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Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
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it's shit
Why does anyone like Communism? Like...have you seen the countries that are Communist?
>>703616013
No, because there have never been any communist countries. Communism is the theoretical end goal of M-L socialism that can't exist before a long period of socialism.
>>703616191
This guy is right.
>>703615858
>>703615752
>the price mechanism.
Yeah, logistics are a bitch. Think about the amount of time it would take to get food too all the people in the world, or the amount of energy it would take. Let alone that most of the food supply is perishable. Add in a few thousand different types of vermin that snack on out food stores and you basically have an impossible feat. Money isn't the reason we cannot feed the starving masses of the world
>>703615858
rot in hell faggot
>>703616215
If we can put people in space and send a satellite to Jupiter, I think we can get food and fresh water across the ocean.
>>703616191
Thats why We should teach Freedom to kids, and kill the ones who can't understand that.
>>703616308
What are airplanes and other vehicles?
>>703616311
>If we can put people in space and send a satellite to Jupiter, I think we can get food and fresh water across the ocean.
Semantics, I can get a payload into space easier then I can drive 20 miles
>>703615965
>it's shit
/thread
It's a matter of who is efficient with resources and who isn't. If someone spectacularly mismanages what they have, the answer is not to give them more. Communism is not self sustaining.
>>703616402
Good for you.
We have the means to do it. What we don't have is the incentive to outside a moral imperative. We look at the issue and say "Man, we could actually feed the hungry.. But that would be really expensive, so no thanks lol"
>>703616406
>/thread
I wouldn't say that, I love talking to brainwashed college students that have majors in liberal arts
>>703616215
>pic related
>it's America wasting 40% of the food it produces
>standard capitalist efficiency
>>703616450
Communism is probably the only self-sustaining economic theory.
>>703616502
>thinks liberal arts are somehow worse than whatever he's comparing it to
>>703615858
>TL;DR
Racist are uneducated pieces of shit who think they "worked" for their luck and money.
Communism is the way of the future be part of the steam roller or part of the road.
>>703616013
there's never been a communist nation on earth, the only capitalist nation right now really is Somalia
>>703616543
>Communism is the way of the future be part of the steam roller or part of the road.
Yeah venezuela is doing so well.
>inb4 China
China is closer to NSDAP socialism than it is communism.
>>703616343
Communism is true freedom for all, not just the bourgeoisie. And it will provide everyone with all the education they need to understand proper grammar and the rules of capitalization,
>>703616486
No, we really don't have the means to do it, you don't understand the logistical nightmare it is to just get a few tons of rice distributed in African countries, let alone make sure it makes it to each person it's intended for .
>>703616381
Things that aren't maintained, operated and fueled freely.... Even by communists
>>703616504
The efficiency is that we were able to create so much, a superabundance.
>look at how much capitalism produces, so wasteful!
>>703616504
40% of over abundance is better then 25% shortfall
>>703616640
Oh, so we don't have vehicles to transport it anywhere?
We don't have people who can distribute it on the ground?
We don't have the actual product to move and ways to preserve it?
You just made my point. We have the means, and choose not to for convenience.
>>703616624
the NSDAP wasn't socialism.... just because it has it in the name doesn't mean shit
Communism is unsustainable and will revert civilization in a tribal society, what you want is Democratic Socialism. The People control the government and the government controls the economy.
>>703616701
that's not the point.
>>703616624
>NSDAP socialism
Hitler's movement only called itself "socialist" in order to gain the support of Germany's then-extremely-large social democratic political group. The Nazis were not socialists, and state-run welfare programs are not sufficient for socialism.
>>703616502
What the hell would they know about Marxist economic theory?
>>703616745
This.
>>703616559
The only anarcho-capitalist country, maybe. At least Northern Somalia.
>>703616502
>liberal arts
>most mentally demanding major
Yeah you know nothing. My life would be easier if i could sit around all day doing what a calculator does. Some of choose the hard path.
Try being a Marxist in a world who is unable to understand genius.
>>703616657
It's not wasteful out of necessity like we have to much food it's because people are superficial and if their lettuce has a single little brown spot they'll freak out. This is what capitalism breeds, a group of anal people who also would rather throw food away rather then give it to the poor, or even sell it to farms for pigs
>>703616701
>that's not the point.
That is exactly the counterpoint to your point. a 25% shortfall just killed 25% of your population through famine. Game over.
>>703616766
Pure capitalism has no regulation, which likely means no government. So anarcho-capitalists likely are the only "true" capitalists in the world.
>>703616636
>and the rules of capitalization
i oppose capitalism
>>703616543
Here would be the Socialism in One Country folks, or maybe Maoists, checking in.
>>703616766
capitalism is anarchist by very definition, there's no need for a government because everything will sort itself out right ?
>humans can fly
>they just do it wrong all the time
>>703616803
> My life would be easier if i could sit around all day doing what a calculator does.
Oh lord. Here it comes. STEMfag alter, STEMfag alert.
>>703616624
They were racist. It discredits everything they have ever done even if it worked.
>>703616866
I'm a ML, but I've never understood Maoists to be honest. Or trotskyites for that matter. It seems if you're not ML you're just a tankie or a soft socialist.
>>703616191
What a dumbass infographic. Starting from the upper left, they're already wrong in the first sentence:
>"Capitalism is essentially wasteful; commodities are produced because they can be sold, not because they are needed."
And just why do you think your things can be sold? Oh, it's because someone needs them.
>>703616381
Oh ok. Sounds like you are my first volunteer. Kindly go to the supermarket where I only bought a half loaf of bread. There is now a half loaf of bread on the shelf because I wasn't my capitalist self today.
Please drive your car from the shop, to the airport, buy a ticket to Congo, take a ride 400kms from the Congo airport and deliver this bread to the hungriest child you can see.
This doesn't work for my normal capitalist brain, but maybe it does in your commie wet dream
Marx was laughing while writing his fantasy novel
>>703616929
Wow. Are you serious?
>>703616929
They don't seem to understand it's better to have an over abundance than a shortfall
>>703616732
>The People control the government
>>703616933
This is a straw man, and not a pretty one at that. It's like the people who say "Oh, you're a socialist? Give me half of your paycheck then."
It's a gross oversimplification of reality and theory.
