>>702758066 He took a blackout drunk girl into an alley and fingered her, she passed out and so he started dry humping her until some passing bikers caught him and took him down and he was charged with rape. Judge went easy on him because he thought he'd suffered enough/learned his lesson etc., etc. and victim went on an SJW tirade that took the internet by storm for 10 minutes.
>dude was a total creeper on some girl >she constantly tried to distance herself from him >she gets shitfaced at a party and passes out outside >Turner decides that would be a good time to fingerbang her >gets caught fingering her >charged with sexual assault >yet the dumbass judge only gave him a few months in prison
>>702758066 Spoiled prodigal son rapes passed-out drunk behind a dumpster, becomes face of "male dominated white privilege" when given virtuallyt no sentence. Now that he's out, .... http://distractify.com/news/2016/09/04/brock-turner-armed-protestors?whm&lc_content_id=Zgx0Rlp60
>>702759113 dude, whether they were hitting it off initially or she was creeped out by him, it doesn't really change the fact that he assaulted a passed out girl behind a fucking dumpster with zero permission
>He fingered a girl who was pass out drunk in a parking lot. >He says she consented. >She says she can't remember. >Two dudes find him fingering her and threaten to kick his ass and he runs away. >Feminist professor at his college finds out and decides the case can further her career and it turns into a SJW shit show. >Dude gets 3 months in jail because it was his first offense and because he didn't penetrate her. >SJWs freak out and further the shit show by getting people who know nothing worked up over the fact that a rich white boy "raped" a girl and only got three months. >No one actually discusses the particulars of the case because its an awkward topic and any defense of dude gets your branded a rapist sympathizer.
>>702759113 the story was corroborated by others who knew them, since they had many friends in common. and no, it's not strange that the rapist would try to lie. im sorry you had to hear this from me, but your gud boi isnt actually a gud boi
What is wrong with this story is not that the guy got like 6 months of with only 3 effective months. What is wrong is that everyone seems to think an heavy sentence is somehow going to repair the harm he's done. Is the girl supposed to feel better if he gets a 20 year sentence? Call him barbarian
>>702759618 >people find him raping a girl >he runs away >multiple eyewitnesses say that he had been creeping on her for several weeks >his only defense is that the clearly unconscious woman somehow agreed to get fingered behind a dumpster >and on top of all this, he got convicted. which means a jury that had access to all the facts believe he did it yeah. im the dupe.
>>702760698 Actually, from what I've seen, the most reasonable complaint I've heard is about consistency in sentencing. The complaint is that he got off easy compared to, say, a black male performing the same act.
>>702761101 Nah I was just saying. Just been lurking this thread to see the different perspectives >>702761119 I wasn't hung up, I just wanted to clarify that there is a slight difference between full on rape and fingering a chick while you are drunk as fuck and she is passed out. Not saying it's right, just that there is a slight difference. People shouldn't be getting drunk in the first place, usually nothing but bad things come from it. Also, I don't want a debate, I'm tired and would rather just read other anon's opinions from here on out. Feel free to respond however you like though, preferably constructively.
>>702760488 This is it though I'm OP I see this dopey ass face all over the place with no explination of what he did So I'm only going on what I've read. So he Fingered her then She was still passed out though Shady as fuck Is he on the sex offenders register now then? And what will he have to do now he is?
>>702758066 My whole hangup on the "they were drunk therefore rape" thing is what if you commit a crime while absolutely plastered to the point you literally remember none of it? Are you not responsible for your actions while drunk to that extent? How far does being drunk protect you from responsibility?
>>702761301 A murderer is likely to murder again and is therefore removed from the public. You hear stories all the time about a wife or GF murdering their abusive partner because they saw it as "the only way out" and get off relatively easy.
Brock Turner is extremely unlikely to offend again, especially considering he's a registered sex offender, will probably be barred from any campus he attempts to set foot on, and will probably kill himself in all honesty.
>>702761301 Modern lawyers and criminologists mostly reject the idea that sentencing has any deterrent effect. I'm not saying fingering an inconscious girl is ok, I'm saying there's no point in locking the guy in jail for years
>>702759418 you made most of that up >the two guys caught him >he was arrested and charged at the scene >there was a public outcry >just because you dont know shit does not mean that the case was not discussed stop being a faggot
>>702761615 OK, after this explanation I'll agree with you that there is a difference in a literal sense. However, and I think this is fairly commonly agreed upon, I'd say that the fact that he or she is drunk is not an acceptable defense for his actions, and is not a get-out-of-jail free card. If you kill somebody while you're drunk, it's still murder. If you steal something while you're drunk, it's still theft.
