![John-Stuart-Mill[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/B2kFaEp.png "John-Stuart-Mill[1].png")
How come Americans don't know what Liberalism is? All I see is hate for liberals and libertarian beliefs when there's literally no negative effects to a liberal society.
cuz the right-wing blogosphere totally controls the media
>>675523933
>cuz the right-wing blogosphere totally controls the media
No you're just being paranoid.
>>675523144
mediocre b8 or weak understanding of the mutability of language? probably b8.
hm, definitely.
>>675524004
Not everything is controlled but the media is to some extent. I mean look how Ron Paul got shut down in media.
>>675523144
I think that's called "classical liberalism," but it get drowned out too much by all the noise against that "l-word" in general.
>>675524664
gets
>>675523144
Liberalism =/= libertarianism
>>675524664
It was close enough. 100% libertarians would just get wrecked in the U.S goverment.
>>675523144
Liberals are fine. "Progressives" are colossal fucking faggots.
>>675525260
100% libertarians also actively seek to create their own worst-case scenario dystopia. It's adorable.
Exactly, I'm a libertarian leaning person. I would want to live in a society like Iceland, where the police don't carry guns but the people do. The only time I would want the government to get involved in the economy would be to protect the environment. Other than that the only laws I would want would be to make murder and rape illegal.
>>675525544
Can you explain? I don't really know what the current state of libertarianism/liberalism or anarcho-capitalism is in the states.
>>675525639
*steals your shit*
*keys your car*
>>675523144
I think its because in America we call socialists liberals - it just sounds friendlier.
>>675526419
Basically, the worst thing to the libertarian mindset is a massively powerful government that interferes in your business any time it likes and controls you and prevents industry/innovation, all without democratic redress.
Pure libertarian economic/regulatory policies natural endgame is this, only the government in question is actually a private company and your sole source of employment.
>>675523933
>liberals aren't "right wing"
>>675526419
>anarcho-capitalism
made-up hipster version of 'kick the weak', just another in a long line of 'it's ok to be a douche, superior in fact' isms being sold to mean faced twenty somethings ever since the 'work your way up' and 'triumph over adversity' memes were shown to be straight up lies.
The robber barons who owned the media in the late 19th century invented the last two, it took some global wars for people to shake that crap off. Now we entertain young employees with the idea that they can somehow get a million dollars and withdraw from society while simaultaneously shitting on anyone poorer or weaker than them.
Brutal elitism is the American Dream. It started turning into a nightmare just after the Civil War.
>>675527956
I'm really fucking poor, but I don't think you get it. Anarcho - capitalism is just there for me so I can gladly call myself an anarchist without being a damn dirty commie. I'm open for debate on how shitty this could be, but I know perfectly there will never be a clear transition into this.
>>675528381
>>675527956
Maybe not really fucking poor, but just poor. I overreacted sorry for seeming like a douche.
>>675523144
American liberals want the government to be evolved with everything.
example: the government setting a limit to the number of times i can shit per day.
>>675525639
>protect the environment
>>CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP
You're a good one
>>675528796
Slow witted misstatement. They want government involved in things where not having the government involved fucking sucks. You disagree with which things those are is all.
>>675523144
>2 terms of liberal do nothing president
Where have you been OP?
I just hate the fact that people like to restrict other people. Why do they care? Why do they feel like they are achieving a victory in society when something gets restricted because they are the majority and they think it's bad.
>>675523144
Classical liberalism is dead OP, its been dead for years the whole thing has been twisted to create a new type of left that needs and craves government power it will never be the same.
That's what liberalism used to be. Modern liberalism is the polar opposite classical liberalism.
>>675529106
More like two terms of a good president partially spoiled by an obstructionist congress.
Obama hasn't really done as much to protect the environment and combat climate change as I would like, but a lot of that has to do with congress, and the normalization of climate denial that took place in the bush administration
Hasn't done shit to combat income inequality
Is keeping corporate money in politics, but that's to be accepted. It's what got him elected in the first place.
Not a great president, but certainly not a bad one either
>>675523144
Starting the 1960s the Republican party decided to associate the word 'liberal' with the enemy. Communists? liberal. Hippies? liberal. foreigners in general? liberal. It was basically an advertising campaign to make conservatism sound good.
The Democrats are such pussies they just went along with this and avoided using the word 'liberal' from then on. To this day moderate Americans are so brain washed they feel that the status quo is the only possible option, everything else is liberal and an affront to their ancestors.
>>675529997
It becomes tricky because the more complicated a society becomes, the more opportunities for control there are. The two most common options are either having the government step in and say "no, we control this so other people don't" or just letting whoever is best at gaining control through money or networking gain control.
>>675528381
There's no relation between anarchism and communism, unless it's the optimism about the people around you.
Anarcho-socialism is basically: deal fairly with your neighbors, or they'll kill you. Common sense and actually giving a fuck about the people around you means no need for cops, as everybody is a cop and all turn out to repel predatory selfish shitheads.
The US aversion to communism is programmed. It never was a matter of whether communism works or not, the point was that Capitalism was meant to be a bridge between Feudalism and Socialism. This point was so perfectly proved by Marx that the rich and aristocratic people of the time took measures to make sure that wouldn't happen. We've been doing donuts on the bridge ever since and there are strong plans afoot to get us back to an aristocratic feudal system.
>mfw it's possible to live a whole life as a worker consumer without ever meeting or eating with a truly rich person.
>>675523144
The problem is the regressives hijacked the term "liberal".
>>675529997
That's not the thing.
I am a liberal and I believe that everyone should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of everyone else or damage our collective prosperity.
I just stubled into this. How true is it?
>>675529106
>He thinks Obama is a liberal
Are you being ironic?
>>675523144
What liberalism has done to europe.
How about you stupid goys just realise that National Socialism is the ONLY ideology that protects you from big business capitalism but also offers you personal wealth and economic freedom, whilst not restricting you from making personal gains and private ownership which socialism does. The USA NEEDS National Socialism.
