Do you believe in evolution?
We have a debate on this in our college tomorrow. And my side is a "No". I need some strong ass points that can roast the other team to ashes and never come back.
>>672015096
Tell them how god planted dinosaur bones in the ground and that's how dinosaurs came to be
>>672015096
Is that your real opinion?
>>672015096
I dont even know why this is a debate topic, unbelievably retatded. I bet this is an American college isnt it?
>>672015561
Yep. The only point I got is that today apes aren't showing any signs of evolving into a human.
>>672015715
I'm assuming that it's just like an English or speaking course or something dealing with rhetoric where it's more about presentation and forming concise arguments than actually supporting this belief.
>>672015941
>The only point I got is that today apes aren't showing any signs of evolving into a human.
We didn't come from apes you idiot. We have a common ancestor.
>>672015096
How can you be sure it doesn't exist? How can you be sure you aren't a suspended brain being fed stimuli from a computer? How can you be sure you exist?
How can you be sure?
>>672015715
Eheh Yup but this is a free topic. Profs gave us the opportunity to choose any topic we like and we had only an hour to choose and we both the teams came up with this topic.
>>672015941
do you really believe this? I'm sure I'm just taking the b8 but if not, why do you believe this at all? That's what your argument has to be. What makes the idea of evolution not being real credible to you?
>>672015096
Argue about how we have yet to see documented cases of a beneficial mutation, and how blood is a 13 step process, and if any of those steps are missed, everything with lesser blood would bleed out. Also, we have yet to see the thousands of transitional species required to prove this, as Darwin himself said would be needed. Those are the only points I've ever heard brought up against it that sound remotely plausible so hope this helps
>>672015096
Lucy crying tears, because her grand grand grand ... grand son doesn't believe in her anymore
>>672015941
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or not because there are some potatoes in the world that actually think like this.
>>672016382
Can you elaborate on this blood point? Not OP but curious what you mean/what is meant by this.
>>672016382
Samefag here, adding that you should NOT make emotionally charged arguments. Don't be a progressive libtard. Be as concise and as factual as possible, and don't resort to ad hominems like Christians do when they try to argue it.
>>672015941
Nice b8.
>>672015096
Ask them if they remember their parents being monkeys.
>>672015189
he was trying to grow dinosaur trees duh.
>>672016551
13 steps for blood to clot properly, I can give you some articles on it if you like, but if each one of these steps had to evolve individually, most creatures having blood would have bled out due to it being an incomplete process
>>672016531
Nice tits moar
>>672015941
I'm getting a lot of use out of this image lately...
>>672015096
Bring up that white people are the only successful race; therefore they are superior and the true creation of God while all other races evolved from animals.
Niggers arent becoming whiter
Never mind blood is a 10 step process but still
Ask them for some observable and testable evidence of Darwinian evolution. That is how science works anyways, observation and testing.
>>672016662
That's assuming that each step did have to evolve individually, though. It's not exactly a ladder system
>>672017051
a 10 step process evolving in one generation is an extremely unlikely occurence though
You can argue that the fossil record doesn't show transition species from dinosaurs into birds. And from sea creatures into mammals. Anyone with a inkling of how fossils are formed will be able to point out that not every species is represented in the fossil record. But depending on who the audience is you may be ok.
>>672017035
Then they'll laughingly cite the very same observable examples Darwin himself utilized. Those finches are a pretty compelling case for natural selection, mate.
>>672015096
Bring up points like this:
>There is no correlation between any of the fossils found in the so called "fossil record."
All species are found throughout all strata.
>Multiple samples taken from one frozen mammoth and tested separately produced different carbon dating results, putting the reliability of the method into question.
>There is strong evidence that ancient human beings were at least familiar with, at most in contact with, dinosaurs. (Obvious depictions of dinosaurs such as long necked herbivores, triceratops; fossil evidence in the form of a dino print and a human foot print side by side in the same piece of fossilized rock.)
Kent Hovind is a good place to start. Check him out on youtube.
>>672015096
> We have a debate on this in our college tomorrow. And my side is a "No". I need some strong ass points that can roast the other team to ashes and never come back.
There aren't any. This isn't a debate, Very real, empirical evidence exists that points to the current model of evolution. Every argument I have ever seen against it has been riddled with fallacies or just factually incorrect.
>>672015941
If you ACTUALLY study our closest relative, the chimpanzee you would know that they share many qualities most would consider "human traits". There have been reported incidents of chimpanzee clans warring each other until the entire opposing clan was destroyed, they hunt with tools (sharpened sticks used to spear bush babies), and another relative of ours, Koko the Gorilla that was taught sign language (theres language learning capability right there) has shown having very human emotions and actions such as sadness and empathy for her caretakers when one of them miscarried a pregnancy. Also thats not how it works, apes today will not evolve into a "human" they share a common ancestor with humans, think of it as a group of people walking down a path, when the path forks the group splits, the members of the group cant turn around and take a different path, when the road forked other apes went down a separate path of evolution than we did.
>>672015096
There is no full evidence to claim that it's a fact
But there's also no concrete evidence to discredit it either.... Evolution is probably the best answer we have right now
And it's a hell of a lot more plausible then religion
Don't need to believe in it for it to be reality
>>672017137
Fair. Blood is hard to study though. Not in its current form, obviously. But it is hard to say how blood might have been a billion years ago? I dunno man, I got ya though you're making the most compelling example against in this thread.
