>americans "god given right" to own a gun > amendment
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
>americans "god given right" to own a gun
> amendment only applies to militia not the average person
>mfw americans have been bitching about a misinterpretation this whole time
reminds me of the islamic culture
It's meant that anyone can own a gun, so that in case a militia is needed by the state, it can be easily created.
When it was written, they'd had to steal guns from the king's armories and get the rest from the French, only the soldiers were able to actually possess weapons.
The idea is to keep the government from becoming too complacent with its' people, by giving the people the ability to rise up at any point they choose if they feel they are mistreated.
It also isn't "god given", it's just a basic right to able to own the tools to defend yourself with.
>>676927814
thats one interpretation. another is for communities to have militias of trained gun users, giving only them the right to use a gun when the militia is needed
>>676927360
>>676927814
>>676928317
It's a "well-regulated" militia. The right cannot be banned, but it can be regulated highly.
>>676927360
>>676928317
That wouldn't work however, since the idea is for everyone to own a weapon.
The idea being here that if only a select group of people have a weapon, that group is capable of cowing the rest by threat of force. If everyone has a weapon, everyone is on equal(ish) grounds.
>>676929013
>>676928822
Once again, it's meant to be used in the creation of said well regulated militia.
In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Supreme Court undertook its first-ever "in-depth examination" of the second amendment's meaning Id. at 635. After a lengthy historical discussion, the Court ultimately concluded that the second amendment "guarantee[s] the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation" (id. at 592); that "central to" this right is "the inherent right of self-defense"(id. at 628); that "the home" is "where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute" (id. at 628); and that, "above all other interests," the second amendment elevates "the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home" (id. at 635). Based on this understanding, the Court held that a District of Columbia law banning handgun possession in the home violated the second amendment. Id. at 635.
>>676929133
>>676929130
And? That doesn't mean guns should be banned kid.
>>676927360
Mfw u don't know history and we fought a revolution to keep and maintain our access to firearms against oppressive governments.
>>676929193
>>676928144
why is a gun the needed self defense tool? plenty of countries dont allow citizens to carry guns and they have fine standards of living. theres still crime in those countries but thats true for any country. my argument is most lives would not change whether they had a gun or not, and the fact that most people have them in the US causes more harm than help because of heated emotions and misuse of the gun. a more effective practice would be programs teaching people how to de escalate situations and control themselves in the first place
>>676929267
>>676929414
>>676929478
>>676929267
Jesus Christ how horrifying
>>676929532
>>676929224
You're right, it doesn't. If anything, it means they should be even easier to obtain, and that mandatory weaponry handling classes should exist so that everyone knows what's going on.
On a side note, if you're going to be a dick, atleast make sure that the people you're being a dick to aren't arguing the same point you are, it makes you an idiot.
>>676927360
Did someone else hear a liberal cuck? I can't tell if it was a queef or just some faggot talking out of their ass.
>>676927360
your level of research is The Young Turks
>>676929627
>>676929852
>>676929380
Because it isn't meant for the people to defend themselves from each other, that's just an added bonus. We have the right to bear arms in order to protect ourselves from the American government. That is the intention.
Whether it works or not remains to be seen. However, if people actually understood the rules and how they work, I'm very sure that it would.
The 2nd Amendment is one of the most misunderstood passages in the Constitution. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
It's an axiomatic statement followed by a conclusion. There were numerous justifications for the right to bear arms, but the founders felt that a well-regulated militia was among the most important. By the way, "well regulated" means well trained and disciplined, not regulated by many rules and laws.
>>676929931
>>676930051
>>676927814
So I understand that this is the reason for the amendment. But what I don't understand is that gun nuts actually talk like this is the reason they own a gun. To protect themselves if the government becomes tyrannical. Thing is if the government actually became tyrannical and had the backing of the military, which would have to be the case for it to matter at all anyways, then I'm pretty fucking sure that you wouldn't really stand much of a chance anyways.
>>676930100
>>676930174
>>676927360
>amendment only applies to militias not the average person
>militias composed of average people who own guns
>mfw europeans have been bitching about a misunderstanding the whole time
>>676927360
nice bait
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
because of the need for the people to be armed so that they can form a militia is necessary to the security of a state free of tyrannical control it is the right of the people of the the united states to own guns and for that right not to be regulated against.
>>676927360
>ONLY THE MILITIA DURR!!!
Title 10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
Organized is kept well regulated by the state which provides training, equipment, and munitions.
Unorganized is kept well regulated on an individual level. The individual militiaman provides his own training, equipment, and munitions out of his own pocket.
>A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
This is not as written, it's as ratified. In case you didn't know as ratified>as written.
Notice that second half.
>the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Not one separation. It very clearly stated the right is of the people. Why? You don't have militia without the people being armed.
>>676930268
OP is massive cuck faggot
>>676929633
not amerifat but i agree, guns are banned for most citizens in my country while criminals can get them easily. I think its alright for citizens to have the right to own guns, but if you want one it should be mandatory for you to take classes on its respobsable use and have a pshycological exam before being allowed to own one
>>676929695
>not using Russian style trigger discipline for fastest killing of Chechen and other shit skin
>>676930452
>>676927360
>amendment only applies to militia not the average person
the militias are made up of average people you fucking kike
>>676930705
the gun doesn't have a safety so it is equally fast comrade
>>676930110
That isn't the point. Human beings will use whatever they can to justify their actions if possible, even if it stoops to the illogical.