>>675530385
>accepted
*expected* not accepted
It definitely should not be accepted
>>675523144
This quote defines classical liberalism, or liberal-conservatism. It's totally different from the modern liberalism of today, which, like Communism, represents the interests of all the minorities except the smallest, most endangered minority of all... The individual.
>>675524664
You are correct. Modern day liberalism is more so cultural Marxism and socialism unfortunately. The founding fathers were classical liberals.
>>675530824
ONLY. USA NEEDS. How about you prove your point with some better arguments than some tumblr feminist? I don't need anyone to protect me.
>>675523144
As some others have previously stated, liberalism prior to the New Deal Era consists of "Classical Liberalism" and is completely fine, as it most closely corresponds to modern-day libertarianism.
Neo-Liberalism of today, post-new deal liberalism, is the bad version
>>675530821
>I allow the American ruling class to fuck me in the ass because I'm afraid of Arabs and niggers!!!!
>>675531452
Angry grandpa. Don't know if I should laugh or cry.
>>675531452
>I believe in peaceful loving communities inside the walls of my college dorm.
>>675531452
>let the arabs and niggers in they will somehow do something about american rulling class
Back to the mental ward pinko
>>675530782
The graph is misleading
Putting the US population and the incarcerated population makes it seem like there are far less drug addicts than there are people in prison.
But yes the war on drugs is complete bullshit and we should legalize the recreational use of everything, decriminalize the sale of non hard drugs such has weed or LSD, and some hard drugs like Coke. We should invest the money spent on the "drug war" into government run rehab programs.
The war on drugs has ruined a lot more life's than it has saved by throwing people in jail for using their own bodies the way they want, and has indirectly murdered many people by handing over should be legal markets over to cartels.
>>675531833
You completely missed the point.
>>675531095
Germany became the first country to introduce the 40 hour work week.
Germany eliminated Usury and nationalised the private central bank.
Germany reduced unemployment from 6 million to 0
The National Socialists restricted bigger businesses allowing small businesses to open and grow
The National Socialists created the
and made it so cheap almost every German family could afford it.
These are just a few examples.
Keep telling yourself you can protect yourself when big corporations gain more power and you find your taxes rising but your infrastructure crumbling. If you are a libertarian, an ideology which is amazing in practice, you'll see small businesses flourish initially but big business eventually gaining more market share and the small businesses being taken over by the larger corporations. Libertarianism is great when it restricts large businesses. Monopolies need to be broken up to ensure the market stays open and free for new businesses.
>>675529997
>I just hate the fact that people like to restrict other people.
I agree.
People think they know what individual liberty is, when they have no clue. Pic related.
>>675532371
*created the VolksWagen
>>675532354
Idiot. The point of this is not big companies, it's small companies. Heck I'm 15 and would like to go for some specific education to cut down time spent to get it by a lot of years and go to work sooner. A chef for example. So when you raise the minimum wage you make it harder for anybody to start a business, the big companies hate it, but it's like the "hitler liked it therefore it's bad" argument.
>>675523144
I think that you're just offering bait, but if you're not, you should understand that American liberalism has nothing to do with actual liberalism. They are the very thing that their predecessors would have abhorred.
>>675532354
you realize that there's millions of the one on the left for each one on the right in that picture?
>>675524572
that's not control?
>>675532501
See
>>675530743
And fuck off with that don't grasp basic economic bullshit, tell that to Keynes.
The new conservative "trickle down" economic philosophy is the failed concept.
>>675532371
I'm not a libertarian. There is no label you can put on me, I'm like trump, stuff is negotionable for me, but I will never back down when someone's freedom is taken over. The biggest fucking thing why I hate you socialists is the taxation. And social grants.
>>675525639
protect the environment. I'll give you a hint since you're slow on the uptake.
why do you think every things made in china?
>>675533126
It is, but some people are over-paranoid. I don't know how much the FBCIA can do to you, but the media only affects the stupid. One day enough people will be intelligent. One day.
>>675532952
And yet the top 1% of the nation owns 40% of the wealth and the bottom 80% owns 7%.
That's where the
>and you're okay with getting fucked in the ass by Americas ruling class
part comes in
>>675523144
Because most modern liberals are pretentious about those things and see politics as a method of forcing their agenda. I'm a liberal btw
>>675529040
>Slow witted misstatement
your statement was even dumber.
government intervention into private affairs is never good. you'll find out one day.
>>675533174
>And fuck off with that don't grasp basic economic bullshit
Yeah, because the common American is well informed in economics.
>The new conservative "trickle down" economic philosophy is the failed concept.
Never said it wasn't. But there is a reason why the rich are called job creators. Because this world doesn't revolve on government programs, it revolves on business.
>>675532849
>The point of this is not big companies, it's small companies
At this point, any regulation is being drafted under the guidance of the huge companies. That's why it's crony capitalism, not a free market. It only hurts small companies, who don't have a legal department or the earnings necessary to negotiate the labyrinth of laws. I get that you want to curb the excessive pursuit of profit, but you're only hurting people, in the end, because those very conglomerates that you're targeting are those that you're helping.
Take the TPP for example...free trade is good for everyone, the but the TPP is anything but. It's a 5000 page document, and you don't know what it says. Neither do I. The only people who can begin to study it, understand it, and profit by it are the people who control gigantic multinationals.
>>675533652
Who gives a fuck? Maybe stop relying on these businesses and support local ones. Oh wait that would be too hard. Stop relying on the goverment so much to take away their wealth, because it won't be taken away. They control the goverment with their wealth.
>>675530385
oh look everyone it's the new excuse for the same old shit tier president.
>>675533257
>thinks I'm a socialist
Top kek
>>675527156
>but the media is
>>675530385
but the economy still is in the shitter. do you tell him what a good president before or after you suck his dick?