While there is certainly an argument to be made that people shouldn't be drinking, I don't think that's a terribly constructive way to approach this. You have to accept that people do get drunk and laws need to accommodate for that.
>>702762149 Like I said. That was the most reasonable I've heard. He didn't get the minimum sentencing for that, but a black dude will get 20 years for weed. Granted, you don't fix people being shafted in sentencing by sentencing others more harshly. Women need the same sentencing, and we really need to evaluate the comparative sentencing for drugs vs rape.
It all comes down to a system solely reliant on biased individuals to decide the duration/severity, and that doesn't really seem reasonable to me.
>>702762496 Many academics all other the world suggest reducing jail sentences to a minimum actually. It is proven that sentences have no preventive or deterrent effect, and you are a fucking primitive if vengence makes you feel any better. So yeah, prison should be abolished except for those who are likely to backslide. And those should be healed in prison, not kept in cage like mad animals
>>702763071 Yeah that's what I meant, english isn't my first langage but you got my point. Most evidence suggest sentencing has no preventive or deterrent effect except for minor offences such as speeding
>>702758066 >Found a passed out girl. >Took some pics to send ti his bros >Raped her behind a dumpster >Caught by bystanders >Let off the hook because affluenza and "star swimmer" >Judge who let him off with only 6 months is about to lose his job
You're drunk. You think shes consenting. You can't tell the difference, because you're drunk.
The only suspicious part of this case is that he ran away, but you don't know what he thought when those two guys yelled at him.
Two guys NATURALLY assume sexual assault.
HEY FUCKER WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE
An aggressive demeanour makes the drunk "rapist" run away.
As far as her story? She has a boyfriend. There are oppression points for being raped.
So.. shes incentivised to embellish or say she didn't give consent. Even if she remembers saying to the guy "lets go somewhere together" and thats literally the last thing she can remember - shes not going to admit that. Because it's "cooler" to slam the kid.
>>702763660 No. She was just way to wasted to even realize what was happening. He dragged her to that dumpster, then assaulted her while she was passed out. He ran away when he saw the two guys coming his way, so he knew he was doing something wrong. But, hey, he's a good swimmer, so that mustn't be that bad, right? Fucking prick.
>>702763483 So I just hammer down a bottle of Vodka, and then go raping left and right, claiming I was "intoxicated and couldn't tell what I was doing". I wonder if that works for drunk driving. Better find out... cheers!
>>702763706 Sorry what? No I'm not saying it's too harsh, maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.
My point is that the real crime and my theoretical crime both concern two inebriated parties, however there was deliberate action and it is unreasonable to absolve an individual of responsibility due to intoxication. There is no other crime in this nation where we are LESS strict because the suspect was drunk/high/whatever.
It should be legal to take advantage of people that get shitfaced. When you get fucked up you're giving up the ability to say no. It's not a privilege to make stupid mistakes and expect it to turn out the way you want it. Pretty fucking dumb that he got any time at all with no evidence. Witnesses shouldn't be the only source to put someone in jail. No matter how reputable.
>>702763799 I'm just saying we are locking up the wrong guys. These biker gangs have no sense of morals whatsoever, and they never will have - no psychologists for 800 years will change that fact. They rape murder and sell drugs for fun. Turning other people in to slaves and prostitutes. Your naivety goes on for miles.
>>702763915 But there are two witnesses who found him on top of her while she was unconscious.
Just trying to understand what you believe: you're saying that if she at some point in the night indicated that she was ok with sexual advances, he has free reign to do anything he wants to her, even after she has fallen unconscious?
>>702763660 How do you know that she didn't consent to being fingered and passed out 10 seconds before the swedish men arrived? She can't remember and neither can he. So.. theres no evidence either way and we are just pulling at straws here.
>>702764006 Okay, so on the flip side, if you, as a woman, get hammered, fuck dudes left and right, you can claim you were "intoxicated and couldn't consent"?
The point is diminised responsibility isn't a one way street.
She chose to get drunk.
There is no evidence that she didn't consent. No evidence that they didn't leave together.
She can't remember saying no.. so.. she also can't remember if she told him to finger her. Do you get it?
>>702764134 Yes. I agree with this. He fucked up. He has been punished adequately for fucking up.
He didn't plan a premeditated, violent rape. For all we know it was completely consensual. His mistake was touching a drunk girl, which is now a crime punishable with gaol time.
All i'm saying is all SJW's are out for is revenge, not justice. Justice is the fact that the kid's life is irrefutably ruined by this. No one will look him in the eyes anymore for the rest of his life, he is a disgusting rapist. Justice is not the kid going to prison for the rest of his young adult life. That wouldn't rehabilitate him just turn him into an even bigger monster and or(in all likelyhood) get him killed. There is a fine line between revenge and justice that a lot of people aren't aware of.
