What's your excuse for Not having a rich full beard like
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
What's your excuse for Not having a rich full beard like this b/ros?
>>680522823
I have a job
>>680522823
I try but it only grows on my neck
>>680522823
I'm a female.
I'm 15
>>680522823
20, can only grow some thin dirty shit on my chin and lip. Feels bad man
>>680522928
Why does ur job stop u?
I am half Persian and I cannot grow a majestic beard. Le sigh
>>680522823
I've lost my rimmed glasses and my flannel shirt
>>680522823
I don't want to suddenly have to brag about how great beards are
>>680523082
Because it's a high paying office job that has stupid dress requirements such as no facial hair
>>680523001
>>680522823
Half way there guy
>>680522823
Its too damn hot for facial hair
>>680523263
I'm sure 90% of /b/ is under the age of 18. If you're over 18,still here jerking off to facebook and posting steam begging threads, it's pretty much all over for you.
>>680522823
I have a family, a career, a social life, and personal hygiene / grooming standards. You fucking dirty hippie
>>680522823
I'm not a Viking
>>680523351
I'm 9 months in on my yeard, u?
>>680523367
Are u a man, or a fucking female? Deal with it!
>>680522823
Dirty Indian fucked by one of my English great great great great great great grandfathers.
One drop of impurities into my lineage.
>>680522823
I'm a girl
>>680523418
Haha I have have a family, a careere, a social life to, its all about choice.
>>680523643
If you grow it, they will come!
>>680523643
Get in line, you lonely faggot. That card has already been played:
>>680522988
>>680523465
About 4 or 5. Im not gonna stop till I reach Gandalf status
>>680523643
Why should that stop you, you fucking casual
>>680522823
Sometimes I like to consume sandwiches without having to take a fucking shower afterwards.
>>680522823
not a muslim. Civilized men shave
Nice beard /b/rother!
>>680523230
I feel you man
>>680523774
Awesome! I´ve got my sights on a second year after this one!
>>680523001
MODS MODS MODS
>>680523855
Ever heard of a wash basin? Or do you rub your sandwiches all over your body as well?
>>680523855
I do agree, sandwiches/burgers are the bane of beards. But anything that won't wipe out, gets showered out at night!
>>680523855
I eat whatever the fuck I want, it´s all about how you eat mf!
>>680523855
Kek
>>680523901
when did u last shave?
Because beards have the same hair-type as your pubic hairs. I don't want to be a literal dickhead.
>>680522823
Way to jump on the beard trend 5 years late, step your shit up.. It's not even over 12"
>>680523881
So, bcuz I have a rich, full beard, I´m a fucking sandnigger?
>>680522823
I have it
i dont like it being too long, i shortened it yesterday because i like it looking clean, not like a hobo's.
>>680523901
You are my inspiration. God bless you mighty wizard
>>680524155
Shave completely? 10+ years ago. This is the 2nd time I've let it grow in. Current growth Nov 2015 - Now.
>>680522823
I'm not a trendy hipster faggot.
>>680524166
Yeah this is not true at all. I'm pretty sure you're autistic friend
>>680524258
Thank you kind gentleman! You shall achieve glory one day!
>>680524166
What your saying is, you have 2 beard hairs groing from your neck?
>>680524249
So post it!
>>680524254
Weak sauce, 2/10
>>680523901
Nice JUST hair, Ray Liotta.
Hobo good as well?
>>680524334
Nice 1! Im july - present!
MEH it's sorta full
>>680524371
Hipsters can fucking kill themself. What does hipsters have on beards? Had a full rich beard before all this hipster bullshit.
>>680522823
I have a strong chin
>>680524587
8/10, very nice. This man has his A game on
>>680524660
Same
>>680524464
That just look like a feminzai snatch! Let it gro b/ro
>>680522823
We have a word for men without beards. Women.
>>680522823
no desire to look like a beta faggot.
>>680524509
hobo better let it grow!
>>680524226
not yet, but you are adapting to their culture, you fucking haji
What I use
>>680524660
Tough shit, faggots with man buns are stealing it from you.
>>680524803
This^
>>680522823
Because I have a job that sometimes requires a respirator.
>>680522823
because I looked like a fucking hipster back in 2008 when hipsters didn't fucking exist yet.
I am an androgynous manbitch now.
