/b/ why do you think abortion is bad? I'm a conservative and even I think that abortion is fine as long as its consented and not in a fucking alleyway. Please explain, and no shitty answers like
>Muh religion!
>The baby is a thinking thing!
Convince me abortion is not good.
>>710199388
Abortion is an extremely nuanced topic.
If we allow the government to further regulate and legislate things, even down to the very definitions of life, does that not set a precedent? Is defining the point at which something becomes worth life not a dangerous line to tread?
Not only that, but we also have to way "potential." That child, as far as we know, could have grown to be a great person with massive contribution to society. Killing it - and yes, we are committing murder, there is no way around that - is writing off all potential that that child may have had, for the sake of the mother's own reasoning. Is that really okay?
In certain cases yes, abortion should be legal and necessary. But beyond that? I can't say, in good conscience, whether to allow it or not. Killing for the sake of the people has always been a line that man has thinly tread, but abortion goes to another level of thinking...
My personal opinion is that all around, Abortion is the easy way out. Instead of the government setting up a well-maintained system for adoption and foster-care that truly takes care of and protects these unwanted children, and instead of the mothers taking responsibility for their actions, we choose to just kill them. I think that's sad.
>>710200704
weigh*
>>710200704
probably the best thought out perspective on the matter I've heard in a long time. Thank you anon
>>710199388
Is life precious? If so shouldn't all forms of life be treated with respect and care? if so, shouldn't we fight and protect those who can't speak for themselves? If an unborn baby could speak I know exactly what it would tell women: "Check your privilege."
>>710199388
Gr8 b8 m8.
>>710199388
First convince me abortion is not murder
>>710200704
Ehh, not really.
>Allow government to further regulate things
I'm assuming you're saying that the government saying abortion is good is a bad thing. Kind of conflicted? This is more of a point for abortion: saying a woman can't do what they want with their body is basically regulating something that their life revolves around.
>Potential is important
Yes, the baby could have great potential. But it also could not; if the mother/father are too big of dipshits to go buy birth protection, chances are they don't want a baby. For instance, babies that are born from teen mothers have a much higher rate of being in/starting low income families, which is not good and technically unethical for the child.
>Killing for the sake of the people
Yeah, killing is bad. But actively killing an unconsenting live person with memories, connections and family is extremely unethical. Killing an organism that has never suffered, but never felt anything whatsoever is highly more ethical, especially if the mother or father won't want it, meaning it has a higher chance of being abused/having a terrible life.
>Abortion is easy way out
... Pretty much. But some people need that. Teen mothers usually don't want to be teen mothers. That shit ruins their lives in most cases. Also, consider this: If you abort an unwanted baby, that's bad. But that means the mother can grow smarter and better, especially financially, meaning that when they do want to have a child, not only will it have a better life then the one aborted, it also is replacing the aborted baby. In either case the only negative factor for the second child is slight trauma/sadness for the mother.
>>710199388
Abortion saved my life...3 times.
Thanks Abortion!
You also must weigh the factor of the mother, and the time she must endure carrying the parasite (yes, it is a parasite by definition). Is it really worth having a developed person with personality, skills, and possibly something to contribute to society, carry around this abscess that is growing within her just to not kill something that cannot think or provide any other worth to society?
The fetus is also just as valuable just for stem cells.
>>710201591
It is murder. That's what I think. But its the murder of an organism that has the thought process of a grub, if even that. It also can financially stabilise a mother/couple, and possibly spare a child from a bad or terrible life.
>>710201682
>Calls unborn baby parasite and still thinks abortion is ok
Does this mean we can abort niggers for the same reasons?
>>710201682
Exactly. That thing is weighing her down. People will say "yeah but babies are necessary!"
A baby that is brought up by a stable income family will have a great life. A baby brought up by an unwanting single mother will want to kill itself later on. Logic.
>>710201682
Damnthatsedgy.jpg
I'm amazed at the complete disdain people have for human life, honestly.
People are going to do it no matter what. That having been said, it breaks my heart knowing that individuals give up on something as precious as a child. My wife and I have lost 3 pregnancies and a baby at 6 weeks. We may never be able to have kids. To know that people toss away something we desparately want really hurts.
>>710201962
>Says that calling an unborn baby a parasite is bad
My dude a parasite isn't a good thing. Especially a potentially hated one that will leach off the mother and delay her growth financially for 18+ years.
>>710199388
"Good" and "bad" require a moral framework. If you have no moral framework, then no argument will convince you that something is bad.
If your moral framework is based on relativism, then there is no moral difference between giving a hungry man a sandwich and vivisecting your neighbor's mom.
So what's your moral framework?
>>710202051
ok religious cuck. Go away. No valid point here lol. And if you say it is, here is your debunk.
1. Get rid of unwanted baby allows for financial and familial growth for woman and potential partner, allowing a future child to prosper more in society rather then be unwanted and have a more unstable time growing up.
2. it's non thinking and while it can be a thinking organism, it isn't. You're aborting a grub basically.
>>710201962
What the fuck ass-backwards thinking goes on through your head?
>>710199388
no idea. You'd think conservatives would like less poor babies being born.
>>710202002
So life is determined only on whether or not the child will have a good life? Return to your safe space faggot, life was never meant to be fun or easy no matter what your faggot gender studies professor told you.
>>710199388
>Convince me abortion is not good.
I can't. Abortion is a hot button topic for a myriad of reasons, some good, others not, most opinions.
What it boils down to is this: Killing something that is causing no harm and cannot protect it self is not a concept that sits well with most people. Yes, fetuses in utero can harm cause harm to to the person carrying them, and some people don't want to carry babies produced from rape to term, but by far and wide most females who want an abortion simply do not want babies.
When it's all said and done you have to make your own choice on how you feel about the issue.
>>710201813
If it's murder, then it's bad. Unless you think murder is okay. A bad thing is bad, even if you think that bad thing will have a "good" result.
>>710202245
My moral framework is the overall happiness of that person. A mother who cannot abort an unwanted child will likely grow to hate it more then a stable mother (and father!) who want a child and can have one.
>>710202346
welcome to 4chan now go back to tumblr
>>710202431
You're a fucking retard. You say my morals are bad. Then what are your reasons for being anti abortion other then morals or religion? Fucking cuck.
Those lucky enough to possess a bit of empathy can't help but feel bad for an unborn child getting killed. I'm speaking of killing fetuses specifically, not embryos. There's a point during a pregnancy were an abortion could be a murder. Not that all are but some could be. The cases like in China were they forced women to abort late term for the one child law. Murder.
>>710202682
>The cases like in China were they forced women to abort late term for the one child law. Murder.
Nope. Wrong.
>>710201627
Truthfully the gov't shouldn't have a hand in it anyways. But you saying that just further drives home the point that it's an incredibly nuanced topic that isn't something that any one person can decide.
You didn't address my point about setting up a better system for adoption and foster care. I would say that that covers my argument for the rest of your post.
I fully understand your points, but I simply don't believe in taking away the potential for life. Call me an idealist, but I believe in the abilities of every being's worth and existence, even if it's just to feed another one. Humans are the exception of the food chain, and I think we shouldn't take human lives lightly.
Coldly weighing the pros and cons of human life is far too dystopia-esque for me, but maybe that's the future. I hope not though.
>>710202504
Is the murder of a pig alright, for food? The murder of a non thinking organism for a gain in some way. That is a description for killing animals for food or supplies. It is the same description for abortion. In order to stabilize a family you give up a child that can experience and unstable time growing up and instead receive a child that has a sheltered and provided life, possibly multiple.
>>710202682
this
>>710202344
1. Having a baby =/= poverty
2. Placing value on human life based on thinking capacity means smart people have more value than dumb people. Also, 1 day old newborns can't think, either. What's the difference between the baby outside of the womb and inside the womb?
>>710202682
>>710202844
Its kind of true, but the fetus still can't think. Still can't feel much pain. It is morally fucked though.
>>710199388
If ever (and believe me this is a hypothetical) you happen to have a kid. You will change your mind about abortion the first time you hear its heart beat on the ultrasound.
The first time I heard my son's beating heart in my wife's womb my whole perspective on life changed and it brought tears to my eyes.
>>710202638
Check your living privilege. Unborn babies can't speak, so we must speak for them. They just want to live the same as you do. Don't they have the right to breath air? or is the world just too small in your brain to share? Seriously, return to your safe place you over privileged child.
>>710202989
>1. Having a baby =/= poverty
No, but poor people have a much higher rate of abortion than those better off.
>>710199388
>I think that abortion is fine as long as its consented
How does the child consent?
>>710202932
Animals aren't people. If we treat animals as equals (moral agents) then why not treat plants the same way? SALAD IZ MURDUR!
>>710202989
1. It doesn't directly = poverty. But abortions for a financially unstable family or even single mother are helpful. Especially if it leads to more children with more success.
