no strings attached, would you fuck a horse?
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Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
no strings attached, would you fuck a horse?
>>708342140
not another god damn furry thread.
>>708342430
kek
>>708342140
Anally. Yes.
>>708342140
hell yes
>>708342882
A female horse you faggot
It's a horse. What possible strings would be attached?
>>708343307
like any social repercussions or getting kicked in the balls
neigh?
>>708342140
jesus fucking christ i thought that was a nasty black bitch
100%
>>708342140
No thank goodness, my hormones have subsided and I'm able to say "no" to sticking my dick in to non-human pits.
>>708344304
it's a bucket list deal, also you literally need a bucket
>>708342140
absolutely, but to be honest i prefer dogs
>>708344630
kek
yes
Moar photos and webm please im horny af
>>708342140
"Would"?
Son I've been fucking horses since before furry was a thing.
Fuck no
>>708345111
Ever do anal? Have pics? Also, checked
>>708345111
those are some nice trips
>>708345400
A few times, pussy is better imo
contribootin'
Without hesitation.
>>708345526
My God, that horse beautiful. That mane is greater than mine.
>>708345526
that horse is sexier than most people I've met, and everyone I've dated.
>>708345400
>>708345918
hehe, thats all i have really.
I wish these threads were around more often.
>>708346076
>tumblr
Holy shit what tumblr has a horse taking a dildo up the ass on it!?
Its not actually all that weird really..
When u fuck a horse, u know u always have a ride home
>>708346460
Many have come and gone, tumblr gets buttdamaged whenever those pages are up.
>>708342140
Only if she was a pony.
Also, I would fuck pic related with strings attached.
I looked at a video of a guy fucking a horse, out of degeneracy/curiosity. It's actually fucking gross. When the mare cums she basically pisses all over you. It was not hot, it made me reconsider what a gross pervert I've become.
>>708346091
>tfw you will never run around at 40 MPH with fabulous hair
>>708342140
i just want to see a chick giving a horse a handy, or seeing two horses fuck. anyone help a nigga out?
>>708342140
I've always wanted a mare to dominate me.
>>708345571
inb4 faggots claiming anal is best
>>708347150
Bump
I want to fuck a male horse and play with it's balls and dick
>>708347150
Oh, are we doing requests?
Does anyone have anything of a woman getting a male cat off?
Chicks with cats is always the cat performing cunnilingus on her, or sucking her tits, and that's frustrating, cause I'm looking at animal porn to see the *animal* get off.
>>708342882
That moment right after she gagged, is when she began questioning her life ..
>>708344749
this
my dog is a great lay, she doesnt smell like shit, and she can sleep in my bed. i'd definitely give horse a try though
Yes, but mostly out of curiosity, obviously the horse isn't consenting or would just be like "wtf" like any normal person would be if a random animal came up to them and tried sticking it's dick in their ass. Horse bootyhole and dicks do look pretty nice though if they're clean.
inb4 "faggot"
>>708347788
fake gagged you mean, that's fake as shit. i swear, nobody has any clue how horse dick works
No. What the fuck is wrong with you all? Were you dropped as children or was gang banged by a pack of wolves, conditioning you to take it in the ass like a furry faggot? Well, it sure does seem that way. Remember when /b/ was full of straight and vanilla shit? Yeah, me neither because that was probably hella long ago.
>>708347095
when you're balls deep in a mare and you can legitimately claim you've made a horse climax using just your dick... You don't care if she makes a mess.
>>708348027
Someone's butthurt
>>708346820
moar
>>708348029
Plus some of us like the mess. It's kinky.
>>708342140
>no strings attached
wouldnt want it calling you after
>>708348027
/b/ was never straight and vanilla, the fuck are you going on about muggle?
>>708342140
>no strings attached
>fuck a horse
that's one long fucking string, man.
>>708348214
The smell is fucking godly. I can't count how many times I've had the smell of mare on my dick. Lovely.
>>708348027
i want to be gangbanged by a pack of wolves, sign me right the fuck up
>>708348487
did you mean eaten?
>>708348396
Do you perform cunnilingus on horses too?
>>708342140
Fuck?
I would make love to that mare.
I would treat her to gourmet oats and then gently lad her back to a dimly candle-lit stable.
