Reasons not to vote for Hilary:
>Gets a mental and physical health check up as she has health issues cause by the blood clot in her brain. - evidence : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbDBRWb63s
>When people who work with her stop 'comminting suicide' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lbu1VXZIsI
>When she stops being in bed with wall street and big busisness - most of them paid into her campaign
>When she stops being a feminist
>When she stops taxing the high earners asses off - her tax plan
>When she gets it in to her thick skull that the number of 'refugees' in your country increases the amount of terror attacks and rapes - look at europe - germany france and sweden mostly
dude, i want to fucking strangle you. this shit is so annoying. what the fuck are we even arguing about? im drunk, im watching parks and rec, and monitoring ops jackassery. get the fuck off my case
dude, i want to fucking strangle you. this shit is so annoying. what the fuck are we even arguing about? im drunk, im watching parks and rec, and monitoring ops jackassery. get the fuck off my case
I hate Trump as well, but at least his campaign isn't openly paying companies to manipulate social media. The Clinton campaign is proudly and publicly shilling in the worst way we've seen yet.
Why do people argue about the health of a woman who can literally pass off as someone's grandmother. It's not like it matters anyway i mean Trump looks like he can barley bench press above 150 without complaining about the pain
dude, i want to fucking strangle you. this shit is so annoying. what the fuck are we even arguing about? im drunk, im watching parks and rec, and monitoring ops jackassery. get the fuck off my case
In general, it's been believed to be a bad thing when the president drops dead in the middle of a term.
So Clinton shill is on average much more likely than Trump shill. Trump fanatics do this shit for free because they actually like their candidate. I don't know anyone who actually likes Clinton that much.
Because this is America. Every election cycle is a choice between a democrat who will blast you in the ass or a republican who will blast you in the ass.
At least dems aren't racist
ooh tell me her policies not that it matters cause she won't win you fuckin dip. It is like voting for any one but labour or Torys here
Really, a conspiracy like bengazi or when she said she was shot by snipers in bosnia on landing. Her fucking creepy laughter. If a man had all those problems would you vote for him, No you woundn't vote for a corrupt lier that has had more scandles than bill has had STD's then don't vote for hillary as you are now being sexist.
As you are giving her pereferental treatment cause of her tits and ass.
I'm ok with not getting the prize for voting for the winning candidate. Jill Stein is the best candidate.
Oh wait - you don't even get a prize for voting for the winning candidate? Oh my god, you must be a complete moron for thinking a third party vote is wasted. You know what the real waste is? Not punishing the fuck out of the Democratic party for their corrupt, anti-left, pro-corporate behavior and the abysmal candidate they're shoving down our throats.
>At least dems aren't racist
They exploit blacks by keeping them in poverty and then blaming it on the mean old white racist republicans. History will judge the democrats of this era as some of the most racist political entity since the pre 1860s, and the most manipulative in history.
Are you new here? This is mother fucking America, only about 1/3 of our population ever votes anyway. To think in any way it's a democracy is foolish, it's a republic/oligarchy mix
>ooh tell me her policies not that it matters cause she won't win you fuckin dip.
That's right - it doesn't. It's throwing a wrench into the Democratic party machine. It's a protest vote. Her policies are vaguely on the border of social democracy and anti-capitalist environmentalism, but who gives a shit. I'd still rather have her in office than Trump or Clinton.
amazing how many facts you are completely wrong about. Why do retards like you insist on starting threads.
I have no love for hillary. In fact 99.999% of the time I would have never even gave voting for her a thought, but against this insane child with an oversized ego, ill take that lying bitch.
That is total bullshit, republicans are responsible for the gerrymandering that keeps black communities from electing representatives that vote for their interests. They keep county income low by isolating their neighborhoods from proper tax budgets that would improve their education systems that lift children out of poverty.
Republicans are single handedly responsible for the neglect of minorities in this country for the past 100+ years following the end of slavery at the hand of the liberals.
Regressive left is some sort of absurd reactionary talk radio jargon. Honestly, you have no understanding of what the left is beyond "they have purple hair". The "left" doesn't really exist yet as an organized force in the United States, and the bourgeois liberals who you think represent the "regressive left" are despised pro-capitalist collaborators who exist to make capitalism palatable to the masses and dilute revolutionary spirit in mass movements.
Take your bumper stickers elsewhere. The combination of an unshakable yet unfounded certainty and being proud of your anti-intellectual attitude doesn't impress anyone outside of redneck America.
Vote for Jill stein idgaf how you waste your vote lol
like I said less than a third of our population votes, to think you're participating Ina democratic process is a lie. No candidate you elect will represent the people when things like citizens United ensure that moneyed interests are always the deciders of elections
>maxist nuts who belive in Social Justice and all that crap
That's just it. You have no idea what positions and ideas you're criticizing. You actively resist knowing anything about them. They're just the Satan of the American national religion. You only know them as your mythological enemy.
I am english we are more left that you and it is shit here. look at the other countries like sweden they are in turmoil and unlike a lot of people I like history. Commies didn't do so well
>to think you're participating Ina democratic process is a lie.
>No candidate you elect will represent the people when things like citizens United ensure that moneyed interests are always the deciders of elections
Yeah, that's true. Which is why I might as well register my discontent and then vote for the most radical down-ballot candidates possible, deliberately ignoring any Democrats who take money from the party machine.