>>672015941
You fucking moron.
Americans education system at work.
>>672016662
I haven't heard of this but i do know that many early sea creatures were very chitinous or had shells, perhaps this was to protect them from bleeding because that would have been a death sentence.
>>672015096
Why evolution is bullshit:
>No observation EVER of a beneficial genetic mutation
>All mutations thus recorded have been neutral or harmful
>Impossible for certain organs to evolve without the presence of certain other organs
etc
Just google this shit mofo. Or watch a doc on youtube
>>672015096
Do your college really have a "is evolution real" debate ?? This is so stupid, why not ask their students is they believe earth is flat and the center of the universe while they're at it.
>>672017379
/thread
>>672017294
Natural selection yes, but the finches are still finches, they didn't change kinds. I'm talking about Darwinians theory of evolution regarding a change of kinds, not adaptations. I'm talking evidence of a fish turning into a lizard, whale into mammal. Then again they're believing the works or Darwin and what he said, not utilizing their own evidence.
>>672015096
Call the opposition a liberal sjw pussy faggot who hates America and likes Sharia.
>>672016922
No but the entire human race is becoming the same colour. We'll all be coffee skinned in a few hundred years.
at the point where you accept that dog breeds are created by continously sorting out factors you dont want to see you already imply that evolution exists, since being able to successfully procreate is already a factor that sorts out genes which are inferior at procreating.
the only real thing you can debate about is the speed of the process and how big the possible changes in a certain time window are - not the fact that evolution exists.
either b8 or a fucking moron
>>672017741
the time frame in which mutations have been recorded is max 100 years, thats nothing on the evolutional scale you fucking inbred.
plus i have immediate counterexamples of your claim: bacteria and viruses have adapted tons of times and got "better" - at least for them.
>>672017337
>There is no correlation between any of the fossils found in the so called "fossil record."
False
>Multiple samples taken from one frozen mammoth and tested separately produced different carbon dating results, putting the reliability of the method into question.
False, plus carbon dating isn't the only method for dating fossils, google uranium dating with respect to lead, uranium dating with respect to thorium content, or potassium dating.
>There is strong evidence that ancient human beings were at least familiar with, at most in contact with, dinosaurs.
False, you could not be more wrong if you tried.
>>672017741
Blue eyes were a genetic mutation which actually makes it easier to see in dusk or climates where the sun is scares.
However they arnt beneficial in sunnier climes.
But they are austhetically pleasing. Not all mutations survived for beneficially reasons. Some survived just because they looked good
Ie- bigger asses in blackes,
>>672015941
Kek, you don't understand evolution. Apes didn't evolve into humans, there was a common ancestor that is now long extinct. No wonder you decided to try and "disprove" evolution, you don't understand it.
>>672017741
Evolution isna concrete fact.
Even within the last 100 years out bodies have evolved to defend against drugs they couldn't handle before. Look it up you autistic faggot
>>672015096
>i need strong points against evolution
>>672018376
This is from Angkor Watt in Cambodia.
This is not fake.
This is a Stegosaurus, carved into the stone by human beings thousands of years ago.
How could they possibly know about Stegosaurus?
One possible conclusion is that Stegosaurus and human beings were alive at the same time.
>>672018940
>what are sun rays
>>672018940
Here's some more shit that's thousands of years old, made by human beings.
See that? That's a fucking Triceratops.
No way it's anything else.
How could people know about Triceratops back then?
And look, they even added dermatological details, like those crisscrosses on the back, and that circle thing near the belly.
How could that have been done without seeing the skin of a Triceratops?
This is proof that humans and at least one species of dinosaur lived at the same time.
>>672016382
beneficial mutation? Like the formation of eyes and how every step is better than previous, like starting from being able to determine whether its day or night, so u can avoid predators, like how if u have a lens u can distinguish shadowws and movement, like the more cells u have the more resolution the image has?
Blood isnt a process.
R u even trying?
>>672015941
Ba- Baiito kun *blushes*
>>672017137
it didnt evolve individually in 1 generation. All of it evolved over time, thats what evolution is - change over time. And Whatever mutated in such way that it idnt work, it died out and didnt pass on the mutation, while everything elsee kept on evolving
While I have to admit that the idea that a big bearded man in the sky coming around and making people from mud is pretty silly, you cannot also admit that the THEORY of evolution doesn't propose some very massive
For one thing, if we also believe that our entire universe is the the result of everything forming after a infinitesimal speck of dust in completely nothingness before anything existed (except, apparently, that one infinitesimal spec of nearly infinite mass), the very idea that any sort of even basic form of living substance to just almost magically "appear" from nowhere, not to even mention why that bang would then form the entire composite of extremely complex LAWS that all scientists agree exist. After all, if absolutely nothing at all existed before the big bang, then why would it suddenly force all these complex laws that can be described using mathematics (and even at that, quantum mechanics and the theory of relativity, which describe their laws perfectly, do not combine together) to simply come into existence? But, that's another rant for another time ... back to evolution.