I would start with a massage and then work my way down to her rear end and begin fingering her and playing with her teats/udders, listening intently to her pleasured whinnies. Maybe I'd try titfucking her udders if I could get a decent position.
When we've reached the end of the foreplay, that's when I'd gently slide myself into her and begin business. An exchange of fluids so hot and passionate that you can smell the love and lust int he air.
When all is said and done. We'd lay down together in a bale of hay, holding my naked body close to hers as we fall asleep in a loving embrace.
How would I ask her to marry me later? Special horseshoe?
>>708346076
more anal pls
>>708348396
Do they ever fuss? Or do you find that they don't really care/are indifferent or are there even some that come to you wanting more? Honest question.
>>708346076
Anal plz leave
>>708348542
They have an earthy flavor, with a smell kinda like cut grass. Hard to describe the taste, but yes many a time.
>>708348567
dem titties
>>708348911
>>708348567
titfucking doesn't work with horses, trust me I've tried. But they're good in doggy style, reverse cowgirl, and missionary.
>>708348685
They're like people in that regard, some love to show off and flirt with you. Others see you as just another dick that wants their booty.
>>708347150
>seeing two horses fuck.
youtube
When I was in high school I fucked the farm horse a couple of times. Brought a chair out there to her the first time she ran away once or twice but never had a problem after that. She just would late me fuck her. I would fuck her when I didn't have a girl to play with at the time.
>>708349106
how the fuck do you pull off reverse cowgirl with a horse? regular cowgirl is hard enough with a dog!
>>708349261
How does a horse "flirt"?
>>708349367
A lot of training and a properly adjusted stool or set of stairs. There's not much room to move around, but it lets you get real deep in there.
>>708342140
If it was guaranteed nothing bad could happen to me and no one would ever know?
Yes.
>>708349428
all mammals have well documented courtship behavior. are you old enough to be on this site?
Dolphin or horse?
>>708349443
I already do all the time.
>>708349571
hey ya were is the Dolphin sex?
>>708349549
lol
without getting kicked or found out, whats the worst that could happen when fucking a horse?
>>708349590
so fucking goats?
horse
Male horse id do stuff to. Im a straight male but horse cock for aome reason excites me
>>708346556
Lost hard
>>708349571
A dolphin is fine too. I'm more of a horse man myself. But I can appreciate the dolphin.
>>708349770
I'm not Muslim, but hey, I'm game.
fuckin gross....and right now on belznarp 4 the belzarians are on -;&chan w a thread would u fook a hooman'
>>708349571
dolphin is highly over rated. their pussies arent as magical as myths say they are, it's basically just a super wet horse pussy. unless the dophin itself turns you on, i'd stick with horses or dogs
>>708349594
>>708349938
Are you ok?
>>708349754
you get shit on
>>708350019
obv not....look at this shit
>>708346076
literally cummed on my monitor, sauce?
Standing on a chair was good for me just had to find a high enough chair. Cause I didn't bring the same one. I used the first time and it was struggling to stay in the horse pussy cause the pussy was to high up. I had to hold myself up in the air on my toes and pudding down on the horses ass to stay in. I mean I cummed so make sure to bring high enough chair to get to the pussy
>>708350051
If she takes a shit while you're fucking her then you are doing something wrong.
They cum that easy? Wow? Horse vaginas are that sensitive?
I mean its not easy to make a human girl to cum vaginally without allot of effort
>>708348894
I'm glad you do. Make sure to prioritize her pleasure over yours at all times.
>>708350051
cows man... fucking cows...
>>708350206
>it's not easy to make a human girl cum
Holy shit, yes it is. Git gud.
Horses are old news. Lemme know when there's a vid of someone fucking a lion, tiger, or bear.
>>708350206
horse sex is a very short affair, it has to be, they're prey animals. they both get off fairly quickly.
i've heard that like dogs, they're also multi orgasmic, so they can go multiple times in one session
>>708350192
>>708350231
Always bro, always
>>708350445
One of my girls is.
>>708350566
You sure love to make us jealous, don't you?
>>708350351
O lawd someone please destroy that bootyhole
>>708350581
are you lost
>>708350670
Someone has to.
>>708350566
Mine is, almost too short. I have to squat down to line up.
>>708350713
I dont normally go for darker girls but she's kinda cute. Any pics of her face and body?
