Should the electoral college be abolished in favour of a new system? Or should the popular vote independently elect the President?
>>711575579
Trump won both.
>>711575579
You wouldn't be saying shit if Clinton won. Deal without you scum sucking parasite. Acting like you're in favor of a better republic when you're really undermining it.
>>711575579
No. However the Electoral college shouldrevised to work the way people think it works. Wjere you win the state, you get all thet EC votes. Instead of probably get the votes from the unelected "super delegates."
>>711575619
/thread
>>711575765
Completely agree.
>>711575579
Please stop... Just please...
Please stop now.
>>711575579
No. If we did away with it, we'd basically have 4 or 5 major cities deciding who the president would be every time. Electoral college gives the less populated parts of the country a voice and make their votes count.
>>711575765
I don't think I read that right. Could you explain a bit more? My understanding was that a party that wins the majority of EC votes gets all of the EC votes for that state.
>>711575619
nope. she up by 1.8 million votes
>>711575765
I think that all states should have split votes like Maine, it would ensure that regions that wanted to vote for their respective canidate would win college cotes for the canidate they want in office
>>711575765
Super delegates only apply to the Democratic party in their primaries, they have no direct role in the general election. I do agree with you that the idea of super delegates is retarded though.
>>711576262
Depends on the state. Some are winner-take-all, some allow the electors to split depending on which parts of the state/what proportion votes for which candidate. Most are the way you described, though.
>>711576505
I see, thanks man
>>711575579
No, It is the way it is because the founding fathers knew human nature. They knew people couldn't be trusted, and candidates wouldn't even bother going to middle country states with smaller wide spread populations. They would just go to coastal cities which would create an even more fucked up system where the majority suppresses the minority.
>>711576922
But the wasn't any middle states when they made the constitution? There's no way they could've predicted it as well
>>711576266
bullshit. IF shes up (which she propably isnt anymore when all votes are counted) its 500k max
>>711575579
Yes. I'm not even butthurt about Trump either.
>>711576505
Only Maine and Nebraska split their votes
>>711575579
I used to think it should be the popular vote, but that would mean clinton would be prez. So i think it should stay the same.
>>711576505
ah well I guess I was a little confused. But still the members of the EC are not elected and in most places could vote differently from the will of that state, right?
In any case the EC should be reformed, the popular vote idea doesnt work because of the cultural differences in states. One state could decide for everyone, and thats not cool either.
>>711575619
No he didnt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/us2016/results
>>711577007
They didnt need to predict it, they already had it in the original 13 states. Cities and farmlands were around back then too. The founding fathers were all about checks and balances.
>>711577007
His core idea is correct though. Direct democracy means that whatever majority group at the time can have free reign to influence the government to the opinions of the time, even if those opinions trample human rights of minorities of the citizens in general. It's meant as a safeguard to protect the rights that they saw (and I believe still absolutely are) unalienable no matter the time or current public climate.
>>711577256
Again, the state decides how it's electors cast their votes. Some have their electors bound to the popular vote from their area of the state, and some have it so that their electors could cast their vote however they want, even if their representative area voted opposite from them. However that rarely happens, for obvious reasons.
>>711577007
That's why it's amazing. They looked at Greek and Roman Philosophpers who wrote and studied human nature. They saw that humans are greedy and lie. The common person will not read a single notable article or policy that the candidate proposes. They will usually see titles that convey some type of strong emotion. Like
Obbama's thing was "Change," he promised change. He said we're going to change America. He appealed to the emotions of the voters not his actual policies. Character is an aspect to a strong candidate, but policies and intentions are what really matter. I guarantee both Hillary and trump lied profusely just to get the votes. So with an Electoral College, It takes the responsibility out of the hands of the people. They won't have to study up on each candidate. The popular vote is actually voting for the democratic or republican representative in the electoral college. It's the people's responsibility to vote for candidates in the electorate who represent their views.
>>711577480
ok thanks. I think we are agreeing, Im just saying all EC should vote the way their population says to. As in bound by law.
>>711575579
fak u OP, you worthlesss lib
>>711577874
If it was bound by law then the populist would have the power. People just need to realize when it comes to voting for local gov within the state is much more important than the actual presidential election.
>>711575619
That wasn't the question cocksucker. He won. Get his dick out of your mouth already. Jesus baby fucking christ
>>711577874
I see what you mean, and I think I'd tend to agree but I just haven't done enough research into it to make a formalized opinion. Even if all electors were bound to the popular vote of their region, it would still certainly be a safeguard against the mob rule that the framers feared, but I'm sure there was a legitimate reason at some point that caused some states to leave their electors technically unbound, I'd just need to look into it and see if I agree with the reasoning.
Back in high school and all I thought (probably like most stupid teenagers) that direct democracy/absolute popular vote of the people was infallible. Since taking a few government classes in college though, and those with an exceptional professor, I've realized the importance of "saving the people from themselves" so to speak. It's a fine line of giving government enough power to act for the good of the people even if it's against the popular opinion, and giving it too much power as to start trampling rights and liberties.
>>711578033
Not necessarily, though I see where you're coming from. The electors in states represent regions of that state, so it gives an ability to separate the regional opinions and differences inherent within states and continue to give less-populated areas a voice.
Honestly, I think what I would be okay with is having electors be bound to the vote of their region, but make it so that all states split their electoral votes instead of winner-takes-all.
>>711575765
There are no super delegates in the general election. Unpledged or 'super' delegates are limited to primaries and caucuses for the Democratic party. The Republican party has three electors per state that are seated despite the results of the election, but they are bound by party rules to vote for the winner of the popular vote. The General election is different in many ways, not least of which is that the rules aren't based on the whims of party members, but on constitutional law.
In the electoral college there is a possibility for 'unpledged electors' to appear on ballots, but this hasn't happened since 1964. Some states allow for 'faithless electors'; these are electors admitted to the elector college that have pledged their vote to a candidate and vote against that candidate. A faithless elector essentially is voting against the popular vote that gave them their seat, but this has only happened twice this this century. In 2004 an elector from Minnesota seemingly accidentally vote for Edwards instead of Kerry and Edwards and in 2000 Barbara Lett-Simmons chose not to vote in protest of residents of Washington D.C.lacking voting representation in congress.
>>711575579
I think each state should have its own president. Need leaders closer to home
The electoral college helps level out the advantage that cities like NYC and LA have over the rest of the country
Yes. Democracy, constitutional/ democratic republic is the people's vote, not a select few. It should be the popular vote.
