What are /b/'s opinions on gun control?
Personally, I believe while people should be able to keep guns, they should be much harder to get and to keep and the only open/concealed carry weapons by civilians should be pistols. Also hunting rifles should be on-site rental only with very strict rules and stipulations
>>697679329
Why should hunting rifles be more restricted than handguns? Most crime is committed with handguns
Shall not be infringed faggot.
Have you ever smoked pot or been offered illicit substances? See how easy it is to get something thats illegal?
Apply the same logic to guns, because thats what happens.
PROHIBITION DOES NOT FUCKING WORK YOU FUCKING LIBERAL CUCKS.
It wouldn't prevent criminals of getting guns, so why should the goverment prevent a working class man to get one?
>>697679937
Im hookd,seriously wtf is OP talking about
>>697679329
I believe owning guns in a home for protection is perfectly fine. People like to argue that that is what police are for, but it takes on average 15 minutes for police to arrive on scene after a call. And that's 15 minutes that some man is in your house doing whatever the hell he wants to you until they get there.
>>697679967
Exactly.
"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"
Criminals don't care about laws. Making guns harder to get will not do anything to lower the number of shootings
>>697679967
I did in fact, clearly say I don't support prohibition, just stricter laws. Stricter gun laws have already been instituted in the past which reduced gun violence rates. Also, the second amendment was passed almost 300 years ago and our forefathers would be appalled at how far firearms have come since then; it's different now.
>>697679937
Also, because they are essentially useless and more dangerous. Handguns can be used for protection and are easily carried.
>>697679329
you actually own a k100? any good?
>>697680319
once again, I did not say I was in support of prohibition of guns
Guns help to control the population. Now I know that seams a little harsh, but seriously, alot of people need to die.
>>697679967
already been infringed. you can only own certain weapons from a government approved list. :)
>>697680538
I feel like this isn't a valid-pro gun argument
>>697680279
that and 99% of people who own guns use them for legitimate purposes such as target shooting and hunting.
outlawing them will not do any good. drugs are illegal and look how well that's going
>>697679329
Non-whites shouldn't be allowed to own guns.
Only white people should have the right to bear arms.
>>697679329
no thanks, id rather talk about all these hillary leaks, nice distraction attempt though.
Personally, I believe while people should be able to keep guns, they should be much harder to get and to keep and the only open/concealed carry weapons by civilians should be pistols. Also hunting rifles should be on-site rental only with very strict rules and stipulations
>>697680642
Alright, third time, I didn't say outlaw. Not what I said at all. Also, that 99% statistic is not true, you must be aware we are in the midst of a gun violence epidemic, yes?
>>697679329
Cool, but how about no. Hunting rifles are used for hunting as are shotguns. When was the last time you went hunting for a deer with a fucking handgun? As for okay well I said on site. The fuck would I go to an enclosure to hunt an animal who is basically caged then. Fuck off.
>>697680679
Too bad whites are a bunch of pussies that are afraid of guns.
>>697680367
rifles are useless. Yeah ok. Tell that to the millions of hunters out there and people who use shotguns to protect their houses
>>697680852
Have you been to Texas Roodypooh?
>>697680852
Leftists should be gassed.
>>697679329
Why do you care? You can't do anything about it.
>>697680319
As a person who makes a living selling guns to these criminals I can attest to this, people would be amazed how easy it is to get an illegal weapon.
>>697680815
I meant hunting should be more regulated so as to regulate hunting rifles. Shotguns as well
>>697680936
They can use handguns
>>697679329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu2Eojto2_c
>>697680936
Shotguns aren't rifles.
Shotguns have smooth bores, while rifles have, you might guess it, rifled bores.
Pistols could be considered rifles because their bores are rifled.
>>697680852
Lol whites afraid of guns? Have you never been to the southern United States?
>>697680982
True but making it harder for criminals to get guns is still a good thing to do. Even if they can still get one it would definitely reduce gun violence rates.
>>697681127
I know they're different but according to OP they are the same thing
>>697679329
You really need gun control if you want to hit what you are aiming at.
>>697681241
I didn't say that though. They are the same in that tey are dangerous weapons, however
>>697681000
That make's no fucking sense.