The base idea is that the government has no right to strip the citizens it governs of their ability to defend themselves from it.
Stripped down, it's clearly meant to threaten the people in power away from tyrannizing everyone else. If they break the rule, the American people have every right to be angry and to remove the offenders from power by force, since force is what the offender/s would be attempting to limit for his/her/their own use.
>>676930043
You realize liberals use the same logic to say the 2A is only talking about muskets, right?
>>676930727
>>676929380
Shut the fuck up you dumb cock sucker. I bet you do not live here or you would understand. Talking with foreigners about gun laws is like trying to explain freedom to someone who has been a slave since birth, and has never learned any other way of life. You are just ignorant.
>>676929256
mfw the fight was to end oppression of the people not to get guns>>676929256
>>676927360
Great success OP, within minutes angry 'Muricans gather to this thread to show you that you are wrong.
>there are people in this thread right now that actually think they could stand up to their government if it came to that
Lol okay then
>>676930961
>>676930110
>we don't have a chance
Are you entirely unfamiliar with OEF/OIF or are you literally retarded?
>>676930985
>shut the fuck up dumb cocksucker
>you are just ignorant
Typical hick.
>>676927360
god given rights come from your humanity. it doesn't matter if you believe in God or not.
>>676931102
>>676931303
>>676930110
Considering there's more gun owners in the US than soldiers in the top 10 biggest militaries combined it's not as much a done deal as you may think even with 100% military support of the government (lol). The armed populace is scary as shit when you realize Elmer can put a bullet through your face just as effectively has he can a deer's heart (which he's been doing for years).
Individually, you may be fucked, but you're guaranteed to not be alone in a real shtf situation like that and the faceless hordes win.
>>676931360
>>676931392
>>676931080
>Counter-insurgency warfare
>actually effective
pick one.
>>676931440
>>676930985
No it's easy. You need a gun because any mofo could be packing.
>>676930985
Quiet, dumbass. People like you are the reason foreigners hate us on the internet.
He is trying to understand how our rules work in order to make sense, and you insulting him for it makes you the biggest jackass in the room.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you did, while the rest of us carry on a civil discussion.
>>676931500
>>676930910
нет, комрад.
you must be of usings finger of firing inside trigger protector and shoved against front side of hole
>>676931554
>>676931030
Some important battles at the beginning were literally kicked off by troops marching in with the intent of taking away every gun they could though.
>>676931611
>>676931665
>>676931367
The issue is that deer don't shoot back or drive tanks
>>676931742
>>676931800
>>676927360
>lrn2 english
the bit about militias is an explanatory preface to the right of the PEOPLE to own WEAPONS
not just guns, but also
>explosives
>cannons/artillery pieces
>warships
>fighters
>bombers
>bombs
>nukes
>>676931854
>>676931912
>>676931791
>implying it's for hunting
It's a doomsday provision that merely enables hunting. Hunting isn't the purpose unless you count hunting tyrants.
I bet you think an AR-15 will blow a deer in half and that you absolutely have to use all 30 rounds.
>>676932039
>>676931367
Idk. The government has huge advantages over the populace honestly. In the form of attack helicopters, jets, tanks, drones, and your average soldier is obviously better trained with a weapon than your average citizen
>>676932150
>>676932230
Gonna go work out now. Enjoy your meaningless arguements /b/.
>>676932198
>and your average soldier is obviously better trained with a weapon than your average citizen
not at all. My buddies are active duty in the air force and marines and I have more range time and practice than them. I am not even a gun nut just occasionally train and hit up the range.
>>676932198
At the cost of bringing this age-old defense again, there actually IS merit in the idea that the military won't want to attack its' own people.
While there would surely be those assholes who will do absolutely anything they are told to, including shooting their own families, there are just as many others who will think that that is bullshit, and join the rebellion.
Killing your own countrymen is different from killing the other guys over the pond.
>>676931080
There are people in Syria who KNOW they cannot.
>>676932198
Sure, but you can see just how much of a pain in the ass fighting a non-uniformed guerilla force is based on Afghanistan. Now up the numbers significantly, give them better rifles, and realize they're on your own home turf which is just as much their home turf if not more so.
Anyone can be a "bad guy". Your neighbor, your coworker, your best friend, even a family member. Bombing them just makes it worse.
There are plenty of recreational shooters out there that can outshoot soldiers and have much more time behind the trigger.
>>676932577
Maybe I worded that incorrectly. Not with a weapon per se. But better trained for combat situations
>>676931791
True enough, but the fact of the matter is that troops are allowed to disobey orders that would go against the constitution.
No US Military soldier is under any obligation to follow the command of anyone telling them to confiscate the firearms of a US citizen.
If you think that all, or even most, of the US military would just blindly obey when ordered to do such a thing, you're delusional. Even if they did, the total number of US troops is between 2-3 million (active and reserves). With over 300 million people AND guns in the US, if only 25% of the population were to fight against the military, the military would be outnumber so vastly, that the only option would be to essentially carpet bomb everything.
>>676932577
So your buddies makes up the average of every citizen. Because I'm fairly certain the average citizen is slightly over weight with high blood pressure. But hey at least they know how to hit stationary bud light bottles in their back yard!
