Communism only works if the population is on-board, and not a captive participant. If the human race was united and operated like a giant ant colony, we'd probably be colonizing other planets, solving all sorts of resource issues, etc. It doesn't work right now
>>680383057 Also, humans need an incentive to do anything. Nobody wants to work for free, right? But if you give somebody a reward for working, they'll work their ass off for a bigger reward. We're naturally greedy
>>680382233 dude, they lie and leave so much important stuff out, the kids in the last 25 years are so dumb now. They stop American history class after the civil war and totally gloss over the 2 world wars. They say absolutely nothing about history after the 1960's. Teachers leav things at "Marines shoot protesters over civil rights protest, Kennedy got shot, and lastly, a man went to the moon. If you ask kids how many times we went to moon, they have no clue. What the civil protest was for and what the result was, they dont know. And a bad guy killed Kennedy.
Thats all they know about the last 50 years of history in their own country, about their own lives, and their kids' lives.
>>680383081 What? I'm blaming Russian revisionists and contra-revolutionaries for USSR losing the cold war. Especially that rabid cunt Brezhnev. He was more of a amateur capitalist rather than anything else. And the results were... well, we all know what they were.
>>680380591 Communism is a kind of socolism but socolism is not communism.
Fun fact pure communism is basicly anarchy which is one of the reasons it's a flawed ideology. Socialism it's self still uses a government and is more about providing access to the people for basic needs such as education and healthcare.
It can't work in the US because the US is A) still stuck in the mid 20th century and B) Americans are all selfish and can't fathom the concept of paying taxes so there infastructure can be maintaind and people who can't get access to things like healthcare can have healthcare.
The US is the only developed country with no universal health or other social programs and it has a massive class divide and social unrest as well as a massively lopsided economy.
Hyper capitalism works so well guys that's why every other developed country abandons it in favor of a hybrid system of capitalism and socolism.
At any rate im not American (or european) and am so glad I don't live in that underdeveloped shit hole so what happens to the US is little concern byond the global economy.
However the US will collaps anyway and not much can stop that.
>>680382918 It's better let them be fooled for the rest of their lives, I think just by supporting communism they wont be able to obtain sustainable knowledge when actually they just need to rethink their whole political and historical beliefs bye guys not wasting my time and my words.
>>680383382 >rampant smog causing widespread and serious health issues >fathers murdering their own children due to vast overreaching government control >freedom of speech basically non-existent >entirely dependent on the economy of a capitalist nation
My education on history was very lacking in more recent years. Didn't necessarily end with the civil war, but became increasingly watered down after World War One. Very little touched on WW2, even less so with the iron curtain, and by the time we got to the cold war it was basically skimming. I'm not ashamed to admit I know very little of the cold war, and quite frankly I don't even really give a shit about it. It's sad that I don't care and I'd have to say it's mostly thanks to the severely flawed American education system.
>>680384242 Yeah. That's how it works. Why pay someone, supply them with ammo and weapons, give them fire support, organize etc etc when you can just give your enemy's enemies guns? It's a tactic as old as war. The soviets and chinese did the exact same thing for vietnam.
Saddam was a good guy until they decided he wasn't. Hell, Nelson Mandela is still considered by the ignorant masses to be a freedom fighter despite the numerous bombings and random attacks on innocent people that he was involved in.
>>680383707 Yeah? who writes your text books? theres a lot of crap on here about the jews. Jews control this and that and so much other stuff.... I'm starting to believe there is..... something going on, and it'll take 40-75 years to culminate. Kennedy said in one of his speeches, before he was killed, that there was a vast conspiracy to enslave every man woman and child inb this great nation and that he would uncover it. then "they" shot him.... makes you wonder when you start to fill in the blanks on what has happened and then why it happened, and who profited from it.
>>680384028 They aren't communist yet you autistic fuck, they're still socialist. I love how they make almost 40 an hour some places and they take home 19 or 20 home. Then they pay 2grand a month for rent. Gotta love that ridiculous cost of living.
