ITT: we dicuss whether or not atheism is hypocritical.
First off i want to say that i n no way am saying that it is not possible that a god does not exist, it is just the that we know next to nothing about the universe and physics when you think about it and it is in my opninion arrogant to say with absolute certainty whether ot not there is a god. now i'll get into my main argument in a sec, but i also want to point out that this ofcourse also applies to theist of all kinds, but since atheists seem to base their belief off of science i think this discussion is best directed towars them.
also just to establish what a god is (imo) im going to make some criteria. notice that a god does not have to be the god in the bible, quoran, old testement and so on, but rather a being that is beyond the morals that we as humans have set. a god has to be all powerful, that means he needs to be able to break the laws that we believe to be absolute, that means the law of eqivielent ( idk cant spell that shit) exchance, gravity and the law of relativity and so on. that which we call god must be above all this to achieve the state of god, ótherwise it will just be an entity whom is above us.
now my main argument is the fact that every single atheist i have ever, and i mean EVER met, believes that the universe started with the big bang, and basically all scientists believe this. now according to everything that we know the big bang makes no fucking sense at all. this is based off the fact that the big bang was indeed the start of the universe. now how the flying fuck can everything come from nothing. according to every rule in every science and every math 1 can only equal 1. nothing more and nothing less, and if this is not true then we cannot exist.
>inb4 my grammar is shit
>inb4 my spelling is sit
>inb4 there was so much nothing that it collapsed and created everything beacuse hoky shit that is fucking stupid and i have heard people say that
now my thoughts on the problem that i just proposed is that we were created from another universe that does not neccesarily abide by the laws that we know of. this could mean that it exists in a higher dimension or some shit bottom line is that we would be a program which would amke sense since every thing makes mathmatical sense. ofcourse i dont know this and just to clarify i am agnostic so dont call me an idiot for being a theist cuz i aint son.
rumber bumber
What makes someone an atheist? Does that word simply refer to people who don't go to Church regularly? Most people don't even think about God
>>676349081
Agnostic atheism is reasonable, but I completely agree with you about atheism on a whole being hypocritical.
>>676350513
"Agnostic" means "without knowledge" or "unaware". It's basically an admission of ignorance on the subject of deities and whatnot.
Conversely, "atheistic" essentially means "godless" or "no god", and is an assertion that there is no higher power.
Agnosticism is reasonable. Not knowing the truth is realistic.
>>676349081
Okay, let me point out why you sound pretty stupid and uneducated:
>we know the big bang makes no fucking sense at all
>now how the flying fuck can everything come from nothing
That's not what the big bang theory states. It just states that everything came from one very tiny point, the singularity, and that nobody knows or can know what was before it.
Also there's no rule that something can't come from nothing. We have no nothing to observe. Maybe that's what nothing does all the time, spawning something. Remember that nothing means not empty space, it does not mean no space, it means no space, no time, no rules of physics, no mathematics, no rules at all.. that's what nothing means. And we literally know nothing about this kind of nothingness. And we can't see beyond the singularity, not even with math, we can't calculate anything beyond that point cause every mathematical rule breaks down at that point.
This has nothing to do with God or no God though. Science doesn't address the question of God, that's what religion does. Science simply observes things in this universe that it can observe, not things outside of the universe like a possible God. It can't make any judgment on if a God exists or not and also doesn't want to.
Also string theory (science) is a multiverse theory that pretty much hypothesizes about our universe spawning from a "multidimensional bubble of existence collision" so scientists are way ahead of you.
>>676349081
>atheism
Get a hobby, would you? No one gives a fuck. You come off as severely insecure.
>>676350513
an atheist is a person that does not think that a godly entity has created us or exists.
>>676351031
thats the thing dude, i feel like most people that call themselves atheists are not completely aware of what it means
>>676351993
exactly, it seems unreasenable(cantspell) to completely close off a scenario when we by all definitions know very very little about the topic.
K
>>676352172
Right. I feel you sir. Good luck with the stubborn assholes on here. Unfortunately, I've run out of time.
>>676352033
religion and science both class under philosophies and they can certainly be connected. and youre basically agreeing with me, all that im saying is that we do not know enough to coclude whether or not there is something or someone that created us and the universe.
"...everything came from one very tiny point, the singularity, and that nobody knows or can know what was before it."