First, evolution hits its first hurdle at the first part of it. At some point, earth was completely uninhabitable, then over time, very very basic bacterium and flora came to be. Now, the point of evolution is that everything comes from something, something cannot simply come into existence on its own, it doesn't explain why anything showing signs of basic existence would exist, whether on a meteorite or on earth or in the back of the station wagon of some passing space hippies.
[con't]
>>672016849
Why not argue that evolution isnt true cuz u r a flaming faggot? Equally valid
>>672018940
> Here's artwork created by an ancient society with a picture of a dinosaur, therefore humans and dinosaurs must have lived at the same time (despite a wealth of scientific evidence that indicates otherwise).
You realize that the tyrannosaurus rex existed closer to modern humans than the stegosaurus, right?
>>672015941
>not understanding evolution takes millions of years
>literally
>>672017861
whats a "kind"?
Nothing ever stops being what its parents were. U r still a tailless ape, a mammal, a vertebrae, a tissue organism, a cellular organism, an animal.
>>672017964
Lol no
>>672017337
>Kent hovind
>Kent hovind
>>672017964
>>672020072
A word he made up so that he can sound less unreasonable for saying evolution is a lie because he doesn't understand it.
>>672015096
Do you also 'believe' in the sun?
>>672019783
-2
Secondly, again, considering that there's no reason for anything in the universe to work at all or be governed by universal laws, for those simple bacterium to, even though though many many millions and maybe billions of years, to grow into the nearly incomprehensible amount of "Life" we have on this planet (insects, plants, bacterium, everything that meets the requirements for being classified as "a living being") is a hell of a stretch. Sure, it's possible, but it's also mathematically possible to flip a coin 500,000,000 times and every single time it land heads up (quite a very large number appended to a big 10, but still -mathematically- plausible), there's just as much of a chance of flipping that coin 499,999,999 times, landing heads up every time and on the last one, it lands tails up. But the reality is that you'd flip it about 50 times, get bored and go or at least stop at some point when you had to take a leak! But again, that's the difference between mathematics and theory and plain, stupid reality.
Third, and for me, the part that really makes me question evolution, is that it is based upon positive mutation to bring about more advanced and diverse species. The problem with that is one of reality that is observable. Look at anything at all born with a "mutation", such as (but not limited to) Downs Syndrome, Albinism, certain "birth defects", etc. In animals, if the offspring is different, is it almost immediately shunned. Albinism in the wild is rare because most mothers reject them for being different. Then, most "mutations" or genetic changes result in horrifying birth defects. I used to have tons of pictures, but I know being on 4chan you've probably seen plenty of those "thanks for not aborting me!" pics. So then to suggest that any mutations would have resulted in, especially if you imagine it as a very very very very long process, complex organisms
[cont'd]
>>672018940
>>672019323
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl#/media/File:Quetzalcoatl_1.jpg
this is a quetzalcoatl - it proves humans lived with quetzalcoatls
>>672015096
I hate to tell you this, but there are absolutely no strong arguments against evolution. This isn't just atheistic bias here, no one has ever managed to put out an even part way convincing argument against evolution. 100% of the physical evidence strongly demonstrates that evoluturn happens.
>>672015096
Even your question betrays the fact that you have to have a faith based "belief" in macro-evolution, because it's never been observed, and has no evidence for it whatsoever. Your picture is a fiction; that sort of macro-evolution never happened, and it never will.
Darwinists, which is what evolutionists are, believe that the human cell is "simple", and that it is "like a bag of salt".
Daily Reminder that Darwin was no scientist, and only held a degree in Theology.
>>672016061
That's another fiction. There is no such animal. None has ever been found, and every candidate has turned out to be a fraud and a hoax.
>>672016382
Every fossil is transitional by any fair definition of the term. Furthermore, there are also thousands of animals that show characteristics of two entirely separate lines. Look at Tiltaalik for example.
>>672020072
A kind is akin to a genus. Wolves and dogs are of the same kind; horses and zebras and mules and donkeys are of the same kind. It's a much broader term than "species".
>>672019783
>>672020698
>just a theory
>>672015096
Do you have any pets? A dog is ideal as it's large enough to be seen by the audience. Bring it on stage at the start and when it comes to your turn to speak ask if anyone saw it evolve into a monkey?
I noticed the use of the word "kinds," when the speaker said "animals dont change kinds" which is strictly a biblical understanding of different animals. Maybe put down the Bible to study the real world you Jew worshipping cuck.
>>672016662
13 steps now, blood could've clotted differently in the past. Irreducible complexity is a shit argument that has never produced a real refutation of evolutionary theory
Why is this always a mystery?
>>672020773
Yes, when you take "evolution" to mean that "things change".
When you take it to mean "everything came from an amoeba", it completely falls apart.
>>672017605
>complete random chance having created something so complex more plausible than an actual creator
evolution always sounded more fantasy to me than religion ever did
>>672018270
>bacteria and viruses have adapted tons of times and got "better"
but adaptations already exist within dna. nothing new is formed during an adaptation its merely dormant dna becoming highlighted.
evolution =/= adaptation
>>672021178
I never claimed to be right - and I don't deny, even in the beginning, that I am not obviously not a creationist, I'm merely explaining why I don't completely believe in evolution.