>>680384206 then look it up your self, damn it! Every time you watch anything in the news, no matter how little gets to you, you should know why its going on and by whom. I feel that is the only way you can form an intelligent opinion on anything, Information.
>>680383268 “It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” J. V. STALIN
Because it hasn't you dipped. There has never been actual communism in the marxist sense. It always failed because people fucked it up and it probably won't happen in the next thousand years because people are too good at fucking up.
>>680385838 You said that all socialist countries eventually turn communist. I pointed out two example of fairly socialist countries, that has been that way for quite some time, that aren't really marching any further to the left. I'm still waiting for a single example of "all socialist countries turn to communism" theory which you claim is so well supported by history.
So, give me one. Or stop being a back-pedalling faggot and kill yourself.
>>680384590 Why did he do it though! Everything I have read, points to jews who were jailed by their own kind over debt to banks. Those are the people who were sent to the work camps early on, debtors! Germany moved to an all labor certificate work program run by the government to get themselves off the gold standard. How could they possibly go from being a super poor broke nation after WW1 to being a world leading super power in just 30 years? Did any of your history teachers touch on that? Or do they need you to practice and take with a learned sense of apathy about certain things like national loyalty and pride, and a vehement urge to hate other things like the holocaust. Ask yourselves why they spend so much time on the slaves being freed and how great Lincoln was, when the democratic party WAS the South, forcing the slavery issue in the courts and work place!
I'm not the anon you talked to before. I'm not a communist, but also I'm not a capitalist. I think that capitalism is inherently flawed since it makes it easy for people to exploit other people while communism fails because of our current ideals and political landscape. In a thousand or a few thousand years it'd probably be an option.
>>680387149 As an illustration of a fallacy it works fairly well. The fact that you are not capable of showing one thing in support of your >le greedy human nature shows that I can't be too far off the mark.
>>680386358 you speak out the very problem of the german society...we basically get told nothing about german history before 1912 ok jeah second class about kings luther and stuff but remeber that in an age of 9-10...i know the reason but i think you wont believe me...hitler built up his own ,,private,, army called SS they were equipped with the best what german engineers were capable of to this time...but where they get all the money from that ? someone figured out that some of the bush's were ,,close,, friends to hitler...there is an video were a old german ss guy explains how they recieved crates filld with dollars...but thats some cia stuff and who know if its true ... it would give a explanation
>>680387039 I disagree that there will ever come a time where communism can be successfully tried. Communism sounds like a good idea on paper, but all it takes is a handful of greedy people to absolutely ruin it. Even in its default "ideal" state, people are still treated like cattle.
Capitalism is pretty awful though tbh fam. It's just that communism is much worse.
>>680385951 I'm not blaming the jews exclusively... by no means. But if you controlled a massive company that controlled other massive companies across multiple technical, social, monetary, and supply structures that is now a global conglomerate... wouldn't it be in your best interest, even EVERYONES best interest to keep everyone working, keeping the lights on, your people complacent, their kids fed, (so they can be workers themselves)....
There might be a little more control going on than meets the eye...... All that matters is that you are happy and you keep going to work everyday. Thats the logic I have been forced to espouse... if only because we're all caught in the big machine.... we have to keep it turning, or we go live in Alaska... (siberia for the ruskies...)
>>680387350 That makes no sense. You claimed something that is regarded as an absolute horseshit by everyone who has any semblance of a brain in this century and now you act all offended when someone calls you out on that.
Pull your tail between your legs and leave the thread before you embarrass yourself any further.
Humans are naturally exploitative, otherwise you wouldn't be attempting to capitalize on your own belief system and essentially garner a profit by procuring a large consumer base of people who agree. Communism requires forced compliance with equality and deteriorates the initiative for individual conquest over their circumstances. Fuck you hippies.