>>675533948
We agree on the TPP, we agree on crony capitalism, we don't agree on minimum wage. Do you think raising minimum wage is enough to kill corporations?
>>675529022
remember kids Obama was the one who bailed out the banks and let the bastards go.
but here in america we teach our child that Barry the Magnificent obverted the second great depression.
>>675533362
Because China is doing it it somehow makes it okay for us to do it?
The only thing this proves is that we need to put the pressure on China to be good stewards of the earth.
Since you are a little slow let me put it this way for you, everything you have ultimately comes from the environment. our prosperity is completely dependent on the well being of the environment. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
>>675523144
american "liberals" are almost a 100% opposite of libertarians.
People understand their own business...
...housing bubble...
...car loan bubble...
...college tuition bubble...
...credit card bubble...
Yeah, the average person is great at their own business and what is best for them.
Do you think people work together to create roads? Or electricity? Clean water? Police and hospitals?
>>675534003
You are talking to me about how national socialism is so great, what the fuck do you expect.
Also
>kekekekekek.
Fuck off.
>>675523144
This is liberalism
>>675523144
You're the same kind of idiot as those feminists who cite the dictionary's definition of feminism whenever it suits them.
Go eat a bag of dicks
>>675529022
Government enforces sub-prime mortgages to shitty brown people with horrible credit.
Shitty brown people default on mortgages (big surprise)
Liberal lefties blame the banks, and wonders why the government bails them out.
I love /b/
>>675523933
this guy gets it
>>675533362
>why do you think every things made in china?
Because American corporations try to milk every penny out of production regardless of quality or morality. They also use sweatshops and damn near slave labor in China, it's not just complete disregard of the environment.
>>675528796
>pic related, conservatives
>>675534812
They control the internet, but who controls the TV?In political views I mean.
>>675534997
This guy gets it.
>>675524004
ummm, it's not paranoia, its fact that 6 companies own 90% of american media. Murdoch is also openly right wing
>>675533965
>who gives a fuck
Exactly, you are fine with them fucking you in the ass.
Being a consumer is the label I am least proud of, I do the best I can to produce what I can and what I can't produce I try to consume in the most ethical way possible. Don't assume you know anything about me that I didn't tell you. Unfortunately consumerism is a fact of life when living in modern society, I'm not saying that it doesn't have its good aspects, but it's many of the good things in life are what's killing us.
>>675534776
How brown skin people can get ahead in world? work?
>>675535429
How are they fucking me in the ass? I don't see it. Please enlighten me.
>>675534504
The banks had a knife to our throats, so Barry paid them. But Barry didn't put the knife in their fucking hands.
Oh, you mean economic and regulatory policies have long term effects? Lol Bush wuz so long ago stawp blaming him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do wonder how many people who use that word have read On Liberty.
>>675523144
Classical liberalism and classical conservativism have nothing to do with today's liberals and conservatives. If anything, they are more akin to today's libertarianism. Today's liberals don't care about minding their own business, in fact they frequently involve themselves in others' business despite never being invited. Similarly, today's conservatives do the same thing. However, where today's liberal will focus on getting more involved (specifically getting government more involved) with your finances, today's conservatives get involved in other people's business over social policy (attempting to legislate birth control, abortion, gay marriage, etc.).
>>675533765
Read that comment aloud to yourself. Now think of your own counter-argument. I'm not bothering, and I suspect you've already thought of one you're hoping I don't use.
>>675535606
>this product is worth fifty cents. do you want it?
>yes
>twenty bucks
newsflash: the meaning of words change over time. What was once called liberalism is now called classical liberalism. What liberalism now means is something completely different.
>>675530782
not very. but who am I?
>>675530824
oh yes protect me for those who make the products that make my life easier.
Because look at Sweden. Is this what you really want nigger?
>>675523144
In the US the terms "liberal" and "conservatve" have become attached to "left" and "right", when those terms in their original meanings don't necessarily mean that.
The American "left" is liberal on many things and not on other things. The American right is not really "conservative" on a lot of things either. That term traditionally means essentially a belief in maintaining the status quo and an aversion to big changes to it. But the American right at this point wants to essentially upend the American status quo and repeal the 20th century. That isn't conservative, it's reactionary. The American right is also not really about "small government". It likes that idea sometimes, like when it comes to regulating business, but hates it in other places. For example, "build a wall" is a call for bigger government, not less. And a call to criminalize abortion is basically a call to socialize pregnancy, which is again a call for bigger government, for government to control a major area of life that has traditionally been controlled by individuals.
It's also true that most Americans don't know what these terms mean, but there's little civics or political education. Most Americans don't know what all kinds of other political terms (like "socialism") mean either. Also, that "liberal society" has no negatives is like, just your opinion man.
>>675531643
try respecting your elders.
>>675535606
They have convinced you that's what bad for them is also bad for you, that you need them to live. They've tricked you that living off their scraps is the best way for you to live.
>>675523144
Why do you hate poor people, OP?
>>675523144
This is classical liberalism, more akin to modern libertarianism. Modern liberalism is a problem due to the fact that people think they can run your life better than you can. Don't believe me? This is the sole end of universal healthcare, to make everyone's health a public issue and to punish through taxation those that don't adhere.
I'm going to sleep. Remember to fight the taxes, the faggots who don't allow you to think for yourself (SJWs, Feminists), communists who think being equal but poor is great. Goodnight.
>>675524990
this like what the fuck op you stupid?
>>675535741
Or The Legal Subjection of Men
>>675532849
are you seriously 15? you know more that 170 economist do.
don't get me wrong all raising the min. wage will do is cut out wal-marts competition from smaller retailers.
many years ago small towns had 5 or more family run eatery's, shops and hardware stores. you don't see that now.
high insurance and soon high wages will put all but the big corporations out of the game.
>>675536666
Nobody knows who you are or will remember anything you said tonight. Get over yourself.