>>703616978
not when you have people throwing away food rather then giving it to the poor, or groups hiding the supply they have of something just to manipulate the price. The nation as a whole gets hurt by this
>>703616657
>look at our great success
I can tell that your capitalist economic substructure is dogshit merely by reflecting on what a morally-repellent homunculus you are for having grown up in it.
>>703616929
>>703616978
>what is a commodity?
>what is use-value?
>what is trade-value?
>hurr durr i'm completely uneducated but i'll jump in the grownups table and pretend i know what i'm talking about
>>703616978
With that kind of logic, even capitalists don't need banks.
Think about it. Every month you get paid a steady income. Every month you need to spend that money to live. Let's just live exactly to our income and spend exactly every cent.
>>703616872
I just said liberal arts is more demanding than STEM and you cant understand it. Whatever though have fun being a science drone and thinking you are smart.
Genuis almost always is found in liberal arts people just dont understand.
>>703617018
This is repeatedly avoiding the issue of logistics and cost (not even monetary cost)
>>703617192
... i was just saying that i expected a bunch of STEMfags to come in here and bitch, but i guess they're all asleep right now
you're right that LA majors tend to be more intelligent
>>703616821
>>703616867
>there's no need for a government because everything will sort itself out right ?
Wrong. You still need a government to protect property rights, deal with those who steal or commit fraud or murder, let people sue, to see that people abide by contracts, etc.
Unless you are an anarcho-capitalist, where you think police, courts, and. Maintaining order can all be done privately without government.
But capitalism isn't anarchy.
>>703617226
planes take food to country
planes drop food off
planes come back
It's not hard.
>>703617018
It's simple but you still don't even understand.
Poor you. Life must be a real challenge.
>>703617226
Nothing will cost anything you dumbass.
>>703617285
Oh, you can't give an argument and are now trying to provoke me. I'm too old for that shit. Come back with a decent argument or don't at all.
>>703616918
I'm only conversant in any of these theories, but, if I had to guess, to understand Maoism you'd have to read Mark/Engels, disagree with Stalin, and view the whole thing through being Chinese and not liking Confuscianism.
But that's pretty much a wild-ass guess.
>>703617288
Who said it would cost me anything?
>>703616918
That's a hard statement to support when you're talking about an economic substructure whose space of possible implementations is as broad as, say, the idea of democracy.
>>703617273
those are all anti capitalist ideals
>>703617139
I love how ignorant people call people dumb. It's sadly endearing
>>703617330
Unless you are gonna samefag yourself, you are no better than the person you are describing.
>>703617432
So instead of talking about the subject matter, you ignore it and insult me. Do you understand those things I mentioned or no?
>>703617122
Hmmm... capitalism on the left, non-capitalism on the right. Your point?
>>703617433
You're entitled to your opinion.
>>703617432
Hence why they are ignorant. They don't understand. No the sad part is they don't want to
>>703617139
You can take your labor theory of value and shove it. Market value is all that counts.
>>703617490
>proving that filename is on-point
>>703617490
that nation on the right is more then likely way more capitalist then the left. Capitalism is the absense of restrictions. The poor as fuck african countries are capitalist by nature.....
>>703617564
Okay. See you when Capitalism collapses in on itself so I can say "I told you so."
>>703617490
how is the one on the right not capitalist ?
>>703617574
jesus
capitalists rekt
>>703617489
You'd have to have a basic understanding of supply and demand ,and a rudimentary understanding of economics for me to continue this discussion with you. If you weren't ignorant you wouldn't of seen it as an insult ,as everybody is ignorant. Sorry,but you simply can't know it all
>>703617150
>Think about it. Every month you get paid a steady income. Every month you need to spend that money to live. Let's just live exactly to our income and spend exactly every cent.
Capitalism is based on not consuming everything we produce, but saving some. The portion above what we consume is capital, and this capital is used for other things, like building factories, r&d, buying equipment, etc
>>703617330
> shit post
> gets shit thrown back
> covers eyes and ears
Bla bla bla can't hear you
Seriously you sound like my son
>>703617564
I double fucking-dare you to find any market that can set a price irrespective of labor.
>>703617693
I have a degree in Economics. I may not know it all, but after nearly a decade of studying political economy, I likely know more than you.
>>703617703
Fuck me I must have left my sarcasm at home. But it's probably a good thing for the commies to understand
>>703617564
>mfw he doesn't even know that all economists of that time had a labor theory of value
>including Adam Smith
Tell me more about your laughable Austrian economics. Wow, you read a whole book by von Mises? Too bad Austrian economics is to economics what objectivism is to philosophy.
>>703617785
how's working at Starbucks ?
>>703617785
>I have a degree in Economics
No sir, you do not
>>703617490
the right is more capitalist then the left you retard
>>703617859
Yup. I was a double major in Economics and Philosophy, and am working on my PhD in Philosophy.
You can believe what you want, but the modern capitalistic model is not compatible with Socialist theory.
>>703617856
I don't. I'm a graduate student who gets paid to go to school. I'll likely be a professor, but I have the option to go to law school if I want.
>>703617935
holy shit you REALLY did not want a job, I guess you learned about supply and demand about there not being any demand for your majors
>>703617611
its not capitalism that will collapse
its the system of unbacked currency that is collapsing.
currency has to be backed by physical commodities.
unbacked currency is a part of the communist manifesto
>>703618004
this.
>>703617935
>Yup. I was a double major in Economics and Philosophy, and am working on my PhD in Philosophy.
No sir, you are lying . You sure yo want to go down this route, junior?
>>703617990
Economics is an in-demand major, and philosophy majors are accepted to law school at higher rates than every other major. Plus there's always the option to be a professor.
>>703616978
No, both are bad because we live in a world of scarcity. Overabundance in one area generates shortfalls. If I make too many size 9 shoes, those are resources not being spent on making something else people need. I may also end up with a glut of some product in mid-stage production (particularly with products that have long production times - like houses or factories) that needs to be expensively reallocated to the production of some other product.
The ideal scenario is to get the exact right amount of the goods you need. Of course, you can't achieve this - markets are not perfectly efficient, entrepreneurs and consumers have imperfect knowledge, and so on,.
The clownish statement from the infographic assumes that prices and purchases carry no information. Under capitalism, they claim, "if you build it, they will buy". This is demonstrably false. Stuff isn't bought in a vacuum. People buy shit they need. If you build it and nobody wants it, it stays on the shelf and you go bankrupt. Under socialism, they claim, this is somehow solved. Only the needed stuff is produced and none of that other crap is. Yay for efficiency gains!