>deal with it you cunt you missed the boat
>>680524660
sure you did
>>680524843
On the way but shaved for job interview
>>680524893
I prefer to keep mine lusterous and full with the tears of my enemies
>>680524735
this is before trimming....can't grow it out too long i'm a medfag
getting there. Have to style it and stuff but I never know what to do with it once it gets this big.
>>680524863
I will fucking do a full on alluh akbar on those sand niggers before I adapt to their culture. Meatbeals and smorgosbords til death.
>>680522823
I'm working on it. Normally I can't stand to let it grow out more than about 2 inches but I'm trying to resist trimming it.
>>680524991
THIS is the only valid excuse.
>>680524991
This
Got to be clean shaven to use dust masks and resps on construction sites
>>680525121
Looks good!
They just ain't got enough testosterone, it's all right they just look up to us and our loud Viking godlike laughter.
>>680522983
Because you're a fat fuck
>>680525137
Fuck style it and stuff! Do a yeard bro!
>>680525229
>>680525238
I work at a plant, so re-breathers and supplied air respirators are needed.
>>680525211
Do it! Its all about patience! If u wait, it will grow!
>>680525229
Respirator, yes!
>>680525366
This is a great beard.
This is what you faggots look like, hipsters.
Neatly trimmed is back.
Because firefighters can't have beards.
>>680525366
This^ /OP
>>680522823
I got 3 inches on you.
>>680525717
Hipsters is dead.
>>680525538
>>680525646
yea i'm going into fire/ems so once i hit the academy i'll be beardless sadly
>>680525830
Oh, my, god, man! You do! Great freakin work! U shouldnt trim your stach tho! /op
>>680523047
exactly the same situation here bro, I know dat feel
I've had sex with men, but you guys are faggots.
>>680526010
I believe sir, that u are the faggot amongst us! As u are fucking "men", per say.. /op
>>680522823
Because I dont want to look like a terrorist or child molester.
>>680526342
Terrorist, whats ur color son?
>>680522823
fuck em all OP that beard is awesome - leave /b/ and go enjoy life and tickle the ladies with that stache
>>680522823
I dont think it's cool, and i'm not lazy.
>>680526491
Thanks! Posted this just to see the response. The ladies love the stache, for all u out there whitout one..!
>>680522823
I don't have a beard because I am not a vaping douchebag.
Second, it is insanely unsanitary. There have been studies done and there is so much fecal matter in your beard...
Also, most guys with beards are unkempt. They look like a fucking hobo.
Go kill yourselves and take your gay ass beards with you.
Most of you can't even change a god damned tire.
>>680526877
/thread
>>680526778
Having a beard is about patience, not laziness, ur lazy if u shave to look like a feminazi! /op
>>680526852
Most ladies that love "the stache" as you put it are nasty ass bitches that I would not even touch if I was paid
I'm working on it but I grew out my stache first. I don't give a shit how thin the sides are!
>>680522823
>It looks ugly as fuck
>food and shit gets stuck there
>I'm not an orthodox priest or a muslim shitskin
>fuck beards
whats the deal with beard oil? What is proper beard maintenance? I dont know the way yet. Usually just keep beard at length in pic because I'm lost past that.
>>680527041
kek
>>680526877
I'm a licensed welder, truck driver, and mechanic. Its unsanitary, sure, i give u thats, but i´m not even sick half the time u none bearded /bros are, bcuz my body adapts to the bacteria im exposed to. Bet my fucking live ur a IT guy, dont even own a car. /op
>>680522823
i like having sex with women and contributing to society
>>680526877
>don't vape
>work in professional medical environment so i must be dressed well
>can weld/fabricate
>can skin a buck and run a trout line
your argument is invalid
>>680527034
Nice try.... I've grown a beard when i was younger by accident because I was too lazy to shave. No patience involved i dont know what makes you think it involves work at all.
>>680527253
is your facial hair dry? if you keep it at that length you probably don't need beard oil.
>>680527078
This
>>680527253
Mainly beard oil is just gonna help keep the skin underneath moisturized so it doesn't give off that gross dandruffy shit.
Because I'm clean and prefer not to smell and taste beard all day. + Self respect...you faggot
>>680527471
unless you work in a makeshift somalian infirmary hospitals require you to keep your face clean shaven. hell most fast food places dont allow beards.
