.
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
.
Go back to Moscow Boris.
>>768073153
OK, Skippy.
>>768073229
That’s komrade skippy to you
>>768072108
Stay triggered Trumpies.
One day your president won't look like a complete failure.
>>768072108
Obama sent them what we've always sent them; being our employees and all.
Good luck keeping the petrodollar system intact & the economy from collapsing with a stable middle east with no terrorists. Watch the Saudis convert to the petroyuan.
>>768073718
>>768073784
>>768073959
lol, I'm amused as fuck by Trump's trolling.
About as amused as I am by how naive you are to how things really work.
>>768072108
that's funny, I remember bin Laden being sent a bullet through the eye
>>768074083
>>768074208
>>768074217
Yup, any day now, Trump's gonna build that wall & drain that swamp & get rid of them illegals & piss off every single "friend" & business connection he's ever made in the process.
Keep on believing the wrestling storylines are reality & counterarguing with memes, kid.
>>768074492
>>768072108
Bush paid for the terrorists.
Obama had a hard on for Constant drone striking.
>>768074292
oh okay that's a good point
keep sucking trump's cock, let me know how it tastes when Mueller's done talking to him
>>768073513
Yeah, his ratings sure dropped off during his Victory Lap, faggot.
>>768074575
Yup, "I don't understand" covers pretty much everything from your end.
>>768074601
>>768074575
You don't understand much at all, I'd wager.
>>768072108
Both lies.
Idiot.
>>768074686
>>768073513
Fake??
Try this out, nimrod.
>>768074725
This might blow your mind.. but I didn't vote for Trump, Hillary, or Obama.
Good luck with therapy.
>>768073825
>>768074870
>>768074914
>>768074907
>>768074981
>>768074914
Like that's cool and all. And I agree with most of it. But, i still can't afford health care, and on top of it my tax returns are being raped because of that.
>>768074858
>>768075038
>>768075220
Affordable care act, aye?
How's Trump coming along on that?
>>768075323
Don't care
>>768075294
"Citizens?! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
Is that your point?
>>768075397
No you don't.
Nor any other policy.
But he Sure Makes people Angry!! That means He's Your Guy!
SUCK THAT DICK AGAIN
>>768075406
>>768075486
>>768073153
Still better than NY fag
>>768075489
Whatever, Skippy.
>>768072108
Typical lefty meme:
>Donald Trump, more like stupid head
>>768074914
Go to /pol/ faggots.
>>768073718
that is like ...
..."a camp for specially gifted kids", if you know....
>>768072108
We need to revive the fuhrer!!!!! GAS THE JEWISH INSTIGATORS!!!!!
>>768075038
this is even more obvious when watching the US from overseas
>>768074601
>>768075486
Actually, it was Stalin who did that.
He never believed in, or trusted the farmers or sub-proletariat.
>>768072108
Do they pay you or are you just cucked for fun?
>>768076037
>>768073825
The right cant meme
>>768075810
Irrational response.
Typical.
OP, I really and truly wish you were kidding.
>>768076159
>>768073524
And the Russians say we missed/ lost most of our missiles...looks like a fucking bulls eye to me.
>>768074492
>>768075397
Nancy Pelosi is a gilf id do her
>>768075873
Dems are a kind of strange breed of people. The best part is when they are mad when the government lets you keep more of your money and give less free shit to people. Its also very funny when they get soooo mad at rich people because they serve coffee and feel very strongly that the rich person who created the wealth for the american people gets to keep to much of their money. The whole mindset of a liberal is flawed in logical thought.
All liberals need to know is: everything you believe is nonsense.
Even the gun thing. If you think the government should be able to strip your rights and confiscate the guns then you are the exact reason the 2A exists.
dios mio make america great, papa
>>768077251
>>768072108
Nice try RuskiBot 3000
>>768077369
>>768077251
>>768075107
Decades of promises they couldn't keep, spending money they didn't have for things that didn't work, passing laws that strip away basic rights in a futile attempt to stop anything bad from happening, and always insisting that all they need is just a little more money, or for you to sacrifice just a few more rights.
Modern politics in a nutshell.
>>768075323
Doesn't seem to be any more affordable.
>>768072108
That's a Norwegian Naval Strike Missile. Trump never sent that to any terrorist.