>>680388342 >i don't have to explain anything so i'm just gonna call you a dummy
Quality argument friend. You showed me the error of my ways. Remember, everyone who disagrees with you is literally hitler, so you should just call them a retard and run away instead of engaging in any kind of discussion
>>680389134 >doesn't understand basic concepts of communism >says it's inherently bad despite this ignorance >gets mad when called out on ignorance >doesn't see the irony in comments on the "mindless drones" of communism
>>680387347 As an illustration of the fact that you suck dick it works fairly well, fairy. The fact that you are not capable of showing one thing in support of your >le i don't suck dicks shows that I can't be too far off the mark.
>>680389193 If you so badly want to know why you're wrong, look up the difference between private property and personal property, and then realize that you're a fucking idiot because you got the two mixed into one.
The autism in this thread is why I usually avoid politics on /b/ like the plague. The fact that barely any of you have actually taken a single political philosophy course is very apparent. If you don't know what the various theories of value are and how they apply to different economic/political ideologies, it's probably not a good idea to try arguing about it unless you want to look like a massive fucking idiot.
>>680390623 >If the human race was united and operated like a giant ant colony >If the human race was operated like an ant colony
I honestly think you might be autistic. You just want to get up in arms and whine about communism even when people are very clearly talking about the idea that human civilization run like an ant colony would be terrible
>>680390568 Very little. Product superiority exists and it stems from learning how to take advantage of the opportunities in front of you. If two people are vying for the same position, you are to draw from your pool of resources and compete for it strategically, otherwise you are forced into a lower rung of society to produce materials of less value.
>>680389994 Alright, since you're too much of a fucking idiot to take my invitation to actually do some research on a topic you claim to be an expert on, I'll spell it out. Private property in the context of Socialism=the means of production. You still retain PERSONAL property (in most ideologies that I know of), which means things that you use, like the clothes in your back, your house, your car, etc. They are not the same thing. Thinking socialism is going to result in a society where nobody is allowed to own anything just shows a complete lack of understanding of the distinction between the two concepts. This distinction is a necessity for understanding socialism. So why don't you try actually doing research on topic before claiming to have any of the answers on it?
>>680391206 if education is state funded there's incentive to get rid of these bullshit courses though, america has a far bigger problem with junk courses than pretty much any other nation
i mean i understand the "why should i pay for college when i didn't go to college" argument, but you do need more government control than you have today, i'm a neuroscience PhD student and i would never have gone to college in america at those prices.
Just face it, you Americunts have always had this irrational fear of communism. Throughout all of history you guys would literally go to any lengths to destroy commie scum even to the detriment of your own country, ignoring more sane and beneficial choices.
Communism is shit. It doesn't work. I know that just like everyone does I think. But yeah Ur deluded if you think capitalism is the best system there is. You guys are the most surveiled populace in the world and you can blame that shit on capitalism. Even if your u wanted to change it you couldn't. Even with you precious right to bear arms. The govt would Fuck Ur literal shit.
>>680392083 Not necessarily. In libertarian socialism, there is no central state. And what wealth would there be to gain in a society where everyone has ready access to basic needs? That's like complaining that you can't breath more air than other people.
>>680393120 >if education is state funded there's incentive to get rid of these bullshit courses
I don't follow. Could you please explain?
> the "why should i pay for college when i didn't go to college" argument
Not really what i'm saying. The point i'm trying to make is this: Taxpayers should not have the financial burden of sending tyrone and m'soggy knees to fail at gender studies and sociology courses. I am in college and while i'm not happy being in debt it's better than having my money taken to pay for worthless degrees.
The way i see it, the current system of student debt is more or less the correct course. If one wants to take a worthless course like feminist interpretive dance then they can. They can become indebted over a degree that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The whole point of going to college (ignoring basic self improvement) is to increase your worth in be able to make more money. Because of this people are dissuaded from getting an education that can't pay the bills, and encouraged to work towards a well paying position so that they can quickly pay off their student debts.