>>672020698
-3
A simple glance at such complex, interworking systems such as the nervous system (what we, all higher creaters, actually are, a system of brains), the lung, the vast differences in reproductive systems (for reproductive system change, it would require a male and female BOTH being born with a genetic mutation of their reprodutive system to be compatible), chromosomes, and the symbiotic bacteria that line your digestive track, all simply just works too well together to suggest that this came about by nothing more than "random chance", especially how for most of the history of the existence of this floating rock that we all call our home, this world could barely be described as hospitable.
[con't]
Only possibility that the evolution didn't happen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jkV4BsN6U
>>672021051
What garbage. You should then easily put together a slide of such transitional fossils and end up with a completely different animal.
You can't, because it never happened. Someone lined up different sized skulls from left to right, and got you to think you're the ancestor of some missing link.
It's preposterous.
>>672015096
There is no such thing as "believe in evolution", that's like asking if you believe in gravity or cancer.
>>672016382
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19667012
>>672020698
Because of the sheer amount of possibilities any unique outcome would be extraordinarily improbable you cuck.
Also:
> not understanding what a theory is in a scientific context
You're right, evolution is a theory. Just like germ theory and the theory of gravity.
>>672021156
only "akin"?
>>672015941
I don't get it, why would "apes" be evolving into humans?
>>672021345
"Evolution" doesn't bring anything to the table that "adaptation", "natural selection", "breeding", and "mutations" don't already bring.
It's a spook.
Evolution is a spook.
>>672021499
Yes. They do not share identical meanings.
God is not as autistic as zoologists. He said kind will beget kind, and for all of recorded history, kind has beget kind.
>>672020698
>but still -mathematically- plausible
plausible - (of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.
pretty sure you mean implausible mate
Where are all the half-evolved animals? Is evolution over? Did everyone evolve at the same rate? There should be many more animals still evolving if evolution is true.
>>672021345
>evolution is random chance
how an adaptation exists within dna?
>>672021299
No it doesn't. I don't know what groundbreaking evidence you think you've found that disproves evidence, but it doesn't exist.
>>672021034
>say no evidence of evolution
>other theories have even less evidence
So what do you believe in?
>>672019420
>blood isn't a process
dude, I meant clotting. blood clotting is a 10 step process that would fail without all 10 steps happening
>beneficial mutation like formation of eyes
Alright, this is an interesting arguement, but again, there seems to be no transition, and most animals have eyes, including the most ancient ones
>>672021676
That's the only argument evolutionists have.
"We're here, so it happened"
Which is easily refuted by "God created us here."
>>672015096
it doesnt matter if you believe in it or not. its has happend and is still happening.otherwise we would not be here. same goes for climate change or that smoking causes lung cancer
>>672015941
have you spent any time with apes? did u know they fuck for pleasure and not just to reproduce? that they kill other members of their species like in clan battles and shit? that's some human-like behaviour, i find.
>>672017741
So... what... eyes/photoreceptors weren't a beneficial freak accident? Those big 'ol gelblobs gave their freak-ass recipients an edge on pretty much everything from not sticking their dicks in eyeless fucks, to not eating actual shit, to not sleeping next to high tide.
By the way, most of everything is a co-dependent network of single-cellular organisms, whether it's within a colony, or between two or more colonies (a body or two bodies). Of course it'd be impossible for certain organisms to evolve without the presence of certain other organisms... that's tantamount to saying "ice cubes only melt when there's enough thermal energy to change the physical state of frozen water, but this doesn't mean that thermal energy is required to cause chemical changes".
>>672015189
A test for true believers
>>672021708
Not disproves evidence, contains evidence to where it properly belongs. Micro-evolution. Finches with longer beaks out-surviving finches with shorter beaks during times of drought. That sort of thing.
They're still finches.
>>672021357
u "dont completely believe in evolution", cuz
u r too dumb
but u believe it Mostly, right? Like, u r just a little bit alive, eh? Like your mother was just partially pregnant before u came about, right?
>>672021690
There is no such thing as "half evolved", that's just retarded.
No animals don't evolve at the same rate, alot of external factors contribute.
Yes there should be more animals but the earth has had 5 mass extincions, which means that 5 times 80-90% of all animals have been extinct by natural disasters and such. And we humans have exterminated countless.
>>672021299
But it doesn't say that, it never said that. Ameobas are remarkably complex and are far more advanced than any early life would've been. But the fact is we have clear evidence showing that life went from simple organisms to the life we see today. Look at Precambrian life, there are fossils of creatures that blur the lines between plants and animals. We have that tradition in stone and people still say there are no transitional forms.
>>672019707
again, if any part of the process failed (missing 1 part),everything with that "blood" would die. It's a process, so how did it get there without almost everything evolving it die?
>>672016662
But even if that makes an argument towards and answer/issue related to abiogenesis, it still won't help OP combat the ungodly plethora of evidence in favour of evolution.
I cannot think of a single rational argument where evolution can be argued. I think the only solution you have is a religious/philosophical nitpicking, and hope the other person isn't smart enough to point it out as merely solipsism.
>>672021772
The problem is that there is no evidence of god created us, but plenty of evidence of evolution.