>>768077833
Lol what? Bernie literally campaigned on 'the rich people are destroying america' Hillary to a lesser extent. The liberals are the idiots who follow the rich elites who became rich through illegitimate ways and demonize those who created their wealth.
>>768073718
at least most of them look white
>>768078546
OK, Snowflake.
>>768074208
As if Obama had anything to do with the SEAL operation. I dare bet he would have called the whole thing off if he thought he could.
>>768074858
I don't see any proof of collusion in your little poster, loser. Busting people on process crimes is chicken shit, and indicates more than ever how rotten to the core the DC bureaucracy has become.
>>768074870
Great, you voted for someone who had zero chance of winning, you showed us....
>>768078501
we also have a gated cul-de-sacs, barbed wire in the walls, fences in the backyard and all windows because mexicans in general are shitty people you can't trust
>>768077251
You ever wonder if threads like this are just a couple Russians trolls feeding each other?
>>768078701
That always puzzled me. The media immediately jumped on the whole Obama got Bin Laden story, but he didn't initiate any the programs, have any significant role in how it played out, or anything else that would justify that claim. He was just sitting in the seat when it happened.
>>768079004
> everything is Russians
Honestly, I'm more inclined to think you're the troll.
>>768078982
Even better.. I didn't vote, because the Candidates sucked. All of them sucked. Trump Also sucked.
None of them deserved that position.
The winner out of a bunch of retards is still a retard, man.
>>768075486
that's why the USSR was not socialist after Stalin
>>768072108
Didn't Obama use drones a lot?
>>768079126
Had he used his position for good.. which I don't expect most people would be capable of, would have been neat to see.
>>768074914
Believing in junk science sorely lacking evidence, and making fakes like algore rich, who give a rip about the failed institution of marriage, the stats on illegal immigrants aren't good - they take more than they produce. That is not me talking, it's your own liberal federal bureacracy. Late term abortion is baby killing, that is nothing to be proud of. Prevent mass shootings of white kids but somehow presiding over record black on black crime in liberal run cities. No one dies because they can't afford healthcare you moron. Because you saw it on some fictional Michael Moore movie doesn't make it so. Try developing a brain.
>>768079004
obviously, since americans are unable to create political satire, just the fuel to it
>>768079105
That's a stupid image, but I agree with your voting philosophy.
Fuck the candidates we're forced to pick between, vote for anyone else. It's not like it'll make a difference. Thinking your vote matters is like thinking buying 1 lottery ticket will cover your retirement.
>>768072108
>dronestrikes.jpg
This isn't even bait anymore. This is just a sad attempt and propaganda.
>>768076037
You are more than welcome to never visit.
>>768079202
If you're suggesting that your statement precludes mine, I open the floor for you to elaborate.
Fill me in.
>>768072108
Trump is a kike loving idiot. If you still support him after today you are a race traitor and deserve to be gassed.
>>768079249
Only after he blessed them with his Nobel Peace Prize
>>768079280
>Try developing a brain.
That's the antithesis of Liberalism.
>>768076357
Nice way to start a meme - with total bastardization of English. I don't have a problem with what he says 90% of the time. That is a lot more than I can say for Bush, Clinton, or Obama.
>>768074858
Saying things doesn't make it so
>>768079271
Lenin was like Marx, too idealistic, I doubt he could have make it work, even if would have lived another couple of years, eventually Stalin would topple him and things would go as in our timeline
>>768079426
>>768079352
The count of the vote is not the thing.
Were the nation as a majority to note vote because, "No. I'm not signing my name to them, they are fools. Where are the real candidates?"
This election should have been flatly rebuked as half baked and insulting.
>>768079596
no u
>>768079520
>>768078546
Is there a point here? You are stating a simple fact that none of us have a problem with.
>>768079520
I think that with some genuine modern ingenuity we could have a functional and prosperous socialist influenced system.. were it lead by technology, and not the whims of man.
But then that probably turns into skynet and terminators in 50 years.. which would be a fucking mess, too.
>>768079622
"None of the above".
Brewster's Millions is surprisingly wise for a goofball, dated comedy
>>768079802
Have you seen how politics works? Because that will never happen, because that's not how politics works. Just like socialism will never work because that's not how people work.