>>708350743
Oh well. Maybe some day I'll have a marefriend of my own.
even tho I'm weirdly aroused by this post I probably wouldn't
>>708350754
That would suck, probably worse then her being too tall.
>>708350860
Sure you can. all it takes is the right attitude.
any videos of Horse fucking?
>>708351030
I do not have a good attitude about myself.
>>708347875
wtf man WHERE DO YOU COME FROM
Ah, but would you sniff a horse's farts?
>>708350983
Not sure that's a pony.
looks more like a young foal.
>>708351064
No mare for you then.
All the times I fucked the same horse and nothing bad happened just cummed you her and pet her on the head and said thanks see ya later. I didn't fuck the horse when I had girls around but I would when none where around. I fucked the horse a lot when I was 16 though. I remember I would drive to farm at night fuck the horse came back. I fucked her everyday at one point but then my second girl friend gave me sex for the first time. Human pussy that is haha. From then on I only fucked the horse when no human pussy was around
>>708351078
I also do my bitches too.
2 GSD right not, sex often and cuddling every night.
>>708351161
Hmph.
Maybe one day I'll be motivated to do something.
>>708351196
Woah you snuck onto someone elses farm and fucked their horse? dangerous
I wish I had a female pony to fuck back then rather than a full horse. Would have been simpler to fuck and I beat tighter. But just glad I had a horse around to fuck it was fun.
>>708351247
Only you can do that for you.
Step one, good job.
Step 2 good house.
Step 3 collect underpants.
Step 4 mares.
>>708351196
Please someone write this shit like Dr. Seuss would do.
Wtf I though animalfucking was just a porn meme and Welsh/Muslim thing. You guys are almost as as bad as ponyfags.
>>708351403
Sounds like a lot of work. I don't like work.
My parents who live right up the road have a mini horse mare. That I fuck on the regular. I'm not gonna lie, most days I'd rather just go to their house after work and fuck their mare than to try to fuck my gf. At least the horse isn't a complete bitch.
>>708351078
somewhere on the north american continent, at a location with a female husky, a female GSD, and a male GSD
>>708344749
how big does the dog have to be not to hurt it?
>>708351463
All of life is a lot of work.
>>708351414
Not really sure what you'd expect from a thread like this, obviously people that were interested in the topic would come in numbers.
>>708351495
Big.
Most huskies and gsd's I've had are too small.
>>708351196
I admit I'm guilty of fence jumping when I was a younger shit. Over time you find it's much better to have it at home, regardless of the species.
>>708351520
That is true. One day I'll be motivated. Not like it matters right now since I can't do anything.
Anyway, I need to sleep. Later, m8.
>>708351595
You can do anything. even now.
See ya round.
I'mma just drop this here:
https://www.gaybeast.com/movie/85750/maregasming
>>708351495
most medium breeds can take an average to slightly above average human since dogs have pretty big dicks. my husky for instance doesnt have any trouble taking my 6 inches
you'll have much better luck with larger breeds, but you need to make sure your living situation is such that you can keep whatever dog you decide on, happy
>>708351297
No man it was my family horses. We have a private hunting farm and had some horses. Only one girl though I remember when I would bring the chair over the fence that male horses would follow me and watch swear to god and one or twice I would look and one of them would have a huge dick hanging down and bouncing swear they know what was happening and liked it to.
>>708351032
on youtube
Imagine creating horses bred for bestiality, through repeat selection of the "right" traits (like big rumps).
>>708351414
You're about 5016 years late to the party... There are cave paintings of yours and my ancestors fucking everything other than a human.
>>708351714
>since dogs have pretty big dicks
But they work totally different.
you really cant compare it that way.
>>708351824
but horses are already pretty much perfect?
>>708342140
I'd fuck and feed her the next day
>>708351617
oh jebus, she even looks like a tight one.
>>708351753
human on horse ones
>>708351912
sure, they're fairly small until after penetration, but they still have to stretch to accomodate the male's full size. you'd be surprised what a medium breed can comfortably handle. ive seen a guy with an 8 incher fuck a husky, and she seemed happy as can be. he just has to work his way into her slowly
I love you 4chan, but dont put these fetishes in my head :(
>>708352209
is it safe?
>>708351824
That idea you have, someone else had it a long time ago... They're called quarter horses.
>>708352252
just tried it, it's safe
>>708352323
anyting not gay?
