FEEL THE BERN, 4CHAN LOSERS
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
FEEL THE BERN, 4CHAN LOSERS
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, 4CHAN LOSERS
>>676957461
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH
>>676957582
I saw cracked.com compare him to Berlusconi.
That was a ridiculously good comparison. Except even Berlusconi would think Trump is kind of a racist.
>>676957461
Thanks chan outreach program. Here take my 20 cuck ed points
Am I still running?
>>676957582
America!!!!!!!!!!!
>>676957847
>taking anything adam todd brown says seriously
>reading cracked and not immediately laughing at their obvious sjw agenda
>mfw cracked will mever go back to how it used to be
>>676957461
No, I will not feel the bern
>>676957582
>hates "the jews"
>wants to make monopoly man the god-emperor
Wow, you dumbfucks sure know how to stick it to the man, don't you? Good work, house niggers.
>>676957461
I'm feeling it, comrade
>>676957461
his people felt the bern alright.
>>676957461
>>676957847
And this is why Trump is officially endorsed by /b/™
>>676959625
Wants gib dats instead of working for wealth. Whats the point of working hard to have ur monies taken away.
Gib me dat bbc im too lazy to do anything
If Bill was never president would Hillary be running?
>>676960885
>>676962926
>believing this
>>676957461
Why dont one of you niggers impregnate a trump daughter so we can see where he ACTUALLY feels about abortion. So sick of seeing him pander to hicks
>>676962926
this is true
only in an homogenous society where we can all agree on what we want.
but niggers make this impossible.
I'm a socialist. I believe in socialism. However, I understand it can't work in america. It will fail because niggers who have been generations on welfare will never accept the work that each individual has to do for the society to continue.
>>676957951
https://youtu.be/6GOuseeGK3w
>>676963321
That's the problem. You would rather believe than know - you live in a reactionary mythology. It's precisely why your anger is so impotent and why none of your actions challenge the corrupt power structure of our dying society.
>>676963822
this has to be the most ridiculous thing I've read today. for starters, black people were not invited to even participate in our capitalist society until post civil rights movement. the communities were living in squaller and the ghettos well established in the 100+ years leading to civil rights. socialism can and will work for everybody once we address the issue of income inequality intros country and also the complete decriminalization of drugs. you change the environment you change the people. social engineering is not difficult.
>>676957461
Pure socialism and pure capitalism are both retarded. The only good economic system is mix of both.
Min wage should be >12 an hour
Government should tax the rich and not the poor, and should split giant corporations to create competition
>>676964058
>the state will take care of you
>the state is not corruptable
If you are so in love with workers controlling production, why not have them unionize? But no lets hand over the means of production to the government, they always have our best interest at heart, right?
>but but thats isnt socialism
Really? Unions are more socialist than having a government regulate
>>676964326
no, it's not. you can't change a whole culture. I agree it's an income issue. if you provide an incentive to work over leeching it might work, but that won't happen. wages won't encourage people who haven't had to work to work.
I want it to work so badly anon, I want the workers to unite, to make the world a better place for all, but sadly we'll never get that utopian dream.
>>676964549
>lets hand over the means of production to the government
That's not implied by socialism. That's the Cold War strawman version of socialism. The definition of socialism is and has always been the emancipation of the people through elimination of private ownership of capital and the democritization of the economy. Socialism is not just when "the government owns businesses".
There is an entire branch of socialist thought devoted to achieving revolution through unionization and union action - it's called syndicalism. And at the micro level, many modern socialists envision businesses simply being run democratically by their workers.
>>676964922
>utopia
It is a myth anon.
>>676965183
Then do that dummy. We have the means to do that now, yet no one does. We better do it quick too, because bernies socialism is not like that. His is government regulation in the name of the worker
>>676962926
This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. What the FUCK are they teaching you kids these days?
>>676964922
in 1830 it was about democracy and freedom not socialism which didn't exist at the time
the Communist manifesto was published in 1848
>>676957461
Yeah lets bloat up more the welfare state. Give those born with vaginas an unfair advantage. Continue to exploit minorities. Have more people depend on governmental system that does more harm then good. Lets say that if you are worth a certain percentage your earning will go to those that hate and despise you though they secretly wish they were you. Socialism has proven that works right? RIGHT!!!!
>>676964326
"socialism can and will work for everybody once we..."
Really? Let's put it quite simply.
You want me to work in Factory A to contribute my part to society. I refuse to do it.
Now what, faggot?
>>676964416
No
If you want more than your neighbour you go out and get more.
Why does the rich get taxed to take care of sum?
Division of wealth does increase its value.
It makes everybody else worthless.
>>676965427
>We have the means to do that now, yet no one does
There is a difference between allowing worker cooperatives and outlawing the private ownership of capital. The latter is required to take away the power base of the capitalist ruling class.
>>676965676
Top kek
>>676965678
you go to gulag
you get sick
you die before you're released or shortly after
>>676965626
liberty my friend, true liberty will be the onset of the liberty from the banks who hold the poor hostage, from a system that tells you to sit down and shut up while espousing muhfreedoms. Liberty is what that is about, and yea i'm here to say that the socialist revolution if done correctly will be about liberty.
>>676965816
Oh ho ho. You almost had me.
Sneaky sneaky
>>676965934
And hence socialism only works under a police state where individual liberty is destroyed.
Good talk.
>>676966025
No, anarchy is the purest form of liberty
>>676964922
You're clearly not yet a socialist, even if you're interested in socialist ideas. You are blaming the victim of class conflict; yes, the behaviors are antisocial, but they're certainly understandable in the context of severe exploitation and generations of abuse.
CANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMPCANT STUMP THE TRUMP
>>676959885
>that image
old meme. what was the original?
>>676966139
this
but it's going to be brutal
>>676957461
No one can beat this man. A man of platinum
>>676965427
>bernies socialism is not like that
Bernie's proposals are not socialism at all. If you want to fix capitalism instead of getting rid of it, you're a social democrat who wants welfare capitalism, not a socialist.
And we already live in "fixed" capitalism! It was supposed to be fixed by the New Deal. How's that working out for you? You really want to subject some future generation to a new corruption and collapse in the wake of your reforms while the resources of our planet continue to be wasted on frivolous luxuries until there's nothing left?
>>676959625
>>676962926
>leftists actually believe this
>implying in socialism the state doesn't own all the guns and enslaves the workers
>>676966061
or you can create small communities in which everybody wants to be a part of it
there's a village in Spain where they are true socialists but anybody who doesn't agree can leave and people who want to come have to follow the rules
you can have islands of socialism in a liberal system
>>676966139
when and if anarchy hits, it will only cause people to reunite to a new civilization. to establish a new order.
>>676966695
This isn't communism though, they use the ideology as a thin veneer for authoritarianism.