I don't like Hillary either but the email scandals, Benghazi etc are conservative propaganda that the republicans have been preparing for the past 4-8 years to try and create a scandal where there was none.
If you don't remember, the fbi investigations proved no criminal wrongdoing whatsoever. She is guilty of nothing more heinous than what previous sec of state are
Yes not found guilty after what having a private meeting with the head of the FBI.
The man who was leading a fraud case against the DNC has died.
These are a lot of crazy coinsidences for 1 race
All of Europe is capitalist. There is no socialism in Europe. There is no advantage in being "left-capitalist" instead of "right-capitalist". In fact, as a socialist, I would recommend that you eliminate all welfare programs today. That way, we can have a revolution against capitalism next week (ignoring the fact that capitalist societies actively discourage class consciousness, which must be spread to achieve a successful revolution).
"Communism" isn't actually a thing, or a thing that socialists want to or believe they can immediately impose on post-capitalist societies. Stalinism is authoritarian state capitalism ostensibly meant to create an industrial proletariat capable of transitioning to socialism. At no point did the USSR achieve socialism, even during its democratic phase, nor could it due to its historical conditions. If the state owns and controls capital in place of private capitalists, then it's not socialism - the point of socialism is to eliminate all ruling classes including a theoretical state ruling class.
Fuck off Summerfag, you and your comrades Drumpf meming are a cancer on this board.
Clinton has always been our candidate.
Educate yourself - this email and Clinton Foundation shit is real corruption. The purpose of her email server was to circumvent FOIA. She was laundering foreign contributions through a charity that doesn't do any charitable work. Benghazi was overblown bullshit, but this is different. The Democratic party and Clinton are corrupt as shit, and that's a fact.
This is my reason to not vote for Hillary, Trump, OR Johnson: Alice Cooper is running.
Please trumps policies are actually very good deporting Illegals that waste tax payers moolah, drug testing welfare recipients and cutting taxes on middle/low class while raising taxes on uper high class and super rich are great. Being against federal marujauna sux tho.
>In general, it's been believed to be a bad thing when the president drops dead in the middle of a term.
Given the 2 alternative, having another election in 2 years would be your best ods
so how is female hitler project going
Black communites vote for democrats who have broken the black family with well fair. Lots of single mother hood leads to crime and poverty and more single mother hood. Vicous circle.
Also do you fucking research
Complete bullshit. Just ask yourself who benefits from blacks being impoverished? Democrats would have absolutely no one but hipster fucks voting for them if they didn't have the myth of the evil white racist republican going for them.
I am well educated, and the choice couldn't be simpler: would I rather have a corrupt politician who continues the status quo ($hillary), or an orange con artist who turns every investment he touches to shit and might start the nuclear holocaust (Drumpf)
Or I could take my ballot and shove it up my anus, the same as voting third party
don't tax the rich, they just avoid it trust me as I would. Drug testing yep, cutting taxes yep. Also legalise all drugs and just put a massive tax on them. I am some one who wants small goverment.
You are also a fucking retard. Taxing the rich is good trump literally knows the loop holes they use and plans on closing them. Legalizing all drugs stoner level intelligence
So why last election cycle did democratic candidates receive millions more votes in elections, but still lost majority of house & senate seats to republicans? Oh that's because republicans are gerrymandering scumbags who corrupt government from the state to federal level and exclusively pander to poor whites because they're literally committing voter fraud against everyone else
>status quo will be fine
>Or I could take my ballot and shove it up my anus, the same as voting third party
For an educated person, you sure use an awful lot of unquestioned assumptions.
Yo dum dum
Read this. The best way to destroy the enemy is to use those who were once the enemy.
Mfw democrats were the party for slavery in its heyday
Mfw democrats pander and exploit people under the guise of championing
Mfw democrats eagerly push ideals on others
Mfw democrats know what's best for everyone cuz they're "for the people"
Mfw democrats are for income equality, yet are some of the richest people in the world
Mfw democrats are at their worst; hypocritical, selfish, manipulative slander wring fascists
Mfw their end game contradicts their entire agenda.
Mfw no face
Yeah I'm sure only being taxed a max of 20% while middle and lower class are taxed upwards of 45% is completely fair I mean its the same amount in the end right? I really need my extra 3 million dollars a year doncha know.
Read a book nignog
I'll vote for her if she lets me do her insider trading
Hilary will win and there nothing you can do about it accept it you cuck
Please list for me the times in the last 200+ years of America that a third party candidate has won an election.
Oh that's right you can't, BECAUSE IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE FOR IT TO HAPPEN.
Unless we pass legislation that opposes a two party system, voting for a third party achieves nothing other than a short lived popularity boost for the candidate
Detroit. Democratic governance. Maryland, Baltimore specifically, democratic governance.
Minnesota? Democratic governance.
Ol' Abe was a republican. THE republican. Ronald Reagan before Ronald Reagan and fox news. Guess what party, since you're bringing up sides, was for the abolition of slavery?
Itt: we learn that politicians are responsible for woes as a whole. If you argue for one side blindly then they've won.