>>680524079
contrarians are the biggest cucks of all
>hurr if something is trendy then it must be bad - only a douchebag would like popular things
>>680527253
Fuck beard oils, fuuuuuck maintenance, just let it grow, wash it as u wash ur hair, like the vikings did. It worked then, it works now. I do it, and I have no problems what so ever.
>>680527503
the hard part is the stache. people tell me they wish they could grow a stache like mine when they have thicker facial hair than me, but they just can't put up with getting it their mouth every time they eat.
>>680527436
makes sense... you have a job that doesn't require for you to look professional. I'd grow a beard and "look manly" too if I didn't have to give a fuck about looking presentable.
>>680527723
THIS i use the honest amish stuff but i'm going to switch it up
>>680527471
This to^ / op
>>680522823
I don't like them
>>680527776
did i say hospital?? where i work there are no regulations on facial hair
>>680527503
Try having your stache touch the bottom of your chin, and say its not about patience!
>>680527471
I can tell you are lying unless by "working in the medical industry" you mean just running supplies to various clinics and hospitals.
Anything that requires contact with patients especially anything surgical in nature would most likely require you to shave that shit.
>>680522823
I'm the reincarnation of Caius Iulius Ceasar, and we Romans, sons of the Republic, shave our faces.
>>680526877
I don't vape, nor have I ever smoked.
Unsanitary, sure I have no doubt it is. But I am rarely sick, I guess when I'm in my 60s and have cancer out of no where I'll know what to blame.
Not unkempt, sorry. I keep my hair short, but I do let my beard grow.
Definitely not gay, been with my wife for 10 years.
And here's a shot from a video I had to make in some bullshit college class. Protip: It's me teaching people how to change a tire.
I work as a defense contractor, IT field.
Have a good day!
>>680527823
Patience, as I´ve said.. /op
>>680522823
I have self respect. A girlfriend who isn't a tattoo covered crack whore. I have a Good job. I don't try to hide my insecurities behind passing fashion trends and accessories.
Many reasons. A beard is fine if you're in construction or some other low education life. But in the real world it just doesn't fly.
>>680528113
not surgical
RDMS RVT for an independent lab
>>680528074
That's gross... I dont shit on my bed and sleep on it every night and call it patience, neither should you.
>>680528192
Does your wife get some sort of government kick back by marrying someone with a downs syndrome face?
Because she should...
>>680526877
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/306321.php
Enjoy dying bro
>>680522823
I'm a prison officer and giving prisoners anything to hold on to when attacking me is stupid.
I have stubble and a buzz cut, it is cheap and stops me from being grabbed as much, it is also low maintenance.
>>680527824
Haha ok, some men are men, then theirs your kind!
>>680528452
Aww that's not nice =( I haven't seen you!
>>680528192
You look hypertensive
>>680528618
Probably am! Oh well.
>>680528291
It´s odd, we don´t have many crack whores where I live? Oh, I dont live in the fucking Us of A!
>>680527814
Beard oil is to moisturize the skin beneath, it's not a magical growth thing that everyone thinks. You will get flaky skin underneath which drops off and looks gross once your beard gets to a significant length.
>>680528359
So, bcuz I have a beird, I shit in my bead? Whats ur argument?
>>680528457
This is a valid argument!
>>680528844
>beird
>bead
are you okay buddy
>>680528951
Drunk swede fuck. proud I even get by captcha/ op
>>680528457
ya ok sounds good
>>680529074
lol cheers
>>680528618
topkek
>>680529195
Cheers mate!
I'm not a hipster faggot.
>>680522823
i have a better jawline than you
>>680529357
this x 10T
>>680523901
Majestic beard, I envy you.
>>680528464
some men can write, then there's illiterate hairless posturing 12-year-olds like you :)
>>680529734
Danke Herr
>>680529757
Again, drunk swede fuck. Whats ur excuse?
i do have a beard? ive won awards too
>>680530131
Awesome beard sir!
Signing off here b/ros! Not bad for a first ever /thread!
Cheers to all you bearded b/ros! Fuck you feminzis who didn't have a valid point!
Godnatt! som vi säger på svenska! / Op
>>680522823
I cut it off.