>>702764340 Gangs form in prison, in which they teach you violence is a legitimate way to solve disputes and cut ties with commonly hold values. Gangs are a consequence of prisons and of your failed criminal justice. Being "harsh on crime" means nothing but letting your primitive instinct take the upper hand, but that really solves nothing and actually makes everything worst. There's a reason the US is one of the countries in the world with the worst criminality and with the higher incarceration rate. The two are linked, and not the way your primitive instinct may think
>>702764131 I'm saying that charging Brock with the same crime that men who spike women's drinks or who forcefully knock them unconscious etc is not fair when considering the following: >there is no evidence he raped her >he was drunk >he didn't premeditate
>>702764702 No, I don't get it. Then every guy would get smashed and never get sentenced. Every girl would never be able to touch a drop of liquor because then it would be "their own fault". Sounds like that guy knew he should back off and didn't - now he faces the consequences and all other guys on the planet with the same shady morals try to defend him. No I will NEVER defend your right to force yourself on a girl. Be a man and respect other people. Try it! It feels pretty good man.
>>702764931 Because there are plenty of reasonable people out there who use and enjoy it in a responsible manner? There are many other reasons besides that one, and if you can't actually process why your suggestion is really fucking stupid, you should look up Prohibition and the Dunning-Kruger effect, think about them a little, and then go to bed.
>>702763914 He was wasted too. They slipped away to get some privacy and she passed out after. 2 guys come running up yelling at him and threatening him, being drunk and not knowing what was happening he ran away.
The girl doesn't remember what happened so she is just saying what she's been told.
>>702765179 I live in Europe, and none of that scum came from jail - they ended up there for sure. But they seek the biker trash out themselves, because they know what they stand for. Maybe your prison system makes gangmembers, I don't know. But it's not how it works over here. Ever seen a Norwegian prison??! Pro-tip: They have lot's of gangs.
>>702765044 The letter was obviously not meant for the court. It was meant to be leaked. The whole short sentence thing was planned out beforehand.
I researched Michelle Dauber after reading that post. It turned out that was spot on. She is a legal activist for sexual assault victims and women. She doesn't believe in the right to question your accuser for many cases. She does not believe in our justice system. She wants to radically change it. I then remember all the quotes from the letter the media were throwing around. They all had to do with how the bad defense attorney questioned her. They all had to do with how the justice system was fucked.
The letter was PROPAGANDA FROM THE BEGINNING. I have also read here that the "victim" told the parole officer she didn't want a long sentence for Brock Turner. IT WAS ALL A FUCKING SET UP. MICHELLE DAUBER DID IT ALL.
>>702765497 No, and any lawyer would disagree with you. Evidence is just support in the large part of proving innocence or guilt. A large part of why we have the system in the first place is because there are many cases when we have imperfect information (evidence) and still seek justice and the truth.
>>702765568 I think her medical examination showed pretty bad stuff happened. I mean, if your vagina bled the next morning after stuff happened when you were passed out, I think you'd be pretty angry at the guy too. I'm sorry, but being wasted isn't an excuse. Or we can just free all the guys that beat their wives and/or kids after drinking too much Jack. And I believe not every guy who drinks takes advantage of totally drunk women. Even drunk, we have some limits. It seems he doesn't. And that's a bit concerning, to me.
>>702765992 And how do you prove innocence or guilt without unbiased evidence? Witnesses, who no matter how unbiased they may seem, are still human. People tend to forget and add extra things when in a state of shock.
>>702766664 OK let me first make clear that you are now questioning a very basic foundation of most western justice systems, you are not questioning me. The answer is that there is frequently not perfect information, and therefore we need to have lawsuits that seek to bring as much information as possible into an organized setting while pairing it with well defined arguments following very explicit logical procedures.
It is often EXTREMELY difficult to prove someone's guilt with evidence alone.
>>702766613 I meant in terms of quantity. There are gangs in Europe but at least where I live, we hear from them once every five years because one got shot at a party. You can't compare that to 1 or 2 millions gang members in the US + 200.000 in jail. We're just not talking about the same thing
>>702766328 You're saying it should be legal AND people that abuse it should be protected. I have no problem with responsible people drinking, but I don't believe passed out chicks that get fucked deserve legal action. Sympathy maybe, but it's not like the guy forced her to get shitfaced. She CHOSE to do that. She didn't choose to get fucked, but her previous choices lead up to her not being given a choice whether or not she gets a couple if fingers up her puss
>>702765992 You are absolutely retarded. I'll give you a scenario and you pick which you think is most likely the defense lawyers response.