If someone wants to become educated in gender studies they deserve the debt to work off at their position at mcdonalds. If someone wants to become an engineer they deserve to pay their debt off with their high paying engineering position.
>>680394397 >Trump destroys the support of many Republican policians, divides his party with inflammatory rhetoric, leaves us with no clear prediction of the Republican party >Bernie Sanders won't even attack Hillary on her most controversial criticisms, and most self-respecting Democrats like both of them, leaving it down to a matter of idealism vs. pragmatism
>>680394348 well under a single payer education system, the person paying for the degree is the customer, so its in the colleges interest to give them the courses they demand. if those courses are easy and meaningless even better because they cost less money to teach than say, an engineering degree.
but, if the universities are, to some extent, taxpayer funded, society as a whole is the customer, and its more in the universities interest to teach genuinely useful and demanding courses.
>>680395195 http://liberalvaluesblog.com/2016/04/19/sanders-warns-that-his-supporters-will-not-automatically-support-clinton-if-she-is-the-nominee/ Check it, he's dividing the democrats to where they will either vote republican or not vote at all if hes not elected
>>680394348 the other problem with the american education model is that it reduces social mobility. you have to have money already to get a degree. sure you can get a loan but its a huge gamble, if you fail, or you can't get a job at the end, as is increasingly common, and you have no rich parents as a safety net, you're stuck at the mercy of the bank that gave you the loan and could end up in a worse position than where you started. this isn't good for the individual or for society as a whole. making college more accessible is good for everybody.
>>680394348 I see your argument, but your failing to see that the current system with have actual promotes and proliferates all of these junk degrees. Its all just money baby. If universities can offer junk degrees on the cheap and offer them at high prices they will. That's why your education system is so fucked up. You have expensive as all Fuck private schools that teach the real stuff. And everyone else is left to wallow in the unfunded state system. This is just another direct cause of inequality.
States should only fund proper degrees so that feminist interpretive dance bullshit should not get funded. But just a little something you should know, if you want to take the purely economist standpoint on this argument, it might be interesting to tell you that investing tax into education is one of the best returns. Who would think that not having less stupid people would be better for society? It lowers crime, health problems etc etc, the benefits are endless. All money you save from spending on jails, police, surveillance, and whatever else you need to do to fix how fucked up some places in America have become.
>>680395399 >well under a single payer education system, the person paying for the degree is the customer
But anon the same is true of the current system and we still have countless worthless courses and degrees. >>680396014 I agree with most of what you say. There is a problem with the job market as is. But i'm not convinced that making college accessible will fix that problem.
Being a high school graduate used to mean someone was hot shit. Then it was made basically mandatory and now it's not better than a piece of paper saying one passed middle school
>>680396200 But that garuntees nothing. Things like degrees should be based on merit, not money. If your kids a dumbfuck with a million dollars, he'll be able to pay for a degree anyway. Why does you have to Fuck over people who will actually be useful to society?
>>680396625 Its because it's so Fucking unfunded in your state. To get good results from education, you need to have good teachers and resources and shit. That's why the expensive university's have such good results.
Overall, educating people fixes more problems than it makes. If people get educated, they are more likely to understand the reasons why the rest of the systems is so fucked, and actually try to change things for the better. Instead of railing against commies or terrorists or whoever else irrational actor the govt tries to blame everything on this century.
>>680396096 >If universities can offer junk degrees on the cheap and offer them at high prices they will.
I don't understand why this would change though. The universities would just go >but uncle sam, we can't charge any less for our feminist interpretation of cartoons class, we have to pay the teachers! Greedy people will still be greedy. It's like how our state funded areas have an allotted amount of money to spend, and rather than have any excess and get their funding cut, they waste everything left over so that the government will keep their budget the same.
>States should only fund proper degrees so that feminist interpretive dance bullshit should not get funded.
>Who would think that not having less stupid people would be better for society?