Gerrymandering is just cherry picking. It isn't just about race and the race issue is only taking what they know they can get and leaving the rest for others. It's a conflict of interest with no check or balance. Different issue
I pay 45% of my cash to the english gov. There was a program called benifis street between my family we could have funded it with our taxes.
I want trump it says reasons not to vote for her.
Name a reason that i should have to pay more money as a percentage of my income than my neighbour. Just cause I invested and worked hard
When democratic candidates receive millions more votes in an election yet republicans snag more seats due to gerrymanderin, that is voter fraud. They are neglecting representation for minorities that they know won't vote for them, and rightfully so. If you don't see that as more than a conflict of interest, that's when the politicians win.
Yea, you probably had extra withheld. Do your actual taxes and you will see your effective tax rate. I made about 93k last year and I paid about 17% with standard deductions, you are a retard who doesn't understand taxes.
Why the fuck would you bring that into an american tax and politics thread?
Pretty much all economists agree you need a progressive rate to pull money from the top and push it back through the economy, otherwise the money pools at the top and your economy crawls, which will cause a crash.
They are taxed at the same rate for the same amount of money they make, ie, someone poor makes 50k, you make 2.5mil, your first 50k is taxed at the same percent as the other person. The only difference is they have the money to find tax loopholes and offshore holdings along with many other loopholes to bypass taxes that poor people don't.
I don't support your two-party system and think voting for the lesser of two evils every four years because those are the choices they gave you is for mindless drones who are just begging to be exploited by the economic elite. I'd much rather register my discontent with our political system by voting for third party candidates and the most radical down-ballot candidates I can find.
Because other people need help you dipshit. If you don't donate to charitable organizations and receive tax breaks, the country your business resides in is entitled to take some and help those who have less.
TLDR; you should give money to your neighbors because it's a nice thing to do, you asshole
Really makes you ponder
Cool beans m8, at least I will have actually helped keep the orange, fascist demagougue from potentially throwing our country down the shitter. Hope you feel real proud that you "took a stand" for what you believe in with your "vote"
Then don't vote at all you tard. If they get a certain percentage of the vote, they can actually get in the debates, which will help get them actually involved and open up the doorway for a 3rd party to actually compete.
You just don't understand how taxes work, that was with a standard deduction. Look at tax brackets, they literally don't go up to 45%, so it is impossible to be taxed at that rate. On top of that, a progressive system means only portions of your income are taxed at that rate when they fall in that bracket. You either suck complete ass at math or fucked up your tax forms and they are withholding a lot extra. With a standard deduction at the end of the year, you will probably get a huge refund. Instead of being an idiot, fix your tax forms.
Cause they got rid of all the extra brackets that used to exist, so anything past like 250k for a single filing person is all just taxed at the same rate, so they barely pay anything when they make tons more.
yes I know that but 50% is fucking crazy. I lose half my hard work for the gov to take. While some pay squat and just sit about on my money all day.
Why should my neighbours have my cash. I have worked for the last 20 years on 10 hour days to get to where I am. Why the fuck should they get some of my cash. I split my cash 4 ways at this point. Invest in small companies, spend, save, buy things like gold,silver, cars and houses incase of the worst. I make jobs with my cash and they take it from me
Nobody in America can receive welfare without having had a job in the past couple months.
And good for you, you run a successful business. Maybe you should consider investment in the less fortunate as a business opportunity for positive public outreach that generates more profits for you. Nobody wins except you when you're greedy
Siding with political corruption for fear of right-wing populism is not a brave stance. Supporting Clinton means a continued expansion of the political power of the economic elite and decline into inverted totalitarianism, an extraordinarily dangerous situation as the automation revolution approaches. Trump is an ineffectual buffoon who already offered to hand policy over to Kasich if he'd accept the VP position. He won't be able to accomplish anything meaningful. His followers are right-wing nationalists who aren't going to magically go away or become less dangerous if Clinton wins. And at least a Trump administration will unite what pretends to be the left against him and fuel the rise of a socialist movement. When Obama does pretty much the same thing as Bush would have done, so-called liberals go around supporting instead of protesting it, so I don't see the advantage of a pro-corporate Democrat over a pro-corporate Republican.
Except you don't lose 50% you retard, you keep claiming you know but they aren't paying an effective rate of 50%. On top of that, as I just said, if you don't pull that top end millions back into the bottom so people can buy commodities, you basically kill the economy cause then they can only afford food and nothing extra. A few rich people can only buy so much stupid bullshit before they just sit on the money. You don't matter in the scheme of things, the whole economy matters more, which is why people make rational decisions based on economics, not muh fairness, you fucking emotional baby. Life isn't completely fair, get over it. The needs of the many outweigh your fairness.
There were no tax breaks, it is the same deduction that literally everyone gets. When I made less, I paid a tax rate of 13%, it keeps going down, welcome to progressive taxes. 93k is hardly wealthy, it is similar to a single working family in the 50s that made avg pay, the wages just suck dick now cause they flooded the market with cheap labor, so a lot of people get fucked. Between the scam of putting 50% of the population to work (women) and illegals/visas/H1Bs, etc. Blame the excessive breeders.