>>697681000
Why so we can be even further restricted by the state to force us to not live off the land then? Cause that is what you are basically suggesting. I guarantee you with your dumbass plan that we'd be charged an astronomical fee once we shot the animal.
>>697681235
I sell almost exclusively to criminals nignog they come to me when they can't go legal because of their background. And a US gun ban wouldn't slow anything down.
>>697681175
Bunch of fat rednecks living easy lifes, and shouting "muh guns"
Really manly.
>>697681418
If you are limited in where you are allowed to go hunting and are allowed a hunting rifle/shotgun for use at that specific site as a rental, you can hunt without having to own a rifle/shotgun. It makes sense
>>697680367
George Washington would have busted a nut over the guns we have today and would have given one to every American to obliterate the red coats
>>697681584
If that's what you think the whole south is its your loss.
>>697681444
I mean regulated only as it applies to where you are allowed to do it. You should have to pay to rent the hunting weapon, and that covers costs, what you suggest doesn't make sense really
>>697681587
Are you really this retarded? Damn Anon you are making my head hurt.
>>697679967
/thread
>>697679329
You're a fucking faggot. If you believe any gun rights should be restricted, you shouldn't own a gun at all. You're not a American. You're not a constitutionalist. You are a libtard infringing on others inherent rights to defend themselves.
Kill yourself.
>>697681503
Yes it would. Unless every single criminal who ever wants a gun goes underground to do so, it does.
>>697681648
Yeah soldiers holding weapons is different than criminals holding weapons though, and he would be appalled to see guns today.
>>697681127
There are rifled shotguns.
Sounds like you should study firearms more.
>>697681782
Why? What's the problem exactly?
>>697681827
Every single criminal does have to do so it's illegal to buy a gun if you have a criminal past. What part of this van you not understand?
>>697680635
I know, it's hard to get used to at first, but after a while you'll be like " hummmm people died...Meh".
>>697679329
Guns aren't the problem. Guns are the scapegoat. If you want to reduce the amount of gun violence and crime in general there must be something done about the culture and socioeconomic factors that plague certain hotpots in the country resulting in disproportionate violence and crime (places where gun restriction is all ready high).
>>697680367
>Stricter gun laws have already been instituted in the past which reduced gun violence rates.
Lol no they didn't.
>>697681998
Can*
>>697679329
N R A
Lifetime member.
Suck it, spineless liberal jellyfish.
>>697681711
Yes, but you aren't thinking about capitalism. Anywhere were those slimey bastards known as our government can make money they will. Your rental plan would look something like.
Rifle Rental: $50 an hour
Land Roaming Fee: $75 an hour
Bullets: 5 for $10
Killing an animal: $150
>>697681800
Alright well that kind of thinking is a little backwards in my opinion. Adhering strictly to a document written 300 years ago is kind of nonsensical, especially because the constitution has an amendment by the original writers of it to modernize it and keep it in tow with the times because of technological advancement
>>697679329
Only people who shouldn't be able to get guns are people in an fbi watchlist, or people with violent crimes on their record. That's about it
>>697681333
This
>>697681986
Those are actually rifles. Just because you can shoot shot out of a rifle, doesn't mean it's not a rifle.
>>697681998
People with criminal pasts can still buy guns, especially easily at gun shows or other events, and people being investigated by the FBI can also still get guns.
I think for handguns should be limited to revolvers like in the old west, that way people get to have guns, but the guns are not tacticool assault handguns. Plus we can bring back duels, I think it would be cool as fuck. Compromise with each other boys and stop arguing
>>697679329
Curious, Why do you think hunting rifles should be on-site rental only, and have more strict rules?
I'm fine with the only open carry being pistols. Concealed isn't really practical for anything other than a pistol anyway.
>>697682061
Gun permits, restrictions on types of guns available to the public and restrictions on where guns can be kept and carried have all effectively reduced rates of gun violence look it up
>>697682359
Show me a rifle that can shoot shot.
Excluding pistol caliber/.22lr rat-shot.
Step 1: take all guns
Step 2: replace with shanks
Step 3: watch all people who try to break the law get shanked.
Seriously how have you guys not figures this out yet. It is sad
>>697682403
What if I need more than 6 rounds? Cops also miss about 80% of their rounds under stress.
>>697682232
>Adhering strictly to a document written 300 years ago is kind of nonsensical
Let me make you a promise. Before I make that promise, know I am not trying to be an internet tough guy.