Okay this is mainly a semantic point but educated and smart are too different things. I personally believe that the stupid/uneducated should have access to jobs and a happy life just the same as smart/educated people. Society needs janitors. If everyone obtained a degree in something then mostly everyone would be dismayed when they're unable to find a job that isn't flipping burgers even with their mechanical engineering degree. The uneducated idiots deserve a place in society. Not everyone needs to be college educated.
I would argue that we don't need to make college free, but make our high schools on par with the rest of the first world.
>>680397174 >good to know the right is only in favour of competition when it suits them
So if you became a millionaire in your life time, do you think it's immoral to spend money on/leave money to your children? Technically they didn't earn anything. They just happened to be born to you.
If that is the case you should donate everything you own to charity and move the Zimbabwe. You didn't earn the somewhat good economy that you were born into. It's not fair that you can get a job while niggers have to poach in national parks to feed their nigglets.
>>680397940 the thing is society only needs janitors for so long, we've been seeing a steady decline in working class jobs for decades because of automation, there simply aren't enough jobs out there to support the working class, and unless the working class has the ability to join the middle and upper classes its going to create a permanent underclass with no way out. you havn't really seen this problem in america yet because you still have oil, but ever since thatcher destroyed our coal industry we don't really have a working class any more, we have the university educated middle class, and the underclass who are objectively a drain on the state.
i don't know much about the american high school system but is it really that bad?
>>680398474 i actually do but i understand why people want to spend money on their kids and that stopping them is infeasible. I don't plan on having kids though so i have no idea how i'd feel if i did.
this isn't something the state should make worse though, we should at least attempt to even they playing field.
>>680398797 That's true. It's only a matter of time until most workers are phased out by robots. We might still have a few good decades though. Anyway that's beside the point.
>is it really that bad?
It's not completely terrible but yeah it is pretty bad. Most Americans don't even have a decent grasp on their own country's history, and it's a failure of the schools. We're not all complete retards but like most stereotypes, the one of the ignorant American is based in fact.
>>680398474 But this is such a moot point it's retarded. If you have money already, then you don't need to worry about any of this shit. You've got everything you need anyway. But the greater majority of people don't and this is why them going to university is a non issue. How does it effect your kids? That they might have to compete with the poor kids on merit? That's the whole freaking point of university. To produce the best for society. Fuck your money if your kid is a dumbass.
>>680399231 I have the opinion that taking money out of a family after it has been more or less fairly (at least legally) earned is very much immoral. But that's the problem with arguments based on morality: Morality is entirely subjective.
>>680399809 So you shouldn't be able to give your son a better life than you had? That's all any parent really wants. They want to be able to make it so their child never goes hungry and has a better life than they had.
What is the alternative? The child of a millionaire being forced into the same poverty that his father worked his way out of?
>>680399620 i dunno if ours is any better, we start specialising at the age of 14, i haven't studied anything that wasn't biology chemistry or physics since i was 16. from what i hear you guys still study a wide variety of topics right the way through university, i don't know which system has better outcomes.
>>680399842 yeah taxation is theft, theres no way around that, if you can't opt out of something you can't consent to it. but libertarianism doesn't work and we need a state, and since we have a state i'd much rather the state actually provide the few services its better at providing than the free market, otherwise its just robbing you for nothing.
>>680400148 But he can! Your Fucking rich. No one is stopping your kid from having a better life than you due to all your life long hard work. That's not Gonna stop your kid from being a complete deadshit if he wants to. Not like you can control his life.
That is not the alternative I'm presenting here. Your jumping to conclusions way to far and you think the sky is Gonna fall and your precious little delicate child's head if you make it even a tiny bit easier for not rich people to have a fighting chance at being mediocre.
>>680400166 Again, it's all subjective. I would argue that it's immoral to spam the TV with advertisements for shitty Apple products until brainless hipsters spend their parents money on them, but there is no law against it so maybe i'm alone in that.
