cock that acts like he has all the answers to lifes problems by being overly preachy about religion or being ham fisted in your crusade against religion.
>>687554955
Because I'm not in high school trying to fit in with the crowd anymore, I realised the truth has been in front of our eyes this whole time in the bible and everything in it is a fact and following the commands given to us by God allows us to live a wholesome, prosperous life.
>>687554873
In our lord and saviour.
Pepe
i know im a god and i do exist so everyone's point is moot
>>687552151
Prove your dreams are real. Sure you can measure electric impulses but can you prove your dreams or your memories or even Human history without referring to a man made book on it? No? Then shut the fuck up and sit down.
>>687555607
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
>>687555488
>Because I'm not in high school trying to fit in with the crowd anymore,
Wow......
are you real?
Really? You think that rational thought, and not following a bronze age cult is "trying to fit in with the crowd" in high school?
I actually feel sorry for you. I cant imagine what a disability it must be to have so little self-awareness, and ability to look at things without critical thinking. Honestly. I really feel sorry for you, if you're actually being honest when you say that.
>>687552151
I believe that there is a god because there are events that have happened that not even science can explain but I don't follow a piece of shit religion those institutions were created to control the masses that follow them
>>687555824
even our history books are wrong most the time so that point is invalid
>>687555924
You do realize that shit is bait, right? Either that or their suffering from some serious autism
>>687555726
You type better than my cat.
>>687555401
Agnostic is believing that there's a possibility that a fairytale is true, but just in case you wont fully believe? That's not very logical at all
>>687552151
people don't understand life, its to advance, they can't handje the truth yet so its easier for them to give the mystories a name, and address it to one fictive person.
>>687556082
Agnostic is believing that its a possibility that there is a god, but not devoting yourself to following a specific religion because theres no way of knowing the truth
>>687552151
I am God hello
>>687556067
im a dog <------> god
soooo yeah
>>687556040
Then the past never happened and is fake right? Since we have no way to observe it or prove it. Your life, the universe and everything else was completely created 15 minutes ago and you can't disprove it can you? Fucken fite me m8
>>687556286
no im god
Some tribes believe there is a witch in the jungle and is they stray to far she will east their soul.
Tribes today are basically the same mindset humans had back then.
>>687556286
Oh shit waddup
>>687555924
Following the mainstream popular opinion and culture will lead to eternal damnation.
1. Promiscuity and adultery is encouraged in our society, this not only leads to illness and disease to spread amongst the population but it is a sin!
2. Tattoos can lead to disease and is a sin.
3. Dressing unmodestly can lead to many risks such as rape or murder.
And it just keeps going on and going, everything in the bible is 100% logical the bible isn't there to make life harder it's to make your life better and help you get closer to God. You can choose to follow society like a sheep and turn your back on Christ who died on the cross for you and live a life of degeneracy and sin which will eventually lead to suffering and death and an eternity in hell. Or you can live your life according to the wishes of God living a wholesome, fulfilling, happy life and eventually end life happy and spend an eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven. Which sounds better to you?
>>687556474
No bitch is gonna east my soul. West side till i die nigga
>>687552422
Then go ahead and give the logic
If gosh did exist he would be ashamed of you for arguing about him on a "vietnamese reality television" discussion board on the world wide web
>consider suicide
>preform some act of self destruction
>kill yourself
>die
>and then become dead
Theists, Atheists, Agnostics, etc., it's all a waste of time.
I'm in the "who cares?" club.
>>687556582
nice b8
anyway no one knows and I will not spend my time arguing over some shit that people much more intelligent than me couldn't figure out
>>687556799
which is agnostic
>>687556582
Everything in the bible is 100% logical. Until you see the inconsistincies and logical flaws. Analyze the book dumbass
So what happened to .ma.ster ch.an? Did it get raided or something?
>>687556329
we read what the governments want us to read not how thing went fuck in a 100 years the books could say aliens took out the twin towers the kids then will learn that a believe it because thats what they are told
>>687556801
It's not bait, I was an atheist too I thought I was for my whole life but by 20 I realised the truth. Just read the Bible try it you'll be amazed.
>>687556890
Show me what is so illogical about it
>>687552151
I can prove you wrong. You don't in "fact" know there isn't one... Need more be said?
But anyone who thinks there is evidence for god is inexcusably ignorant... by several centuries now.
>>687556329
ok, let me write something from our fellow bible writers.
there was a king and queen, the queen did bad so god got mad and made her sick and die. the end
Everyone believe now because I said god did it.
>>687556995
I think you are missing the point.... Does that mean that the past didn't happen? NO.
>>687557032
Heres something simple. Noahs ark. Two people repopulate the whole planet through incest. Lets say this is possible. How do different races come out of this?
>>687557032
"Read the bible" is the epitome of trolling u.u
>My autistic thoughts
I imagine that if someone is born beautiful and raised in a noce environment, that they will adopt a bubble mentality. A religeous bubble that they never question anything. And just assume that life is great for everyone. Therefore god must exist!
In reality, they won the genetic lottery. And the only reason they get that attention is due to traits deemed attractive by society.
>>687556329
>>687556995
its those who ask questions and look for themselves that find the truth
>>687557015
thats not what agnostic means
>>687552612
The Bible says snakes can talk and that Israelites were slaves in Egypt.
>>687555971
>because there are events that have happened that not even science can explain
No. that's wrong.