Know this: if liberal cucks like you convince the federal government to infringe on ANY of my constitutional rights, including the 2nd Amendment, I WILL start shooting and killing people like you.
Also know that's a plethora of Americans (e.g. current and former military, current and former law enforcement, militias, etc) that WILL join in on the slaughter.
As we tell you libtards all the time, come and take it.
How do you protect yourself from a dictatorship and crooked government if your not equally armed? If the military can have it, I need it to possibly protect myself from any governments military.
>>697682190
Well even though I mostly disagree in that there's no need for most of those fees and you are only speculating, less hunting doesn't sound like a problem to me anyways tbh
also rentals don't have to be directly government, they can be contractors to the government, etc
>>697682573
I barely know anything about firearms, but I believe shotguns are a type of rifle. Let me check
>>697682573
Literally any shotgun with a rifled barrel.
Now you may ruin your barrel, but it's still possible.
>>697679329
Do you think people go hunt at places that have the facilities to "rent" a hunting rifle?
>>697682403
>assault handguns
Although i'm sure (hoping) your comment is in jest I cringed hard.
>>697682842
Checked.
I am wrong
>>697682481
I explained it earlier on and went a little in-depth, basically they are essentially useless for civilians and are more dangerous weapons
>>697682384
People being investigated by FBI can also run for president if their being investigated they haven't always committed a crime. That's also selling without a license which is illegal.
>>697680541
Only in certain states. Here in GA pretty much anything you can afford and get appropriate tax stamps for are g2g. Also you can't be a criminal shitbag
"I believe people should be able to have guns, BUT;"
No, you don't. Stop using the "hey I'm a cool dude like you too!" ruse to push your agenda.
>>697682805
Obviously you don't know the degree at which hunters limit the population of certain game animals and what they can do if they go uncontrolled.
>>697682857
I should've said "Show me a rifle designed to shoot shot."
A shotgun with a rifles barrel is for unrifled shotgun slugs.
>>697680762
Not him but we're not tho. Legal gun ownership accounts for a less than 1% rate of the gun violence in this country. It's not us. It's criminals with illegal guns.
>>697682673
See people like you who say things like that are the reason guns are so dangerous. If you make promises like that so easily on the internet, I just feel like you shouldn't own a gun. Responsible people who actually know when they have to take life or not should be able to.
>>697682911
No, and that is what I meant should have to change
>>697682497
The only thing that has correlated with gun violence declines is these types of laws expiring, and a gradual decline over time irrelevant to exterior factors.
Go home, liberal
>>697683038
Their not useless for civilians I regularly use a "hunting rifle" to kill the foxes and wolves that try to get my chickens.
>>697683170
nope, dope. try again. :)
>>697683123
It still brings up the possibility that they are a criminal. The investigation should be lifted before they can buy guns, which would've prevented the orlando shooting. Also, selling guns to people at gun shows and stuff is legal. I've seen 13 year olds purchase them.
>>697683348
A shotgun with a rifled barrel becomes a rifle.
"A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder, with a barrel that has a helical groove or pattern of grooves ("rifling") cut into the barrel walls." According to Wikipedia.
Therefore a shotgun with a rifled barrel is a rifle regardless of whether you shoot slugs or shot.
>>697683217
I do though. It is a right, and a fair one because they are good for protection, but that's about it
>>697679329
All sane, able bodied persons should recieve gun saftey training and be giving a hand gun and rifle upon completion.
>>697683354
"See people like you who say things like that are the reason guns are so dangerous. "
So now you think inanimate objects AND words are dangerous?
No, people who say things like that are a reminder of why the 2nd amendment exists in the first place. Because if socialist cucks like yourself try to stand in the way of individual rights, the path to freedom will run red. Just because scared vaginas would rather live in safety as slaves, doesn't mean people who aren't massive vaginas wouldn't rather keep their dangerous freedom.
I'll bleed before I kneel and there's literally nothing you can do about it.
>>697683305
I said less hunting. Fair point though. However, less hunting could promote this control and also promote growth of dwindling species threatened by hutning. That's for a different thread though
>>697681986
Your fucking stupid
>>697683305
Just increase the population of predators?