>>676966594
The type of system you want will not work without slaves.
I have you figured out, you are a communist hiding behind socialism. And i will not see a system of governance that enslaves my fellow man be implemented.
>bu...but capitialism is slavery
It isnt. It allows people to work their way up, and it compensates people based on the work they do.
>>676962926
>>676966886
And then feel free to try and socialize them, i will not be a part of it
>>676967036
>it's not MY brand of communism!
>implying communism hasn't lead to mass murder every time it's been tried
>>676967036
Because the only way to have communism is if you force it
>>676966695
Ok, I'm redefining capitalism to mean "the free trade of underage children as sex workers". I don't care what your definition is; I'm going to insist on my own no matter what you say. You can point to all the books you want that say something different, but I'll just say "no true scotsman" and "oh, sex trafficking of children isn't your brand of capitalism, lol".
Now tell me what kind of monster could support capitalism? Did you know capitalism kills ten thousand million children per day? Only a retard would think capitalism is a good thing.
What? I'm just trying to have a fair discussion about capitalism.
>>676967429
Don't bother, communists are so psychotic they cannot be reasoned with. They're insane, they're violent, they're jealous of success... I pity them more than I hate them.
>>676967067
Do you support Bernie Sanders and think he's a "democratic socialist"? If so, then read your comment back to yourself and realize that social democrats instantly reveal themselves as pro-capitalist stooges the moment they're confronted by actual socialist ideas. "Democratic socialism" my ass.
>>676967067
capitalism is excluding those who don't conform to it from the world, whether it's in the North or in the South
gentrification, unemployment, globalization which drives wages down and push gvts to destroy theeir welfare state, factories that are moved abroad
then you've got people on the brink who either vote for Sanders or Trump or take their families and try to move illegally to the US or Europe
capitalism as it is now is shit, neoliberalism is destroying lives, it's violent
>>676967588
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933874.html
Notice a trend? Shitholes, every single one. Some more violent than others, sure! But they're all violent and totalitarian to some degree.
>>676957461
Liberal cuck
>>676957847
Trump is literally Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Charles Manson, the leader of the kkk, Dylann Roof, Andrew Zimmerman, Mr berns, Osama Ben Laden, that guy who cuts you off on your way to work, that guy who skips you in a line by pretending to know the person in front of you, Wolfgang von Strucker, Adam Sandler in every terrible movie, Hulk Holgan after he said the n word, Catlin Jenner after she outed gay rights, the evil ghosts from pacman that try to eat you, that noise you hear when you scratch a metal knife on your dinner plate, that feeling you have after you take a shit right after taking a shower, when you try to put your shirt on and you realize you put it on backwards, your parents when you were 5 and they didn't let you eat ice-cream before dinner even though you promised you'd eat dinner, that teacher who issues you homework over breaks and holds the class after the bell Rings at the end of a Friday, the person who beats you when you're bidding on eBay at the last second by a small bit of money more, the reason why when you pet a cat they tell you to fuck off but when you decide not to pet them they go crazy and rub up against your leg, the reason shit smells, and the reason why you sometimes stand up too fast and suddenly get dizzy.
>>676967067
Socialism is the ideal in which the means of production are owned by the people; private capital cannot exist in a socialist society. If you're not against capitalism, you're not any kind of socialist, period.
>>676967909
>destroys thise who dont confirm
Literally wut? Your post is a rambling piece of steaming word vomit
>>676968089
Socialism is the ideal in which stealing is the norm, where no one is allowed to rise above the rest, and where violent jealousy rules all.
>>676967067
Is this a pile of lies?
It doesn't make any sense to me ...
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409
>>676968089
Bro that graphic is total shit. Do better.
>>676968089
>implying you can get rid of "capital"
If it isnt money, it will be something else. And somebody will always have more, the only difference is in capitialism you are free to try and get more, in socialism you are told you dont need it, while others scramble to get more.
>>676968443
Do tell, what is "REAL" communism/socialism then?
>>676968470
Too many words for you? You prefer bumper stickers that read "Yay capitalism!", I suppose?
> How to kill commies
>>676968159
the people who don't have sufficient education, the people who aren't rich enough to have a better education, those who live in countries where the have absolutely no opportunity, the people who are excluded from the cities by gentrification and forced to relocate to areas where there's no economic activity
The subalterns, the working class or the unemployed
they're millions and at the same time nobody gives a shit about them apart from politicians like Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump
>pic applies for any "free shit" Berniecucks want
>>676967269
>Implying that we can't do it better.
The whole goal of USSR, Chinese, NK, Congo, Etc.. communism was to have the centralized government rule over everything, Marxist communism employs small communes, focusing on local government, not national.
>Mass shootings
Yeah, because those don't happen already. But I assume your point is there will be more-- and you may be right, but you're probably wrong. There are more guns owned by law abiding citizens in the United States than there are people, the concept of militia in a small commune is almost essential to ween out domestic terrorism.
>My brand
Look, you don't have to believe me about all the nations that use Authoritarianism to get their way instead of legit, Marxist Communism, but if you were to give me actual evidence that the beliefs of Carl Marx were the same beliefs as Stalin for example... I'd like to borrow your dimension traveling device, because I hate the one I'm in now.
It just simply isn't true.
>>676968583
Look, I think it's great that you're supporting Bernie Sanders and want to change the system to benefit everyone, honestly. But please learn something about socialism. Socialism's primary goal is the emancipation of the people, not their enslavement. Please don't just call yourself a "democratic socialist" because you want to raise the minimum wage. Reform without revolution will lead to another cycle going from New Deal to crony capitalism. Your present economic situation was the result of someone like you accepting reforms in the 1930's without trying to get rid of the ruling class that was stealing everything from the people.
Just start learning about real socialist ideas. Don't accept the capitalist version of what socialism means. Learn for yourself, and if you still don't like what socialists have to say, then at least you'll be able to give their ideas a fair critique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysZC0JOYYWw
>>676968652
see
>>676968089
You can learn so much by reading the thread!
>>676967429
Uhh... no, the only way Communism will work is if it's democratically enacted, that's the entire fucking POINT of Communism.
Unless it's Anarchic Communism, in which case, zero government, and hope that your fellow man has a soul and want's to contribute to society in a meaningful way.
>>676969702
What the hell are you talking about? Communism is inherently totalitarian! Name me one communist nation that wasn't totalitarian.
INSTA-BONER
>>676969881
It omits the mass purges, the gulags, the starvation, the secret police, etc.
Why do you socialists always lie about what socialism actually entails?
>>676970094
Then why has every communist regime come to power through violent revolution?
>>676969730
I am not a bernie supporter, no idea where that came from, i find the whole socialism idea appalling, democratic or not. I just feel you have been burned by capitialism, and therefore have a hatred for something that allows for unprecedented growth. Without this system, we wouldnt be talking. Just remember that.