And why couldn't we just substitute God for "very tiny point", call it a day, and get a pint?
>>676349081
I'm an atheist but that was tl;dr mate.
>>676352540
tldr: we too stupid to say whether there is a god or not so atheism is in its core as hypocritical as it calls theism.
>>676352420
pondered this too but it seems to convienient, i cant back this claim up in any way its just a gut feeling.
>>676351993
Atheism = lack of theism. Gnostic atheists assert there is no God, but atheism itself is simply lacking the belief in god, which makes all agnostics atheists since they lack that belief, regardless of whether or not they assert the contrary
>>676352389
>all that im saying is that we do not know enough to coclude whether or not there is something or someone that created us and the universe.
I agree. Just don't like the science bashing. You can still bash atheists, but if you call the big bang theory nonsensical or stupid, well be prepared to get schooled.
>>676352420
All I care God himself has pooped the very tiny point straight out of his asshole, I have no problems with believers, unless they are science bashing idiots with a potato IQ, those types are just incredibly annoying.
>>676352946
i woudl like to be schooled, never got how people hate losing arguments the loosing party are the ones who abtain new and more valid info. please for fucks sake help me understand what there is to be understood.
>>676353437
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/
offers a pretty good summary.
Just remember that this theory makes no, absolutely no claims on what came before the big bang. Could be God, could be anything, science doesn't know, science doesn't care.
Now if an atheist comes along and states that the big bang theory supports his claims about God or lack of God, you can tell him just that.
If anything big bang theory states that everything had a beginning, the singularity, it wasn't just always there, so if anything you could say this theory points to a creator (or at least as much as it doesn't point to one, in reality it just makes no claim about one or not one whatsoever)
>>676354157
so to conclude we know nothing about the fact that we know nothing and even if we try to explain it with our logic and science nothing points to the fact that it at all applies to the beginning if the beginning even ever happened.
>>676349081
When people flip a coin they assume the chance that it lands on heads or tails is both 50%.
Is it "arrogant" to assume that the coin will not land on its side?
No, the chance that it will land on its side is so small that it's not worth taking into account.
>>676349081
"All the ideologies and religions have their own answers for the big questions, but these are usually bound as a dogma to some kind of tribe. Religions in particular feature supernatural elements that other tribes, other faiths, cannot accept, And every tribe, no matter how generous, benign, loving and charitable, nonetheless looks down on all other tribes. What's dragging down human progress worldwide is religious faith."
"Their commodity is fear. They blackmail their parishioners with threats of hell and damnation. These poor deluded people give them their hard earned money to save them from a hell that does not exist, and from eternal torment that was invented by the corrupt minds of priests to rob the living and in addition, they are exempt from taxation! Insult to injury!
Let me tell you that religion is the cruelest fraud ever perpetrated upon the human race. It is the last of the great scheme of thievery that man must legally prohibit so as to protect himself from the charlatans who prey upon the ignorance and fears of the people.The penalty for this type of extortion should be as severe as it is of other forms of dishonesty."
"The income of the priest class is totally dependent on their continued ability to sell invisible goods to suckers, they praise and glorify faith to the skies, complimenting people on how much of it they have. If it weren't for faith, they'd be out of business, and they know it."
>>676349081
Go and look up the word atheism in a dictionary you fool.
>>676349104
And while you're at it try familiarising yourself with what the big bang theory does, and does not, say.
>>676349104
up there in outer space, in what you think is completely empty space, did you know particles pop in to and out of existence all the time, and some of those particles stay in a state of existence and eventually they bond with other particles to make up atoms of hydrogen, why hydrogen you ask? because it is the simplest and lightest element there is, and given enough time there is massive amounts of it build up that get squeezed together by gravity and when enough of it gets built up it makes gas clouds that give birth to stars
>>676355483
that is retarded dude, it is arrogant to say it will land on its side if we have no idea what the shape of the coin is, whethe ror not there is a surface and even if theres a fucking coin, so yeah get out seriously youre stupid.
