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Should abortion be legal or not?

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Should abortion be legal or not?
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>>707236515

even if "legal", abortion is murder
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Keep it legal
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>>707236723
>even if "legal", abortion is murder
war = murder of millions to keep oil prices down? ok
abortion = murder of one
way not ok
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>>707236723
but how is abortion murder? Were litterally talking about someone who practically doesnt even exist.
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>>707236515
So long as it's connected to the mother it is an extension of her. It is her right and only her right to do as she pleases. In other words it should be legal, but there should be consulting done first with the mother to figure out a suitable outcome.
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>>707236515
Abortion should be illegal.
No sound biologist will ever agree that the life of an individual organism doesn't begin at it's conception. The right to live is a prerequisite for all other rights, so that right should be persevered even at the cost of all others.

Not only is a fetus a human life, but the protection of that life must take precedence over the protection of the woman's control of her own body.
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>>707236723
Next thing you know I wont be able to cum anywhere other then in a futile woman because otherwise I will be murdering millions of potential babies.
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>>707237122
In other words you are saying that if I scratch myself and kill thousands of cells, I'm a genocidal muderer.
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>>707236958
This
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>>707236515

Sure... Better kill it before it has consiousness then give it shitty life...
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>>707236515
Like 50 percent of it is the guy who smashed her
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>>707237122
>Not only is a fetus a human life, but the protection of that life must take precedence over the protection of the woman's control of her own body.

Come here so I can rape you and knock you up with a nigger baby and see if you still the same thing.
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>>707236515
I don't care.
Why the fuck should you?
You're still not getting laid.
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>>707237122
With that logic contraceptives should be illegal.
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>>707237257
No. Those cells will never under any circumstance achieve personhood. A fetus will if left alone.

Note that children up to 2 years of age tend to fail tests that we use to measure self-awareness in animals (which is thought of as a big part of personhood).
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>>707237257

As a biomechanical engineer i must agree to this...
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>>707236515
abortion is a hard topic to take a side on, on one hand, I love killing babies, on the other I hate giving women a choice
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>>707237426
Yeah if abortion is preventing niggers I'm cool wid it.
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>>707237491
CONTRAceptive. They stop conception from happening, so no, I don't believe they ought to be illegal.
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>>707237220
>>707237122

This scares me, I genuinely see this as a thing in the future if the libs stay in power.
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>>707237426
>Nigger baby
Human life
Pick one.
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>>707237529

Yeah... But under given circumstances they aren't that much different...
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>>707237529
>if left alone
You just killed your argument. It literally has no understanding of anything other than growing in its first few weeks. There is no human until way later in the pregnancy.
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>>707237600
Simple solution, preform unwanted abortions!
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>>707236723
the problem with this is that the word "murder" implies the killing of a human being. killing an ant or another lower lifeform isn't considered "murder" (or you consider it murder, and thereby make the word meaningless).

a very early stage abortion - which accounts for nearly EVERY regular abortion, later stage abortions are almost exclusively performed when the woman's life is in danger - is the killing of a lifeform that's lower than any mammal we know of. Putting down a cat is more ethically questionable than aborting an early-stage fetus, and no one would honestly object to the putting down of a cat if letting it live could potentially ruin the life of a human being for 20 years.
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>>707236723
Bait, obviously, but if destroying a collection of cells with the potential to eventually become a human is abortion, then fapping would fit that definition as well. Guess you're a murderer.
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>>707237600
Kek'd and check'd
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>>707237776
I killed nothing. You think baby's have any understanding the first few weeks of life? By that line of thinking it should be legal to kill them too.

If a human arises later in the pregnancy, tell me when precisely. If you can't, you should not terminate pregnancies at all, as you can't be sure you aren't committing murder.
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>>707237981
>trying to anthromorphize fetuses to the point where they're capable of formulating logical thoughts in english before growing limbs

lol
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>>707236515
It's a woman choice, I don't care about that.
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>>707238088

>as you can't be sure you aren't committing murder.

Just because you're killing a lifeform doesn't mean you're killing something of equal value to a human being.
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>>707237122
Just because it's life does't mean it's A life. Bacteria Is life. Is it a living bundle of cells? Sure, but it really doesn't become a life until it's actually developed.
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>>707238026
Sperm has no potential to become a person, neither does an ovum. A Zygote does. Go on, get a petri dish and dump some pudding in there, let's see if killing the contents will ever amount to murder.
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Who the fuck cares about a 4 months old foetus ?
It has no identity, no existence, it can't perform any form of communication.
It doesn't socially exists, so it doesn't exist to me.
Just like I don't give a fuck about some haitian dying in a hurricane, because they don't socially exist to me.
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>>707237220
>futile woman
Freud would be proud
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>>707238340
Pinpoint the stage of development until when it is "safe" to abort, otherwise don't abort cause you'll risk murdering another person.
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>>707238088
I think you are retarded and should understand biology. Towards the beginning the baby is no more than piece of meat.
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>>707238114
Not really. I'd choose an actual life over a potential life any time.
Checked.
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I think we should have an abortion holiday like Russian roulette but abortion roulette.
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>>707238397
>Just like I don't give a fuck about some haitian dying in a hurricane

In case you're being serious and not trying to be edgy: Normal human beings aren't all playing a game of pretend when they say they care about stuff like this. If you're in your early to mid twenties and you genuinely do not care at all about this, your brain is dysfunctional.

I'm not taking issue with the rest of your argumentation though.
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Here's a question for u niggers, if you do not believe abortion is killing a human, at what definitive point does the group of cells gain personhood.

Basically, at what exact point in the development of the fetus/infant does it become human

Also
>No saying there's not a definitive point, that's retarded
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>>707238114
But... that foetus clearly has limbs
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>>707238340

Does the bacteria in your yogurt develop into a person in 9 months? Do the cells in a womans womb develop into yogurt after 9 months?

