Which programming languages are okay and which are for fags?
IMO if you arent capable of writing a serious program (comparable to 300+ lines in java) in assembly, you're a failure as a programmer
Otherwise C, C++, Java okay
Python, Javascript, html, ruby for tards (your rank by the best that you know)
I know you are, but what am i
> HTML
> Programming Language
Wat. I don't think you're a "serious programmer"
>>703997768
All are okay if you're on a certain level. But a programmer can't be good without knowing C, some object oriented language and perhaps some functional stuff.
I like Lisp and C the most. I use C++ the most since it's a good compromise.
>>703997768
>Javascript
>for tards
Ya Angular, Node, Backbone, React for retards.
Pls kill your self.
>>703998619
Ya, imma bout c and c++ myself. Java is nice if i wanna ease off some of the edges, but it has too many limitation in the way of compatibility.
I keep getting told I need to like python more, but it just seems too kiddy to me, like a half step between visual basic and something real.
>>703998494
this
ITT "smart" fags take the bait
OP here, never tried, how is C# as a language (both in difficulty and in use)
>>703999823
Easy to use, great for use. Microsoft has taken it really far. It's basically Java if it weren't shit.
>>703999823
Great as a Java like language (needs a runtime, JIT, garbage collection), however long term trends are more favorable of the native compiled languages, especially for desktop applications, but I think this will come into play also for web applications. C++ gained a lot of modern features in C++11 and C++14 versions, and is compiled, quick, and gives good per Watt performance (which is important in servers). It is however much more complicated to use than C# or Java, so it might not get adopted as widely.
>>704000057
any good, free sources to learn?
All my other languages I learned in the classroom, but dunzo with schol now.
>>703998494
/thread
OP go home you are an idiot
>>704000303
If you're familiar with other high-level languages you should be able to pick it up fairly quickly just by looking at the documentation. So no real need for tutorial unless you really think that'll help you learn
I suggest trying to recreate pong or some simple game in C# and looking up tutorials on how to do very specific things (like create a window, draw somethings, etc).
>>704000294
All true, though I will say C# is near "native" performance (thanks to JIT, as you mentioned).
>>703997768
In my opinion if you write a serious program in assembly and you really didn't need to, you're a failure as a programmer.
Also you just spouted "Le Most Poplar lenguages for linkedin" and meme'd all over the place.
I know this is bait, but seriously fucking pick it up.
>>704001062
noone should be regularly programming in assembly, unless they're a sperg. Knowing how to is a reflection of your base knowledge of how programming languages work.Writing 1 or 2 multi hundred line assembly programs is good for understanding how things work; with compilers as good as they are now, you're a tard to do more than that. Hell even my friends with jobs writing firmware and hardware-bound drivers just use C.
i only program in python
>>704001519
I need to finish this. I need to atleast make something reasonable.
Learn from the ground up. Beginners can do C just fine if they're not awful at symbolic logic and math. Wizards and those moderately skilled in C can do an assembly language. After that you can play around with hobby and career languages. Assembly is not useful for most things, but it's part of paying your dues and being prepared to know what the fuck you're talking about and doing.
If you just cannot do it, don't bother to try anything until you've finished high school algebra classes and read a book on logic: dover publishes a good, cheap one. Play with redstone in minecraft, or get an arduino and screw around with it using python as well. These are similar to what you'll do when programming when you first start out.
Don't bother to learn a web language unless you eventually want to work with them, but only after you're any good at C and assembly. Note that only 25% of what you learn will be applicable in ten years.
(Also, turn back, this is not a satisfying life path.)
>>704001704
>play with redstone in minecraft
troll
>>703997768
Siemens step 7 stl
>>703997768
>assembly meme
>#soooNerdy2016
I program in powershell
>>704002048
not all assembly is the same. MIPS assembly is god tier, x86 assembly is merely good tier.
That said, noone, EVER, should be programming in assembly with any regularity.
>>703997768
>Serious programmer
>Calls HTML a language
>mfs this is bait
>>704001903
>>704002048
>>704001410
>>704002246
What does the L stand for in HTML, then?
>>704002617
Ya, theres a meme that HTML isn't a programming language. While it's not a deep and complex one, it still def is. Fap more codefags.
C++ is a pain. 10000 examples of the way programmers have hurt themselves http://www.viva64.com/en/examples/ Seriously, 10000!
>no love for Fortran
>>703997768
If you're writing that much assembly, you're an idiot.
>>704002617
Remind self what the M stands for as well. Programming languages create programs.
>>704002790
So, don't hurt yourself. I see c++ like some serious working with a metal, involving cutters, machine tools and so on. It can hurt, but it's metal.
>>703998494
/Thread
>>704002760
No, it is not, it is a markup language.
![tumblr_nn2jkhZvt31tgx3vwo1_500[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/NXBUiNQ.gif "tumblr_nn2jkhZvt31tgx3vwo1_500[1].gif")
I have started programming, but so far I cannot find anything interesting to create aside Javascript for my sites.
What did you do as a first personal project that boosted your experience or motivation?
I an noob, so I am interested to know the noob you were.
>pic for pledge
>>704003637
Create a 2d game fam
C#
>>704003637
Registry tweaking could be insightful in coding
>>704003795
seconding
R
>>704003795
Though WPF breaks my balls every fucking day god damn . net
I'm currently going to school for Basic Computer Programming. I'll know a little bit of html, Java, JavaScript, and C++. After that, I'll decide exactly what I want to persue and focus on a single language with knowledge of the big names.
>>704003637
Attempt to copy flash games or learn the very basics of a serious program and get a mini version of that going.