>>676356772
>we have no idea what the shape of the coin is, whethe ror not there is a surface and even if theres a fucking coin
>>676355842
whether or not this is true is irrelevent to this thread, we do not discuss if religion is good in its actions or beliefs but rather what underlines the thought. so ye getout
>>we know next to nothing about the universe and physics when you think about it
ok buddy. you know nothing, the human collective of scientists and great minds actually know a shitload. enough to even proposed and model string theory. educate yourself you psuedo fucking intellectual obvious american cunt
>>676349081
physics fag here
things can and do come fom nothing
for example, when a neutron in a proton poor nucleus becomes a proton and electron and an anti electron neutrino are created (shown in the diagram) see the squiggly line? well thats the boson often called the force carrier. It is literally using energy that it does not have yet, it BORROWS energy for mere femto seconds (10−15 or 1/1,000,000,000,000,000 of a second. That is one quadrillionth, or one millionth of one billionth, of a second) then the energy it already used to do the interaction is payed back by the products that were created by this energy but the products remain in there.
youre probably like well anon i dont give wo niggers about energy im talking about matter. well E=MC^2 so energy is matter.
also im a black guy
>>676358404
from denmark, hi :).
and fuck you twat, lets see how right you are
lets see what we know about shit, okay så shit is made of stuff and stuff is mad eof molucules (like you, you shit) and those molucules are made of atoms and those atoms are made of electrons neutrons and protons and neutrons and electrons are basically photons and neutrons and protons are mad eof quarks and leptons. okay so what thefuckittyfuck are quarks and leptons.
look idk man fuck you
>>676358595
>like well anon i dont give wo niggers about energy im talking about matter. well E=MC^2 so energy is matter.
>also im a black guy
>inb4 bad spelling
i went to a party last night and got absolutely shitfaced so i dont care
>>676358595
yeah yeah no okay so let me get this straight. we might be able to make shit from nothing in the future? because holy fuck that would be the shit.
and no your enot black, black peeps cant science, trust me im egyptian so i make pyramids and shit.
>>676358595
that doesn't violate conservation of energy, though.
Don't try to mislead people; "something from nothing" isn't the same as boson interaction.
For conventional matter to "come from nothing", it would have to violate conservation of energy.
>>676358736
physics fag again
protons are a hadron they arent made of leptons
leptons are fundamental they are made up of only themselve
quarks are also fundamental
string theory basically says that down at the heart of all fundamental is a string and if you twang that string your up quark might change flavors and a proton can become a neutron
yes theyre called flavors
>>676358595
also can you make me understand the first part better. like use stupid laguage, i think you were talking about the creation of an atom with the whole energy = matter and all that shazzizzle with antimatter and stuff.
hey also is it possible that antimatter and dark matter are the same thing. if it will take too long to explain why that woudl be fuckings tupid then just say so.
>>676358595
>also I'm a black guy
Just how many jimmies do you plan on rustling there bud?
>>676358984
lmao nigga what
we might some day, shit we could do it in 100 years if humans stopped drawing lines on maps and just coexisted and the trillions that go into war went into science.
in 10 years we would have unlimited energy
30 we would have AI
40 we could cure basically anything
25 we could upload our consciousness to a computer
stop the aging process in 30 years
colonize our galaxy in 200 years
we could do soooo fucking much but nah trillions on war
>>676349081
There's no evidence for a deity. I'm forced not to believe because I haven't been convinced.
There are two forms of atheism. Strong and weak atheism. Agnostic (weak) atheism, is the only kind rational atheists subscribe to. Strong atheism is in theory a possible belief to hold, but nobody with a brain does.
OP is a moron and makes assumptions based on his lack of knowledge, not sciences.
Either there is good evidence for the existence of a god, or logical necessity that a godlike being must exist, or there isn't. As of yet, there have been no convincing arguments for the existence of god, thus the default position is agnostic atheism. End of discussion, move along.
>>676359105
Ill go by Dr.nigger from now on
the conservation of energy doesn't need to be violated to create something from nothing. also the conservation of energy didn't exist before the big bang. non of the laws of quantum mechanics did. time didn't even exist.
>>676359493
Colonize our galaxy in 200 years? Do you know how big the galaxy is? I think you might mean solar system.