>>676968652
Its the communism not being practiced by every communist country that you point out as utter failure to every communist sjw who lives in a capitalist country
>>676957461
feel whatever you want. the fix is in on the dem side Hi larry will win.
>>676970094
Yeah which is why they resort to violence to enact it. Because only a few want it
>>676970208
Afghanistan
>>676970208
You're dodging the point that I already made. The nations that fly under the guise of communism WEREN'T ACTUALLY employing communism. None of the things they actually achieved were socially prevalent with what Marxist Communism attempts to achieve.
>>676970700
>what is the taliban?
>>676957461
I don't get it. Every time I've seen a poll up on here I've seen Bernie seem to be the most picked candidate.
>>676970776
Just going to dodge my point again? Fair enough, you lefties are intellectual cowards after all.
>>676970459
>no idea where that came from
Because you just jump into conversations without reading previous posts.
>>676969556
>words on an aged paper background makes them look like more than just a random quote that holds no real legal meaning
>am I smart yet?
>>676970905
Should I have a different response for every time you stick your fingers in your ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA" like a child? I've provided you with definitions and explanations of socialism over and over again, but you completely refuse to engage with them.
>>676970920
Nah nigger we have been talking since the beginning, is it because i mentioned unions? Is that why?
>>676970806
A force of freedom fighters and/or terrorists spawned from the conflict between a flawed communist state and the capitalist west.
>>676970781
>those communists weren't REAL communists
>MY communism will be peaceful!
>unless people resist having their property stolen and freedoms taken away
>then gulags
Sure, I believe you, your communism would be so peaceful and everyone would be happy! :^)
>>676971115
Yes, you said it's stealing the means of production from the rightful owners. We agree on that! But why do you always omit the mass murder? It's not a bug, it's a feature of communism! Every communist regime used mass murder! Why can't you accept that?
>>676971176
FLAWED communist state?!? :O Say it ain't so! Are you saying that communism can go wrong!?
>>676960885
>US wages stagnant for 30 years
Have fun working your ass off for peanuts, faggot
>>676970454
and
>>676970625
As I said before, the ideology of the USSR, China, and the rest were not using Marxist Communism as a root, they only said they were. The core goal for Communism is to have no centralized government, the community creates the rules. Think of it like a pirate ship, everyone pulls their own weight, everyone gets their share of the plunder.
Also Nazism is a form of Fascism, now, I don't know about you, but what I've studied, Fascism is on the OPPOSITE of the political spectrum.
The argument also isn't that Red China, and the USSR employs Fascism either. Their main goal was to enact fear, which led to the crumble of the USSR. Nazi Germany at least had many people behind the cause, due to their history of Nationalism, and Patriotism for their nation. The difference between Fascism and Communism is essentially oil and water.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-35930999
But, bernie will make America white again.
>>676971858
And my point remains. You cannot enact communism without force. To have a whole nation willingly give up their possession and telling some they will now be working shit jobs, will require force. Theory schmeory my friend to implement the plan, you will need threats and the violence to endorce those threats
>>676971858
>The core goal for Communism is to have no centralized government, the community creates the rules.
Are you literally retarded? The community IS the government! You do know that governments are made up of people, right? Not calling it a government doesn't make it not be a government.
>Fascism is on the OPPOSITE of the political spectrum.
>The difference between Fascism and Communism is essentially oil and water.
It's almost identical to communism! Totalitarian, mass murder, nationalistic, violent, no freedoms... The only differences are the name and that some businesses are privately owned under fascism.
>>676970459
I believe in a capitalist system, but it needs to be checked occasionally. Why?
>unchecked socialism leads to a society with power/wealth concentrated in an elite minority
>unchecked capitalism leads to a society with power/wealth concentrated in an elite minority
Don't throw all in with one or the other. The middle path is best.
>>676972453
>implying these checks need to be done with a central government
>>676972453
Now now, that's not true. Anarcho capitalism would work great as there's no government to interfere in the market and cause businesses to act poorly.
>>676972378
>You cannot enact communism without force
Meanwhile, back at the dawn of the capitalist age...
>>676972378
Americans are going to get what we fucking deserve. Bunch of triggered faggot victims on the left and the right. I'll enjoy watching it all turn to shit regardless of who wins this reality show contest.
Not even mad
>>676972652
Are you honestly saying the French revolution was a capitalist revolution?
>>676972652
>convient picture to prove le point
>diverting from original issue
So if one does it, the other can as well?
>>676972453
>unchecked socialism leads to a society with power/wealth concentrated in an elite minority
You're probably thinking of state capitalism. State officials are not simply replacements for private capitalists in socialism.
>>676971246
You're still reliant on a centralized government enacting my preferred ideology, that is far from the real goals.
You wont, but I would recommend reading some of Emma Goldman's political works. She's an anarchist, but a prominent worker towards civil rights.
>>676972613
>>676972630
>Actually trusting business owners and corporations to do the right thing.
Fuck that. I work for a Fortune 50 company, and I want them regulated. You are the epitome of naive if you trust those bastards. I'd take government over them any day, shitty a choice as that is.
>>676967588
>what kind of monster could support capitalism
people with education
>>676972991
Again here>>676968583
>>676973208
>implying the goverment cares about you
>>676973126
>She's an anarchist
kek
I'm not a 12 year old edge lord, why would I read something written by someone so utterly silly? Who the heck is an anarchist nowadays anyways?
>yeah man, down with the system! let's get rid of government and corporations, then we'll all be happy and peaceful and smoke pot all day
>>676972890
My point is that you have to become a feudal peasant now because violent revolutions are an illegitimate means to change society. Capitalism should never have existed.
>>676972828
>being this historically illiterate
>>676973208
>implying government isn't 100x worse
>>676973412
>Implying big business does, outside of your shekels
>>676973595
You are literally incapable of learning anything, aren't you? How many thousands of times does socialism have to be explained to you before it penetrates your thick skull?
>>676973490
>the french were the first to have capitialism
>the used violence, it is illegitimate
The french were not the first
>>676973595
Of course I'm implying that. Government doesn't care, but they give more of a shit about you than corps do
>>676973780
According to you, socialism is just everyone owning everything together, and there's never violence and everyone's happy!
You honestly don't understand why I don't believe you?
>>676973753
You are right. My shekels hold power, you would be wise the use that power correctly. But too many people throw that power away, you realize they want more money, we have the money, we control them
>>676973962
They have a monopoly on force. They are the greater monster. I can always choose to not shop at a business or quit my job, but I cannot choose to not be subject to a government.
>>676957461
>>676974101
Holy shit I can't believe you buy into that bullshit. One day you'll grow up and learn how the world really works. It's not a fucking college textbook in real life.