>>676932089
I bet I own more guns than you do, faggot. You're being a fucking retard if you think some fudd with a .30-30 is going to be terribly effective at modern combat. He'll kill a few grunts, sure, but that's it
>>676927360
Its not like its hard to become part of a militia. Civil war re-enactors are almost all militiamen.
It would just be a needless hurdles.
>>676932994
infantrymen are the only soldiers that get any significant training in battle tactics
they make up ~10% of the army and marine corps
>>676927360
The militia is the private citizens you Eurocuck
>>676932989
You're right. The problem is that it's not a war the fighters in Afghanistan can win really in the traditional sense. They can basically just hold out and hope we get tired of it.
>>676933377
good get
>>676932994
Just got out of the military. Only about ~25% of the Army/Marines and very little of the other services has a lot of combat training, non combat personnel don't really do a lot. Even the Marines just have to qualify on their rifle annually.
>>676933377
I can't speak for the other branches, but all army personnel are trained in battle tactics. And many soldiers take additional courses in it regardless of their mos. You shouldn't fabricate lies to validate your hopes.
>>676933377
and how many percentages of the people would actually fight the government if it came to that? If they brought out the full force of the army, cavalry and infantry.
>>676933289
What you fail to realize is there's not one old fudd, there's MILLIONS, and not just fudds, but plenty of other types of gun owner as well. I know you can't seem to understand this but what happens when every time you even try to push into a forest or city a couple hundred modern equivalents to the White Death greet you with friends?
Airshit isn't real guns anon-kyun.
>>676933524
What's your point? They should stop?
>>676932577
Not him but this is pretty anecdotal. I had a buddy who was only in for a very short time, but then got out because of an injury. Well we were at this concealed carry class out at the gun range, everyone there said they had plenty of experience shooting a gun. And yeah my friend by far was the best shot.
>>676933655
Where'd you go to basic? You realize it varies by location. You're experience at one base doesn't grant you some great insight into the entire armed forces.
>>676933238
I'm well aware, I just got done being an FMF corpsman last month. I'd estimate that of the roughly 15-20% of the overall military that aren't massive pogs, maybe 10% would stay loyal to the federal government.
>>676927360
The people ARE the militia you dumb fuck. That's what a militia is. A group of people with arms defending and fighting for x.
CIVILIANS WITH ARMS.
>>676927360
>> amendment only applies to militia not the average person
Cool, now do your research on what "militia" meant to the guys who wrote that. They left ample supporting documentation.
>>676934006
If you think basic training is anything close to actual combat training I guarantee you are a boot or some fucking pog who's never done shit
>>676933757
Rather than battle tactics, close quarters combat or sniper school makes a better point. Not many soldiers/marines see extended training here.
>>676933757
You really think the "battle tactics" you learned in boot are going to do shit?
>>676933779
Might take the populice a little bit to rev up, but if the military were to just start shooting people indiscriminately and slaughtering thousands, the outrage would grow until the armed forces were outnumbered by the single largest riot in history.
>>676933876
No. The point is that in a scenario where the U.S government is fighting the citizens it would be very similar in the the citizens would be fighting a battle they most likely cannot win. For example it the government decides to drone strike your ass what do you do to counter that?
>>676933816
If you really think everyone is going to abandon their families to fight against the federal government you are a special kind of stupid
>>676934278
>>676934361
The thing is its still more than what the average citizen has
>>676932390
It took me way longer then it should have to figure out this was pokemon.
>>676934361
>I go to the shooting range every weekend so I know battle tactics
>>676934278
I love how you ignored the question, anon. Classic /b/.
>>676934608
But you still got it.
>>676934607
The average citizen knows where to hide, though, and quite a few will know how to make traps and whatnot.
>>676934466
Right. So we should learn from the Afghanis and just not fight. Lay down arms right now. Tell them "we trust you not to try"?
>>676929947
>Guns are going to help protect us from the govt.
>>676933779
Common estimate was 3% of gun owners, hence the III%er movement. Estimates from 2014 on actual count of gun owners varied wildly depending on source. 70,000,000-120,000,000. Anti-gun sources usually claimed lower numbers. There is no concrete number as registration is not a thing in most states.
Assuming only 3% of those numbers fight it's 2,100,000-3,600,000 fighting. The US military size according to wikipedia (idgaf) is 2,112,300. That is not a cakewalk.
US population is ~232,000,000 and some change according to the census bureau's popclock.
>>676934523
I'm sorry you have to find out this way anon, but you're fuckin retarded.
>>676928144
>endowed by our Creator
Nigga is you dum
>>676934523
If you think no one is, his special kind of stupid can teach your special kind of stupid.
>>676934466
You underestimate the power of a faceless armed mob.
You also fail to understand that that would be absolute political suicide in that circumstance, clearly demonstrating to everyone on the planet that you need to be stopped.
It's one thing to drone strike someone else's people, but when you start blowing up your own because they don't like what you're doing? Good luck with all the support you just garnered for the rebellion trying to depose you.
>>676934901
Now you just have to figure out which civilians are the ones trying to kill you. Good luck!