Attempting a mini-deffraggler atm, which does nothing all that useful aside from being a neat way of testing out sorting methods.
>>704003637
Sudoku, hangman, tic tac toe, etc.
Make it a longterm project where you add more and more features. (ie: AI v. AI., character set swapping, multi-dimensional boards.)
>>704003829
For fuck's sake.
What exactly is it you think the registry is?
>>703999823
sed is fun. most people only ever write some variant of 's/regex/substitution/g' but it's actually got many more features, you can kind of think of it as bytecode for a really shitty VM that only understands strings and regex matching.
>>704003637
Taught myself neural nets and wrote an handwriting recognition app that does 1-9, +, z, a-z with > 95% accuracy. Now working to extend to unicode characters.
>not coding in BASIC
>>703997768
>if you cant write in a low-level language, then you're a failure
agreed
>you should therefore inly use low-level languages
strongly disagree.
as soon as you have proven you understand a low-level language, you should use a high-level language
as soon as you have understoodm programming, you should use tools that encourage minimizing deficiencies and aide in working together as a team.
imo python is the best
>easy code review by maximizing readablity
>automatic verification is reliable
>extremely wide range of debugging mechanism
>subset of the language can be enforced when additional static checking is required
>calling C language functions is possible withouth going full .net/mono retard
php is the worst
>language specifically written to sacrifice security and reliability for lower entry skill level
>inconsistent to the max
>still has parser BUGS
>mfw really good at visual basic
>>703998780
It is tbh, it's only useful to understand programming fundamentals or attract a younger audience into the world of programming.
>>704003637
Learn as many different paradigms as quickly as you can.
Learn you've got procedural (the most common), now learn derlarative (SQL would be the most convenient), a functional (Haskell or, if you use it strictly, Lisp), and a proper Object Oriented (Smalltalk would be great but it's a bit impractical...Ruby would be a decent choice.
Once your brain stops exploding, you'll be able to better solve problems regardless of language.
>>703997768
>C, C++, Java
>Java being grouped with C languages
Are you serious, OP?
>>704004352
Except python is just bad for non scripting tasks. No where near as fast. And all code can be readable if you dont write like a tard.
>>704003349
Actually, all languages can be deadly. It's all very bad. A space error: 370.000.000 $ for an integer overflow http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0426/
>>704004227
that's pretty neato famalam
does the software analyse a pic of handwriting or can one directly write on a touchscreen?
>>704004352
python is "readable" how? It's just as easy to do totally crazy bullshit in python as any other language.
>>704004443
It's got C syntax and the same bullshit "Object Oriented" style as C++.
Why wouldn't it be grouped with them?
>>703997768
i do half my work in c# with calls to dll's written in fortran. c++ is an okay compromise if i want to do a straight project
sure asm is ok, but it varies so much for every platform that you can really fuck yourself.
py kicks ass if you just want to fool around with something and get it up and running fast
>>704004414
We're getting teached about python since java is barely useless in networking. Its easily understandable.
>>704004670
>teached
>>704003637
Try making a keylogger.
NOW THAT'S FUN
>>704004670
>>704004749
>barely useless
>>704004475
Speed?
Are you writing an operating system? Device drivers? Gaming engines? Security tools? Streaming codecs?
If you didn't answer yes to one of those and you're that concerned with speed, you're a complete tool and nowhere near as good as you think you are.
It's just that you're too stupid to know it.
Just like every other code monkey.
Asm is useless because you can't fucking beat the compiler.
The compiler knows every trick, every kink, every nut and bolt of your CPU.
It is only limited by your own idiocy, yet it will try its best to bypass it.
>>704004550
It reads in .jpeg of of a bloc of handwriten text. Breaks the pic into sub images of each letter while keeping track of order and then runs each letter through the net. I plan live translation in the future. Endgoal is a scanner that quickly converts handwriting in live video to text. So i can like scan a whiteboard during class and get a 'typed' version.
>>704004378
Are you sure you're still using visual basic, or do your programs have so many windows calls that its basically a C program with an uglier syntax?
i'd say you're a fag, 'cause you cant say which one is the best without relation to the hardware or plan you have. So just learn every language and be happy when you're able to solve problems
>>704004770
Not really. You can do.this in .net with setwinhookex l. Takes maybe an hour.
>>704004848
Big data analytics and network management.
>>704004670
Networking? Of all things? If you are in a networking career, you had to learn other languages, why change to python?
>>703998494
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A2mWqLUpzw
I like PHP
>2016
>not using Verilog
plebs
>>704004934
that's a great project m8, keep it up!
>>704004475
>fast
i work with python professinally.
yes, i have run into memory consumption issues, so i moved 2 exceptionally large data structures over to the database server where they belong.
but i have never had trouble with speed. if i had those, i would most likely have made an implementation mistake.
while some very low-level language operations are indeed slower by an order of magnitude in python when ompared to C, what really matters are data operations, and those are no different whatever language they are called from.
>>704004560
>There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever be, any programming language in which it is the least bit difficult to write bad code.
what i am talking about is not what the programmer at his worst can do with it.
i am talkig about what he can achieve at his best.
In C, you still have ugly system internals bleeding into coding style (e.g. some pointer/dereferncing/array access patterns cannot be expressed in a clean and consistent API)
In Python, you are writing clean Interfaces even for the most simple data types, while still not violating DRY.
>>704004871
It is useless because it is not portable.
>>704004560
readable for beginners, leave the boy alone
>>703997768
>IMO if you arent capable of writing a serious essay (comparable to 300+ lines in English) on paper, you're a failure at the language
Literally you right now. You're being an elitist about fucking languages.