2. We are animals. Animals are slaughtered daily. They don't think or have ethics like us. I support the slaughter of animals for food. I support abortion because it can lead to a financially stable family and a good population.
>>710203117
>They just want to live the same as you do
"They" don't "want" anything, they can't think, comprehend, or understand
>>710202881
You think of human life far more positively then me, with more empathy. There's no way our arguments would work for each other.
>>710203084
>>710203014
Nope, in that particular instance, the example granted by that particular post, it's false equivalence. One can't murder something that doesn't have a soul, and the Chinese don't have souls.
Niggers
>>710199388
>as long as its consented
Really? The baby gave its consent to be murdered?
Idiot.
Im going to keep it very simple for all you stupid fucks.
While the world is overpopulated and as long as we are in a state where we are consuming more than we are creating/providing for mankind abortion is fine by me. Kill the child so it doesnt drag the rest of humanity down. Dont let the entire planet fall because you all decided morals are more important.
>>710203327
wow, you sound like a 1930s German
>>710203327
When does a baby start "thinking"?
Is it OK to kill them up until then?
Fuck, you are a tool and a troll.
>>710203117
Yeah I am privileged, and if those mother fuckers can't talk, then fuck em. You think I'm gonna pull my punches on someone weaker than me if my own well being is at cost? No. Fuck them, and fuck you.
You want some safe space, play nice, oh we all get along attitude? Doesn't happen in the real world.
You think CEOs shake hands with competitors? No, they fucking destroy them or buy them out. You think the head of some corporation gives a fuck about the guy in the mailroom? Fuck no, they cut him when they need to let someone go.
Fuck some cluster of cells. If that mother fucker wants to live, it better make some noise otherwise it's fucked.
I cut my grass. You think I give a fuck about killing grass? You think I give a fuck about killing cows? No. Because WE ARE PRIVILEGED. And that's not a bad fucking thing.
>>710203084
Good thing I'm a filthy faggot :D
Also, were you in a financially stable place? You actually had access to and ultrasound, and it sounded like you were married. I full support married people and unmarried people having kids, as long as the little cuck won't have a shitty time growing up (such as in a financially unstable home).
>>710201682
>You also must weigh the factor of the mother, and the time she must endure carrying the parasite (yes, it is a parasite by definition)
The thing that I don't understand about liberals' world view is, in your ideal world where women spend their 20s and 30s getting educated and having a career, who the hell is going to have the children to carry on the next generation? Because it sure as hell isn't the woman who has finally "settled down" at age 40 - her eggs are now expired and any child she is able to bear at this age has a dramatically increased risk for autism.
>>710203162
And why is that? They make poor decisions. Encouraging abortion is continuing the cycle of terrible decisions.
Besides, if you consider abortion murder, but acceptable murder, then why wouldn't it be okay for poverty mom to kill 2 of her 5 kids to reduce the grocery bill? Why is murder acceptable in one circumstance but not another?
>>710203421
how bout you just kill yourself instead. I'd rather have innocence than your poison rhetoric
>>710199388
I'm pro-choice and anti-abortion. They're not mutually exclusive. I think abortion is short-sighted and selfish, and I think it degrades all life by reducing it to a convenience. Of course, I think the same thing about meat farming, which is why I'm vegetarian. If I catch a fish myself I'll eat it, or if someone brings me meat they've hunted themselves, I'll eat it; but turning meat into a widget on an assembly line is disrespectful to the animal and, by extension, to all life.
However, I think everyone has the right to make their own bad decisions. Other people eat meat, and I support their right to do so. Similarly, other people get abortions, and I support their right to do so. Their body, their decision. I reserve the right to express a negative opinion about abortion -- something which infuriates most feminists -- but I would and do fight for women's right to make that decision for themselves, right or wrong.
>>710203519
>>710202527
>My moral framework is the overall happiness of that person.
So, in other words, hedonism. I have a strong suspicion that you have not put much thought into this.
>>710203538
>I'm a filthy faggot
No wonder you have no moral compass or empathy.
>>710203117
>Return to my safe space
>Check your privilege
ok tumblerina. But babies don't want. They can't. They are thoughtless grubs until taught/they learn human emotions and feelings.
Also you blatantly ignore the fact that a baby that apparently has wants might not want to grow up in a family of 10 with a household income of 10,000 or under. That's a pretty shitty existence. I know I'd decline.
>>710203519
Thanks for showing your true colors for once.
>>710203226
>Animals aren't people
How so? Because they don't think like us. Does a baby think like us? No, cus its a fucking infant. I support the murder of animals fyi. Proud omnivore.
>>710199388
If the Republicans had not blocked abotions their party would be stronger. But since they did not more and more porn had babies. Why did they help the other party so much?
>>710203510
>24th to 28th week of gestation
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
About that point, well beyond the accepted limit for abortions
>>710203578
Here's the thing, I'm not for abortion but I am pro choice. I'm for sex ed. I'm for contraceptives.
What I'm NOT for is taking away sex ed and preaching abstinence only. doesn't work, yet conservatives time and time again wanna pray the desires away. Abortion is not encouraging a "terrible decision" it's getting them out of one. And that's where the education has to come in. Sex ed and contraceptives are PROVEN to lower child pregnancy rates across the board, but ohhhhh we can't do that, people might have SEX.
This puritan shit has got to go.
>>710203280
1. If financial stability absolves murder, then I should go murder the staff of a bank and increase my wealth to have greater financial stability. Financial stability is a condition, not a moral act.
2. Murdering babies for money does not make it morally sound. A cartel's hitman that murders other drug dealers would then be morally justified in murder.
>>710203418
baby can't give consent. Does a cow give its consent to be factory farmed and then have its throat cut? No.
>But animals are people!
Guess again. We are morally and mentally advantaged animals. Our fetuses can't think like us. Can't give consent. I know I wouldn't give consent to be raised in a shitstained family of 10 with a household income of 10,000
>>710203014
>Its kind of true, but the fetus still can't think. Still can't feel much pain.
Are newborn babies capable of complex thoughts? If you base your concept of humanity around the ability to think, then pretty much all babies can be killed without consequence and some computers might deserve civil rights.
Humanity is determined by your DNA and your potential to grow into a human adult, which all babies and fetuses are capable of.
>>710203601
practicality > morals
Have fun with no food, clean water, and being surrounded by inbreds.
I honestly don't see abortion can be bad in any way shape or form.
>lower population
>less neglected children
>>710202932
>Is the murder of a pig alright, for food? The murder of a non thinking organism for a gain in some way. That is a description for killing animals for food or supplies. It is the same description for abortion. In order to stabilize a family you give up a child that can experience and unstable time growing up and instead receive a child that has a sheltered and provided life, possibly multiple.
Can a pig grow into a scholar or an engineer, ever? Because a baby can. Stop basing your concept of morality on equivalences and relative concepts.
>>710203737
For once? This has always been my stance, you don't know me. It's the only stance to take. Fuck anyone who comes into my bedroom and tries to tell me how to live my life.
>>710203918
LOOOOOL
>>710203571
Kek its not impossible for women to give birth in their 40's. Also, what bitch will spend their 30's being educated? Its easy to get a degree stable job and stable husband by 30, unless you're an ugly fuck.
>>710203423
No, he sounds like someone with facts.
>>710203996
Sex ed and abortion are separate issues.
They are linked only in the sense that the committing the act of the topic of one leads to conditions in which the other is an option.
If abortion is murder, then it is detrimental to both the mother and society.
>>710203918
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxQmOR_QLfQ
>>710203571
it is important that we have kids, okay. but that's not a reason to stop abortion. of course governments should encourage more kids per family but that's not how it goes
>>710204187
A baby can also grow into a drain on resources, probably more often than it would a scholar or engineer.
I would say it comes out in a wash, but frankly, more than half of society is a drain on those that are capable of being self sufficient.
>>710204275
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=oldest%20woman%20to%20have%20a%20child
You are so fucking wrong rofl
>oldest woman to have a child
retard
>>710203725
So because you think a certain way, you feel that others share automatically share your sentiment? I was a failed abortion, grew up in white trash Tennessee, abusive parents, CPS visits on a regular basis. Learned to rise above the smog. Got educated, went to college, and now living higher middle class. I may not have wanted to grow up in a shit storm, but I had the courage to change my course. Abortion is a cowards way out. Rising above your circumstances and accepting the consequences of your actions is what makes you a better person.
>>710203578
Of course its not ok for a poverty mom to kill her kids. But that's the thing: If they're nonthinking animals, its fine. Is it alright for a woman to kill her cats to financially stabilize her family? Yes. Fetuses are smaller then and do not think as much as cats. There's a difference between fetuses and children, fucknut.
>>710203664
There's no point in contributing a sane, logically-supported view in this thread is there? It's non-stop O'Reilly Talking Points vs Babby's First Year Philosophy Class at volume 11 in here, and anything less than a shriek will be completely ignored.