>>680525830
Once again dude, I'm pretty sure you are my friend Dustin, or you have a dicking Teton and his name is Dustin... Uncanny
That, my good sir, is a proper beard!
I'm 25 and my beard doesn't grow full like that, I get very little upper lip hair. . what am I doing wrong :(
>>680530536
genetics, thats whats wrong!
>>680522823
>tfw as hairy as Robin Williams but can't grow a proper beard
I can literally grab handfuls of hair anywhere on my body, thighs, legs, ass, and facial hair grows incredibly fast... it's just poker straight and silky like my head hair. It's not dense enough to look like that. If I grow it out, it goes full on fu manchu.
I do have a beard like that.
>>680527047
This looks like shit.
>>680522823
Because i dont live with my parents anymore
>>680527047
Ew dude. Trim those sides at least, so it looks like you want them Short. The stringy look just looks bad
>>680524254
Shmdy?
I shave
What men look like
try and fuck with my epic beard pro tip you cant
but i have one OP, feels good man
>>680522823
Because I own my own restaurant and lead by example. For food sanitation I make sure all my employees are clean shaven and to be fair I make sure I am as well. (Especially when I have to fire a chef for coming in drunk AGAIN so I have to help pick up the slack in the kitchen.)
Genetics
>>680523047
Hahahah same bro. Just realize nobody gives a shit
>>680531335
By Zeus!!
>>680531335
i just did?
No excuse.
I'm home today with a gnarly cold so I'm getting stoned and drunk in the shed.
I swear, if i ever get enough money, i would get a hair Transplantation into my fuckface for a majestic beard
>>680531000
I´m 26 and havent lived with my parents for over 10 years, have a close relationship with them tho /op
>>680530224
its won awards too!
>>680530131
Are you part bear?
Because I'm amish
>>680531854
nice beard but you look like a hipster faggot
>>680532049
had to, beard competition.
>>680531544
So u run a mcdonalds? Ur snooping around 4chan and claims u own a restaurant... just saing..
>>680523082
>>680522928
I have a high paying office job but I am an engineer so they expect me to have a beard
>>680531945
but google doesnt count
>>680532160
I said I own a restaurant, not a franchise. Besides, everyone's got their vices. /b/ is one of mine.
>>680522823
Still growing it, only 6 months in
>>680530924
>>680531032
yo it's hilarious everybody's been telling me they like it. I'm not trimmin my beard for nobody, and i got a girlfriend so fuck all y'all
Started letting it grow about 4 weeks ago now, still deciding whether I should go full Viking or have it styled in some way.
>>680531945
Hey I'm this guy:
>>680531865
I'm curious as to what products you use.
I'm liking beardbrand stuff lately. What's the best in your opinion? I'm coming up on a year here sometime in July.
>>680522823
I have a job and I'm not a poor faggot that works outside like a nigger.
>>680522823
My beard is a liberal and won't work.
>>680524254
thats disgusting
>>680522823
Because my beard is darker than my hair and I think it looks bad. I just grow moustache
>>680531335
>>680531854
ya he doesn't trim his moustache like you do
>>680522823
I'm a grillllllllll
>>680532522
go full yeard bro!
Unfortunately I am unable to grow a beard, but I am growing the best mustache I can
>>680532281
Miss me with that bull shit
>>680532949
Tits or GTFO
Cause I'm in the military faggot
>>680522823
Iim not an attention seeking dickcheese
>>680522823
Because I don't want my face smelling like shit all the time. Unless you're living out in the fucking wilderness, choppin trees down and hanging with bears, cut that shit off your face, you trendy dipshit poser.
>>680533008
Yeah, my bad! / op
I hate looking like a hipster douche
>>680522823
You look like one of the fabled dwarven women from Lord Of The Rings.
>>680523047
Same here, fuckers always ask if I shaved recently.
>>680533056
No, unless you post your dick.
Besides I don't like them as one is much bigger than the other so looks strange
>>680533363
MUCH bigger? I'm intrigued,
>>680533008
But I´m gunning for ya!
>>680522823
That shit looks terrible. You know you can trim the moustache right?
The soul patch is all fucked up too. At least make the soul patch look decent, don't try to comb it over.
>moustache over lips
>constantly feels like your eating pubes
Get it together op.
>>680522823
Do you hunt ducks by any chance?