If you support the electoral college, understand this also means that the electoral college can vote however they want. They don't have to put in trump. They could put in Hillary or Bernie or whoever the fuck they want. Understand that. It's a double edge sword so don't cry if they do something like that.
sup niggers,
eurofag here
does the popular vote count for anything?
or are the americans just fucking retarded and make a big deal about castting a meaningless vote?
>>711578289
But donald dick tastes so good. Why do you think Milo supported him so much.
>>711578611
Literally sit down and learn about what you're talking about. Hell even actually reading this thread would've probably prevented you from posting your dumb-ass assumptions about our electoral system.
>>711575579
Electoral college is fine, its some what fair and prevents the smaller states from being ignored entirely (though not entirely, but it works out better than popular vote)
Adding a Ranked Choice would be ideal. If we could get rid of the primary process, that would be even better. Eliminating the 2 party system would be the end goal.
>>711578618
A lot of the time the president gets the popular vote as well as the electoral college vote, but not always. It directly influences the electoral college, so without it the system wouldn't work at all. It just isn't the main force but rather a component to it.
It absolutely counts when you get to the state level and lower though, which is where citizens should honestly have most of their focus throughout the year but instead know the least about.
If there is a electoral win and popular loss the Electoral loser is now the vice president.
>>711578618
We go by states. The votes within the states decide how the state goes. each state is worth a given number of electorates.
The popular vote is just a nationwide count of how everyone voted, so no, under the current system, it has no real meaning. It's just a number.
I find it hard to believe that no one has pointed out the real reason to get rid of the electoral college. The party that has control when districts are drawn is given a substantial unfair advantage in all elections until the districts are redrawn again. This is known as gerrymandering taking it's name from Governor Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts. This problem has been going on for some time as this term was coined by the Boston Gazette on March 26th 1812.
>>711579237
The president isn't elected by popular vote, but the figure still has meaning. A candidate that wins the election, but loses the popular vote can't claim a mandate without appearing ridiculous.
>>711575758
Yer dum.
>>711575579
Yes - abolish the tired ass electoral college. Twice in my lifetime it went against the will of the people. also - this is proof that it doesn't protect against charlatans - that is, if they actually vote this fucking shit stain into office.
You whiny libtards fucking make me sick. When the system works for you, you turn around and say "Suck it, we won, get over it". When you lose, ahhh shit, "The system is flawed, we need to change it, so we can win some more". Fuck off!!
That disgusting cunt Clinton was the reason you lost, even with all the media bias in the world you couldn't pull off a win with her.
>>711579303
You realize Dems and Republicans do this right? Its part of the reason we have such a high overall incumbency rate for Reps and Dems.
>>711575579
>Should the electoral college be abolished in favour of a new system? Or should the popular vote independently elect the President?
Fuck no to either.
Giving the big coastal populations in CA and New England exclusive access to political power is fucking absurd.
>>711579303
>in all elections
Except for the presidential election, you can't just redraw states to cater to your votes.
And even in a direct democracy gerrymandering is a problem. Electoral college just makes it a little be more efficient.
>>711579668
Oh the irony of your comment. Trump himself said the election was rigged if he lost
>>711578974
No, but before the 1804 the runner up in the presidential election became vice president. This seems like a strange notion now. Personally, I think that such a system almost promotes assassination.
>>711578399
Yeah, I get that, but that might make for really close elections.
>>711579668
Not really M8. It's sort of the same on both sides. If conservatives lost elections & won the popular vote, they'd be throwing a shit fit too.
citations:
>NoBama
>lock her up
etc.
>>711575579
Brah you gotta chill. Have you ever picked up litter?
>>711579922
Lol at people who don't understand math. Such a dumb argument.
>>711579668
It's funny because that's exactly what the EC prevents; fickle changes where the party in power changes the government to suit their specific need at the time.
It's so hilarious and sad at the same time how little people are informed on their own government and it's purposes.
>>711579303
Gerrymandering maps are some of my favs just for how ridiculous they are
>>711575579
>>711579668
Are you serious? Conservatives were bitching about the electoral college all the way up to the election, and then they turned around and shut up as soon as Trump won. Hypocrisy at its finest right here
Hey, I voted for Trump because Hilary would be fucking death for our country but I completely agree that the electoral college system should be left behind. Yes, all these whiney crybaby democrats are just making a fuss because their candidate could've won, but It definitely should be the people who decide who leads them, not more leaders of the people.
>>711575579
Other countries don't use this electoral college thing because it fucking sucks ass.
The sooner you realise that every voice counts independantly the sooner you can get the president people actually want.
>>711576266
631,000 dumb ass
>>711580151
I think you meant to say,'what they're supposed to prevent.'
>>711580384
See >>711580178
Popular vote works in a small country with generally similar economic and geographical situations. Some states in the U.S. could qualify as countries. That's why they have the EC you stupid fuck.
>Liberals tell Trump and his supporters to accept the outcome when Hillary inevitably wins
>Trump wins instead
>Liberals refuse to accept the outcome of the exact same election
>The hypocrisy is either completely lost on them or they're mentally ill enough that they don't care
I bet you faggots wouldn't be crying this much if the US was continuing on its path of provoking Russia and destabilizing the Middle East even further.
Pic related, it's you guys after the election.
>>711579965
>> you can't just redraw states to cater to your votes.
I suppose that's true with the exclusion of Maine and Nebraska.
>>711580525
Do you think fucking russia has electoral colleges or china?
>>711578628
>donald dick tastes so good
The trick is in finding it.
Without strict voter ID laws fuck no. Toss out all the illegal, dead voters and she loses by millions.
>>711580075
>Have you ever picked up litter?
Kittens?
>>711575758
Trump literally said that if he lost he wouldn't accept the results.
Both sides are the exact same shit
>>711580631
Do you think things went well in Russia or China when the city tried telling countrymen how to harvest?
>>711579668
>>711579984
Clinton did rig the primaries, had more friends in high positions, and used them to bring nearly the entire weight of the political system and news media down on the Trump campaign and still lost mostly because she is so unappealing. The system was as rigged against him as it could possibly be without an outright fraudulent vote. IIRC there was less turnout on both sides than last election and she still couldn't win, that obviously includes Mittens' utterly abysmal turnout.
>>711580110
Funny because it's exactly why the founding fathers put the system in place. Without the electoral college the north and the west coast would own the political system completely, at that point, why would the south or the heartland even bother to remain in the union? I'm from one of those blue states and even I think it sounds like aids without the electoral system.