Pic related.
fuck this over-motivated kids that programs java or C# for one year and try to blame other languages. Try to program FPGA, µCs or sth. like this. You dont even know what the fuck you are doing when you programming java.
>>704005103
Hang on.
*Both* of those?
So, you're an IT guy?
>>704005281
That's another good point.
But generally when you get ANY speed improvement is due you changing how your code works to fit the CPU better, rather than the other way around.
Ladder logic
Fuck you guys
>>704005261
Thanks
>>704005640
Nigga that's like saying APL. Fuck off.
>>704005291
sorry bud,
here's a simple test:
write a program in assembly in which you enter 3 single digit numbers and compute the median of the 3. If you can do that, then you're probably up to snuff in the understanding of the basics of the language. If not, script kiddy status.
>>704005239
http://phpsadness.com/
>>704005269
So having a job means your good. Being employed != good at code
>>704005824
The only reason to use assembly is RE, questionable patching/hooking, and wiring up code in also questionable ways that a compiler won't do.
Any other reason is idiotic and almost always wrong.
I've done the most with Javascript for work, but it's a giant pile of shit.
>Oh you referenced a variable that doesn't exist? That's ok I'll just silently create it as a global variable.
>>704004871
asm beats c# .net
anytime you skip the cil, you beat any of the .net platforms.
>>704005281
>>704006076
Most good jobs nowadays require you to submit an extensive portfolio and even show knowledge during the interview...computer science is getting pretty competitive because all the kiddies think its the best field in the world even though it's over saturated as fuck
>>703997768
Nothing but FORTRAN 77 is allowed, obviously.
If you haven't built your entire environment from the ground up starting with transistor grids, you're a script kiddie and you should kill yourself.
>>704006452
>implying anyone in the current market from the last 10 years even knows transistor grids anymore
They won't even teach you that in an extensive digital logic course anymore
>>704005759
APL is awesome!
You can write a whole automated air traffic control system in six lines of code.
The only problem is that nobody can figure out how it works (including the person who wrote it).
download
>>704006693
Go electrical engineering
>>704006693
Then how do you know what they are?
checkmate.jpg
>>704006452
Real men dope their own silicon
>>704006452
>not melting, growing the latice, cutting, polishing,photoexposing,doping,coating with copper, cutting, wiring with thin gold wires and encasing in plastic your own chips at your garage.
>>704006175
lost
>>704006969
>I am
They teach purely from a gate and up approach now. No reason to teach transistor grids anymore. Even in industry most EE's will never even work with gate circuits because its all done through hierarchy languages derived from C like VHDL and Verilog
>inb4 maybe you just dont go to a good skool
k
>>704007141
And they do the litho by hand.
>>703997768
C and C ++ doesnt seem very good, Id rather have a B or even A if I can manage it
>>704005239
Yep, its pretty good.
>>704007304
>2016
>even considering using anything other than assembler
Lazy, unintelligent plebs. If it takes you an afternoon to write something that should take years, you're creating bloatware.
>posted from the world's most efficient browser for Windows 98, coded by yours truly
Java is for fags. C++ rules.
>>704007408
>using windows environment
>calling other people's shit bloatware
pick one
>>704007408
>Using an OS
>not just an assembler monitor where you quickly type everything you need in the memory
>>704007524
I'm still working on rewriting windows 98 in assembler, in 50 more years it will be the best OS ever made.
>>703997768
If you know all these languages you know that all of them are gay but that its okay in their each individual way.. <3
Stop language-shaming, naughty anon
>>704001704
yall are very convinced c is best way to learn.
i say its only good if you wanna create your own drivers and stuff. wich you most often dont even need.
java is better in that aspect cause its always a virtual driver. runs on anything and can do almost everything c can do. the things you cant are things you're probley not gonna use.
might be bit slower but these times stuff gets so fast it wont matter anyway.
That is the best lesson the "asm is fast audience" should take:
http://www.petesqbsite.com/sections/tutorials/tuts/qfastman/QFASTMAN.html
>>704007851
Java sucks when it comes to realtime, sound processing, video processing, it will never be there. And even Java editors are dumb as fuck, there is a noticeable latency between you push a button and see a character.
>>703997768
Various useful information you can read here, certainly not learned programming, but something useful you can learn https://hownot2code.com/category/tips-and-tricks/
>>704004475
Doing tools for 3d software is faster in python. Python is faster than doing shit in mel
>>703997768
Whitespace to save printer ink.
>>704007641
>monitor
>not shitposting on /b/ using punch cards
Get on my level commoners.
Perl is, by far, the best scripting language.
>>704008486
I'm too lazy for punch cards.
Instead i'm using bit switches.
>>704008070
>sucks with realtime
>noticable latency
unless you want to make another shitty cod rip off. its complete bullshit.
and rather have none perfect video/sound proccesing than writing my program three times.
>>704008513
>>>/antiqueroadshow/
C#
>>704008816
lolwut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Cr0EWwaTk
>>704008811
That's a good introductory machine, but really you should aim to use punchcards.
>>704008043
Almost no one that says asm is fast knows enough about it to actually make it be fast.
If they're lucky, they'll get the same speed they would've out of C with a decent compiler.
More than likely, they'll just fuck it up and make it slower.
Assembly is PRETTY GOOD!
>>704008889
Python is over 25 years old. Perl's not that much older.
Really though, Perl is the best language to churn out quick and dirty scripts. If you're making something that just needs needs no longterm maintainability then Perl is the way to go. I can run my face over the keyboard and it would probably generate a Perl script that can do what I need.
>>704003999
Yet C# is a lot more than just WPF.
I've got years of C# experience and I'm currently full stack developer for both web and desktop C# applications. for desktop WPF, for web .NET Core.