>>676360104
it would be so simple
theres a detailed method in which we would only need to initiate the start.
you need an ai robot and ship
very very do able in 20000 years
put kids in the ship with ai and send to remote planets that can sustain life or be quickly terraformed. the children grow and much like adam and eve they populate and this time no religion to hinder the process and hopefully no war. within 900 years theyll reach our tech. then they do the same. the ai would stay with them the entire time teaching them about sciences ect. soon theyll build another similar ship better possibly and do the same, they might send it to 5 planets each.
we would have to do this for only 30 generations before we colonize the milky way.
i meant 20000
like i said ,shitfaced
>>676349081
Atheists can be hypocritical, yes. Atheism itself is not.
>it is just the that we know next to nothing about the universe and physics when you think about it and it is in my opninion arrogant to say with absolute certainty whether ot not there is a god.
Argument from ignorance, plus strawman. Good job!
If we do not know what we are talking about, then we should keep our mouths shut until we fucking do. There is literally no reason to believe that gods exist. Our understanding the Universe does not hinge on it either way, and it is beyond the scope of science to explore.
However, show me reason to justify belief in any god you like, that isn't an emotional appeal, contrary to the shit we do know about reality (i.e. the Earth is much older than 6000 years; all of humanity does not descend from one breeding pair, etc.) or logically flawed, and I will happily believe. Until then I have no reason to. The ball is in your court though. Feel free to make your case at any time, or if that's too difficult, you could always continue to fling shit as that seems to be working so great for you as it is.
>>676360838
ive simplified this to a retarded extent
>>676360858
i believe in a god and ive studied physics at degree. studying this at degree level made me sure that a creator or engineer must be out there. Humans will never understand his mind and we weren't meant to. we probably wont ever meet him or her or it but it must be out there. A god could well exist in my opinion but a universe with its precise laws can not. the laws that govern the energy borrowing and the singularity and everything else had to come from somewhere.
>>676361521
More educated physicists than you disagree.
Of course atheism is hypocritical
Atheism is a religion that condemns the very existence of religions
It is like giving guns to people to prevent other people from having guns and using them
That is why I am agnostic
>>676361855
perhaps, but they will agree that there must be some initiator.
>>676360858
Proving you are a philosophy student doesn't prove you right.
>>676349104
The big bang theory is the prevailing cosmological scientific theory that explains the development of the universe from it being very small to very large. The big bang theory says nothing about the origin of space-time itself.
>>676361521
i like you black guy
>>676363353
i like you too anon
>>676362342
You have no idea what atheism is, and you condemn it. Brilliant.
Atheism condemns nothing. It holds no beliefs, and makes no assertions. Atheism is simply a lack of a belief in a god(s). What atheists believe varies from person to person.
You're referring to anti-theism.
>>676361855
Not always, and that's the point. Even the concept of a holographic universe was posited by an extremely intelligent and educated individual and recognized by many of the same. Complex, controversial theories are the bread and butter of theoretical physicists, and holding an opinion that flies in the face of modern logic and reasoning doesn't necessarily make it wrong.
Call me on whatever "fallacy" you wish, but remember that doing that doesn't discredit the argument. It just shows it to have holes, but making a *perfect* argument isn't needed in faith OR scientific theory. That is only for conclusions and laws. Poke all the holes you want in those.
>>676364099
Well buddy, I am not American to start with
And you must be homeshut with nothing if you don't see atheists rioting against religion
Agnostic - A person who doesn't follow any religion or pray to some god but believes that there must have been some higher power that created shit
>>676350513
you don't become an atheist, it's something you find out you already are.
>>676358595
i believed every part till you said you're black
now i'm a christian
>>676364486
The fuck are you on about?
>>676351993
atheism and agnosticism is not mutually exclusive.
most atheists are agnostic atheists in the sense that they don't know whether or not a deity exists and at the same time don't believe in a deity.
a GNOSTIC atheist is a person who says he doesn't believe in god and claims he knows that no god exists.
A-/Gnosticism deals with knowledge, A-/Theism deals with believe.
The standard philosophical definition of atheism is the disbelief in any gods.
The standard philosophical definition of agnosticism is the lack of belief in any gods.
>>676364486
Agnostic is a state of Gnosticism, which means "having knowledge." Agnostic means nothing on its own, it simply means not having knowledge. You're an agnostic theist, whereas I'm an agnostic atheist.
You're not sure whether or not a good exists, but believe there's something out there. I don't know whether or not a god exists, but since I have seen no evidence to support a god, I'm falling back to the default position that there isn't until I see proof.
