Is there a single logical argument to be made for being a Bernie Sanders supporter or is it all emotional fallacies designed to manipulate feelings rather than actual facts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzhzXSM1Wy4
>>672726915
There are plenty that you obviously aren't open to hearing
>>672726915
>emotional fallacies designed to manipulate feelings
Holy fuck OP you answered yourself.
>>672726915
I told your mom I wouldn't let you go full retard OP, but it seems like it already happened
>>672726915
already a Bernie Sanders thread
>>672701005
>>672727306
>>672727451
>Not arguments
>>672726915
>>672727566
kek
>>672726915
not fooling anyone
>insert bait pic here
>>672727777
quads confirm
>>672727777
checked
>>672726915
tldw
>>672726915
you do know that many countries in europe work like that and everything is fine, right?
>>672728229
GO FUCKING MOVE THERE
>>672728120
I was a berniefag until he said this. What a load of jackshit and his supporters are not even talking about it. fucking racist cocksucker
>>672728120
>>672728321
i'm already here, bitch, that's why i know what i'm talking about.
>>672728120
also
>>672728383
sure you were buddy...
>>672728653
Doesn't mean I automatically support Trump, you insignificant retard
>>672726915
Okay well to respond to your picture, the taxes that he wants to pay for college are from taxing wall Street stock speculators and hedge fund managers.
The increased taxes for his medical care system balance out because you'll no longer be laying health insurance premiums.
A president that is trying to eliminate as many oligarchial facets of the government as possible wouldn't be a terrible thing.
But first and foremost of why, out of the Democrats at least, I'd support Bernie is that during his entire political career, he has been about the same things. He doesn't flip flop, he hasn't had scandals, and he hasn't done anything to cast doubt on his trustworthiness. I would rather support someone who I know where they stand even if they can't get anything done than a sketchy bitch who would find ways to get the wrong things done.
>>672728120
Cant believe ppl gave this guy 40 mil.
Are you ashamed yet?
>>672726915
I'm not a Berniefag, and I doubt any of us will even have the opportunity to vote for the man in general election, but here are my thoughts:
Better him than Hillary. He has been more consistent and honest in his career, and less of a shill for huge banks and party activists. Most of his promises as regards 'free' college and healthcare will never be passed by Congress, so they don't matter. He is relatively non-interventionist and would be more cautious with deployment of our military (this to me, is important). Hillary is just as much a warmonger, if not more so, than Rubio.
>>672728797
>implying you're not voting for Trump
i'm just throwing quotes around
>>672728653
I'd date his daughter, I can't be president?
>weren't my daughter
So we've established that this quote is a completely retarded way to attack Trump, yes?
>>672729017
Sanders white-guilt tripping 20 million white people who are considered poor by statistics and he has the audacity to say what he said.
>>672729392
He wants to fuck his daughter.
>>672729406
What was the context of that quote again?
>>672728824
First line; He says he'll raise the middle classes taxes by "at least 8%". Considering the middle class already pays an absolutely insane 31.5% on average, what makes you think this is even remotely acceptable?
His entire career? You mean how he spent 15 years as a homeless bum before getting his first job, how he spent his honey moon in Moscow (because he's a Communist), how he supported Fidel Castro and thought he was an amazing leader of Cuba? Or how he said that women love to get raped?
You really want this fucking loser to be your president?
>>672727576
>>672729923
I'd prefer him to Hillary, yes.
>>672728120
It was one poorly worded statement. I knew when he said this it would blow up as if it means bernie thinks white people cant be poor. He obviously doesn't think that, he grew up as a poor white kid
>>672729864
>>672728419
>this samefag thinks that making fun of the worst Republican president of all time somehow makes the far worse Obama and the much further worse Sanders acceptable choices.
At the end of the day all you're doing is saying "Look, the worst you guys could offer is still way better than our current liberal president and our possible choices for future liberal presidents."
>>672729923
>Hes going to raise taxes on the middle class
No, he's not
>>672730283
So why did he say what he said without clearing it up? He shouldn't even be legitimizing BLM since they are a bunch of fucking racist shitheads
>>672730283
More like
>it was one statement worded exactly how he wanted it to be so he could pander to nigger voters.
>>672730081
So you'd take tyrannical oppression over freedom, then?
>>672730452
>False information proves points
>>672726915
yes i understand where the word free comes from
the difference is, i don't have, nor will i ever have, the funds to go to college on my own. However, i'll be happy to pay the taxes for others to once i go through and get a well paying job as a result
>>672730502
BLM is not racist, how the fuck is protesting police violence against black people racist?
>>672730627
Not false information retard, do at least a tiny amount of research if your going to try to make factual claims
bernies tax increases and min wage increases would generate 13 trillion dollars in revenue for the US within 10 years. this means people are more likely to go out spending money which means more hours and pay for everyone. its nothing but win. the only people that would even be really effected are people making 90k+ which is nobody on 4chin cuz youre all a bunch of broke ass bums
anyone still spewing shit about how hes going to rob everyone is just uneducated and uninformed. this election has shown me just how many people havnt taken a basic economics class because they seem to have 0 grasp on how the tax brackets work. im seeing poor ass fuckers that barely make 40k a year complaining hes going to rob them of their money and give it to the lazy. aint nobody give a fuck about them broke ass blue collar faggots anyways, so they need to stfu and stop spouting misinformed garbage
>>672730283
He grew up as an unemployed commie bum who was too lazy to get a job and now demands money from rich people.
>>672730634
So, you think that you'll get a good job when everyone in your position gets to go to school in the same programs as you did, at the same time?
You realize that an ALREADY SATURATED job market will become worse, multiple times over, and that you won't be able to do anything with it, and then everyone pays more taxes, including you, so that you and the other retards could get "free", worthless education?
#RichardStallmanForPresident
>>672730844
No intelligent person would want a gigantic minimum wage increase. It's moronic. Who would hire Jamal the braindead nigger for fucking 15 dollars an hour?
>>672730877
>too lazy
he was poor as fuck and had no opportunities. I really like supporting someone who knows that struggle and succeeded despite that
>>672730514
>So you'd take tyrannical oppression over freedom, then?
If you think Hillary = freedom, I want some of what you're smoking.
Fallacies? You mean everything that the republicans have built their support on?