As far as I know C# is pooper for games because it's slower than C++, unless the game's made in Unity, of course, where C# is well put in place, but I'm not even bothering with that, API and Services made in C# can be a very powerful tool.
Claiming that you, or anyone, is a noob at programming and can't get started with C# is retarded. All you need is Visual Studio and a project that you want to work on. Give yourself tasks and then explore how to do one thing after another.
>>704009971
There's nothing that Perl is good enough at to warrant learning it.
If it's quick and dirty, use shell script. If it's not, use Python.
Either way, there's never a need for Perl.
>>704010111
Nah did an rpg using mono game framework which is c#. Runs efficiently. Theres nothing fast about unity
>>703997768
C is the most efficient programming language. But if you want a object oriented language go for c++ or java. If you want to work on Microsoft become a god in c and c#.
Racket master race reporting in.
>>704004871
A compiler hardly knows every trick.
Who's been lying to you?
>>704004618
It's not a native language, it's emulated.
>>704011094
You're goddamned right.
If you ain't Scheming, you ain't trying.
>>704011249
My /b/ro
>>704005255
Verilog, VHDL, and even Schematic are all superior.
>>704005178
no it isn't, it's pure markup unless you bring javascript into the game then its a mix of markup and scripting.
markup or styling is basically rather than coming up with your own shit you use what is there, look at it like dressing a woman with pre-existing clothes where you can for instance change color or sizes, and put it on her.
programming is building the universe, building the air, gravity, minerals, everything, and the woman, her personality and the fabric to the clothes shes going to wear, if you want to go deeper you can even write how that fabric is made, programming gives you a big toolbox to build everything you want, markup gives you a painting bucket and a plastic hammer.
>>704011240
And? What the fuck does that have to do with the syntax and semantics of the language (unless you want to rock real hard about reflection/introspection).
Oh, right...you've got that bullshit misconception that somehow a "native" binary is better. I used to have that, but I got better.
Notice how I quoted "native"?
Even if you're stupidly banging out asm it *still* ain't native. Processors have long since run on internal microcode that we never see.
>>704011331
Here's to a great Scheme, actively developed, with a ton of libraries, and defmacro style macros.
What else could anyone ask for?
Racket forever!
Jay?
>>704011665
God only knows!
One of my prof is the guy who wrote a crap ton of racket libraries.
>>704011546
You must not know how CPUs work.
You'd rather have a layer stacked on top of a layer then repeat a bunch of times, then call that a good language.
>>704011546
JAVA is not fast or reliable enough for serious work that's why it's something you put in dishwashers rather than fighter jets (asm).
>>703997768
Python is overrated by fags
It's pretty good and has an exellent conunity support but it' suposed to be used as a glue lang
If you go to college they will teach you visual basic
im a software dev teacher
i teach C++ as a starting point and web dev (html,css,javascript and libraries,laravel)
also software dev methologies and models for good measure
>>704011546
You do understand the difference between what an Emulator is and what Native is right?
>>704011887
Out of order execution? Branch-prediction? Instruction pipelines?
Stuff like that?
In all likelihood, I've forgotten more about asm and CPU architecture than you'll ever know.
>>704012009
it's expanded beyond that but yea i'm not a big fan of it either, you either use it for everything and never turn to another language or you dont use it at all.
reminds me of the good ole delphi days
>>703997768
You can be a good programmer/developer without knowing any C/C++/Assember but people who know those languages tend to have a wider/better understanding how the geek stuff works.
>>704012116
Baby steps.
>>704011954
I fucking hate Java. An evil language.
But what you said is catestrophically stupid.
>>704002790
Dis Snowflake gets nullptr errors, poor baby
>>704012134
Plz, you're nothing more than a script kiddie.
Now get back to your school work.
>>704012133
Enough to know that the JVM isn't an emulator.
Tell you what, when you can describe the PE file format, or ELF if you prefer, then, and only then, you can come talk to me about native binaries.
>>704011796
Wow.
Please thank him for me.
I've wired up racket to damned near everything. Hell, I got it running on iOS.
>>704012134
well.. i can agree that you dont HAVE to know what they entail, but it would be good to know many of the concepts you named as they have an essential part to play in concurrent/parallel programming
>>704012230
Only stupid if you don't know any better, the way JAVA operates makes it good for an all-around solution for non-time-critical system tasks and hardware, if you're a software developer and want to go multiplatform while creating easy to use software you go C or C++, you turn to JAVA if you're a company that just wants things done fast and don't mind forcing bullshit on people.
>>704012284
Uh-huh. The usual tough talk from assholes that think knowing C makes them hardcore.
I thought y'all went extinct in the '90s?
>>704012374
>Not understanding that JIT is a fancy word for emulator.
And virtual machines are emulators themselves, JAVA isn't gonna do some hypervisor shit at all.
>>703997768
Depends on the platform you are coding for.
Windows.... yes asm is definitely needed because windows programming languages, especially .NET shit, are bloatware. ANSI C is also good.
Linux... C would be my preference, or maybe C++ in some instances.
>>704012544
You have to know them if you're going to write assembly and don't want it to suck.
>>704005178
If you actually watch that video you'll see the guy admits that most people disagree and it's by his own standards that he considers it a programming language.
HTML is not a programming language it is a script.
>>704012688
Wow.
That's almost "not even wrong".
What the fuck are you reading that you know the what's but absolutely nothing about what they mean?
>>704012758
"script".. ok dumbass
>>704012707
for asm? absolutely. But only few jobs entail asm these days
>>703997768
I made a game for my assembly class that was over 10k lines of assembly. It would easily have passed 300 lines in java. Regardless that statement is a load of shit. Nearly as much shit as considering HTML a programming language.