>>680400340 It's true. I'm on my way to a mechanical engineering degree and some of my first classes were english writing and history. Our public schools are pretty much entirely a basic range of subjects with the exception of a few electives like woodshop, graphic design or small engines that we get access to in high and middle school. You're a britbong right? It almost sounds to me like amerifat schools are better in at least one aspect, even if they do fall flat in general.
>>680383894 But doesn't he have a plan on taxing the richest more, whereas the poorer people don't get taxed at all? That sounds like a good idea to me, but his other ideas makes me question his knowledge on basic economics >sorry for implying he has any
>>680400749 No fuck that, the rich get richer until the poor are educated, and being rich I see that that the there is no benefit in it for me to have poor people calling the shots in anything besides what shit hole they call home next or thinking quitting mcdonalds for wendys is freedom
>>680398797 I have to disagree. There will always be service jobs (minimum wage.) The problem is that the working class jobs are going away (manufacturing, skilled services.) More middle class are actually resorting to working class jobs. The socialist thing to do is to raise up those jobs to living wage standards. The capitalist option is to make more jobs. That isnt happening though. The corporations are too deeply embedded in politics, making sure new business has no chance. Cutting reliance on oil could actually help the US. That would influence much more technological progress and change of corporate regimes. Look at tesla. How bad are the oil tycoons shitting themselves instead of investing in battery technology.
>>680400927 yeah, our schools aren't exactly utopian either, although we have started teaching programming in early high school which i think is a great move. we still have stuff like religious studies which is kind of ridiculous.
>>680400749 > No one is stopping your kid from having a better life than you due to all your life long hard work. Well that's actually the point that we're discussing. I hope i'm not misrepresenting the other anon's point when i say that he believes it's immoral for money to get passed along to the children of the one who earned it
>That's not Gonna stop your kid from being a complete deadshit if he wants to. Not like you can control his life.
>>680400927 But do you recognise that a hyper capitalist system forces companies to exploit people in order to compete on the market? You can see it with the GFC and the banks. It's exactly the kind of thing that happens in that kind of system. Companies are forced to monopolize and grow bigger or die. Once they have that monopoly they can pretty much exploit the Fuck out of it, fairness be damned. Just another aspectt that leads to concentration of wealth.
The problem with these current elections is that politicians can feed whatever shit sounds good to the country and the people are too lazy/stupid to actually research these "facts"
I think Sanders has some good ideas but the problem is he has no way of funding/doing any of this. He also loves to shit on the banks and big corporations without giving all the details. Every debate, he can be heard shitting on the Wall Street bailout. Let's get this fact straight, there were two bailouts that occurred. The TARP and the Stimulus. The stimulus was the second bailout that came from the Obama administration. It was focused towards small businesses and municipalities to help them not only recover from the collapse, but also to slow down the overall recession by funding jobs and projects. This was over 1 trillion dollars that the govt spent and never saw again. The TARP was the bailout for big banks that came before the stimulus, from the Bush administration. Now there's a lot of back and forth whether this bailout was necessary and if big banks took advantage of it. The fact is that these banks were literally "too big to fail" and having them collapse would destroy our econom . We're still feeling backlash from letting Lehman Brothers. Now realize, this wasn't free money to banks. These were a series of loans, that as of today, have all been paid back. Further more, not only did the govt not lose any money from the bailouts, they actually made 15billion from interest.