Sleep tight, faggot
Liberals of yesterday used to be the conservatives of today, but liberals of today have metastasized into the brownshirts of 1938
>>675534452
I don't know how you can disagree with me on minimum wage when I haven't expressed an opinion on it, but ok. I think that raising minimum wages is again an example of something that kills small business to the advantage of huge corporations. They are the ones that have the financial wherewithal and political clout to automate some jobs, create exceptions within the law, and take the loss of a location here and there. It's the small businesses that end up bearing the brunt of any regulation, whether that means layoffs or closing down completely. Small business can't absorb losses or price rises the same way that McDonald's can, especially when McDonald's was involved in the drafting of the law.
Many people don't understand that increased regulation (which they are in favor of because of the abuses of international conglomerates) turns out, in many cases, to be just another advantage that those same conglomerates can take advantage of to absorb or drive out of business the competition.
The more power over business we give to the government, the more business will seek to control government.
>>675532952
Fun fact: A $15 minimum wage imposed on McDonald's would result in a 4.3% price increase.
That's less then 25 cents for a meal. And McDonald's corporate wouldn't lose a penny.
They're against it out of principle, they like their employees to be dirt poor and desperate.
http://fortune.com/2015/07/30/15-per-hour-fast-food-prices/
>>675532371
you're talking 60+ years ago. its the least they could do for the war they drug them into.
oh sorry you forgot to mention that.
>>675537001
Dude, that was Satan.
>>675537248
sure kid.
>>675533865
>Larken Rose
Literally a nobody.
>>675523144
Americans hate socialism too. Mostly because of those dumb faggots who think they are socialist for hating police, smoking weed, supporting fags and other degenerates and being non-religious.
>>675533865
I'd happy tp see you caged for any number of reasons. I don't really care.
>>675537385
Ohhh shit. In that case I apologize.
Hail
>>675535845
Well said. Which is why we need a strong third party. Things these days ought to be "libertarianism vs authoritarianism".
>>675537248
Fuck your facts. Soshulizm!!! Derp!
>>675536433
Obamacare covers mental illness.
seriously look into it.
>>675537463
Nice come back bro
>>675536468
nice simple asinine view point. which democrat website did you pull that off of?
Bernie or Hillary?
>>675537649
Typical modern regressive leftist.
>>675536483
Liberals think everyone should be free. But can true freedom be a thing with economical burden of health issues? Then again there are many types of liberalism.
>>675533865
Yeah they are job creators.
But I'm pretty sure the government creates more jobs than any one business.
Just because they create jobs doesn't mean they should have free reign to do whatever they want.
libertarians want the govt out of our shit and a true free market. end of story
>>675523144
They know what it is, but that quote isn't always true.
>>675523144
Because the authoritarian progressive left commandeered the word and perverted it to mean something it isn't.
>>675537849
fucking niggers.
there's a lot more to it than that.
but take the simple retarded approach that is the hallmark of your generation.
was that better? fucking nigger.
>>675523144
"libertarian" is an entirerly different thing tho. you dont know anything about any of this to be a quality bait.
>>675523144
Actually all that definition does is explain why the people need to petition government to pass laws so people can care about their own business.
>>675537622
But socialism is cancer.
>>675523144
Because of neo-liberals who've completely deviated from the path laid out by people like J.S. Mill. They now think liberal = leftist values, when classic liberalism is very much conservative.
>>675538001
I agree. why does every liberal wet dream end with the people who oppose them being slaughtered by the government?
>>675529997
I know, murder should be legal. Why do you care what other people do?
>>675530743
>damage our collective prosperity.
I know, gay marriage should be illegal.
WHO KNEW POLITICS WERE SIMPLE BOYZ THOSE SHORT SENTENCES TOTALLY DESTROYED ANYONE ARGUING AGAINST YOUR OPINIONS
>>675537622
>i haz a opinion
cool story bro
Tell us how we should aspire more to be like Sweden.
>>675523144
>>675538072
you have a lot to learn.
>>675538606
>more like sweden?
Americans could stand to loose a bunch of pounds, actually
>>675537964
I saw it on your mom's laptop while she blew me.
>>675523144
>>675523144
>>675537750
My parents are paying for my insurance until I'm 25.
1200 dollars for the 3 of us.
100 dollars for my adderall and I currently have 9000 dollars in unpaid hospital co pay as I have histoplasmosis and treatment is expensive.
The worst is my parents aren't helped out by Obama care as business owners that make much more on paper than they actually keep. An employee crashed into a motorcycle and completely wrecked two peoples lives, now my parents are facing bankruptcy because the umbrella insurance only covered up to 2 million dollars.
This is happening all over the country, we need a single payer system.
>>675523144
Modern liberalism and classical liberalism are two different beasts.
>>675538923
$1200 a month
>>675538606
I like how your only argument is a fear propoganda picture.No substance or facts to back up your smartass comment. Typical republifuck.
>>675539005
this
what social programs even existed during Mill's time?
It's a cheap fucking shot
>>675538763
hey dumbass if the hospital fucks you over and kills you guess what? they cant get fucked over because "its a medicine of practice" just wait youll find out how often the big guy buddies up with uncle sam to fuck you over
>>675537649
Your right wing is showing.
>>675532371
The National Socialists created WWII, and got Germany cucked
>>675538072
>But I'm pretty sure the government creates more jobs than any one business
That is not job creation in terms of creating wealth out of the sweat of your labor, the imagination of your mind, or the skill of your hands. That is "creating" a job out of nothing, envisioning a role in the bureaucracy that needs to be "done", even when nothing is actually done.
Apart from the military, the postal service, etc... most government jobs are just imagined....it's cool that people get jobs, but they're not really needed or even wanted.
>>675538001
>>675538490
No gubmant. No rules. Cage whoever you want.
>>675538362
Libertarianism is liberalism taken and extended to it's logical conclusion, fuckwit.