>>676933238
This is true too. There is no way the government would have military backing if they were to do something tyrannical. And for their tyrannical actions to have really any sort of impact they would have to have military backing to enforce said actions. That being said though this fact also flies in the face of the whole "I need muh guns to protect me from the big scary American government"
>>676933757
really
so as a pog you regularly did moving target marksman ship?
you regularly performed MOUT exercises?
you regularly practiced ambushes, and react to fire, and assaulting an entrenched position?
how about your war buddies?
a 3 week class doesn't provide profficiency
it just gives you the base knowledge needed to do effective training
and if you aren't doing effective training on a regular basis then you aren't trained
>>676933779
it varies by state
but depending on why most everyone in the mountain west, mid west, south west, and south would oppose the government by force in some way
>>676934726
I'm the same anon, m8. I went to boot in Great Lakes, IL. Then corps school at fort Sam Houston where I plowed a lot of your little medic sluts, although the medical admin gals were the easiest because of how stupid they are. After that I went to FMTB at Camp Pendleton, then I was assigned to an unnamed battalion in the 7th Marine Regiment out in the stumps
>>676928822
>>676927814
The idea should be that people are an integral part of the government, not that the government is some distant thing you fear might get out of control, if the government started acting in a way you didn't like what would you do against drones and fifth gen fighter jets?
>>676927360
>mfw you dont know that the militia consists of any adult citizen
>mfw democrat cucktards are part of the militia
kek
>>676932198
You're not wrong. But imagine guerrilla warfare but with millions of people instead of 100 sand niggers. We didn't do so well in Afghanistan/Iraq in the early 2000's, and it wasn't because of our lack of technological superiority.
>>676935158
Because drones and jets can go door to door looking for rebels?
>>676934948
Alright, I'll concede that. However, it isn't necessary for the interpretation of the rules. They still stand for everyone, regardless if you believe in god or not.
>>676934986
I know that there will be a lot of angsty twenty somethings bum rushing entire companies with their knockoff plate carriers and shrubmaster ARs
>>676935117
11 week. Not sure who told you is was 3, lol.
>>676935380
Shut the fuck up you stupid fucking boot. Have you even hit the fleet yet?
>>676935380
the average military course is 3 weeks
I was talking about all available combat courses
not infantry OSUT
and I specifically excluded infantry OSUT because the post I replied to was talking about non-infantrymen
and that post was in reply to my post were I was talking about non-infantrymen
>>676927360
>amendment only applies to militia not the average person
The Supreme Court disagrees, and it's opinion on the matter is all that matters. It's true that it's opinion could change, but this is highly unlikely. Once a particular court makes a decision, traditionally all future courts will uphold that decision, and will most likely refuse to even hear the case again.
>>676935337
Entire companies attacking, um. Where? Des Moines? Why? You're going to set the army loose in Iowa? At what point does this scenario intersect with reality?
>>676935081
Not necessarily.
Because it's all based on the premise that these things could happen in the 100% worst case scenario. It's not necessarily based on the premise that it will, just that it could, and if it does, it would be impossible to defend yourself without guns.
>>676935158
What it should be and what it is are two separate things.
And the answer to what you would do is the exact same as what any other less well prepared fighting force has done against the US army: Guerrilla them to death. The best that the government can hope for is to hold the citizens off while the citizens can just keep popping up for years, gradually wearing down the government.
It also helps that if you just start blowing up your own cities and alienating your own people, you're going to run out of funds and resources to maintain those shiny drones and fighter jets.
1) militia refers to the civilian populace. It does not refer to some organized group of people specially designated as a militia. Go read your history
2) well-regulated in that context and in that time just meant that it was functioning properly and on proper working order. It certainly doesn't mean subject to federal restrictions
It's pretty simple anon.
>>676935863
Really though? Like I mean do you really think there is any possibility of it happening?
>>676935805
A company is pretty fucking small, dude. They normally deploy a battalion plus support elements to a province in Afghanistan.
>>676927814
You must be top cuck of the thread. Thomas Jefferson supported rewriting the Constitution every 19 years, equated not doing so to being 'enslaved to the prior generation'
most state constitutions define the militia as all males from the age of 16 to 43
also the National Guard are armies and air forces owned by the states rather than the federal government, not a militia
>>676936257
There's always a chance, yes. That chance only becomes greater when the population is disarmed.
Like, people act like there's no way the government would turn tyrannical. And right now? Yeah, probably not. Because we're *armed*.
But if you take away those arms, then what way do you have to stop the government if it does decide to turn tyrannical?
>>676936283
What's your point? US Army vs. Des Moines. I'm waiting for a plausible scenario where citizenry without guns is better off.
>>676936548
#stopoppressingme #lolImirrelevantasfuck
>>676930110
ISIS is standing a chance against the US military. And there's what, 100,000 of them?
Okay so basically how this would have to happen is. The government would have to become tyrannical and have the support from the vast majority of the military. Which is most likely not going to happen so it ends there.
Or let's say somehow the govt does somehow get the support of the military. There would be plenty of casualties on the govt side, but there would probably be a far greater loss of life on the side of the citizens seeing as the govt has far better weaponry then Elmer Fudd. So at this point the rest of the world sees a country slaughtering its own people and steps and saves Fudd from the govt. Okay sooo how did the 2nd amendment really help here?
>>676936638
I'm not anti gun, dude, I'm just saying it's not going to be as easy as you think. It would be a long thing like Afghanistan if anything
>>676936345
Someone obviously hasn't been reading the thread.