There are a tiny number of events that science has yet to explain with reasons that have been studied, researched, tested, and proven. Take the big bang. We have modelled, and proven what happens there, going back closer and closer to the zero point. that was about 13.4 billion years ago. How close does the scientific model get? A year after the instant? no. A day after? no. A second? No. A millionth of a second? No.
Its modelled back to what is termed Planck time, 10^-43 seconds.
that is: 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a second after the event. This is a moment of time so short that a particle travelling at the speed of light could travel less than half an inch.
When science says it "doesnt have answers" it is referring to insanely tiny moments or gaps of details that the average person barely comprehends.
Religion, in contrast, answers those questions by saying "god did it". No tests, not study, no proof. just the three, lazy little words, "god did it".
If you think that's an answer, and that it proves science is lacking, then you neither understand what science is, nor have any sense of critical thinking, if you concluded that those three lazy words were an adequate answer.
https://youtu.be/37Irbv-_Ppw
Now stop fighting.
Pretty scary knowing people need to believe there's a god so they kill and rape people.
>>687557375
Supply a definition then
>>687556246
Tell me, are you also agnostic about me being God?
>>687557173
it happen in some form but not as we learn it did 100% of the time
>>687557541
He has to, it's part of it, otherwise he's a hypocrite
>>687557541
Its a posibility but then youd be a pretty fuckin stupid god for wasting your time on 4chan
>>687556582
Okay, this doesn't prove god is real but at least someone understands the real message of the bible
>it is a book about morals which teaches proper behavior and improves the quality of life while giving people a "god" which is an excuse which prevents existential issues and gives some kind of reason in life to people without reasons. in essence god is meant to be a way out of worry and a way into a healthier life. as a self-diagnosed atheist I personally don't hate the idea of "the magical man in the sky" because, much like Aesop's fables christianity is total fiction meant to teach you a little bit about reality
Adieu /b/, I bid you a full happy life full of both reason and morals
>>687557541
Sure. How could you prove or disprove something like a god, which isn't measurable by any scientific means.
Why does life suck so much?
Real nice universe you created, idiot.
>>687552151
You're right OP, absolutely right.
>>687557709
Morals eh? Read the old testament friendo. Not exactly a friendly childrens tale
>>687557441
This planet is nearly unhabital. 70% of the earth is covered in salt water. Large portions of north and south poles are unhabital. This planet is over run with humans. 6 billion people on this planet all believing their super dooper special. Bullshit. Life is just about thriving and leaving your offspring behind when you die. If you leave a permenent mark. Then thats great. But 95% of people will be forgotten within a year after they die
>>687557173
i do believe in a god, but dont in the books said to be his/her word and i most definitely dont believe in Jesus
>>687557690
>fuckin stupid god
Kind of like a god that punishes people who don't know right from wrong for eating magic fruit.
>>687557239
After the flood God commanded us to spread around the Earth and repopulate it, humans disobeyed him. You might remember this story with the Tower of Babel and the origin of languages. God spread us out, gave us unique languages and identities and could have given us all different races as well.
>>687557270
I would not troll about this I am very serious about my faith
I'm not sure it matters, let's just have a laugh, before we go.
>>687557709
>book of morals
Ha ha ha. The most fucked up people ive ever had the displeasure of meeting are religeous. The most intelligent people ive met have no religeous beliefs
>>687557336
Are you retarded? Thats as stupid as saying "The bible is where I look to seek answers". I swear I have never met an atheist who could adequately argue this. Look. What seperates the past from Religion? The answer nothing.
>>687556379
No u
God could exist in an infinite number of forms or not at all. Since god would be beyond our ability to measure scientifically it's impossible to know.
This is hilarious, and the proof of god is non existent soooo....I dunno I dont personally believe in god but a lot of people seem happy with being lead like sheep so that's a thing.
>>687557978
Quote scripture that says different races were created at that point, or your point is invalid
>>687555401
May i quote that?
>>687558272
Nobody can stop you
>>687557892
The Old Testament was written by Jews
>I never said anything about Judaism teaching morals
>>687557788
>Sure. How could you prove or disprove something like a god, which isn't measurable by any scientific means.
The Problem of Evil does that effectively enough, at least if the God in question is supposed to be good, all powerful, and omniscient.
Let's settle this as far as any human possibly can for those primitive ones who are actually serious in this thread.
I am an agnostic-agnostic, in my eyes atheism and theism seems equally dumb. And not only because either side is based on theoretical beliefs of either side but also because any relics, holy objects and books written for the 3 major religions this community contains. (JIDF included). Were all created and written by humans. You fuckwits are told by these writings to believe, to have faith, but then admits that there will never be any actual proof of there being a superior intelligent creature surrounding us or whatever.
And you atheist, smelly, fedora wearing, natural selection avoiding cuck tornadoes are even worse. Not only are you all human waste, trash that dont fit in anywhere. You also, ironically convince yourselves that you are"the enlightened ones" when what you believe in completely neglects a gigantique paradox that prevents any person from ever comprehending the ultimate answer of why and how we got here, namely the "what happened before that?" paradox.
Your ideas and theories disgust me, kill yourselves.
>>687555488
Yes, dumb people tend to believe lots of crap
there is a god anon, and he is well aware of what hurts you.
through him everything is made new
>>687552151
humans are god. its a humna construct. socio-evolutionary consciousness.
self as god is the secret
self empowerment, acceptance, determence
beyond that, love
defining love as god
>>687558331
The old testament is still part of christianity, regardless of judaism coming first
>>687557978
even elvish?