>>768079105
Edgy. KYS FFS
>>768079802
socialism is a nice idea, but it can't work, humans are just not like that, I agree, it could only work if someone forced us to do act like that, and it would eventually lead to the AI to get tired about our lack of cooperation and it would just kill us off probably
NO MORE JEW WARS
>>768079930
Even if people were forced to do that, it wouldn't work because people would be miserable.
>>768079802
I refer you to Animal Farm. Throw AI in the story, and it will still end the same. Socialism in all its forms is antithetical to human nature. It will NEVER work.
>>768079973
AMERICA FIRST FUCK THE KIKES
>>768080169
That's the reason why capitalism works, and why people hate it. Because it's designed to work with people and how they actually are, not to some imagined ideal of people behaving exactly like you want to them to behave when you were in kindergarten.
>>768079036
Actually, he really did go out of his way to kill bin Laden. The US had an agreement with Pakistan that we would notify their government when we're about to conduct a raid, and every time we tried to get him he'd just slip away at the last minute. At one point Obama decided to go against the agreement and send in ST6 without telling Pakistan, and that was the time they got him.
>>768079833
Had to look this one up, hadn't heard of it.
But yeah. Essentially.
Media is too hype? Process is too provocative and not meaningful enough? Just don't feed the noisy troll machine.
Trouble is, I tell one candidate No, and a totally unrelated team takes that as a sign that they're right. ..that ain't healthy.
Sadly, neither their wisdom or millions saved John Candy or Richard Pryor. F
>>768080283
I knew Pakistan was pissed, but the U.S. had such a history of violating sovereign nations' territories at that point I didn't think it was particularly exceptional. But if so, he gets a little credit.
>>768072108
Obama killed more nother fuckers with drone strikes than trump's admin has. Lol, fucking morons.
>>768079280
>Believing in junk science sorely lacking evidence
All the evidence shows that climate change is real dumbass
>No one dies because they can't afford healthcare you moron
Uh, are you fucking serious dude, holy shit
>>768080283
That is not entirely correct, and even if you want to give the dolt credit, his only interest in getting Osama was as a political stunt. I have zero faith his intentions would be honorable, such is the nature of a fake like Obama.
>>768080274
yeah capitalism fits human nature like a glove, essentially all the evils of capitalism are the evils in human nature
>>768080453
Because they all crawled back in their caves when they realized the Boss had taken the reigns. When a real leader is in power, everyone chills the eff out.
>>768080582
Evils like keep what you earn? Engage in calculated risk to make a profit? Improve your lot in life along with that of your family? When was the last time an altruist invented anything of use?
>>768079885
You're right there, and I agree.. that is Not how people work.
Which is why I said technology.. not the whims of man(?) would regulate it.
Actual pragmatism that the right can enjoy, with a system in place to not people wage slaves.
Folks will still take on community roles if they don't work. Good things can still happen with people's free time that isn't financial exchange.
But.. again.. skynet. No perfect system. I'm with you there.
I also think THIS current system is as big an abortion for reasons of people being more greedy than sensible.
If the system didn't balance the power, then the socialism wasn't in place.. it was not yet functioning. It's like saying flight can't take place because the first designs didn't work.
>>768080709
to not make*
>>768080476
i think climate change is irrefutable but the thing is that we are not 100% sure we're responsible for it, some models even suggest we might slide into a new ice age after a century of temperature rising, we couldn't control, we actually know very little about this
to all of you,
regardless of location or political views
>>768080346
It's one of those older movies that was popular rather than a revered classic, but nonetheless is still far more entertaining and relevant today than many critics' darlings.
You can tell how much debate has degenerated when you say something critical about candidate X, and people immediately attack you under the assumption your support candidate Y. And even if you can get it through their heads that you don't support either candidate, it's only after a long and tiresome "debate" where they keep telling you what you believe, and all you can do is go no no no no no and no. And even when they do come around to the idea that there are people who aren't slaves to the binary polarization, they seem to invariable decide that must be even worse because you're wasting your vote or something.
I don't even.
>>768078034
Not true. Fox talked about Hillary and Obama every day at nausium
>>768080697
i never said that capitalism was a evil, those are obviously good things which, human nature has good sides, i said the bad things in capitalism are a reflection of bad things in human nature
taking things by force, not caring if a deal that benefits you affects others, are not really good things
>>768080754
Whether or not it is, reducing pollution should just make fucking sense.
