Ask a youth pastor anything. I will try to answer all comments.
Did you know the real significance of the cross and the church steeple on top of most Christian churches? Hint: The cross actually has nothing to do with Christ, and the steeple was not originally intended as a bell tower.
You state what you believe, OP; and I'll tell you what I know about it (no Googling allowed--I want to see how much you know about the symbols used in your faith).
AS LONG AS I HAVE TEETH I WILL BITE YOU.
AS LONG AS I HAVE GUMS I WILL GUM YOU.
I actually don't know the significance of the steeple. As for the cross, I believe it to be a symbol of the sacrificial death of Jesus on the Roman execution device, which was a cross.
I've been on and off 4chan for 7 years or so. I'm not perfect or incorruptible. I struggle with pornography and lust just like any other man. There are times when I keep it under control and times when I fall.
Well as people I like Mormons. I've only met a few but the ones I have I've really respected. They tend to have a genuine faith and a sense of urgency to share that with others, which is great. As a belief system, however, it's false and close to being a cult in my mind.
A creator could be there, but considering the endless possibilities due the age and size of the universe and our own insignificance in it, doesn't it seem rather unlikely to you, that a god or religion would cater so much to our various needs and wishes? Of course religion does explain that (choosen ones, created from his image and so on), but the fact, that several of them exist and flourished as soon as humans had the infrastructure for it to thrive, seems rather unlikely. I think it even seems selfish, when you really look at the size of the universe. We are so tiny, our minds do not even have the capacity to imagine how tiny we really are.
That's my reason for not believing. I know a few religions (obviously the big 5), but every additional one seems just as likely as the one we were raised with, two of the other big ones are almost exactly identical. Would be interested to hear how a religious person thinks about that.
I mean I would really react so much as share with them what I believe and invite them to share what they believe. I think forming a relationship with someone should precede telling them what they are doing is wrong.
Very good topic. I agree that there's a tendency to feel silly assuming a God that created such a huge universe would put so much focus on us. I think of it like this: if a truly all powerful being created the earth, he could choose to make the entire universe relatively small or relatively huge. Making it bigger isn't exactly any harder. The reason for making a huge universe could be that he wanted us to have an idea of who he was by observing what he was capable of.
I have an alternate theory as well. At the time of creation it was intended that we would not die but live in the paradise created for us for eternity. Obviously there's logistical issues there with the limited size of the earth... but lo and behold we find ourselves in a HUGE and infinitely expanding universe. I find it reasonable that humankind was intended to populate the entire expanse of the universe... forever. We also would be much much smarter if no one ever died and sin had not entered the world.
I would feel fairly angry and upset of course. I would blame whoever did it but I also understand that apart from Christ humankind is hopelessly evil. We live in a fallen world and I know tragedies occur. I also know that my children would be safe in Gods arms if something happened to them.
Good point. Except I don't believe the sin-part and would think of it more as future generations will live longer (forever somday?), have advanced technology and might use more space. Except the universe is still to large for that, because it is expanding faster than travel is physically possible, so we (or any matter) can never reach the end of it.
What do you say to the problem that there are so many religions and all of them seemed to be designed to be likened by humans? I would think a religion we do not like would be just as likely to be true, except it would not be known, because nobody would share it. This is the hard part to argue about, because at this point nobody can prove anything and it comes down to believing.
You really shouldn't take the bible as god's word. It may be describing all the things god said and wants, but it was still written by a man. By many men actually. Therefore it has to contain a bunch of mistakes, maybe even crucial ones.
Okay. What do you mean when you say that you belive it's all true, but not to be taken litteraly? I mean, Adam and Eve for example. Were they the first persons here on earth, did they in fact exist?
lol where does the bible say he can create a rock he can't lift? That isn't a thing that can be created it's an idea. Like a married bachelor. The bible doesn't say anything about God defying the rules of logic. In fact God gave us logic to be able to figure these things out.
A core tenant of Christianity is the belief that God has preserved his word and protected it from the errors of man. If he thought so much as to give it in the first place wouldn't he have thought to preserve it?
Well the Bible does say the Jesus brought a man back from the dead, cured a leper with his bare hands, the Red Sea parted for Moses etc. etc. In addition, there are multiples times throughout human history where the Church has attempted to hinder the progress of science and social development. That seems to be a bit contradictory.