>>687558095
That's because they take every word literally
>read a fiction book and take every word as if it happened and was the most important thing in history and you will change your outlook on life
OH Ive got one, if theres a multiverse then god does exist in an infinite amount of universes but at the same time is devoid in another infinite amount so he both does and doesnt exist within the multiverse as do you
>>687558359
Who says he has to be good? Does evil even exist? Does our universe even exist? Are we just a simulation of a more advanced society? It is impossible to prove one way or another where we came from so why try?
>>687557404
Artists depicted it as a snake, it was a serpent they didn't specify exactly but it says in Genesis
>And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
So it's safe to assume before this the serpent did not have to slither on his belly since God cursed him to. It doesn't specify exactly who or what the serpent was. And yes they were slaves
>>687557709
I believe the bible is 100% fact, but at the same time I believe atheists or agnostics should take the bible as an example on how to live their life. It's very important to abandon the degeneracy celebrated by our society today and embrace a wholesome life.
here my logic saying im a god as well as all you fags...
>the bible says we are created in his image
>we can create life
>build a civilization
>we can take life
>destroy worlds
is or isnt that the destination of a god?
>>687558219
It doesn't say this, but he created new languages for them so why is it so crazy to assume he also made them different races? It's a logical conclusion to make even if you're an atheist,
>>687558492
That's a man made language
>>687558474
Yeah but the "morals" I referred to were written as a sort of sequel to ye olde book of kikes and some parts of it denounce that some of the old rules are still in place (i.e. you can eat bacon now because some guy gave his life for everyone)
>>687552151
Explain how the big bang started
>>687558641
God gave us free will, we can live life as we wish this includes murdering someone if you wish. We aren't Gods slaves we are his children, you give your children freedom don't you? Your children can either follow your rules or disobey them.
>>687558879
It isnt a logical conclusion. Thats called jumping to conclusions, and theres no facts or even lines in the book that suggest that the skin tones, eye shapes, bone structures, all this shit got changed in an instant. You would think that would be a fairly important thing to mark down too
>>687558412
Oh yeah before i forget, most priests and higher up "holy" people within christianity and islam are greedy and corrupt. They steal donations from the church
>>687558590
We're talking about the conventional use of terms and concepts like "proof" and "knowledge".Yes, most atheists will admit they can't prove to 100% complete metaphysical certitude that God doesn't exist. But that's the same for every single empirical proposition. That doesn't mean you can't have better reasons for believing one thing rather than something else. If I'm allowed to say Russell's teapot probably doesn't exist, or that Carl Sagan's garage dragon probably doesn't exist, or that you probably aren't a sentient pile of spiders typing replies to me somehow, then I'm allowed to say God probably doesn't exist and call myself an atheist.
>>687558898
You cant retcon the whole first book. It doesnt work like that. You take the pavkage deal or youre not a true believer in the faith
>>687558641
sort of, except god is actually physics/quantum. If you can personally control alter and create particles and meta particles of the universe, than you are god.
>>687558607
Oh look, someone understood what I was trying to say.
>you anti-jesus crusaders should follow at least part of his example and stick to acceptance of a fictional novel instead of radical atheism
>allow me to throw in an ad hominem: nice fedora, I can smell the dorito dust on your keyboard as you type
>>687552151
I am God, I was going to give you a gift, which would make you rich and powerful, but since you don't believe in me I'm going to give you 7 years of bad luck. enjoy.
>>687559127
It would also be nice if the bible explained why so many post-flood humans didn't bother to bring things like horses or agriculture or the wheel with them when they spread over the earth.
>>687558898
Christianity used to be Judaism, these laws were made for Jews which we had to follow as well but when Christ was crucified there was a split that was made. Christians understood that he is the son of God Jews don't. We just went our separate ways and they continued to follow the old laws
>>687559033
your argument is flawed
>explain how god started
>>687559206
The difference with those is that all those things COULD be proven if you searched the universe. If god is a force outside the universe than we will never be able to measure their existence. How can you say that it's more likely that the universe was created in any specific way? I believe we can't spectate if we have nothing to base our hypothesis upon and should therefore conclude it's unknowable.
>>687559545
And also explaining how the animals spread back over each of the continents. Sure, you could claim Pangea and shit, but im not biting
>>687559271
My point was that the sequel kind of teaches you better ways to live rather than "God made all, fear him or else"
It wants you to love and respect rules that help you instead of outright fucking children, slaughtering people, and other predominantly muslim ideals
>>687559033
There wasn't anything before the big bang. Not because the universe is infinitely old, but because time is a feature of the universe itself. Given that causes precede effects, the universe doesn't need a cause, per se. You're barking up the wrong tree.
The Austrian School is a school of economic thought that is based on the concept of methodological individualism – that social phenomena result from the motivations and actions of individuals.
In neo-classical economics, people's behavior is explained in terms of rational choices, The neo-classical economist accepts individuals' preferences as givens.
Methodological individualism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Methodological individualism is the requirement that causal accounts of social phenomena explain how they result from the motivations and actions of individual agents, at least in principle.