>>680522823
Who says I dont?
>>680533363
tits or gtfu! /op
>>680533509
Yeah one is about the size of a honey melon, the other is about the size of a walnut, has been since I was 12
>>680522823
I'm not a lumberjack viking faggot
>>680532986
That's a respectable mustache.
I've got a hell of a beard, but a pretty weak 'stache. I grow it long anyway but it's kinda stringy-lookin' sometimes.
>>680533575
Google yeard my old freind! the soul patch just grows like that, not combing anything over./ op
>>680533592
why/ op
>>680522823
But I do have one faggot
>>680523230
So shit tier. Sucks to be you.
>>680533848
post or gtfu /op
Hipster beards were so 2015. Its all about how much hair you can cultivate on your sack, taint, and asshole.
>>680522823
slavic genetics, I can grow a beast mustache though.
beards are for fags
>>680524991
You could still have a neatly trimmed mustache.
thought this thread would have died out by now, cant let it go until it does! /op
>>680522823
Because I have a good job faggot
>>680533848
>>680533893
>>680533718
For science a pic?!
>>680534054
Nice! /op
Been getting caught in my food lately, might chop it down a chunk but I'd rather not get all the
>oh anon you changed, you should have done something else with yourself instead.
>>680533787
Thanks for the info. Mine looks pretty disheveled and wild today because I'm home sick.
Snot really does a number on the mustache, it's fuckin' gross.
I actually have a beard wash and softener that I'll use in the shower and then an oil I'll apply. Smells nice and keeps things under control.
I assume the biotin is for the promotion of hair growth? Where would one acquire this stuff? It's commonly available I take it?
Again, thanks for the info.
>>680533925
>cockbeards
kek
>>680527047
Absolutely disgusting. Trim that mess to even it out.
>>680522823
I want to fuck every now and then
>>680522823
I have a burn scar on my chin that doesn't allow certain parts to grow, so it looks weird when I try.
>>680534273
yeah, any vitamin shop, walgreens, fuck i got mine at a target......
and no problem man, keep it growin!
>>680534048
>having no excuse
Feminized cuck detected.
>>680534173
Dude, tame that fucking thing. I mean it's cool you can grow such a hench beard at a young-ish age but you look like a scummy muslim. Trim it down, shape it so it suits your face shape and brush the fucking thing.
>>680527047
Hell of a mullet you got goin there anon... I'm betting you're a nascar fan too huh?
>>680534165
I am actually in the bmj from 2003.
Pictures from the front and sides, has weight measurement and circumference details.... Have been offered a free implant for the walnut sized breast to make it even with the melon sized one or a reduction of the big one to make it the same as the walnut sized breast. Haven't done either yet though as I may still even out but as I'm 17 it's unlikely so will need to opt for one in the next year or so
>>680534568
Valid argument /op
Unbeknownst to the 4chan users, this was actually an ISIS/Jihadi recruitment thread. They're looking for good beards. Don't be surprised is we start seeing the IS wearing scarves and flannels in the months to come.
>>680534568
Sorry to hear that man. Get that shit like lasered off so you don't have to shave near the scars
>>680534516
so, you got a micro penis? /op
>>680532986
Get rid of the chin stubble and unibrow and you're a success story
>>680534568
It's the Yellow King.
I'm ready to go with you to Carcosa.
Beards are for degenerates.
>>680522823 im preety i dont need moss on my face
>>680534713
Shavings actually no problem, I even use a straight razor sometimes. But yeah, already have 6 months of appointments set up starting in November.
I get hair growing easy enough on most of my face, jawline, sideburns, tache yada yada, but the areas to the sides of the mouth (y'know, between tache and rest of beard) just never gets hair, fucking annoys me. Besides that, my beard/tache is quite wiry, any tips for that?
>>680534516
You DON'T have a beard because you DO want to fuck.
You're clearly confused.
>>680534682
Pure bullshit
>>680534173
You look like the result of an alien fucking a Muslim that had the offspring raised in the mountains of Tennessee
>>680524254
If you think that looks clean and you've gotten away from the "hobo" look I've got some bad news for you bro.
>>680534682
bmj, more info needed. Depending on your body type you could probably do the melon size implant, but if you're smaller, the extra weight might be horrible for you. My wife is 110lbs and wears an H bra...we're gonna do a reduction soon.