>>711580208
>the oppositioon is a hive mind with a singular belief on every issue
Must be nice to live in such a simple world.
>>711580468
I haven't really noticed our core governmental system or the Constitution being influenced heavily over it's existence, so I'd say it's not useless
>>711580338
She really wouldn't have, but this guy stands to divide us more than ever in modern history. Enjoy your victory. Prepare to start rebuilding what he destroys.
>>711580648
this is illegal and he can be fined up to 100k dollars with jail time. someone should report him.
>>711579888
>>You realize Dems and Republicans do this right?
You think I know about gerrymandering, but don't know who's doing it? Yes, I know that both of the mainstream political parties both engage in gerrymandering. I live in a 'safe state', so I have no qualms about voting third party.
>>711580731
That isn't connected with the voting system and whatever the system Trump is president now and I just hope he won't start a civil or a nuclear war with noone. Best of luck to you americans and the rest of the world.
>>711579668
As Gore Vidal said, the Republicans and the Democrats are two wings of the same party. Madame First Lady President rigged both primaries so that she might run, for all intents and purposes, unopposed. And she still lost.
>>711580930
If a civil war is started it won't be Trump's fault, it's the fault of the populace.
He's literally less likely than Hillary to ever start an international conflict.
Yes popular vote for all. If you don't live in a big city your life doesn't matter anyway so you don't deserve and representation
>>711578501
Sounds a little bit like a governor
>>711580648
"Vote early and often."
–Tammany Hall
>>711576242
THIS
/thread
>>711581076
Well his idea with building a wall is already begging conflicts with mexico.
EC isn't going anywhere, it would require a constitutional amendment which is a pain to do even with a united congress.
Anyway, I think this is hilarious; the left lost the election because they were ignoring middle america, and their solution to this is to get rid of the only thing that makes them even pretend to give a shit about what the flyover states think.
Way to not learn anything from what happened on Tuesday, guys.
>>711575579
Abolish the electoral college system after Trump becomes President.
Either go with a strictly popular vote election or redraw the districts and assign a vote on a district by district basis, instead of a state-by-state basis.
There's something to be said about getting rid of the current system when the last 2 republican presidents were elected with a minority vote.
And before you herp derp about W winning easily in 2004, keep in mind that I said that they were elected in with a minority vote. I said nothing about them keeping the job.
Conceivably, we could've had Clinton, Gore, Obama, Clinton for 28 years.
But yeah, you don't change the rules before the award ceremony just because you lost. That's some Dumbledore giving Gryffindor the House Cup shit right there.
>>711580743
It doesn't do what it's supposed to do which is protect rural, small states, & protect the office of prez from charlatans. The constitution is a living document & can be amended. Soooo... Fuck the EC.
>>711581262
Average libtard here, everyone.
America is so big that the electoral college system is not such a bad idea. The electoral college was created was to ensure no single region of the US could dominate, such as the North out-voting the South along old Civil War lines, for example.
If it was abolished would that scenario be any fairer than EC.
tldr: No system would be 100% perfect.
>>711580676
No, literally he did not. Literally he did not answer the question. Then literally he said he'd accept the results if he wins.
And you, sir, are a literal moron. Literally.
>>711575619
nope
>>711581262
because 65 other countries have walls?
>>711575579
donald is in favor of abolishing the electoral college
>>711575579
The electoral college exists to prevent electoral tyranny.. which is what caused the fall of another former republic - Rome.
So.. what you're saying is you're OK with tyranny.. and you vote democrat.
Why does this not surprise me?
>>711580742
You're jumping to a lot of conclusions here, ya dingus. First of all, I never referred to them as the "opposition". I'm not conservative or liberal, I'm pretty well in the middle. Second, I didn't say conservatives are a hive mind. That's not what I was getting at. But there were a lot of them vocally complaining about the electoral college before election night. And I do agree, if we're going to have it, something needs to change. It shouldn't conflict with popular vote, no matter which side popular vote is favoring.
Also, did you even read the post I was quoting? Your little comeback applies a lot more to that statement than mine. Those types of conservatives are all over /b/ and they are the definition of an anti-opposition hivemind
>>711580745
>completely ignores the intention and most of the content of my post
>reads "I voted for Trump"
>reads "Clinton is death"
>responds as an angry Democrat would
>meh meh meh country is ruined I'm leaving
crybaby spotted
>>711579668
see
>>711581498
>whiny
>>711581405
/thread
Electoral college is completely unfair and the reason for it is absurd.
Yes some countries are less populated than others but that doesn't change the fact. If 80% of americans vote and each vote is counted independantly then the majority would choose the president and nobody would have a right to riot.
>>711581498
>disaster for a democracy
good thing the US is a republic
>>711581725
>If 80% of americans vote
I think the electoral college as a check to the voters is fine.
What I want to see is round robin voting where voters rank each candidate instead of having to pick just one. Yes, counting votes would be more of a pain in the ass, but the will of the voters would be better represented by the results.
>>711579668
agreed
clinton had all the right machinations on her side and still couldn't pull off a win
goes to show how shitty she is, she should end herself and her kids/grandkids and prevent her genes from spreading.. what a fucking cancer
>>711581584
I'm not crying. What I said is true.
>>711581528
No it didn't you twat. Tyranny everyone uses that word like people live under hitler. Faggots cried under Obama other faggots cry under Trump. Grow up look around we live in the greatest country imaginable regardless of at what week a person can have a abortion or what 2% tax cut or new tax there is. I hope a tidal wave kills off half the country honestly
>>711575579
>>711581405
Well no one said he was Einstein.. only that he was elected president.
>>711581944
>I hope a tidal wave kills off half the country honestly
As long as that includes you and your mom, OK.
>>711575579
They need to break down the states into smaller districts with the same idea as the electoral college. Like right now being an SC voter, I'm not as inclined to vote, because I've been pretty confident it will lean republican. Which it did. So why cant we do it by county or state districts? It can still be a popular vote in each district for a predetermined amount of votes. I'd actually vote if it was more focused at a local level.
If we went full popular vote, the system would always lean democratic cause there will always be a bigger population of leeches on the system than people actually wanting to get by on their own.
>>711581725
You would be lucky to get more than 60% of Americans voting ever.
>>711580864
>>711580648
He's also lying.