>>675526534
Keys your fucking face
>>675539122
Cucked again by rapefugees. Try harder faggot.
>>675539444
Don't bother. That anon doesn't even know true liberalism.
>>675539210
Your lack of grammer makes your statement incomprehensible. I am just going to assume whatever you implied was asinine.
>>675538072
>But I'm pretty sure the government creates more jobs than any one business.
No shit, but that's because of the obvious taxpayer which is financially forced by the government. And saying that is like me saying that the government enforces things better than the citizen. It doesn't mean we shouldn't give the citizen the right to enforce his/her own protection.
>Just because they create jobs doesn't mean they should have free reign to do whatever they want.
Implying I think otherwise. Yes, I understand regulation, but I disagree with is how much should be implemented and how heavily they should be taxed.
>>675539444
no, establishment hired internet shill. libertarianism is closer to true conservatism than any of the past few republican presidents could have dreamed to have been
>>675539122
>>675539122
What are you asking for exactly? A reason why that anon doesn't necessarily support Sweden's immigration policy?
>>675539543
Tell me again how the right to bear arms had stopped all mass casualty shootings.
>>675538659
Teach me then faggot, you can't just go around telling people they are wrong and not giving them an explanation
>>675539912
>implying business doesn't move away because the labor is cheaper in other countries
>blames taxes
faggot
>>675540146
In the spirit of Libtardism.... i can teach you if you let your sister eat my dick.
>> good deal brah
>>675537600
>Literally a nobody.
You sure destroyed that argument.
>>675539820
just wait bud. a small town lifestyle helps people learn this early. t5he government can and will always fuck you over. people get butchered in a hospitable and nothing happens because "medicine of practice" after paying thousands of dollars. thnks uncle sam
>>675539314
They play a role in keeping society functioning, don't act like they don't provide a service.
>>675540403
>Libtardism
duurrr
>>675540004
You're both right, in a way. Classical liberalism is the womb of libertarianism. Modern conservatism has much in common with it, although the definition of both has changed radically with the advent of neo-cons and the new left.
>>675539408
>No rules
That's anarchism, not libertarianism you fuckwit.
Even libertarianism think you can't infringe on other peoples rights, you moron.
>>675538072
The jobs government creates are extremely inefficient and unproductive. Go move to North Korea you dirty, disgusting whore.
>>675540004
Liberalism is more conservative, idiot.
>>675539651
Half the people in this thread are pure fucking idiots it seems.
Shame, since it's such an interesting subject with so many great things to discuss. I'm off to bed before I give myself a heartattack.
>>675530824
The Nazis were in cahoots with large industrial concerns controlled by friends of the party, such as Hugo Boss.
>>675539651
>>675523144
>I'm a classical liberal!
Yeah, that's what I'd expect from someone who hasn't learned anything in 250 years.
>>675540510
Honestly.... are you high right now?
>>675540403
I don't have a sister but I'll eat your dick if you let me.
You don't know why I am wrong you're just a stumped fag with nothing else to say.
>>675540047
>Tell me again how the LACK OF the right to bear arms had stopped all mass casualty shootings.
Turnabout is fair play.
>>675540567
>>675540567
Pic related
>>675540722
Said the guy protecting the 2nd amendment
>>675538439
It is because people are cancer and they want to take advantage of everything. My country was socialist 25 years ago. It was the only socialist country that stood between USA and USSR. You should've been a fucking retard to not be able to get a job. Our industry was developed. People got apartments from the state. It was possible to work at one job for the rest of your life. The thing that destroyed it were people who, when they saw they won't lose their job no matter how sloppy they work, stopped giving a fuck about their jobs, people who stole materials and tools from factories, people who wanted to be rich but were too lazy to do something. You could've been rich in that country, but you couldn't be poor as you can today.
>>675540047
Isn't it odd how nobody ever has a firearm when these attacks occur except the attacker?
>>675540982
Which guy protecting the second amendment?
>>675540778
So you admit you are wrong?
Good. We agree.
>>675540522
Who, exactly? Don't talk to me about local government employees like police, fire department, and EMTs. I'm talking about federal employees, most of which could disappear and we wouldn't notice. We don't need 90 percent of those "jobs", except as jobs, not to keep the country going.
>>675540567
>Even libertarianism think you can't infringe on other peoples rights, you moron.
which is why it's basically anarchy
any law you pass could be interpreted as "infringing on people's rights"
>>675540393
Labor is cheaper because of the lack of minimum wage laws in other countries or less restrictive ones. You clearly have no idea how business operate. Stop pretending you do.
>faggot
STRIKING COUNTERPOINT
>>675540789
Australia.
United Kingdom
Sweden
And the list goes on.
>>675540553
we areso fucked as a country eh? i wish it would return to a colonial lifestyle. id go back to black powder or even bow and arrow and kiss obamas ass if it meant the whole world had to do the same and give up modern weapons and magically destroy them all. but that can never happen. how come people cant see the need for the poeple of the usa to ownn a modern semiauto rifle?
>>675540567
Sleep well.
>>675541158
>>675541220
No, actually you just ignored the entire point and made yourself look stupid by trying to look smart
congratulations
There's a way of making any american into a libertarian.
Send him to Venezuela and make him live there for two months.
>>675541077
>> nobody had a firearm
Citation required.
>>675541166
The EPA
The FDA
Corps of engineers
NPS
I could go onThe
>>675541183
>>675541508
Just accuse the person of missing the point instead of explaining it and throw out an insult. That'll win a debate!
>>675541277
Except those places didn't have many mass shootings to begin with.
>>675541332
I think you may have responded to the wrong post.
>>675541586
Yeah, most of those can go. We wouldn't notice, other than more freedom.
Idiot confirmed
>>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
>>
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
And the list goes on.
>> schooled.
>>675530743
>our collective prosperity.