>>710202638
Oh, fuck off, you middle-school level nihilist. Morals are worth something, because we're thinking creatures that feel emotion. Morals are driven mainly by empathy, the recognization of others as thinking, feeling beings like yourself, and thus respect for them. Without these things, we aren't much better than wild animals. Even Nietzche understood morality.
Quit being such an edgelord. Your views aren't anything close to being well adjusted or reasonable.
>>710203423
What's wrong with that? What's wrong with not valuing life? You see, life intrinsically has no value. Today, right now, at this very moment, you are alive, but in another five, ten, seconds you could die of a blood clot.
Life is fragile, and the world is harsh. To bring a being which is not wanted into such a harsh world rather than killing it, that is a true crime. No, I do not say we must kill all the babies, but to not have parents have that option is unthinkably abhorrent
>>710203519
>>710203870
>>Animals aren't people
>
>How so?
Their DNA will never let them grow into humans. An infant's DNA will.
>>710203676
You're right. Didn't understand shit about your question.
Also, there's a difference between satisfaction in life and hedonism. I want babies that turn into satisfied adults, not fucking looters and arsonists.
>>710203918
/b/ is blinded by ignorance.
>>710201627
>Killing an organism that has never suffered, but never felt anything whatsoever is highly more ethical, especially if the mother or father won't want it, meaning it has a higher chance of being abused/having a terrible life.
Killing any kind of human life is unethical without question. If two human beings are going to have unprotected sex knowing the outcome will be having a baby, then they now have a responsibility. They made the poor choice of having sex if they couldn't afford it, and must pay the price. It is still ok to set up for adoption and things like that. But to hit the eject button a living being should be unthinkable.
If I were to tell you a mother did decide to have the baby but later realized that she can not afford it, would it be ethical to kill it? Certainly not. After all, the baby is not going to have any memories on its current life.
>>710204367
So what gives you the right to speak for someone else exactly?
>>710203697
Nice bait.
>>710204335
Nazis had "facts"
>>710203421
>the world is overpopulated so we need everybody to have abortions
>western birth rates are too low so we need to import large numbers of mexicans, arabs and africans
Globalists need to stop mixing up their story.
>>710204624
So we should all live according to you and your version of morality?
>>710204644
It's not bait it's my honest opinion.
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=c1e_1417828730
>>710204445
Ok then billy. You were intelligent enough to get out of that dump. Judging from the horde of filtyh niggers and poverty stricken people, do you think everyone is that smart? A dumb baby borne to a dumb family will have a shittier life then a dumb baby borne to a stable, not as retarded family.
>>710204250
>IT'S NOT A PHASE DAD
>GET OUT OF MY ROOOOOM
*turns up Eminem*
Abortion is good because it reduces crime. Reason being shitty parents don't have shitty kids they're not ready for.
Abortion is bad because you're killing your children.
/thread.
>>710204624
>Killing any kind of human life is unethical without question.
Man runs into your house, has a gun to your head. You don't fight to save yourself?
>>710204465
Um, no sense has been made here. Go ahead and call me a nihilist if you want, but you sound like a fucking grade 3 retard. I believe in satisfaction with your life a mindless grub animal in a woman's stomach can't feel shit until 26 weeks, which is well passed the stage during which you can abort.
You say my views aren't well adjusted or reasonable? Why do you think I started this thread? I want to understand the reasons why abortion is bad. Tell me how they aren't good.
>>710204275
I didn't say impossible. I said increased risks. Expired eggs can grow into people, they are just gross people with defects. Past a certain age, though, the egg store closes up shop, as many young women don't seem to understand.
>>710204443
>The risk of pregnancy complications increases as the mother's age increases. Risks associated with childbearing over the age of 50 include an increased incidence of gestational diabetes, hypertension, delivery by caesarean section, miscarriage, preeclampsia, and placenta previa.[4][8] In comparison to mothers between 20 and 29 years of age, mothers over 50 are at almost three times the risk of low birth weight, premature birth, and extremely premature birth; their risk of extremely low birth weight, small size for gestational age, and fetal mortality was almost double.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50
>>710199388
I'm all for abortion. I think a mother and father should reserve the right to about up to the 104th trimester.
>>710204447
Is a fetus (and unborn human) human? Yes.
Is a newborn human? Yes.
Is a toddler human? Yes.
Is a teenager human? Yes.
Is a person in a coma human? Yes.
Is a cat human? No.
If, as humans, we value human life, then we should not end human life without great deliberation. War, capital punishment, and removing someone from life support all involve deliberation over the case at hand.
Abortion on demand has none of that. If abortion is murder, and we value human life, then abortion is bad.
If human life has a sliding scale of value; if certain human lives are more valuable than others, then you've entered moral relativism and no argument will convince you that abortion is bad.
>>710204595
Just stop talking.
>>710204756
You think I was born smart? I was an under achiever until middle school. I just had enough of the crap and realized that education was the only way out. I had determination, something everyone has. I made the effort to get smart and leave behind my shitty life. ANYONE can do it, they're just too lazy.
>>710204570
You're a fucking retard. The baby during abortion stage is the same/worse then the animals we slaughter on a daily basis. Sure, it has value. But abortion is for white trash families. White trash families, or worse, niggers, have no future value. Baby with no future value? Abort! Also, if that white trash family is fucking burdened with 5 kids they can actually be intelligent and maybe get a job/jobs? Christ.
>>710199388
This idea of "potential" is far reaching. It's like saying we shouldn't put dogs down because they could be a "man's best friend". Appears as if there is an obsession with rights. We live and die. Period. Allow people to live their life and face consequences. One argument I tend to hear is "what if your mother aborted you?". This question is far reaching, and somewhat idiotic, because if she did, I wouldn't be here. Case closed. That's it. No discussion about it. Humans are not that special. We live and die just as animals and plants do. Get over yourself humans.
>>710204711
Nothing was said about birth rates nor the spicks, towelheads or niggers. What you said has no relevance to what i said.
>>710204820
hurrrdurrr. Yeah, because what I said is so edgy. Maybe you're fine with dumbass regulations. I'm not.
>>710202881
Setting up a better system of adoption and also teaching safe sex in schools instead of that abstinence bullshit. On top of that, churches need to take responsibility for their congregations by realizing that pushing this abstinence crap is just going to cause teen pregnancies.
Educate, create better options, free birth control and condoms. Abortion will phase itself out.
>>710200704
The government already allows some kinds of killings: Self defense, executions, assisted suicide (in some states). If those didn't set enough of a precedent, abortion wouldn't push it over the line
>>710204628
Whom am I speaking for, supposedly? I made a statement, not a statement on behalf of someone.
>>710205314
You're speaking for those "unborn fetuses who don't have a voice so you have to be the voice for them" apparently.
Nigs gon nig.
>>710205030
Sooo. They can still have children past 40. You were wrong.
>>710204628
PETA claims they speak for Animals, why can't someone speak for unborn babies?
>>710204442
Nazi utilitarianism. Those who aren't useful must die.
>>710204442
Incidentally, this is the same rationale that went into the founding of Planned Parenthood.
>In a 1921 article in the Birth Control Review, Sanger wrote, "The most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective." Reviewers of one of her 1919 articles interpreted her objectives as "More children from the fit, less from the unfit." Again, the question of who decides fitness is important, and it was an issue that Sanger only partly addressed. "The undeniably feebleminded should indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind," she wrote.
>http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger05.html
Margaret Sanger thought that abortion was a form of eugenics. It's actually dysgenics - the exact opposite. What actually happens is that the women who are smart enough to plan ahead financially are having abortions, and not passing on their genes. Only the stupidest and most impulsive women are the ones having lots and lots of kids.
>>710204624
>Hit eject button on a living being
Alright buddy. I believe and this is unchangeable that little timmy in his moms belly is worse then a cow. Cows that we slaughter daily.
>Its not gonna have any memories!
That's the fucking point. Would you rather have white trash memories or better ones? fyi I don't believe in souls or that religious shit. I believe that a possible past baby and possible future one are the same baby, except, you know, one will suffer more. Guess which one?
Also, yes the parents should pay the price. But the world doesn't have some divine retribution getting ready to met out judgement. They are going to be pissed at that kid, and possibly mistreat it. Should a child suffer for their mistakes? They can either give a future child a better life, and avoid punishment, or be punished along with their child. If you prefer the second that's pretty fucked.
Go back to school jimmy. We'll wait for you to grow up.
>>710204732
Once again nice bait. It's bait if you call out millions of people as being subhuman or ethically deprived.
>>710205401
Oh. I thought I speaking on behalf of an Anon replying to OP's post.
OP still hasn't identified moral framework; only that OP is "conservative." But based on what? What are OP's principles (other than abortion is acceptable)?