The Constitution is not rewritten every 19 years. This is a fact. It is still the same as it was when it was written and/or ratified. They even keep it in a specially pressurized protective vault to keep it that way.
We're also not talking about the Constitution as a whole, we're talking about the second amendment, as per the original post.
In short, fuck off cucklord. I'm sure you have a bull to prep somewhere else.
>>676936638
1) you're implying the entire US army would be fully functioning and cooperating with a government ordering them to kill americans. There are studies out there that suggest rates as high as 75% of military personnel would desert in those situations.
2) civilians can hold of high-quality militaries. It happens a lot in history. Farmers in pyjamas with AKs gave the US a run for their money. Goatmen with AKs gave the Soviets and then the UD a run for their money.
3) I'm not sure how you can possibly think that 1 million people with guns are just as easy to kill as 1 million people without guns.
>>676936946
>Okay sooo how did the 2nd amendment really help here?
By preventing the conflict from happening in the first place.
>>676929380
Because there's over 270 million guns circulating in the u.s. they're not just going to go away within the next 20 years bud
>>676936940
Really? Come on now. You really think isis can beat the U.S military? Because I mean thats who we are talking about fighting in this scenario
>>676936978
Peace. I'm not in denial.
>>676936946
it gave Fudd the ability to inflict harm on the govt and force the govt to kill its citizens rather than disappearing them to re-education facilities so that the world would see that the govt no longer represented the people
>>676937254
ISIS, no way. But we're talking 300,000,000 in the USA.
>>676937206
Cool. You're right. I'm fucking dumb.
Sheesh.
>>676937249
There's a fuckload more than that. You could literally have racks of them sitting in hospitals waiting for newborns assuming one gun per person.
>>676937254
You people who scoff at the idea of armed Americans resisting the US military are the same people who then laugh at the US military for losing to book farmers in Vietnam and goat fuckers in Afghanistan
>>676937521
I'm extremely disappointed in myself and pretty much everyone else for how rarely this point is brought up.
>>676937689
It is actually a pretty good point, isn't it?
>>676937521
>book farmers
nigga
where you think books come from?
>>676936548
Are you fucking stupid? We established its not rewritten every 19 years, it SHOULD OF BEEN. This would amend exactly what you're talking about. Man I'm so glad I don't live in America with you trumpfags
>>676937793
Learnt sumpin new today
>>676937521
Those aren't really comparable though. I mean for startes the US is fighting in a different country not their own. And 2nd of all let's not act like casualties aren't far higher on the Vietnamese/Afghan side of things
>>676929695
why is there like a trigger within a trigger? Is that some sort of safety?
Obvious non-gun owner here.
>>676927360
I own and enjoy firearms. Fucking deal with it...
>>676937878
>Are you fucking stupid?
>SHOULD OF BEEN
>>676937246
Oh yeah I forgot that this shit happens all the time in countries like the UK where the majority of the citizens aren't armed
>>676938070
>Thomas Jefferson supported rewriting the Constitution every 19 years, equated not doing so to being 'enslaved to the prior generation'
>>676927360
>not recognizing the punctuation that makes those things separate
>everywhere else constitution is solid but they fucked up here for some reason
>willful misinterpretation to infringe on rights you don't think others should have
>>676937878
Replied to the wrong person, numbnuts.
Whether or not it should have been rewritten is irrelevant to the conversation. While you're right in that it probably should have been, it is not, so your point has no meaning except to bitch incessantly and derail the discussion.
I'm glad you don't live here too, people like you are what make this country a shithole to begin with.
>>676938015
Basically, both have to be fully depressed to fire the gun. Lot of snags wont do that. Carry guns usually don't have typical safeties.
>>676937329
Did we just agree after an argument on /b/?
has this ever happened before?
>>676938188
Do you really think the US government is not corrupt enough to do that shit if given the opportunity? It's obviously not the constitution stopping them from pulling more bullshit.
>>676938188
Countries like soviet Russia.
Nice cherry picking.
>>676938511
dubs confirms
signing off
>isn't american
>is salty that he cannot legally own firearms
>misreads the constitution
>uses foreign document to prove point
>there is no point
>makes a thread about it
When will Europoors ever learn?
>>676934901
>vietnam
>>676927360
>americans "god given right" to own a gun
mfw I'm an atheist who agrees with the constitutional right to own a gun. There are no "god given rights" in murrica, retard.
>amendment only applies to militia not the average person
mfw the supreme court already ruled against your bs interpretation
>mfw americans have been bitching about a misinterpretation this whole time
Yep, gun-banning politicians and the Americans that support them have been bitching about a misinterpretation. And they were proved wrong.
Maybe you should focus on things you're good at, op. Like sucking cocks.
>>676930110
> I do not know Vietnam or Afghanistan exist: The post
>>676931532
>>676931197
>>676931513
Touche, thanks guys.
>>676938559
Really? That's the example you pick. Come on now. And don't act like that's at all similar to the U.S
>>676931080
The NVA would like a word with you about that.
>>676938539
Well why don't other governments then? What is the U.S govt the only corrupt one?
>>676927360
go back to brussels mohammed
>>676940005
Not all governments are the same maybe? The US government is drunk on it's own power and all it's going to take is enough batshit insane people that they don't care that we're armed or they try confiscation.