Wrong. The whole point of the calculation debate in the 20s was to illustrate that the actual function of prices in the market was to distribute this information across the market and how, without that information, socialism would end up with even worse cases of overabundance and shortfalls. Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened.
This infographic starts off essentially with "nah, that never happened".
>>703618004
>unbacked currency is a part of the communist manifesto
In this conversation, you're the guy who thinks 2+2=5 but decides to crash a physics convention and scream about his UFO theories.
>>703617609
The African countries are tribalist and authoritarian. The western countries like Europe and USA had capitalism and free markets, and western rule of law. We are the ones who prospered, Africa eats dirt.
Some African countries also tried "communism" and socialism, that didn't work out better either.
What Africa truly needs is free market capitalism with an uncorrupted government and mostly honest citizens. Then they could have as. Much prosperity as the USA, Europe, Japan, etc. And not the shit show they have now.
>>703618176
>>703617280
Are you volunteering?
>>703618004
Let's start with what it is you think "backing" means and what it entails? You'd probably better define "intrinsic value" while you're at it.
Now that that's out of the way:
What physical commodity is there enough of to back the entire modern global economy?
>>703618139
Oh no, internet tough guy is going to scare the degree right off of my wall!
I don't need to validate myself to you, just academia. My first published essay was received pretty well actually.
>>703617935
i dont care about your degrees
tell me why unbacked currency is not the r00t of the b00m and bust cycle that is always falsely blamed on capitalism.
>>703618192
>unbacked currency is a part of the communist manifesto
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm
No unbacked currency really is part of the communist manifesto
>>703618139
Wow are you unconvincing.
>>703618192
tell me how unbacked currency is not the cause of periodic crisis
>>703618233
you're a cute kind of stupid. Well those tribes are allowed to exist because of lack of control, whichever tribe is the strongest takes out the others or can out compete. The lack of control naturally leads to a sytem of control. It's human nature and those tribes fighting it out is capitalism in it's purest form, "survival of the fittest"
>>703618305
Because it doesn't matter if it's backed by gold or not, money fluctuates based on speculation and the relation to imports/exports of other countries. Booms and busts are a part of capitalism with fiat currency or gold coins. Keynes would be a good one to read about this.
>>703618233
Free markets?
Do you actually not know that those have never existed in the countries you mentioned or do you just not care?
>>703618192
that's sort of the essence of it
>>703616657
Production from the community is distributed based upon need, not by effort or amount of work. It is expected that basic needs for each worker are met by the community, and there is no more to be obtained through working more than what is required. For example, if a worker puts in more time at work, he sees no additional reward, and production is minimally affected. The worker receives the same stipend and ration as before. Therefore, this type of economy often results in poor production, mass poverty and little advancement. This occurred in the 1980s to the Soviet Union when poverty became so widespread, and rebellions and revolutions caused a dissolution of the nation.
>>703618340
Provide a quote from the text.
>>703617781
Every market m8. The value of anything can fall below the cost of labor to make it. Like the value of a new vcr.
When the market value falls below the cost of labor to produce it, that's also an economic signal to stop producing that item.
TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT! BUILD THAT WALL! USA USA USA
>>703618515
So, you don't know what "irrespective" means.
>>703618644
top kek
>>703618139
Well, I was expecting something to happen, but it never did.
>>703618680
"Labor cost never matters."
then:
"Labor cost matters."
>>703618265
you're an idiot.
there are thousands of physical commodities and you can devide them up into small parts.
there's a total amount of a specific commoditie. divide it by the quantity of currency you want to create.
its called freedom of currency, there can be currency backed by precious metals or rare minerals or a mixture of it.
there can be crypto currency
and there can also be fiat money, but it sucks so naturaly noone will use it
>>703618644
Well in communist thinking he is probably right. transportation costs, fuel, resources are apparently not existent in commie land
>>703617853
>>mfw he doesn't even know that all economists of that time had a labor theory of value
>>including Adam Smith
Mfw they were all wrong
>Wow, you read a whole book by von Mises?
Wow, you read a whole book by Marx?
>Too bad Austrian economics is to economics what objectivism is to philosophy.
Two great things that taste great together, though I prefer Nietzsche.
>>703618761
Try taking a look at the market for diamonds, the price is completely irrespective of labor or supply
>>703618834
They weren't wrong.
Von Mises is a joke compared to Marx.
Of course you prefer Nietzsche. Basically the one mainstream philosopher who's not taken seriously at the graduate level.
>>703618429
mieses and hayek would be a good one for you
the fluctuation of fiat money systems (or rather the continous creation of new money) is what causes the b00m and bust cycle
>>703618280
>what is use-value?
Use Value vs. Exchange value.
Non-use value (i.e. an over abundance)
That statement proved you don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of economics, and you misstated it's meaning . Hell, I doubt you even taken a home economics class in high school with a mistake as such.
>>703618004
Hello friend. I agree with you, but the ultimate culprit is fractional-reserve banking. We must move to 100% reserve banking as well.
>>703618929
>diamonds
>>703618925
Mises is a joke, and Hayek was second fiddle to Keynes. Get out of here with that shit.
>>703618929
Oh, so you haven't read Capital. Great. Cheers, kiddo.
>>703618900
>the one mainstream philosopher who's not taken seriously at the graduate level
Clearly you've never studied Teenage Edgeonomics.
>>703618455
yes but its not like a market is either free or totaly controlled
you can meassure the amount of economic freedom.
the more economic freedom, the more wealth is created.
>>703618772
In your world a crypto-currency counts as "backed by a physical commodity", and I'm the idiot?
Until you rock up with those definitions I mentioned, I'm going to assume that your currency education came from one of those commercials offering to sell you gold bullion at discount prices.
>>703618982
yes fractional reserve banking does the same thing as the central bank does, create more money out of literaly nothing
>>703619049
You've gone from "free market" to "well, not really free, in the Laissez-Faire sense, per se...but you know what I mean..." in one move.
>>703619191
Gotta keep that shit vague unless you want to be caught with a falsifiable opinion and your dick in your hand.
>>703618761
Labor cost never matters to value. Value is in no way determined by the producer. Labor costs may matter to supply by putting a floor below which value cannot fall without impacting supply, but that's not a component of value itself.
>>703616929
It's based on Marx's viewpoint of Capitalism.
Which btw was 200 fucking years ago.