>>710205471
I wasn't wrong. Quote where I said women can't have children past 40. I expect you to apologize in your next post.
>>710205105
My point exactly. Not everyone is as... Unlazy? No, proactive. Proactive as you. They're retarded and lazy and will pollute the USA with their filth.
>>710201682
>>710202051
I was like this....before I got a girl pregnant. She goes in tomorow at 9am to abort it. not even a month old
>>710205581
A valid way of thinking
Do you think that the severely handicapped should be allowed to reproduce and cause an even greater strain on the system?
>>710205882
ofuck
>>710199388
>as long as it's consensual
Ok, as soon as the fetus consents to being murdered I'll be ok with it. Deal?
KILL ALL THE UNBORN FETUSES BWAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!
>>710205537
Yes. We are animals. Also, I think the original point was mine? The person you're talking to is most likely a nihlist that doesn't give a shit about ethics. You're not going to change his view you cuck. I view human satisfaction with their life as the main concept behind our existence. And to make children that won't be shitstorms. Like what abortion is helping us do.
>>710205187
You didn't address what I said, but I will address what you said.
Economic standing of the parents isn't a 100% determiner for the success of a child. There are many examples of successful people whose parents had humble beginnings. My great-grandmother, for example, was born in a poor village in the Ozarks, but her descendants went on to build a multi-million dollar company.
DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU!
>>710199388
>>>/POL/95620225
>https://www.fbi.gov/services/records-management/foipa/requesting-fbi-records
https://www.fbi.gov/services/records-management/foipa/requesting-fbi-records
BASED FBI GIVING US A SIGNAL
>The message is Comey is bought and paid for.
>Keep digging. Find more of this fucker letting the Clintons slide.
FBI Director Comey was board member of HSBC – Clinton Foundation & Drug Cartel ‘bank of choice’
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/11/hsbc-bank-us-money-laundering
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/dec/11/hsbc-bank-us-money-laundering
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/search/node/HSBC
> https://www.clintonfoundation.org/search/node/HSBC
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/hillary-clinton-foundation-donors-hsbc-swiss-bank
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/hillary-clinton-foundation-donors-hsbc-swiss-bank
REQUEST
>REQUEST
REQUEST ON CHEESE PIZZARONI, WEINER, HUMA. INVESTIGATIONS INTO FEC VIOLATIONS LEADING TO INT’L FINANCEERS. REQUEST ON ILLEGAL ARMS DEALING IN LIBYA. MARC TURI. MKULTRA.
WALLENBERG FAMILY. MOSSAD. 9/11. CLINTON FOUNDATION. QATAR MONEY TRANSFER. GEORGE SOROS. 33K EMAILS. 650K EMAILS. JACK QUINN. ABEDIN FAMILY. ROTHSCHILDS. 7TH FLOOR GROUP.
VINCE FOSTER. SETH RICH. HSBC BANK. IRAN CASH FOR HOSTAGES.
>REQUEST ON CHEESE PIZZARONI, WEINER, HUMA. INVESTIGATIONS INTO FEC VIOLATIONS LEADING TO INT’L FINANCEERS. REQUEST ON ILLEGAL ARMS DEALING IN LIBYA. MARC TURI. MKULTRA.
>WALLENBERG FAMILY. MOSSAD. 9/11. CLINTON FOUNDATION. QATAR MONEY TRANSFER. GEORGE SOROS. 33K EMAILS. 650K EMAILS. JACK QUINN. ABEDIN FAMILY. ROTHSCHILDS. 7TH FLOOR GROUP.
>VINCE FOSTER. SETH RICH. HSBC BANK. IRAN CASH FOR HOSTAGES.
FBI Tweeted this (Oct 2015):
>Make FOIA requests electronically,receive your response to your email account. Open beta test of eFOIA at: h ttps://efoia.fbi.gov
The eFOIPA portal’s normal operating hours are Monday to Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
>>710205979
Fetus doesn't get a fucking opinion. Take your bleeding heart elsewhere. Apex predator makes the rules. Fuck the fetus.
OHH BUUHUU THE LION IS KILLING THE PREGNANT GAZELLE.
YEAH, BECAUSE THE LION MAKES THE FUCKING RULES
Abortion is fine.
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>>710205773
So education is the answer, not abortion. I've had constant sex since 17. I'm 35. The ONLY time I intentionally shot into a woman was when I was 31 because I wanted a child and so did she. It's not hard(no pun intended) to keep some one from getting pregnant. Just don't be stupid. But abortion because of inconvenience or a mistake is never the answer.
well OP my opinion is that abortion should be legal up to a certain point.
1 month, ok, 2 months ehhhhh, 6 months into the abortion.....
>>710206073
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>>710205194
The overpopulation argument is not valid because it hinges on the assumption that food production efficiency is fixed. The fact is that over the past 100 years alone, food production per acre has increased several times over. Do you have reason to believe that it can't continue to increase?
>>710205979
lmao we've dealt with this so many times.
1. Fetus might have shit life
2. Parents dont want
3. Stain on society
4. Nobody is happy
this has a good chance of happening for the niggers and white trash families abortion is for, read the thread you nigger.
>>710204624
Their brains aren't even forming thoughts until pretty late on in the pregnancy, so I can see where you're coming from but honestly it's not even a living thing as we think of a living thing. Yes it has cell growth and shit but it's not even experiencing anything. Also, some life just needs to stamped out some times. If some guy is out there murdering people, you off that one guy and now all that's left are people who were smart enough to take that guy out, and then stop taking people out after that.
>>710205004
I'm not the SAFE SPACE FAGGOT guy, so calm your damn tits.
I'm more along the lines of the one dude here. >>710200704
I feel that human life has inherent worth, that's pretty much it. A fetus may not feel much at the time, but they are human, and thus they have potential. Without interference, they'll naturally grow into a thinking human being.
Such hatred and disgust for them is unwarranted, and this cold, disdainful reasoning just doesn't sit right. We should strive to be more than just meat, than just animals seeking to fulfill drives. We're worth more than that.
>>710201196
Life is precious, but you have to consider quality of life.
If abortion hadn't been the choice we went with my spouse and I would have been parents in high school.
Neither of us would have been good parents to a child, which would result in suffering for that child.
Same with adoption, there's a chance they could get stuck in the foster system for years.
Children deserve to be born into a home that wants them, a home that intentionally sought them out and has the means to provide for them.
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>>710206154
Either wear a condom or deal with the consequences of your actions you fucking degenerate. Killing someone because it's more convenient for you?
That's fucking pathetic and you know it.
>>710205861
Sad.
You'll regret it someday, even though right now you think you won't.
Don't do it, anon. Don't let your child get murdered.
>>710204714
If you are going to argue that murder is ethical, then yes. It is completely reasonable to agreeable.
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Did someone say......?
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>>710199388
If we continue to kill our children, the sandniggers continue on spreading, we'll have nobody to fight them.
So stop killing them before they even hatch.
DEUS VULT
>>710206044
Who's grandparents weren't poor fucking niggers? Literally 1% of the population. But that's not the point. We're getting to a point where its extremely hard and extremely challenging to climb up the economic ladder. Unless you're extremely determined, which, guess what, 98% of niggers and white trash families aren't, you're not going to climb. Stop babies that will bring down economy, live a shitty unsatisfied life and generally won't do any good shit.
Also keks to anon saying he owns a million dollar company
>>710206279
So murder should be legalized if it's consensual?
A fetus is a stain on society? How the fuck does that make sense?
>might have a shit life
So we should kill people if they have shitty lives, yeah ok.
>>710204882
You have self defense, but that has nothing to do about abortion. You are comparing apples to oranges.
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>>710201196
>Is life precious? If so shouldn't all forms of life be treated with respect and care? if so, shouldn't we fight and protect those who can't speak for themselves?
by that logic veggies are murder and taking antibiotics while you have a bacterial infection is genocide and puts you on the same level of adolf hitler
>>710204714
So we should all live according to YOU and YOUR version of morality?
Double standards there, pard.
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>>710206555
nice trips
>>710206555
>or you can wear a condom
"I fucked up, better kill a baby... I'm a shitty person who can't own up to my responsibilities and decisions in life so that means the baby might be sad, might as well kill it."
>>710206295
Quality of life? So if you lose your job and become homeless, kill yourself?
No parents are perfect. Who's a better parent: the parent who tries to take care of their kid, or the parents that murders their kid?
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>>710206402
I'm saying murder does happen sometimes for the betterment of society.
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>>710206258
My basis has always been what the earth ALONE with no human beings will produce. We eat nearly twice that which the earth produces every year. This is why we farm and cultivate. The world by itself cannot sustain us and it is wrong that we are going to drain the planet dry just to keep our numbers high.