>>676973898
There was a time when Europe's economic system was primarily feudal. Now it is capitalist. The transition between those two states was anything but peaceful, and the feudal ruling class was more than happy to use violence against revolutionaries who would take away their social control.
>>676974161
You are as big a dreamer as the berniefags
>>676972378
>Must use force
I wholeheartedly disagree. Only barbarians would assume violence, force, and fear are the bare means to enact concepts that centralize on singular liberty.
>Shit jobs
No, everyone plays the part they wish, they get back what they contribute to society.
>>676972443
>Me being retarded
I said centralized. I also already said that localized government is the plan. I like to think of each community enacting their own form of political ideology, and then we would treat (in this example the United States) as a mini United Nations, not everyone has to agree, but they do need to listen.
>Political Ideologies being identical.
No. You are wrong. And either I'm being hardcore trolled right now, or you need to take ANY political science class.
>Freedoms
The entire goal is for the individual to do what the individual wants. In a capitalist society, currency means power, you need a proper job (lets say CSE) to make big money, and you may move up the ranks and become a chief at the top of your paygrade. What my ideology represents, is equal opportunity, human rights, and work that you are happy with. I'll refer back to my pirate ship example...
>>676974359
Holy shit! i cant believe you bought into the bullshit about big daddy government needing to take care of you. Its like you have done nothing but read circle jerking internet forums that reinforce your beliefs!
>>676974029
A few centuries ago, here is what you would be saying: "How can you have a government without a king? You think that all the people can just rule themselves and everyone will be happy all of the time? Obviously you just want to install nobles to do the same thing that the kings are doing to us, only they'll be even worse! In conclusion, I refuse to even attempt to envision a world fundamentally different from the one I live in. Fuck your liberal democracy, John Locke."
>>676974513
You wholeheartedly disagree that a communist society could be enacted without violence? Mmmhmm maybe once we have robot slaves, but until then just wait until you have to tell somebody they are now shit pipe cleaners and they only get back what they put in.
>>676968048
Jej
>>676974696
I don't believe in unchecked government or unchecked business. Either one is a complete blunder. I want to try your way though. We already saw trickle down economics fail. Let's just go full force and have a little experiment like Brownbackistan, since that's going so well. I'm in. Let's see how it goes on a national scale. Of course you'd find new people to blame when it all goes to shit though.
>>676974352
*audible sigh*
This is what people actually believe... that a social rights activist in his 20s, directly opposing war for decades, and a CLEAR example of what democratic socialism actually is... is going to come to their house if they don't comply, and throw them in prison for having different ideological beliefs.
Fucking. Sweet.
>>676975230
Haha, because unionizing isnt a thing, because not purchasing products isnt a thing, because boycotting a company iant a thing, because people cant be called to action. Kek stay in your cocoon of anger and powerlessness bud
>>676974513
>Only barbarians would assume violence, force, and fear are the bare means to enact concepts
I'm glad we agree that socialists are barbarians then. They have no place in civilized society.
>No, everyone plays the part they wish, they get back what they contribute to society.
Then no one would choose to do shit jobs, no one would be janitors, yet we need them. Your assumption is quite absurd.
> I like to think of each community enacting their own form of political ideology
Then you'd have war bands preying on weaker communities. Bravo! That sounds so much better than what we have now.
>What my ideology represents, is equal opportunity,
No one is allowed to succeed over others. Wonderful.
>human rights,
Oh yes, communism is the paragon of human rights and freedoms. Look at North Korea!
>and work that you are happy with.
Have you ever talked with anyone who has lived under communist rule? Utter misery. They hated their lives, hated their jobs (they were forced into), and thought death was an improvement.
>>676975007
Oh yes? How is a civilization to function without government? Without government, force is the only currency, the strongest and best armed at the new rulers.
>>676975007
That's asinine.
For one thing, you're the faggot arguing against liberal democracy in favor of installing an autocratic, unaccountable, omnipotent state with unlimited redistributive power that has a mandate to act for the good of the collective. Where the individual doesn't matter. Where the individual is an *impediment.*
Socialism has been enacted all over the world, dozens of times, over a century. It always fails.
To believe otherwise requires a toxic combination of arrogance, ignorance, and plain stupidity.
>>676975607
I'll be right next to your cocoon of delusional smugness.
>>676975864
Holy sheeeit
>>676957461
Is he winning? Please tell me he is winning, I want to see him fuck up America's economy so bad.
>>676975960
Yep, sounds about right.
>i cant attack his premise
>ill attack him, he did it first
>who cares if he made valid points
>mfw
>>676975864
>>676975864
>you're the faggot arguing against liberal democracy in favor of installing an autocratic, unaccountable, omnipotent state with unlimited redistributive power
You see? You insist on using your own incorrect definition of socialism no matter what anyone says. Pretty ironic for someone who screams "STRAWMAN" constantly.
>Socialism has been enacted all over the world, dozens of times, over a century. It always fails.
As we have explained to you thousands of times, none of those supposed socialisms have eliminated private capital ownership, which is required for socialism by definition.
Of course, you've also refused to acknowledge the actual point of my post entirely - you are simply defending the world you live in because you don't actually want to understand anything and are clinging to a just world fairytale.
>>676975541
You're either a sophist or retarded.
Do you not know the punishment of not paying your taxes? They WILL cone to your home and kidnap you, put you in prison where you will be raped by niggers.
Bernie is the same as any other Statist only worse because the margin of freedom is lower under his fascism.
>>676975673
You will keep coming back to these nations that run their flag under communism, and they don't.
I'm done, your views are farce, and rely solely on your uneducated views on political ideology, lumping all dictatorial nations into a political ideology that they do not share anything in common with.
Read Marx, read Lenin, and take into consideration at least what other people say to you. Instead of resorting to one argument the entire time to defend yourself, bring up more, otherwise, the only thing you're reinforcing, is the people who share your particular ideology, and your own.
>>676975541
what do you think will happen if you don't pay taxes they're going to let you go?
>>676976759
You can define socialism however you want, it doesn't change the fact that EVERY time it's enacted it becomes a totalitarian nightmare.
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME
>As we have explained to you thousands of times, none of those supposed socialisms have eliminated private capital ownership, which is required for socialism by definition.
Are you fucking serious? Socialism failed because it wasn't pure enough? Isn't North Korea socialist enough? What would be good enough? A 1984 style world?
>>676975673
>North Korea
>The Democratic People's Republic of
Best Korea is not a communist anything they are a democratic dictatorship ruled by their single-party single-leader government. Mussolini was never a communist, same with Hitler and Stalin. They were Facist Authoritarians masquerading as Socialists, except for Mussolini who was just a Facist (seriously, his whole platform was just "Elect me I'll rule you all forever").