Everyone follows Karl Marx who came from an era of horse, carriage, and people shitting in the street.
Communism is fucking hilariously outdated in every theory and concept. But people keep dragging it out like Jesus stories trying to make it relevant.
Use value. Jesus Christ.
>>703619336
Well fucking said.
>>703618265
>What physical commodity is there enough of to back the entire modern global economy?
This is irrelevant. If you backed the world currencies on gold, the amount of gold in existence is irrelevant. The only thing that would change is the. Relative value of the gold. A hamburger might cost 1 gram of gold in one scenario, or 0.01 grams of gold if much less gold existed. With paper certificates backed by gold, or with modern debit/credit cards the amount of gold in existence is irrelevant. Only if everyone had to carry physical gold coins would it begin to be relevant.
>>703619344
Define "value".
>>703619008
>Capital in the 21st century
Thomas Piketty
Anon read one book and thinks he has a PhD in Economics
>>703619344
Wow do you not own a business.
Holy shit, I'm not even sure you have a job if you think something that falls right into "not even wrong".
For fuck's sake, I'm not even sure you've ever been in the same postal code as an economics book. Even then surely some sort of information would've entered your mind through some sort of osmosis.
>>703619407
And Smith came 75 years before that.
How does that make you feel?
>>703619543
All that book did was provide more evidence for what socialists have been saying for more than a century.
>>703618429
>Booms and busts are a part of capitalism with fiat currency or gold coins.
>>703618925
Booms and busts are created by the expansion and contraction of the money supply through both directions of the money multiplier effect, which is a result of fractional-reserve banking.
>>703616512
>self-sustaining economic theory
I assume you mean it's self-sustaining in that as a load of horseshit, it continues to bamboozle a small percentage of assholes every year.
Not that the idea of crushing the spirit of man will result in brilliant socio-economic realities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFFZwUSmu9I
>>703619543
Working on my PhD but it's in philosophy. Concentrating on political economy though. Capital is THE defining work of political economy. Yes, even in the year of our lord 2016.
>>703619119
its not important by what exactly the currencies are backed.
the main criterea is the amount of currency units available has to be stable.
a crypto currency is stable as long as noone comes up with a computer that can mine an incredible amount of money units.
and if that happens someone can invent a stronger encryption algorythm. thats the good thing about freedom of currency.
>>703619433
So, you want to end wild volatility of unbacked currency by introducing wild volatility into the value of the backing commodity.
>>703619638
>crushing the spirit of man
Uh, oh - here comes the capitalist mythology. "It's not privilege - it's my innate genetic heroism!"
>>703616543
>Thinking "racists" and "communism" are two different things.
Marx asked the Jewish Question. Hitler responded.
Communism is the most racist political theory in existence. Death to anyone who doesn't identify properly. Global mass culling.
>>703619637
Ohhh I remember macro 101
>>703619748
American Introductory Economics, or, A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing.
>>703619705
Alright.
What happens when new discoveries suddenly expand economic output beyond the contraints of the backing commodity?
What happens when the opposite occurs?
>>703619637
thank you.
its the deadly combination ofcentral banks and fractional reserve banking.
>>703618644
I just showed a market can set a price irrespective of labor cost. You could spend millions of dollars producing chocolate covered turds, and the market price would still be zero. The shit has zero value despite the labor that went into it.
>>703616191
>things are produced and somehow sold to people who neither want or need the product
Oh man.
>>703619734
>doesn't understand communism
You proved your ignorance in a very small amount of words. I'm impressed.
>>703619729
Yes. Because the alternative is your unicorn fucking notion of social theory that anywhere people try capitalism, the water was privileged. Unfair. Unfair!
Somehow anytime people try free trade there was just something accidentally good going on that had nothing to do with the notion that people shouldn't be forced to act with a gun to their fucking head.
Boo hoo. Fucking privilege. Yeah, the privilege of thieves not having total control of the lives of people.
>>703619870
It would still have a price because there's an associated cost. You can't give it away or your business would fail. You'd have to give it a value based on the labour and resources that went into it. Just because they don't sell doesn't mean it has no value.
>>703619898
>Yeah, the privilege of thieves not having total control of the lives of people
Hey, now you're getting it! That's the basic idea of socialism.
>>703619870
No, you really didn't.
What you showed was a trivial case of negative value; aka: *loss*.
>>703619888
No, I'm fairly certain the many Marx books I've read and my degree speak otherwise, internet child with a pop culture understanding of Communism.
You can say race doesn't matter. But then you're going to turn around and kill everyone who doesn't not comply with your notion of social order. The very identifying characteristics people with racial notions embrace.
>>703619898
Spotted the libertarian. Let me guess - taxes are theft?
>. be me
> no economics degree
> grew up in communist Poland
Communism fucking sucked.
>>703617609
Interestingly enough, most of the impoverished African countries adopted socialism in the 40s and 50s.
>>703619876
Did you accidentally click Post before making your point?
>>703620042
>state capitalism
FTFY
>>703620009
You wouldn't know Socialism if it got into bed with you and gave you blowjob.
>>703620034
Yeah keep your degree to yourself.
It's not racist ideology. Unless you somehow redefine racism.
>>703620058
Did you?
>>703620047
and now they aren't
>>703620009
The basic idea of socialism is that you do not own anything you produce. And you will be forced under threat of death to work for others.
>>703619734
Idiot. Marx was a saint and would never harm a person for the color of their skin
>>703620042
> be me
> no economics degree
> grew up in communist Yugoslavia
It still sucked, even though we were not part of the eastern block.
>>703620042
Its never real communism. They only steal the name
>>703620079
English isn't my first language. But can you please speak it more.
>>703615858
>it's /leftypol/ trying to invade 4chan again
Stay mad and stick to your redditchan
>>703618900
>Basically the one mainstream philosopher who's not taken seriously at the graduate level.
Don't make me laugh m8. As if professors in academia taking something seriously at "the graduate level" is a badge of honor.
Enjoy your Kant I guess.
>>703620034
>But then you're going to turn around and kill everyone who doesn't not comply with your notion of social order.
Literally social order does this. If you don't respect the right to private property under capitalism or if you actively undermine the system you are punished with violence. If you don't respect the land rights of a lord under feudalism then you are punished. If you don't respect the rights of slave owners under a slave economy then you are punished. Every political and economic system rests on the twin pillars of ideology and force.