No.710206044 silly asian man your great grandmama smelled of potatoes and alcohol and WE STILL NEED TO KILL ALL FETUSES AND STOP TRUMP FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT
Alright, OP here. I have seen the shitstain this thread has become. The actually intelligent people here, who I applaud, have shown me this:
1. Abortion should be bad. These people have ethics above mine. I believe in personal satisfaction. It does not look to me that niggers and white trash families are going to rise. People say they have. They are most likely one in a thousand, maybe even a higher number. Please respond with an explanation.
FYI my "moral framework"
Human satisfaction with their life is key. Contributing to society comes next e.g not being a white trash or filthy nigger (smart niggers can be useful though).
Fuck people that won't do either or will bring down others. Thank you.
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>>710205979
>A pre-babby's "opinion" matters as much as an adult's
Here we have it, ladies and gents, the core argument of the life movement expressed in it's purest form, and their arrogance writ bare in the same breath. He honestly thinks something that is less than a baby is entitled to opinions and consent.
Pro-life is nothing more than an infantile reaction to the realization that your own birth wa a happy accident coupled with a failure to understand that not all lives can thrive, ever.
It is literally babby's first opinion.
>>710199388
Actually It should be OK within the first trimester. It shouldn't be used as a form of birth-control. After their first one, the second should come with the tying of tubes. They can be untied later if they wish to have a family later.
Both the mother and the father have rights. if she want's to abort and he doesn't. Then he pays for the delivery and all the prenatal care and he gets sole custody of the child. and vice versa.
>>710199388
We should enforce planed parenting and allow abortion if the female is unable to give birth costing the life of both and if they don't want the child she can give the child to someone who can take care ie.orphanage/foster-parents/family member who cant have kids BUT if this happens with a couple often then the will be tried at court.
>>710205943
I have an uncle who has cerebral palsy and he married another woman who has light CP and (we think) undiagnosed mental retardation. They have two normal kids, although obviously CP is not genetic.
>>710206787
Wrong. By becoming economically sustainable there are oppurtunities for more children and children with better lives.
I don't believe in souls or that shit. I believe that when a child is born a child is born: it has though. It will not suffer if dead. Because it has no conscious.
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>>710206867
No. Murder is bad for society.
"Killing" is ending a life. This happens in war and capital punishment.
"Murder" is killing an innocent person. Society frowns on murder. That's why the mom who drowns her kids goes to prison.
>>710206608
I'm pointing out the fact that if you're too stupid to defend your OWN life, then who the fuck cares about your opinion in the first place?
Weak standing up for the weak? We need less of both.
>>710206709
>thinks that by that logic vegetables are the same as humans
>>710206965
>believing someones life has more valuable because it's been around longer
Love the desperate attempts you people have to claim it's not a living thing... it's almost as if you'd feel bad if you accepted them for what they are.
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>>710207118
Then you should go to jail every time you cut yourself because you killed living cells.
>>710205606
>believe that a possible past baby and possible future one are the same baby, except, you know, one will suffer more. Guess which one?
Are you talking about reincarnation?
Either way, if the parents are mis treating a child, there is still places that can offer help for that. It shouldn't be an option to just end the life. You know as well as I do, that if I see parents mis treating their child, abusing it, whatever, you don't shoot the kid. That would be insane.
There are places that take care of children with abused parents, ya know.
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>>710206763
No, I'm the one hands off of the equation. You're the one who wants women to carry unwanted babies. I have an opinion, you want regulation.
>>710207176
SOMEONE FUCKING PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
>>710199388
It's not so much that I think abortion is "wrong" in some morally objective sense. But I do think that abortion is a crude, barbaric, and for the most part unnecessary procedure.
We know, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, that something like 95% of all abortions are performed not because of rape, incest, or health complications, but for no greater reason than..."oops." In fact, 40% of women who have 1 abortion will have a second one at some point in their lives. It's being used as birth control, essentially. And in 2016, I find that sort of off-putting.
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cerebral palsy sounds like fun......
is it like buiding legos or fapping to katelin jenner
>>710207118
Ok. No arguement for pro life has been made. Nobody cares about that. Then abortion is killing. It is ending an innocent, yes, but we do that to pigs and animals everyday. All of which have more elaborate thoughts then a baby.
>>710207062
>we think undiagnosed mental retardation
This obviously doesn't classify as "severe", as expressed in my previous post
I'm talking about those with down syndrome that cannot function on their own in society and need caregivers to be around 100%. Things like that
>>710207118
jesus christ, if I knew I had to be hyper literal with you I would have broken out the crayons.
Kill the fetus then. That better?
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>>710206555
Lots of people's grandparents didn't grow up poor. Why do you think that the middle class sprung to life only in the past 40 years?
>Also keks to anon saying he owns a million dollar company
I don't, but many people in my family still work for it and it was founded by my family. Something tells me that you don't have any concept for what "million dollar company" means. This is by no means some kind of large corporation. I'm talking about a medium sized commercial real estate firm with one office.
>>710206787
You are already here, that doesn't hold up. A lot of people probably would kill themselves in that situation.
I'll give you an example: I was at the grocery store, and was sitting in my car.
A woman walked out with a crying child, and for a second I mentally commended her patience.
That was until she started slapping him in the face in the car, holding his hands back when he tried to defend himself.
She kept screaming "what the fuck is wrong with you"
And hitting him, even after her partner came out of the store with another child.
All I could think is that the child being hit, and the one who has undoubtedly had the same treatment will grow up so fucked.
And that it would honesty be better if their parents hadn't gone through with the pregnancy, the woman being unable to control her anger towards a child, and the man neglecting to care for that child.
Do you really think a life of getting assaulted by a woman who's supposed to love and protect him is going to turn out well?
>>710206614
>>710206769
The fuck is wrong with you?
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>>710207231
Yeah but you do fucking realize that instead giving a potential child a good life from the start is a better idea? Fucking numbskull. Here is my "moral framework":
A fetus is a potential child. If you abort a potential child, then it goes back to being a potential child. Give a potential child a shit life or good one?
By the way you can't possibly say abortion is unethical without believing in reincarnation. In which case you're kind of a religious cuck.
>>710207157
Bacteria are living things. Plants are living things. Animals are living things. The humans that lead miserable lives so that I can have cheap tea and clothes are living beings. Life eats life. It's not pretty but quit pretending that it's special to be human when there are literally 7 billion of us.
Our society would collapse if we tried to support every living thing that had done no wrong. You can lament it, you can hate it, you can spend your entire life fighting it.
But you still have to eat, and so does that unborn kid. Unless you're willing to take personal responsibility for it, don't cry foul when it perishes.
DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU!..!
>>710207518
DESU HAS HIM, THAT'S WHAT! OFUCK, DESU HAS ME
DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU!
ITT: manchildren who can't afford condoms
>fucking got some girl pregnant now I gotta sell my xbox to pay for the abortion.
Hey guess what, adoption is free. Oh wait, let's just kill the damn thing right?
Pro-death faggots have been desperately trying to cling to psuedo intellectual "arguments" to convince people babies aren't alive just to justify murder due to their own inability to deal with life since the beginning of this abortion trend. It's really pathetic.
DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU!! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU! DESU!
>>710206763
It's not a double standard because no one is trying to push abortion on anyone. Don't like abortion? Don't get one. Instead, you're taking the option away from plenty of women who could benefit.
>>710202124
how wealthy are you?
>>710206781
sooo you are in favor of forcing pregnancy and parenthood as punishment? People are going to abort whether it is legal or not. So you might as well make it safe. And don't get on the whole missed opportunity of life. many women stay at home moms missed professional opportunities cause of pregnancy. And if some woman know s that it is a bad idea for her to have a child, then I would fully support her decision to abort.
>>710206886
>My basis has always been what the earth ALONE with no human beings will produce.
And you think anybody knows what this amount is because.....? Do you not understand the concept of food production efficiency increasing?
>We eat nearly twice that which the earth produces every year.
Where does this number come from? Wild nuts and berries and such? You sound completely full of shit to me.
>>710199388
>/b/ why do you think abortion is bad?
Abortion is an elective medical procedure that removes a developing life from existence.
Abortion also means society has failed in allowing a woman to plan the number and spacing of her births (if any).
Birth control and STI prophylactics should be free (as in beer).
>>710206291
Grandpa with dementia isn't feeling much either. We don't think it's OK to snuff him out. We care for him until he dies.
>>710206291
>Yes it has cell growth and shit but it's not even experiencing anything
It is experiencing evolution like you and me. It eats and grows. From the point of conception is when you know it's going to come out as a baby. Call it a bundle of cells all you want, but if it's going to grow up as a human adult then you should not kill it.
Also, I am not for death penalty. I believe the murderer takes his time in jail for however long.
>>710206867
Is it really better for us to just throw out human life as if it were mere trash?
Abortion doesn't fix shit. It's the pound of cure that an ounce of prevention would have done wonders for earlier. And even with abortion, 'niggers' and 'white trash' are still having babies by the fucking dozen.