>>672730904
I seriously doubt he makes enough to pay more taxes, Bernie will only raise your taxes if you make more than 250k a year
>>672726915
Bern is the only candidate by default. Idk why there are threads against him, it's not like there's another candidate you can vote for.
Shillarly is a shill and is laughable that she remains in the ballot despite her public upbringings.
Trump has never been, and will never be, a serious candidate, and at the same time his strange frontrunning completely overshadowed the rest of the republican party meaning he's the only republican candidate, and he isn't a real candidate.
So that just leaves the Bern. it's not like i particularly like him, he's just the only one left
>>672730675
You just have to say that ALL lives matter, and they will lose their shit. Do you really think police only fuck over black people? There are a massive amount of youtube videos where white people are being fucked over just as much.
>>672726915
That's why all of europe, Canada and most other western countries offer free healthcare, free higher education and excellent social security programs, because the entire concept is a load of horse shit. right?
right?
>>672730514
mfw
>tyrannical oppression
>>672730996
He didn't have a steady career until he was 40 years old, and even then it's just taking government money.
He was poor because he didn't work. He's the perfect example of a lazy shit who wants other people to pay for everything.
>>672730904
sorry i'm not incompetent like that
your argument might be true for many but it certainly doesn't pertain to me. Free college doesn't make college any easier. Your dumb corner nigger will still be a dumb corner nigger. It's not going to turn into highschool where everyone who is anyone will go
>>672731151
>Trump has never been, and will never be, a serious candidate
>He's winning
>Bern is the only candidate by default
>He's losing
Try again, Jew.
>>672730993
only an idiot would want the minimum wage to stay 3x lower than the living wage. that means no money is being poured back into the economy which means companies have to downsize, which means less jobs and hours for everyone. not to mention the obvious rise in crime it causes when people are desperate for money
>>672731256
Black people are significantly more likely to get killed by police. Teens specifically, black teens are 21 times more likely to get killed than white teens. Obviously all lives matter, but the reason for the movement is that it happens disproportionately often to black people
>>672730284
You think that America during Bush was better than America during Obama? In what regards?
>>672731438
Trump will not win this election. If even knows he's not a serious candidate. If it comes close he'll throw it, trust me. He doesn't want to be president
>>672726915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lix-ajZ4Sk
>Is there a single logical argument to be made for being a Bernie Sanders
he's not Trump
>>672731036
I think every option other than both Democratic options = freedom.
>>672731536
>black teens are 21 times more likely to become irrate and aggressive towards police in a standard setting
FTFY
>>672731571
>If even
he even*
>>672731290
He was poor because he was from a poor family and had no opportunities, that's the reason he has the platform he has to today of free public education
>>672730027
i just read that in his voice
>>672731571
>Says the guy who is wrong
The American people have decided that you are wrong, and that oppression isn't a good idea. Obama was a test run into far left extremism, Bernie would only propel us further down that horrifying poisoned well.
>>672731766
I'm not speculating. Trump running is a fucking meme dude
>>672731536
There is a fucking police problem. A militarized police force is what is happening in the U.S. That's a big fucking issue. BLM is disrupting way too much shit to be even considered serious. They are not even able to argue without shouting in your face.
Sanders might get their vote, but he will still lose because he didn't show his backbone when he had to.
>>672731576
You hate Trump for illogical, nonsensical reasons.
Here, have a video to prove any rebuttal you'd have wrong!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvUXXA2XJE
>>672731943
Again, the American people have decided that you are incorrect. Not really able to debate against that.
>>672731504
Comparing minimum wage to "living wage" would only be valid if there weren't a massive welfare state. Money isn't created by raising minimum wage. There is no possible way that that can create money or value. Encouraging businesses is what creates money, and making labour extremely artificially expensive does not support that.
>>672731680
He was poor because he didn't want to work. Try again.
>>672732120
Nobody has decided anything. Your ballot numbers mean jack shit until the election is over. I'm telling you right now he won't win. He'll stick around till the end and if it really looks like he's going to win, he'll pull out completely.
>>672731504
>only an idiot would want the minimum wage to be raised to a living wage. that means companies have to downsize, which means less jobs and hours for everyone. not to mention the obvious rise in crime it causes when people are desperate for money
FTFY
>>672726915
Just like conservative arguments filled with ad hominem attacks (most common, because they can't form coherent counter arguments, so they call out imaginary flaws in others... look at the Republican debates lately... it's nothing but this), confirmation biases, bandwagon, and numerous other fallacies that would take up half a page (or a page or more, if examples given).
If you are willing to call out one side, then take the lumps that go with the opposing side. Granted, Sanders' ideas are a bit out there, but he has a point regarding corporate control of our government and politicians, at least. His economic policy ideas? That's too extreme.
>>672731536
>it happens disproportionately often to black people
Crime is committed disproportionately by black people.
>>672730627
Let me guess no matter what evidence you were shown you would just say it's fake or from an invalid source unless it reinforces your stance.
>>672731571
You really are delusional. That's what people were saying 8 months ago, did you not pay attention to anything since then?
Bernie has lost, by the way. And he may not live until the next election!
>>672726915
>A proper functioning government is socialist voodoo magic!
>>672732380
I could say the same about you.
>>672726915
In response to pic related:
What are roads?
>>672732266
If i can't live in a cheap home and support at least 1 family member with all food, water, heating, and etc on my 40hr/w $9/hr paycheck, the system is broken.
protip: you can't even do all of those things by yourself let alone supporting a family member
>>672730993
Considering adjusting for inflation and growth over the last 30 years minimum wage should be around $21-22 an hour, we've let it stagnate to the point where its harming the economy.
All growth went at the top when Reagan reopened tax laws to try and create incentives for companies to spend and hire more, they took off running once that wall came down, so really what Bernie is doing is trying to put us at the same growth we had in the 50's where a minimum wage job could get you a house a family, basically he wants traditional American values.
>>672732449
Oh, he's a Communist.
Hey look everyone, this anon is a fucking retarded Communist.
>>672732304
>Just like conservative arguments filled with ad hominem attacks (most common, because they can't form coherent counter arguments, so they call out imaginary flaws in others
>Trump is a racist! Trump has small hands! #MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain!
>>672731623
Not sure I even agree with that considering how authoritarian the Repubs have become, but you specifically mentioned Her Thighness as supposedly superior to Sanders in that regard.