But then people see more work and costs, and they don't have time for that shit.. which is near sighted, but understandable.
>>768074914
Brainwashed democrats wuv da science, until it hurts their feelings.
>>768073718
A lot of virgins little dick trump supporters to me and the nigger to the top right trying to get in the picture.
>>768080944
lol sex is not in a spectrum healthy individuals have either female or male, what happened to this guy?
>>768080888
It's interesting how Fox News has become this boogeyman on the left. Exactly one mainstream news network swings to the right, and it's the end of the world.
Goodbye and good riddance.
>>768075135
hes struggling to finish this term lol. Poor little dicks love to dream ;)
Why are there so many /pol/ fags so jealous of Obama?
Is it because he's black or a better president?
>>768081102
Money.
>>768080894
Taking things by force isn't capitalism, it's theft. Not caring how the deal affects others is a bit misleading. While it's central to capitalism that everyone is acting in their own interest (that's why it works), it's also central that make exchanges for mutual benefit. If you both sides don't benefit, there's no deal.
>>768081102
He went full Hollywood.
>>768080836
>debate has degenerated
I have a funny feeling about that sentence.
The debate is what we make of it; there are just more of us interested in it on a base level.
The politics themselves are entirely too fucking based and provocative.
People can't handle that job! Trying to do the right thing, and stay the most popular, And stay well paid, and this, that... Too busy. It's unrealistic.
We would never have sent satellites into space, if the engineers had to be elected by popularity.. and constructing social and other infrastructures to maintain a society is not the kind of job you do at a make-up desk (a.k.a. a Vanity).
>>768081147
>News Network
Hahaha
That's a good one.
>>768081361
I swear that if good ole Stephen Hawking had dedicated his last 2 decades of life to research and not writing pop-culture science books we would have an UFT
Dump, an elderly fat fuck who is in debt to russians to the tune of 1 billion dollars. OP is a faggot.
>>768081147
I watch all outlets equally as much to get both sides of the story. However, when I watch Fox I feel like I'm watching a drama show like fucking Mob Wives or some shit.
>"Its true ObAmA made the same mistake TrUmP did but it's okay because tRuMp isn't a pOliTiCian"
>>768081224
I was standing next to a black man during his inauguration in 2008. There was something on his face, not quite pride, but something in that vicinity. That was a good thing, and I thought the country needed that. But now, I'm not sure, because things have gotten so polarized. Still wish Colin Powell had run, after the first Gulf war. Thinks might have been different.
And Obama was a terrible president, passing through another unfunded mandate without either popular or any bipartisan support, supporting a stimulus that was basically 50 years of pent-up pork that Congress hadn't been able to pass leading to one of the slowest economic recoveries in history, QE and ZIRP tanking pensions, and 6 years of doing nothing because he wouldn't reach across the aisle like Clinton and Bush did.
Never been to /pol/, tho.
>>768081436
A lot is the media. The long decline in ratings, the chase for clickbaits and sensationalism, the abandonment of things like the Fairness Doctrine, the corruption of journalistic standards, and many other things have turned the formerly somewhat impartial medium into propaganda and horror stories. Everyone is being told what to think, and kept terrified. With the rise of social media as well, it's turned into tribalism, where two sides are driven by fear and can't do anything except spout prefabricated slogans.
>>768074083
would you like to enlighten us all how the petrodollar system works?
or how about let's make it short - like short wars in Iraq
you're fucking dreaming if we won't use our military to enforce seigniorage and the petrodollar system.
>>768081360
this is when pure capitalism becomes as naïve as communist, companies pollute more because it makes things cheaper, this affects our health but it benefits the factory owners and drives prices down for consumers, how can affected people who are not part of the deal do something? pure capitalism is not evil, but it is not perfect either
>>768081190
You losers never, ever learn.
>>768082348
Trump had already won by late 2015
>>768081615
I've never watched Fox, though I did get around to watching the Outfoxed documentary a few weeks ago. Based on the clips they showed, that one guy, forget his name, was a complete jackass. He cut off people, and completely distorted what they said.