>>704012374
PE and ELF are just various overlay files.
>>704012546
Java was created to solve a business problem: programmer commoditization.
It'll get boring jobs done without too much risk, even if you're good you can't do something that'll confuse the average, it's stable, supported, and fast enough to work fine for most business tasks.
*That's* why it sucks.
I certainly respect ROI -- I like making money -- but building a platform that inherently has training wheels so you can hire any asshole off the street isn't a good idea.
>>704012758
It's a markup language faggot. I bet you're a webdesigner and call fiddling your js together "coding"
>>704012758
no it's markup...
lua, batch, bash, javascript is script
>>703997768
The quality or seriousness of a prog to conjoin on a number of lines is stupid. It's simple regarding from what you use to do the job. Java and C++ needs some more skills, if you need fast results, then use Python, it's also mighty.
What you should use is more regarding from your approach (and what you want to pay for the compiler or so), some fucking things are better to bread in Fortran or other stuff from the Flintstones. You should kill yourself, OP. YOu are a faggot.
>>704013033
No, they aren't.
Hint: think: "binary executable formats"
>>704013086
Don't forget Python.
>>703998494
CSS Ninja!
>>704012697
Depends. I really like the new .net core just because it's not the same bloatware as it used to be in traditional .net
>>704013130
I don't want to comment on python, i know it started out as script but people are claiming it's grown into a programming language, and since i dont use it or care enough to find out i wasnt going to bring it into it.
>>704012876
Who said they did?
Asm is relegated to RE, compiler backends, weird hacks (that you probably shouldn't be doing anyway, and maybe...just maybe...if you're some sort of super-jock that memorizes intel errata reports....maybe...if it's a good day and the stars line up....maybe....just maybe....you could optimize an inner loop.
>>704012374
you could still argue that JVM is an emulator as it runs its own specific instructionset compiler ontop of the hardware. Therefore its a practically middleware that emulates hardware for running bytecode that ends up getting translated to machine code processor specific machinecode
>>703997768
I just use the correct language for the job...
>>704004060
>I'm currently going to school for Basic Computer Programming. I'll know a little bit of html, Java, JavaScript, and C++
I hope you didn't pay for this pleb level education.
>>704011954
Java is not simple. Most programmers are retards who don't know how to do it in the right way.
>>704013101
Yes they are.
Overlay files contain: Binaries for one or multiple kernels, the offset and size in memory they will be placed. Non zero initialized variables, along with their offset and size, BSS section where zero initialized variables are located(not stored in the binary at all). and many more depending on the architecture.
>>704013282
You can also argue that ketchup is a vegetable.
But know one who knows what the fuck they're talking about does.
Hint: The "Orange Board" of days gone by was an emulator. Those things that run old Atari roms are emulators. If you can work out what those two things have in common you'll know what an emulator is.
Hint 2: There's a reason WINE is called that.
>>704012009
Maybe, but you can do a lot with it when you own a fucking lame computer
>>704013232
It is still purely interpreted on the fly, so in that sense, it is still a slow script language.
>>703997768
in order: Asm (any), Forth, Lisp, C
Anything else is bloat (yes even haskell)
>>703997768
> IMO if you arent capable of writing a serious program (comparable to 300+ lines in java) in assembly, you're a failure as a programmer
What led you to this conclusion?
>>704013373
you cant run until you learn to walk....
>>704013421
Dude.
You totally just copied that.
No one has ever called executables "overlays".
For fuck's sake, PE stands for "Portable EXECUTABLE".
Worse still, you're copying something from a shitty source that thinks BSS sections are relevant (yeah, they're there for historical reasons, but nothing uses them and only about three people know what it stands for and they aren't sure.)
>>704013565
If you can't use asm then you need to learn it... but fuck going that far... would rather implement forth and then do it
>>704013555
Trips of truth. You're a faggot though.
>>704013565
Probably being a newfag.
>>704013578
With 10 min of sicp you'll be able to walk
>>703997768
>Javascript for tards
What the fuck did you said about my waifu you little shit?
I have PhD in HTML. ask me anything.
>>704013885
How do I use marquee
>>704013475
A: to imitate (a particular computer system) by using a software system, often including a microprogram or another computer that enables it to do the same work, run the same programs, etc., as the first.
B: to replace (software) with hardware to perform the same task.
and what makes jvm different? it emulates a machine with a specific instruction set to run the bytecode....
>>704013673
I wrote all that from my own memory and knowledge.
And we call them overlay files all the time, especially with operating systems.
BSS sections are still relevant to modern application as to save space and to not cause glitches in undefined or zero valued variables.
Only know Python, used to use C++ but it's antiquated. Want to learn Swift.
>>704000294
Can you elaborate on what changed in C++11 and C++14?
>>704013880
>no assembler
If you can't speak to the machine, how the fuck do you expect to tell it what you really need done?
>>704002790
> create program that scans all code
> scan a bunch of example code by students and novices
> OMG 10,000 BAD THINGS!! C++ IS BAD
>>704013885
how's the downs ?
OP you are a fag. Let me tell you that not only am I in the top 10 of the best hackers in the world, I also know HTML and Scratch. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>704014122
C++11 has lambdas.
>>703997768
Idk OP, I usually just write shit ton of PHP, Javascript, JSON, Ajax, Htacces.
>>704011370
I took a course in Bluespec System Verilog that was taught by Arvind
>>704013880
why is there no HTML?