>>672732197
this point is retarded, most unemployed people don't have jobs because they can't get them, not because they are lazy. Bernie knows that struggle and still made something of himself because he is NOT lazy
>>672732553
>bernie is a communist
stop the straw man you are proving that you dont have a real argument
>>672727417
Sanders has always been an outsider that's had to run as an independent because the Democrats won't support him.
They won't let him get the nomination. Hillary is the one doing the manipulating.
>>672732547
Inflation and growth do not determine what minimum wage should be. That is not the purpose of minimum wage.
And again, no one will hire a stupid unskilled nigger for $22/hr. No one.
Read through an economics textbook.
>>672732423
well debating about it with me will be pretty stale because it's fact in my mind, not opinion. Trump is a ruseman and that's all he's doing in the election right now.
Bernie might have lost but Hillary Cruz Carson and Rubio are nonexistent so idk who to vote for now
>>672732687
The video in the OP literally counters any possible argument you could ever make I don't really need to go further than that.
>>672732607
If you don't have a career until you are 40 years old, you are lazy. He is lazy.
>>672730761
Actually bernie has admitted taxes for the middle class will raise, but then he compared it to paying for insurance. Since 3rd party insurance will be gone you wont be paying them, you will be paying taxes. So in his mind it cancels out
>The average American is so much afraid of Communism that he thinks a working social system like free college or health care is sozialism
Ahahahahahah.
This is why everyone hates you Murica. You are fucking stupid.
This is why you are the next Babylon/Rome.
>>672732799
still a straw man retard, make a real argument if your going to talk
>>672726915
But that's a LIE, you shitbrained soulless shill fuck
It's fucking public knowledge that he plans to pay for his college plan through a tax on WALL STREET TRADING.
If you don't know shit about anything, do some fucking research and quit inflicting your ignorance on people, you goddamned travesty.
>>672729923
How can you really believe that he's going to raise taxes on the middle class without providing them some other type of saving, such as not having to pay for medical insurance, if he is trying to protect the middle class and lessen the wage gap? Like I was saying, there would be increased taxes on everyone, but the savings from your having to pay medical insurance premiums every month helps even that out. Also, the middle class doesn't get taxed that much at the moment.
And it seems to me that you don't understand the difference between professional life and career. I don't care if he was homeless for he was a senator, I'm talking about during his time as senator he has been upstanding and open about what he stands for.
>>672732506
>the system is broken
No argument there, I just don't believe more government is the solution.
Protip: And yes, I can and do. Not the supporting part though, I pull out.
>>672732900
>The average baby boomer and /pol/ite
FTFY
Communism isn't a fucking race like people make it out to be. It's an economic/government structure that can be just as, if not more, healthy as ideal capitalism.
>>672732900
>Bad arguments
>>672727669
Saved
>>672732983
>Source: berniesanders.com
LOL, are you even trying?
>>672732127
>Encouraging businesses is what creates money
tell me again how business makes money from people with no money because they don't make enough money?
>>672726915
Bernie's plan (you can read it, its a bill in the senate) will make public universities tuition free and pay for it via a tax on wall street speculation, which is estimated to bring in over 100 billion dollars. Free college only costs about 70 billion dollars.
The tax on speculation is a half a percent.
No one gets shafted, smart people get to go to school, what's the fucking problem here?
>>672732581
Yep, just doing what the other side is doing. But that very piece of "evidence" you just pointed out is half wrong. Yes, Trump IS racist, and so is a majority of Republican candidates, by evidence of their policies alone.
The hand thing? That was for lulz. Can't use that. Republicans constantly call out whatever small flaw a person have, then magnify it to make it seem "bad" when the actions they've taken, (recently, as in the past half century) historically, have been far worse. The Benghazi thing? I hated how it happened, but what about Operation Iraqi Freedom? THAT was INTENTIONAL and most around the world agree that was beyond stupid to do.
>>672732038
you can say all that but it's all in the results.
>>672732843
Taxes on the middle class will only raise on the middle class if he succeeds in getting universal health care, that's separate from his basic tax plan. Let me elaborate on his plan for universal health care:
He would raise taxes on everyone by 2.2% to pay for universal health care, which for most people would save them money. I make 80K a year, and I would save money if I paid 2.2% more in taxes and didn't have to pay insurance premiums any more. I've done the research and I would pay less under sanders
>>672733137
Too bad you can never have true communism
>>672726915
I'd send kids to school for free just so imbeciles, like OP, could figure out what socialism actually is.
>>672733173
Do you not trust Bernie website for what his tax plan is? Are you fucking serious?
>>672733288
>free
You keep using that word, but it's obvious its meaning is lost on you.
>>672726915
his free college plan would not involve increased taxes, it would use tax money that already exists and is being spent on useless military interventions.
>>672733137
I just assume that are your two pennies
>>672733152
what?
>>672733488
Obviously the meaning is lost to you, free means tuition-free retard, obviously the money come from taxes
>>672733381
But that isnt the point is it? Hey said no taxes will increase for the middle class, but then well if this thing im campaigning for gets passed taxes will have to be raised. He is telling half truths, which are also half lies
>>672733310
>Yep, just doing what the other side is doing
So both sides do it, but only one side does it?
Wow, you're a smart one. Nothing about Trump is racist. Absolutely nothing. Give one example, if you can. But first note: illegal immigrants is not a race. Muslims is not a race. Mexican is not a race.
Also Trump was against the invasion of Iraq.
>>672732266
>>672732127
1 sided thinking at its worst. youre only looking at 1 piece of a 2 part puzzle. business's cant grow if noone is giving them money. they dont just grow because someone encouraged them to grow. people have to have money to give to them in the first place. more money circulating = more money being spent = more money given to the business's = more room to grow.
the people in the upper classes dont spend money, its the people in the lower classes that do. when the lower class is crippled by poor wages, they cant put anything back into the economy, which makes the rich go into powersaver mode and horde all their cash into savings or tax loophole investments.
the entire reason this country is going bankrupt is because the poor cant survive anymore due to min wage climbing too slowly and cost of living skyrocketing.
ps.
min wage isnt just about min wage workers. entry level jobs compete with minimum wage prices too, which means even decent jobs are still paying dogshit and causing even the upper lower class and middle class to be unable to put back into the economy
>>672729923
Um, dude, you might want to check your numbers on tax rates. 31.5% is not a bracket, 28% and 33% are. In order to be taxed 28% of your income, as an individual you have to make between $90,000 $189,000. In order to be taxed 33%, you have to make more than $190,000 as an individual. And in the grand scheme of things, when in the nineties and another. Of time the tax rates for the middle class were actually over 35%, 28 or 33% is not that bad. Although, I wouldn't consider those people middle class. The average American income is only about $51,000.