But I do regularly listen to things like NPR, and they do the same thing. They're less abrasive, but any Republicans being interviewed have a hard time saying anything because they're constantly being interrupted by the same repetitive, demanding, and very biased questions. While Democrats are allowed to say whatever they want, praised for it, and get softball questions. What's even more disturbing is the lack of data. They rarely provide hard information, just opinions and sob stories.
So yeah, don't know much about Fox. But the rest of the media seems pretty terrible.
>>768082037
This all stems from ego and emotional based things.. Humans are fragile like that.
Even the strong are weak to their desire for power and influence.
The meek are hungry and have to play along, if they're not so dumb that they want to cause it looks fun.
It's unhealthy. People can't run people. We suck at doing ourselves justice.
Somehow, computers need to do it.. but the people that program it will still need to skew it to profit as it is.. which makes it practically impossible. (Practically being the key word there.)
>>768082323
Those are network externalities, and they're one of the things that markets can't handle.
>>768082037
Good chat, btw.
Hope you're well tonight, anon.
Here's a cute picture of chickens.
>>768082496
I'm not, but thanks.
>>768081147
>It's interesting how Fox News has become this boogeyman on the left. Exactly one mainstream news network swings to the right, and it's the end of the world.
Not that interesting.
For over 100 years American Communists have clearly stated that they were going to take over the schools to indoctrinate the youth and the news sources to control the opinions of the public. Is it really that surprising that the did exactly what they said they would?
Then Fox News pops up and doesn't toe the line. Of course they're outraged.
>>768082409
Remembered his name, the jackass was Bill O'Reilly.
>>768081766
I think the hardest part of convincing someone of opposite ideologies or opinions that your ideas or methods would be best, is the inability to show an alternate reality.
You say he is terrible and we went through a slow recover, I believe and this is based on a economics background, that there would have been no recovery without intervention.
Do I think Colin Powell would have been a good leader? I actually do, but brainlet Bush Jr. kinda used him just so he could play out his middle east fantasy. (two decades counting and we're no better in that region)
As for "reaching across the aisle" that's not true. Like, at all. You had a republican senate that public said they would oppose Obama no matter what, whether he had good ideas or not. That's not working with anyone, and when he did try to work with them. They only offered ultimatums not negotiation points.
Was he perfect? No, of course not. But what did the conservative groups and republicans have to gain after sinking public option? What did that get them? It was the only way they thought they could get health care passed. That was the comprimise. And still they all voted it down, despite it passing.
If anything, public option should have been kept. It would have kept premiums lower for working class people. And allowed sick people a cheaper way to obtain health care with out rising the cost. Along with public option there would have been a central player to negotiate lower medical expenses.
If anything, that fight to kill public option was exactly what made them look the weakest for being helpful to the country.
>>768082670
any economicsfag here that can explain what would happen with a 15hr minimum wage?
>>768082823
I'm an economics guy.
And, well... I could explain it.
There's a few variables.
But, in a majority of the cases, it comes out looking better for the 15/hr people.
>>768082823
Economics is a bullshit pseudoscience.
>>768082823
>>768082930
The people who get the most fucked are small business owners, especially small businessness with <10 employees who run really lean and with employees that are paid minimum wage. they are extremely common (think: practically every single small restaurant in the entire country)
They cant really afford to raise prices (Because that would affect their sales significantly) and they cant really afford to fire staff or cut hours, because they are likely already running nearly as close to the limit as they can.
those business will most likely cut costs like not pay workers comp insurance or other things like that.
>>768082981
Most certainly not entirely.
A dash of pepper on your complex meal is not quite like eating a fist full of just peppercorns.
>>768072108
Hold on a sec. Obama sent equipment to rebels opposing the syrian government. Trump sent missile strike on syrian government. So they both are aiming to achieve the goal of overthriwing legitimate syrian leader. It is bad thing for everyone except Israel, for it is good for them if their neighboring countries are in chaos. Then they are too weak to be a serious competitors for Israel in the middle east. It just goes to show that no matter who is the president of the US, they are total puppets of the yehudim
>>768083038
Yes. I actually want this to happen.
Service industry could be made to serve yourself.
Self sufficiency built into cities most basic consumer function.
>>768083211
This is technically true.