We should be educating people. We should be teaching people forethought, integrity, and fidelity. Not giving people a 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card and allowing them to be just as fucked up and dysfunctional as before with no goddamn betterment in their lives.
>>710199388
Idk. I mean,on the one hand it's killing children, but on the other hand it's giving women a voice.
>>710207496
Growing up in a village was the middle class back then. You were either some rich baron or a peasant. Very few people in between. And that's not the fucking point.
Give me a decent pro life argument other then "Muh grandfather!"
>>710207090
I don't remember the term. Materialist? You believe that only the physical world exists, and that matter is the only reality?
If that's the case, then you have no basis for morality, because ultimately nothing matters. You die, and cease to exist. Your actions, "good" or "bad" do not matter, because eventually the sun will expand as it ages and bake the earth until life is no longer possible and then eventually collapse all matter in the universe will eventually expend its energy and become inert and cold and dead and nothing means anything.
So, yeah, if you had started with that, we all could have saved some time in trying to convince you otherwise.
>>710207603
>unless you're willing to take personal responsibility for it
That's ironic coming from a pro-deather.
Maybe try to go back and get your GED and get a job instead of "but muh-bacteria is alive"'ing on the internet all day?
ARRGGHH Im a nigger pirate lets worshipe katelin jenner with downs syndrome by shovin crayons up our dickholes
>>710207603
You are my hero.
Abortion is awesome. I encourage women to do as many abortions as possible.
>>710206904
>It does not look to me that niggers and white trash families are going to rise. People say they have. They are most likely one in a thousand, maybe even a higher number. Please respond with an explanation.
Black people in ghettos live in a cycle that keeps them there, but the answer isn't to encourage them to kill their children. See my post about dysgenics (do a Ctrl + F, I don't want to lose my place in the thread to link it).
>>710207749
>many women stay at home moms missed professional opportunities
Holy shit it's almost like decisions have consequences! Shocker.
>>710206886
Yes, we shouldnt have gotten so uppity and used our brains for the betterment of ourselves. Makes perfect fucking sense.
>>710202124
then fucking adopt you whiney cunt. There are plenty of kids without parents out there, don't fucking do the "they are giving away what we desire" excuse when you can easily be a parent. The real reason is that you want it to be yours. Look in the mirror you self obsessed genomic loser.
>>710199388
The abortion issue, condensed:
Whether, and when, abortion should be legal is dependent on the definition of a "human life"; not human, and not life, independently. "Life" is not sufficient, because we kill animals and plants every day. "Human" is not enough, because DNA on its own has no rights. So we must define a "human life" based on what separates humans from animals: our brain. So I posit that before there is higher brain function, a forming human is not a "human life," just like a potato of a person who has lost any possibility of regaining higher brain function is also no longer a "human life."
This would leave us with a simple test. If a fetus has specific brain waves, it is considered to be a human life, and therefore has rights as an individual. This person cannot be aborted unless there is a significant risk to the mother (which are competing rights, mother wins). If those brain waves don't exist, abortion should be absolutely legal, and should not require bullshit waiting periods, counseling, or unnecessary hospital clearance.
This brain activity usually starts right at the 22 week mark. This is more than enough time to determine that you are pregnant, and then decide whether or not to keep the kid. This should apply to any case: even if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest, if you wait too long (like a fucking idiot) then you have to deal with the fact that you are now carrying a person, who has rights.
Furthermore, on a side note, men should have absolutely no say in whether a pregnancy is terminated. But since they have no rights here, they should be able to renounce parental rights and responsibilities-- no rights as a father or financial liability. Or not. Then men won't be forced into fatherhood and a financial nightmare, while women can simply decide whether or not to abort. All decisions should be made with plenty of time for both parties to make informed decisions.
TL;DR: Just read it, it's a complicated issue.
>>710207831
And that's why I said, abortion should be coupled with education. Abortion doesn't have to be a thing if we prepare right. But if it comes down to it, yeah sure, it should be an option.
You act like people are running out and having abortions for fun.
>>710207517
Obviously, his situation is not good. But having bad parents does not justify murder.
>>710207664
Um, ok. What's your arguement?
>Muh religion!
>Babies are thinking too!
I understand this topic triggers you mister SJW, but seriously, would you consider it ethical to kill a non-thinking organism to benefit a future non-thinking organism (even multiple) with higher potential AND a mother to that organism?
Let me guess: Muh religion and muh ethics state that babies have souls!
Well then you have no hope and neither of us will convince one another.
>>710207389
I guess the real question I have for you is why did you type "be allowed to reproduce," and not "be aborted"? It is difficult to fathom a downie getting a date. Do they really have sex?
TLDR - it's a woman's fetus. She can choose what she wants to do with it. You can not like it, but it's not up to you. End of fucking story
WHO WANTS TO SEE MY BALLS?!?!?!? OH WAIT YOU CANT BECAUSE THERE ALREADY UP A DEAD BABYS ASSHOLE AND OUT HIS MOUTH!!!!!
>>710207343
Pigs aren't innocent.
Innocence requires moral agency. Pigs can't make moral choices.
>>710207153
you said all forms of life, not humans,
and to protect those that cannot speak for themselves
carrots and syphilis can not speak
>>710207771
>Disagree
Abortion is removing a non-thinking organism that cannot experience pain from an unwilling woman's body in order to provide a better existance for future non-thinking organisms with more potential, and for the woman.
>Agree
>Agree
>>710200704
But anon
Potential is substantially negated if the parent is a useless irresponsible cunt
Might as well save the kid a shitty life and let the stupid fucks kill their child prebirth
>>710207133
My point was that abortion was murder. If a man has a gun to my head, and I kill him then that would be ethical because I have the right to live and self defense. I am not playing your word samantics though. I know I said 'killing is unethical without question', but you know I am refering to murder.
>>710207835
>Growing up in a village was the middle class back then
It absolutely wasn't.
>You were either some rich baron or a peasant.
I don't think you understand what life was like in America in the early 1900s to 1920s.
>Give me a decent pro life argument other then "Muh grandfather!"
Read the god damn thread. I've made dozens of posts.
>>710208277
>End of fucking story
Except the issue is not so black and white. Partial birth abortions kill the fetus as it's being born. And they are legal in the US. That's fucked up.
>>710208235
I'm not religious and i don't believe in souls. I believe in personal accountability.
Abortions should only be done if the pregnancy seriously affects the health of the woman. If you don't want a baby wear a condom or give it up for adoption.
I don't get why that's difficult for you.
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>>710207804
Because he has meaning and memories. He has helped you. You owe him a debt, even if you hate him you still owe him.
White trash and niggers don't owe their babies shit.
>>710208395
Fucking retard
From the moment they stop being an embryo they are full capable of feeling pain
Thats why newborns FUCKING CRY
THEYRE IN PAIN
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>>710208152
/thread
>>710207821
It is not experiencing thought, which is the main reason why its ethical. We are sparing it from a bad existence.
Also agreed. Going insane from no exposure to anything new is a good punishment.
>>710207007
only right answer
>>710207804
A 6-month fetus is full of potential, but potential is not the same as value. Look at all the brilliant manchildren on this board with plenty of potential but nothing to show for it. Should we go out of our way to hurt them? No.
But if they get a free steam game, well, that's more than they should have hoped for. The same is true for a baby.
Life is a gift, but someone always has to pay for a gift. Zygotes have slightly better odds than rolling dubs of making it to birth. You don't feel bad for all the scrubs who roll singles, so don't feel bad for "all those babies that could have been born"
Your rejection of the fundamental fragility of life is because you feel that you could have been aborted, and you are scared that you might have never existed. It fills you with dread and you can't take it.
But don't worry, by making it this far, you have effectively rolled dubs, and it's common courtesy to check 'em.
>>710199388
Check em.
Government should build a facility where instead of aborting the baby, the facility will take care of the baby and turn it into ubermensch that will serve the for the glory of the republic.
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>>710207904
I've been watching fullmetal alchemist lol. I'm just another faggot.
>>710208161
No. But it's become all too acceptable to do it, even to go so far as to hate unborn children and act as if they aren't even human in the first place, and it's ridiculous(FETUSES ARE GRUBS WERE JUST LIONS KILLING GRUBS REEEE). It's just become so matter of fact, and it really shouldn't be.
Feels bad man.
WOMEN CANT FART. IT HAS BEN SCIENTIFICLY PROVEN HAVE YOU OR A LOVED ONE ABORTED A CHILD? IF SO YOU DID THE WORLD AFAVOR BY BERIDDING THE EARTH OF ONE LESS BREAST FEEDING CUNT WHO WILL ONEDAY BECOME AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT (WERE LOOKING AT YOU MEXICO)
>>710207877
Wrong again. If you bothered to read this thread, you'd know I value hapiness and satisfaction in the lives of others including myself. Would a white trash or poor nigger be satisfied with their lives if they had a shitty existance? No.