>>680401771 As for the tax issue, Bernie wants to attack the rich hard. But he's not only planning on taxing the rich more, he's raising everyone's taxes. Rich, Poor, Middle class, doesn't matter your taxes are going to go up by at least 8 percent with Sanders. Talk about feeling the Bern. With the corporate taxes mentioned before, there is assumed to be about 2 trillion dollars in US corporate profits sitting outside the country. Now the govt and the corporations both want this money to be in the US. The problem is, the US wants to charge a 35% tax for bringing in that money. Now you can say that these big corporations have so much money that 65% of that is still a lot. True, but why would they pay that? The answer is they don't. Most of that money stays overseas and never comes back to touch the US soil. The only time that money comes back is when corporations are in a desperate need for that money to fund a piece of their business. In these cases, corporations find loop holes for bringing in the money, which leads to the govt creating stricter tax laws, which leads to corporations finding more loop holes, which leads to govt…...etc. There's many CEOs of big companies out there that have already made it publicly known that if the govt lowers this tax, they'd start bringing all that money home. Companies can better use that money in the US than they can letting it sit offshore, but bringing it in after a 35% tax doesn't make it worth while. It needs to be lowered to a reasonable number. 4% of 2 trillion is a lot more than 35% of nothing, especially when that money is going back into the US economy, creating US jobs.
>>680401144 there will always be some yeah, like, you could replace bartenders with robots but nobody is going to because nobody would drink at that bar, but there aren't going to be enough to support the largest class of people in the country. in fact there aren't now.
>>680401891 Some of the other things he promises just don't seem feasible in the US. Free public college would be nice, but to start, this would cost an outrageous amount of money. Money aside, this would also lead to public schools becoming over populated by everyone wanting to go college. Not everyone is cut out for college, and frankly that's not a bad thing. Pushing these people into public colleges will eventually slow down the curriculum and only strengthen private schools. Instead of trying to make it free, aim for affordable. Find a way to lower prices across all colleges and restructure the student loan process. I know 2008 mortgage backed securities left a bad taste in people's mouth but finding a larger secondary market for student loans can create more available liquidity and allow for cheaper loans. Also, stop pushing for this free Healthcare BS. US Healthcare is one of the most expensive but it's also one of the best Healthcare programs in the world. When people judge the system, the judge the price. And frankly it is expensive, but that's what insurance is for. Most of us never see the actual numbers. We have good jobs that offer Healthcare and for a few bucks a month and a copay here and there, we have the best coverage you can find. Free Healthcare sounds nice but go to another country and see how it works for you. Go see how long it takes to get a doctor appointment in Canada or why alot of people in England purchase private coverage on top of the free system. The US Healthcare system only hurts the poor and those on handouts. How about instead of positioning ourselves to continue to fund the lazy with free handouts and worrying how we can pay their Healthcare too, we start to worry about how to educate our youth towards a road that leads to becoming a valuable member of society instead.
>>680401594 That's kind of nice to know. I always thought out schools were just a train wreck compared to britanistan's schools. Of course I wouldn't know because I've never received an education anywhere except for here.
Personally I think religious studies are a good idea. Don't indoctrinate kids into the "right" one, just show them the beauties, downfalls and cultural connotations of all of the major ones. But who knows how all that works with the church of england.
>>680402101 Pretty much except the taxes wiLloyd happen immediately after he assumes office. All the benefits that are supposed to come from those taxes, like free education and Healthcare the way Europeans have, will not come until late much much later.
>>680402117 they actually spent most of the time teaching us about eastern religions, it was mostly a "don't be racist" class, which i think is fine for young kids but theres no reason it needs to continue into secondary school
i think our strength is that A-levels (our last 2 years of high school) are genuinely pretty hard. you take 3 subjects and do only them for 2 years, maybe 4 if you feel like flagellating yourself. i was straight As up until that point but it took me an extra year to scrape a C in A level physics because you actually have to do relativity and stuff.
>>680402406 to be fair, the deficit that the bush administration left, is still a thing to deal with, Most of those European countries didn't elect someone who can't read good to butt fuck the shit out of their country so they get to enjoy the benefits from making informed well intentioned decisions not poor historically laughable ones
>>680401936 Yeah that is what i was getting at... Conservatives are wrong in thinking more jobs would help. Not if they are shitty minimum wage jobs (a minimum wage that they want to keep low, or non-existent.) Redistribution of wealth will need to happen on the businessman's terms (they magically agree to pay more wages to lower class,) or it will be on the governments terms (taxation, wage regulation)
I actually disagree. Taxation is neccesary as long as we want things like roads and an army. I think you mistook me for a libertarian. I think libertarians are cringe machines.