>>704013841
you wont have learned many of the nessecary concepts and nuances needed to program in most languages.... you would make very little progress that way
>>703997768
What kills me is that if you look at job postings for developers every last one of them is looking for Java/Javascript (shit tier, the both of them IMO), and almost none are looking for C/C++. Why would anyone want to do coding work for a company that obviously doesn't know jack shit about coding? Do you really think their expectations of your performance are going to be realistic under those circumstances?
FWIW, I am a SR Developer and have nearly 30 years of programming experience. I am SOOO looking forward to retirement for this one simple reason: Corporations do not see computer programming as a profession. They do not view programmers as scientific professionals, they do not therefore treat computer professionals with respect or value their input. They do not ask programmers what the best tool for the job would be, they say "Everyone else is using Informatica this year, so we will be using it too." They don't ask the programmers how long it will take to do, they tell them that they have to have it done in 3 months. And then they wonder why their multi-million dollar projects are never deliverable.
Getting back to OP's point, each language has its specific purpose and does certain things really well. What language is best is going to depend on what job the program is supposed to perform and in what environment. It is no different than any other tool in a toolbox. C++ is like a hammer. Very versatile, very useful, and should be one of the most commonly used tools in the box. Javascript is like a proprietary screwdriver bit for an obscure Italian headlight bracket from the 1940's. Yeah, it might ahve been good for something at some point, and you should probably keep it around just in case, but you are not going to be using it regularly and you certainly shouldn't expect to see it in every mechanic's toolbox because it is largely irrelevant anymore.
>>704014096
Fine.
Wherever it is you are y'all call them overlays. But it's pretty fucking unusual.
As for null-pointer trapping with a BSS section, that has nothing to do with the section itself. It's just standard memory protection and the loader loads the BSS at low mem range because it's there, but doesn't do anything.
The BSS used to do something (even if no one really recall what), but that was a long time ago and very compiler specific.
(Btw, "Block Started by Statement"...but no one really knows)
I'm not a programmer myself but how easy would it be to make a cheat for a game, lets take Counter Strike for example. It would need to pass the VAC system but how difficult is it to do?
>>703997768
> lists all compiled languages as good because he doesnt understand shit
Though JS is a fucking awful language
>>704014015
How can you get the definitions right and the meaning wrong?
A virtual machine isn't emulating anything. It's executing bytecode. While that might look similar on the surface, it's a pretty fucking important distinction.
They have their own uses. Only sperglords write stupid scripts in systems programming languages. The most talented JS programmers could code fucking circles around people that can write a "comparable to 300+ lines in java ASM program" - they work for google and mozilla, and write the interpreters themselves.
>>704014795
Java runs on vm. This is interpreter technique, so it's not compiled language.
JS is probably awesome indeed, but C++ is much more interesting.... you can make so many great errors... like GCC guys, for example.
https://hownot2code.com/2016/09/01/bugs-found-in-gcc/#more-1096
>>704015102
You can make, and you can not make. Who is forcing you to make errors?
>>704014839
It depends on if byte code is supported or not.
It could be by ASIC. -Fastest.
Microcode. -Second fastest.
If not, it is then emulated. -Slowest
>>704015102
built-in error checking is for pussies. the most powerful languages leave that to the programmer to worry about.
>>704015102
Yes, there are billions of more way to shoot yourself in the foot with C++. But it is more down to the metal.
>>704014839
Think of every language as a machine
Now for C we translate it into the native language to run it while in java we target the Java Virtual Machine (emulator, interpreter, ect...). It interprets bytecode which is the same as some lisp implementations and even python... it's an interpreter for a simplified java
>>704012496
Will do.
>>704015032
Android uses JIT or AOT compilation of java bytecode (depending on version of android - and a hybrid of both on the latest)
>>704015439
I'm wondering the fuck why one spending his or her time seeking for a way to shot himself in the foot instead of performing some tasks.
>>704014839
Iv'e coded emulators for various hardware including NES once when I was bored, and I've coded parts of a virtual machine - the 2 are effectively identical. When you write a NES emulator you're writing a virtual NES machine. When you write a JVM you're writing an emulator for a non-existent CPU and system architecture that executes that bytecode - you could actually make a physical "java machine" in theory that executes java bytecode natively as CPU opcodes.
>>704015722
Learn the syntax of each language, that will cut down on it quite a bit.
Learn the system architecture, that will cover a lot more.
Then it's other people shit you gotta watch out for. Like some shitty API that has a memory leak, and arrogant assholes won't fess up to it.
>>704016038
It's not answer to my question.
>>704015469
Again.
That C program?
It produces a binary.
If you want to go way old school, the C produces assembly, that produces a binary.
That binary gets loaded by the OS and then executes on the processor. The lowest thing you can see is the asm (OK, fine, the machine language if you want to burn out your eyes).
And that fucking gets internally converted to RISC-esque microcode that we never see. (for Intel cpus anyway...).
So, making a huge deal about emulation is stupid.
Even making a big deal about VMs is stupid unless you're making an OS, a driver, a graphics engine, or a security product.
The only people that even think about are C coders that think producing a binary makes their cock bigger.
>>704016032
I did quite a lot of 6502 on the NES.
GBZ80 on the GB/GBC. -I have done some real Z80 on a few dev boards, and the graphing calculators.
ARM on the GBA/NDS.
Unless you are using a specialized SUN machine or some shit for JAVA byte code in some lab. You most likely are eating a lot of energy running Java.
>>704016358
Those are very common ways people shoot themselves in the foot with C++.
>>704016032
It might be a fine hair to split, but it's an important one.
Runtime translation from one cpu architecture to another ain't the same runing bytecode. Since you've made them, you know that.
As for putting bytecode into silicon...yup, just like Symbolics did way back in the '80s.