>>703619857
economic growth -> deflation
economic decline -> inflation
and thats called technical progress, it happens every day and in a free money system people would not use fiat currency but better currencies wich will deflate over time.
meaning that the savings you made in your earlier days become worth more, not less as your age increases
>>703620092
>>703620137
>>703620145
>everything I know about socialism I learned from right-wing talk radio
But that's like learning calculus from a gerbil, anon.
>>703620035
You seem quite hostile to the notion that you don't literally get to dictate how everyone else should live their lives. Hate to break it to you, you smug little shit, but that's not libertarianism, it's, you're a fucking man-child.
>>703620092
Listen, in socialist countries they don't have beds or blowjobs. Those are too bourgeois. A real socialist gets off on forced labor and itchy wool uniforms.
>>703620171
>>703620042
>be me
>no economics degree
>grew up in USA while watching it slowly turn into a communist state
Communism fucking sucks
>>703620241
So you have no substantive arguments to make? Neato.
>>703619581
As it happens I do own a business. I work in it, too, if you can count that as a job. My taxes do, basically (yay for S corps), so that's good enough for me.
You already lost this shit over a hundred years ago when marginalism took over. Labor and value have nothing to do with one another.
You seem to be mistaking value for price.
>>703620207
>>>703620207
Never real.
It's always fantasy.
>>703620240
Yeah, I know what they're called.
What I don't know is how your backed currency plan helps.
The only thing you seem to actually be arguing against is central banks and nationally controlled monetary policy.
>>703620225
Proudly anti-intellectual rejection of modernism...check. Oh, don't mind me - I'm just doing this online quiz for you:
http://interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html
>>703620241
>everything I know about socialism I learned from living in California and Oregon .
So I feel like and expert on the matter
>>703620139
No, the ones still in dire straits still have socialism.
>>703620114
Pretty sure Marx did a fine job himself.
Read On the Jewish Question. Then don't return.
Marx was such a fantastic racist, and Communism is such a flagrantly anti-human diversity notion that he only afforded a single cultural identity to be allowed for his theory to "work". The only way you can have a single cultural identity, while not stated outright, was answered by Hitler.
The political illiteracy of the anti-commies in here is fucking astounding.
Okay, and any one of you define what socialism is? Can you define communism?
>>703620207
bullshit
the whole world is using a communist money system by now and its a wreck that destroys the corporatism the former capitalism has collapsed into.
>>703620320
Standard /pol/. Makes silly posts about blowjobs, demands rigorous academic arguments in response to his senseless shitposts.
>>703619344
One of the only people here that truly understands. Dubs are well earned.
>>703620348
>makes outrageous claims
>just trust me on this
I don't understand how anyone can be a proponent of Marxism after we have watched it fail over and over again.
We have 100 years of historical precedent for Marxism in all its various permutations failing spectacularly and always, always leading to mass murder and oppression.
>>703617703
Absolutely wrong, the more money people save the more the economy grinds to a halt. Capitalism relies on spending. Think of it this way. If I have some land, grow my own food, power my home with solar and basically do as many things as possible to be self sufficient, how does that help you? This is what I'm planning on doing because I'm fucking sick and tired of the rest of you and want to step off the rape and pillage your bank account train and stop lining those fucking greedy Jews pockets.
>>703620440
Can you read the fucking thread? >>703616191
>>703620282
"real" Socialist?
Oh, you mean the kind that you're trying to use to make your point.
How many of those actually still exist?
>>703620390
yeah if you cant see how its a problem that the central banks steal currency units from everyone who already has currency units by creation new currency units out of nothing, i cant help you anymore sir.
>>703620440
>>703620516
Oh, anti-, heh. I should slow down when I've been drinking. Yeah, your pic is absolutely the last two threads with these people.
>>703620440
>communism
>socialism
>democracy
All basically the same definition
>>703620390
samefag here,
>The only thing you seem to actually be arguing against is central banks and nationally controlled monetary policy.
yes, and fractional reserve banking
>>703620497
What's outrageous about labor having no relation to value? The labor theory of value had huge problems, which marginalism explained. It's now part of mainstream economics.
This isn't a big secret, just look it up.
>>703620237
>If you don't respect the right to private property under capitalism or if you actively undermine the system you are punished with violence
You literally equate "actively undermining the system" with Communism's theory that it can only exist by mass murdering people who don't fit the narrative.
This is why Communism even exists as a theory. Because people as stupid as you, who can't even understand the basic concept of force versus voluntary behavior, try to write rules for others.
Yes, in ANY system if you actively try to destroy people or property, you will be met with force. Not capitalism. EVERYTHINGISM. You found the one thing all humans hold in common and then tried to make it seem like a Capitalist flaw. Brilliant!
Underaged and/or halfwit uneducated /b/tards trying to discuss politics.
Kek.
Even /pol/ is not able to get this one right.
Well done though, I did take the b8.
>>703620476
>makes an argument yet proven false
>shitposts
>responds to shitposting by shitposting
>shitposts some more
Mhm, mhm.
>>703620591
Trust me comrade I'm on your team.
>>703620572
The jews made the central banks to help implement their communist form over government ,and to enslave all lesser races while eliminating the white race.
>>703620348
Clearly you ain't an auto-mechanic.o
If you were then you'd have had to give an invoice that itemized parts and labor.
Clearly you don't have any actual employees, because then you'd have to calculate their wages into your price.
Why the hell you calculate what you pay yourself into your product is beyond me.
I'm surprised you could fill out the paper work for an S-Corp, or hire someone to do it, or would even try in the first place without managing to figure out that:
Labor + Material = Cost
"Comrade" Robert Mugabe, a communist plant by the Soviet Union, has been president of Zimbabwe for the last 29 years or so. Now it is politically incorrect to speak up against his depotism because my country, Norway, and many others, financially supported his regime of terror in the 80's and 90's. Remember Rhodesia.
>>703620725
Do you just come here to be stupid?
>>703620663
Fine.
Have at it.
But that not intrisically related to physical commodity backed currencies.
>>703620801
And now you are being punished by Ahmed and friends. Karma is real.
>>703615858
>>703620725
This
>>703620814
They do. The worst ones have government (socialized) owned means of production bruh; you know, socialism.
>>703620572
I can see that.
What can't be seen is the intrinsic relationship between that and physical commodity backed currency.