OMG DUDE I GET IT BUT VOTING FOR THIRD PARTY LITERALLY DOES NOTHING
Again, you are LITERALLY achieving nothing with a vote for third party. A change in our party system must occur from the inside to change the two party system
Yes, it is very amusing that you don't realize that socialism is an entirely different economic substructure that cannot co-exist with capitalism and not just when the government does things.
>OMG DUDE I GET IT BUT VOTING FOR THIRD PARTY LITERALLY DOES NOTHING
I didn't say that voting will accomplish anything. I said that it is entirely appropriate to register discontent with the two-party system instead of supporting it and legitimizing the choices that are forced upon voters.
>A change in our party system must occur from the inside
An absurd, magic-of-positive-thinking belief with no basis in fact. That will never work in our system unless you magically get more money than the billionaires who buy policies from both parties.
>hurr durr I want to punish people more successful than me because I'm a bitter little fucking peasant
"Socialized" is not "socialism". I don't know why you assume that similar words must mean the same thing. You should actually find out what they mean instead of making that assumption.
You claim to have no expectation for a third party win with your vote, and then come up with this shit? A third party in the mix would result in no majority achieved during a popular election.
I just invest and if I get a return I am happy as long as I get back my cash. Also in england you kinda can.
So even though I invest in small busisness and create jobs, I prevent people from getting money? So even thou my effective rate is about 35-40% tax. How will it help giving people benifits and welfare. They just waste my cash that I could be investing into creating jobs.
>A third party in the mix would result in no majority achieved during a popular election.
So it's like a wrench thrown into the machine, exacerbating public anger towards a political system by the rich and for the rich? Good, just as intended.
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Anonymous OMG HITLERLY’S A SICK DICK TATER DURR 08/24/16(Wed)17:46:00 OMG HITLERLY’S A SICK DICK TATER DURR No.701012452▶
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No, it isn't "better than nothing" - that's the mistake that social democrats always make. The welfare programs and concessions ensure that the economic ruling class can stay in power. Without the New Deal, we would have had a socialist revolution in the United States. If you support "elements of socialism" without getting rid of the ruling class and their economic base of power, than you serve the corrupt rich just as much as the libertarians or the right-wing nationalists, just in a different role - you are the pressure release valve that keeps the corrupt rich in power, preventing their exploitative economic system from exploding in their faces.
It doesn't matter. Voting for a winner doesn't matter. Voting doesn't matter at all in a managed democracy. The only thing you can do is maintain your principles. So when they offer you two evils, you throw that vote back into their faces and organize against them for real change.
Those jobs won't exist if people can't afford to buy what you produce, right? You wouldn't have business protections, LLC protections, etc. without the society, ie everyone that works in it. Basically it is a symbiotic relationship but you seem to think it is some benevolence on your part, when it isn't. You hire because you have to, not cause you just like handing out jobs. The people who work for you provide a service to you for money, that is the end of it. If you didn't have protections of society such as laws, police, protections, etc., people could just rob you, destroy your livelihood, sue you and come after personal assets, etc.
So, with this in mind, you do owe the rest of society things but even ignoring that, you still need to have a flowing economy to continue selling a product, otherwise the whole thing collapses. An economy is literally just the flow of money, if you pool the money and it stops, the whole thing crashes. So, the way they do this is to pull money from the top and give back tax breaks to people who make less, so basically higher earners, myself included, take some of that load off the poorer people so they can go spend some money on things. The progressive rate assures that this increases the load on the higher end cause after a certain point, you have plenty to buy all the bullshit you need but we need poor people to buy commodities and not just food, otherwise you sell like 200 TVs to a few rich people and it collapses.
I understand you want to stamp your feet and piss and moan but economics is a bit more complex than your feelings. It is painful how hard it is for you to understand these basic concepts, it really is.
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It's funny how all of the fallacies /b/ and /pol/ love naming so much are completely forgotten when discussing alternatives to our current society. That's what would be called a "false choice" in any other context, I believe. Then you're going to offer a list of historical examples and I'll have to explain that this is an inductive fallacy that relies on ignoring all historical conditions. Really, it would be much better if you started thinking for yourself and asking intelligent questions.
>A stupid, crazy and corrupt criminal
>Or a moron who has policies that make sarah palin's polices look like gold
Those are the same candidate.
Clinton on the other hand is intelligent, educated, stable and every single investigation has cleared her of criminal activity
Please list for me the instances in which a revolution that you speak of has happened in a country, and then that country has benefitted in the long run because of it.
The proletariat uprising is literally the perfect narrative for populist leaders to peddle to weak minded individuals who can't accept their relative insignificance. At least the socialized elements we have take care of the interests of the working class and not just the elite.
It is universal nature for hierarchies of power to occur, the only times we will ever be "equal" as you say are before Birth and after we death
Yeah it's so hivemind of me to point out that anon (you?) is this "I so totally don't trust government" dipshit who thinks we wouldn't descend into anarchy if a "social revolution" actually happened in this country without a sound transition.
I was right
Bet I make more jobs with my cash than the gov does with my cash. My cash doesn't have to go through 15 levels of burocracy all adding fees
Ages ago I think I put something down. so After the most reacent claims she had a meeting with the FBI head and was then cleared. Fishy
Fuck Hillary and fuck Trump
This whole election is a fucking embarrassment the whole country should be ashamed that people like Hillary and Trump have gotten this far. This is a bastardization of democracy our forefather's are rolling in their graves.