>>672015941
evolution has no direction, nor has it forsight. ofc apes aren't evolving into humans, although I think one of them apparently did. you.....
>>672021420
what is "completely different"?
the transition is already obvious and apparent
>>672021738
There are really only three alternatives to explain the existence of the universe.
The universe is uncaused.
The universe is self-caused.
The universe is caused by another.
For the first to be true, the universe would be eternal, and as it is not in heat death right now, that is simply not possible.
For the second to be true, the universe creating itself at some point, I cannot imagine the massive violation of all known scientific laws that would require, starting with spontaneous generation and ending with abiogenesis.
I'm firmly in the caused by another camp, and as that person made Himself rather well known, I'm with Him. I'm with Jesus, the Creator of the universe.
>>672021846
Darwin said that to believe the human eye evolved was absurd.
Yet he believed it anyway, for the sake of his theory.
>>672021247
>could have clotted differently
please tell me how and this argument will be invalidated. Irreducible complexity seems pretty valid to me, especially since I have yet to see any valid counterarguments besides that really stupid statement you just said
>>672021034
and if you are going to say that those don't count I'll call that moving the goal post.
>>672021690
What do you mean? Evolution isn't a destination, it's a process.
There's no final stage like in Pokemon that we're all eventually trying to get to.
Evolution is simply the process where selection pressures cause those that lack specific advantageous characteristics die out/fail to procreate. This process is repeated over and over and over again over millions of years, until what is left is so drastically different from the original creature, it could no longer procreate with with one if it tried.
There is no aim or final objective, it's simply a process
>>672021910
If you look at the Cambrian explosion, you see fully formed creatures all contained in the same exact layer of sedimentary rock, all over the world.
>>672021299
not everything came form an amoeba holy shit why do people think this
as soon as molecules were complex enough to copy themselves with the possibility of error there were thousands if not millions of different "organisms"
>>672021863
Holy hell, you're retarded. You look at a small enough time frame and say "oh this finch hasn't evolved into a human, so evolution must be a lie." Also, you do realize that the term "finch" is arbitrary and made up by humans (specifically laymen), so this whole "every kind begets its own kind" bullshit doesn't fly. There is no such thing as a "kind." If you ever actually studied basic taxonomy in into level biology you would know that.
>>672021420
Not what I said, but you're still wrong. Nobody has ever said these lines are directly related, or that evolution is a straight path.
>>672015096
transitional fossils and mutations proves it as fact so yes
>>672015096
You don't need none because you're stupid
>>672021632
kind has no meaning. Theres no god. "God" is more autistic that zoologists - it made a man without the understanding of good and evil, forbid it to do a certain thing and then was mad that the man didnt understand what he did was wrong
>>672021982
Revealed truth from God is as far above empirical evidence from mankind as up is from down, as west is from east.
>>672022175
Please explain to me what purpose ocular sensory data serves, why the organ even exists on hominids, why it exists on anything that is even mobile, when it first "appeared", and why it hasn't become a vestigial autosomal dominant anomaly.
Not to mention, you mention a dead man who can't quite revise or improve upon any of his works... because he is dead.
We can improve and revise things, however.
>>672021706
evolution and adaptation are two completely different things as i previously stated. adaptation is dormant dna becoming highlighted in order for an organism to adapt to its environment. the changes that take place already existed within said organisms dna. no new dna is created when adaptation takes place. evolution is when new dna is created by random chance.
>>672022054
It's a perceptual hallucination. Your eyes track left to right, and assume the right skulls are more evolved than the left.
They're just different skulls.
>>672015096
The only argument that's slightly descent is the what came first DNA or protein. But it doesn't takemuch to refute.
Evolution as a principle is fact though, there's no arguing with it.
>>672021468
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19667012
am I correct in saying that this is saying that the gene sequence is a timeline, and that 20 gene sequences formed before blood actually occurred?
>>672022061
So, why don't you apply those same laws that rule out options one and two to option three? If there is a creator, what created the creator? Also, go ahead and lay out what laws are broken by abiogenesis?
>>672015096
>>672022383
So, I'll take that as a no. Why are you so sure your religion, and not one of the thousands of other religions humanity has created is correct?
>>672021956
>samefagged to say to NOT be like Christians
>mfw
>>672017741
>No observation EVER of a beneficial genetic mutation
ERROR:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html
Non-native lizards introduced to a new island, whereby they are able to aspeciate within a few years.
Lizards managed to differ so significantly over those few years, they could no longer procreate with lizards from the original environment. They had become a different species.
> Mutations
Who's talking about mutations? This isn't X-men. We are talking about normal variance (height, tone of skin, etc), upon where it is advantageous, that creature lives longer and procreates and passes on it's genes. Weaker variances are expelled from the gene pool.
> Impossible for certain organs to evolve without the presence of certain other organs
I have no idea what that means.
>>672018940
Dude, i'm pretty sure that's a parrot
>>672022197
The Piltdown Man was a hoax. The Nebraska Man was a hoax. Lucy is a hoax. Every single "missing link" is a hoax. They've been busted as being hoaxes.
One of them was based upon a single pig's tooth. Nebraska Man. The subject of the Scopes Monkey Trial was a pig's tooth, with an artist's rendition of a monkey-man built around it.