>>687559623
Thank you for actually processing and understanding my points
>>687558109
same can be said with bible thumpping fucks there is no prof that the fucking holy book has true history in truth it was writen by so schizophrenic prude hearing his crazy voices say what he didnt like was wrong and this dude jesus can walk on water and some how was white when he was from norther africa and was a zombie at one point in his life to just die again be cause man kind sins...... i can keep going
>>687559733
/thread
anyone who cant understand this is just retarded
>>687552264
If there was a god, fate would have it so that you had exactly every belief and that even I am writing this here. If I decide to stop typing and scrap my message, in order to escape the fate imposed by god, that new action would define a new path. There is no escape. Arguing that there isn't a god is as absurd as arguing that there is one. You're just as retarded as those you belittle.
>>687559623
So basically, dummies giving birth to super dummies, thus Catholicism -> superior dummies. all their own skewed take on the same religion.
A giant joke.
>>687559732
But the first book still exists, and contains brutal shit. The whole faith isnt about peace and love, and being an upstanding citizen. Its also about sacrifice, vengance, wrath, and so many other things
>>687558590
Take a good look at your surroundings, think and examine until you get existential anxiety. That's how I came to the conclusion that when discussing matters of how our universe came to be it's worthless to claim that your argument is logical when it's so abhorrently illogical that anything exists. I was also on shrooms but it's a solid thought.
>>687558607
>And yes they were slaves
It would be nice to have some independent reason to believe that. Too bad there's not. I just regard it as a strike against the Bible that we haven't found a shred of archaeological evidence that Israelites ever were in Egypt, despite the fact that the entire country's been picked over for centuries. Lots of artifacts, tombs, etc. thousands of years old, but not a single empirical indication of jewish slaves. Weird.
>>687559545
Genesis 11:8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
God spread them around not themselves
>>687559098
that did not answer the question yeah we got free will or is it all part of his plan?
how are we "free" if it was his plan cant have it both ways
>>687559726
>The difference with those is that all those things COULD be proven if you searched the universe.
Then just imagine undetectable teapots and garage dragons.
your right, if theres a god, must had created you and i refuse to believe in a god that created such disgusthing and attention craving creature
>>687552151
Christian logic
"Creationism is real, you cant get something from nothing, it has to be created."
Who created god?
"He is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end... blah blah."
>>687552151
If god isn't real, then how come peecha chakka no wookie boonowa tweepi solo?
Ho ho ho hooooo
Christians:0
Atheists: 0
Jabba: 1
>>687560088
you should be ignored
>>687559033
>Explain how the big bang started
Which hypothesis would you prefer?
Most likely, is that an energy state fluctuation in quantum foam measuring under the planck length resulted in a waveform collapse and rapid expansion of this particular bubble.
But that means very little unless you actually understand what half those words mean. Which you certainly do not. And I'm not going to spend a month writing out while this 404s.
>>687559949
Not /thread
Time is just a concept a human created to make routines easier. Using time as a factual dimension in thus case is just plain wrong. If you can't think outside the box and realise that it's a fallacy by paradox you're probably using your brain wrong
>>687559987
Many people have different interpretations of the bible, everyone wants to have their own take on something which is why so many books and movies get remade constantly.
There is the Bible and this is the final word.
>>687560208
Can you show me the evidence of the African slaves the different African tribes had? What kind of evidence do you want? There obviously was slaves in Egypt, back then slaves existed everywhere
>>687559991
But there is a definite split between kikes and Catholics
>while it is true that they are the same in part, Christianity has added parts that sort of amend it. I never said the Old Testament wasn't part of the bible or that the bible disregards it, only that it takes the concept of God and makes him — an infallible super being — see the error of his ways. Gosh forgives mankind for being sinful, and allows his son to sacrifice himself for the good of god's followers so that they may be delivered of their sins
>>687560381
Then I am agnostic about those! They could exist in an undetectable dimension or they could not. I'm also agnostic about there being a bunch of other universes or any other thing you can possibly think of(or can't comprehend). The truth is there is a limit to the brain and anything outside of our possible comprehension will always remain an unknown.
/b/ has proven God exists
>>687560235
And made them forget about wheels and agriculture?
>>687560816
There's a difference between not being certain of something and being agnostic.
>>687560726
The infallible being sees the error of his ways. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? The being that can make no mistakes realizes that he made a few mistakes
>>687560377
He gave us free will in the sense that we can choose to obey or disobey him. Yes he may have a plan for us and he may know what our future is but he won't interfere with that, we aren't his slaves he wont step in and say HEY STOP THAT AND DO THIS! It's up to us alone to try and live a life according to his wishes, we don't have to if we don't want to you can still live a decent life to be honest without having to follow the teachings of the Bible but in the end things may not work out.
>>687560954
Agnosticism means you are uncertain and it is impossible for you to be certain no matter how hard you tried.
>>687560871
Is it the fault of God if you don't write down your grocery list and forget what you need to buy?
>>687561109
If he knows our future that means our future is set in stone. That means our decisions are already made. That means theres no free will
>>687561120
indeicison as a odefied ratified mental illness
patheticness institutionalised impractical in uncapableness
ughhh
boot or the stone? death comeths
>>687561120
So you're agnostic about literally every empirical proposition. After all, you might be hallucinating everything right now.
>>687561109
But if he knows our futures it doesnt matter if we have free will. In his eyes our existance now is pointless.
>>687561355
We can make our own future, and God just knows he created this universe and everything in it why wouldn't he know something as simple as this?
>>687552151
It doesn't matter. All I know in this world is that I'll die, there isn't any way to know what comes after that.
And I won't spend my life trying to figure out what will.