>>676938979
>>676939666
>>676939869
>implying Vietnam/Afghanistan is at all similar to the situation discussed in this thread
>implying that there wasn't a greater loss of life on their sides of the conflict
>>676927360
>>676928822
god you people are fucking stupid, look up the meaning of the words in the era dumbfucks
>>676940224
And when they do, they will learn the hard way why they are not allowed to, as per the second amendment. See how that works?
So like im trying to picture it now. The U.S govt slaughtering it's own civilians. So another country has to come in and save the day. Save U.S citizens from themselves. Would they still have all their "American pride" afterwards?
I'll just leave this here
>>676927360
Define militia
>>676940281
All situations have large guerilla forces fighting a formal military and putting up a hell of a fight.
The difference is location and numbers. When the opposing force potentially outnumbers the whole military by hundreds of thousands to millions and isn't using rusted to hell AKs held together by spit, duct tape, and Kalashnikov's ghost shit is much harder.
>>676940711
That's kinda the point I've been trying to make the whole thread.
>>676940281
you're right, it's like vietnam but the government can only rely on recruiting locals to fight the locals that feed and produce every material they need.
>>676940996
So... USA political system is as bad as the dictatorship in Syria?
Wow, congrats!
Also, does that mean whomever shot Kennedy was simply exercising their rights to fight against what they perceived as tyranny?
>>676935157
I like it.
>>676928317
No Thomas Jefferson himself said it was intended to protect the populus from another tyrannical government.
>>676941359
No. Try again. This time read it more carefully.
It's simply making the point that guns are necessary to resist tyrannical government. If the government says they don't want the people to have guns, it just opens the path for tyranny. No, the US isn't currently at that point. But it could one day reach that point.
>>676928822
regulated in the era meant maintained, it had nothing to do with making restrictions until closer to the 21st century
>>676941302
Except it would be easier for the U.S to deploy and that in both of these examples they aren't winning the fight in the typical sense. They are just holding out until the U.S gets tired and pulls out. But in our scenario that doesn't happen really because where does the U.S pull out to?
>>676929380
Go watch armed citizen. Guns save lives, you just don't hear about it. Children have defended themselves from burglars with a simple .22. Guns improve quality of life for everyone. You can let your children get raped and murdered you idiot, but don't tell me I can't defend myself.
>>676929380
>not everyone has to defend themselves during their life
>no one else should have the means to do so
>>676941305
Looks like the key to fixing homicide rates is to prohibit something and then make it legal again.
The second amendment is not about self defense or hunting.
It was created to ensure that the people of the United States would always have free access to any and all weapons it might need to be the equal of the governments armed forces. So that should the government become oppressive the people could once again overthrow it's government and Institute a new government.
>>676927360
>>676928317
It refers to militias yes, but militias are formed from average citizens. More importantly in 2008 the supreme Court decided it did protect the individuals right to own and carry weapons. So if you had made this argument 8 years ago you might have had a point, but not anymore.
>>676941359
Nice strawman. No, the US govt is not as bad as Syria, and it never will be because of basic cultural differences. But the US government does not represent its population anymore, it represents the wealthy. So the government is now in a position where they want to slowly remove our rights-- take away our arms, remove privacy, destroy due process. That's the only way they can maintain power indefinitely. This has happened in Western countries before, and it never leads to good things.
>>676942275
Or, you know, pay more attention to the left side of the graph where the rate is lowest.
>>676941317
Exactly. It's obviously a ridiculous scenario that wouldn't happen. The military isn't going to back the govt against its own people. So it again begs the question of what the point of the 2nd ammendment is.
>>676933272
you watch too much tv
>>676930532
>while criminals get them easy
Good job, Europe! The system works! Fucking morons
>>676942460
Happens all the time
>>676930110
I need a gun to keep cuck liberals from my own country and euro cucks from coming into my house and telling me what to do.
>>676931080
We wouldn't win, but they can't fit all of their relatives into a bunker and feed them forever. A lot of government officials could be targeted before mercenaries get here, because the majority of our police and military have already said they are not going to fight their own citizens to take away guns.
>>676942118
History's graveyard. You simply can't fight this unless you say "fuck it" and just nuke everything and start from scratch. You literally make more fighters every time you do anything major and you have no clue who they are until they shoot at you, and even then you may not even spot them.
Google a crowded sidewalk or packed stadium image. 3% of the people in the image are rebels. They can clearly see you but you have no fucking clue they're there beyond base statistics saying they will be until they attack assuming they do it directly. Now have average infantry, a tank, helicopter, or jet engage them. You just killed a bunch of civilians and MAYBE got the guy. But hey, those civilians had families, now angry as fuck families likely willing to take up the sword.
>>676942460
To prevent the scenario from happening at all.
For example, mosquitoes can bite you. They are much less likely to bite you if you wear bugspray than if you are not.
>>676942460
>>676942460
yeah it will, it happens all the time
>>676942781
No it does not. Look at Europe. And no you can't compare it to warlords in Africa or some shit.
>>676934901
Not having guns definitely won't help, retard.
>>676943416
>Happens all the time in America
Better?
>>676931080
Fucking kek. Euro fags are good lil scared slaves. I'm about to smoke meth behind the dumpsters at Denny's and no ones gonna come bother me and no one will report me because Murica.