>thinks people on gov't benefits have collect prosperity
>>675541748
>damage controlling
companies go offshore because of cheap labor and shitty environmental standards, not because they're being "taxed"
stop being a faggot
>>675542080
>>675541183
Oh, right, let's not prevent those poor oppressed murderers from killing others...
>>675535178
Those companies are owned by Jews, who fund the left. The only time they do anything "right wing" is for Israel.
The media is statist and very far left.
>>675541914
>>>675540553
nah i didnt man
>>675542689
>cheap labor and shitty environmental standards
Which is an example of less government and less restrictions, including less taxes to no taxes. It's clear I'm talking to a pseudo-intellectual pretending he understand business.
>>675542878
b-but without pesky gubbamint the people would create those institutions in the prybutt sector
>>675543038
>murderers
I'll bet if they killed a nigger you'd find a way to get them off
Let me fix it for you.
>what is being a retard
>being a retard is being a liberal
>>675542878
lol who the fuck is making this propaganda? jeb bush and marco rubio ? like wtf not even close to the truth
>>675542338
I never even brought up gun control, but if you want to start this conversation, that's cool. Mass shootings are an incredibly negligible cause of death in the states. Violent crime has been decreasing for 30 years. Most shootings are random acts of violence, suicides, domestic disputes, etc, and there is no reason to believe that the majority of those incidents would not happen just because of a "gun ban". There are well over 300 million firearms in the US...what would you like us to do? Sponsor a buyback, as in Oz? Spend a billion dollars to take legal firearms from conscientious citizens, while the freaks, criminals, and terrorists keep theirs? Make owning a gun a crime, and double our already outrageous prison population?
>>675543453
actually it's what happens without strong legislation and law enforcement to back it up
something lolbertarians loathe to suffer
>>675542080
Kek'd
Tell me you don't actually believe this and if you do explain.
The EPA has saved more American lives in the last 40 years than the department of defense
The FDA seriously? You think it's a good idea for food and drugs to go unregulated?
The corp of engineers controls our infrastructure.
If you honestly think that the national parks would be better of in private ownership, you need to be water boarded.
>>675542878
Governmentalists. Working hard to make sure that everyone knows they are never safe without big brother's thumb up their ass.
>>675543784
>If you honestly think that the national parks would be better of in private ownership, you need to be water boarded.
THIS
40 KEKS
>>675524572
ron paul wasnt shut down, he simply wasnt talked about because he didnt fucking do anything.
hows that push to audit the fed going lately? still as dead as the day he brought it up? cool.
>>675543116
>Which is an example of less government and less restrictions
Wow, it does sound great! Hey, maybe you should leave your lily-white gated community and become a textile worker in Bangladesh!
>>675543852
>Governmentalists
did you make that up all by your big bad self lolby?
>>675542545
Thinks this is about government business and not about an unchecked "free" market encouraging on individuals freedoms and lowering the overall quality of life.
>>675543152
Fuck the poor. They should all just be indentured servants, right?
>>675543082
I think you must have. I was speaking about the classical definitions of liberalism and conservatism. You were talking about guns.
>>675543116
I understand that you like to disregard real reasons why businesses go overseas. Keep thinking it's liberals taxing them too much lol
>>675544087
>indentured
no
they should have to pay for their own false teeth after they get chopped out
>>675543295
>A) Murder is murder, so no.
>B) If they're killing a nigger, they're probably also a nigger, so no.
Take your pick.
>>675544066
Forgot my >
I'm so sorry
>>675544317
actually no, and lolbertarians also oppose hate crimes legislation
>>675543575
Most research shows the most probable outcome of owning a weapon is that you are more likely to get shot. Especially if you open carry.
American left-wing started using the name "liberal" but they usually mean the exact opposite of what the rest of the world means. American "liberal" means big government all up in your shit telling you what to do and not to do and jailing anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
Refuse to bake a gay cake? Jail.
Conservative speaker? Run him off the stage.
Don't agree with someone? Create death threats disguised as "comedy".
>>675523144
Because it's hard to troll people by acting reasonable.
>>675544066
>Government business
*benefits
I'm just going to an hero before I fail again
>>675544579
>being this buttmad
>making shit up
kek
>>675544215
Fuck the poor!!
>>675544865
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I
>>675523144
because US liberals arent liberal. They totollitarian in nature and try to regulate everything and everyone
>>675543784
>The EPA has saved more American lives in the last 40 years than the department of defense
They've also ended many lives. See DDT for an example. So safe you could eat it, and malaria was almost eradicated, when they banned it and forced developing countries to do the same under the threat of receiving no further foreign aid
>The FDA seriously? You think it's a good idea for food and drugs to go unregulated?
I think that the market does a pretty good job of regulating them. No one wants to poison their customers. The age of social media has provided us with even more accountability.
>The corp of engineers controls our infrastructure.
Only because the government has forced that to be the case.
>If you honestly think that the national parks would be better of in private ownership, you need to be water boarded.
No, I would rather that the states be in charge of those. And I would like for the Bureau of Land Management to be eliminated. Let the people who live in an area decide what they want to do with their land.
>>675543538
Liberalize deez nuts
.
.
>>675543969
Yeah, do you like it?
>>675545068
>They totollitarian
lololololtarian
>>675545089
>No, I would rather that the states be in charge of those. And I would like for the Bureau of Land Management to be eliminated.
Teabagging faggot
>>675544102
>real reasons why businesses go overseas
Please, enlighten us.
>>675545215
yeah I was thinking of printing it out in 50 point and taking a shit on it
>>675543908
I'd rather stay where I am as a person who made better choices in life and qualify for better job opportunities. Unlike 1st world people in poverty who breed further people in poverty generation after generation of socio-economics and impede on my rights as a taxpayer. But you know what? I'm kinda happy to pay those taxes if it means these poor people completely depend on the system of government programs they have never to climb higher beyond that, I just might have competition if they did that.