But you can put a simple clause in that states (exception for single owned none franchised businesses)
Bam, no problems now.
>>768083038
>>768083379
What I mean to say is, the job should be $15 and hour if someone has to do it, AND the jobs should be reduced to machine functions.
>>768083414
>exception for single owned none franchised businesses
Corporations turned themselves into living breathing people on paperwork.. Exceptions mean nothing to them.
>>768083257
>Most certainly not entirely.
OK, I kinda agree with that.
Economics 101 had some basic value.
But after that it becomes a steaming pile of shit.
>>768083550
It's not the study of economics that makes it ugly, but the nature of transactions and value among people.
>>768083364
>Obama sent equipment to rebels opposing the syrian government.
By "rebels" you must mean ISIS.
>>768082732
8 years of ZIRP were disastrous to the pensions, QE is a massive tax, and there's a difference between a few necessary measures and a huge bill full of pork not stimulus, and another unfunded mandate, at a time when the economy was fragile. That's on him.
Not sure if Colin Powell would have been good. But it would make for an interesting alt history.
You're completely wrong about reaching across the aisle -- Obama had the bully pulpit, the single largest public stage in all of politics, and all he did was make digs at the other side. And unlike Bush and Clinton, he didn't even invite opposition leaders to the White House. It's true the Republicans were getting more hardened at the time as well, but the President is one who builds bridges, Obama just withdrew and didn't even try. Hell, Trump is working at it harder than Obama did, despite the outpouring of vitriol.
>>768083211
Then they don't deserve to thrive in a capitalist system.
Restaurants are already very narrow margins and a huge risk to get involved in. If food is not priced accordingly and your staff is not well optimized, trained, and paid... you might be looking at only making 300k a year. A restaurant itself might operate in the red even for two years.
Also keep in mind you're referencing food service and restaurants. Two different industries technically. As tipped jobs are under different wage guidelines, and would have nothing to do with fast food non tipped jobs. But as America shifts from a production industry to a service industry, the majority of people still need a living wage...to you know, live. It's not rocket surgery.
>>768083541
I would love to see the legal argument McDonald's or Burger King makes to say they are not a Franchise. That's their entire doctrine. Lol.
>>768083541
No, they didn't. You're oversimplifying an issue to so far you're just wrong.
>>768083665
Isis is one of many rebel groups opposing Assad, and not much worse than the others
>>768083867
Except it wouldn't be McDs or BK making the argument, it would be the franchise owner who bought themselves a store, licensed the brand, and is trying to make ends meet.
>>768083451
>What I mean to say is, the job should be $15 and hour if someone has to do it
One problem with that is nobody is going to hire some high school kid for $15/hr.
One thing I've always looked for on resume's is work experience prior to age 18.
Send me 2 kids, fresh out of college, same degree, same grades........I'll always hire the one who had a job in HS over the one who never worked a day in his life through HS and college.
If you've graduated with good grades, in a useful field, and can't find a job... It's probably because you lost out to the kid who mopped floors in HS.
>>768072108
So, Trump sent more money towards terrorists?
>>768083816
>Then they don't deserve to thrive in a capitalist system.
Spoken like a true Socialist.
>>768083733
>8 years of ZIRP were disastrous to the pensions
ZIRP was great for buying a house, cashing out the CD's and investing into the stock market at the time. I was able to flip two houses, and make back 4 times what I put into the stock market with in 6 years. That doesn't sound like a bad economy to me.
I won't dismiss your point though, because yes people that just waited for things to work for them got screwed, because not everyone can see the clear writing on the walls.
For example, I already started pulling money out of the stock market, and I'm going to buy one more house before the rates spike again.
My point being, there is good and bad in all major changes, it's the worst and best that can be avoided / sought after for each era.
And not only would McCain or Powell made a better president than Bush, but we probably wouldn't have even been in an economic crisis if you think about it. We also wouldn't have 70 trillion missing from unpaid sand adventure part II.
And if that were the case, Obama would still be a Senator - he was popular and won BECAUSE he was so outspoken and critical of both Bush and the Republicans leader up to the wars and the economic crash.
>>768083816
If you're okay with killing economic growth. Because the growth in both jobs and money comes from small businesses, and they're already being priced out of the market.