The difference is one has the potential to become a great human being, guess which.
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>>707238060
Ayy lmao
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>>707238375
You obviously have no understanding of the word potential. By your definition, a single man never has the potential to become a married man. Your argument is invalid and my balls are prepped for your tongue whenever you are ready.
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>>707238703
Yogurt cells do have a life and you are killing millions with your yogurt eating habits. Fucking hypocrite.
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>>707238849
Yogurt Lives Matter
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>>707238707
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Also if you guys are gonna get pissy over killing living things don't eat food because food is or was living things. It's a way of life hombres. get over it.
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>>707238906
So let me ask you, is this a human being equal to yourself? If no, then kill it. If yes, then you are retarded.
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>>707238526
Quick! Get it a Snow White dress before it dries out completely!
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>>707239020
This is also a question for the entire board, not the anon I responded to.
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>>707236515
It should be legal and encouraged. Most people are shit parents, and those who do want children and are actually fit to raise them should adopt. There are tons of hungry impoverished children out there already. We don't need more.
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>>707239111
Nice trips.
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>>707239111
chekd
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>>707239157
/thread
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>>707239222
Right back at ya silly buns
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>>707239222
chekd
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>>707238509
Ok. After the first trimester. And it's not a 'person' there is nothing person about it.
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what do you mean 'should'? it already is.
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>>707239346
in usa.
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>>707238703
So then we can't jack off and get rid of the sperm, cuz it can grow into a "great human being" when we put it into a vagina?

You're arbitrarily drawing the line at the point where the sperm touches the egg. We can do this an infinite amount of times, nothing of value is lost by throwing out one combination of a sperm and egg cell.

Why aren't you impregnating a woman right now? You have the potential to create a great human being every single day! You're slacking!
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>>707236515
Im undecided about abortion.

On one hand i support it because it's killing children.
On the other hand it's giving women a choice
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>>707239329
Sidenote (not samefagging): Nearly every abortion that isn't done for serious medical reasons is performed in the first trimester or very early in the second one. Post-20th week abortions are very rare if there isn't a legitimate, medical emergency.
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>>707239317
That was pretty goddamn cool.
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>>707236515
No
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>>707239509
oh boy I sure haven't heard that one before
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>>707236958
>practically
if you were trying to make an argument, that word practically shatters it.
If you think you are not ending a legitimate life of an individual, then you are a base plebeian.

Having said that fetuses are parasites and women should have control over their bodies under normal circumstances.
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>>707236515
I think it should be illegal other than in the usual circumstances (rape, danger to mother, Downy). The "parents" has plenty of opportunity to choose not to get pregnant using the contraceptive pill, condoms, and by not getting pissed enough to do it without. Once conception has taken place baby should be given a chance.
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>>707239398

you guys fucking suck, who cares.
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>>707239647
Yeah I meant before the first. My bad.
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>>707239020
No, it's not a person yet imo. Human, yes, but so is the placenta.
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>>707237122
>must take precedence over the protection of the woman
I was with you up until this falsehood
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>>707236515

Yes it should.

Not everyone should be a parent

We don't need more kids running around let alone ones that aren't wanted

It has no clue what it's going on, even if it is in pain at some point it's a swift death preventing possible decades of sadness and misery
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>>707239886
This. I wish to fucking Christ I'd been aborted.
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>>707239699
Biological definition of an individual:

a single organism capable of independent existence.

"capable of independent existence"

get fucked
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>>707239756
A well thought out argument by anon.
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>>707237122
Is it too late to abort this guy?
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>>707239953
You can't wish it that much or you'd have topped yourself by now faggot
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>>707239886
Pretty much this.
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Regardless of what you think about the issue, making them illegal doesn't stop them from happening. All it does is drive it underground. I think it should be legal, safe and obligitory for people who score poorly on IQ tests
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>>707239715

Mistakes happen, sure people shouldn't get pregnant that often but accidents do happen and a one night stand shouldn't result in 9 months of carrying the fetus, having to raise it or giving it up for adoption (let's hope they get a nice home) or having to pay child support for 18 years.
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>>707236938
War
>kill millions to protect millions
Abortion
>kill one to protect a few

Both should be legal
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> This. I wish to fucking Christ I'd been aborted.

As a clearer-minded thinker I believe OP should have been aborted.
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yea why not? More jobs for lazy assholes
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>>707240007

I live in Israel, all i know is i had to help pay for two abortions so far because we drunk-sex all the time.
feelsgood not worrying about backwater laws like you have it there.
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fucking hell you guys are all faggots why dont you just ask the aborted kids how they feel
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>>707240039
I've tried many times but I just can't pull the trigger. As miserable as I am, I can't overcome the basic instinct to survive.
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Abortion should be 100% legal at anytime during the pregnancy.

Yes it's murder. But for your actions a child would have been born.

You're a piece of shit if you abort in most circumstances.
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>>707240116
But look at its little hands. Yes it's not self aware but that is a little person. A tiny human being incapable of survival without the womb of the selfish bitch that's considering killing it. It doesn't know it exists, but does that mean it's OK to kill it? I don't think so. On the other hand I'm in favour of forced contraception and parental licences.
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There are so many god damn stupid arguments in this thread.

The argument for life is; the organism inside the woman is a human. Not a bundle of cells, or a "bacteria", but a human with infinite potential in life. The life of an organism undoubtedly begins at conception, so it's not hard to argue that ending that life would be murder.

I'm not even pro-life myself, there's just a lot of stupidity in this thread.

But abortions wouldn't even be the big social issue it is now if everyone wasn't fucking stupid about having so much irresponsible sex. In cases of rape or incest adoption is always an option, but I'd say that abortion is a legitimate answer.