>>687561120
It means youre certain that youre uncertain
>>687560492
You can't get "matter" from nothing. God is necessarily immaterial. The "can't get something from nothing" argument does not apply to God because he is spirit.
>>687561614
Well said. Spoken like a true agnostic
>>687561432
Yup! Pretty much! We could be a physics simulation for an advanced society
>>687561485
More than that, he was responsible for the state of the universe from the very beginning. That means that he created the universe in such a way that millions of people were condemned to Hell thousands of years before they were born. He could have created the universe a different way, but didn't. God knew then that Joe Blow from Indiana would go to Hell for masturbating because he deliberately made the universe that way.
god/s are real its the religions that are wrong human twisted everything to their will and fucked it all up!
fuck everything and everyone do what you want enjoy what you call life a pathetic speck on this rock we call earth in this small insignificant cluster of dust we call our solar system in this great void known as space
>>687561564
You cant have free will and a set future at the same time. Those two things cant coexist, as your actions are set. Things will be the same no matter what, and you will do the same thing no matter what
>>687554264
Learn what a theory actually is dipshit: http://thehappyscientist.com/content/when-does-theory-become-law
>>687561807
You guys over complicate things too much, really it's a simple concept. God knows everything, he knows what's in store for us and at the same time we have free will. He's all powerful why would this be impossible for him?
Fuckin degenerate
>>687561737
Thanks bro.
The only thing I feel like might seperate me for true agnosticism is that I believe in karma/destiny.
>>687558219
I agree with you that the tower of babel is bullshit, but his point is not an argument it's an assertion, and it's not valid or invalid because he's not really even making a point.
Here's how you build a valid argument:
P1: Using words incorrectly deteriorates their meaning
P2: Ignoring the proper use of language makes it more difficult to communicate
Conclusion: Every time you use the word "invalid" incorrectly you are bastardizing our language.
>>687562003
Youre missing the logical downfall though. Free will cant exist in a world with predefined fates. It doesnt work
>>687562003
If having free will involves having access to different courses of action at the same moment, then if God knows the future infallibly there is only one action available to you at any moment (the one God decided thousands of years ago you would make), and you don't have free will.
>>687561957
God is just too powerful a being to even understand as a human, I perfectly understand your argument and it's a good point, a very good one actually. It's also a perfect example of the free will we have, we aren't just mindless drones, he gave us the ability to question and to search for the answer independently.
This actually is a very good thing, when you question and do research and read you'll just come back to finding the bible is right.
I fully understand this is very hard for someone as an atheist to accept, it goes against everything we get taught. Reading the bible might help clear things up for you
>>687562150
Assertions dont win arguments. Facts do
>>687561109
haha fucking bible thumpper
>>687561485
>>687561355
that.... its done all your points null and invalid
>>687562187
And as I said, we cannot even begin to comprehend the way God works. To us it's just impossible, he is all powerful the whole concept of it is so hard to accept and I understand this, but again our logic doesn't apply to God what may seem completely illogical to us may just be a complete no brainer to God.
>>687559985
This.I always thought that each side arguing the existence of a god/goddess/gods.Like from the atheist point of view, if theoretically there is a god, we would live in God's world, and we would not be on the same level of existence as god, and we live in a world that god created as god pleases,so it's like any evidence is useless.And then on the theist side, if you argue there is a god because of evidence, it undermines the whole faith aspect. Faith means believing in god despite contrary evidence. It;s literally impossible to prove/disprove the existence of a god(s)/goddess.
>be agnostic anons
>>687562427
>when you question and do research and read
Yep. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
>>687562765
>we cannot even begin to comprehend the way God works.
But we can be goddamn sure he gave us free will, right?
>>687562475
Yes I am and is that so bad? Even as an atheist can you say someone who follows the moral guidelines set out by the bible is really a bad person or a bad thing to do?
>>687562873
Yes because we aren't his slaves, you can believe in the Big Bang or whatever and I can believe in the book of genesis
>>687562908
>Even as an atheist can you say someone who follows the moral guidelines set out by the bible is really a bad person or a bad thing to do?
That depends entirely on which parts of the Bible you decide to ignore.
>>687563069
>Yes because we aren't his slaves
But I thought his ways were incomprehensible to us. How are we able to attribute anything to God, let alone his actions and preferences, if he's so incomprehensible?
>>687562908
You assume hes an atheist. Im a baptised christian and ive been arguing against you for the sake of discussion. Dont jump to conclusions
>>687562442
You completely missed my point. You are correct, I agree with you, his assertion is stupid and weak, but if you are going to "win arguments" when you encounter people above retard level iq like this guy, you need to up your game.
>>687562777
trips doesn't lie, atheist agnostic it is
>>687563229
By not using the term invalid and by not showing that what they were saying was completely unlogical and irrelevant to the discussion?
>>687552151
We're all god. All of the kindness, selflessness, and mercy is the god that lives inside everybody.
>>687563095
I don't like this either, too many Christians claim to love Jesus and god but will ignore certain aspects of the Bible.
>>687563198
His power is
>>687563216
I did not mean him specifically, sorry for the confusion
>>687562427
people see in a bible what they want too see, do you agree with what the west baptist church says the bible says. or do you what the Catholics see in the bible do you see what non denominational churches see... you can have it every way if ones wrong they all have to wrong and if they are all wrong where does that leave the truth
>>687552151
You do not know everything
Therefore you cannot know that there is no God.