And the economy isn't transitioning to a service based economy. It's mostly there already, and it's not really a transition. Because all those old manufacturing jobs aren't turning into good service industry jobs, they're mostly just vanishing because of automation and outsourcing.
>>768084377
Capitalism System = Socialism
You just went full retard bro.
>>768084527
Minimum wage is Socialist, Dipshit.
>>768084380
The problem with ZIRP isn't your cheap house, it's pensions. Because pensions are funded based on optimistic growth projections, and ZIRP kept the returns near zero. That's not just a lost decade of cumulative interest (which is bad enough), but they had to start eating into capital. There's no way to recover from that. It also helps the government hide the real debt, because it made borrowing more money almost free, which allowed them to increase the unfunded liabilities to staggering levels. Once interest rates rise, the cost to service that debt will be staggering.
>>768084478
>If you're okay with killing economic growth.
Incorrect, it actually does quite the opposite.
If you do not have enough to pay someone under 20 dollars an hour. Then you either have a very niche shop that you can work yourself. Do volunteer work. Do tip based work. Or have a failing business.
None of those, are healthy business models for an economic growth.
>>768084380
Also disagree on why Obama won. Frankly, he won for three reasons 1) he was an almost total unknown. Nobody knew what he actually believed in, so he was a blank slate on which everyone could pin their hopes (his slogan was apropos) 2) he was black. A lot of people thought it was a good idea. 3) The Chicago machine. He wasn't a widely known, but he came from a background that understood the apparatus of government, and he was very good at things like working the mailing lists. He also came across as presidential. A bit stiff and reserved maybe, but that's generally not a terrible thing.
>>768084749
Go back and take economics 101 again
>>768084623
>Minimum wage is Socialist, Dipshit.
I'm gonna have to make a comment on this.
You do not know what socialism is. I can't even with this sentence. This must be the most backwards education a human has every received, good lord.
>>768084661
Yes, that was my point. In 2008, I cashed out every single CD I had. I told my mom to take a penalty and cash out all her retirement.
If in 2009 you didn't take what was left of your CD's and IRAs and put them into bonds or stocks. That's not on the government to tell you how to invest. (If anything it's on investment houses that fucked people over so they could stay up.)
Pensions are not funded on optimism. They're funded on mutual funds. And the results those mixed bags have USUALLY. Most people's pensions were fucked (pre-Obama). They had over 2 years to do something with that fucked money, before he came into power or even passed anything. If 'zirp' was so detrimental, then every person had plenty of time to change what investments they made, we've had zirp conditions since fucking 9/11 almost. And officially since 2008. That's 10 years.
If anything, we should VERY gradually raise the interest rates by an 1/8 every quarter. Until we're at +2% now, then let it sit, adjust accordingly economically.
>>768084914
You mean teach you economics 101?
I would, but you'd probably fail my class.
>>768072108
This is just silly. Haven't read the thread and won't. Obama blow a shit ton up. He was all about those drone strikes. Trump has a long way to go to catch up.
>>768085286
We're onto economics right now.
>>768085264
You're arguing that small businesses need to culled. I'm pretty sure you can't teach shit.
>>768085206
Minimum wage is socialist, in the loose sense that people normally use. Real socialism is something pretty specific, but if western democracies are considered socialist, so is the minimum wage.
>>768084251
>nobody is going to hire some high school kid for $15/hr
Nobody would pay anyone squat unless they were required to.
>>768084861
You make some good points man.
However, he was known as an early contender, for his books. His taxpayer funded but successful negotiations with tracking nuclear materials from old soviet states.
His very vocal opposition to the Iraq wars.
And especially his persistent observation about how fragile our economy was, and where it was possibly headed.
He also could have just gotten really lucky, and was freaking out about like 6 random things, and 5 of them all happened to come to pass. Making him look capable of predicting the trends. But he did give some good speeches on why he voted against war powers.
Just wish he did away with the bullshit Patriot Act and passed Public Option for Healthcare. I would have more respect for him if he had done that.
>>768085562
More importantly, If they don't qualify, don't hire em'. That's still valid today.
No one with a great education wants to work a non-commision/tip service job.. but if it was 15 an hour, maybe they would.
I say this from FL, which is a right to work state, so I have this context from my side about bosses just firing people who suck right on the spot.