Which things is the government better at? It seems to me like the private sector is always better because socialized systems don't need to worry about you taking your business elsewhere since they default to being a government monopoly.
>>680403063 the government is better when there isn't effective competition, so healthcare, education, security, public transport, and arguably services like electricity water and gas though i'm still not decided on them
>>680402881 It's true that the Bush administration left behind alot of debt but this can be traced back to two major reasons. The first is the Iraq War, which can be argued whether it was necessary or not. The second was because of all the bailout money spent before bush left office. Now bush only signed off on the TARP, whigh at the time was a huge pile of debt. But present day, not only is that debt gone but it's been turned into a 15billion dollar profit.
>>680403569 yeah similar downside, if you pick the wrong A-level courses you won't be able to do anything with them
like if you don't know what you want to do when you're 16 you might pick like, PE, philosophy, and chemistry, decide you really like chemistry, get an A in it, and then not be able to do a chemistry degree because you didn't take maths
>>680381451 Amerifag here I honestly see socialism as a great thing for small countries, like Europe as a whole is just kinda tons of little socialist pockets that sorta work together so the population isn't too heavy for one pocket to bear. However, over here, we have such a large population all under one government, socialism isn't that great because it would be taking more in order to cover losses. Alongside a growing American resentment towards the government it can't end well. There's also the fact that Canadians, when they're getting close to terminally ill and would die on wait lists in Canada, they come over here, pay money for a service, get fixed, and go home within a fraction of the time.
>>680403580 But isn't it fair to say that there are effective competitors in all of those markets? Private healthcare > Socialized government monopoly healthcare. Private schools > Public schools. Blackwater > Police. Car > Bus. Deer park > Water in Flint
>>680403063 It's not that they are better at anything. It is that they invest in things that a smart business man would never invest in. The government doesnt really have a monopoly on anything, except maybe the FAA. (lets tack on more airport fees!) Regulations are not the same as the government owning the industry. (ex: utilities.) "What they do best" Would be things like... FUNDING Research for military weapons, vaccines, pollution abatement and influencing education, infrastructure, and health/well-being
>>680404261 That's exactly what it means. Speaking of only these wall street bailouts, the US government gave out $426 billion in loans. Not free money but loans that needed to be repaid (the Fed also took equity in some companies). As of today, the government has either been repaid or sold off all its equity, resulting in a final total of $441 billion
>>680404176 there are different problems with all of these areas healthcare you can have competition but it isn't actually good for the consumer, since the consumer can't actually negotiate effectively on their own behalf. if the drug that will save your life costs 20p you'll pay it, if it costs 20 grand, you'll find a way to pay it. the government however, can negotiate on your behalf
public transport is another good example, because the UK had nationalised railways way back when, we have a rail network that goes to even the smallest of towns and a bus system that goes anywhere where it doesn't. america doesn't have that, admittedly partly because its huge, but partly because the government never supported public transport. this is objectively worse for the consumer.
>>680404790 >fun >Personal liberty collectivity doesnt mean that we sacrifice our freedom, it means that we understand that the prosperity of the human race is more important than our personal problems
>>680405119 I can't make heads or tails of this post. Are you supposed to be quoting me? Is that what this is? A straw man? If so i'll still be here when you're done jerking yourself off, if you want to actually engage with someone who exists in reality an not an exaggerated straw man.
>>680383937 >Fuck the French! Im French I have a health card in my wallet i give it to my doctor and it's free i give it to labs and test are free i can have unlimited test for free without delay i can go to the best hospital i find to get any treatment asap and it's free when i get my meds i give my card and it's free i could go see all sort of dotors all day long just for fun
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