>>687563095
>That depends entirely on which parts of the Bible you decide to ignore.
wait for it, you'll get the "I dont ignore anything" line next...
>>687552151
"God" claims to be benevolent and all powerful. If "God" is so benevolent and so powerful, why would he turn his back on the Jews in the 1940's, or the starving africans, or any other tragedy when to someone all powerful it would be like washing your hands? He is either a) not benevolent b) not all powerful or c) neither (aka. does not exist)
>>687561957
Just because God knows what will happen does not mean he made it happen. If I travel to the future and see who wins the next World Series, my knowledge of the outcome has not determined the outcome or taken away from the fact that the outcome is determined solely by the actions of the players.
>>687563802
>You do not know everything
>Therefore you cannot know that there is no God.
You do not know everything
Therefore you cannot know that there is a God.
>>687563778
I believe what the Bible says, some churches such as the United Church of Canada believes homosexual marriage is okay when the bible very clearly condemns homosexual acts. different denominations exist because people didn't like certain aspects of the Bible so started their own church with certain aspects emphasised and others downplayed
>>687563887
Everything happens for a reason, we can't say for sure what gods intentions were but perhaps there was a lesson to be learnt in the tragedy that happened.
>>687564002
If you know the outcome, that means there can only be that one outcome. If that is the future, it is the future no matter what. Any other logic creates a paradox. Free will cant exist in this fashion
>>687564505
The reason is that people are assholes. God has nothing to do with it, or else free will and human agency is out of the picture
itt
people afraid of the unknown so they claim they know god does or does not exist
also to the guy saying he found jesus and quoting bible verses needs to fuck off
I'd like to see a scholar here who actually studies religion and can argue beyond a one dimensional point
>>687552612
you spelled quran wrong wa'iikhwanih
>>687562908
my issue is not with the fact you believe its with you when you stepped in said we were wrong for what we believed i dont go out and debate this shit with a joesmo that just walked out of a church just with dicks that try to insert themselves where they dont belong. i dont go door to door saying what you believe is wrong
but before i drop this answer 1 question name 1 thing original about the christian/catholic religion just 1 thing
>>687564918
There is no unknown. The end of the story for everyone is death, I know that very well.
Our energy may move on after death, but for who we are as individuals that's the end of the road.
>>687564173
>I believe what the Bible says
So you think that people who work on the Sabbath should be stoned to death?
And you do of course refuse to cut your sideburns, right?
and you do purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you, right?
and if you do have a son who doesnt do EXACTLY as you command, then you will have him stoned to death by the elders, right?
and so on?
or do you conveniently miss out those bits of your demented cult?
>>687565001
The Quran says God punishes the innocent on page 1 (surah 2).
>>687564545
There will only be one outcome but that doesn't mean it must've been that way. I can know the outcome of the game and that means that outcome will be the one that comes to pass. That does not, however, mean that the outcome was not caused by the players. If the players had made different choices or played differently, the outcome would have been different, and I would have seen a different outcome when I saw into the future.
Honestly this is only one theory about Hod's nature and the relationship between time, free will, and sovereignty. There are others and I haven't decided which I think is most probable.
>>687564002
>Just because God knows what will happen does not mean he made it happen.
This ignores the fact that God created the universe.
>>687564173
see there in lies an issue early on times of the bible ruling almost every war (done in the name of god) homosexuality was not a bad thing it was encouraged amongst the soldiers because they were more likely to defend the one they has a sexual bond to
>>687565842
When you looked into the future, you saw that one future. No other. That future is the one set in stone. Nothing will change events or the future seen by you
>>687565412
>one dimensional point
the issue isn't whether or not we die
we all know death is the only thing certain in this life
the issue is what happens after
you're obviously are here so you don't know for certain what the fuck actually happens
>>687565152
I'm not the guy you're talking to but how about the fact that the central human figure of Christianity claimed to be God in the flesh. No other major religion has had that claim made.
>>687566118
Correct, but that still does not mean that that particular future was determined by anything less than the free will of the actors.
>>687566173
It doesn't matter what happens.
This life, the here and now, matters.
How you treat yourself, and everyone around you matters.
What happens after your physical body goes into the ground does not.
It won't have any bearing on the contents of your life, so why be concerned with it?
>>687566551
If no other future is able to happen then the future is set and predetermined. If the events cannot be changed, they are predetermined.
>>687552151
Africans are closely related to apes.
" The p- and q-arm breakpoints of the inversions in PTR XVI and GGO XVI were found to occur at slightly different locations, consistent with their independent origin. Further, FISH studies of the homologous chromosomal regions in macaque and orangutan revealed that the region represented by HSA BAC RP11-696P19, which spans the inversion breakpoint on HSA 16q11-12, was derived from the ancestral primate chromosome homologous to HSA 1." http://genome.cshlp.org/content/15/9/1232.short
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/13/7/1619.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16140991
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/80819
http://truenewsusa.blogspot.nl/2014/06/blacks-africans-genetically-closer-to.html
And if you know that africans are the early step in evolutionhttp://www.genomica.uaslp.mx/Research/PhylogramColour.jpg
And we all originate from apeshttps://kevishere.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/primate_family_tree.png
You know africans are in fact closer to apes as is , it is very logical.