You don't have to show ID, but you have to give them a name. This guy is saying that he not only bothered to spend all day illegally voting, but that he at least five or six registered voters and which polling place they vote at. Of course all of these people wouldn't be allowed to vote after he voted in their place, so he'd be wasting his time unless all of the people he was voting as were voting differently than him.
I also seriously doubt that someone that cares enough to volunteer at the polls or even someone that cares enough to come out and vote wouldn't report this behavior. One wouldn't even need to confront him; simply take a photo of him with your phone and discretely follow him out to the parking lot and get his license plate. Then all one has to do is call the police and report him and ask anyone nearby to give a statement to the cops. The illegal voter would surely be arrested and this would probably end up on all the major news networks.
It's much more likely that this idiot think massive voter fraud is being perpetrated by average people that simply walk into polling places with fake names. I doubt this guy has ever voted.
>>711581962
And
/thread
>>711581778
Nigger you are beyond retarded
>>711581962
>danger to democracy
good thing the US is a republic.
>>711582139
if only that stopped whiny faggot libtards from protesting votes that didnt go their way
>>711581393
This
>>711581725
Let's just play the hypotheticals here:
>popular vote-only scenario
>far-left libs elect far-left president with far-left agenda
>pushes agenda for tighter hate-speech laws and anti-offense speech laws, inevitably going from preventing racism to stifling opposing viewpoints construed as "hate speech"
>political discourse is now impossible as those with differing opinions get sent to jail for "offending" and being "racist and bigoted"
>massive infringements of first amendment rights, which were in place to always maintain political discourse and ensure the country stayed diverse in it's viewpoints
>America becomes USSR 2, gulag boogaloo
>inb4 muh Constitution would prevent
no it wouldn't the SCOTUS is reactionary and does not PREVENT unconstitutional laws from being passed; that's supposed to be the job of the president. If the government is controlled by a single group/party (thanks to the POPULAR vote), it can pass whatever the fuck it wants, especially if the president was able to pack the SCOTUS
>>711582067
Me too cunt
>>711580151
Yeah it's really funny. I thought that most states tallied electoral votes by district not an actual popular vote. Thanks for the condescending rhetoric though. I'm certain you convince a lot of people to take your viewpoint on a variety of subjects. There's no way that you come across as so pompous and arrogant that people entirely ignore you or even take the point of view opposite of yours simply due to the language you use.
>>711581393
He got confused is all. When Trump thought he was going to lose, he said the election could be rigged. He has never said that once since being elected.
Maybe that is what he meant and that was the hypocrisy he was trying to hightlight.
>>711575579
"Hillary won the popular vote"
>not knowing that the "popular vote" is based off of statistical extrapolation of the electoral voting results.
>>711582119
>>711582185
They're mentally ill, but refuse to acknowledge it and therefore won't get treatment for it. So that shit's not going away anytime soon.
>>711575579
>a
Or
>a
Trump.
>>711577336
>bbc
>>711582731
What's your point? I didn't vote for either of them.
Popular vote should not be the only deciding factor in elections. The electoral college saved this country. Check a map of counties that Hillary won nationwide
>>711582331
>>reactionary
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary
>>711583500
Ah fuck, that's fair. But you know what I mean. They're passive, not active in their judgements of constitutionality.
Trump won more states than Hillary, so why should one states shitty opinion (cali/chicago) count for the rest of us?
>more discussion on /b/ than on /pol/
>>711583440
This is exactly right. The electoral college did not reflect the total votes cast but then again the total votes cast did not reflect the opinon of everyone in the country because not everyone voted for whatever reason. If you check a map of the counties it more representative of the country as a whole.
>>711575765
Super delegates are DNC thing.
They are there because Democrats know most of their voters are retards and will every know and then attempt to elect a fruitcake like Bernie Sanders. In cases like that, the super delegates vote the way the establishment wants.
>>711578926
+1 on the local shir. Especially with Republican presidents. The local elections matter so much more in your everyday life.
That's why I didn't vote. I voted in 2008. I was at college so I was registered to vote for all these local officials I knew absolutely nothing about. I honestly felt bad that I was voting for and against all these lower level politicians I knew absolutely nothing about.
And that's why the electoral college is a good idea. There are far too many retarded people in major urban areas that vote based on some motto like "Change!" and do absolutely no research for themselves.
>>711575579
I favor every candidate being given an ax and led into a steel - lined room fitted with cameras for pay-per-view.
Last one is president...
[SPOILER]lol[/SPOILER]
>>711583751
Because people matter not space. People pay tax and people have to deal presidents decisions so people matter not the empty space.
/thread
Further proof that liberalism is a fucking mental disease.
and
we have retards trying to argue with them, when instead they should be bitch slappin` some common sense into their fucking heads.
I have never seen so many people bullshited by the Soro`s inspired media outside cheering for and demanding their Soro`s inspired demise.
You people are a bunch of fucking idiots, if you don`t like the way it is done, this is a free country, feel free to fucking leave.
>>711583643
I got what you meant from the context. Besides, people use that word incorrectly so frequently that it's often best to simply ignore it.
>>711584338
Wrong nigga it's you who will end up leaving. This war has just started
>>711581725
>Somebody slept through 9th grade Civics.
This is part of the problem. You have to pass a test to drive a car, you should have to pass a basic fucking government exam before you can have a say in choosing the goddam leader of the free world.
Every time I see some retard that doesn't have even a basic understanding of how our electoral process works, it breaks my heart that their vote counts as much as mine does.
>>711581262
Because Mexico is such a threat. Do you even under stand global politics
>>711584338
I'm sure you felt the same way when people protested Obama being elected.
We're sinking faster than we can bail out the ship because both of our two major political parties are run by and for hypocritical narcissists. Republicans don't like the individual mandate because Obama passed it even though the idea came from the Heritage Foundation and Democrats spent the weeks leading up to election fear mongering about a violent insurrection if Trump lost only to block highways and assault people in the streets because their preferred candidate lost.
>>711575579
Here's my plan to fix all this shit:
Have a computer compile a list of people qualified to be President of the United States based on a set of qualifiers.
Randomly select one person from that list. Whether they want to or not, that person is president for 8 years.
At the end of those 8 years, if the POTUS doesn't have at lest a 55% job-approval rating as voted on by qualified citizens they are executed on live television.
Within one or two presidents, we'd have the best possible leaders any country could hope for.
>>711583897
At least /b/ is a safe space for no one so that's okay.