>>672733646
He's absolutely said taxes will be raised on the middle class, he said this during a *debate* no less, his argument is your taxes are higher, but you're not paying for tuition or healthcare costs, so you come out ahead.
>>672733646
Not really, saying he is going to raise taxes is disingenuous since it implies people will lose money when in fact they will have more to spend
Depending on how much you earn, you pay more or less taxes. Poor people can have free college. That is the difference. And this system works very well in France.
>>672733173
>my source for Bernie's plan is MUCH more reliable than Sanders' own website
Are you fucking retarded? You're just so conditioned to disregard any source that you haven't already surrendered yourself to, is that it?
>>672726915
Amerifats are too retarded to have a functioning capitalistic society.
>>672733819
And it took him how long to let this truth bomb out?
>>672733474
Look at all the additional taxes he would add, such as Payroll tax. He's just hiding the tax increase by calling it a different tax than "income tax"
>actual facts
how about the dozens of other countries that are successfully doing it
TL;DR:
>America has the chamce to become a wealthy country like Sweden, Switzerland and such countries but fights against it because it's fucking retarded
Oh boy. I gonna fucking enjoy your Downcome America
>>672732840
>career
I've had 2 now thanks to outsourcing.
>>672729923
inb4 you dont even make 90k and none of this even pertains to you at all but youre just a whiny little bitch that wants to complain about shit because everyone else around them is
Case and point. No one has options viable yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI4HagtgTPQ
>>672733852
But that isnt the point, he kept it hidden because he knew people wouldnt rally behind the guy who wanted to raise taxes, he is pandering and i thought he was better than that. But what do i know im white, and i cant be poor
>>672733819
Only the healthcare will be payed for with a tax increase for your everyday joe. He said he wants to put a transaction tax on wall street to pay for the "free" college.
>>672733646
I don't ever recall Bernie Sanders saying that he would never increase the taxes on the middle class. And if he did, he was probably meaning to talk about there would not be increased costs on the middle class, and an increase in taxes but getting rid of having to pay health insurance premiums does reduce the overall cost of living, even if more money is going to the government
>>672733912
/thread
and i'm even an amerifat and this is truth
>itt: retards who don't understand shit but think they do
>>672734033
Payroll tax isn't paid by employees so it's wrong to say that it will result in the middle class paying more taxes
>>672734053
>Downcome
>>672726915
kek.
If you're a student earning enough to be taxed at the highest tax rate then maybe you *should* be paying for your own fucking education. Stupid cunt.
>>672733744
The top tax bracket needs to be moved up to 50% and capital gains up to at 28%. This should free up some money.
>>672734037
BUT MUH FREEDOM AND CAPITALISM :'((((
You forgot that the average american is as intelligent as a Third-World Human
>>672728419
I'd rather have a president that speak off the cuff and fucks up, than a baboon who can only read what people write off a teleprompter.
>>672728229
>everything is fine
What planet of denial do you live on?
>>672733891
>>672733474
Good goys, keep saying taxes won't go up, good good goys.
>>672734210
You have no idea what his thought process would be. Also, im not a fan because i dont want the government to foot my bills, sorry i feel i should have to take care of myself
>>672734159
He doesn't want there to quote where he says "I will raise taxes on the middle class" because people will take it out of context without explaining that all but the very rich will save money by paying more taxes
>>672734053
Sweden isnt doing to good right now bro and switzerland barely has income tax
>>672734053
its because the top 1% and even the upper class dont want the nation to become equal. they want to maintain their power over the poor, so they use brainwashing campaigns to trick poor people into thinking the people that want to help them are evil, and anything that will benefit them is evil. its not even a conspiracy theory at this point, they literally know exactly who some of the people are that are creating these campaigns because theres been news reports and documentarys on them and theyve openly admitted to using their billions to social engineer america the way they want it
>>672734033
Yeah let's look at all the different taxes he would add, and completely forget about who they would actually effect. Most of Bernese taxes will not affect the cost of living for the average American. Most of his taxes are aimed at wealthier individuals who could afford to pay a little more and they would still be perfectly fine, and also big businesses and Stock Exchange speculators.
>>672732373 Because of class. Problem is, the second you mention economic disparity, you get accused of being an ultra-Marxist and this "problem" with "race" will never, ever go away.
>>672726915
Do you or do you not believe that America is controlled by wealthy special interests?
This is the one chance to DO something about all the bullshit you fucking retards bitch about all the time. And instead, you're just scared little bitches trying to find a justification to sit on your ass and not rock the boat.
>>672734499
Yeah i wonder why, i expected more from him. But it is the same pandering for votes
>>672734273
Payroll tax is payed by employees and employers. The rules are different but the employees DO pay.
>>672731623
>every option other than both Democratic options = freedom
Then why do republican states have the highest prison populations the the harshest laws?
>>672734313
That comes close to stealing
>>672734437
Vox fucking hates Sanders and this graphic is intentionally misleading. The payroll tax is paid by employers, not employees, so the middle class doesn't pay it. This graphic acts like you will pay the payroll tax, which is a fucking lie
And yes, as I said earlier, you will pay 2.2% more if universal health care is passed, but YOU WONT HAVE TO PAY FOR PRIVATE HEALTH CARE ANY MORE
>>672734707
Why do democratic cities have more crime? I guess in the anarchist sense that is freedom
>>672734540
see >>672734437
Almost every idea of his would affect cost of living. If you raise minimum wage, the cost of goods will go up enormously as well. And why wouldnt they? People can pay more now,and costs are more now, so they will charge more.
>>672734445
Are you really that fucking stupid?
>>672732038
>illogical, nonsensical
Describes everything coming out of The Donald's mouth.
>>672726915
http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/freshman-year/billions-taxpayer-dollars-go-students-who-dont-graduate-analysis-finds-n412431
>>672734856
The employers would prolly just lower salaries.....
>>67273485
>The payroll tax is paid by employers
Simply untrue. I bet if your employer automatically deducted your income tax, that you'd think that you aren't paying it, he is.