>>687566224
define major
Greek gods had Hercules
Norse gods had Thor
to name 2 and those where major until Christians killed them if they didnt convert
try again
>>687552151
This has been said many times before, but an omnipotent being can't exist, it is literally impossible. Christians say that their God can do anything, so if this is true then he should be able to make a boulder so heavy that he can't lift it. If he can't make this Boulder then he is not omnipotent, if he can then because he can't lift it he is not omnipotent. For the argument against the Christians who think that their God is 100% good, in the bible it said that he literally made evil. Also, assuming that God knows everything (like Christians do) then he would've known that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit from the tree in the garden of Eden and he still put the tree there anyways, almost as if he wanted humanity to fail.
Denying the existence of any god or superior being is just as ridiculous as saying there is a god.
Quite simple, you don't know. Nobody knows.
Prove god doesn't exist, prove god exist, you can't. So stop fucking around with your atheism or any of your faggot believing. You aren't superior to anyone by believing or not in a god.
>>687566670
never said I was concerned
I've accepted my time will come one day
my jimmies get rustled when motherfuckers say they know this or that when some of the smartest people in history dedicated their whole lives to this issue and couldn't come up with a definite answer
>>687567242
the counter to that argument is why would an almighty being do something as fucktarted as that
>>687567271
>Prove god doesn't exist,
Okay: http://www.ditext.com/mackie/evil.html
>>687567541
As what
>>687567370
The only thing someone can say for sure is they don't know... My point was that it doesn't matter.
I don't think we'll even be conscious of what's happening after we die, even if there is an afterlife. Would we even be the same?
I wouldn't want to go to heaven with all the same insecurities and flaws as in life, so if they were taken away would I even be me anymore?
>>687552993
Man has not the ability to see the future the bible predicts future events perfectly
>>687567242
Tl;dr Omnipotent beings can't exist and neither can the Christian idea of God.
>>687567767
I bet you believe in horoscopes too
>>687567242
>he would've known that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit from the tree in the garden of Eden and he still put the tree there anyways, almost as if he wanted humanity to fail.
Not to mention that he created them in such a way that they couldn't tell good from evil, or right from wrong. Now, does it make sense to punish someone who can't tell right from wrong, or more technically, cannot regulate their behavior on the basis of moral considerations? No? Then why does the Bible say God punished them?
How do we know leprechauns don't exist? You can't say for sure they don't, because they can go invisible. So it's dumb to say you know they aren't real.
>>687567866
There cant be a God of infinite love? Why?
>>687566917
I still don't see how that predetermination takes away from the free will of the participants. Suppose I know that you will choose steak at a restaurant tomorrow instead of fish. It could then be said that that action is predetermined since it WILL happen and cannon change. But has your free will been taken away? No... the predetermination was caused by your will, not by mine. I just know about the choice... I didn't make the choice for you. It could be said that God works the same way. He knows the choices we will make but that doesn't mean he's making them for us or that he forced them on us. So predetermination and free will coexist in this way.
>>687567984
No way cant bavk up horoscopes with history
>>687565152
I said you were all wrong because I believed you are, you are all saying I'm wrong because you believe I am. Is that so bad? This is a place for discussion is it not? I don't discuss religion in my everyday life because I don't like that it leads to debates, people get too angry and it leads to fights, online though it's different generally we come here expecting conflicting opinions so I doubt anyone really minds when they hear different opinions.
>>687565478
It doesn't say anything about sideburns, it says not to cut the corner of your beard. This is why Orthodox Jews grow large beards because they don't know where the corners start. Also it's very easy to point to these commands from the Old Testament which Christians don't have to follow because we have new laws. For example, with circumcision it states that if you are circumcised that Christ shall profit you nothing. Jews don't believe Christ is the son of God so they don't have this command, Christians do which is why we don't circumcise even though the Old Testament demands we do. It's just we don't cut out the Old Testament because we still believe it and it would make no sense to remove those commands in it.
>>687566117
The only example of this existing was in Ancient Greece, most societies and cultures all throughout history condemned homosexuality.
>>687568071
Infinite love. Ha, good one. Tell that to sodom and gomorrah. They got tons of love sent their way
>>687567178
I sort of meant someone who actually existed and actually made the claim. Hercules and Thor did not exist.
>>687568071
There can be, however the Christian idea of God is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and all knowing. To know why he can't be all three at once, see the above argument.
The point of religion isn't to base it off facts. I can't prove to you that God exists but I believe he does. Fuck off with you pushing your atheist beliefs and let people believe what they want and not have to prove jack shit to you
>>687553114
Lulz.
No its not. God doesn't speak to anyone in the bible, and when God does its indirectly, or in third person. Not even Jesus speaks to God, and Moses was talking to a bush.
When it is the supposed words of God, it's through a messenger.
The whole Bible is a fairy tale, stories of how to survive in the desert, and what the moral norms were of the day. It's fuckery.
>>687568094
>I didn't make the choice for you. It could be said that God works the same way. He knows the choices we will make but that doesn't mean he's making them for us or that he forced them on us
God made the choices about who would go to heaven and who would go to hell when he created the universe. The fact of the matter is that no one can do other than what God determined them to do thousands of years ago.
>>687568315
Prove it
>>687564505
It must mean he's an asshole. If there is a god, he is an asshole.
>>687566224
let me narrow it down for you
the halo ---- was the symbol for the egyptian sun god
most holidays where taken from pagan celebrations of life
at a point they even buried the dead facing the east
all that is to pull in other believes to convert why would they need to take other religions believes to make them convert if its truth that alone would pull them in
>>687567178
>>687567551
That doesnt prove shit. I mean prove any god exist, any form of god, not that jew-god shit we all came up by thinking in God.