I'm in favor of libertarianism. You don't fuck with me, I won't fuck with you and we can both fuck over the greedy Jews by not giving them money anymore.
>>703619722
No, there is no wild volatility of the backing commodity. The supply of the backing commodity changes very slowly, and is not under the control of a handful of people as in fiat. My point was, whether at the present time there is a trillion of ounces of gold in the world, or only a billion, it doesn't mean you can't base an economy on it. The only thing that would change is the value of each gram.
You could run the entire world economy on only 1 ounce of gold in theory. You would only need to print currency denominated as 0.0000000000001 ounce of gold.
>>703620809
So you're saying that you have nothing to substantiate criticize capitalism with? Cool.
>>703616191
Standard marxist answer. "But that wasen't..."
Nothing will be "it" either. Get over it. It doesn't f-u-c-k-i-n-g work.
>>703620771
> You seem to be mistaking value for price
Called it.
Value != price
Value != cost
>>703620506
> If I have some land, grow my own food, power my home with solar and basically do as many things as possible to be self sufficient, how does that help you?
thats teh oposit of a capitalist division of labor society
>Absolutely wrong, the more money people save the more the economy grinds to a halt.
thats a
>Capitalism relies on spending
nope, it relies on saving. the need to be spending all the time is a consequence of the communist central bank system aka fiat money and fractional reserve banking.
>>703620957
That's ironic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDvd50r7IZ0
>>703620695
>You literally equate "actively undermining the system" with Communism's theory that it can only exist by mass murdering people who don't fit the narrative.
What theory would that be? Pro tip: most communists aren't Pol Pot. Apart from him there is no communist theory that requires mass killing.
>Because people as stupid as you, who can't even understand the basic concept of force versus voluntary behavior, try to write rules for others.
But you are falling for the meme of capitalism being totally voluntary. It rests on coercion and force to maintain private property relations. Lolberts go on about the "muh voluntarism" but they don't realize that their system, like any system, is ultimately based on coercion and ideology, like any other. The question then becomes, not "how can we avoid coercion?" but "how can we use coercion to create the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number?"
>You found the one thing all humans hold in common and then tried to make it seem like a Capitalist flaw. Brilliant!
I'm not saying it's a flaw, I'm saying that the use of coercion to maintain the system isn't unique to communism, and yet you are pointing out the fact that coercion is necessary to maintain a socialist society like its some kind of gotcha moment, when literally any society requires coercion.
>>703620990
>No, there is no wild volatility of the backing commodity.
>>703620990
>> The only thing that would change is the value of each gram.
That's volatility.
You are *literally* describing making the underlying backing volatile while saying that that isn't volatility.
I thought this thread would be a good distraction from trap AIDS
Instead it gave me cancer
>>703620957
you don't even realize how big of an oxymoron you just made
>>703620506
If you press on the brakes, the car stops. Absolutely astute analysis of economics there dipshit. Which economic theory do you think this DOESN'T apply to fucktard?
The point of capitalism is to benefit from trade. If you don't benefit from it, then don't do it. Congrats, you've just solved the issue of over-production and consumerism. That doesn't mean children will magically be born with their necessities meant. It doesn't mean your windmill won't break and you won't ever want a mechanic. It doesn't mean you won't ever want to try a soup from the soup man that just blows everyone away.
It does mean your needs are generally met, and you can choose to meet the needs of others. Life is cyclical. We aspire to die more wise than we are born.
>>703620878
Karma isn't punishing me for the actions of the caviar socialists in my government
>>703615858
God I miss communism
>>703621045
You wanna go ahead and define how you're using those words just now?
Your usage don't seem to match no normal economic system.
>>703621166
>folksy analogies
>mystical nonsense
>assuming truth of unconsidered personal worldview
The problem is that most Americans don't know how to think rationally or what it means to have knowledge.
>>703621112
not him but the issue with your graph is that the US dollar itself was tied to gold pre-1971.
>>703621179
>he unironically thinks that there is a single socialist in the U.S. government
Fuck even Bernie was a social democrat, not a socialist.
>>703620424
Okay anon. Enjoy your dream world.
>>703620948
physicaly backed currency makes it impossible to create more money out of nothing.
fiat money and fractional reserve banking is what enables the systematic robbery thru creation of new currency units.
the answer is freedom of currency, all kinds of backed or unbacked currencies are imaginable the only critera is if someone can come up with more currency units out of nothing.
backed currency is an answer,
crypto currency is an answer,
and much smarter people than me and you will be able to think of even better currencies to our benefits.
>>703621295
You do understand that inflation is measured using a basket of real goods and just defining $1 = some amount of gold doesn't actually fix anything, right?
>>703621046
Depends on what you mean by saving. You mean handing it to the greedy Jews to use in their ponzi scams? Or actually hoarding cash/gold? The entire financial industry is parasitic, and adds nothing to the true value of society. If that were the case the united States would be nothing but millionaires, but sadly it's not. It's a few billionaires and the vast majority of the working poor and really poor great unwashed. Yeah capitalism is working great for the common man.
>>703619722
read this, get rekt >>703621368
>>703620990
>>703621112
Gold is very volatile precisely because it is NOT what the economy is based upon. Look at a graph of USD prior to Richard Nixon:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Gold-nominal-constant-usd.svg
So I believe >>703620990 is correct but only when a commodity is what the economy is ultimately based upon.
>>703621332
If you look at my Remember Rhodesia post, it clearly says that I live in Norway
>>703621405
oh come on get rekt
now you start spewing bullshit and you know it
>>703621463
You do realize that saying you can fix ruling class economic corruption by taking away monetary policy is just as stupid as saying you can stop murder by taking away guns, right?
>>703621405
the fiat money is what enables the ponzi scam you idiot
>>703621555
no
if i use your analogy, it would not take away the gun, it would take away the murderer.
the money system is what enables your "ruling class economic corruption"
>>703621623
Show me where the real money that represents your mortgage is then dipshit.
>>703620403
So first I was into von Mises and objectivism, but now I must be a fascist? The laughs keep coming.
But 2/10 for making me click that link and read the "quiz"
>>703621403
You misunderstand my point. Your graph is the price of gold in USD, however, before 1971, the USD was intrinsically tied to gold; the point you're trying to make has an autocorrelation issue. You're trying to say gold itself is volatile but this volatility is measured in USD which was decoupled after 1971, but before that, we can see a total lack of volatility.