>>672734430
you would rather have a white president that's not good at all than a black president that actually turns things around?
>>672734856
>if i use CAPS MY POINT IS CORRECT
That isnt the point m8. You still get what you pay for, and if i want something other than sub par care i will still need 3rd party insurance so i will be paying more
>>672734525
This.
You brainwashed flaming faggots
>>672732127
>Money isn't created by raising minimum wage. There is no possible way that that can create money or value.
Seattle obviously disagrees. The results speak for themselves.
>>672734932
Apparently. Sorry i dont think the government should coddle me
>>672734437
Looks fine to me.
>>672734210
this election has shown me people have no idea what middle class is. 150k+ a year is not middle class rofl. 90k+ isnt even middle class. thats upper middle class/upper class.
all this bitching that hes going to rape the middle class is just flat out wrong misinformed garbage being spewed by uneducated people. his fucking tax bracket proposal is freely available online for anyone to read, but apparently 90% of the people in this thread/country are too stupid/lazy to read it/understand it
>>672732763
>Inflation and growth do not determine what minimum wage should be.
Let me guess, minimum wage should be what ever the peasants are willing to work for because muh free market!
>>672734525
So you think discriminating people for how much money they make creates equality?
>>672733310
First off, it was "Enduring Freedom". And I don't see your point that Clinton's rush to intervene in Libya is in any way made better just because GW Bush was an asshat. If anything, I would think you might recognize that they're both cut from the same warmongering cloth, and we have both of them to thank for the current situation in the Middle East, not to mention the migrant crisis.
>>672735058
NHS works pretty well in the UK and they pay 1/3 what we do
>>672730675
>BLM didn't suggest making black only communities
>BLM didn't ask to keep white people and police away from their communities
>BLM activists released statements saying it's impossible to be racist againt white people
>BLM blaming white people for their problems isn't racist
>>672733912
Nah were smart enough to have one. What were too dumb for is were too dumb to realize that our current system isn't a capitalistic free market.
>>672735036
>a black president that actually turns things around
When we get one, I'll let you know.
>>672735317
Are you from the UK? Because ive talked to some bongs on here and they beg to differ
>>672728419
Meet the man who's behind 9/11
>>672735352
>not a huge depression anymore
lolwut?
>>672735323
>Shitty minority of BLM protestors represents the entire movement
>>672726915
He's paying for the college with a tax on wallstreet speculation and he's paying for the free healthcare by getting rid of the costly insurance premiums. In short, you're a moron.
>>672735216
That would be correct
>>672735434
I've talked to many that say it works great, and britbongs who moved to America and said they prefer the NHS
>>672735473
Well yeah, thats why all trumps supporters are racist
>>672735150
If you're paying taxes toward something you use, you're not being coddled. You're paying for that thing.
Taxes for roads pay for you using them.
Fucking hell, if you're going to bitch about shit, learn what it is first you ignorant slut.
This is why we have fucking morons voting for king dumbshits like Trump. They're too fucking stupid to understand basic civics and government.
>>672728383
>2016
>lying on the internet
Fuck off polfag
>>672735133
Basic theory of economics doesn't just disagree but proves you incorrect. It isn't a theory. Increasing wage cannot possibly create money.
You are beyond economically illiterate.
>>672735598
right it's a fallacy on both sides
>>672735493
How do insurance premiums cost the governments money
>>672735578
Different strokes. But im concerned our single payer will be less European utopia, and more usa VA
*coughs*
170 economists have endorsed Bernies plan to break up the big banks. I am not aware of any economists endorsing any part of Drumpfs meme platform.
>>672726915
It's not *you*, you moron. It's the people who have been mugging you for years who will pay the taxes.
>>672735611
Privatised roads would be good shit
>make you pay for it in taxes
EVERYTHING any government does is paid for with taxes.
>>672735679
Results > theory, colossal fool. Try again, this type without using bogus Vienna School theories that are widely discredited.
>>672735611
>comparing infrastructure to healthcare
>muh roads
>implying the two are even remotely similar
A huge portion of WHY bernie sanders wants free healthcare, is so that employers would no longer have to take the financial hit for paying insurance to employees. This would DRASTICALLY boost the economy.
Plus, anyone against the idea of all the citizens in their country having access to life saving medical attention are just total utter evil shitbags and their opinions are 100% invalid.
>>672735133
This. It's already been tried and proven. People still arguing theories vs actual fact are just being willfully ignorant at this point.
>>672735777
How could economists endorse not breaking up big banks. Thats not really a plan
By death or life, I do not think there is any emotional fallacy.
>>672733381
your deluting yourself into thinking he can actually pass a Healthcare bill in Congress, top kek m8. you have as much ignorant denial as a trump voter
>>672735611
If you don't pay taxes you are not paying for that thing.
If you are even moderately successful, you are paying for your part of that thing and much more.
It's thievery and wealth distribution.
>>672735611
>Taxes for roads pay for you using them
Even if you don't.
>>672735462
So why then, do we need Bernie to fix the economy?
>>672735777
>bernie supporter
>but but trump
>barely anyone talking about trump
Deflection shill confirmed
>>672735611
Youre an idiot, you think just cause you all pay taxes youll be treated fairly.
PROTIP: you wont.
Why bother paying for everyone. check yourself first. If you cant pay for school, how do you think youll be able to pay the same amount in taxes.
Bernie voters literally dreaming.
The only way itll work if poor people pay less and rich people pay more, which isnt fair either since why is it the rich guys fault youre a poorfag.
What most cucks don't realize is that, in an election your not looking for the ultimate candidate that will completely fix your country; that's just simply impossible. Choosing a president isn't about increasing, monetizing, bettering. No, it's about choosing the person that will fuck up the country the least
Running out of popcorn here... Wait, fresh bag! Fresh bag means fresh bait: if you fags could at least get your terminology straight, then that would be pretty awesome. Stop calling socialist hippies liberals as liberalism is not per default left winged. I guess one of you fags changed the wiki again and are calling it classical liberalism now, but no shit given here, it's liberalism when you want less gouverment involvement, free trade and well freedom overall... If anything, liberalism in its truest form comes closer to republicans than democrats. Who ever wonder who will pay for the free education: you will! Omg really me? Oh no! Oh yes you selfish piece of shit, compared to your military expenses its next to nothing and you owe it to the next generation, not becaus you did something wrong. Your parents are fuckups, they are at fault, fix it or become them: a generation that did nothing for the generation to come.