>>675544516
Um, because you are more likely to shoot yourself than someone that doesn't have a gun? Wow, imagine that.
>>675545484
>not reading the thread
businesses leave the US because they make money in other countries where the labor is cheaper than the US and the regulations are shit
>>675545089
>DDT
>so safe you could eat it
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Yeah man fuck bald eagles, ospreys, brown pelicans and properly functioning ecosystems.
You best be trolling me you dumb fucking nigger.
Now to get mad at the rest of your post
>>675545089
Thinking greedy people care about their customers.
>> keeps trying to find ways to not meet current basic regulations
>>675523144
Check out this guy not understanding the difference between liberalism and an American liberal. Liberals favor bigger and further reaching government. Conservatives favor little and more restricted government.
This has to be bate
>>675536483
How's providing healthcare "running your life?" It influences literally nothing about your life except for the fact that your medical choices can be made by you and your doctor, instead of by insurance industry executives.
>>675545089
also
the EPA has only regulated the use of a compound after a successful privately funded civil suit
same goes for all but the first regulations of theFDA
>>675545562
>I was born in the United States with opportunities
>because I worked hard and deserved it
>>675545903
>Conservatives favor little and more restricted government.
unless it involves gay marriage, abortion or drug testing people on welfare
>>675539543
Listen to my ideas or the monsters will get you!!
>>675545711
No you idiot. Scenario:
>> gunman runs into mall.
>> sees 1000 scared people willing to comply
>> Rambo appears with his 6-shooter
Who gets shot?
>>675545436
>Teabagging faggot
Nah, just someone that doesn't believe in DC fags controlling remote tracts of land that they know nothing about and don't have the time to pay attention to. I don't live anywhere near the Southwest, but I'll support their right to have more a say over their land than people who live in a city.
All I can say is OP is either a troll or a fucking moron.
Liberalism is ruining America.
>>675544579
>American left-wing started using the name "liberal"
It was the right wing that started using "liberal" as an insult against anyone who disagrees with them, the same way current Republicans use the word "socialism." Of course, it was used almost exclusively against other right-wingers, namely Democrats.
>>675543748
who said libertarians were against protecting the social rights of the people
>>675545089
I'm raging so hard right now
I would actually fight you if we were in person, I'm not trying to be an Internet tough guy here either, I'm legitimately that butt mad.
go suck cliven Bundy's cock and get shot by an FBI agent.
>>675545554
I'd like to see that. I guess you know how I feel about your labels for those of us who enjoy freedom, then.
>>675546531
Actually we need the feds to control land because the private sector ruins it by overgrazing.
Maybe if your dumb redneck buddies picked up a book and learned the value of sustainability things might be different, but it's not
fml you american's have a weird definition of 'liberal'. It doesn't mean 'left-wing' you jokers.
>>675523933
>being this retarded
>>675546623
You can talk as good a game as you want, but without strong law enforcement to back it up, you're just talking shit
and that's what lolbertarians do: talk shit and let corporations be the ruling class
>>675545745
In an earlier post, you said that increased regulation (in this country as opposed to others) had nothing to do with the movement of companies to other countries....now you say it does?
>>675546710
No actually you "enjoy" letting whoever has the most gold make the rules instead of actual democracy deciding policy
>>675546640
Rages about Liberty
Does nothing to obtain liberty
>> bootlicker confirmed
>>675545765
Do your research. It was a scare, nothing more.
>>675546531
That land is common property of the citizens of the untited states paid for with our tax dollars, no DC fag owns it we all do. The fact that you are fine with some faggot millionaire rancher shitting on the land you own pisses me off. It is set aside to be protected from private interest for a reason.
>>675547023
I never said anything different than what I'm saying now.
Anons are making the mistaken impression that taxing corporations drives business overseas, and I'm pointing out the real reasons why.
Deal with it.
>>675545865
>Thinking greedy people care about their customers.
I know this is hard for you to grasp, but if you want repeat customers, you don't poison them. You provide them with a quality product. That's common sense and basic business.
>>675547133
fuck you it was a "scare" and you can thank the environmental movement for forcing the US government to adopt standards banning DDT
>>675546194
>I was born in the United States with opportunities
You clearly have no idea who I am or the opportunities I was given. Keep making assumptions, it kinda entertaining.
>because I worked hard and deserved it
Everyone who works thinks they work hard, but deserve is subjective. Some people work more efficiently and are therefore better than others. Which is why we live in a system of promotions, financially and through responsibilities. Even government jobs know this. This "everyone is equal" is just a fantasy in the minds of retarded leftists.
>>675547133
Yeah I've done my research.
Do you research somewhere that isn't a conservative blog you goddamn bitch
>>675546379
>>> gunman runs into mall.
>>> sees 1000 scared people willing to comply
Except he doesn't, because they're not. You can't hold a gun on a thousand people, and if you're in the states, 50 of those people are armed.
>>675543748
who said libertarians were against basic social rights of the people? the people dont need the fucking government to organize a union for them good fuck. thats why everythings so fucked up. we let lazy fuck uncle sam take care of it. and he just keeps passing the buck to the next generation
>>675547305
The *real* reason jobs are going overseas is an uncaged free market.
People are demanding ever lower prices from their goods, while insisting on higher returns from investment in business.
The only option for business is to use low cost labour.
The only solution is for big government to regulate trade and labour, while consumers need to understand that some things come at a price.
>>675546379
>Rambo appears with his 6-shooter
>his 6-shooter
U wot m8
>>675547496
>This "everyone is equal" is just a fantasy in the minds of retarded leftists.
everyone is equal
it's corporatism that makes people play such an absurd game of musical chairs
>>675546640
>go suck cliven Bundy's cock and get shot by an FBI agent.
So your argument about how i should feel differently is based on a threat of force? I should turn my back on my inclination toward freedom because otherwise you and the government will kill me? Way to persuade, anon.