Scenario: Your bike goes missing and you accuse Tyrone Daquetrious Jackson-King of stealing it. You go to court and say that you have no evidence that he did it. Tyrone says he was enjoying delicious KFC at the time your bike supposedly went missing.
Defense Lawyer #1: Your Honour, while the accuser has presented no evidence that my client has committed the crime, any lawyer would say that "evidence" is just support in the large part of proving innocence or guilt and therefore, my client and I would like to acknowledge we have imperfect information and would like to continue the case in the interest of justice and truth.
Defense Lawyer #2: Your Honour, we'd like to move to dismiss the case on the grounds that there is NO evidence to support the claims against my client. Thank you.
>>702767255 Yes I agree that it would be option 2, obviously. I'm not saying you can't have any evidence, I'm saying that evidence is only one part of the process. Your extreme case here does not well represent the dichotomy.
>>702765324 So you dont get it. So you're saying that women naturally have less responsibility than men?
That if they get drunk they lose agency, but when men get drunk, they retain it?
With that in mind, do women even have agency to begin with?
What if a woman does something bad to a drunk guy. Is it her fault?
And I really intensely dislike your argument, that I am trying to "defend my right to force myself on people". Not even close.
I want equal responsibility under the law. If men retain responsibility for their actions when they are drunk, so should women.
>>702765988 Exactly. Believes women should have special privileges under the law. Cunts.
>>702766107 They were both in a shit situation. This isn't an argument that men need to be punished for what they do to women. But that people need to stop drinking so heavily that they're fucking themselves up.
>>702767482 And I am telling you that this is not broken, and is in fact a huge part of, if not the fundamental reason, why the justice system has continued to operate like this since ancient Greece and earlier.
If you believe that this is such a wildly incorrect way of doing things, I suggest moving to a country where they don't do this. Might I suggest Saudi Arabia?
>Fingers an unconscious girl >Two guys caught him >A chunk of media portrayed him as a possible Olympic Swimmer and not rapist >Dad referred it as "20 minutes of action" >Guy blames alcohol >Judge also from Stanford >Gives him six months on three counts on sexual crimes. >"won't be a danger to society" >Judge says something along the lines of it will scar him >Only serves three months
>>702768263 >there are many cases when we have imperfect information (evidence) Imperfect evidence is still evidence that can be supported. I said you need actual evidence to do anything. Why would you argue in the first place unless you were too stupid to realize what evidence means.
>>702768888 What the fuck are you saying bud? I'm saying that in most cases there is imperfect information, and therefore a decision is made based on more than evidence alone. Are you really going to argue that?
>>702769424 And I was saying even imperfect evidence is actual evidence which is required. I wasn't saying you only need evidence you sped. I was saying you need evidence. Notice the absence of the word "only"
>>702768976 >this guy kicks down Brock's door, charges into the house >points rifle at Brock and tells him to strip down >fucks Brock's lily-white ass raw and cums inside >makes Brock clean his cock with his mouth >mfw people think this is an equitable crime to fingering a drunken girl behind a frat house
>>702769974 What evidence? Video footage? Witness accounts are not evidence. Is there proof she didn't consent prior to passing out? She says she can't remember the incident but she can remember not consenting?
>>702771182 So then you willingly cede the protections given to you even if you are to make that mistake? You are perfectly fine accepting the reality in which if you are the victim of a sex crime while intoxicated, you have no legal ground to accuse that person of a crime?
>>702771533 I have to go to bed, but if you answer yes to the question that I just posed, let me ask you to consider whether or not you believe that to be fundamentally in line with or contradictory to a belief system that you would call American.
>>702758368 It's a clusterfuck. He said he left the party with her and she said she didn't remember that, but she also made 2 phone calls during that time that she didn't remember, and she also specifically told officers that in the past, she's gotten "blackout drunk" in a way in which she is still functional but can't remember anything. So there's no way to know if he's telling the truth or not, but his story of just getting up and walking away goes against what witnesses say, and I believe them more than anyone. I read every witness statement, as well as Turner's, the victim's, and her sister's and friend's as well.
>>702771533 I don't make that mistake, the one time I did, I was with a small group of people I trust. If I cannot handle the responsibility of drinking, then I shouldn't drink. No such things as mistakes or accidents. Things happen for a reason and cause and effect.
You don't just accidentally black out. I blacked out because I was immature and trying to impress people by drinking shit tons. She blacked out because she was immature and proves it by not being able to accept the consequences of her actions
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