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I NONE OF THIS CONSPIRACY SHIT IS WORKING ANYMORE THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE WE CAN USE AGAINST HER was NONE OF THIS CONSPIRACY SHIT IS WORKING ANYMORE THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE WE CAN USE AGAINST HER right
>Please list for me the instances in which a revolution that you speak of has happened in a country, and then that country has benefitted in the long run because of it.
That is a highly amusing thing to be asked for by a die-hard supporter of capitalism. Why do you think the world is no longer ruled by feudal aristocracies?
>It is universal nature for hierarchies of power to occur
Yes, WHEN YOUR SOCIAL ORGANIZATION CREATES BASES OF POWER ON WHICH RULING CLASSES CAN FORM (e.g. the private ownership of capital). A ruling class is inevitable in capitalism and historical societies, that's precisely what socialists believe. You will have to prove that this is a necessarily universal condition, unless we're throwing rationality out the window and simply placing our faith in theological capitalism.
>The proletariat uprising is literally the perfect narrative for populist leaders to peddle to weak minded individuals who can't accept their relative insignificance.
You see? One small nudge from the real left and the bourgeois liberal Clinton supporter proves he's no better than a Trump supporter at heart.
Alright tell me when that pays off for you. Living in our society inherently requires the relinquishment of certain values that people hold for the greater functioning of the whole. If this didn't happen, people could still get away with slavery or murder while claiming they're just being "true to their values".
This is the real world, we all have to make compromises in order to coexist. It's the basis of all politics, why do you think your interests are so special that the whole system should shut down and revolve around what you believe in?
No we didn't, dipshit. The US was born by breaking away from Britain and transitioning into a new form of government.
>Socialism leads to totalitarianism
You are embarrassing yourself with this 10th grade rhetoric. Stop posting.
>Bet I make more jobs with my cash than the gov does with my cash. My cash doesn't have to go through 15 levels of burocracy all adding fees
And that has to do with shit because? Why is it so hard for you to actually address anything? I made multiple points and you just keep sidestepping them and making strawmen to attack. They aren't there to create jobs and you don't create jobs, jobs are a function of demand for a product, so to make supply, you need some sort of labor to do so. It is that simple, you make nothing, you are just incapable of meeting the demand alone, so you hire people to help with the supply.
This is probably the most emotionally childish conversation I have seen in a while on /b/, which is sad considering you are supposed to be some business man. I would think you could logic through a simple economics argument, but you just keep going back to feelings and appealing to emotion.
>Alright tell me when that pays off for you.
When we revolt against this system and create a superior society that won't end in our inevitable destruction.
>Living in our society inherently requires the relinquishment of certain values that people hold for the greater functioning of the whole.
I absolutely believe this. But you should be telling the economic elite who run our society into the ground to keep their wealth and power secure through a subverted political system, not me. The capitalist ruling class does not compromise with us - they rule and exploit us.
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We do live in a feudal aristocracy, but at least our system has allotted some budget and man power to ensuring quality of life for working people is all I'm saying. The aristocracy has seen what happens when they ignore their subordinates for too long so they keep us at bay with social programs and assistance. That's massive progress compared to what happens when your revolution happens and the new populist party assumes the EXACT same power class, usually a more heavily authoritative one than there was previously.
If you think that's progress for mankind, think again
Ok so the gov take my cash and uses it to clean the streets and educate kids, fine by me. Uses it to inforce law. Fine by me. Uses it to create jobs, why that is why we have the free market. Uses it to fund single mothers for there stupid life choices, just no! I don't want to pay for others mistakes, and they should not pay for mine, that is why I bitch cause I see all these people on benifits who fucked up and always blame it on something other than themselves. Then they take my money and bitch at me for being stingy and I wouldn't be so stingy if they admited they fucked up. Also shit did I side step please point out the bit I side step and I will respond
Yea, not completely insane was sorta some of her weirder shit but let's be honest, she won't have any control over that shit, so I am not that concerned there. No one is going to shut down all wifi over anecdotes.
>When HITLERY IS AN EVIL GENIUS she HITLERY IS AN EVIL GENIUS stops HITLERY IS AN EVIL GENIUS being HITLERY IS AN EVIL GENIUS a HITLERY IS AN EVIL GENIUS feminist
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>When OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED she OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED gets OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED it OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED in OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED to OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN THAT BE GENIUS I HAZ A CONFUSED her OH WAIT SHE FUCKED UP BENGHAZI AND THE EMAILS HOW CAN SHE BE AN EVIL GENIUS
>We do live in a feudal aristocracy
If you don't understand how modern societies are organized and operated differently from a feudal society with an aristocratic ruling class, then you have no business expressing your opinions.
>The aristocracy has seen what happens when they ignore their subordinates for too long so they keep us at bay with social programs and assistance
You at least understand that social programs exist to keep the ruling elite secure.
>assumption that a new ruling class must always arise
You fundamentally don't believe in democracy. This is some sort of nihilistic primitivism. Of course you don't think that change could be progress. It is apparently a fundamental assumption of your worldview that progress is impossible.
That's how it's been since the dawn of time, to think that we could collectively overcome our greedy self interests is assuming a lot of good out of a race of people who have historically barely come out of the dark ages.