>>672022061
not sure if trolling or just murica.
>>672021771
it still evolved over time gradually and with all the steps evolving together
not everything fossilizes. Lizards have 3rd eye that only detects light. It looks like a scale on top of their heads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parietal_eye
>>672022269
You think rocks came to life. You're not really in a position to be incredulous about the beliefs of others.
>>672022439
thats not what adaption is, the dna isn't dormant hoping that the organism needs
adaption is an organism changing in response to environmental stimuli
evolution is whether or not that adaption is viable for continued life
>>672021874
Impressive argument there, pal, you really got me good. :^)
I am simply pointing out some of the many gaps and scientific "leaps of faith" the theory of evolution makes as part of its proposal, that's all. Don't cry.
>>672021357
And finally, through our very short existence as human beings and our even shorter time of recorded history, while we have been able to witness minute changes in existing species as, through our advancement, they have had to deal with us, we have not ever seen anything major in terms of extreme body change that resulted in any sort of positive outcome. And those who do end up really tall or really smart or have some sort of really gained trait, there is always a negative with it, such as weakened body, social pariah status (think of those super intelligent Asperger Syndrome people who don't function well in society and are generally loners as it is). The same thing can be witnessed in animals, and again, they often do not do well in the wild
The very idea that we exist in the first place is an absolutely preposterous idea. And the idea that, considering how fierce the "survival of the fittest" is at all levels, for life to have grown to this level, is beyond comparison. So enjoy it. It doesn't matter how we came to this point, but we're here, at a level that our ancestors could never have dreamed of. Take it all in and be happy that, in spite of how stupid this species is and how fragile this whole thing is, that we get to feel existence.
>>672022288
Again, God isn't as autistic as taxonomists.
The finch beak is an example of micro-evolution; adaptation and natural selection.
Bombarding mosquitoes with gamma rays produces mosquitoes that cannot mate with other mosquitoes, but yet, they are still mosquitoes.
For you to believe that mankind and apes share a common ancestor, without any proof of that whatsoever, is kind of laughable.
>>672021772
>disregard fossil record, dna similarities and inactive genes, dog and sheep breeding, whales having hand bones, 5 fingers...
>>672022701
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossils
but what about all these?
>>672022727
>it still evolved over time gradually and with all the steps evolving together
that makes no sense to me
>>672022293
If you believe "evolution" has a path, then "evolution" is your God.
>>672022297
All horse kind. Proving the bible right, yet again.
>>672022183
Google Russell Doolittle and learn. Blood clotting clearly evolved from digestive enzymes, and is therefore not irreducibly complex. There has never been an irreducible complexity argument that has succeeded.
I don't know; do you believe in gravity?
>>672022833
>evolution is whether or not that adaption is viable for continued life
No it isn't and stop saying it because you're going to give ammo to the idiots that don't understand it.
Evolution is at a genetic level. It's not an adaptation, you cannot pass on an adaptation. By your own definition, it's caused by environmental stimuli and cannot be genetic.
>>672015096
It is a fact. There are no strong ass points against it.
>>672015096
Evolution of a functioning eyeball is impossible as it requires not only a shape that would take several useless iterations to develop, but also the simultaneously the development of nerves to transmit the visual stimuli to the brain, which would also have to have developed the ability to process the input. Each piece alone is non-adaptive and useless, but the whole system must be created together, WITH the end result in mind, to arrive at the functioning human eye.
There is micro-evolution, think bodybuilding, but macro-evolution, as in creation of new organisms from slime does not, has not and cannot exist without outside guidance, at the very least.
>>672022301
I love your reasoning.
There is no God, but He did something wrong.
>>672021874
theres no gaps
>>672022980
>>672022410
God gave us eyes to see His glory in the heavens, and His handiwork on earth, and to eventually see Him in heaven.
>>672022804
rocks are made of a made of a handful of different atoms I'm talking about molecules that are >1000000 amu
its like saying eating dirt and taking taxol are the same because bur dur they are both atoms
I know some of you can't afford a higher education but this all out there on the internet
>>672023137
So... evolution still exists?
>>672020666
Satan trips, but does not lie.
>>672022999
Literally no one who understands evolution thinks it has a path. Evolution is the path. It's the path of how and why one species became another.
>>672015096
There aren't any good arguments against evolution. Just go in with a Bible and try to convert everyone to Republicanism.
>>672022439
>evolution is when new dna is created by random chance.
This is a spook.
>>672015941
>>672021917
slowly and discretely
>>672022490
It doesn't take much to refute "something cannot come from nothing"?
kek
>>672022986
The concept of long time periods doesn't compute well in stupid brains.
>>672022255
You're aware that the Cambrian explosion lasted between 20 and 30 million years right? It wasn't literally overnight, and doesn't refute anything. Punctuated equilibrium is a decent explanation for that, and it still supports evolution. Try again.
>>672022061
who made god?
>>672023137
the human reproductive system also requires both halves of the equation to develop the necessary kit and processes simultaneously to function
>>672022542
The Creator revealed Himself as I Am, an eternal spirit being, Who has always existed, and Who will always exist, and to whom all men will give an account for the life He gave them.
>>672023208
If this is your absolute truth, I don't understand why you would bother with evolution.