>>703621555
But you do stop gun crime. So...
>>703621121
>The only thing that would change is the value of each gram.
There was a time, prior to 1974 when Gold prices were pretty stable because our currency was backed by it. It doesn't mean the price of everything else was stable though. Anything the currency was not backed by was still volatile which in turn, means the buying power of currency was volatile (except when buying gold) - just as it is today.
Where are the naked women?
>>703621809
Scimitar crime will skyrocket.
>>703621505
>Gold is very volatile precisely because it is NOT what the economy is based upon.
So every commodity that's not used as money will have an innately volatile price?
>Look at a graph of USD prior to Richard Nixon
>define $1 = some amount of gold
>look! some amount of gold is always $1!
>economy solved
Uh huh.
>>703621859
Curved. Swords.
>>703621747
nowhere, and thats the problem faggot.
fractional reserve they call it
>>703621463
Dude.
I *know* what it entails. Bretton-Woods, currency pegging, Nixon, etc.
See, I actually bothered to study this stuff, not just listening to the rantings of someone that thinks the US going back to the gold standard will magically save everything.
Changing the value of the commoditiy in response to economic events is functionally identical to fiat currency.
If you new what Bretton-Woods was, you'd already know that.
>>703621765
But only against that one commodity. Shortages and Surpluses in other commodities still drove the spending power of USD to a volatile state. An example would be during WWII when jobs and wages were plentiful but resources were rationed - plenty of money with nothing to spend it on, aka inflation. Tying a currency to gold only makes it stable against gold and does not fix volatility issues.
>>703621737
So capitalism was perfect and there was no corruption until we did away with Bretton Woods?
>>703621898
People will always want to kill each other, just like I want to kill>>703621912
>>703621861
I'm actually saying it's not solved. It just solves being able to buy gold. Historically, the gold standard didn't fix any volatility issues. At the same time, a country's ability to print themselves out of debt didn't really exist either. I'm too dumb to know if that was a good thing or not.
>>703621112
The volatility is in the USD, not gold
>>703621829
Jesus fuck you need to know more than the words: "backed", "gold", and "standard".
The dollar was "stable" commpared to gold because it was fucking *defined* by gold with othe major currencies in turn defined in terms of the dollar.
>>703616996
Laws don't enforce themselves. Someone with faith is still propping up the abomination.
>>703622186
>I'm too dumb to know if that was a good thing or not.
In general, blanket statements about economics that do not take into account real-world conditions cannot be taken seriously. Take note, libertarians.
>>703622246
>what does inflation adjusted mean
>>703621121
Dude, the supply of the commodity is not volatile. The supply of gold in the world doesn't swing from a billion to a trillion ounces in a day, month, or decade. I'm just saying that it's wrong to think that you can't base the world economy on gold because there "isn't enough gold".
I've clearly explained it twice, if you aren't getting it then you need a better tutor than me.
>>703622057
I think the simpler way I can put my point is that the volatility in the chart says more about decoupling the USD from gold than anything about gold itself.
>Tying a currency to gold only makes it stable against gold and does not fix volatility issues.
On this point, there is some stability to be gained. Having a currency tethered to something makes it more difficult for a company to justify rent seeking in the form of raising prices without a natural increase in input expenses and it keeps a persons income from diminishing or over time, receiving less in real terms.
>>703621270
I see you do not econ. There's been a more or less agreed upon definition of value since Walras/Menger and the theory of marginal utility. Marx (and others) have tried to revive Smith's labor theory of value, but failed, because it cannot explain what we see.
Value is the utility provided by a product to a consumer.
The important things to note are that value is 1) subjective and 2) determined by the consumer, not the producer.
Your costs are irrelevant to those things. Essentially, nobody cares how hard you work. They care how much value you bring to them. here's a reason communicating value is a bedrock of modern marketing. If you're a business owner, it behooves you to understand this stuff. Most of econ is useless to small business, but not this, because it helps you understand what drives your customers.
What you're talking about is price (or cost; they can be used interchangeably here). But having high costs doesn't mean people are going to buy your stuff if they don't value it more than the other things they could get with that money. Likewise, discovering a technique to fix cars with half the labor doesn't make your product any less valuable to the consumer.
Read up on the value paradox, Menger, and the marginal revolution/marginal utility.
>>703622587
>I'm just saying that it's wrong to think that you can't base the world economy on gold because there "isn't enough gold".
I will mint one coin. The available currency of the entire world economy will consist of this one coin. This will work well because there is exactly one coin, and we will never make any new coins, ever. Problem solved.
>>703616803
Most mentally demanding major my ass, go get an engineering degree if you want a challenging major. Fucking commie scum.
>>703622587
You, or the other dude on this bit, speicifically advocating changing the "value of a gram" as a response to inflation and deflation.
That is the same exact thing a fiat currency does to implement monetary policy.
Changing the amount of currency in play for fiat currency and changing the value of the commodity in backed currency is functionally identical.
>>703622693
Seriously?
You're going to try to impugn my "econ" and drag out some textbook definitions to try to defend the idea that markets can set price irrespective of labor cost?
Really?
>>703622099
>>703622737
The silence - it's deafening.
>>703617139
This right here
This is the largest issue within the general public, at least within the US as far as I can see. Even here, it is abundantly clear that there are a myriad of people who wish to voice their opinions on issues regarding the well-being and work of their neighbours, yet have no platform on which to verify the credentials of the experts whose opinion should be voiced. With very few exceptions (futile arguments like abortion), humanity can find common ground on most aspects of life, and beyond intrinsic human rights, most discussions needed at a governing level, relating to projects and funding deemed necessary for the general public (put in place by a government), should be the product of years of knowledge gained by those intellectuals in a certain field, and should something be deemed worthy of the general publics vote due to actually contrasting or contradictory truths, the people should have the right to view the same knowledge as the professionals and voice an educated opinion. For instance, health care, while obviously one's own health is a personal issue, I have yet to hear a room of health care professionals, pharmaceutical leaders, and insurance providers break down what the issues are. Were the general public able to view, and voice their opinion if appropriate (have the same pools of knowledge to develop the opinion on), then, maybe, "politics" wouldn't just be some pop-culture regurgitation cluster fuck. While no man has the right to tell another how to live, seemingly the "anti-communist" summation of their stance (I have the right to make more money and live better, etc) ironically no matter what country or form of government you live under, you still work for the people around you. In fact, unless you have your own land and can be self-sustaining, it is impossible to live within the US without paying your neighbours and funding whatever programs you know nothing of (we call it taxes).