>>708351478
Do you live alone with three dogs?
How do you keep the male happy while the females are in heat, and avoid unwanted pregnancies?
I'd LOVE to own a male dog along with my female but I'm worried about what would happen while I'm away at work :/
>>708348029
I guess dude. In all seriousness, best of luck to you mate. Not my cup of tea.
Anyone here ever fucked a horse in the ass?
>>708352370
It's only called gaybeast... there's plenty of straight zoo on that site.
>>708351824
their cocks did get bigger during domestication
>>708352222
A lot of that is going to depend on the girls prior experience.
you cant just walk up to a husky with even an average cock and expect to put it in. that shit is going to take weeks of play and stretching to get her to the point where a human will fit.
I really dont agree with doing stuff like that.
If it doesn't fit, dont make it fit.
I've been doing this for about 27 years. I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about.
>>708342430
My sides
>>708352397
nope, ive got a wife who is also into zoo.
the two GSDs were a breeding pair until the female started having some health issues, so we did the responsible thing and stopped breeding her. now we just make sure to jerk/suck the male off a few times per day when the girls are in heat.
the female GSD isnt interested in sex outside of heat, so i stick with my husky most nights. between her and my wife, i'm well cared for
>>708352725
>I've been doing this for about 27 years
wat
Why the hell are so many people so obsessed with ass fucking?
do you have weird shit fetishes?
Stallion - yes, mare - no fucking way.
>>708352968
top kek
>>708352880
It was a fairly simple statement..
what part of it do you need help understanding?
>>708352880
I've been going at it for about 29 now... But with horses.
>>708352968
that poor Stallion
>>708353046
that you fucked dogs for 27 years
>>708353125
Again, it's a simple concept...
>>708352725
depends entirely on the dog. i slipped into my husky pretty easily on her second heat. had to use a fair bit of lube of course, but she never showed any signs of discomfort. i can slip into my gsd pretty easily too.
larger breeds are going to be easier, but plenty of medium sized dogs can comfortable take a human with little to no training.
i've only got about half the experience you do, and ive only ever been with medium breeds. mostly huskies and GSDs. ive only ever met 3 dogs that were too small for sex
>>708353066
win
>>708353078
you don't even know, that horse has had more dumb brazilian whores fumbling with his dick than any man in history
>>708342140
No. Id catch feelings.
>>708353278
took me a moment to notice its a dog
>>708353223
ok just took me off guard
>>708353256
then either you're fairly small or I'm fairly large.
Most of my huskies and gsd's have been too small
>>708353256
Man, I love how many of us there are on 4chan. I count at least three different experienced dogfuckers in this thread
Nice /mlp/ containment thread
>>708353432
I'm 42, my first time was when I was 15. been fairly active the entire time.
>>708352725
>I've been doing this for about 27 years
but were you fucking a dog when the towers fell?
>>708353551
why did you start fucking?
>>708353558
No, I was at work. Building a house.
>>708353488
some one say containment?
>>708353442
i'm just under 6 inches. 5.8 to be exact. so dead average. dunno what my girth is, but i'd say i'm pretty dead average in that department too.
maybe i've just gotten lucky, who knows.
>>708353464
there are a lot more people into zoo than most people realize. and tons more are zoo curious
>>708353604
Why not..?
I've always found animals just as attractive as humans.
With that said, I also have almost just as much sex with human girls too. and normal relationships.
I really wouldn't like to have to choose just one that would be the only one for the rest of my life.
>>708351030
and financial/living circumstances
>>708353789
um good point?
>>708353652
Oh fuck no not old man. 3spoopy mate.
I bet that nigga chill as fuck tho. Just takes people back to his dimension to smoke dank interspacial spice n shit. Look at him. He definitely knows how to get high as fuck.
We had horses when I grew up. Most were geldings and mares, but we had a couple of studs. One was "my" horse. I got along with him really well. I'd go hang out with him everyday. The thing is, he always got aroused when he saw me. I don't know why. But yeah, he was the reason people say, "Hung like a horse."
I guess I was just curious one day and I wanted to touch it. And I did. I took it my hand. Brutus (the horse's name) really seemed to enjoy it. And I got really aroused doing it too. So I basically jacked him off. He came bucket loads. It was so amazing to see that much cum. I got so turned on I climbed on to of him, literally bareback, and humped against him until I came.