However ending a life simply because you were too retarded to either; not have so much sex you horny fuck, or take proper precautions, is absolutely retarded. There should be consequences for this stupidity.
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>>707236515
It should be both legal, and in some cases, mandatory.
>an acorn is not a tree
>an egg is not a chicken
>a fetus is not a person
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The fact of the matter is, if abortion is illegal you will end up with families with children they don't want. This is how you end up with your babies shaken, not stirred.
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>>707240793
You named two things that are not mammals, and then a human.

You compared humans to a tree, and a chicken.

You're fucking stupid.
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>>707240784
I like this post except the infinite potential bit. They will never be able to levitate using only the power of their minds. Their potential is finite.
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Yes.

Women are stupid emotional people who make stupid emotional decisions.

Do you want them to give birth to a legion of neglected stupid children into this world, or just keep these stupid women childless and collecting cats?

Keep abortion, keep these idiots alone
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>>707240743

Well yes I see no problem in killing a thing that isn't fully functioning, it's not a baby, it's go no clue what's going on, hasn't seen anything, hasn't heard anything or touched anything or made a noise. It's like opening up an egg and finding a half formed chick, is it the same as a living breathing chick that's been alive for a few weeks? No.

Not to mention it's just not worth putting the host through the physical and mental strain just because 'it's could grow up if you let it!'

Agreed though about the forced contraception (they should just make that shit free and have a person go around handing that shit out to everyone)
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Depends are the parents ugly?
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>>707241070
Just an expression.

Humans can do incredible things, you never know who the next Tesla or Socrates will be.
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>>707241099

Cause men play no part in this or the childhood of said grown up fetus.
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>>707236515
3/4 of all nigger pregnancies end in abortion. It is a necessary evil.
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>>707236515
Absolutely
Most abortions are done on single black women
They literally genocide themselves, you couldn't ask for a better system
Not to mention all the money saved by not having to support nigger kids on welfare and foodstamps
Also the saved lives from their deaths, because without a doubt they'd become criminals
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>>707236515
yes. their body their choice.

/thread
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>>707241028
>mammals
It doesn't fucking matter. A seed is not a tree or a bush, just as a fetus is not the same as some snot-nosed 5 year old throwing a hissy fit about the latest CoD or some shit. As much as you hate to admit or even acknowledge it, you, me, and everyone else in here started off as nothing more than a collection of bacteria living off of our hosts (mothers) long enough to eventually be born as a screaming ball of fat, muscle, blood, and cartilage.

tl'dr, pro-choice.
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I'm in favor of anything that helps keep the human population in check
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>>707240743
appeal to emotion fallacy
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>>707241251

it could be the sperm cells from your last batch of whacking it to [insert pornstar]. gone forever! you ruined it!
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>>707241496
I'm not sure about you but I can assure you that I was never a collection of bacteria
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>>707241496
It matters because the biology is different you tard.

Mammals are not birds. Mammals are not fucking trees. Our offspring and ways of conception/birth are fucking obviously different.

You're argument is that babies inside the womb are not humans, so when exactly do you think they become humans? Just when they slip out the womb? If a mother was overdue would her baby inside her now be a human?

Fucking stupid thinking.
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>>707241790
Humanity as a whole was one a collection of bacteria. As the argument goes, because it went on to grow into humans, its life is of equal importance :)
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>>707241649
FUCK OFF WITH THIS FALLACY SHIT I HATE THIS FUCKING MEME.

I mean you're right and he's a faggot but seriously knock that shit off. It's Reddit tier.
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>>707241830

I'd say after it hits about the 6 month mark it's too late to turn back and even then I can understand people that drown unwanted babies right after they're born
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>>707241772
Fucking hell this is the kind of stupid shit I'm talking about in this thread.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or whatever, but just so everybody knows it takes a sperm cell FERTILIZING an egg to create s human.

I don't know if you guys skipped grade 9 biology or what, but the amount of stupidity here is ridiculous.
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Should be legal, but not funded. You want to commit murder, don't do it on other people dime. Learn to make your choices before a hearts beating.
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>>707236515

Just the concept of abortion makes me sick. You're making a life, and then deciding to destroy it. It's as disgusting to me as putting a minutes old baby in a blender.

We all agree killing a newborn is murder right?
What about the day before they're born? Still murder by popular opinion.
What about two weeks before that? It could still survive outside of the womb so most would say still murder. The problem is that as medical technology goes forward, the time a fetus could leave the womb and still survive with medical assistance gets earlier and earlier. I think 18 weeks is the current earliest birth where the baby survived. One day we're going to be able to have the fetuses entire life spent in a nutrient bath, and at what point will abortions be acceptable then?

Despite all of that, I still think abortions should be legal. Kids make stupid mistakes and letting those mistakes haunt them for the rest of their lives, or letting children be brought into the world who won't be cared for by their parents is unfair.

So, anti-abortion but pro-choice. Maybe I should just pick a side and stick to it rather than having a more complicated but less committed position,
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>>707241790
You're no different from anyone else. Don't kid yourself.

>>707241830
>biology
My point still stands. You and I both started off as parasites before we were 'born' and developed consciousness.
>when do they become humans?
When they're old enough and develop said consciousness, OUTSIDE of the womb. Do you remember what it was like inside the womb? Do you know of any people who were born 'overdue' and remember? No? Alright then.
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>>707236515
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>>707241976
That's your definition though, nobody in the pro-choice side would agree in the same moment in the pregnancy.

Many support right up until birth, many might only support the first trimester, etc. etc....

The whole thing is completely arbitrary.
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>>707242019
>minutes old baby in a blender
>minutes old
That's the difference: it's already been born.
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>>707241901
That's not what you said though. You said we all started out as nothing more than a collection of bacteria, not that our species (and indeed all life forms on the planet) did. To say that our lives are no more important than that of an E.coli bacterium is kinda retarded.
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>>707237257
Well thats your cells, go ahead fam.
Scratching another person hurts them, since you're killing some of their cells
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>>707242072
by your logic killing babies is just fine.
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>>707242072
I don't have memories of when I was 1 or 2 either you tard. Hell, I barely remember when I was 6. Was I not a human then?