Yea I get what you're saying. Actually I find Christianity to be pretty anti- what we would like. What I mean is for one thing the Jews wanted their savior to be a political leader who would defeat the Romans. I think of Christianity had been fabricated it would be a lot more um... heroic I guess. Jesus died shamed and beaten and bleeding on a cross. His message was about denying our fleshly "wants" and being obedient to a higher power. If I were creating a religion it would be nothing like any of that, honestly.
You seem onto something OP. I have some questions.
are there any forums I can go to where I can ask questions and not get answers you would expect from crazy funds?
I was baptized as a catholic baby but am a Christian now. Do I have to get baptized again?
What do you believe gives Christianity validity over Judaism and islam?
Why does the bible say contradicting things sometimes? is it just the context somethings are taken in?
I believe they did exist. It seems that Jesus believed that as well. What I mean by not taken literally is there's a lot of different types of writing in there. Some of it is descriptive prose which seems to be intended to be literal accounts of events, and some of it is obviously poetry which is figurative.
What's the flavor of young boys' dicks?
one more question. same anon
I remember hearing a while ago that time passes differently to God. Is it possible that the 7 days in genesis that it took God to create everything actually took the billions of years that it did for earth to become what we know it?
The audience were people oppressed by the Romans. But even today, everybody cheers for the underdog.
But I am meant something entirely different: Why not a rabbit, who wants to be hated by us and wants us to act edgy on /b/. Or why concepts why understand at all, why not something sub-atomic or beyond our senses. I would even argue sub-atomic is the most realistic thing, because quantum-state is a place where there is still room for a god to act, at least for now. Of course I am not saying that it is not the Christian god acting there, just laying out how I think about all this.
Thanks for the nice discussion, have a nice day, /b/ro.
I mean those are miracles that break the laws of physics, which God created. He can do that. He didn't create the laws of logic, they just exist by necessity. He can't break those... not because he isn't "powerful enough" but because it just isn't possible.
do you really believe all that shit you teach them?
I have an honest question. I have seen a picture floating around on the internet where it shows a woman thanking god for helping her find her car keys, another man thanking god for helping him score a touchdown, and then a third picture of an extremely emaciated african youth. this child might not know god, or at least the same god you believe in (i personally feel that if there is a god, there is only one, and everyone just needs to put their own spin on him/her). i guess my question is, what kind of loving god can justify the agony of all those children in impoverished countries?
Aquinas was a touch bias in his arguments. He was a Dominican friar after all, and was hardly going to argue that the god he had devoted his life to was a figment of his imagination.
Also I dispute your use of the word "proofs" There is no proof that a god of any kind exists, and the Faith argument is a cop out.
Actually, the Roman execution device of the day was not a cross. It was a wooden stake. The Greek words used in the original texts of the books of the New Testament are xulon, which means a tree, but not a living tree; and stauros which means “an upright stake,” to which criminals were nailed for execution during the rule of the Roman Empire.
The cross came to be used as the symbol of the structure upon which Christ was crucified when the Catholic Church was wooing pagan worshipers into the church. Several pagan deities were portrayed as having been crucified on crosses, and the Egyptian symbol of the Ankh was a cross-like symbol. The Catholic papacy modified its portrayal of Christ's crucifixion from being nailed to a xulon or stauros (tree, or stake) to a cross.
As for the steeple, it was a pagan symbol adapted by the Catholic Church as part of the papacy's efforts to lure pagan worshipers into the church, much the way that idols were given the names of Saints with the same attributes of pagan gods. The steeple now used on so many churches was actually a phallic symbol--in other words, it symbolized the penis, which was an object of worship in some pagan cultures. The pagan symbolism was masked by the Catholic and Protestant churches by making the steeples double as bell towers.
i love it when xtians say others aren't true xtians. very christlike.
>youre all fuckers.
why? was religious for 40+ years. i've never been happier or felt more peace than when i set it all down.
there is no god.
the hindus aren't right are they? the muslims aren't right either? buddhists are dumb too, right?but christians got it right!
This is a complicated question and a very valid one. It's hard to answer and there's a lot I don't know. What I do know is God is loving even though he allows suffering. I also know that human suffering is only temporary and that God deals justly with all individuals after life is over. I don't know why he ordered things the way he did, but I do know he's just, and good.