>>704016383
it's funny how close the jvm is to forth... almost as if it is a forth
>>704016667
But Forth doesn't suck ;-)
>>704016383
You can do microcode on the CPU and BIOS if you want to program for your particular architecture.
>>704016716
>>704016667
D'Oh.
My bad.
I was thinking Java. I don't have a problem with the JVM per se.
>>704016716
Exactly so where did they go wrong
>>704016740
Since when does Intel, or anyone else, produce a toolchain for their microcode?
>>703997768
high level problems: common lisp
low level problems: C/Assembler
OS problems: appropriate scripting language (e.g. bash)
html -> hypertext markup language (OP you are a fag)
>>703998619
knows whats good and fancy
>>704000303
if you want to understand programming, then find a problem and use the language to solve it.
There's a difference between a programmer, developer and a software engineer. Academics and business programmers (wow - how boring!)
For me, the initiation was socket programming (comms), multithreading, then moving onto distributed architecture and algorithms. When you see what you can do with it, you're a master.
>>704016831
Personally, I think it was an historical accident.
When computers became important, the hardware was weak. So, C was a natural choice. Hell, K&R created it to be "portable assembly".
Unfortunately, it was *really* fucking successful. At the same time, despite the charicatures of coders being "weird people", they're pretty fucking conservative. So, C got in everybody's blood.
As a result, here we are. Burdened by a shitty syntax and the idea that a system's programming language is something to be used for application programming.
On the bright side, the rise of the web and Javascript might help, but even that's polluted by C ideology.
>>704016868
Either you spend some good $$$$, and enter a NDA with them. Or you wait 10 years, and if someone takes an interest in the chip, you can do that. (N64 RCP is most likely the best example, of this.)
I've found a lot more microcode documentation on many BIOSs than CPUs.
>>704017221
So, not readily available :-)
>>704006283
I just learned COBOL. Is that good??
>>704017397
Only if you like making stupid amounts of money and can stand hanging around bankers.
>>704016498
When you drive a car there are very common ways for many people to crash.
Guess that explains why I hate programming. Anyone who likes that shit has a mental issue. Have fun coding until death fags
>>704017799
But there are more ways of transportation, different speeds, different capacities, different risks of injury or death.
>>704017799
But C++ isn't a car.
It's a horse and buggy with a V-8 bolted onto the back, the wheels cannibalized from an old locomotive, a plastic bubble from a derelict Huey tied to the front, and someone killed the horse.
>>704017986
You just have to learn how to drive a car.
>>704017913
I can't say you're wrong.
Or, at the very least, you might go in not having mental issues, but that'll soon change.
>>704018081
The horse was tasty though.
C# for Unity and day.
>>704018130
I'd prefer to be a passenger on a Air Plane, or Bullet Train for speed.
>>704018130
Dude.
No one knows how to drive that car.
Case in point:
Way back when Alexandrescu posted his ideas to comp.lang.c++.moderated, Stroupstrup, Sutter, and what's his name (famous dude from Oregon), all said: "C++ can do that?"
(Myers! That's the guy)
>>704018199
At least you got *something* out of it.
>>704018286
You may prefer whatever you want, why should I care?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyg_Z9QuFwE
>>703997768
For my work (mathematical modelling) I've used C++ for the heavy stuff (admittedly I code in a style that C could easily accommodate), Octave for the glue, matrix heavy stuff, and plotting, and have recently started using Julia for doing MCMC model fitting.
I've also been trying to learn Scala and Clojure, as functional programming is an interesting line that's good for some of the things I do that benefit from parallelisation, and I really want to learn a Lisp dialect.
A guy I share an office with codes typically in C++, but has done some absolutely amazing interactive modelling and data fitting with JavaScript.
>>704018415
Because even if I learn to drive a car, there are still bad drivers on the road.
It's not like Planes and Trains don't have their issues, but it's far less common. (Yes as many times as trains derail, mostly due to human error).
i only use haskell and clojure because i'm a memester like op. and a faggot.
>>704018478
How'd you like Julia?
That's been on my radar for a while.
>>704018609
So, you can't make me understand monads then?
>>704018478
Do you do super computing stuff, or single system multi core? I'm a big fan of both.
>>704018601
I don't care about them either.
>>703997768
Swift is great
>>703998712
Poorly typed languages are for tards, even the author of JavaScript said that.
>>703997768
C++ is the best choice. If you master it, you could learn quickly almost every other languages.
In my experience, only non programmers like python.
>>704019445
I don't get why people like to shit all over ARM dev systems with Python/Java/Node.JS.
Then wonder why the C++ and Assembly programs do lightyears around them.
>>704019230
Poorly typed?
AND C++?
Are you fucking cracked?
C++ might be slightly more particular than C, but it still has a fucking reinterpret_cast.
Oh, and a C cast.
When you say: "Poorly typed", you're thinking dynamic...right?
You're one of those people that thinks static typing is inherently strong.
Not even remotely.
You can't swing a linker without hitting 8 stupid languages that have static weak typing.
If Swift is for fags then I'm sucking a faggot dick right now...
>>704018738
Not him but i can
>>704019856
Will I need a degree in Category Theory to understand the explanation?
I'm not anti-functional (I dig Scheme) or even anti-Haskell...it's just that I've never heard a description of monads that wasn't trivial and made sense.
>>704018619
I really like it. Julia's syntax is nice, stuff like [f(x) for x in X] is great, it's really fast (fast enough for MCMC), and the libraries are coming (still nowhere near as many as R certainly, as R is way older, but Julia can call R fairly easily so that's something).
>>704018777
The downside is that MCMC isn't great for parallel processing, although you can maybe take advantage of it in the innermost loops, so it's okay for single system multi core stuff.