Violence, Force, and Fear are and have always been the means of society, positive reinforcement is one of the hardest concepts to rule by and is nearly impossible in practice. Humans are barely out of the trees, maybe in a thousand years we'll be ready for peace without overwhelming force to back it up but until then it won't happen.
I don't necessarily like Sanders, I think he's too much of an idealist to get anything done, but between him and Hillary I'll take Sanders. For me it's really going to come down to Trump or Sanders, whichever makes the ballot. Faggots don't know about my extra votes.
>>676977142
There were "nation states" in Spain that acted under social communes. Stalinism rooted them out, however, because they were doing it right.
>>676976922
>can't disassociate himself from the violence done by EVERY communist nation ever
>says he is the victim
Leftism everyone! When you prove them wrong, they cry victim and stop trying to prove their point. Why? Because discussion is hard, and being the poor victim is easy.
>>676976922
You know, the only good thing about these godforsaken threads is getting to read posts from informed socialists like you. Cheers, comrade.
>>676976922
Not even that anon, but enjoy your theories, they are nice, but impractical until we have the means to have robots do jobs we as humans need to be reimbursed to do, with more than you get what you put in. It is impractical to have this system without slave labor
>What my ideology represents, is equal opportunity
One of the fundamental problems of socialism is that it confuses equal opportunity with equal outcomes. With equal opportunity, not everyone ends up the same, and then you have a form of capitalism. Socialists don't like those outcomes, so they feel they need to level the playing field, and therein lies the crux...if someone is policing everybody to make sure everything is equal, who is policing them?
>>676977106
>>676976831
So pay your fucking taxes. Unless you make over half a million dollars per-year, you will be paying the same amount of taxes if Sanders is elected, vs. the past 8 years that Obama has run the nation.
Funny enough, the same goes for Trump's tax plan.
>>676977178
>Violence, Force, and Fear are and have always been the means of society, positive reinforcement is one of the hardest concepts to rule by and is nearly impossible in practice. Humans are barely out of the trees, maybe in a thousand years we'll be ready for peace without overwhelming force to back it up but until then it won't happen.
Aha!!! So you admit that your socialistic dream society would still be totalitarian? I knew it! You slipped up and were honest for once. You admitted that socialism is totalitarian and violent, and it's okay because it's human nature. Gotcha!!!
>>676977815
>SIGH
>dont people know people arent coming to get you
What if i dont pay my taxes
>lol well pay your taxes
What if i cant
>ayy pay your taxes
>>676977426
kek, sure there were. They didn't last because why? Other commies killed them?
>>676977697
Better dead than red
>>676978000
These posts are devolving to teen girl facebook level. "Very sad, very low energy" as your people would say.
>>676977629
And then you go and say something like this. Don't patronize someone because they are through with your one argument that you've put up.
My point was already made, I've said you should study on the particular ideology, using the examples I've given-- fuck, I'll even send you a link to something right now-- it may even give you more talking points against me, but the majority of it is dispelling the notion that Stalin was enacting a Communist state at the beginning of his dictatorship.
http://www.fau.edu/athenenoctua/pdfs/Lydia%20Ramirez.pdf
>>676976422
We each think the other is delusional, and operating under flawed logic, so what's the fucking point?
>>676978000
>trips of discovery
Got em!
>>676977815
There is no reason for someone richer to pay more taxes than anyone else. Most of the people I know that are rich deserve to be rich because they work harder than anyone else I know. IT'S RETARDED.
>>676978487
Because how do we grow as a species if we dont have responsible discourse?
>>676978403
And yet you've failed to provide evidence that socialism isn't inherently violent. I've stated over and over again that every socialist nation was violent and totalitarian, then you keep saying:
>but in theory it's totes nonviolent!
So what? I'm talking about the real world, not silly theory.
>>676978711
>b-but the rich are eeeeevil!
>it's the rich people's fault that I'm a failure!
Leftism
>>676978828
Well, socialists don't believe in responsible discourse. They believe in violent revolution.
>>676979083
I literally said the opposite good job
>>676979197
No no! I'm agreeing with you, I was just mock responding like a leftist would
>>676978905
I just posted an ARTICLE that explicitly COUNTERS your argument.
>>676978905
well, here's the problem...socialists believe in a rather utopian system, but the only way to achieve it is through force, because you have class warfare, and only when the 'proletariat' overcome the 'bourgeoisie' will that utopia be achieved...so it's the delusion that they can achieve a better, more peaceful society by wrestling down a segment of it.
>>676978000
Ok. See this is why /b/ needs id tags. I'm not the dude you were arguing with originally. I'm not into socialism, I already know it doesn't work. The horrible truth is that YOU are wrong as well, Humans are incapable of self-governance. All civilization will fall prey to the willingness of humans to take what is not theirs just because they don't believe anyone can stop them.
There is no perfect solution, we are doomed to live with the inadequacies of our species until such a time as another more advanced species either kills us, enslaves us, or manipulates us into changing.
>>676979528
Again, I'm talking real world examples, not some leftist's theory about how socialism should be. Do you have any real world examples? Nope. Why? Because every time socialism is tried, many people die.
>>676979534
Sums it up quite well.
>>676957461
I hope Bernie wins the presidency, then dies of old age in his sleep the night before taking office.
>>676968048
Pretty much, yes.
>>676979762
The real shame here is that you don't read the article that don't work on theory, but the exact nations that you're using to demonstrate the issues you bring up.
It all starts with references to philosophers, alive DURING the time Stalin was prominent. Don't be left in the dust, don't say theory means nothing when you don't know what it says, educate yourself, and THEN tell me I'm still wrong.
>>676979672
I miss IDs too, it made discussions easier.
>>676980169
Follow up:
The article uses real world examples, just sees them in a different light, the correct light-- with actual, REAL WORLD connections.
I just love how the majority of a communists or a socialists argument is, " you dont understand real *insert*, that isnt how it works" provide multiple sources of what has happened in real life, "no that was a bastardized version, not real" go on to explain how to introduce the system would turn it into a bastardized version, "im leaving because clearly you dont understand"
Geez o man
>>676980169
So you admit that every real world example proves my point? You admit that only in theory can socialism be nonviolent?
>>676980408
So the author argues the mass murder wasn't violent? Or that it was justified?
>>676980496
I must be insane for trying to reason with them. I've never had a leftist realize how insane they are.
Loser.com
Try it!
>>676979672
This is what disappoints me about America today...with this love affair of the idea of socialism, there is a simultaneous decline in understanding, appreciation, and adherence to the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are a list of limitations of what the government can do against the individual, because yes, humans (and especially governments) are prone to take what is not theirs.