> We are so tiny, our minds do not even have the capacity to imagine how tiny we really are.
That's my reason for not believing.
So, you're saying that you don't believe in God, because your mind is so tiny?
For an infinitely powerful (Omnipotent) Creator, the size of the Universe is irrelevant. You're right, though in your assessment of our understanding of such an entity. However, that speaks to our incapacity to understand, not to a Creator God's existence.
If you read the Scriptures, you will see that the creation of humans was at once an act of love and an exercise in free will--the free will of two creatures made in the image of the Creator who were given only one simple restriction: "Of all of the trees of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, lest you die." (paraphrased). It was a simple test of obedience by choice rather than coercion. In the event that the first couple were deceived by Satan (the serpent who deceived Eve in the garden) and disobeyed the Creator, the plan of salvation was put into place to pay the price of willful disobedience, which was death, so that humans could be forgiven and their sins atoned for.
As for the vastness of the universe, an infinitely powerful Creator could have spoken the universe into existence and caused it to expand to its present size in an instant, not billions of years. Such a Creator would also be able to form the earth and the solar system of which it is a part, created life on the planet, and create human beings in a literal week with no problem.
It is also revealed in the Holy Scriptures that the same Creator made other worlds and other intelligent entities. The earth and humanity were just a tiny facet in the creation of the universe. Read the book of Job, where the delegates of all the other inhabited planets in the universe were gathered together for a meeting with the Creator, and Satan showed up as prince of this world.
it's that very ... smugness... of having been transformed or blessing that is so off putting. holier than thou delusions that i find absolutely repulsive now.
i went on several humanitarian missions, served in multiple positions in varous congregations. i've donated so much time and money to xtian causes.
i've felt that same transformation...
all bs now.
in this very thread, lutherans and pentecostals are eyeing each other warily. are both right? what about the JWs? they use the bible? catholics and protestants.. who is right?
but that's it exactly. to feel like you have the truth and others don't presents itself as a form of pity to others. you come on this site to talk about it.
youre worse than vegans. can't shut up about it.
sorry, that was harsh. no one is worse than vegans
Do u actually believe a 500 year old man built a 500 foot long boat with no modern tools no help and no ship building knowledge?
that is such a cop out answer. then they should all be the same. why would jesus let his followers in history kill each other. catholics v protestants, etc..
westboro baptist church is true too?
Satan gained control of this planet by causing Adam and Eve to disobey the Creator, and thereby forfeiting their dominion over the planet. Satan then claimed dominion over the planet by virtue of the fact that Adam and Eve submitted to him when they allowed Satan to deceive them.
Satan claimed that he and his ways were superior to the Creator and His ways. What is now playing out is the Creator's allowing the universe to see what life is like on this planet under Satan's rule. All that is left for the controversy to come to its conclusion is the fulfillment of the prophecy that the Gospel will be preached unto all the world as a witness to Christ, to allow everyone the opportunity to accept or reject the Creator's forgiveness and His Son as the Messiah--the Redeemer. When everyone has been given the choice and has chosen his or her path, then the closing events will take place, the righteous redeemed, and those who rejected Christ, along with Satan and the angels who were cast out of heaven with him will be burned to ashes, and the earth recreated as it was before sin entered it.
True LOL im glad you understand my dislike of vegans.
I didn't come here because I pity you. I came here to talk about it, yes. Do you not enjoy talking about things you believe or have interest in? And I didn't present it as a preaching session, I asked for questions so that the only people talking to me would be people who were actually interested. If you don't believe it's ok with me. As for thinking I have the "truth", don't we all think that in a way? I mean why would I believe something if I didn't think it were true?
jesus. really?you just pulling this out of your butt?
ok. but that would mean hindus don't have the truth then. their beliefs are wrong, not based in truth. same with muslims. mormons? where is the line?
this is not just a hobby, this is eternal salvation or damnation you are talking about.
No. I'm getting it from the Bible. The prophecies given in both Daniel (Old Testament) and Revelation (New Testament)--two prophets given the same prophecies, except that John is given more insight as would be expected after the Messiah has made His appearance and Satan's fate was sealed by the Messiah's crucifixion.
i gotta do shrooms for that kinda delusion
No they aren't. It's more complicated than we can get into but the fruit that is produced definitely has a lot to do with whether or not someone is a true believer. That means the WBC would be excluded.