>>711584615
Yeah, bring back literacy tests. Those worked so well in the past.
>>711584612
>implying chimping out will actually accomplish something other than arming the police with more weapons
>>711578033
somehow you think that a state government changes how its electoral votes are distributed with a change of government, its not that simple. For example, california currently has 38 million people, all their electoral votes (55) went to Hillary, it doesnt matter if all 38 million vote for Hillary, you still only have 55 electoral votes.
>>711585249
>>Have a computer compile a list of people qualified
Who writes that algorithm?
No, it's set up that way for a reason. If you don't know what the reason is, get a fucking civics book.
>>711585426
if we go all out we might be able to bring back the sedition laws
>>711585249
My first act as president: have the idiot who came up with the forced-president system killed by suffocation. Don't change anything about the system. Just have that one person killed.
>>711584615
Give this man a medal
>>711585048
They are breeding virulent pests that are infesting the United States.
>>711585426
>implying chimps care right now
Ron Paul for Treasury!
Meme images:
http://imgur.com/a/b4Z3U
http://imgur.com/a/vA1Xc
Relevant tweets:
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/106011126889852928
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/701868541545295872
Petition
https://www.change.org/p/donald-trump-make-ron-paul-trump-s-secretary-of-state-treasury
Kikebook page: facebook dot com slash 224013991366744
Twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/RonPaulTreasury
InfoWars article, let's comment the fuck out of it with hashtags and strategy to get more people to help
http://www.infowars.com/petition-make-ron-paul-trumps-secretary-of-statetreasury/
Tweet #RonPaulForTreasury at as many people as you can.
#RonPaulForTreasury
#EndTheFed
#DrainTheSwamp
>>711584612
You are hilarious, faggot.
>>711585426
This.
Leftists are their own worst enemy. Nothing has proven that more clearly than this election. They had the most politically connected, ruthless, and well-funded candidate in history against the least qualified one, one they practically hand-picked to be their opponent, and they still managed to completely fuck it all up.
Those people love playing the victim so much that they've become addicted to losing.
>>711585241
WTF are you even talking about other than the liberal hypocrisy
>>711585426
whoa! found whitey. It ain't about who won or lost, its about an excuse to rob, riot and pillage an getting a free tv and gifts that I can't afford on gr.
>>711575579
TRUMP WON.
DEAL WITH IT.
STOP PROTESTING DEMOCRACY. YOU'RE A FUCKING DEMOCRAT. YOU ARE JUST ADVERTISING WHAT AN ENORMOUS FUCKING FASCIST HYPOCRITE YOU ARE.
GO HOME.
Let's ask Trump.
>>711585426
They had a few high-profile police shootings that were starting to sway public perception in their favor.
Then they chimp the fuck out, start shutting down highways, shooting cops, and basically making regular people go "Uh, nope. Never mind. Fuck those assholes."
And now we are right back to giving cops tanks again.
Where were all you faggots in 2008 when Hillary beat Obama in the popular vote, but still lost the electoral college? Oh but he's black and a liberal so it was okay then.
>>711577007
>There's no way they could've predicted it as well
There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamed of in your anti-Democracy liberal philosophy.
ACCEPT THE RESULTS. YOU LOST FAIR AND SQUARE. GO HOME.
>>711586331
Obamacare dumbass
A conservative think tank came up with the idea in 1989
>>711578501
It's called a Governor, libtard.
>>711577017
This.
Also if you don't think at least 500,000 illegal votes were cast nationwide, you're delusional.
>>711586545
That was back when Obama when the election but lost the popular vote to Romney, right?
How did liberals react to those ideas back then? Remind me, I forget.
>>711585612
It matters for swing states and states that are not dedicated to one party. For example, in 2000 Florida's popular vote was for gore, but the electorate voted bush. The electorate does not have to vote for the candidate that the states majority wants, so by electing people into the electorate that represent the majority they will be inclined to vote for the candidate that the majority would likely want. And the guy before me said it should be mandatory by law that the electorate vote for the candidate that the majority wanted. I'm not saying the states have a say in how many votes but who the electorate votes for.
>>711586923
Thats not correct. I believe its much higher
>>711586404
Just proves my point. Obviously, there are going to be people who don't care about the election who just want to break and steal shit, but it's counter productive to the whole "blacks and minorities are innocent" agenda.
>>711575579
Yes, but I've held that belief for as long as i can remember. I think the electoral college should be something that is dealt with during this presidency so that the will of the people is upheld. Also, i voted trump.
>>711579619
>this is proof that it doesn't protect against charlatans
It protected us against Clinton.
>FUN FACT
>The United States has the highest rate of incarceration in history
>No country has ever imprisoned more people simultaneously than the USA
>EVER
>That's both in absolute numbers and proportional
>We beat Hitler!
>We incarcerated MORE people than the Nazis!
>Hillary Clinton was one of the chief architects of the Mass Incarceration policy of the 90's
>Bill Clinton was one of the chief architects of the Mass Incarceration policy of the 90's
>Both Clintons own millions of dollars in stocks of for-profit private prisons
Tell me again that Trump is Hitler, you fucking Nazis.
>>711582331
This is precisely the scenario that would've played out had Hillary won.
>>711575579
I think the top 3 system is best, abolish individual primaries, we vote for all three in a national primary. The top three go on the ballot, number 1 is president, number 2 is vice.
>>711579303
Electoral College has nothing to do with gerrymandering you fucking moron. The district boundaries have no bearing on the size or composition of a state's electors.
Gerrymandering is why the Republicans won both houses of Congress. In the past, it was why Democrats were able to win both houses of Congress.
You just want the Constitution thrown out so you can install Madame Fuhrer.
>>711575579
>"favour"
GTFO eurofag. We bested you and don't need advice or prodding from has-been once-was sunset nations.
>>711575579
No, because I don't want a handful of cities to determine the outcome of every election.
>>711585404
They do work.
America needs a caste system based on education.
>>711587007
>For example, in 2000 Florida's popular vote was for gore, but the electorate voted bush.
False. The electors voted according to an order of the Supreme Court, which ruled that Bush won the popular vote.
>>711587007
After the recount, the popular vote also went to Bush:
The final official Florida count gave the victory to Bush by 537 votes, making it the tightest race of the campaign
>>711586772
You don`t even have the faintest of a fucking clue.So go take a nap and wait til after dark to take your liberal freebie grabbin ass to the streets and scream as loud as you can in an attempt to retain your right to be a butthurt little pussy because someone disagree`s with your pathetic opinion.