I love how the average argument against the 2nd amendment's main purpose boils down to "You can't do anything anyways so just bend over and hope they use lube."
>>676930268
This brings up an interesting question, what makes a political system "the best" political system?
I would argue that the best political system is the one that the most people in a country are happy with.
You can't really judge a system based on crime because a completely crime free system leans more toward a dictatorship where the freedom of the people is restricted at every turn for "their own safety"
In reality, a perfect political system is completely suggestive, therefore the best system is what the most people are happy with.
>>676934901
"Muskets can't stop the might of the British army!"
>>676943416
>Look at Europe
Mein kek
>>676943618
What's it like being so scarred of your government?
>>676928822
you may be misinterpreting what regulated means there. also, militia can be any man, back then.
>>676942429
That's true, the best way to lower homicide rates is to simply not report them
Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8
>>676927360
>>676943796
Most people here in America think of our own government as a laughing stock.
American politics are a joke, even to Americans, it's just a fun little past time for us to call each other morons for voting in favor of the guy with funny hair
>>676943782
>uses a 70 year old example
>implying guns would have stopped it
>implying other countries didn't come in and depose him (much like what would happen in the U.S in this situation)
Nice try
>>676944250
A lot more jews might have avoided the ovens.
>>676944128
Unfortunately, this is true....maybe someday well get a politician in there that's not corrupt, and actually does some good for this country.
>>676944128
Sad thing is that the moron with the funny hair has the ability to change shit up in the most annoying ways possible. Same with the other guys against him.
We probably shouldn't treat this shit as a joke, since it does affect us all.
>>676927360
murkins are stupid, they'll aggressively state the same tired old shit about a bunch of shitfucks who wrote something down 200 fucking years ago that they have all been indoctrinated into believing and defending.
They are like the retarded kid on the world's playground that will yell and scream and throw a tantrum if you dare offend "muh values". They are retarded, I'm not going there so let them measure shit in fucked up increments and blow each others brains out. They are only hurting themselves.
>>676943763
Nigger. Are you seriously comparing what the British govt. had at its disposal to fight the revolutionaries to what the U.S govt has at its disposal now?
>>676944408
funny hair.....
not sure who this is, they all got some funny hair
>>676944408
Pretty much, Trump certainly isn't my first choice but he beats the other two "options"
At least he has a good knowledge of power dynamics and business practice
>>676944508
just the guns nuts
>>676944682
yikes....Trump will destroy this country
>>676944682
Lol really? Isn't he the one who talks as if Mexico is your biggest enemy?
>>676944823
He's a moron
>>676944820
>Hillary will destroy this country
ftfy
>>676944952
exactly
>>676944620
Exactly. And they all fucking suck as options to run a country.
>>676944682
I honestly just think he's the one who will do the least amount of damage. Bernie will absolutely fuck our already shit system up, and Hillary will destroy the nation for sure.
But that's not the point of this thread. Keep on topic, please.
>>676944128
Don't worry the rest of the world laughs at you too. When Donald Trump is a favorite to when your countries election it's hard not to laugh.
We train by shooting each other
>>676944727
The gun nuts aren't killing eachother, the fucking niggers are.
>>676944367
No because the Germans didn't really care. Either way it doesn't change the whole point of the post
>>676945116
the rest of the world still hangs on american politics, waiting to see who the new leader of the world will be
pretty pathetic tbh. europe's ruined by debt, flooded with muslims, and all you retards talk about is america
but it's funny too
>>676927360
"A well-regulated militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." If you actually read the bill of rights, it becomes blindingly obvious that the founding fathers meant for every citizen to have the right to bear arms. They use the term "the people" in almost every amendment, and every time it is referencing the citizens of the United States.
>>676944250
Oh that's right, other countries came with flowers from gun-free countires like the USA and signed a treaty that ended the war, there were no guns involved, Hitler didn't disarm anyone and peacefully surrendered. And there so many powerful 1st world countries that will automatically go out of their way to fight a world military superpower cuz everyone loves America nowadays. Won't it be just great if Chinese or Russians come to the fight and take over afterward?
>>676945284
haven't seen a black kid shoot up a school in a while...
usually lilly white neo nazi jack asses
>>676927360
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlIeGSNvYuE
>>676943618
>Europeans are scared
>Europeans arent the ones who own guns because they are scared of "muh government"
What
>>676944823
Maybe it is. How many Americans are killed by Russians? Chinese? Koreans? They aren't even threats to the US. But the drugs the cartel brings over the border kill thousands.
>>676944820
Everyone claims that every politician will "destroy this country and cause WWIII"
>>676944823
Not really, the only thing he has said about mexico is the whole wall thing and about how they keep sending us illegals.
>>676945099
Honestly I think Hilary would be the most stable candidate, but this certainly isn't a good thing. She is only interested in furthering her career and likely would be the least productive person ever nominated if she got in. But that's just my own prediction.
>>676945116
Every country is a laughing stock in their own sector, take Sweden, the UK, and Germany for example. I doubt your shit country is flawless either.
>>676943618
then why do it behind the dumpster ice freak? why not on the lawns of the whitehouse?
fucking drug addict dumb fuck
>>676945291
It's a lot harder to herd people into death camps when they're shooting at you.