And that after that fairy tale Noah's family re- populated the entire earth? With some Asians some and some Africans and some Mexicans? How exactly did that happen? All those different types of people all came from Noah's family huh?
but homosexuality is wrong. that's what they preach against.
So you understand the importance. You know as well as I do that there can only be one truth. The fact that I believe one thing naturally means I disbelieve the others. Do you believe Christians, Hindus, and Muslims all have the truth?
you have to read the sequel to the bible, the book of mormon to get that answer.
No I just had experience with ministry through Chi Alpha Christian fellowship at my college so my pastor asked me to run the youth program. But I'm not a full time or credentialed minister. I'm an electrician lol
shhh logic will just make them confused.
10 internets say OP replies with "god works in mysterious ways" or something to that effect.
yet, some of these people believe their "truth" more than you. they blow themselves up for their beliefs. happy to do it. maybe they have the truth!
I'm not sure, really. I find the anonymity gets people to be real... and that's refreshing. I'm a Christian, yes.... but I'll have a conversation with a bluntly real atheist over a fake believer any day.
Have you read paradise lost, the divine comedy or the left behind series?
How'd you like 'em? Catholic here
Honestly? It all depends on the people
It's bad to say out loud, but if you have kids who are mentally older than the others at greater than 50% of the group you'll have a greater chance of getting more. Not OP here btw
So did the Ark sail all around the world and drop off all the different types of animals in they're respective countries? How in a time period where the life expectancy was maybe 30 did Noah live to be 600? No modern medicine. No antibiotics. No medical knowledge whatsoever. How?
Well, after this thread you should think about leaving 4chan forever. Nothing good for you here. Porn ruined my ministry and led me down a path that almost cost me my marriage. Save yourself some heartache and quit running straight into temptation. You get enough as it is.
>Porn ruined my ministry and led me down a path that almost cost me my marriage
and yet youre still here...
>They are free to accept or reject it
I 100% disagree. Kids are not able to make their own decisions. They are impressionable and accept whatever their elders tell them as fact. That's why we have age limits on things. I personally believe religion should only be allowed to kids over say 13 so they can make up their own minds.
I was forced to go to church and sunday school my entire childhood. Around the age of 10 I knew it was BS and constantly had my parents and people like you trying to brainwash me. I resent my parents to this day for forcing me into that. Memorizing useless prayers, wasting my entire Sundays, spending weeks of my summer at a camp I hated.
>be excited about seeing others come to Christ
there it is.
aye nice. Its cool to see other christ fags here.
That was alittle cringy huh, ehh who cares.
Do you ACTUALLY feel guilt from watching porn and getting laid? Should the rest of the animal kingdom feel guilt for breeding out of wedlock? How much of the bible do you take literally? Do you believe in Christian scientist hypothesis? Do you believe in any other imaginary entities? If not, why is god the ONLY entity you believe in when he's not even the oldest entity of worship? What do you think about the similarities between Jesus and all the other Jesus like figures that were around before the story of Jesus?
well ima be a super Christ fag for a sec... look we and god doesn't care.. If god knows all, he wasn't surprised you would do that. I want to stop masturbating and honestly its a struggle, but I just pick myself up and move on. Just freaking and be truthful and lay it all out before god. Ima get crap for this.
I understand what you mean. The thing is you are going to teach your kids whatever you believe to be true, and you should. I'm also going to teach my kids that the earth is round. You won't say I shouldn't, because you believe that, too. You only take issue with me teaching my kids things you don't believe.
Same here. I have so many questions that CANNOT be answered by anyone. I can't just believe something because someone tells me I should. I have to see proof. PROOF CANNOT BE PROVIDED TO MY QUESTIOMS. Therefore I don't believe. But I respect your right to believe. I think it makes people feel better kinda like a life guide system. But I don't need religion to be a good person.
Well, I mean that a lot of kids for whatever reason aren't mentally mature as other kids are. The tv series weeds kinda highlights this
Some people physically mature much slower, which also goes along with mental growth much of the time (ie growth of the brain). I've met people on here who were 16 but were 10x smarter and more mature than I was at the time, but I've also known people who were the definition of manchildren. The former went to really good universities and ended up being career driven by nature a lot of the time, whereas the latter most of the time struggled with issues like independence, and physical and mental health for a great deal of time.