Don't think mag capacity bans and requiring background checks on ammo will do anything productive. But I'm thankful we can watch California fall apart due to insane gun grabbing legislation instead of having the entire country suffer the same fate as the result of a Clinton-based AW ban that will inevitably turn into a full-on gun grab because "guns are bad, protect the children" is the progressives' bread and butter.
If Hilary gets elected she'll just send an email out to one of her cave cunt contacts and have them shoot up another gay club with a "weapon of war" so she'll have more leverage to get her precious AWB bill back into law.
>>697683801
Protection from tyranny takes more than a sidearm.
>>697679329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu2Eojto2_c
>>697683744
You're arguing semantics you stupid little child.
These things were determined long before your stupid dad shot his worthless load into your whore mother.
>>697683353
That statistic is also not true. Alot of gun violence is caused by shooters with illegal guns, but we can much more easily stop the gun violence with legal guns first
>>697684172
If this happens i will personally assassinate hillary clinton on live stream
>>697683744
You're not technically right either. Ashotgun is afirearmthat is usually designed to be fired from the shoulder, which uses the energy of a fixed shell to fire a number of small spherical pellets called shot, or a solid projectile called aslug. If it shoots shells, it's a shotgun. Rifled or not.
>>697683473
That's actually not true, or else these laws wouldn't still be in play. You can also look at specific states with low gun violence rates and check out their gun control laws and tell me that's not causation
>>697683511
Use a pistol
>>697682497
Maybe gun violence. But every one of the areas you might cite would show a net increase in overall violent crime as a direct result of said restrictions
>looking at you Australia.
And higher unrestricted firearms ownership and carry in the US shows statistical bottoming out of all violent crime, guns or not, where as the areas with the strictest gun control have the highest violent crime rates in the world. Just look at Chicago. They allow CC now and their violent crime is plummeting. It's glorious.
>>697684097
You probably don't go outside, ever.
>>697684533
Dubs of awesome truth
>>697684297
So punish the law abiding citizens before you even look at the criminals. Gotcha. I knew this was a bad thread to get in. OP has no idea what he's talking about and is very likely a 12yo girl with daddy issues.
>>697682654
Better get guud at shooting then, which with practice and training will make you a more responsible gun owner.
>>697683961
Ok, so first it was a legitimate promise, and now it's just words? Which is it?
Were you legit telling me you would shoot me and others like me without warrant or weren't you? If you were, then you sound like a psychopath who, yes, shouldn't own a gun. I'm sorry.
>>697684474
Like Illinois and New York?
>>697684176
I'm gonna need some explanation for this argument to make sense
>>697684797
If you try to take my gun you will be shot simple as that.
>>697684449
All shotguns shoot shells but rifled shotguns that shoot shells are still rifles even if they're shotguns.
>>697680367
The fore fathers didn't imply for niggers to get rights and burn down Baltimore but it happened anyway. So let's do exactly what the people who built this country wanted us to do and be the non-religious anti-communist freedom symbol of the world we were meant to be. You don't like how easy it is to get a gun leave Earth.
>>697684762
t. has never had to shoot under stress
>>697684797
Two posters genius.
Words are words. Words are not violence, I don't care what your safe space support group told you.
>>697684533
Chicago had high crime rates before their gun restrictions as well. You are talking about a correlation, not a causation. They are different. Gun restrictions may cause increases in certain crime as a result of the criminals inability to get a gun as their weapon, but overall violent crime decreases afterward
>>697680762
We are at an all time low on gun violence. The issue is the media is giving it attention now. In fact, in the 1870's (when any guns were legal), there was less gun violence then now. Because everyone had guns and they weren't an issue.
>>697684921
That doesn't make sense.
You ever take logic in algebra?
>>697684750
No, you just totally put words in my mouth. What I said was we need to reduce gun violence however we can, and this should be the first step.
>>697679329
Moderate liberal here. I know the other guys in the thread will talk about
>haha ur liberal get cuckd stupd
>we hav RITES!!11!!11!
>ur not n amercn ifn u dnt hav guns
And honestly, not all those arguments are wrong. But the way they are presented to you are custom made to ensure that you don't listen to them.