That is such an arbitrary and stupid way to look at it. Inside the womb? Nope! Not a human oooohhh wait it just came out, now it's a human!
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>>707242072
>You're no different from anyone else. Don't kid yourself.
You're right, nobody else here was a collection of bacteria either.
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>>707242169

Yeah true no one really can agree
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>>707242189

Read the rest of the comment. The problem is that you can't draw the line where it becomes acceptable and there's virtually no difference between killing a child minutes before or minutes after birth apart from a lot of unnecessary trauma for the mother.
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>>707242375

Except no one really waits until it gets to that late of a stage in pregnancy
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>>707236958
stab a baby. worst possible thing you could possibly do. stab a baby in the womb completely fine.
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>>707242360
By your 'logic,' you don't want women to have any control over their bodies whatsoever. In any case, you're wrong, because I said getting rid of a fetus is fine; I never said anything about babies (which have already been born).

>>707242375
>I can't remember what I had for breakfast on this day when I was 5
>guess I'm not human
Not what I'm saying at all; see above. Being born === human baby. Not being born !== human baby.

>>707242460
Are you a biologist? Did you write your dissertation defending that?
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>>707242576

>worst thing

Are you new here?
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>>707237976
>no one would honestly object to the putting down of a cat if letting it live could potentially ruin the life of a human being for 20 years.
PETA
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>>707242571
Yeah but do you see my point? The whole thing of "it's not a human when it's inside the womb so it isn't murder" contradicts itself unless you support abortions right up until it comes out of the womb.

Because there is no point during the pregnancy when the baby magically becomes human, it was a human right from conception.
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>>707237122
>Leads with No True Scotsman in the first three words.
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>>707236515
Yes
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>>707242837
>it was a human right from conception
At what point did human rights extend to undeveloped bacteria/parasites?
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>>707242682
>Are you a biologist? Did you write your dissertation defending that?
As a matter of fact I am a biologist. I did not write my dissertation defending that. By your definition if I was once a collection of bacteria I was also hydrogen in the core of a star. Both things are true of probably every atom in my body but certainly not me as a person.
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>>707242682
thinking women have the ability to be in charge of peoples lives. theres thousands of cases of women aborting children to spite their ex's. why doesnt the father have a say in the life of his child.
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Legal, and let me tell you why;
>1)Unwanted pregnancy

If a woman got raped and gets pregnant are you saying that some deformed nigger/shitskin baby is supposed to just be able to wreck some normal womans life? What if she gets cold feet on the whole "raising a child" thing? What if her financial stabilty, all of a sudden, is not so stable? There are things you have to take into account before you just yell "It's a human being too"

>2) It's not a human being.

Well biologically it is, but not morally no, and here's why; for something to have a "life" it need to have the correct mental capacity to realize it's alive. Now before you say things along the lines of;
>an animal realizes it's alive
well its not getting aborted
>plants realize theyre alive
oh really? did you talk to a cactus about how hillary would fix the country? or did you have a crazy conversation about capitalism destroying the country with a fern?
no you didn't, but I digress.
A fetus does not have the mental capacity to somehow say "Hey fag dont kill me" and if you can show me an unborn child with that type of concious control over its body, then I will stream my live suicide.
>tl;dr pro-life btfo
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>>707242961
They're not bacteria
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>>707242718
ohhh he's a baby killer. he's so cool. stfu edgelord.
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>>707242571

A lot of people do start out a pregnancy feeling happy and consider abortion more the later into the pregnancy they get. The later into the pregnancy it gets the more real the whole situation feels and the easier it is to picture the consequences of it.

Imagine every big decision you've ever had to make and how much worse they felt as the got closer, well imagine the decision you were making was about whether you were going to be looking after another human for the next 20 years and tell me that wouldn't freak you out.
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>>707243130

>being this new
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>>707242682
>>when do they become humans?
>When they're old enough and develop said consciousness, OUTSIDE of the womb. Do you remember what it was like inside the womb? Do you know of any people who were born 'overdue' and remember? No? Alright then.

When they're old enough and develop said consciousness. That is when you said by your definition they become human.

So what exactly are they pulling out of the womb, if not a fucking human? Your definition is too arbitrary. There is no point in the womb or outside where a baby magically achieves "human" status, it is a human from conception.
>>
>>707243179
nope youre just a faggot edglord underage.
>>
>>707242961
Humans are made of cells. Seriously, take a fucking biology class.
>>
>>707243147

I never said every single woman on earth ever does it let alone considers doing it so I don't really get your point.
>>
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>>707243020
>I conveniently am a biologist
Then you should know the difference between a collection of tissue and a fully formed homunculus. In any case, the bacteria you're referring to (fetus) developed the way it did because of external conditions (being inside a woman, feeding off of the host like a symbiote). You could have just as easily become anything else given the proper conditions.
>>
It should be legal, it's 2016 and we are past that shit.
>>
>>707242961

A zygote/fetus/baby isn't bacteria at any stage of the process and since it's part of the reproductive process it's not technically a parasite either.

You still haven't pointed to the exact moment when it becomes a human.
>>
>>707242837

Nah give them the chance to get rid of it straight away, suddenly the whole 'but it has hands and feet' just goes away
>>
>>707241953
Afraid of intelligence?
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>>707237658
>>
>>707243300

In all honesty, is stabbing a baby really the worst possible thing someone can do, in your mind?
>>
>>707236515
It provides jobs so I don't see why not. If you don't want to kill a fetus then don't go get a abortion. If someone doesn't want a child that is their choice not the religious fucks.
>>
>>707243033

Because then there'd be a thousand cases of fathers blocking their ex from having an abortion to spite them and then moving across country.
>>
>>707243379
This issue if nowhere near that simple and you know it.