>>672734437
Vox is fucking retarded, you should try reading the bullshit you post, faggot
>I'm treating all payroll taxes as paid by employees, regardless of their ostensible target.
sure, but you're supposed to note manipulations of the data, otherwise it's a misleading graph, ASSHOLE
>2.2% INCOME BASED PREMIUM
>applied to every single tax bracket
HAHAHA no. VOX is straight up retarded.
Get educated, you fucking tool
>>672735936
Like I said, it isn't a theory, it's an economic fact. Wages are not wealth creation. This is a fact. If you disagree, you are incorrect.
There is no debate. Why do you talk if you have no idea what you're talking about?
>>672735998
Yeah, God forbid the workforce is as healthy as the countries infrastructure, you know, since factories run themselves.
>>672736177
because we can't let Obama be the dictator
>>672735679
"Basic theory of economics"=This dipshit doesn't know dick about economics.
Assumption that GDP is entropic=republicans need that free education much worse than they can conceive.
>>672735936
What results are you retarded?
They just raised the min wage in Seattle and a bunch of restaurants had to close/cut hours
>>672735679
except economists have already stated otherwise and its already been proven otherwise recently. so youre just flat out wrong.
>>672736226
>popcorn meme
Reddit go
>>672726915
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
>>672736274
Employees indirectly pay them. If they go up wages will go down
>>672736212
Because you or some other richfag inevitably can be proven to have done something immoral and often not only illegal but flagrantly so at some point in the past to springboard that richfag and his later progeny above the poorfags. To assume all richfags got there legitimately is the worst kind of fallacy, especially as it seems to assume its own truth when the reality is pretty much the opposite; very few richfags got there 100% legit. Very. Very. Very few.
>>672736086
I doubt he could, but that means that he won't be raising taxes on the middle class at all
>>672736298
>yes because factory workers dont have insurance
>>672726915
i just came here to say that image is too wrong to even be wrong :) nice bait 2.5/10 why did I respond fuck me
>>672736274
>Taxes wont go up, I swear!!!!
Why is 2.2% tax "HURHURHUR RETARDED"? You make no sense.
Ah, Jews.
>>672736214
>it's about choosing the person that will fuck up the country the least
Amen.
>>672736119
I don't use the military, or corporate subsidies, or the local fire and police departments, maybe I shouldn't have to pay those taxes.
>>672736379
wrong. a bunch of FAST FOOD chains closed their restaurants out of protest towards the increase. they thought folding their arms and pouting like little kids would get the city to cave, but it failed and now seattles economy is booming. over time it will become more and more healthy
>>672735058
you silly americans that think that private is always better
Here at switzerland national health service is perfect, only dumb people pay for private health hospitals
>>672736008
>be Europe
>free heathcare
>wait 1 year for an appointment
>people literally dying in the waiting line
>>672736571
Why not? Wouldnt you raise taxes before implementing a plan?
>>672736586
see if people would just be capitalists and buy the college education and sell it to the next guy for more money we'd all be rich
>>672736448
You simply do not understand what I'm saying. Try to understand before posting more.
>>672736629
You do use these you dumb shit
>>672736668
i'd rather die in a waiting room than on the street
>>672736325
>Obama fixed the economy
>We need Bernie to fix the economy
>>672736717
No, the taxes would obviously be a part of the bill for universal health care
>>672734434
ever heard of finland or norway? ofc you haven't you uneducated waste of skin
>>672736077
>>672736180
170. One Hundred and Seventy. That's 170 more than Drumpf has for anything. 1. 7. 0. Count em faggots.
>>672735197
Welcome to politics , where reading is apparently the hardest thing in the world , I mean , common , that should be a duty for every citizen to read the program of every candidate , maybe they'll start to vote with their brain instead of their ears
>>672735003
>lower salaries
not below the minimum wage
and what you scared little bootlicking faggots fail to realize is that there is ALSO a labor market. By lowering wages, you make employment less competitive and more temporary, resulting in loss of efficiency and profit.
Being a greedy, selfish, short-sighted prick doesn't actually win in the long run. Maybe they'll avoid any change in costs, but they'll be less competitive than new businesses and will inevitably fail.
>>672736803
nuh uh i'm a libertarian
>>672736730
>Taxes won't go up
Yes they will
>well...they'll actually save you money!
But you said they won't go up
>omg ur retarded
>>672736629
Exactly. You're starting to get it now.
>>672736668
>>672736899
yes taxes will go up, but saying that without pointing out that you will save money is dishonest
>>672736841
>but but drumpf
>drumpf guize
Reddit shill go
>>672736841
Thats because trump cant make a plan about not doing something faggot
>>672736536
1. Yes, you can.
2. Robots? Automation? AI? This logic is no longer 100% valid -- now, one must contend with the idea that what one person works for may create more energy than it cost in net, or, at least, allow for replication of that energy by a non-human actor going forward after a one-time human effort.
3. Only true for already existing things. This is a grey area when speaking of future promises, and you're trying to hide that, shame on you.
4. Again, that's only true on the face of it, and again ignores the time element. Dividing wealth amongst multiple independent actors for them to then drive towards a total wealth higher than the original is called 'being a smart investor', so please, try again with such utter nonsense.
5. There are grains of truth in your argument here, but again, you're making assumptions about the work done by the 'half that's working' vs the half that isn't in terms of how much work was generated and how much was consumed. If the work generated is 100 per person, and the work sucked out by the non-working half comes out to 5 per person, who cares? Welcome to the world of tomorrow, my friend. Technology is very disruptive.
>>672736829
Really? You do understand it wouldnt be a sweeping overhaul bill
>>672726915
Hillary because not another white man
>>672736565
>talking about slavery
>white guilt
No, youre poor. Its not the worlds job to pay for you.
And Im not talking 1%. Im talking about everyone that is doing above average, theyll need to pay more aswell.
What youre doing is literally seperating the wealth even more.
Now instead of corporations, the government will steal the money. The only thing youll make is more thieves.
>>672736815
>obama didn't make the economy better
you know. arguing on the internet is a lot like participating in the special olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded
>>672737153
Yes it would, that's the only way a change that massive could happen
>>672735915
Typical ignorant fucking "privatize everything" fucking moron who spouts off bullshit they've been sold without any fucking knowledge.