The concept behind the Constitution is limiting that power, and in the case of the Bill of Rights, makes every citizen a minority of one. If more Americans understood that, and stood up for each other, then there would be far less problems, but that concept of citizenship seems to be completely forgotten today. Granted, there are plenty of cases where whole classes of people have been oppressed in America, so this hasn't been perfectly applied over history, but it would be far better for them to strive toward the ideal as originally established than throw it out and embrace an ideology than has proven to completely fail.
>>676981083
>and stood up for each other,
Just playing the Devil's advocate here: why should I stand up for anyone else? Why risk my own well being on behalf of someone who would never reciprocate? Even if they would reciprocate, why waste resources on something that wouldn't benefit myself?
>>676980530
I do not, because you're still only holding on to your one argument that is false. In the case of the journal, it only looks at the USSR, using Stalinsim (a dictatorship under the guise of Communism).
You keep using the USSR (among other "communist" nations) to prove your point, but my main argument to you, is that those nations simply AREN'T communist nations.
>>676980603
No, she argues that Stalin had a plan, and that's what he wanted to enact eventually. But he died, and people hardly knew what the next plan was-- so they followed through with what Stalin had in place-- kill everyone.
>>676980496
The funny part is that you don't look at the examples we use, and stick to the bastardized concepts that is your backbone to the argument.
____________
I still haven't heard a single other argument, OTHER than "oh look at these places, they were evil, why would we want to do what they did?
Well, to insert another notion, at the very core of what I use to think-- I still think that we can do better than those nations. I'll play along, and say "hey, all those nations were total communists, they just had the wrong implementation."
If the core concept of communism is just, and we as a nation, and as humanity can progress from it-- allowing equal opportunity, whole love for one another, implement a doctrine that not only is beneficial to ourselves, but for our fellow man... isn't that a good thing? Why can't we strive to erase the history that Communism has with those bastardized states, and instead, work towards a nation with real progress?
We're better than anyone else before, we have endured more than anyone else before, we can innovate, progress socially, learn from what others did so poorly before us.
That, is what I wan't for our state, for our people. Equality, rights, freedom.
>>676981362
I am only talking in a legal sense of protecting individual rights of life, liberty, and property, because of the idea expressed in Martin Niemöller's poem ("When they came for...")
If we start talking economics, that's a whole other issue, and your arguments have a lot of weight there.
>>676966695
I'm fine with that
>>676980496
If we were talking about any other subject, everyone on Earth would immediately realize what a complete imbecile you are. Let's say you have a completely incorrect idea of how to add two numbers: "2 + 2 = 22". When a math professor comes by to try to explain why your conception of arithmetic is clearly incorrect, you scream "oh, I see, it's not your special version of addition". The professor's response would be "you don't understand real mathematics, that isn't how it works", and then to give up on you when you dig in your heels and insist that 2+2=22 no matter what is said.
You've been nothing but an ignorant child throughout this thread; even if your viewpoint is completely correct, you've demonstrated a complete inability to come to terms with the ideas of others and critique them charitably. That the informed people are giving up on you isn't an indication of the strength of your arguments - it merely demonstrates the weakness of your intellect.
>>676981813
How can we be so sure that if we implement communism it wont become a bastardized version? That is all we have to go on, and if you dont learn from history...
TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS
>>676982591
TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS TAKE IT TO /POL/ FUCK TARDS
>>676982591
No faggot
>>676982341
Revolution from the Capitalist government. That's Marx's core into implementing Communism. I don't mean guns blazing, I mean complete democracy.
Every nation never started on the capitalist platform, they started with monarchy. In my opinion, Sanders is a stepping stone towards the future.
>>676982681
Shh. It's a random board for a reason, there are very few rules here.
>>676982711
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>676981813
>those nations simply AREN'T communist nations.
Ach aye! It's the no true scotsman fallacy.
They aren't REAL communists, despite having public ownership of the means of production, following what Marx wanted. No! They're... um... the evil twin of Communism! Yeah! That's it! You can tell by the mustache!
>No, she argues that Stalin had a plan, and that's what he wanted to enact eventually. But he died, and people hardly knew what the next plan was-- so they followed through with what Stalin had in place-- kill everyone.
... You just defended Stalin. You just said that it's not his fault there were mass murders. I've never met a tankie before! Now I can say I have.
>stick to the bastardized concepts that is your backbone to the argument.
Yeah, damned reality! How dare it not conform to how you want it to be!
>allowing equal opportunity, whole love for one another, implement a doctrine that not only is beneficial to ourselves, but for our fellow man
Hold up. Are you honestly saying Communism holds those as values? It's been a loooong time since I read Marx, but I don't recall anything about love. Sure, it claims to want "equal opportunity", but it always has those "more equal" than others. And what of the rich? Are they not our fellow man? Why must they be murdered cruelly? Even if they were in error, they surely are deserving of respect all humans are due.
>That, is what I wan't for our state, for our people. Equality, rights, freedom.
Me too! Capitalism provides that in spades! Socialism only ever provides horrible misery. No matter how much you want it to be otherwise, every time it turns out the same. Why should we try again? The risk of destroying our nation is so great!
>>676982340
Your example is flawed, in the way this thread has been going it would go like this
I am the student who thinks 2+2=4, i have historical examples that prove this is the case, the teacher comes up and says billy i know history has proven 2+2=4 but in theory it is supposed to equal 5. I go on to explain that multiple people and countries have tried to make 2+2=5, but it always works out to 4, therefore with history and multiple trials i can confidently say it equals four.
https://soundcloud.com/mucollabarchive/sets/donalds-theory-this-dick-is-free-a-trump-tribute-album
>>676957461
ACTUAL RECENT QUOTE FROM DONALD TRUMP FOUND ON CNN:
"i like to dress up as Goliath
not everybody thinks that its cool, but i finally met a girl who thinks im a 10/10 would bang like bam in my Goliath suit.
she'd come over sometimes while her boyfriend was away after school.
once the door would close she'd almost instantly get naked. most times she'd put on her favorite song and start sucking. then she would cry. her tears and makeup would drip down her face onto my dick. its surprising how cold tears are. eventually i finally asked her what was wrong. in between licks she told me that her favorite song was also her bfs favorite song. so even though she loved hearing it and it totally got her pussy wet, it also made her think about the fact that she was cheating on her boyfriend. i dont think i ever came harder down somebodies throat then right after she told me that. she was beautiful. we dont hang out anymore. wanna get lunch?
this was the song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSPe8dIJEtw
>>676982081
Well, economics are bound to moral laws. I wouldn't waste anything on a useless human being, it'd be immoral to do so, even providing them legal protection.
>>676964058
You sound 15
>>676982340
>you've demonstrated a complete inability to come to terms with the ideas of others and critique them charitably.
>implying a communist like you deserves any respect
You want to kill all them evil rich folks. Go fuck yourself!