People change their minds, people don't know they're pregnant, etc...

And my point still stands, there is no magic moment where "human" status is achieved, they are human from conception.
>>
>>707243338
Human != Bacteria
At all
Human cells have a nucleus, endoplasmic reticulum, mitochondria, ribosomes. Bacteria have none of this. A fetus is not and was never bacteria.
>>
>>707243422
in all honesty did you not realize society believes so. baby killers dont even make it out of jail kiddo.
>>
>>707243383
Just not a fan of fedora cringe.
>>
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>>707243033
The father does, though he usually folds and leaves regardless.

>>707243111
They are. You and I both were. If not that, then what?

>>707243224
>there is no point in the womb or outside where a baby magically achieves "human" status
Nor is that the case for when the parents are fucking. Your outdated (and fallacious) definition of humanity comes from the Bible.

>>707243312
Bacterium.

>>707243376
See above. If nothing ever achieves 'human status,' then it can be aborted at the woman's discretion and not be ruled as "murder."
>>
>>707243518
Tits or gtfo dumb cunt.
>>
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>>707243564
>bacteria can never change or mutate
>mold doesn't exist
>>
>>707243091

By that logic it should be acceptable to kill a baby in the first few months of it's life, but somehow I think you'd still call that murder.
>>
>>707243605
>The father does, though he usually folds and leaves regardless.

completely false. if the mother wants an abortion the father has no say.
>>
>>707243688
trust him anon
hes a sciencetism
>>
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>>707238781
R E K T

E

K

T
>>
>>707243605
The point at which it becomes human is conception. I've said this multiple times you fucking retard.

What I'm saying is ironically backed by science, not the bible.

Know what else is backed by science? The fact that humans are not made of fucking bacteria you autist.
>>
>>707243605
>They are. You and I both were. If not that, then what?
Are you fucking serious? What a massive spastic you are. Go read the definition of bacteria. They are prokaryotes (before nucleus) whereas we are eukaryotes (we have nuclei in our cells). Not. Bacteria.
>>
>>707243690
are you saying it isnt?
>>
>>707243224
It's just that, it's a human, not a person. It doesn't havve memoris, it doesn't have cares or wants or worries. It has not set goals or striven for anything. I'm not for killing babies at birth, but I first trimester abortion is just a wise decision sometimes. We put so much extra stresses on our population because of genetic abnormalities and deformities, that could be detected and terminated/killed (whatever you want to say) early so the parents can try again..you can replace a blank state baby, you can't replace the mother head of the family like that. To be so pro life is to be ignorant and unaware of the world we live in.
>>
>>707243553

If you're having sex you should be using cont reception and if you're having sex take regular pregnancy tests, they aren't expensive, take it once every 3 weeks, worse case, you've got 3-5 weeks of development so there's no issue with getting rid of the cells that are trying to form into something else but won't get the chance.
>>
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>>707243772
Her body, her say-so. Consider this before you have sex without a condom.

>>707243848
>backed by science
Give me three empirical, peer-reviewed sources that indicate life starts at contraception.
>also, if that's the case, you commit mass-murder every time you masturbate.

>>707243888
Name-calling, eh? Well, I guess if you have no other way to defend your 'position.'
>>
>>707237220
rekt leftist can't cum back
>>
>>707243582

I honestly don't think stabbing a baby would be the worse thing, I'd say fucking a baby to death is the worst thing you could ever do - and even then there would be the question of simply having it as a sex slave and future child prostitute rather than a death at an early age.
>>
>>707244070
conceived mutually. something goes wrong in the relationship, bitch aborts the child out of spite. like I said Tits or gtfo dumb cunt.
>>
>>707244070
>Name-calling, eh? Well, I guess if you have no other way to defend your 'position.'
No you're right. Apart from, you know, the logic and all. Anyway, killing babies = bad. Saying a fetus is bacteria = imbecilic.
>>
>>707243605

So are we agreeing that murdering babies in the first few months after birth isn't murder since they're not humans?
>>
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>>707236515
>>
>>707244070
TIMESTAMP TITS OR GTFO
>>
>>707243955
Your weird separation of human and person is semantics. By all of your definitions we should be killing vegetables, retards, homeless who don't work to improve, etc...

There is also a thing called adoption. In case you never heard of it. You also appear to weirdly be advocating for eugenics. Oh my baby will have a club foot? Better kill it and try again.

No matter how much mental gymnastics you do, at no point in the pregnancy is the baby inside the womb not a human.
>>
>>707243690
well if a baby were to make it that far in life, it wpuld not need to be killed, as that ship is already gone post-birth
now if a baby has deformities or some sort of problem, then it is not uncommon for it to be killed seeing as it would most likely live the rest of its lige on immense pain.
what makes you so retardwd that your only rebuttle against a well constructed argument is
>well that means we can kill babies
>>
>>707244070
>if that's the case, you commit mass-murder every time you masturbate
Implying that busting a nut is conception
>>
>>707236515
The unfortunately people would still have abortions, but would be more likely to have complications because they would not be done in safe/sanitary medical clinics.
Alternatively, we might see a horrific increase in infanticide cases.
>>
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>>707236515
Like we need more people in the world.
>>
>>707244070
If you don't even understand how conception works, why are you even arguing this?

>commit murder every time you masturbate
IT TAKES A SPERM CELL AND AN EGG CELL TO CONCIEVE A HUMAN YOU FUCKING MORON.
>>
>>707238375
>Sperm has no potential to become a person
Do not reply to this faggot,Xe is the Logistical Unlogic
>>
>>707244473
Ooh, don't call that one names. As a bacterium he does not like it.
>>
>>707244420
you can have the baby and drop it off at the hospitol no questions asked. there is literally no reason not to let it have a chance at life. even if you were raped theres little to no chance the baby will become a rapist.
>>
>>707239157
Holy shit, a anon with logic!
>>
>>707237122
You're probably the same kind of person who doesn't believe in sex education, or even gives a shit once that "precious life" is born.