Things like road infrastructure is a losing proposition for a private company. There's little profit. Even when a business takes over existing roadways that already were built by public funds, the outcome is shaky at best because again, there's no fucking money in roads.
That's one of the reasons governments and taxes exist. Taxes can go to things that the private sector won't bother with because theirs either no money in it at all or it's to much of a fucking nightmare to deal with.
Private industry is great, just not for everthing.
And idiots like you that mindlessly parrot "get the gumbment out of evrything1!" make things worse.
>l2civics
>l2government
>kill yourself
>>672736854
Lots of people earn above min wage theyll get fucked because employers are paying more so they will request less workers or want to lower wages
>>672736899
You're either a stingy rich asshole or an uneducated poor tool
>>672736803
No, I don't. I haven't invaded any countries recently. Or used the police or fire department. I also don't use corporate subsidies. By your logic, I shouldn't have to pay those taxes, just like you shouldn't have to pay for a road you don't use.
>>672736815
>>672730452
Bleh, those tax rates still look fucking horrible.
>>672737246
What about e-470 in colorado? Best road ever
>>672736896
Thats not how being a libertarian works if there was no police you would get robbed or some shit they are preventing this you are using them
>>672737245
No. For it to get past congress it will have to be piece meal. It will have to be eased in. And the first bill will be the tax increase so they can gauge how much money is actually coming in
>>672736990
The original bernie-fag point was that taxes won't go up. Which isn't just dishonest, but a flatout lie.
>>672730675
Protesting police violence isn't. Storming a library and shouting 'get up you racist white fucks' is.
Also something with Melissa 'You need to get out' Click and freedom of the press
>>672737209
It's a simple question, if Obama fixed the economy, then why do we need Bernie to fix it now?
>>672731702
when you say shit like that, you're asking for it. Just get back to 9reddit
>>672737246
>he's never been on a beautiful toll road
oh boy
Socialism is a religion for people who worship the power of the state.
The Principles of Socialist Belief.
1. Socialists are better than other people.
2. All people are the same ("same" is spelled "equal").
3. All human behavior is determined entirely by environment.
1 explains why socialists are entitled to lie, cheat, steal and worse when dealing with non socialists or non "true" socialists.
2 gives socialists an excuse to attack anyone who questions their beliefs.
3 explains how all social problems can be solved by throwing money at them.
The more astute amongst you may have noticed that principles 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive. That does not matter, what is important is that everyone should believe what they are told to believe.
The fact that every one of the above principles is a lie is also significant.
>>672737376
>>672736536
I cannot begin to talk about how little you know about economics except to say your list is paraphrased from a 75 yr old baptist preacher with zero economic validity. You are an exceptional moron.
>>672737454
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/american-health-security-act-of-2013?inline=file
Bernies universal health care bill, all in one including funding
>>672736804
I dont think you understand why the healthcare will be poor.
Everyone will have healthcare, sure. But people with money or connections will cut lines all the time.
If youll want speedy healthcare you better have money. But now instead of just paying for it, youll have to pay taxes for healthcare AND private healthcare.
If you get cancer youll literally have to pay more than you do now to survive.
Youll die in the street waiting for that checkup.
>>672737246
If there were only privatized roads there would be alot of money in that sector
>>672737155
Right, because Hillary's priorities are SO different than the old boys' club. When will you realize that it's not what color, sex, or orientation you are that matters, it's what you actually DO or DON'T DO?
>>672737531
you're going to need to point out to me where someone said "obama fixed the economy" because it looks like you're not understanding what others said
>>672737008
>>672737033
170. Name some economists that have endorsed ANY part of Drumpfs plans. I bet you can't name one, much less 170. One Hundred and Seventy. Let that sink in. If he was going to be so good for the economy somebody would have endorsed him and he'd be waving that letter all over the place. 170 for Bernie, 0 for Drumpf.
>>672737340
Magic-math based on incredibly unrealistic healthcare costs
>>672737280
>less workers
cuts productivity, therefore doesn't help profits. You suck at business.
>lower wages
depends on business, but if you have dedicated and qualified employees, this will replace them with incompetent and disgruntled temporary workers.
There are smarter ways to make up the difference in profit, if it's that necessary to the business.
>like cutting out bonuses
>>672737702
I cant roll my eyes hard enough.
Jesus kid, you can have a bill but that doesnt mean shit and i know it, and i really hope you know it
>>672737353
You use fire department and police as prevention you use military to defend your country. Corporate subsidies are retarded
>>672737644
also i hear they eat babies and spit ON THE CROSS
>>672726915
College education = higher wages.
Tell me again why paying taxes is a bad thing?
It would seem like you just want something for nothing.
Like every other entitled millennial.
>>672726915
Bernie Sanders is a fucking charlatan and how people think he is an anti-establishment candidate is beyond me. He has literally been a part of the establishment for 25 years.
He is a war monger. He voted FOR US intervention in Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Liberia, Zaire (Congo), Albania, Sudan, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia. He voted FOR the bombing of Kosovo, a decision that one of his aides resigned over.
The only war he voted AGAINST was Iraq, which was a symbolic vote against Bush and the GOP. As soon as Obama took office, he voted to fund the war in Iraq multiple times. He also supported the sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of children.
He CURRENTLY supports Al-Qaeda operations in Syria and refers to them as "moderate rebels". He SUPPORTS Saudi Arabian bombing of Yemen.
He SUPPORTED the coup in Ukraine and voted to give $1 Billion to support it.
Even if it were true that Trump is a racist xenophobic demagogue (which he is not) I will always vote for the guy that wants to GTFO of other country's affairs and doesn't view the US as the world police force.
>>672737877
Nearly nobody, including Trump, is against less government-dependent banks. It's not an original policy, hardly anyone supports them.
>>672737246
>there's no fucking money in roads
If they were private, there would be. They're called toll roads, and they make money by charging the people who actually USE them to do so. A novel concept these days.
>>672737877
That doesnt make his plan good just less shit. Trump is a meme btw
>>672737877
>drumpf
>drumpf
>drumpf
>drumpf
Not one is even talking about trump but you the reddit john oliver cock sucking faggot.
>>672737984
>>672737246
>things that the private sector won't bother with because theirs either no money in it at all or it's to much of a fucking nightmare to deal with.