Hume threw out some cautionary tales, but you have God as a creator.... why are you here again?
>>672023051
Fibrinogen is the main enzyme in this research, so that one is quite valid, but that doesn't seem to explain the other 9 parts of the process
>>672022685
Because Jesus rose from the dead.
>>672021492
>theory of gravity
Go learn the differences between laws and theories please.
>>672023104
YOU CAN PASS ON ADAPTATIONS WTF ITS IN YOUR DNA
The environmental stimuli pushes evolution otherwise how would an unadapted bacteria thrive in geothermal vents have you ever actually taken a college level biology course?
>>672021034
Well you've said it so it must be true.
>>672022175
To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.
Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.
He wrote its hard to believe, but thats what evidence point to, so theres no arguing with facts.
Stay wrong.
>>672015096
>>672023311
My ass, that's the biggest cop out I've heard
>>672022701
Go ahead and cite your Lucy claim, I'll wait. And those other hoaxes, who exposed them? Creationists? Fuck no, real scientists did.
>>672023404
youtube com/watch?v=dqVrIBkhqOo
>>672023477
it already proves u wrong, moving the goalpost doesnt make evolution wrong.
>>672022939
I don't disregard any evidence at all. I just see the evidence through a different prism than you do. The fossil record is a record of the Flood, for instance. Well preserved creatures that lived on the bottom of the sea, instantly covered in sediment and preserved via mineralization. Creatures including jellyfish.
>>672023330
No it doesn't. It didn't come from nothing it came from an earlier process of evolution which became obsolete and the evidence of it lost.
>>672023350
>says it all had to evolve together over time
>doesn't give explanation as to how they came to be together
>claims time had to be involved
>says I'm the stupid one
>mfw
I wait for the day that we can just dismiss stuff like this as a troll
>>672022999
I don't, and never said I did.
>>672015096
Sorry my friend, but as a european - i find this ridiculous. Don´t forget to bring the Holy Bible to your debate tomorrow. So that everyone can see that you are a "believer".
Dear allmighty god, please throw brains or stones down on earth! It doesn´t matter which one you will take. It´s only important that you will hit!
>>672023104
the mutation in the dna that affects phenotype is passed on if its not detrimantal, i.e. the cause of that organisms death before reproduction.
>>672023696
not exactly, that's 1/10th of the process. okay, now where did the other 9 parts come from. Also, Christians, fuck outta here with the "God did it" spiel, I'm trying to actually learn shit
>>672022961
I've been kind of talking about that all along; skulls set up on order to give the perceptual hallucination that the ones in the later stages of the project evolved from the ones in the earlier.
They're just different skulls. You could take Andre the Giant's skull, and the skull of a midget, place them side by side, and argue that mankind has grown much larger over the eons.
>>672023662
>>672023567
>>672023491
>>672023426
>>672023375
>>672023271
>>672023138
>>672023040
>>672022980
How pathetic can you get?
Is mere though of animals enough to make you horny? Because it seems so
lmao
This entire fucking thread.
>>672023137
its already mentioned here and its already proven to be true - the eye evolved gradually.
>>672023477
It doesn't have to, the process already isn't irreducible. Point refuted.
>>672023051
Every single irreducibly complex process succeeds in proving evolution is false.
>>672015096
what fucked up college do you attend that they are having you debate an indefensible position?
>>672023948
Fuck my ass.
>>672023137
Aye, which is why Darwin admitted that believing the human eye "evolved" is absurd.
>>672024058
Thats not the point of debates you stupid fuck. Go educate yourself.
>>672023144
if it exists its an idiot. But fortunately it doesnt. I dont see u stickin to the existence of it, so your argument has been given up on and the "what if he existed" is a victory lap.
>>672023234
You think really small rocks came to life.
I don't see how that makes it less absurd.
>>672024000
not quite, that doesn't explain how it came to function without the 9 other parts, still seems irreducible to me, even if the origins are explained for one part
>>672024021
Name 1.
>>672023208
no.
>>672023243
satan always lies. Bet on it.
>>672015096
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU
Evolution is undoubtedly true.
lmao you might as well debate the existence of the sun
>>672023259
Thank you for the self-refuting statement that evolution does not have a path, but is the path.
See, Jesus identified Himself as the path to life, and here you have evolution in place of Jesus.
Again showing that evolution is your God.
>>672024223
Maybe it wasnt a 13 step process at first but evolved into one for some reason?
>>672023951
again, creationists, fuck outta here, I wanna learn
>>672023263
Origin
Meaning
Purpose
Destiny
Evolution cannot make a pretense to answer any of these fundamental questions of human existence to anyone's satisfaction.
>>672023241
In an adaptive capacity within the already existing constructs
Like immunity to disease utilizing antibodies that have some ability to react to invading microbes
>>672023364
No, it all happened within about 370 days.
Again, you think sedimentary rock layers are the crusts of the earth over time.
I say they're dried mud layers from the Flood, about 4600 years ago.
Same evidence, different worldview.
>>672023918
so moving the goal post it is.
>>672024133
Using cherry picked quotes out of context doesn't just make you look wrong, it also makes it look like you don't believe what you're saying.