You pro life people act so self righteous, like everyone who doesn't agree with you thinks abortion is the only option.

You don't give a shit about the human life, otherwise you'd be offering support to new mothers or teaching teens how to prevent unwanted pregnancies to begin with.
>>
>>707244036
What you're painting is a modern world that simply isn't possible.

People are irresponsible, no matter what you think in your utopia, reality is much different.
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>>707244230
And like *I* said, make sure you weigh your options and know what you're getting into the next time you think it'll be a great idea to do it without a condom.

>>707244242
You can hang on semantics, or you can stay on-topic. A fetus is not a baby, just as an acorn is not a tree. Mammal or not, it doesn't matter.

>>707244261
>first few months after birth
>after birth
At that point, it's no longer a fetus, now is it?

>>707244309
I'm not a woman.

>>707244345
Then what is? Just sex, right?

>>707244473
I know what it takes to conceive. However, to argue that life starts at that point is fallacious and anecdotal, not factual.

Unless, of course, you can prove to the contrary.
>>
>>707236515
Don't give a fuck. Personally I think it should be reserved for cases of rape, incest, or birth defects cheap and easy to access. And while legal for other reasons, extremely expensive.

I don't have a vagina nor will I ever have to get an abortion so I don't give a shit.
>>
>>707244627
tits or gtfo
>>
>>707244338

So are your views consistent with the following? If not then please change to show what you think. Also, should killing somebody else's baby be okay, or should that be considered murder regardless of age?

Abortion at 1 week: Fine.
Abortion at 10 weeks: Fine.
Abortion at 20 weeks: Fine.
Abortion at 40 weeks: Fine.
Abortion on day of birth: Fine
Abortion a week after birth: Fine.
Abortion a month after birth: Fine.
Abortion a year after birth: Fine.
Abortion after they've learnt to talk: THAT'S MURDER YOU SICK FUCK!
>>
>>707244872
>day of birth
>after birth
>>
>>707244643
>conceived mutually on purpose.
You are so fucking dumb it hurts. this is why women shouldnt be allowed to make life and death decisions.
>>
>>707244642

How's it impossible? Unless the person is being molested or raped and thus doesn't have the choice over whether or not to get pregnant why can't she easily use the pill, him the condom and take pregnancy tests on a regular basis? Keep in mind I'm talking about modern western countries not out of the ass Africa where half the bloody people are walking around with aids.

Plus, if these people can't manage these tiny responsibility of taking a pill ever day, pissing on a stick once a month and looking at the results or putting a condom on, they should probably get an abortion cause they shouldn't be having kids.
>>
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>>707244643
You obviously don't know what it takes to concieve, since you just said masturbation is equivalent to fertilization of an egg. You absolute moron.

You're fucking retarded dude.
>>
>>707244643
>Just sex, right?
Closed-mind <----{
>>
>>707236515
Yes, because if I knocked up a girl I definitely would want to not have to raise a child or pay child support or have any long term consequences whatsoever
>>
1. The world is overpopulated. Even if we were to have an event in which 2B people die, it won't solve our population problems. Abortion stops it climbing higher.

2. The progression of science requires the use of embryonic and placental cells in early stages of development.

3. Human lives are not precious.

4. The same people that oppose abortion won't lift a finger to go help those in third world countries. They're as bad as any other SJW out there.
>>
>>707244320

There aren't enough couples who want to adopt to cover all the kids in the system right now, if you throw even a fraction of the current abortion onto that then you're just adding thousands of children to the world who won't have real homes. Being a ward of the state sucks by the way.
>>
>>707244976
>This is why women shouldn't be allowed to...
You realize I'm not a woman, right?

>>707244984
Here, a source for you. Life doesn't begin at conception. If you can prove otherwise, take some time and do so instead of jumping to sophomoric name-calling.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/17/the-fertilized-egg-is-not-a-hu/
>>
>>707244981
Yes but if the world looked like what you're showing it as this wouldn't fucming be an issue, would it?

I agree, if you're not responsible to take the proper precautions, don't have fucking sex, especially if you can't deal with the consequences of your actions.

But that's not what the real world looks like.
>>
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>>707245097
$(this);

.thread(die);
>>
>>707245097
>3. Human loves are not precious
Easy there, you do know what Soylent Green is right?
>>
>>707245144
sure. thats why you have no logic and critical thinking not to mention accountability.
>>
>>707245097
/thread
>>
This is and will always be a touchy subject. At the end of the day, regardless of what you think is right or wrong, it's up to the mom to decide what she wants to do. So for that I say abortion should be legal.
>>
>>707244872
some of that is right
some.
because if they find some form of life threatening irregularity in its breathing patterns, growth patterns, etc. etc., then they would need to put it down.
how would you like to live with only one working lung
>trick question, you wouldnt, fucktard
>>
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>>707245315
>you have no accountability
Now you're just being opinionated.
>>
>>707244872
>Abortion on day of birth: Fine
>Abortion a week after birth: Fine.
>Abortion a month after birth: Fine.
>Abortion a year after birth: Fine.
Not abortion then, much more delude
>>
>>707245356
only women get to decide if a child should be murdered? and whys that?
>>
>>707245144
I only call names when I feel they're appropriate, but now I see where you got that masturbation nonsense from, this source.

This source's argument (which is a dudes blog by the way, hardly concrete support), refutes the pro-life argument by saying it rests in the fallacy that all cells are life.

But that's not the argument. The argument has always been for human life, which begins when a sperm cell fertilizes an egg cell, which I will remind you, that you didn't know about.