>>703623232
Well, that Bretton Woods wiki article *is* pretty complicated.
>>703622737
This could still work in theory. If the coin is 1 ounce, you print currency, such that the lowest denomination is 0.000000000001 ounce. Then a hamburger costs 0.000000000002, and a car 0.000000054320.
The key point of any commodity backed money, is to prevent wild expansion of the money supply and inflation, because you have to physically dig gold out of the ground, you just can't wave a magic wand on a computer and create trillions of dollars.
>>703616803
What the fuck are you even measuring intelligence in? Liberal arts deals with shit like literature and philosophy while the rest is math and science. There's such a massive gap between the two.
What, if someone doesn't study solipsism or existentialism they're stupid? That's retarded, just like saying someone that can't determine the centripetal force acting on a planet as it revolves around a star is stupid. Different people specialize in different fields you monkey.
If you actually think that mathematics and science is just sitting around, punching things into a TI-82, then no matter how much philosophy or literature you study, you might as well be brain dead.
>tfw all modern advancevents in science, medicine, and technology wasn't the result of liberal arts majors
>>703623562
That sounds like a terrible plan. I'd like to exchange my one-coin-backed currency, please.
>>703623316
same guy here
I guess my point is discussing anything at all regarding the lives of those around you is vain while we live under the veil that someone somewhere is taking care of things appropriately because our tv told us so...on the "news" channels that clearly have a consumer monetary agenda rather than a real journalistic responsibility. Until we have a platform on which to really speak on, we are living in a world where the freedom of the press is bought and today's equivalent, the freedom of the press on the internet, is severely compromised and there is no way for a people to communicate and enact change. We will regurgitate what we are barraged with, be told to vote between an actor and a traitor, and should anyone speak for the right to knowledge and transparency their motives will be obscured and they will be fed to the ignorant as a danger...Snowden etc. But hey, maybe we do have it all under control and we really should squash the abortion/race/gender topics now...
Do Something
>>703622981
>You, or the other dude on this bit, speicifically advocating changing the "value of a gram" as a response to inflation and deflation
We don't change the value of a gram. The value of a gram is determined by the market, or rather the price of goods fluctuate in what the gram can buy. But the gram itself is a stable base, much more stable than the fiat money. When the price of an item rises or falls, it is more likely due to economic conditions for that item, than because someone is dicking around with the money itself. Prices should generally be more stable, and more reflective of economic realities. If anything, there may only be an overall very slight price deflation over time.
>>703623125
Feigning indignance is not a very good replacement for actually having something to say.
>>703623562
So a thousand years later, there are 100 times more commodities in the market than there were before, but we still only have this one coin backing all of our currency, right? So clearly, since all of the goods in our market are measured against this one coin, the prices have gone WAY DOWN, right? So we've experienced some extended period of deflation related to population and market growth. Seeing this, everyone realizes that their 0.000000000001 coin notes will be able to buy a lot more stuff many years from now than it can in the present. They therefore refrain from buying goods at any one point in time. Now your economy is in a deflationary death spiral in which it struggles to produce anywhere near its production possibilities, causing wages to dry up, causing prices to decrease further, and so on.
>>703623991
So....Bretton Woods?
>>703624059
There's not much to say to someone trying to dig their way out of a hole by feigning erudition they don't have and that doesn't apply.
>>703623849
So, I propose a few developers and someone brilliant with data and encryption....like a particle scientist for quantum cryptography would be nice, develop such a platform. All discussions will conclude with an opportunity to "peer evaluate", where those whose contribution to the discussion be deemed superior (whether they are more credible/knowledgeable or, should that field be even, better suited for public speaking) are given an opportunity to voice their opinion at a higher "triaged" discussion on the same topic. The upper echelon discussions can be viewed by anyone, while to comment you must have the same peer approval to be deemed relevant. Some type of "round table" layout with some enticing graphic design to simulate the above would be swell, and maybe we can re-create a well-informed general public...have have intelligent conversations that actually lead to something
Or we can rant on image boards and see who is better educated
>>703624427
There it is again, that silence
>>703623316
>>703623849
>>703624892
anyone follow?
>>703615858
It seems like capitalist fags try to defend the indefensible because of greed, and communist fags think a government knows what's best for the individual.
I'd rather take my chances with greedy assholes than with an oppressive government every time.
>>703624912
and this is good...still seems to make more sense with an algebraically finite cryptocurrency though, as relying on some form of matter we'll eventually be able to create or discover more of seems kind of dangerous
>>703625491
and there's the whole "oh no it's in the bank you can't go in" thing...
>>703624584
>You: define value. I do not think you define value the way normal econ defines value
>
>Me: provides normal econ definition of value
>
>You: lol, you gave me the normal econ definition of value! That's dumb!
You realize you sound stupid as fuck, right? I'm starting to think I'm talking to the "I have 9 degrees!" guy. You're that dude in the bar that almost gets his ass beat in Good Will Hunting, aren't you?
>>703625867
No, I'm not that guy.
I'm the other guy that knows what the fuck he's talking about.
What's baffling to me is how you think you can define your way into labor cost being meaningless.
>>703625491
The point is that finite and fixed don't imply stable, they imply deflationary. The abuses of monetary policy are a symptom of the economic capture of political institutions inherent in a capitalist system. Fiat money isn't the devil standing between you and anarcho-capitalist utopia.
>>703626030
>I'm the other guy that knows what the fuck he's talking about.
Oh, shit. How do you like them apples?
>>703625430
or again...we have the ability to instantaneously and simultaneously contact the entire fucking world. Both forms of government were developed when this was neither conceivable nor feasible, and being able to vote on a local, then state, then national level made logical sense. But now we live in an era where globalism is real, and a world government will emerge (as opposed to the present global power(s)). How this gets set up and the transparency with which this body acts is paramount, and as a government is an extension of the united people's work efforts (already is that within the US, you do work, work gets taxed, people not you are given a product of your work), it is a fundamental right of man to know what it is you are creating. Developing a web/mobile platform for now would suffice.
>>703626094 -yeah...that's why I said "this is good" (your comment is on the right path in regards to the deflation. I was going to imply that a finitely-bound cryptocurrency would create this, and then read your comment....which explained the same concept but with matter...which is where I have doubts)