>>672023404
God is not a made being; He is an eternal being. He has no Creator, and He has no end. You are going to meet Him one day.
>>672015096
It doesn't matter what your opinion on the subject is. Evolution is a fucking fact.
It's a complete waste of time for the class/professor to even debate over something like this. Hope that degree works out for you
>>672015941
And you're in college? Fucking kek
>>672024133
Read the whole quote, he said nothing of the kind. Stop sucking Carl Baughs wrinkly cock.
>>672024550
literally fuck outta here
>>672023483
go learn the difference between descriptive and prescriptive laws.
>>672023761
The fuck are you even asking? You do realize arguing with people like yourself is pointless and tiring? Same goes for people with audiophile nervosa and conspiracy theorists: Any information countering your prepossession is immediately tossed, no matter how factual it might be.
So just continue living the ignorant life, just never think you'll be convincing someone with half a working brain.
>>672023456
To tell men in the darkness that light exists.
To tell dead men that they can be resurrected into life.
>>672015096
Come down to southwest Atlanta. You will see plenty of evidence of evolution. You may even find the missing link selling heroin on front of a family dollar.
>>672022512
Pretty much. Clotting is just one of many processes that has evolved over time with more levels of control being added.
>>672015096
dear 4chan poster,
evolution is a fact. it's not up for debate. you're objectively wrong and I'm objectively right.
kind regards,
another 4chan poster.
>>672015096
yes, and o douse the telegram /b/ chat
https://telegram.me/joinchat/CibwSwbfXSXFgVSbjZ45ig
come and have a visit whenever u want and yes, we do have time to talk about jesus
>>672023579
He said it is absurd, and he was correct. It is absurd. "Absurd in the highest possible degree."
And yet, he believes it, for the sake of his theory.
>>672015941
I can't tell if b8, or stupid..
>>672024676
asking how the steps came to be together and trying to get an answer that isnt "oh hurrr durrr they all evolved together at the same time" is not be being stupid, I wanna know how it happened, just like with the fibrogen.
>>672023638
Bunch of unrelated bones found miles apart and missing a pelvis, which is "assumed" to be "humanlike".
Maybe it's time for you to stop believing in "artist's renditions".
>>672024675
Go learn to read
>>672022439
factually and objectively incorrect
>>672023608
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2130927
BOOM, SCIENCE
>>672023268
evolution is random chance.its nothing guided or directed like most of you autists think. its all completely fucking random. evolution keeps rolling the dice until something works. evolution can even create the same exact failure twice. its all completely random. our existence is the outcome of random chance (according to evolution). why dont you actually learn about evolution instead of making shit up as you go.
>>672024686
So, would you sit and have idle chat with Beelzebub/Lucifer/what have you?
>>672023748
You have to believe the entire universe came from nothing, if you believe in evolution. Most people shy away from that, because it's absurd. they just claim ignorance.
>>672024806
alright, so it was like a recessive trait that only activated hen it was completed? makes more sense
>>672023818
If you believe you, and this universe, are the products of evolution, then evolution is your God.
>>672025052
Why arent there any other self conscious beings in the planet?
>>672023830
Correct. You have to be godless to believe in evolution. Thank you, godless European, for stating that so plainly.
>>672023658
unavailable
Not only that, but u r too dumb to know the rules of nature that the universe allegedly violated. Also there was no "before" - time came to be with the universe, so universe made itself.
Bring up "trans forms" and how the fossil records do not support evolution
>>672015941
There's a video of an ape walking like a human, sounds like evolution to me
stuff like this makes me feel so sorry for rational americans
I cant imagine having to put up with people like this for real
>>672023966
It's been mentioned. It has never been true.
>>672016382
Argument against your blood point is people with haemophilia exist. They are lacking components of the coagulation cascade and continue to survive.
The steps of blood coagulation actually support evolution.
Let's say you have to creatures. One can't clot at all. One mutated the first step in the cascade reducing the risk of bleeding. Coagulation stages are genetic on the X chromosome. So when this mutant survives an injury that should have made it bleed out, it gets to pass it's dominant genes on.
It's offspring now all have that gene. In a hundred thousand years one of their offspring mutates and develops the second step. Etc.
Anyone that doesn't believe in evolution is absofukinglutely retarded.
Drug resistant bacteria are an evolved species.
>>672023747
your prism is covered in shit. Specific fossils r foun in specific layers of strata. "Flood" would have everything mixed.
Go back to school. Sit down. F.
>>672025311
>implying america has the biggest amount of religious people
>>672025036
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2130927
Lol. Published 1990 and christians still haven't found it.
>>672025108
No. It was useful as far back as bacteria but much simpler then.
See >>672025036
>>672025052
It's random chance of tiny increments as large mutations are almost certainly going to be detrimental where as tiny increments have a 50/50 chance of improvement. Cumulative selection does the rest which isn't random.
>>672024550
Demonstrate that claim and publish a peer reviewed paper please. >>672024965
They've found other examples. Use data that is less than 60 years old and move on.
>>672025078
no. Universe came from the universe and evolution is a discription of the process that caused the variety of life. Universe coming to being and evolution dont address the cause of life. Abiogenesis.
>>672022999
whats a "god"?
>>672025786
Someone who gets trips.