What you're talking about might happen several decades from now, but not until the poorest of the poor have the same opportunities and representation that the rest of us do. That takes centuries of progress.
You pay for people's mistakes anyway, people get in a wreck, you pay for those public services and higher insurance. Someone can't afford emergency care? You pay. Someone gets their house destroyed in a storm? You pay with insurance. You always pay some cause you are part of a society, if you want to be solo man, go find an island of your own and build a society completely run by you alone, let me know how it goes. Until then, you are still beholden to everyone in society, with benefits come detriments, you seem to want all the benefits and no negatives, but that isn't realistic. Think of it like business, sometimes you write off losses, take hits where you shouldn't etc. That is just the cost of doing business. I can't imagine you run any reasonable sized business if you don't get this. I know quite a few millionaires that get this and aren't really bothered by paying taxes, one of my buddies paid about 350k in taxes last year for his business, he lives great and loves that he can do that but you just piss and moan.
Yes and what happend before those with our ancestors. Any way you look at it we started from anarchy and ended up here. If the economy clapses tomorrow socity probably will colapse , then we will rebuild socity from anarchy as it is better than anarchy.
She can't walk or stand one her own, she has to have shit to prop her senile ass up, a railing to hold onto, or someone to prop her up. Libs want her because she will be a female FDR, their original saviour
>That's how it's been since the dawn of time, to think that we could collectively overcome our greedy self interests is assuming a lot of good out of a race of people who have historically barely come out of the dark ages.
So in one post you tell me that society is impossible unless we compromise and give up our personal beliefs for the good of a whole. I then question why the ruling class is not required to do so. Your very next post states that overcoming narrowly-defined self-interest and greed has been impossible up to this point and that nobody could expect those with power to do the very thing that you said was required for societies to exist.
Would you like to revise your contradictory statements? Have you at least realized that your "compromise" is nothing more than submission to the ruling class, and that we should not pretend that our current society has anything to do with cooperation for the collective good?
for the revolution that you claim will be progressive to occur would require absolutely no corruption or greed from the part of the populist party that enacts such a revolution. Humans are animals, it is extremely wishful thinking to believe that malicious individuals wouldn't pounce on the opportunity to catalyze such a revolution to enact their own totalitarian worldview
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You continually put words into my mouth. You must be terrified of socialism to keep working so hard to keep it within a narrow definition you're able to refute. Going back to /pol/'s beloved fallacies that never seem to apply in discussions of socialism, I believe this one would be called "strawman".
Why vote for Hill or Trump? Fuck them both.
The only correct answer is third party. And to all those who would say that vote is wasted....fuck you and your attitude. You are why we are in this situation in the first place. At least do your part to start cleaning up this mess and vote for someone who actually could govern.
I fully acknowledge that it is submission to the ruling class, the only other option in this equation would be some form of violent revolution. Either way, there is overwhelming opportunity for those who have the resources, the landed elite, to use them in order to maintain their control.
The concessions that such an elite have to make aren't as life threatening as the rest of us, but it's light years more progressive than just a couple hundred years ago when middle classes didn't even exist. The system we have is by no means perfect or even adequate, but it's infinitely better than previous ones simply because there is some effort made to appease the working/middle classes
Right I am fine with health care. Also I pay insurance in case I fuck up not so others can. I understand the business you take hits but some crap like welfare it is like I take a massive hit that I could have avoided with out even having to put much effort in and then just ask another business to pay for it. Like the 2008 house crisis, where the banks pleaded to the gov to bail them out. Which it was stupid to do and not to do and was complete avoidable.
Ok right lets say we get 10,000 people and drop them on another planet each with different reasorces. It will be anarchy but as people see that working togeather is better for them both they build a socity. They will fight die and make laws.
>The concessions that such an elite have to make aren't as life threatening as the rest of us, but it's light years more progressive than just a couple hundred years ago when middle classes didn't even exist.
And since we have observed historical change from less progressive to more progressive societies through revolutionary change, what makes you think that our present society should be the end of history? When "progressive change" has always meant a decrease in the power of each age's ruling class, why would you not conclude that the end of this process is the extinction of all ruling classes?
Not him, but no one is terrified of socialism. They are terrified of the tyrannical juggernaut that inevitably rises from socialism.
All socialism ever has either gone bad, is in the process of going bad but hasn't been around long enough, or is small scale, ineffective, and bankrolled by a larger, non-socialist entity.
Socialism relies on everyone doing the right thing all the time. People are kinda shitty.
Prove me wrong
All I'm saying is that at the end of the day, those landed elite who possess the resources necessary to maintain the status quo of rulership will continue to do so regardless of whether or not your revolution occurs. Progress is real and happens every day, but there will always be those who have more and those who have less. The universe is never fair and equal as you seem to believe it count potentially be
You pay higher rates on your insurance because of things people do, that is literally the point of insurance is to spread out risk across many people instead of just one person taking on the full load of whatever happens.
Welfare they do cause they want to make sure the rabble don't cause issues for everyone else. Subdue them with just enough and they will fuck off mostly, so that is the method behind that madness, it is cheaper to do that than jail them/police them.