>>711587846
I agree, welfare should only go to the amount of years of education that you get. >4 years of college and up.
>>711575579
>pfft trump wont win, even if all tards vote for him hillary got the college
>electoral college was meant to stop some craze from effecting government
>trump is the "craze"
>he wins
>OH NO THE COLLEGE IS BROKEN REPLACE IT. SHE WON POPULAR VOTE
>well she did but if you factor out the extra voting and illegal votes she is tied or lower but
>SYSTEM IF RIGGED AND BROKEN
>oh...right idiots who are saying this are super left tards who incapable of change or even a simple conversation
People really don't understand the electoral college system and why it was created to begin with.
>>711576266
Sauce or anymore of her?
>>711588542
What a great idea!
Liberals have all the best ideas
>>711575579
where was the outrage when she lost against Obama in the same way?
>>711589435
Survival of the fittest!
>>711575579
Democracy is like two jews and a bagel voting on what's for breakfast.
>>711588376
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/#13ce4564621b
I guess you don't read forbes. I guess that makes sense. You probably only make 34k a year. That's probably not enough to make any serious investments. Don't worry though; the literal tens of thousands of dollars I pay in income taxes every year will pay for all of those socialist roads, schools, WIC benefits, and soldiers you rely on. It does seem strange that a someone that can't take care of themselves or their family would want to diminish the social safety net they need to just get by, but I suppose I should be happy that you want to make your life harder to lower my tax burden.
Britfag reporting in
could someone please explain a couple things quickly and simply
1) what is the Electoral College?
2) why does it exist?
genuine questions this isn't bait im just ignorant
>>711575579
Democracy is like two Priests and a Shota deciding who's going to get a dick in the butt.
Democracy is like to shakes and a whistle deciding on what's for lunch.
>>711591705
>the literal tens of thousands of dollars I pay in income taxes every year
pls gib monies
>>711589572
So people that live in urban areas matter less than those that live in rural areas?
Imagine if everyone's vote was weighted with equal measure instead of giving Rhode Island the same say in the Senate as Texas.
>>711587290
Racist blacks and minorities are innocent and didndo nuffin. Its the crimanlals in our jeans that do the crimes.
>>711582161
Huehuehuehue
>>711575579
Everyone calling for the electoral college to be abolished hasn't take any political science classes. Or else they'd know the fact that the our country was designed largely by John Locke's work, who warned against the dangers of direct democracies. How direct democracies inevitably lead to a tyranny of the majority.
lol
>>711575579
Democrazy is like to coons and a welfare deciding on who to gib dat.
>>711591997
Rhode island? Mm not having that, now if it was wyomong were the green bay packers are then I'm voting democrat
popular vote should decide
Only California and New York will have voice during the election.
>>711591705
Are you even tryin`
Dimacrisy is like two spoops and a splatter deciding who to gooble gobble
all votes should be equal. living in texas shouldn't make your vote matter less than living in new jersey.
>>711591997
If we had it your way, people in smaller states would have no say in elections. Elections would be decided by the few states with the biggest population. It's the reason why Congress has one branch based on population, and one branch where every state is equal. You can't give the big states all the power. So you have to give smaller states a bit more power than their population says they would have. It's a way for them to protect themselves from the ambitions of large states.
>>711592443
No, this is bullshit. You are bullshit. There are more Republicans in California than in any other state. Just so happens there are even more democrats, so the state is always blue. Those California Republicans have NO VOICE AT ALL because of the electoral college. They may as well stay home, and they usually do.
>>711592594
I think so, but I'm not sure. It's so easy to refute your arguments when you don't actually make a point that it's hard to tell.
>>711592757
small states have the senate even if they're outnumbered in the house and presidency. and large states like cali and texas generate most of the tax in the union.
>>711575579
Yes, we should abolish it because it doesn't always elect people we want and because we're far more enlightened than the founders of this country.
>>711592757
What are you talking about? Fuck the states. If you are a citizen of the United States, your vote counts as much as any other citizen of the United States, no matter where they live.
It's not that fucking hard.
>>711592957
2 senators don't make up for having no voice in presidential elections. Which is what would happen to small states if we got rid of the electoral college. They'd have no way to defend themselves from larger states in presidential elections.
>>711592968
> we're far more enlightened than the founders of this country.
They had wooden teeth and owned slaves. They lacked the capacity to google literally anything. If enlightenment is measured by access to information, we unironically are a good deal more enlightened than the Founders.
>>711592757
if that's the reason then you might as well just declare every state it's own country seems pretty fucking pointless to insist on equal representation within a multi part system where you (your state) is a smaller part
>>711593129
You have it 100% backwards, dear. People in blue states often vote Republican, but BECAUSE of the electoral college, their votes are cancelled out.
>>711575579
Getting rid of the electoral college would be chaotic. That's not to say it shouldn't be REFORMED in some way, but ultimately it still serves its function very well.
>to give every state an equal say regardless of population
the election should reflect the will of the people not people in power so i say popular vote only
>>711592992
No, that's not how this works. Direct democracies do not work in such a huge country. It didn't even work for ancient Athens. If everyone's vote were equal it would allow the majority to do whatever the fuck they wanted with the minority. The minority have to have a way to defend themselves from the majority to prevent this. It's called a tyranny of the majority, look it up. Our system was designed so that the minority would have some means to defend themselves from the majority. Whether you like it or not, this system is what keeps the US from falling apart.
>>711592757
>>You can't give the big states all the power
So you're saying that the people living in states with higher populations deserve less of a say in how their government is run compared to people living in states with lower populations?
>>It's a way for them to protect themselves from the ambitions of large states
Can you give one actual concrete reason why everyone living in the US shouldn't have an equal say in how their government is run?
>>711575619
clinton won popular but trump won more swing states which got him the win
>>711593378
do you know how the electoral college works?
>>711593129
what are large states going to do? the political landscape is set up to be left vs right, not big vs small. they have the power to veto using the senate which was designed to give power to smaller states, why should they also have the presidency?
>>711593335
And people in red states cancel out the blues votes in their states. It balances out. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best option we have.
>>711575579
Idk can you just suck it and learn how to take an L?
>>711581368
>>
I'm red zone in a blue state (PA) dems would never win again look at the map that looks like VERIZON coverage
>>711592757
>If we had it your way, people in smaller states would have no say in elections.