>>676983047
Stop shilling your video faggot
>>676982793
>Revolution from the Capitalist government.
Here we go again... "My revolution will be with roses and hugs, not guns! Trust me guys, unlike the hundred times before this when socialism was a murderous totalitarian nightmare, this time will be good!"
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Think you can fool people for the hundredth time?
>>676957582
>implying this great nation was ever less than great
>implying "america" is only referring to the united states
>implying op is a faggot
>>676983029
THIS
>>676981083
First, where the fuck did I even allude to any love of socialism in my post? Socialism doesn't work, it's even less functional than Capitolism which is unfortunately the best we have right now.
As to the rest of what you said:
People haven't forgotten those tenants. They never understood them to begin with. The Constitution and Bill of Rights were stupendously brilliant pieces of law in a time when everything was ruled by various Kings, Aristocrats, and similar despotic modi.
You've missed the point however. The masses DO NOT and HAVE NEVER cared about how their government is run so long as they do not feel the sting of it's whip. As long as the government allows them to merely continue as they were or at least close enough to it that they can say "It'll be ok, it'll get better soon" then it can do largely as it pleases. Want to know what the average person wants from their government? Protection from outside invaders, an available food supply, and some basic emergency services. They don't know or care for the most part what happens behind the scenes. The average person is completely incapable of making cogent, rational decisions and that's exactly who gets put in charge 9 times out of 10. That's why governments don't work forever, because once the original visionaries and their chosen, groomed successors are dead then it's fair game for any old schmuck to get elected, selected, or otherwise rise to power.
A well-meaning clod is worse for the people than an ill-meaning genius. Look at history and tell me I'm wrong. Find me some evidence, I could use the pick-me-up.
>>676983029
Yes, that is precisely how you would dig in your heels and insist 2+2=22 no matter what more informed people try to tell you. You've been told that the historical circumstances of the real world are more complex than simply "try socialism -> Stalin => Communism always bad!!11!!1". You've been told why these authoritarian nations are not socialist and had people explain to you where they might have gone wrong in trying to implement socialism. That's the thing about real knowledge and careful analysis - it's always more complex than the simplistic worldviews that offer certainty to people who want easy answers.
>>676982941
They aren't communist because they never even tried to be, there isn't a single communist nation on earth. There are however SOCIALIST nations which is what happens the instant you try to take communism off the paper and into real life. So I can see the confusion but seriously, learn the difference.
>>676965183
You stupid fuck. You live in the Us right? Syndicalism is the biggest fucking bullcrap that has destroyed any social fiber in a modern enterprise. Your modern day socialism is the exact opposite of its original ideals. Believe me, we have to deal with this socialist crap and it's fucking awful. Just a bunch of nitwits who try to screw over hard working men with government money, period.
>>676957461
i felt the bern then got yelled at by my mom to get a job and stop being lazy. screw her though bernie will give me free shit so i never have to work
>>676982941
Seriously? Twisting words?
I don't even know what to think about you really, and falling into the same trap of "Look! He lost because he's out of talking points!" I'll go again, because you work on the lowest form of argument.
If you can't refute with published fact, reviewed by peers, within both the private and public sector, I refuse to believe you.
I didn't defend Stalin whatsoever, I merely expressed the argument within the journal-- she is just stating facts.
>>676983546
And once again, the same fucking argument every time. I refuted it, and you neglect it. God that's so irritating.
Y'know, I live in Seattle, one of the most progressive cities in the United States. I'd argue we have it pretty damn good here, and our mayor is a socialist, wanting to enact legislation to further the progress we already have. Things such as subsidies to housing, larger education spending, and a lot more. These are all good things, and we have yet to kick him out.
>>676965183
And also, emancipation of people through the means of removing their personal capital. Holy fucking shit man. How retarded are you?
>>676984158
>They aren't communist because they never even tried to be
How the heck weren't they communist? They had public ownership of the means of production. They had violent purges. They had secret police. They had government control every aspect of life. What isn't communistic about that? It's completely anti-individualistic, it's pure collectivism.
>>676983397
Can't believe people believe this kike
>>676957461
Damn straight OP. Bernie Sanders voter and delegate here.
>>676982941
>no true Scotsman
No, you're both faggots. The first time a society attempts any kind of structural reform, it's a fucking mess, people resist, many usually are killed, shit doesn't go according to plan, you pick one of ten thousand directions, and try it, roll with he punches, and when that shit doesn't go according to plan, repeat, over and over and over.
Only schoolchildren and idealists think you create an entirely new form of government, everyone buys in to it instantly, and it's a fucking success right out of the gate, the 1st attempt and needs no revisions and no band-aids and no periodic revolutions and no 2nd or 3rd attempts.
If the world had given up on democracies, republics, and capitalism the first fuckin time it tanked out and ruined everyone's lives, we'd still be a monarchy too. The US wasn't started without its share of imposition, chaos, death, and continual course corrections minor and massively major ever since.
With Russia's situation, workforce, and economy post war, compared to USA's, it's a fucking miracle they lasted as long as they did with any kind of government.
Other countries will continue to innovate their own take on governmental and economic models familiar and unfamiliar. Including the US. Fuckin deal, we don't still live in the 1700s, faggot.
>>676983931
Don't even have to go back and look at history.
Look at Brazil and Venezuela. Heavily socialist views and their economy is going into the shitter. Venezuela had to shut down its government for a period of time, and people are protesting that they don't want socialism.
I don't care what theory's people have, socialism does not work.
It has been tried multiply times and never works out for the better.
>>676983896
Let me clarify; the love affair with socialism is a phenomenon in America, I wasn't responding in that to anything you stated or alluded to in your post.
Why I replied to your post was you mentioned the fallible nature of humans, and I was pointing out how the American founding took this much more into consideration than is appreciated today.
I think we're actually more or less on the same page about humans and their interactions with governments.
>>676967269
implying it wasnt just a dictator ship guized as marxism?
>>676984286
>If you can't refute with published fact, reviewed by peers, within both the private and public sector, I refuse to believe you.
No problem, I have a higher standard of evidence: real life. So here we go AGAIN: Communism is always violent, communism is always totalitarian, look at history, etc. etc. etc. Round and round we go! I do enjoy a merry-go-round!
>I didn't defend Stalin whatsoever, I merely expressed the argument within the journal-- she is just stating facts.
Oh, sorry. Your chosen author defended Stalin. That's so much better! Even your fellow socialists think such people are scum, no love for Tankies and all that. How can you cite someone who admires freaking STALIN???
>And once again, the same fucking argument every time. I refuted it, and you neglect it. God that's so irritating.
Says the commie who denies what has happened in history. Listen, it's not my fault history has shown communism to be violent every single god damned time it's tried.