>>768085680
True, at 15 / hr, it's more competitive. And you'll have a better group of people applying that can do the job more efficiently.
Cities often experience this, and part of the reason urban areas have higher wages. The downside being a higher cost of living.
But 19k a year versus 38k a year for the difference of 24 cents in a sandwich is often worth it.
>>768085206
We've had near-ZIRP conditions for 2 decades, and the unfunded liabilities go back much further. That wasn't Obama, but it wasn't until the policy came into place that it basically completely bottomed out. And you're assuming people have active control over their pensions, and everyone should be a financial manager, which wouldn't even be enough because a lot of the professionals were giving bad advice. And pensions certainly are funded on optimism. California, for instance, has only 68% funded their future obligation, which would require staggering future economic growth to sustain (and they're not even close to the worst).
>>768085401
>You're arguing that small businesses need to culled.
I am not, I run a small business. And would never suggest such a thing. However, if you are a failing business, it does NOT help the economy of your town.
I've seen millionare business owners let their places go into complete shambles. Instead of taking a pay loss. They let the business suffer. They bullshit about payroll. They take every dime they can from their business. Then let it shutter, and sell it.
This does not help.
However, if someone is truly struggling to stay afloat I feel bad, I do. But if you open "Bill's Heavy Coat Emporium!" in rural Mexico. And dont' have money to pay people to run it. Then you can't say oh... well if only I had slave labor, this business would be great!
>>768085622
I read his first book, but not his second. It was an attempt to humanize him, and didn't really lay out what he believed or how he would govern. I got more of that from Rand Paul's book, which was pretty shallow as well (very repetitive).
Don't remember him talking about the economy much, I may have to look at that again. But his opposition to the wars felt late (like his later support for gay marriage), he never closed Gitmo, the wars kept dragging on, drone strikes went thru the roof, and he didn't just fail to overturn the Patriot Act as you noted, he abused the fuck out of it (all that NSA shit).
>>768085936
Which is why State Pensions are a poorly designed and bad idea. You can see that with Pennsylvania as well. A ton of state employees great pension, but politically managed does not make it well managed.
Pensions, work best for companies that produce and budget for them. Steel industry for example had great pensions. Even after they collapsed and were no longer viable, those pensions kept paying out. Government / Teaching pensions- they rely on some crazy economic schemes similar to SS, but they're not as big as the US government. And obviously can not handle it.
Realistically, pensions should be diminished (*still have it but a fraction of what they are) and retirements should be switched over to matching IRA's, stocks(if company is listed), and even 401k's (despite those issues).
Every retirement portfolio should consist of at least 4 accounts. 2 through your work, and 2 personal. And they should obviously be heavily diverse from one another. Almost like a gap if one drops to 50% the other 3 will make up for it.
This is what they should teach in senior year of fucking highschool. How to survive. Basic if you're taught it.
Sorry about tangent.
>>768085778
Cheers guys.
This thread has been sensible, and civil.
..respectively.
Thanks for the contributions.
You russian sloviakian kids need to stop playing with memes and head the fuck to >>>/pol/ this shit doesn't belong on /b.
>>768085985
That's the argument you're making. You're saying small businesses are having it too easy, and making them pay more will just get rid of the deadwood.
>>768086530
peel out >>>/pol/ faggots
>>768086467
If you've paid attention to this thread.. you'd realize we're actually being way more civil than /pol/ could ever dream to be.
>>768086616
>>768086616
Propaganda out of any of your mouths is still propaganda. No one cares faggot.
>>768086382
Some of the states are shakier, but that's because there are so many of them. It's the federal ones that are going to take everything down with them when they collapse.
My basic problem is they're a Ponzi scheme. They need to stop that, because it creates a sense of unjustified entitlement (it's my money! -- no it's not, you're stealing from your kids), as well as dependency.
You're absolutely right about politically managed pensions. That's why the unfunded liability stuff is so crazy -- they promised everything, but then they went and spent the money on other things they thought would get them reelected, and then forced the CBO to cook the books and not add what they promised to pay out in social security and medicare to the debt. And decades of close to zero interest rates is what let them get away with it, because they could just keep borrowing for (almost) free.
>>768086408
Occasionally happens in the wee hours
>>768086856
Fag