>>675547358
Hence the absence of food poisoning and shitty products in the world.
Oh wait.
>>675547018
why cant the people enforce themselves withou government meddling in it like wtf man were not against it wer against governmnet fuckery. law enforcementgs turned into a money generator
>>675547782
>we let lazy fuck uncle sam take care of it
because lazy Uncle You doesn't come through:
see: civil rights, labor rights, women's rights
>>675546898
I'm not convinced that the feds do any better in land management. I understand the tragedy of the commons better than most, but I guess I just don't have that ingrained trust in government that some of you do.
>>675547671
And yet, mass shootings persist despite your argument.
>>675526960
This is one of those arguments people make when they can only fathom the gov. being the solution to your problems.
Why would a company want the over-head of trying to be an all-powerful gov? Further, if they tried anything to destroy rights, the people would immediately put them down. Private companies cannot just take from us without out allowing them to do so.
Not the case with the gov. Try to stop paying your taxes.
>>675530205
if you understand libertarianism that pic wouldn't make sense... unless youre an anarchist
>>675547851
>The only option for business is to use low cost labour.
bullshit
without resorting to it, billion dollar corporations would still get richer every year
they do it because they can--no one's stopping them and you know it
>>675547851
I've seen numerous reports stating that good produced here could be sold for maybe 3-4% more than countries in southeast asia. The reason jobs go oversees are so ceos can maximize their profit margins(i.e. their salaries). It's greed. plain and simple.
>>675548044
It would be nice if people did, but they don't
what people do without a government is draw lines, discriminate and create a slave class
>>675548136
see how many trillion dollar fucking debt
see fucked social security system
>>675526946
We also call them faggots.
>>675548267
>>675547018
>that's what lolbertarians do: talk shit and let corporations be the ruling class
It's actually the pro-government cucks that allow the corps to have as much power as they do. You encourage increased laws and regulations that THEY write, and then use the abuses of aforementioned laws as a justification for even MORE.
>>675548211
I just don't have the trust a bunch of gun nuts like Bundy are the best land stewards, either. They would have totally fucked up the Malheur if they'd been left to their own shit.
I'd rather have a proven system that keeps the land in public hands.
>>675548136
But none of those benefit the important people... white guys with money and guns
>>675547127
No faggot.
This isn't about liberty this is about preserving what I love most in this world.
I'm active in the environmentalists movement and and pursing a degree in earth systems science so I can use my life to protect the environment
I've backpacked a total of over 1600 miles and have 3 confirmed thru hikes, most of that took place either the national parks.
If you think liberalism to its end you come to libertarian socialism where the deed counts and not empty words. Go team Kropotkin!
>>675548443
>debt
cut corporate subsidies, eliminate loopholes for the rich and that debt would be trimmed down right away
>social security
might not even be necessary if the private sector paid living wages
>>675548394
Which will just get even worse in Libertarian Utopia
>>675548564
>It's actually the pro-government cucks that allow the corps to have as much power as they do.
bullshit
without government corporations would totally run rampant
>>675548881
I did. That's stupid.
>>675535695
>The banks had a knife to our throats
They held a knife to your throat and MADE you enter into a contract with them for them to let you borrow more money than you can every pay back? Which put their ENTIRE business model at risk??
SUUUUURRRRREEEE they did big boy.
>>675547982
I don't want to persuade you to do anything that doesn't involve suicide.
>>675548828
This should become copypasta..
>> 3 confirmed thru hikes
>> 300 confirmed kills
Still a bootlicker.
>>675547305
>Anons are making the mistaken impression that taxing corporations drives business overseas, and I'm pointing out the real reasons why
Exactly. You're pointing out the reasons that increased taxes and regulations drive businesses overseas. I didn't mean to disagree.
>>675547400
Exactly.
>>675523144
The same reason that racism is no longer believing a race to be superior to another race. It's what "liberals" do, adopt a word that has a specific definition then give it a brand new definition no one but them is aware of so they can call someone ignorant for not knowing it. They're unironically that illogical, for further evidence see anti-fascists who don't have a problem telling people what they should or should not like. You couldn't make it up.
>>675547973
So I take it you don't understand the concept of trophies, awards, qualifications like education, certifications, leadership skills, communication abilities, or performance. A world where everyone has the same IQ, same cognitive abilities, same imagination, etc. Listen, you can have the last response because I have more important things to attend, we'll both pretend that I'm still sitting here reading this.
>>675535914
>this product is worth fifty cents. do you want it?
>yes
>twenty bucks
If people don't want the product more than they want to keep the $20. Business either cuts the price to match demand, or they go out of business.
>>675549391
>increased taxes and regulations drive businesses overseas
they don't, asshole
businesses go overseas because they can, and faggots like you won't stop them
>>675549067
No, no! It would be a glorious utopia of free-market capitalism, where the invisible hand would ensure that even children could find jobs in heavy industry!
>pic related, it's the world we could have if government stays out of the way
>>675549389
That part was a parody of the navy seals copypasta
>>675540567
>implying your vote counts
>>675549575
I take it you think being a slave is better than recognizing common ground in people. Which, again, is why we need government to pass laws that speak for the people, not corporations you serve.
>>675547599
>Do you research somewhere that isn't a conservative blog you goddamn bitch
Political inclinations have nothing to do with the question of whether DDT was more or less toxic than the modern alternatives....millions of lives have been lost to malaria because of the DDT ban...
>>675549636
See: healthcare
Oh wait....
>>675549736
some of those kids worked naked too
hot
>>675547994
>Hence the absence of food poisoning and shitty products in the world.
Exactly. They're extremely rare.
>>675549970
Oh, now I get why those Republican politicians are so keen on eliminating child labor laws.
>>675549857
Funny how votes count if you're electing a twit like Bush or Trump.
If you're a Democrat, stay home because liberal cuck. Or something.