I don't believe in god or religion. Doesn't mean I have no moral code. I won't shoot/kills something that has elaborate thought, memories and connections to multiple people, something a fetus does not have.
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>>710208873
Weeb faggot gets his moral authority from a show with a fucking robot and half robot midget who study a form of science that literally can not work.
Shocking.
>>710207896
Ok you religious cuck. You can go back to church now, thinking humans have a higher existence and aren't animals that evolved from and are still in an alpha predator type of world.
>>710206867
No. That is what jail is for. You create destruction and anarchy if you are going to say
>Welllllll, though he murdered him, I think it's better for society
You can raise the question of 'What about murdering Hitler?' No, he should face life in prison.
You do have the right of self defense too.
I don't want to get too far into this because it drives off from the issue- is abortion murder. Which, yes, it is.
>>710208924
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>>710208277
Fetuses are a separate organism with unique DNA and independent life processes from the moment they're conceived. They aren't anyone's property, you fucking mong.
John Oliver does a great segment on the subject
https://youtu.be/DRauXXz6t0Y
>>710208773
>A 6-month fetus is full of potential
A 6 month fetus is basically a person. They have higher brain functions at 22 weeks. This should be the only standard used in determining whether a fetus can be aborted.
>Life is a gift
No it's not. It's a fact. And it's cold that way.
>Zygotes have slightly better odds than rolling dubs of making it to birth.
You have it backwards: about 15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. So the ones that roll dubs are the miscarriages.
>>710209185
love this nig
>>710208924
Right. You're essentially a hedonist, and moral relativist. Therefore, you cannot be convinced that something is bad if you already consider it acceptable. It's not that you don't have principles or morals; it's that they're relative.
>>710208004
Actually, it kind of is. Getting them to stop a corrupt cycle, or giving them time and a chance to improve their lives is better then letting the wheel spin.
>>710209132
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>>710207592
I can say abortion is untheithcal because it is murder. That has nothing to do about reincarnation, moron.
I take it you are O.K is someone is having a shitty life that they should just commit sudoku/suicide?
>>710208773
>Look at all the brilliant manchildren on this board with plenty of potential but nothing to show for it. Should we go out of our way to hurt them? No.
Truefax, on the typical IQ test I score about 175 but I'm 28, currently unemployed, live with my parents, have no education outside of what the fine public schools of the USA can teach and eat bad food despite knowing my obesity is killing me. I have plenty of potential, but I am utilizing none of it.
>>710199388
They say women can do whatever they want with their bodies, but a fetus is NOT a part of them, so they should have their own right to live
>>710208641
>We are sparing it from a bad existence.
Then it is also reasonable to kill a newborn baby if it is going to have a bad existence, right?
>>710209402
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>>710208451
Alright, so pretty much you're saying that you should punish two parents, or a single mom who made a mistake for, well, making a small mistake that our instincts tell us to do. Then, in a world where those instincts are bad, we should accept responsibility for it, instead of adding our own thing?
I think that personal accountability is good. Unless it doesn't do anything for anyone. Like in this case. The woman is technically being accountable by getting an abortion: Sparing a child from a bad life and letting the mother grow financially until she's ready for a legit child.
>>710207603
>Bacteria are living things. Plants are living things. Animals are living things. The humans that lead miserable lives so that I can have cheap tea and clothes are living beings. Life eats life. It's not pretty but quit pretending that it's special to be human when there are literally 7 billion of us.
Morality exists for humans alone because humans are the only species capable of comprehending it and of having their own internal concept of morality. Laws enforce morality. The equivalence drawn between humans and bacteria is stupid and irrational. Humans are special. All humans are special. We are capable of metaphysical thought. We are capable of building things in our image. We are capable of using logic, empiricism and the scientific method to understand the universe. It is amazing that I even have to explain this to you, and a testament to just how thorough the globalists' brainwashing has been, to actually convince you that you are a piece of meat and a cog in the globalist machine. You may believe that, but it's not true.
>>710200704
What about all of the children that have already been born that are in orphanages, foster care, homeless, ect? Do those kids not deserve 'potential?' We should focus on the ones already born living instead of 'what could be' when it comes to human life.
>>710208438
So it's ethical to kill Gramps in the nursing home because he can't remember your name?
>>710209536
Yes. I would say no. I wouldn't suffer just so that I can live. That's fucked. My view is that a fetus is a potential child, there are no souls or shit. When you abort a potentially bad fetus, you are giving a potential child a chance to have a better existance.
>>710209525
A famous violinist is dying and needs to be hooked up to you for 9 months (and no one else) to live. Do you have an obligation to do it? No
>>710209299
Stopping a cycle of behavior by killing their children isn't the goal, though. It's best of they correct their behavior.
>>710209637
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WHY AM I STILL GETTING HATE? OH I KNOW BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL RELIGIOUS ASSHOLES WHO SHOULD ALL BURN IN WHATEVER FUCKING RECYCLE BIN YOUR RESPECTIVE DEITY HAS FOR YOU. ALSO FUCK THE JEWS AND THEIR SEXY POTATO PEELING WOMAN AND THEIR FREEDOM TO PROCREATE
>>710209573
My friend we think too differently to convince each other. I have grown up thinking like >>710207603, no way I will be convinced otherwise.
>>710199388
>I'm a conservative
>>710209557
Maybe I'll take some personal accountability and firebomb an abortion clinic someday for murdering babies?
Maybe not though. Wish there was a way I could know who you are, maybe I'd blow your brains out. I'd be doing the right thing after all, you're a disgusting person who can't be held accountable for your actions. Yeah sex is natural, you just CANT help yourself from doing it? So I guess rape is natural too, let's all rape each other?
You need a quick clean 38 to the forehead, the world needs less people like you. a 38 is too good for you really.... I'd give you a 9mm but your squealing might keep someone up all night and they'd be late for work. Work, that thing you never do, you know of it?
>>710209808
We don't think "differently." You are wrong, and I am at least closer to being right than I am to being wrong.
This is the pitfall of moral relativism. You probably don't believe in the concept of "truth."
>>710209573
Elephants mourn their dead. We're not that special.
OP here, you didn't do your job. I'm unconviced, no one's views have changed and I understand why. We are all morally different. This is all almost completely unchangeable. Someone who values potential life and human satisfaction will not see the same as a religious person who believes that god thinks that abortion is hideous. Its just too bad that Hillary is winning and that you all failed miserably. Abortion is here, and it will stay.
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>>710208395
>Disagree
You say that but didn't actually justify it. You only rationalized the decision behind abortion, not your disagreement.
>>710208540
>Thats why newborns FUCKING CRY
the girls cry because they weren't born as boys, the boys cry because the jew stole part of their benis
amidoinitrite?
>>710209692
>strawman
No, simply not remembering a name is not the same as loss of higher brain function. If he was a vegetable, and there was no way for him to regain his mental abilities, by all means, pull the plug. Because he's already dead, as a person.
>>710209694
>When you abort a potentially bad fetus, you are giving a potential child a chance to have a better existance.
?
I am lost because if you abort it, it won't have an existance. Furthermore, who are you to say the fetus is going to have a bad life it's born? That is completely arbitrary.
>>710209970
Nice bait. When you don't have any arguments left lol.
Im against abortion! But if your going to have one, in the second trimester on, you still have to deliver the baby, they just kill it before they pull it out! Its gross, not right in my opinion. I am a Mom, I got prego young. Its been hard but I am happy with my decision. Best advice, take steps to prevent pregnancy if you don't want it! period!
>>710209989
Cute talking point. It's like you read my post at all.
>We are capable of metaphysical thought. We are capable of building things in our image. We are capable of using logic, empiricism and the scientific method to understand the universe.
Elephants can do all this stuff, huh? They have a concept of morality that each individual elephant enforces on its own actions, even when no one is looking?
You're a liberal idiot.
>>710210043
>>710210202
Ah, so the concept of someone murdering you is ridiculous huh?
>>710204624
>abortion is bad cuz i say it is
Give us a reason, faggot.
>You have a responsibility now
No they don't that's why abortion is a thing.
>ethical to kill a born child
Fuckin guy you literally quoted argued against that. You could read your own fucking post and you'd be proven wrong.
How does it feel being the dumbest cunt on 4chan fuckhead, die
>>710209056
Hey, I'm comfortable enough to not pretend that I came up with a good idea.
How about you? What's your moral authority? Have you even read philosophy or even the bible? Have you ever helped bring a life into this world, saved one or taken one?
You don't live in the world and you act like you know anything about it because it's cozy for you to pretend that the posturing of some apologists who are the literal cucks of the thinking world means you're different from the grass you walk on.
Learn some humility. Learn what it means to care for life, to be responsible for life. You'll barely have time to get mad at what other people are doing if you're doing it right.