The bailout was ridiculous but it was done by giant businesses through a system of oligarchy, which is what happens with unfettered rules for rich and powerful businesses. Welcome to the issues with concentrating power too centrally instead of keeping these things more local. If there were just local branch banks, none of them would be big enough to do that. If they had basic rules in place limiting their risk, forcing lots of the money they make back into society, they couldn't subjugate with that extra money to make more, also if you effectively take all that extra top line cash, their desire to make so much extra would effectively be squashed, you sorta helped make my points.
You mean like the complete anarchy of apes? Oh wait, they have social hierarchies that are similar to tribes. Anarchy literally means no one is in charge, but any social animal will always build basic structures like that naturally, happens all the time. You basically just picked a random thing you like, then tried to shove shit around to say that is the ideal setup. The other problem is from those tribes moves to the systems you see now, it happened 1000s of times separately but somehow you think it will be different this time? That is naive and the definition of stupidity.
Dude that's what all politicians do all the time. Trump is an exception because he has unlocked the key to unlimited free television time.
Hillary is the same old, left or right, doesn't matter. She's just really shit at covering her tracks, and Russia got involved.
>They are terrified of the tyrannical juggernaut that inevitably rises from socialism.
I'm surprised that people are more afraid of a theoretical juggernaut that might exist than the actual juggernaut that currently exists in our society.
There is one common belief that everyone who believes positive change cannot occur share: the belief that people are animals and can never improve themselves or gain control over their primitive impulses. This tells me far more about those people than it does about human potential.
Because that would require literally every human being to have altruistic and "good" intentions. Even if that were to occur, in that society unified in progressive attitude, there would still be discrepancies between some who would want different versions of that progress, which would cause new conflicts of interest which brings us back to square one.
For what you are describing to exist, humans would have to assume a hive mind like system similar to ants or bees. This is a relinquishment of one of the most basic elements of our evolutionary biology: protection of tribal/individual self interests to ensure continuation of your species.
All societies rely on everyone doing the right thing all the time, so that is retarded to even say. Capitalism is failing pretty hard here in the US, we have basically become an oligarchy, our democracy is shown to be a farce, we are spied on, our constitutional rights were bypassed again and again, so on and so on.
You seem to believe you are outside this system of human/animal nature. Just because you are self aware, and conscious of your role and have relative autonomy over the outcome of your own life doesn't mean that you're not a human. We are all bound and held back by our human nature, you are no exception
I know that I am spreading the risk but I have made a agreement with others to do that, It is like we are in a business togeather.
Response to welfare is get them working on anything please, idal hands are the work of the devil and that is all most of these people have. Stick em in call centers or instead of paying companies way to much to cut laws of gov office buildings pay them to do it. It will be cheaper and still prevents the idal hands that allow them to stew.
Some people will always want to make that much money. So let them but encorage them to use that money like I do. Make it seem like such a good thing to build a university or help cure cancer, invest in small businesses. I will be much more effective that just taking the cash and losing it buocracy. Don't encorage peoples to amass wealth encorage them to use the money they have to make money for every one via starting businesses.
Ok them where did there tribes come from? They came from anarchy if you go back far enough. Then just as you said socities form that and wait a long ass time and you get us. Socialism doesn't work, niether does anarchy but anarchy leads to socity while socialism dooms it.
>Because that would require literally every human being to have altruistic and "good" intentions.
No, it requires a different social organization that has no base of power from which a ruling class could form. It is a society in which these negative attitudes still exist, but in which there is no means for these maladjusted individuals to achieve their desire to rule over others. Socialism after Marx is anything but utopian; we simply say that we must create a society in which positive, cooperative aspects of humanity are encouraged through healthy communities and destructive, antisocial behaviors are no longer a threat to the survival of our civilization.
I didn't claim to be, and that is far different from saying "human beings will always be controlled by their base impulses". You really don't see a difference between these two (intentionally) vaguely-defined extremes?
Actually you didn't make an agreement as you are required to have insurance for both your home and your car.
Getting them working on anything, we have a glut of shitty labor, we don't need anymore really. If anything we need population controls, deportation and cut visas to bring labor value back up.
How would you encourage them to use that money? Hey guys, buy 100,000 TVs please? If you spread 100mil among 100k people, they could all buy a TV, you give 100mil to a few rich people, they would sit on it in most cases as they already would have everything they want/need. I assume you don't actually know a lot of really rich people, they don't spend that much money, especially if they have had it for a while. There are some exceptions obviously but after a while there is only so much shit you can buy as 1 person. Buying an island doesn't really do much for the local economy, 100k TVs boosts it a lot, people buying a bunch of new cars helps, etc.
Show me evidence of anarchy in any wild animal, let alone natural human anarchy. Textbook definition, no one in charge, all just doing their own thing. It doesn't exist, the only place that exists is in non-social animals but as social creatures, we have to work as groups to survive, that is how most mammals evolved.
Tribes are the definition of socialism and they have worked and still to this day function in many places, so not sure where you get this horseshit.
Yep. And the left welfaring the blacks into complacency had nothing to do with it. Give a black welfare and he'll eat for a month. Give a black a job and he'll quit and get back on welfare.