By mentally mature, I do mean cognitively, but typically this will always also mean that if they are of the faithful they will have a broader depth of what it means for them, personally, to be religious and thus will be able to instill it on other kids in their peer range. Generally it doesn't extend beyond "hey, dude, you should go, it's not like what you think!". That's often the maximum. And as I'm sure you know, spiritual/religious/Christian groups have been getting more and more casual, more and more centered on personability between peers and such, and sometimes will only take a religious stance in even 1/8 or so sessions if you're doing it weekly.
Coming from an older person who's culturally religious, and I matured later, an ability for a group's more mature members to mentor less mature and "struggling" kids has a lot to do with how the group develops. What I'm going to suggest is that you consider the religious part of it as an aside in trying to get friends or whatever to come, especially since the population of youth is getting more and more staunchly against such beliefs and practices. And if you can't score that into it, just try to make it like a really casual school club if you can, where more devout members might have a coffee in the lounge and chat religion
Hope I could help.
Just ask for help. Forget the shame, who cares? It's not worth your eternity to avoid a little shame. Most men understand anyway. Kids confess porn addictions to me and think it's the end of the world and that they're the only person in the church that's ever done this. To me it's not only not surprising but almost expected. Then they learn that Christ can forgive them no matter how deep they are and they recover. It's possible. Just gotta take the initiative.
Well, christians celebrate the resurrection of Christ on Sunday. They call it "Easter Sunday", using their own words here. Christians also claim that he died on a Friday. The Bible says that Jesus rose on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:4).
So if he died on Friday, and he rose on the 3rd day afterwards, then that mean that you should be celebrating his resurrection on a Monday. Not a Sunday.
So I ask again, why do christians celebrate the resurrection on a day that he clearly did not resurrect, according to the same book that you believe in.
God isn't real and you get away with fucking kids while not paying taxes.
There is no eternity. How is your dorm in "Heaven"? If u die as an infant do u stay an infant for eternity? Do u age? If your 95 do u stay 95? Do u age? Do u have all your former wives there? Do they have former spouses there? How do u know who to spend eternity with? Are there fights? disagreements?
so which part? carefully pick of the following:
-morality is subjective, but you decided you think it's objective
-you think infinity is actually finite
-you think you can comprehend even the slightest said infinite nature of existance?
-religion is the foolproof traditional method of trolling just below calling anything on your dick AIDS and you still live in a world where that's meme enough for you ?
Form... I'm not sure. I don't know what a spirit looks like or if it even "looks" like anything in the sense that we understand. Same with age. God is timeless and we will be too in eternity. So if we're timeless we must be ageless. None of that stuff will matter. There's no marriage in heaven. Marriage was created by God for companionship and reproduction on earth, but that won't be necessary in heaven since we will have perfect communion with God and won't need to reproduce.
lol I mean I don't know if I agree with any of that but I will at least say I don't understand even close to everything. I just take the information available to me and do the best I can. We all do. I could be wrong, and I'm ok with that.
Ok. If I'm replying to the right person according to trail of these posts, you refereed to Christians as "They" more than once.
Why didn't you refer to christians as "We" or "Us"?
We're going to just have to agree to disagree. Not going to change my mind. And u are totally all in with your beliefs. But that's all it is is a Belief in something that can't be proved by anyone walking the earth. That's what faith is a belief in something that can't be proven. I can't buy into that.
Yea you are correct. Idk actually. I think it has to do with the fact that I know a lot of Christians out there believe different things about different topics. So it's hard for me to say "we" when I know there's a lot of division. So I say "they" instead I guess. Idk.
Well this might be cliche but I feel the "proof" comes through the spirit as opposed to the physical senses. But I know that there's no "proof" in the traditional sense. I'm ok with that. I don't buy into it because of any physical proof I've seen. I buy into it because of the things I've experienced.
i hear alot of christians say if the country and by proxy the countrys leader isn't "following god/gods will"(assuming they know and can interpret what the will of god is) then the country is in a "bad place" or is on the "downturn" What are your thoughts on this?
They're not tho, just like you weren't. Kids don't have a belief system, they're indoctrinated by their family and the church.
How does it feel knowing you're helping brainwash the youth in your community?