If we had it his way, every person would have just as much say as every other person in every election. Only in this idiotic, antiquated and redundant system, for some reason we've essentially decided that people in Florida should have more power than people in Wisconsin for no rhyme or fucking reason and it's retarded.
>>711577336
Nobody knows who actually won the popular vote until after all the absent ballots are counted. Probably sometime in January
>>711592992
this
there is no reason to divide further
if you make an argument that each state should have the same weight as another then following that logic you might as well insist that your area code of some rural town in Inbredville with a population of 10 should have the same value as a area code in manhattan with 1000 people
>>711593575
Do you know the basics of America political history?
>The Electoral College system gives a fixed number of votes to each state, linked to the size of its population. Each state gets the number of “electors” equal to its delegation to the Senate (2) and House of Representatives (ranging from 1 to 52). The total number of EC votes up for grabs is 538, with 270 being the number to reach to win the election.
The idea is that doing it this way people living in smaller, often more rural states, would get their voices heard too. If the U.S. had elections based on popular votes alone, the candidates would focus most of their attention on areas with large populations.
That's LITERALLY the problem they were trying to solve.
>>711593734
then fucking do that
>>711593483
We're talking about voting for the President, not crushing the whims of the proletariat. Settle down and quit overcomplicating things.
>>711591768
The electoral college is a system where all states have a say in the election, some say is given, for example there are 538 total votes (3 for DC, and smaller states, 435 votes house of representatives and 2 per congressional district per state.
Its essentially and all or none system. what the argument is it doesn't seem to track with the popular vote. For example California has 38 million people as long as a majority votes one way the votes go to that party. So Hillary won 2.5 million more votes than Trump but still got 55 electoral votes. California has more population than the 21 smallest states combined and many believe that the majority rules only, without regards to the smaller states which might have different views and politics.
>>711580864
ive seen people on both sides vote multiple times
>>711593855
this, honestly you learn this shit in middle school.
>>711593542
Ancient Athens, a direct democracy, constantly fell under the control of tyrants. Why? Because direct democracy does not work. John Locke knew this. The founding fathers knew this. So they designed the system to prevent a tyranny of the majority from happening.
>>711593129
>> defend themselves from larger states
So the people living in states with lower populations deserve a greater say in elections than the people living in more populated states because the states need an equal say more than the people.
You don't care about the rights of the people living in the states right? You're only concerned with the rights of the state itself.
Well than there would always be a liberap party in office because everyone knows the cucks that live in California and New York have the highest population and are also full of 'acceptance'.
>>711593618
>but it's the best option we have.
It really isn't. We are the only democratic country on earth that elects our leader this way. It makes no sense, and it never really has, but because people insist on deifying the founders as if they were fucking enlightened Bodhisattvas and not PEOPLE (people who are subject to the same faults as we are), we keep telling ourselves that this system is some sort of godsend and if it doesn't seem to make sense it's only because we aren't as enlightened as the founders.
>>711594039
What im trying to say is that it would be unfair because new york and california woupd dictate every election because they are so liberal and have such a high population compared to the world
>>711593965
So you're against democracy?
>>711593589
Because those are 2 different branches of government. And every state deserves to have some influence in both. In congress, big states have the House and small states have the Senate. In the executive branch, small states need the electoral college so that they won't be insignificant in presidential elections.
>>711575579
>having a popular vote
>doesnt matter
>only the elects votes count
wtf u amerifats
>>711593750
well that depends, do those 1000 in manhattan take it up the ass? I'll bet they do. I bet there "vegan" too.
>>711593965
Do you live in California? Because I'm only going to give your opinion 1/5 of the value I'd give to someone from California's opinion.
Let's dumb it down popular vote equals mob rule and the electorial college balances out a Democratic Republic
>>711594166
Yes, because it is a flawed system. That's why we're a republic, not a democracy.
>>711575579
what just because you're still assmad?
>>711575579
Yes. The current system is broken. I wanted Trump to win, so I'm happy about that, but Shillary did win the popular vote. The thing is, the rural and semi-rural counties are almost always Republican, and even though they have less people they get the same amount of power.
>>711592874
Well since you seem to want to discuss the individual mandate otherwise known as Obama care here we go faggot.
Tell us all how the majority of this country can afford the rate hikes coming next year, let alone paying for shit tier insurance with outrageous deductibles, and out of pocket expenses that would surely bankrupt them. Even if you are not bullshitting us about your "tens of thousands" paid in income taxes, it does not negate the fact that the majority in this nation make less than 60K a year and can not afford this crap you and the liberals call health insurance.
Tell us all how the tax associated with Obama care placed on employers that takes effect next year is not going to be a job killer. we won`t discuss the tax placed on the Cadillac insurance plans. All these rate hikes, taxes and fines so some jive talking protesting nignog can have free insurance while the rest of the nation can`t even afford to use the insurance they are forced to purchase must less pay the fucking premiums........and who really gives a flying fuck whose idea it was, the bottom line is Obama was the president who gave it his stamp of approval, and he and the liberal politicians own it, ya know the ones who said we need to pass this bill and read it later, yeah that`s leadership at it`s best.
>>711594130
That's why you prefer a winner take all system in which the majority of the New York and California voters silence the minority voters?
The votes of Republicans in New York and California don't matter to you.
>>711594068
Please, show me a country the size of the US with a direct democracy.
>>711575579
The electoral college is out dated
And so is are two party politics
>>711593965
Okay, can you please explain to me exactly how, in a modern context, instituting a direct democracy in the US would result in tyranny? Like, same two term limits, same two party system, same primaries, same balance of power split between POTUS, SCOTUS and Congress. Just without the Electoral College. I want to know, beat by beat, how, under that hypothetical system, we eventually end up with Kim Jeong Un.
>>711575579
When I was a child I would have said yes.
Now that I have grown and matured I understand and appreciate it's purpose.
>>711575579
No.
Why don't people understand this. If it was a popular vote that got presidents elected, nominiees would plant themselves in a couple of large cities and promise them the moon to get high turn outs.
It would leave the vast majority of America out in the cold, with no representation,
>>711586705
that's the liberal way
>>711575579
Regardless, you can't apply different rules to a game that's over. Both parties know how to score so that influences their campaign strategy. Additionally, voter turnout would be different if every vote counted. It's ignorant to think the voting would be the same if the rules were different before it all started.
newsflash: they let trump win because they know he's ready and ripe for an impeachment based on pre-existing legal issues. he'll either get killed or impeached for the purposes of inflaming trump supporters to take up arms and freak out for the ultimate goal of civil discord and hopefully war (see picture).