>>676930110
Yet I'm sure you're the same faggot to turn around and claim the US army is garbage and incapable of fighting guerillas in Vietnam.
Liberals are by their very nature hypocrites.
>>676927360
>> amendment only applies to militia not the average person
Militias are made up of average persons. How did you think it works? Need to apply at city hall for your militia-permit? Go to militia school? Join the militia guild?
>>676945411
What the fuck are you even talking about? Obviously other countries militaries came in with weapons to handle the situation. But we are talking about a countries armed populace stopping it to begin with.
>>676945417
You're correct, I won't deny facts. White people are more likely to go on shooting sprees. More likely to be serial killers, too. But fortunately, those are very small numbers. Mass shootings are still fairly rare, and kill less than 50 people a year, on average. Black on black violence, however, is much more common, and thousands per year die as a result. You may not like it, but don't deny the facts.
>>676945417
And how many school shootings have you personally witnessed, retard?
>>676945787
Cmon bromium, you can't expect hippies to know anything about actual warfare
>>676945411
>Autism: The Post
>>676945787
You're so fucking stupid. As has been stated many many times. The Vietnam War example isn't really a good example. And furthermore you are pretending as if there weren't more casualties on the Vietnam side of things.
>>676945869
plenty, your media goes apeshit whenever it happens and all our pathetic murka wannabe media outlets follow suit
I always break out the pop corn and alcohol, nothing beats 9/11 though for round the clock butt hurt
>>676945417
Pretty bad when white people are better than black people at murdering as well, considering the statistics.
Here's a fun little chart showing us that despite being only 14% of the population black people somehow manage to commit the majority of homicides
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43
>>676946117
Stop repeating yourself. Several posters have explained why you're a tard.
>>676945599
Yet Mexico seems to be the big point of his bid for presidency. As if it is the biggest problem facing your country.
>>676946117
>Vietnam example isn't a good one
How so?
>You're pretending as if there weren't more casualties on the Vietnam side of things.
My post isn't arguing anything pertaining to civilian casualties.
TLDR: You attacked a straw man after making a subjective claim. Good job, faggot.
>>676945599
Mostly, I'm just hoping Trump shakes shit up just enough for there to be pieces left afterwards. I think Hillary would make a slew of bad decisions and end up taking everyone down with her. Bernie... Bernie's probably got the right mindset, if he actually wants to help people. But he's going about it the wrong way, peter-pan politics never works, and the military does actually need a bit more loving after Obama's current warpath of cutting it down.
I only say it needs to be beefed up because Russia is beefing up for something drastic, and the rest of Europe is burning. We're getting into an uncertain time, and it's best to be prepared for anything.
>>676946331
No they fucking haven't idiot. Explain to me how it's similar. And don't say "muh gorilla fighters" no its not the same fuck tard.
>>676946468
Ugh, peter-pan, I'm a dumbass. Meant to say Robin Hood.
>>676942460
Kent state? Where the national guard gunned down unarmed college kids protesting vietnam? What about Waco, where they used armored vehicles against the Branch Dividians?
The point about training IS about owning guns. Its a lot different than playing a shooting game on x-box. Any faggot who thinks anybody whos never fired a gun is going to be sucessful in an uprising has been watchin too much tv.
>>676941305
Where's the original for this?
I wanna know what the numbers down the side stand for.
>>676946569
Except that's literally it you insufferable fucking assclown. Guerilla warfare is hard as fuck to fight against anywhere, it's even worse when you're both from the same place and those guerillas practicing asymmetric warfare all over your face are good shots with great equipment and weapons for the job. Pull your fucking head out of your ass and understand this. THIS IS NOT HARD.
>>676946348
In a lot of states it IS the biggest problem facing our country. A lot of foreign nations tend to forget how diverse our country is, we have 10X the population of most european countries, and there is enough space for us to have at least 4 different types of "american accent", it's part of the reason politicians try not to speak on issues unless it's something everybody wants, too many variables to deal with, this is why we have people like Trump who can say a lot, and yet say nothing but still have a good shot at the presidency.
>>676946468
I actually kind of liked Bernie and his policies until you hear him speak. Every time you hear him talk he says some crazy shit that alienates everyone except black people and feminists.
>>676927360
OP Picture ha ha ha those nips and their white penis envy
>>676946117
Remember when the US military went into Iraq in 2003? We in the US acted like we were going to kick these dirt farmers asses in a few months to a couple years. It's 2016 and we're still there fighting
>>676947146
Agreed. I sort of liked Bernie, but he keeps coming across as a SJW. Also, I don't trust people who push socialism AFTER making millions off of capitalism.
>>676947146
Mostly, I'm just hoping to get through to the next election, and see if maybe we'll get someone who both cares about the country AND knows what the fuck they're doing.
>>676946402
Well first of all the U.S govt wouldn't be fighting someone over seas. It'd be in their own backyard. It'd be easier to deploy the full strength of your military. Second of all Vietnam wasn't a war in which the Vietcong won through traditional means. They basically just held out until politics forced the U.S to withdraw. Which wouldn't be the case in this scenario since the U.S couldn't withdraw anywhere. And yes there were a ton of civilian casualties. Which is what would happen in thus threads scenario. But that's besides the point. The NVA itself though had more casualties than the U.S.
>>676927360
>only applies to militia not the average person
Yeah no