>>687552151
Yes his name is shrek
>>687568513
When someone puts down a sick pet would you call them a heartless murderer? How can we know what Gods intentions were?
>>687568094
The predetermination means there was no choice in the matter to begin with, since its going to happen no matter what. Youre going to choose it no matter what. You can even have chose it thinking youre defying fate, only to be following fate by thinking youre being free and doing exactly what was destined anyway
>>687568029
Knows nothing of God pretends hes a theologian adam was created in Gods image sinless perfect basicly jesus that is why we call him the second adam eve wad made from adams body eve is the mother of man.man listend to satan instead of god
Adam loved eve so much that he gave his eterna
Life so they woulnt be seperated God didnt make anyone sinfull it was our choice
I don't really care about these arguments over whether or not religion is true. I choose to instead listen to The Offspring.
>>687568568
Then it's not just god(s) you need to worry about. Would you characterize yourself as a leprechaun agnostic? What about the thousands of invisible, immaterial pipe-hitting niggers in the room with you right now?
>>687568315
who are you to say they didnt exist were you there?
what prof do you have
none you weren't there and just because a religion you say is truth said that religion is a myth dont make it the truth
>>687569157
See, but God knew it would happen because he is all knowing, so he could've stopped it but instead chose to let man become sinful.
>>687569157
That doesn't address the issue of God punishing the blameless.
>>687568442
Why do you say God made the choices when he created the universe? I see no reason to believe God sat there and wrote the entire story and all the details from beginning to end and made all of our choices for us. If that were the case then all of human existence would be a sham. And even if he didn't make EVERY decision for us but only decided who would go to hell, that would still kind of make him an evil sadist.
>>687568297
You know thaay where not killed just because they where gay they where also horrible fucking people they make this place look like a church
>>687568832
What if there's just multiple fates?
Like one of those choose your own story books, there's important points where you make decisions, things that you don't even know will matter, and it picks your course.
Each decision was already written.
>>687569391
>If that were the case then all of human existence would be a sham. And even if he didn't make EVERY decision for us but only decided who would go to hell, that would still kind of make him an evil sadist.
Hey you'll get no argument from me.
>>687554583
what makes you say there is no science backing up the theory of evolution? do you have a more logical explanation? also, theory isn't just a label stuck onto things & ideas, they are the most thoroughly researched claims of science, regarded as fact by those studying the subject a theory is about.
You are all wrong. Our real Lord is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
>>687569423
I know. It was because they were assholes to the angels, and not the gay shit. But they still all got murdered out of vengance. All encompassing love should be given to the assholes too
>>687569423
In math we call it an invalid proof to say that everyone of one particular thing also does one particular thing (e.g. All football players eat chicken parm) so it is unlikely that ALL residents were terrible people.
>>687568557
All that is true. Christians have been borrowing ideas from other faiths for a long time. No denying that. I don't think they had to... I just think that they thought they had to. People are flawed, manipulative, etc. But the point I made was that Jesus claimed to be God. No other religion has a central human figure (that actually existed) which claimed to be God.
>>687568364
We are fallen,evil.rebelious there is no reason for him to do anything to help us. He did anyway jesus/God gave his life for us so we may live forever the gift is free
>>687552151
Worship the guardians of the beam where your world lies.
You owe your continued existence to Maturin and Shardik.
>>687569342
Why would he stop something he gave freewill to
>>687569513
Then the future wouldnt be able to be seen because theres several different outcomes. Infinite outcomes in the case of our lives because theres always a variation on a choice made. You cant know the future if you dont know which choice will be made at every single point. And if you do, you guessed, or it was all set from the start.
>>687552151
I don't know but sweet lord those titties give me faith
sauce?
>>687569898
You see, but God knew that we would fall and become rebellious and, since he's all knowing, he knew how to stop us from becoming sinful and yet chose not to. Tell me how that is a loving God.
>>687556582
why having tattoos is considered a sin?
>>687569275
I'm not sure if I should even take this seriously or not. If we cannot start on common ground in the fact that Thor and Hercules were not real, then I don't think a proper debate can even occur.
1 to 9 god does not exist
>>687570129
You can't know the future for sure, but you can get a good idea from it if all the options were laid it before you.
For example, there is a low chance that it's my destiny to end up in jail for murder. Anyone who knows me would say this. But I could change my destiny from a normal life to one in prison by spontaneously shooting someone in the face.
>>687570067
Because he is supposed to be all good, and thus be completely against evil. However by not intervening he allowed evil to happen, therefore your omnibenevolent God cannot really be omnibenevolent.
>>687552151
wow, didn't even post the rest of the pics.
for shame.
>>687569822
Not because what they did to the angels it..they coved a woman witj bees because she helped a man who the whole of sodom was trying to starve to death and many many othet things
>>687569898
But fuck everyone before jesus, as well as those killed in his name during the crusades and because of the inquisition too. They burn in hell because reasons and shit
>>687570286
Prove that they weren't real
>>687570389
Theres infinite outcomes. How can you get the general idea of the future from infinite paths
>>687569647
Ha. Well that's why I refuse to believe free will and predetermination are mutually exclusive. And logically I don't think they have to be. I also think there are other reasonable explanations for their relationship, like molinism or that God is not actually timeless.