You don't need electionsssssss.
You need a leader who will rule with an iron fisssssssssst.
>>711594360
Behold at the fool that doesn't support the Democratic Republic of the United States of America.
He hates democracy and the right of the populace to have an equal say in their governance so much that he has stripped democracy from our government in his mind.
I can't see how any rational person would support his dangerous and fallacious reasoning.
>>711594436
Which makes sense seeing as the country is the backbone of agriculture which is fundamental to the growth of a population.
The fact of the matter is if you live in a large city theres a large chance that you are an absolute pussy and do not understand what a hard life feels like. They dont labour, they dont have to worry about crops. They just sit on their respective fat asses and whine and complain about how SOME people MAY have been mistreated.
The fact is is that large cities are full of useless scum and they TRULY are less valuable to society and dont deserve an equal vote to someone who actually has to experience the issues that these pussies are always complaining about.
>>711576266
Difference is still less than the margin of error.
>>711576242
Better the big cities than the swing states that decide it nowadays
>>711594918
I cringed.
>>711594327
More voters are ignored and/or 'mob ruled' under the current system than would be if popular vote determined the presidency.
As it stands, there's no reason for a Republican to campaign or give a fuck about California, and no reason for a Democrat to campaign or give a fuck about Mississippi. At least if getting 49% of the vote in a place wasn't useless, the candidates would have to consider the entire country and not just swing states.
I moved from Phoenix to Raleigh recently, and the amount of attention North Carolina got both in terms of media coverage and direct campaigning (the number of times I got stuck behind or drove past Trump or Hillary on highways here in the past three months) is insane.
>>711594561
No they dont. They truly dont. Ive been to California and I can without a doubt assure you that those whiners do NOT understand what is important in a leader.
>>711595066
As well you should, peon.
I love how people are arguing about keeping the electoral system when if you don't live in any of the swing states your vote literally doesn't matter. Just remember that Trump has already gone back on a lot of the promises that he promised. Not all yes but a lot
Also remember that his economic plan wont help the white middle class so a lot of his supporters have just shot themselves in the foot.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/13/501739277/who-benefits-from-donald-trumps-tax-plan
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/13/501739277/who-benefits-from-donald-trumps-tax-plan
>>711575579
Maybe, just maybe, if 15000 people didnt fucking vote harambe, we could use the elctoral vote.
>>711575619
>Trump won both.
Nope.
>>711575758
>You wouldn't be saying shit if Clinton won.
No non-incumbent Republican has won the popular vote since 1980.
Before that, you've got Nixon with 43% of the popular vote in 1968.
Ike Eisenhower did OK in 1952, but prior to that you've got to go to Hoover in 1928.
Republicans just aren't very popular, despite all your "silent majority" bullshit.
>>711576242
>Electoral college gives the less populated parts of the country a voice and make their votes count.
With regard to the President, why should their opinion matter more? It's not as if the President is ONLY representing New York City, or ONLY represents rural Iowa. The President represents the whole of the country equally, and everyone should have EQUAL say. We have many levels of Government looking out for many individual interests. Iowans get to pick their Congressman, their Senators, their Governors, their mayors etc... Why do they get extra say in the President?
>>711595417
another article: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572172/donald-trump-white-working-class
>>711575579
Not sure it would make much difference. I was speaking to a friend who was in Mexico last year and her opinion was Trump was not really all that far from the average. Same shit here in the UK.
I don't know what they expect though. I mean you got Trump, and we left the EU and they are still fucked and will likely remain so.
Yes, definitely. The idea that places like California get to carry the fucking election triggers the hell outta my autism. I don't really get why we had it to begin with, but at this point there's no real reason to not just tally up all the votes individually, other than the Shekelsteins who benefit from it
>>711595417
Here is another
>>711595417
Sorry I meant to post this: https://mic.com/articles/159159/trumps-economic-plan-here-is-exactly-how-donald-trump-could-hurt-the-middle-class-and-how-to-fight-back#.SLJxI5kBe
>>711594556
I never claimed to support the individual mandate. You've merely made that assumption. I support a single payer option in which we equitably share the responsibility of taking care of all citizens. Greater access to preventive care would be a boon to efficiency throughout the health care sector and costs would plummet.
It was the Republican party that came up with the idea to force the citizens to buy a health insurance product from private insurance companies over over 25 years ago. President Obama eventually enacted this great reform and since that time opinions of democrats and republicans on the subject have taken a complete 180 because they make up their mind based on identity politics and whether there is a D or an R by their name. It should come as no surprise that a policy devised by the Heritage Foundation and implemented by President Obama is a terrible deal for the American people. It's often true that the only thing worse than the two parties disagreeing is when they share the same point of view.
>>711575579
"IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT."
>>711575579
Popular vote. I'm fucking tired of those hick ass states in the rust belt deciding every single fucking time who our president is.
![trumppeople[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gxvexZT.jpg "trumppeople[1].jpg")
>>711595417
>Trump has already gone back on a lot of the promises
It's almost like he's said things to the effect of his voters being stupid.
He did not actually make the statement in the picture, at least not in People magazine, but it wouldn't surprise me if he did at some other point in time.
>>711581405
I've seen this picture a few times and one thing that always comes to mind is...no one has said he or anyone else doesn't still feel this way. The losing team can't complain about the rules after the game is over...it was true when he said it and it's true now.
>>711577017
>IF shes up (which she propably isnt anymore when all votes are counted) its 500k max
It's like you never heard of Google.
But I don't really expect to conservatards to fact-check the nonsense that comes out of their mouths,
She's up 630k votes, and the total keeps climbing.
Face it, your party is the enemy of the American people, despite your "no true scottsman" narrative.
>>711594721
>so is two party politics
i disagree. it feels like the balance between the two is what determines our general keel. almost like checks and balances. a lot of countries have multiple parties. its the debating between them that opens discussion and allows for an exchange of ideas on how to solve any particular problem. too much liberalism would fundamentally change the nature of our democracy (to something similar to socialism), and too much conservatism would change the nature to something similar to fascism.
>fight me
>>711581498
He was, but it didn't change so he learned how to win with the rules that apply
>>711595417
Also remember that he doesn't believe that the real threat of global warming is real so he is going to scrap the Paris climate deal: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/09/us-election-result-throws-paris-climate-deal-into-uncertainty