I once got a chance to use the same supercomputer that people at CERN use (limited to sharing 400 cpus out of 4000), but that was an exercise in frustration. After the time spent registering, going through security, setting up proxies and whatever, learning magical phrases, and still not being sure how to access my results, my code that had been running on my home computer for two months finally finished anyway.
>>704000294
C# is good. C++ but with more bells and whistles, less pointer control. I would use over java. I personally just do not like some of the weirdness in java. Anonymous classes, passing and defining methods inside arguments.
>>704020070
Cool. I'm a bit spooked that it hasn't hit 1.0, but I really like the ideas behind it.
Especially the macros.
>>704020217
I don't know that I'd call C# good, but it's very OK.
Certainly better than Java and somewhat less annoying than C++.
F#, Swift Masterrace rest is pleb
They all suck
Don't know jack shit about programming.
Anybody recommend the best way to learn C++ on my own? Do I need other languages?
>>704020266
I've heard that they're really trying to work out how to maximise the performance with views into arrays, getting SIMD to work and so forth (I'm no expert on any of this, I just use it and notice the buzz words).
In v0.3 I ran a Gillespie algorithm simulating multiple farms, and it was about 5.5x slower than C++, which is good but not quite their target of 2-3x slower. Took much less time to get working though.
>>704020589
Check cplusplus.com you will find good tutorials there.
>>704020589
Check out the Head First series of programming books. Great for beginning and you have a good selection of languages to chose from. Besides you can find older additions free pdf all over the place.
>>704020710
That's the important part.
I started out as a performance and size wonk (asm, C, even C++ is too slow...blah blah blah).
I've long since come to realize that the most important thing is expressiveness.
I even Capers Jones figured out decades ago that no matter what the language, coders tend to bang out the same amount of code per day. So, the only way to get more bang for your buck is to make that code do more.
That led me to Lisp (specifically, Racket (Scheme)).
All that said, it's looking like Julia might just be a better Lisp.
>>704020796
>>704020943
Thanks. I'll check them out.
>>703997768
I only know C, I'm learning Java now
>>704019967
Nope, it's on the haskell wiki.
If you want the full mathematical definition then category theory is your goto but in haskell it's just a wrapper around your function.
The state monad is just keeping track of a value as if you pass it around to each function manually (technecally it does just pass it around...). Reader is like state without allowing it to be modified and wtiter is a write only state monad.
f : State Int Int
f = get >>= (\i -> pure (i+1)) >>= put
Will increment a value stored in state each time it's run.
runState (f >> f) 1
Or
flip runState 1 $ do f; f
Will return 3 as we modify it twice.
I'll explain further if you'd like
>>704020589
Learn Scheme first from SICP or start with forth. Both are simple and will teach you quickly with an interactive environment
>>704020589
First, you learn boolean logic operations
then, you learn transistor logic
then, you learn how to build functional units from logic gates
then, you learn CPU design
then, and only then, you learn assembly language
then, after you have mastered assembly language (not dabbled, but mastered it), you learn C
then, after you have mastered C, you may learn the higher-level languages of your choice, but you will always use C and assembly as your primary languages because everything else is unnecessary bloat.
In your down time I suggest you learn modern algebra, linear algebra, some number theory.
>>703997768
Partly unrelated, but since I can't find this many smart geeks in one place, I need to ask this now: I am a fresh graduate electrical engineer, but my childhood dream have always been to work with animations (cgi, vfx, whaterver, technically anything that is about creating digital motion). What jobs are closest to my degree? How would you start the transition if you were in my situation? (what things should I learn/do?)
>>704021839
So, it's just a container to keep side-effects from bleeding into the rest of your code?
I am tempted to start learning javascript (shit-tier previous knowledge), is it worth?
>>704022055
but number theory is a must to master assembly...
>>703997768
>300+
My friend did about 3000 for 200$ or less i guess. Programmers life here is hell, too bad its such an incredible course, that takes a lot of inteligence to acomplish
>>703997768
No programming language is for fags. Each have a purpose and is adapted to something, that's all.
Everything else are autistic kids trying to sound edgy.
End of story.
>>703997768
>html
>programming languages
kek
also Python is not for tards, you fagget
>>704022342
>that image
>>>/sci/
>>704022342
Computer science today is bullshit... i went in expecting more than java, python, and one lesson on why c++ is used before we were back to java and project management.
Fuck that course(
>>704022342
>Philosophy
>mid tier
Ahahahahahah oh christ
Don't get me wrong. philosophy is great, as history and political science. But if we are talking about education - majors in philosophy are fucking ridiculous
Anyway this pic is retarded.
>>704022387
Python is a broken toy compared to forth
>>704022739
"Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes, biology is about microscopes or chemistry is about beakers and test tubes. Science is not about tools, it is about how we use them and what we find out when we do."
Michael R. Fellows, Ian Parberry (1993) "SIGACT trying to get children excited about CS". in: Computing Research News. January 1993.
>>704022931
Precisely this. Science isn't a collection of facts, but rather s method of investigation.
>>704022931
Yeah man, i posted the pic, but i think cs is god tier, because graduated programmers usually have an iq of 160 or something, is a field really close to purê intelligence, like math and philosophy
>>704022342
kek, who stated this ?
How autistic you have to be, for this kind of childish troll ?
Mostly JavaScript(Angular), gets the thing working and making money. That's what it's all about in the end. Sadly my boss (and me as stock holder) care little about computer science, and more about having a 50 year vacation.
>>704023115
>measuring intelligence by iq tests
you are retarded
also educational programms in philosophy are shit everywhere. You can be inly good in philosophy if you are already a scientist in another field, like linguistics.
>>704022178
Pretty much