>>710210179
Ah, your view is different from mine.
1. I see fetuses as potential life. When it dies, it hasn't become full on life aka a human yet. Rip baby. When you abort, you can trade a potentially bad existance for a better one.
2. Abortion was made/is best for the hordes of white trash and niggers that are burdened with babies. Its also for, you know, the single and teen moms who can't have kids without breaking their chances at good schools or lives.
>>710199388
A fetus is factually a child and a living human being, there is absolutely no scientific basis for the current, "life begins at first breath" standard.
Late term abortion is murder and denying that is comparable to believing the earth is 6000 years old.
>>710210261
Will you personally take responsibility for unadopted children. If that answer to that is no, you have no business infringing others rights to decide whether or not to have a child.
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>>710210311
When you live in the UK pretty much. Go google UK murder rates. Lets see 1. how big they are/what the chances are and 2. how you'll smuggle a gun into my country after tracking my IP.
/b/ of all fucking places should have no moral objection to fucking abortion. Most of the users here are actually probably lucky is was illegal for so long otherwise the activity on this site would be nonexistent.
>>710210314
Kek thank you anon
>>710210311
No, the concept of you being anything but a posturing pussy with no life experience and nothing but anger to fill the void is pretty much what is becoming evident.
>>710210359
I'm a Iraq war veteran, I like to think I know more about the value of life than some anime watching neet on the internet.
>you don't live in the world and you act like blah blah blah....
Yeah man I've not watched the cartoons you've watched, how the fuck would I know anything?
>>710207931
>>710210387
The issue isnt about when life begins or doesnt begin. The issue is libertarian, about the rights to your own life. A famous violinist is dying and needs to be hooked up to you for 9 months (and no one else) to live. Do you have a moral obligation to do it? No. it would make you an outstanding citizen to do it but you have no moral obligation.
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>>710210396
>infringing others' rights
Are you referring to the baby's right to life, or some other right?
>>710209808
Think about this: if every middle class human in America went over to Africa and physically gave the starving African kids food or money, and sent its military to arrest/dissipate the idiot scum that is harming people, the problem would vanish. You might argue that this is not possible to mobilize. But if everyone very simply stopped believing that poor people are poor out of necessity, and contributed a share of their wealth/ability to those who need it, the problem would be solved. At some point, some confused fool convinced more confused fools that we cannot save all the poor. Yet, we have never tried
>>710210558
Thank you for your kind words of defence anon
>>710210471
You're very self important you know that yeah? You can't even understand what I'm saying. You don't mind taking a life as long as it's not your own.
Whatever you do make sure you're the one who judges who's worthy of living, would suck if someone else had to make the decision for you.
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IM GOING TO SING A SONG: FUCK THE POLICE COMING STRAIGHT FROM THE UNDER GROUND........................................*trails off*
>>710210105
Let's say I'm just in a coma but not brain dead. No one is sure when I will wake up but they know I have have the ability to regain consciousness. How am I any different than a fetus?
The fact that I may have had memories doesn't really matter. Those could be lost but I have the chance to make new ones just like a fetus may have a chance to make memories. I don't see why it matters that a fetus doesn't have prior memories.
>>710210511
>lol so edgy n dark we r legun expect us
>am i rite fellow /b/asterds?
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>>710210558
Missed the point, I'm not surprised.
>>710210314
Did you even read my post at all? I gave you the reason that it's murder.
Yes, the parents are completely responsible for their child, wtf how are you going to argue that they aren't? Everyone is resopnsible for their actions.
I literally implied that it was unethical to kill a born child.
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>>710210681
well, you see, western society is lazy. It would be extremely difficult, yes, but possible. Also, we'd have to part with our precious money for that, big no no.
>>710210673
A famous violinist is dying and needs to be hooked up to you for 9 months (and no one else) to live. Do you have an obligation to do it? No. Should the government force you to do it? Of course not. The decision should be left to the individual who will face the complications.
In order for a country to move forward and thrive it needs a reproduction rate of 2.1. Right now the US is underneath that mark..So it's considered a dieing nation...You already see the huge effects of that taking hold today...That's why everything is going belly up in the next 10 years..The US killed off there own next generation in a ever aging population.
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>>710210570
Yes, you learn more about life from experiencing art (most anime is shit, some is good), and from living in the world than by being a tool. Sorry for assuming you had no experience with life and death, but you're not the only one.
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>>710210753
Because your family and friends have a moral obligation to help you for all the times you've helped them. They've helped you feel satisfied, and you've helped them.
They owe you. We don't owe a fetus. Would you agree to a trade deal in which you'd lose stuff, and the other would gain? No. This is the western, consumer, capitalist world anon, and fetuses for those in poverty are like tumors.
>>710210375
>a bad existence for a better one
There
Is
No
Better
One
Why? Because it does not have an existence if you kill it, retard. Abortion is not a fucking trade.
If you are trying to argue about reincarnation, then I need evidence about that first.
>>710210886
We have a healthy immigration flow to counterbalance the lack of a stable birthrate.
Besides, we should think about caring for the children that are already here in living in despotism first
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>>710210647
If there was no one else that could do it and you refused, you should feel bad if he dies because you could have prevented it.
Also, carrying a baby around is a lot less inconvenient than carting around a fully grown violinist. Just imagine the racket that would be.
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>>710210861
Your response is another false moral equivalence. The violinist is capable of making her own decisions. The baby is not. How can a baby consent to "pulling the plug" on its life?
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>>710210841
We are lazy because we think there's no way to help. We are convinced that we can't save everyone. Watching African kids on tv gives us bad feels. We don't act on those feels because we think there's no point. We have to undo this way of thinking.
>>710210974
>than by being a tool
Yeah, what's that mean exactly? Sniveling little shit, you think you can judge me? Do you understand now why you agree with abortion. You have your view and everyone else is wrong. That you would call a veteran a tool is disgusting. That you would think it's ok to murder so long as you're not the one being murdered is disgusting. But you'll never get that I guess, so please... go enjoy another cartoon.
>>710211038
I don't see reincarnation as a thing. Until a baby is born, it is potential life. Potential life for me can be bad or good in the future. A non aborted baby to a bad family that can grow but wont with that baby? Bad. A baby that goes to a family that has grown instead of being burdened by a child? Good.
If that doesn't make sense, to me it is a trade. The value of life goes up: The mother/father have better lives. A child gets a better life. Oh no, another child died for that. Guess what? It wasn't a child: It was tiny hunk of flesh with no thought and a bad future. How awful.
>>710210647
If I'm the reason the violinist needs to be hooked up to me, I do have a moral obligation to them.
It is absolutely an ontological issue, taking a human life in cold blood is wrong.
You're right, it is a libertarian issue about an individual's right. Saying killing someone is acceptable because it makes life easier for you is ridiculous.
If you force someone into life, you dont have the right to kill them just because you regret the decision later.
SUISEIKEKI IS USED GOODS! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED! USED!
>>710211118
You didnt answer my questions. Do you have a moral obligation to do it and should the goverment force you to do it?
Also the degree of the complications is nonconsequential. Lets say the violinist will make up for it by paying you and other accommodations.
ALRIGHT ANONS IT IS THE END 340 POSTS AND WE ARE ON PAGE 8. IT WAS NICE ARGUING WITH YOU, EVEN THOUGH YOU RELIGIOUS ANTI CHOICE CUCKS ARE SHIT AT THIS. HILLARY CLINTON = ABORTION. IT WILL BE AND IS A THING. TOO BAD FOR YOU.
>>710200704
>Killing it - and yes, we are committing murder, there is no way around that
There is, actually. Its simply not murder. Also, miscarriage is not accidental death or suicide, and jizzing on the floor is not a holocaust.
The idea that "life begins at conception" is an arbitrary philosophical opinion. Its just as valid to decide it begins before that, or after it. Its not even a potentially factual statement - no one could ever "prove" it, no matter what they do.
Since it is arbitrary and, most importantly, HEAVILY influcenced by a person's religion, any free society must leave the question of abortion up to individuals.
>>710209132
So my tax dollars can go and pay for him? Fuck that. Off him.
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Abortion is murder. We simply have decided that we are okay with it. The children are dying anyway. If there were no poor people out there, there would be no justification for abortion.
>>710211175
True which is why you should assume (for the purpose of this thought experiment) that both the baby and the violinist want to live. Now it doesnt really matter that one of them cant decide this on its own
>>710210861
This is not only a false equivalency, but a stupid one.
Part of being intelligent is being able to admit your mistakes and learn from them. There's no logical justification for late term abortion.
>>710211311
Ok. We'll say the day before the operation, the mother decides she wants an abortion. It is still potential life by your definition. Is it ok for her to abort?
>>710211435
>HILLARY CLINTON = ABORTION
NO BUT SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ONE
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Because it's more fun to kill babies once they're out
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