>>680534568
Yeah but scars are manly as fuck /b/ro.
>>680534696
Are u fucking seriussss?
>>680535035
Wasn't that an x-files episode?
>>680534803
Kek
>>680534696
Seriously.. Goatfuckers like yourself can fuck goats by yourself /op
>>680535084
British medical journal
>>680535096
super cereal, dude.
>>680522823
all the estrogen in my frozen dinners
>>680522823
Because it stinks in the summertime.
>>680535206
Not Op, but ok, I'll go fuck your mom anytime. Shes a slut.
>>680535084
>We're
Faggot
>>680535328
take a shower once in a while you filthy faggot
I actually have a fairly decent beard, I don't grow it as long as that though.
>>680535440
post a pic nigger
>>680534680
you're quick to make assumptions eh?
>>680527800
Áctually, no. People who stake no claim of their own in any arena of life, choosing instead to follow the trends of the day (such as adopting the word "cuckold" and turning into a shorthand slang insult with no meaning) are just a low tier of humanity. It's beards, then man buns, then whatever comes next. Confident and interesting people don't change their style over time to fit in with their subculture of choice, at least once they grow out of adolescence.
>>680522823
I'm Chinese and can't grow facial hair until I'm 60 and have mastered kung fu.
>>680534371
but then how do I get it long?
>>680535352
Im op, what u talking bout sandnigger?
>>680535613
you stroke it for a bit.
>>680535509
So, instead of a mullet, you have KidRock style stringy ass, white trash long hair? I'm not seeing much of a difference.
>>680527047
Trim around your lip and neaten up the sides and you're good to go.
>>680535369
Sorry to offend you... When you're with someone long enough you start talking like that. Plus I'll be paying for it, so ya it becomes a WE thing.
>>680522823
but I do, not so well groomed because I aren't a hipster faggot though, I've got a wild beard with a shaved head
>>680535522
dubs and valid point, 2 for 2. /op
>>680532986
Looks awsome dude
>>680522823
I have a beautiful face.
>>680535658
No, I'm OP. What are you trying to do to my thread?
OP here. Guys love it when my face pubes tickle their buttholes.
>>680535803
Good luck hope it works out. Not sure if I'll go with reduction or implant as my friend who has ff cups gets bad back ache so maybe smaller to match is the way I'll go.
It's itchy, food gets in it, and once you shave you will notice all sorts of pimples and shit
>>680535900
He's mad because his inferior genetics won't allow beard growth on his filthy philistine face.
>>680532986
It's weird you'd go to all that effort with the tache but allow your creeping monobrow and chin fluff to ruin it.
>>680535613
You even out the length as it grows. It takes time, but it doesnt look as trashy.
For example, when I grow mine out, I'll use a 5 on my clippers to trim. Then the next week I'll adjust to a 7. Etc, etc... it looks clean and still gets longer
>>680536155
Bearded men have lower levels of bacteria on their faces.
Stay mad, babyfaced pleb.
I'm 23 and I'd love to grow a full beard but even when I wait for a whole month, I get a very irregular one.
Basically I'm normally growing beard on 70% of the "beard zone", but for the rest it's very weak (upper cheek mainly) for these parts i've to wait like 2 weeks before a single hair grows.
How can I fix this ?
>>680536338
Yeah because all that nasty shit gets caught in that rats nest. And that is bullshit, shaving and cleaning a smooth face is much better than having to aimlessly try and shampoo a bush
>>680522823
Finn here, had to condition my facial hair first, am now at about 1/2 of that after 2 months or so
Preparing to go full viking
>>680536338
Because the bacteria all migrate into the gay assholes bearded men are constantly tongue-lashing.
>>680535900
>>680536056
Try another thread, butfags
>>680536338
Bullshit. Proteins are a magnets for oil & bacteria. Do the research before you shitpost.
Dermatologist here btw.
>>680536614
Lol REKT
Not the longest I've had it and it gets patchy near my cheeks since I'm 20. But my family has strong beard genes. There's some nice beards in here.
>>680536570
Oh fuck, babyface mcwhite!
>>680536599
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
You defend circumcision as well?
>>680536654
*buttfags
Try a dictionary, beardcuck.
>>680536730
Sorry for dumbass sideways pic