HUMAN LIFE. Not all cells everywhere, human life.
>>
>>707244575

The problem with that is that most people don't assume you were raped for those nine months, they assume you're going to be a single mother because you slept around, and when you eventually appear without a bump and without a baby people will start talking. Being raped is more humiliating than you can imagine if you haven't been through it, and making women carry that child for most of a year is something they shouldn't have to deal with.
>>
>>707245458

you just keep sounding more and more like a woman every post. you arent helping your case.
>>
>>707236938
Nice strawman there, he didn't say he supported war idiot.
>>
>>707245356
This

But if a man doesn't want to be responsible for some little punk a bitch decides to keep, he shouldn't have to be
>>
>>707245590
Tits or GTFO its simple as that.
>>
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>>707236515
It should be legal.

Which sounds more humane?
1) Abort an unwanted fetus.
2) Child, at best, grows up in hostile home environment due to being unwanted, or is thrown into overtaxed wretched child services system with little to no chance of adoption.
3) Child, at worst, is sold on black market to human traffickers, most likely ending up in some pederast's basement dungeon.

>>707236723
>>707237122
Not sure if bait.
>>707237257
This.
>>
>>707244162

Welp, ir's fap time.
>>
Top kek Libtards "abortion is a woman's right" "dont cut down trees"

If abortion is a woman's right, then cutting down trees is a logging company's right as well.
>>
>>707244959

So I can punch a pregnant woman in the stomach and only get charged with assault even though the kid will die?

Apart from the fact they've gone though a vagina, what's the difference between the day before and the day after? I can't see any real difference there.
>>
>>707245756
there are hundreds of thousands of people that have gone through the adoption process that would like to have a word with you.
>>
>>707245204

So wait in other words, I offer a way to deal with it and you go 'no it wouldn't work, your idea is dumb! no abortions we will not solve the problem if you get pregnant it's your fault and you have to give birth to it no matter what!'

I know most people don't take responsibility for their bodies and I don't think they should have the chance to birth a fucking child if they can't do what I suggested. We have enough little unwanted, unloved, unadopted little kids waiting to be given a chance at a normal life because mommy felt too guilty to have an abortion or wasn't able to cause someone though 'nah it should live, oh it's born, eh fuck it, put it with the rest'
>>
>>707236515

Legal? No. Mandatory? Yes.
>>
>>707245143
Ideally nobody would have to adopt.

The entire pro-life argument is for people to make more responsible choices when having sex. If you can't take the necessary precautions or deal with the consequences, you shouldn't be having sex.
>>
>>707245512

So they become a human the moment they've gone headfirst through a vagina? That's a really flimsy definition of humanity.
>>
>>707236958
Literally has a heart beat literally has brain waves please tell me how they don't exist?
>>
>>707246101
Not that anon, but humanity is a flimsy definition of humanity. We've gone head first through the vagina of the world stumbling around like newborns without a mother.
>>
>>707236515
>>707236515
Yes because if ops mom had aborted op. Then we wouldn't have this gay ass thread
>>
>>707246101
>That's a really flimsy definition of humanity.
Well we are just a pile of flesh and water.
>>
>>707246183
You're excessive use of literally.

Jesus, learn to argue, faggot.
>>
>>707245979
I don't know why you're sticking to this point so vehemently, it's not human nature to behave as responsibly as you described in your post.

If you can't take the precautions, or deal with the consequences, don't have sex. It's simple.

But this entire debate is happening because people don't abide by those two simple commands.

In cases of rape or incest I fully support abortion, there's always the adoption option, but abortion is totally legitimate.

But having a stupid one-night stand and then just saying "ah, whatever" and getting an abortion is irresponsible and fucking reprehensible.
>>
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>>707245879
>A person is the same as the thing sustaining our ecosystem.
>>
>>707237220
Key word potential jack ass. Life begins at conception not creampie you autist
>>
>>707239985
Are you saying children aren't individuals up until they can get their own food and water to live off of?
>>
>>707245756
Which sounds more humane?
1) Killing and garbaging a living, breathing, human before they even get a chance at living a good life because of materialistic mothers who abort only because they care about their own self image
2) Child gets adopted and lives a pretty good life
>>
>>707239985
Then get yourself aborted you autist.
>>
>>707246038

I'd buy that apart from a lot of pro-lifers opposing sex education in schools.

I get that no need for adoptions would be ideal, but refusing to let gay couples adopt also makes a system with zero abortions pretty much unworkable.
>>
>>707238026
CONCEPTION you autist.
>>
>>707246404

Honestly really bored of this talk, we aren't going to agree on this. People are going to fuck, hopefully they use protection and if not abortion should be an option

>but my morals!

Your body? Your kid? You going to adopt it? No to all 3? Then what fucking say should you have?
>>
>>707246430
I'm not comparing a person and the ecosystem, I'm comparing the horrible excuse for abortion being a 'woman's right'. Just because something is inside your uterus doesn't mean you have a right to kill it.
>>
>>707245951
>hundreds of thousands
Meanwhile, even more go unadopted with abortion keeping the numbers down.
>>
>>707246615
Take a look at the already bloated and corrupt adoption system. Thousands of kids never get adopted and stay wards of the state until they're adults.

Adoption isn't an option.
>>
>>707246766
Meh, the subject is as nuanced as people's opinions are.

I'm pro-life primarily because I think it would force people to make more responsible decisions, but if it ended up as just a disaster with lots of unwanted kids I'd say go back to abortion.

I also support gay couples rights to adoption, I do believe they couldn't provide the same dynamic of mother/father that most children have, but honestly there are times when gay couples would be the better choice.
>>
>>707246871
It is if people stopped being shitbags and instead of aborting their children, birthed them and took care of them, or if they KNOW they can't look after a child, don't be taking chances at it in the first place.