It became almost an everyday thing. I'd go out to the barn, or take him on a ride away from where anyone could see and jack him off. I got braver and got under him and started sucking him too. I know now that's dangerous because a horse could start to fuck and basically kill you, but Brutus seemed to know not to do that. He would stand perfectly still and just enjoy it. I got to the point where I could even stick his cock up my ass. He would move just ever so slightly, never enough to do damage, but enough so I could feel it. He'd cum hard up inside me. I loved it.
The weird thing is, I'm not gay. I've never been attracted to men. But I'd give anything to feel Brutus inside me again, to suck his beautiful cock, and taste his cum.
>>708353652
kek
>>708353737
Interesting, I'm just a touch over 7, I always consider myself rather average but also often wish I was smaller to make things easier with dogs.
At least I dont run into that problem with my mares though.
>>708353737
He said, like it were a good thing.
>>708353933
high on child bones
>>708353821
But that comes from having the right attitude.
you can create for yourself any financial and living circumstance you choose.
Dash and I know each other fairly well, so I try to encourage him to make good life choices.
>>708354129
Dash is an attention whoring faggot, no need to encourage him.
Attitude or not, most people are too trash to reach the point where they can have a good job, free time, and a good house with room for a horse.
>>708354294
Sure he has problems, but that's no reason to not encourage him to make his life better.
without a doubt
>>708353938
Sounds pretty gay bro but good on you for having that kinda thing with your bro-horse.
>>708353975
girth is probly the biggest factor if i were to guess, you're probly a bit bigger in that department than i am too.
huskies are more spacious than people give them credit for though
>>708354465
His main problem is being a reprehensible person. Being edgy and whiny on the internet never improved anyone's life, nor does shallow comforts garnered from begging help encourage someone. It's just something someone has to get from within.
>>708354592
Every dog is different as far as I can tell, even big breeds can sometimes be too small.
My bernese mountain dog took several weeks of gentle stretching with my fingers and lots of lube before I could fit inside her. But holy hell was it worth the wait.
Who's this Dash?
>blowing out your dog's pussy so that you can use it for pleasure.
You people are horrible.
>>708352370
gaybeast is just men with animals (male or female). If you go up to the top where it says other sites, petsex is the female with animals version.
>>708354592
moooooooar
>>708354910
No i'm not.
how could there possibly be strings attached? its a fucking horse LOL
>>708354910
have you seen what the average male dog is packing? as long as you arent forcing yourself into a dog that is obviously too small, you arent going to be causing her any discomfort. quite the opposite in most cases
>>708354768
There are worse people in the threads.
>>708355072
i dont have much of her
>>708355291
Not many, though there are many similar to him.
Anyone who goes on the internet with a "I should just kill myself" routine regularly is pretty much obnoxious trash.
>>708355375
>>708354910
I wouldn't be doing it if she didn't love it so much.
Whenever I lay down on the living room carpet to snuggle with my bernese, she will always start by standing above me and begging me to rub her clit, and when I oblige she grabs my arm with her paws and hump it like crazy before she lies down and we just hang out watching TV and grooming each other.
In my opinion the horrible people are the ones who spay/neuter their dogs for no other reason than because they can't deal with animals showing natural sexual behaviours. Early spay/neutering hugely increases the risk of aggressive cancers :(
>>708355268
Again i disagree because of how they function.
there is a huge difference between slipping something small into a hole and inflating it and trying to force in something way too big to fit in the hole.
>>708355395
Snailkin is worse.
>>708355521
Is he the one who always quotes himself?
Ima post muffins since I have nothing else to do
>>708342140
Yes. Would you?
>>708355436
spay/neuter in general has lots of negative effects.
there's no reason to remove healthy body parts from an animal.
i have two intact females, and an intact male. despite that, we've had zero pregnancies since we retired the breeding female 2 years ago
should you wear condom incase of STD or bareback friendly?
>>708355572
Snailkin is the fag who posts herms and insists he's straight when the only thing he wants to see is cocks.
Muffin is best hoers.
>>708355670
I get really tired of answering that question.
>>708355727
>>708355670
STDs are generally not communicable cross species, and unless you have been letting your animals fuck other humans I think you should be fine.