>and our mayor is a socialist
Oh yeah? He/she wants to make the means of production public? I somehow doubt that. You sure he/she isn't just a social democrat?
I'll leave you with one more question: Why should anyone try for communism again? Every time it's the same thing, dozens of times over. Why should we trust you or any other commie to not start some blood thirsty orgy of violence and destruction? "It's a good theory if we do it right" doesn't convince me nor anyone else with half a brain cell.
>>676984848
>Only schoolchildren and idealists think you create an entirely new form of government, everyone buys in to it instantly, and it's a fucking success right out of the gate, the 1st attempt and needs no revisions and no band-aids and no periodic revolutions and no 2nd or 3rd attempts.
Precisely my point! Socialism will never work because it'll always be a bloodbath! Thank you, sane anon. It's about time someone got it. Try telling this to the commies in this thread.
>>676985119
So don't implement that specific model of socialism if you have the resources and culture and political climate of Brazil, you fucking twat.
>implying macroeconomics is reducible to a facing single sentence.
Turn off the political news, and read up on economics, if you want to know anything about economics. I don't go to fucking church or philosophy class and then think I'm qualified to talk about astrophysics.
>>676985234
>implying communism is anything other than a violent dictatorship
>>676985232
I can accept that. The founding fathers were so far ahead of their time we probably won't be ready for their vision of democracy for at least 50 years, probably more.
>>676985964
Are you saying the economics shows socialism to be viable?
>mfw
>>676967036
comunism/socialism = authoritarianism
>>676985964
K, name one time socialism has been successful.
Just one time true socialism has ever really worked in the world.
>>676985835
And installing this republic, or any republic, didn't begin with a bloodbath, run on more bloodbaths, and end with even bloodier bloodbaths.
Nigger, ever hear of history? You'd be amazed what's in there.
>>676985835
What are you even saying? You obviously didn't read what he wrote because you took his point that "It doesn't work the first time so you gotta try again and again until it does." to mean "It doesn't work the first time so it's better to not even try."
>>676986182
REAL socialism/communism is all about love and peace and equal opportunity...
/s
>>676985530
To answer your final question,
I'd rather attempt, and live in a communist society, something in which the theory written by Carl Marx is grandiose, difficult to implement, but by and large better for everyone, then to have the overhead of a corrupt elect thats the necessary evil in our society.
>>676986381
So basically you have to get rid of greed throughout humanity for it to really work. GOOD LUCK!
>>676986200
>Just one time true socialism has ever really worked in the world.
Take a gander at Scandinavia.
They believe in public wealth over private wealth. Free health care and child care.
And their governments tend to be socialist.
>>676986469
So let's say that the odds of success are 1/100 then, given the number of times it's failed. Are you willing to destroy the lives of millions on that slim chance? Are you going to make that decision for them? You see why I think you're insane?
>One of the most active discussions on /tv/ for ages
>mfw it belongs on /pol/
>>676986723
>implying they're not social democrats
Are the means of production publicly owned there? NO!!! They're capitalistic with strong safety nets.
Faggot.
>>676986018
Interestingly enough, one could even argue the electoral college, which many see as outdated today, was an example of the founders' attempt to put someone more informed than the average person in control. Its effectiveness has always been debatable, but it does seem that was part of the intent.
>>676969556
gov't paid infrastructure - electricity, sewage, roads etc. schools, military defence, police protection. none of these things are 'rights' apart from maybe education. (but you americans have to pay huge sums of money for university haha)
the gov't is stealing my money and giving to the road workers so i have a way to get to work :( as well as the waste treatment plant is sending me broke, i want to shit in a bucket and throw it out the window like the good old days!
>>676986829
You're on /b/ nigger
just went to his rally today
>>676986145
Economics show everything to be viable. It is the study of what conditions are necessary to make even the most absurd things viable. Doesn't mean anyone's going to try them, doesn't mean anyone's not going to try them. Economics is rarely predictive with any reliability whatsoever, and nearly always useful retroactively.
Do they seriously not even teach you kids a basic 101 class on this shit? It's how our world works, wtf.
>>676986723
Yah because I want to wait 6+ months just to see a doctor. I mean thats great for people that never strive to get somewhere in their life and need help.
For someone that worked their ass off to get where they are though. I don't feel compelled to lower the status of the health care industry for lazy fucks.
And no im not talking about disabled people. Just people that are able to work and don't.
>>676987130
The fuck are you talking about? Are you saying that any real economist supports communism? What have you been smoking?
>>676987012
Oh shit, that's embarrassing.
>>676986723
Yah that's not true socialism you dumbshit.
I said show me one example of TRUE socialism that has worked.
Protip: you won't be able to.
>>676986381
In order to socialism/comunism work everyone must be equal, so everyone must be a cyberman
>>676987404
So /tv/ supports the grand cuck Bernie? How embarrassing. Glad I don't frequent that faggy board.
>>676986942
Oh look, Social Democracy, the exact model you're trying to claim is unworkable is working well in Scandinavia.
>>676987674
Social democracy isn't socialistic, retard. It's about private ownership of capital.
>>676985530
Says the USFag, whose country has been the most violent on earth and whose economy depends on a constant state of war hitch it's had since lucking out & lnding in the giant pool of europes old money in WWII.
Please, tell us all what a peaceful society you are, capitalist republic, which depends on a culture of increasing aggression and competing to capitalize on each other's weaknesses.
>>676987674
Social democracy is still capitalism....
>>676986781
Circumstantial evidence is not absolute. The process in which the decline of the USSR began was with the murdering of innocents. During the time, Russia was ruled by one Czar, a monarchy-- you can't make one leap to communism, especially during a time that capitalism was on the rise (an ideology in which the majority of western civilization was only beginning), and say it will work.
Progress happens over time, the people do not live under a police state (yet), and the chances of that happening are extremely slim. The only thing that is allowing such a state to rise, is moronic, Black Lives Matters extremeists, and neo-feminist extremists. If we stave away the fear that our nation can put into us, and not allow mass genocide of our own people (which the changes of THAT are even slimmer (the last public execution in the USA was in 1934)).
We need not fear our country, the country may need to fear us. Not from bullets, but electorate, democratic change.
But to answer your question again, given that there is no basis, I would not risk the lives of others for a 1/100 chance of getting what I want. But as I said before, that will not happen, if they start killing us... well, how will the rest of the world react?
>>676987575
I said it was a good discussion, I didn't claim any kind of allegiance to either "side".
Are you always this retarded?
>>676987874
>Says the USFag, whose country has been the most violent on earth
u wot mate? China killed tens of millions of their own people. Same with the USSR and every other communist nation. The US is crazy peaceful in comparison!
>>676988038
You were whining about it being like /pol/, strongly implying you're a bernie cuck