Perhaps we don't need those things, then. If we needed them, there would be money in it.
>>672738021
Are you fucking retarded? God this thread is cancerous.
Would you rather have some 22 year old up to their eyeballs in debt that takes 5-10 years to pay off, or have everyone pitch in to try and pay for it? I prefer the latter. Now stop making fucking retarded. Threads and go watch Dora you ignorant son of a bitch
poor jeb ;-;
>>672737658
>lost the Cold War
Republicans are bitter petty children living in their own hyperbolic world while America crumbles around them
>>672736831
Not only. Even countries that aren't "doing so well" by Scandinavian standards are doing better than 'Murica.
>>672735549
if that's what it was there would be no need for minimum wage. we need minimum wage now more than ever as jobs get automated (by people like me) and unemployment continues to go up.
>>672738335
I'd prefer the former. And any attempt to steal my money is a breach of liberty. Pay for your friends' school if you want, but I will not.
>>672738245
>democratic socialism = communism
He may be a genius at chess but he is a retard when it comes to political science
>>672728120
>>672728383
It was part of a larger quote.
>>672726915
OK so it's like you're reaching into a trash can for something to eat. Mind you these are the choices our dumb asses have left ourselves with when leading this country. The best thing you can find? Bernalony sammich. Everything else is garbage.
>>672737913
Less workers is a result of supply and demand when work is offered at a higher price with the same demand.
People will just work for less since they cant easily get other jobs.
The boss wont start paying himself less to pay employees
>>672734856
>The payroll tax is paid by employers, not employees, so the middle class doesn't pay it.
Payroll taxes have been undoubtedly proven to shift burden to employees which leads to unemployment.
It's hilarious how you economically illiterate Sander's supporters think that taxing an entity magically won't effect any individuals down the line
>>672726915
he'll make the older generation contribute equally to the education of the youth, instead of just sitting on their wealth, and expecting the young people to rebuild the economy in the wake of the boomers without any support.
>>672738552
But i thought the soviet union wasnt real communism
>>672737911
>incredibly unrealistic healthcare costs
welcome to America.
It seems completely unreal until it happens to you, and then your entire fucking family is bankrupted by an emergency surgery.
>>672738552
Literally no one said communism you illiterate fuck. He's a published and respected author on political science
>>672738586
>tmw i realize you have no idea what supply and demand means
how is there going to be a demand if the cost of items keeps going up but the living wage doesnt? DOI DUH DOI HURRR DURRRR
Sander's supporters might actually be braindead
>>672738610
I actually do disagree with the payroll tax part since it could hurt small businesses, but acting like it will raise your taxes is wrong
>>672728229
You are right. Everything over there is rainbows and unicorns and everything over here is horrible.
>>672731623
For whom. To do what.
'Cause you're not wrong, you just need to think twice if you believe that you're gonna be in the club whose freedoms are being enhanced.
>>672738671
Not what I was talking about. What I am talking about is that Sanders's plan assumes that he will lower US healthcare costs to the same price as most other countries, immediately after implementing his plan.
>>672737353
Invading countries isn't SUPPOSED to be what the military is for. No argument there. But you do enjoy the freedoms protected by military defense, as we all do. Same with police and fire. Roads are a bit different and more of a luxury, and healthcare/college are even more so.
>>672738525
Minimum wage doesnt fix unemployment in every sector
>>672738705
Implying the soviet union wasn't communist
>>672732983
Do you even understand how wall street trading works and how it can be taxed? If you don't and take Bernie at his word, then you are an even dumber idiot for supporting him.
>>672738335
pay your debt off nigger, I pay my bills so can you
>>672736536
1. no but wouldn't it be nice if we stopped legislating the rich into getting richer? sanders doesn't want to take from the rich and give to the poor, he wants to stop giving so fucking much to the rich.
>>672738705
The SU was communist. Kasparov is trying to compare fucking Switzerland to the SU
>>672738245
>implying the kind of socialism Sanders is suggesting has anything to do with the Soviet Union.
Look, I'm not even American for starters.
I'm Canadian. So I can speak about the benefits of socialist ideas in a capitalist society.
I get free healthcare from my government.
I get free quit-smoking aids as well.
I get access to government grants to pay for my tuition.
And I havn't even started paying taxes yet.
I'd say that you talk as if capitalism is perfect, simply because communism/socialism were not.
But you're so inept at forming your own opinions you have to post the opinions of others.
Talk about dangerous absurdity.
>>672738757
Supply and demand works both ways and it depends on the situation what tactic is better raising or lowering wages but both philosophies are correct
We pay taxes for public high schools, and they are not sufficient to train for modern jobs.
Industry must have workers and to compete we must produce competitive workers. If you don't like government handouts that produce nothing of value, cut the War Department budget including the billions we hand to sand niggers.
Republicans are all NeoCons so you don't hear that from them.
>>672738586
>The boss won't start paying himself less
then his business will not do as well, there is no other productive way to mitigate that cost, simple as that.
Maybe his business will fail, maybe it won't. This is a change and if some businesses can't adapt, they deserve to die.
>>672738936
>672738936
>>672739004
You're also the same commie-loving faggots who spew "there has never been a truly communist state!"
>>672730284
>obama worse than bush
really?
are you sure?
>>672739038
Wait. How is that fair, that you, someone who hasnt paid into the system, should reap the benefits?
>>672739038
Welcome to America. Everyone on both sides is a fucking autistic, baby-raging inbred yokel.
>>672738803
It doesn't matter who directly pays the tax. The consequences are passed on entirely to workers in the form of lower wages and unemployment.
>>672739038
this, capitalism only "works" because it explicitly only needs to work for at least 1 person, whereas communism has to work for 100% of the population
>>672738021
Being conveniently ignored once again it seems.
Forgot to mention he also supported the invasion of Libya, a point that he and Clinton seem to agree on.
>>672739038
I'm also Canadian. Healthcare is shitty, taxes are very high, schools are significantly worse.
GTFO obnoxiously self-important fag
>>672739270
There truly hasn't because it's impossible to realistically have one. Also, I abhore communism, but you're a faggot so why do I bother.
>>672738245
Furthermore,
the entire monetary system is based on perpetual debt.
There will be no less debt with any presidency ever.
A respectable political scientist? Perhaps.
But he knows absolutely fucking nothing about economics.