Who would enforce such things in this utopia, and what would prevent them from using that power to subvert it? People will always find things to disagree and feud over simply because of our own subjective interpretations of reality and morality. We would have to assume some kind of hive minded unity in order for what you're saying to function properly, which I'm not necessarily opposed to, but at that point we really wouldn't resemble humans as we are today
murrica is run by lizard people anyway.
with so many guns why hasn't someone just assassinated them?
is it because the only assassinations are executed by the government lizard squad?
You do realize that in order to receive welfare you must either have a job or be actively seeking one, right?
It's called welfare to work, and it's been around since Clinton's presidency.
I don't like being force into it but I would pay any way
We need to give them back the low paying jobs that they should be doing which is why I voted brexit (and to get away from the sex attacks).
I ment we should encorage them to willing build stuff in the public good. This is easy as even I know what most of them want is praise. Hell even I want it and I know it, how would I get anything done with out manipulating my self. with praise.
That's as easy as filling out a book. And it's not the case everywhere. Welfare is state run. Each state has different rules. And the rules get more lenient/profitable with the more children you have. Either way my point still stands.
Build what? They are unskilled and usually very stupid, you can't fix low IQ, they are generally only good for basic ditch digging, etc. Your choices are to pay them off to fuck off or kill them. You might be able to get a few to work if you deport all the green card and illegals but many won't. Lots of them would then turn to crime, so you pay anyway.
Not sure what brexit has to do with the US economy.
dude, i want to fucking strangle you. this shit is so annoying. what the fuck are we even arguing about? im drunk, im watching parks and rec, and monitoring ops jackassery. get the fuck off my case
>Socialism after Marx is anything but utopian
>who would enforce such things in this utopia
Why do I even bother? You are too terrified of any change in our current society to even have a rational discussion of socialism. You really need to realize that - your emotional reactions prevent you from being rational in this discussion. Does that indicate that you're arguing from a secure position?
>which I'm not necessarily opposed to
Yet you are. For all your statements about progressive changes, you are the one opposing the tide of history. This is always the nature of American liberals - you want to believe that you stand for making the conditions of others as good "as is possible", but in reality your political beliefs stem from a terror of losing the global economic privileges that come from being a member of the class that actually gets concessions from the ruling class.
History is tending towards the elimination of all concepts of rule over others. It is headed towards a minimally-refereed global democracy. We cannot remain stuck in this phase of our development - doing so would mean certain destruction due to ecological collapse, if not sooner. And you must realize that you have done nothing but stand on the WRONG side of that historical development, no matter how "progressive" you believe you might be. Until you realize that revolutionary change is absolutely necessary, you have no claim to moral superiority over the most absurd right-wing populist.
Ok so if we are paying them to fuck off then why not say "hey do you want some extra? all you have to do is [insert a crap job here]." It just stops them from being lazy dullards who sit and stew against people with money.
Also yea, welfare does not work in IQ divergent populations
Also thank god you got the point about all successful people being raging narcists and insecure caues it is true 90% of the time.
>>Gets a mental and physical health check up as she has health issues cause by the blood clot in her brain. - evidence
job goes to vp if she dies in office and tim kaine is preferable to trump by everymetric
>>When people who work with her stop 'comminting suicide'
nice. maybe now those neo-con war criminals who fucked everything up in the first place (u know, dubya, cheney, ashcroft, and rice) maybe they'll all get what's coming to them as well.
>>When she stops being in bed with wall street and big busisness - most of them paid into her campaign
Her plan to tax them all by .1% to siphon ~$300B. into infrastructure repair says otherwise bud.
>>When she stops being a feminist
Women are amazing. You wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for some glorious woman wiping your ass and teaching you how and when to poo in the loo.
>>When she stops taxing the high earners asses off - her tax plan
The wealth inequality gap is real and Clinton (not Trump) has a plan to address it realistically.
>>When she gets it in to her thick skull that the number of 'refugees' in your country increases the amount of terror attacks and rapes - look at europe - germany france and sweden mostly
We're already the most violent first world nation on the planet. Adding a couple ten thou. immigrants won't bring that # down. Getting mental health checks for crazy conservashit gun nuts will.
Because what would you have them do? Again, you have illegal immigrants/green card holders doing the shit work already, you would have to pay them a real wage to get them off welfare and no one is going to do that when illegals are a dime a dozen. You show me the business man that is going to pay them to just build shit instead of just hiring illegals.
Again, the revolution you are talking about has the historical tendency to backfire completely. I would sign up for the revolution in an instant if it were guaranteed to actually achieve its intention and not get hijacked by another landed elite to topple the current power structure, as it has always happened in the past.
I don't believe we're ready for that as a whole yet, or will be for centuries possibly.
What we have now when people are starving at one end of the planet and others talking about the communist utopia, can't you see that we're in no way ready for such a rapid transition to occur?
Ok that is true
She has excepted large amounts of money to the clinton foundation from them for speaking
not 3rd wave feminism, that is man hating maxism
Yes by just taxing everyone more
texas has one of the lower crime rates strangly enough. Also they will be in cities with the poor black communities. It will bread terrorists.
anyone in this thread
So do you have any solution? cause I don't I just don't want them to beable to just sit around on my hard work right. Unless we can get rid of them we are fucked with a big time bomb in 15 years or so. I am just trying to stop them from being these idle dumb nuts and instead make them working idiots, people who don't have so much time to stew.