If Humans, and Americans in particular focused on having a family as a life goal instead of doing stupid shit like smoking pot and sitting on your ass, the adoption system wouldn't be 'bloated'.
>>
>>707246812
Dismissing my argument as
>muh morals
Is soooo fucking dishonest.

Do you think it's a good thing people are being taught not to be held accountable for stupid actions? I'm not even on this stance because of the sanctity of life, that's a whole different argument.

People have shown they're not responsible enough to have the option for extreme cases, so make laws that force them to be responsible.
>>
>>707247236
What the fuck are you even doing on 4chan, normie?
>>
>>707247378
>4chan is my edgy safe space

Lol
>>
>>707247236
Good job on diverting the topic and shifting to an personal attack retard. Even if people shifted their views, it'd take generations before that actually took effect.

The problem is honestly the rest of the world, they're the ones fucking like rabbits and fucking around. Birth rates in America are starting to stall.
>>
>>707247095
>if it ended up as just a disaster with lots of unwanted kids
It already has man. Take a look at the crime stats on the generation that would have come of age after Roe v. Wade.

Not to mention the system pre-abortion when there were literally "street kids".
>>
>>707247507
>rest of the world

It's okay, you can say it's Africa.
>>
>>707238088
Just convinced me that it's okay to kill a baby lmao
>>
>>707247499
Kek I mean I don't care, but sometimes I see a post like that and wonder what even draws you to this place. I mean 4chan really is for edgelords. It came really be denied.
>>
>>707247610
Other countries/continents too dude. The southeast Pacific is littered with rejected children
>>
>>707247358

So more or less you want to force the woman to give birth to something she doesn't want to have because she needs to learn a lesson. Fucking hell anon I'm happy you won't have any actual stance on if you get a chick pregnant, she can abort that suck with or without your permission, big tip, warn women (if you do get laid) that you'll try and force them to keep the child.
>>
>>707246854
the ones that dont get adopted go on to live productive lives and are happy to be alive. you already are alive who are you to deny that same chance to them?
>>
>>707247236
>if people stopped being shitbags
>if people
>if
>>
>>707247893
>I've never seen the inside of an adoption center or halfway house nor will I ever.
Fuck off dude. The system is so far from that it's ridiculous.
>>
>>707237638
Nah, ANTIconception, stops egg from being fertilized. CONTRAceptive stops fertilized egg from hatching itself in the wall of uterus
>>
>>707247507
Where do you see the personal attack, fuckhead?
>>
>>707247730
Ideally a woman would never have to go through an unwanted pregnancy BECAUSE SHE WOULDNT MAKE STUPID DECISIONS.

I've said before I support abortion in extreme cases, but I don't support the right to be an irresponsible little shit.
>>
>>707247236
>>>707246871 (You)
>It is if people stopped being shitbags and instead of aborting their children, birthed them and took care of them, or if they KNOW they can't look after a child, don't be taking chances at it in the first place.
>If Humans, and Americans in particular focused on having a family as a life goal instead of doing stupid shit like smoking pot and sitting on your ass, the adoption system wouldn't be 'bloated'.
There ya go.
>>
>>707247540
The crime stats that WOULDVE come after Roe v Wade? I'm unfamiliar.
>>
>>707247499
>>4chan is my edgy safe space
It's never safe here on 4chan, newfag
>>
>>707248378
>can't even greentext
>calls me a newfag
>>
>>707247893
Holy shit, I seriously hope you're trolling. Nobody can be this ignorant/naive.

The vast majority of them do not live "productive" and "happy" lives. In fact the ranks of the sex trade and drug addicted are filled with these people.

Turns out growing up in an overburdened system that's more akin to prisons than homes makes people generally turn out fucked up.
>>
>>707248707
>Not understanding mistakes
Whatever you say, newfag
>>
Personally i don't agree with abortion. I don't care what you think it wont change my view on you all. But, abortion i think is selfish. You mess around in a place where you probably know you cant afford, whether it be money food etc. to have kids. Probably shouldn't having sex in ways that get have a high risk of geting you pregnant (people have goten pregnant from anal and oral, idk how that happened). So you shouldn't kill something that could become a great person because you were stupid. Even if you can afford them, or not. There are generally people who will adopt babies who cant have kids. My neighbors have like 13 adopted kids. And also the lady who was fighting for the right of abortion, had her child in the time that she was fighting for the right, and is now pro-life. If that doesn't tell you anything idk what will. It dosesnt really mater to me though cuz im not getting laid anytime soon
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I cant help but notice that everyone who is pro-abortion has already been born
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>>707248374
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw
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>>707249137
Are you fucking retarded? Like honestly, were you dropped on your head numerous times as a child?
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>>707236515
Its the choice of the person who's carrying it.
If they want to kill it then, so be it.
>>
>>707249210
It's interesting. I believe it would still be considered a theory within the definition of the scientific method, but the data (if true from what the video said) does support it.

I find most interesting his assertion that abortion was merely "delaying" births. I seriously doubt that's the case, but even if it did make up the majority of abortions, why were they having unwanted pregnancies anyway if just a few years later they were fine with having kids?

Surely the majority of abortions weren't prospective parents who just weren't in the proper situation at the time, I'm fairly certain the data would show its primarily teenagers and the like, who wouldn't have to have abortions if they made responsible decisions.

But that's just speculation on my part, the data could 100% support this guy.
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>>707236515
Abortion kills alot of niggers, we need it to keep the white race afloat.
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>>707251642
The white race is a meme.
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>>707252217
found the coon.
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No if you do not want a baby do not have sex. If you don't want a child from rape don't get raped.
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>>707250443
ww.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6410a1.htm?s_cid=ss6410a1_e

It looks like (unmarried) women in their early 20's are the highest percentage of women getting abortions.
>>
>>707252474
Edgy. Also nah I'm part of the meme race.
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