>>708355449
This, the biggest part of penetration is getting past the muscle rings that hold things tight when not in use. Putting something past that and inflating it is way less damaging than trying to stretch it open.
>>708355727
Oh, yeah he is the worst.
Yes, I'm aware she is. I'm posting out of your folder anyway.
>>708355815
>>708355268
There is a big difference, male dogs have a bone inside their penis that enable them to penetrate the bitch while they are flaccid, small and slender.
They get the erection and swell up afterwards, while inside her. What you see in that picture is the absolute max size, if he had been inside a bitch vagina he would only swell until the tightness of the bitch stopped more blood from entering the erectile tissue.
So you have to be REALLY careful as a human male trying to force yourself inside a dog, your dick is much larger during penetration and you can easily injure the dog and cause pain. And if you screw up and make it painful for her she will most likely end up hating sex and never let you try again, so don't rush into it.
>>708346820
saved
When I was fucking my female horse back in high school. That pussy feels so good those big muscles of the ass pudding against you feels so good. The warm soft hair. Should try it good pussy it just getting your rocks off is all I beat a lot of people don't it just doesn't get talked about. The only problem with the horse I fucked is she would sway back and forth when I was fucking her guess cause it felt good to her. But it was hard to stay in her when I was on a chair.
>>708346556
Underrated post.
>>708342140
>>708348029
yeah but where can i watch some of this without ruining my computer??
>>708351708
more pls but female
>>708356753
internet
>>708352858
what's GSD stand for?
>>708355916
there's a guy on BF by the name of Nevodog. he's probly packing 8.5 inches. he gets into his husky pretty easily. i think pic related is him
>>708356858
german shepherd dog
>>708356828
yeah but...
>>708349947
You have fucked one? tell us
>>708356907
Ah. thank ye.
>>708357105
no, but i've assisted with a medical checkup. managed to slip a couple fingers into one when nobody was looking a few times
>>708342140
Heck yes, but then again I would fuck mud on a rainy day if I could.
>>708356867
BF is not a good reference for how to safely fuck your dog, there's a lot of abusive stuff going on there :(
So how would I go about fucking a mare if Im a city guy? There is a LOT of farms nearby though
>>708357723
Buy one of the nearby farms, buy a mare, get to know her.
>>708350947
Less likely to get kicked, and you could probably nibble on her mane.
>>708357567
its a mixed bag. there are lots of sickos on there, but there are also plenty of experienced and loving zoos as well. t
he guy i'm talking about isnt hurting her. he slowly works his way into her, and then bones her pretty gently.
>>708357723
>wait until dark
>sneak onto farm
>get behind horse
>stick dick in
>get kicked
>bleed out overnight and be found in the morning
>>708357567
I expect I still have pics on BF.
I haven't been there in years, since back when it was a decent site and the members actually cared about their animals.
>>708357954
10/10 advice
>>708357885
It's actually very hard on your legs trying to half squat or make yourself shorter so you can fuck.
And you wont be getting kicked anyway. If you do then you deserve it for doing something you shouldn't be doing.
Where do you find women sucking horse cock anyway?
>>708357567
wtf is bf?
>>708357954
or get get shot trying to sneak onto the farm because said farmer probably has dogs that started barking the second you made the smallest noise. fence hopping is a great way to die
>>708358286
Why not kill the farmer?
Like anybody gives a shit about a stupid murrikan
what would be the easiest dog breed to develop this kind of relation?
>>708358517
murder charges tend to complicate extended zoophilic activities. unless you like taking it from bears; plenty of those in prison
>>708358126
I know. I just pray that I actually survived getting kicked and this isn't all some elaborate dream for me to cope with dying. Although that thought comes along for every nde.
>>708358207
beastforum (.com)
It's the biggest bestiality forum online and pretty infamous both in the zoo community and among animal activists trying to shut it down. I dislike it because it attracts so much attention and is full of people who only gets off on animal sex because they think it is degrading to women, they don't care about the animals...
>>708358616
>Implying you will be found in the first place
This isn't a cartoon or law and order, deluded fuck.
Most criminals get away with it most of the time, and also the system is overloaded. Not enough cops to crime ratio.
>>708351574
How the fuck? German Shephards have huge fucking dicks? Maybe you are huge or just need some foreplay?
>>708358952
see >>708355916 and >>708355449