Obviously, this point has been brought up before, but its one worth repeating. We already have strict gun laws. And it doesn't help. In fact, there's very little evidence to support the idea that harsher gun control will reduce gun violence. In cities like Detroit and Chicago, they have very strict gun laws, and they haven't worked at all, because those cities have extremely high crime rates. As has been said before, criminals don't obey laws, and its very easy for criminals to get guns illegally. Why would they even bother trying to go through legal channels?
As I said, I'm a liberal. But the logic many on the left use to justify gun control is blatantly illogical. Its a common sense thing. Common sense dictates that if we regulate guns, gun violence will go down, right? Obviously that's how it should be, right?
But its not. It never has been. "Common sense" is an excuse for people to act irrationally, and I would think that liberals would know that better than anyone, considering how often its used as an excuse by demented conservatives. Think to yourself, "Will the problem of gun violence be solved if its harder to get a gun?" And the answer is obviously no. Without any factual basis, that is clear. With facts and statistics, it becomes obvious.
A related fact. Gun ownership is not correlated with gun violence.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
Whites and households are far, far more likely to own a gun, but far less likely to commit gun violence.
http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/ownership_homicide_by_state-full.PNG
This chart shows basically no correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates.
>>697679329
Stopping gun violence by putting laws out is so stupid, only a baby-boomer could think it up. If the socioeconomic system is broken, if greed-driven capitalists squeeze out every incentive for anyone except doctors and lawyers to live, this is what you get.
Let's stop global warming by illegalizing it. Let's illegalize mosqúto bites, too. Baby boomers pls go.
>>697685253
Only overall violent crime wasn't impacted over time, idiot. You're the one saying "this is how it works." and ignoring when it blatantly didn't work.
>>697684822
I'm talking about per capita. It's unfair to equally measure urban areas to smaller towns in that respect
>>697685253
Except thats just wrong retard. Overall violent crime increases.
>>697685364
What part do you not understand?
A shotgun shoots shells, but when that shotgun has a rifled barrel it becomes a rifle even if it's designed to shoot shells.
>>697684919
This kind of threat makes me question even more why you specifically should be able to own a gun
>>697685398
Yeah...by making all the legal guns illegal, ie punishing the legal gun owners.
You are dumb as dog shit, son.
Fuck off OP, go to /k/
>>697683038
But there's so much wrong with your argument. You say that rifles are more dangerous and essentially useless for civilians but the fact of the matter is that handguns are statistically more dangerous and rifles aren't "useless" even by your own omission.
Handguns make up the majority of gun violence and rifles make up the rare minority so handguns would obviously be the "more dangerous ones". Plus handguns are more concealable and compact so you have a better ability to infiltrate areas and not draw attention to yourself.
You say that rifles are useless but then provide a use for them and just want to make it harder to get them for that use. Plenty of people use rifles for both hunting and even home defense. There are people who live in rural areas who depend on rifles for protection against wild animals and they even function has the primary home defense guns for some people.
>>697683682
>The investigation should be lifted before they can buy guns
Obviously you haven't paid any attention to the Orlando shooting mate. The investigation WAS lifted on the man so it wouldn't have solved shit. The problem people have with the FBI investigation ban idea is that it would result in rights being taken away by our government without any real reason needing to be given to its citizens. Who knows how the FBI conducts these investigation and for how long? Perhaps they do it by just making out an investigation on anyone whose last name begins with Mohammed? Perhaps they don't even have to close an investigation? Who's to say they can't just leave it open indefinitely?
>>697685253
Guy you replied to. You missed the bit where Chicago has had the highest rate of violent crime in the country for years and literally as soon as CC was allowed the rate started bottoming out.
>>697685616
No it doesn't.
You can't change one thing and make a whole new item.
A fag can chop his dick off but he will never be a woman.
I have spent my whole life in a firearms community.
A rifle does not a shotgun become, simply because of it's barrel.
>>697685082
Idk why you guys think you know anything abt me but your steretypes don't describe me at all, whatever though.
Also, while words aren't violence, the threat of bodily harm to someone else is legally a violent crime, so there's that
>>697679329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6z2NdKWe7M
/thread
>>697684797
>without warrant
To restrict the right of the people and attempt to seize arms is warrant enough.
>>697685411
What are you even talking about?
>>697685617
In this case you'd be the threatening one coming onto my property trying to take my property which is my right to own. Im merely defending myself. Also fyi im not the anon you were originally conversing with.
>>697685549
It just doesn't though. Believe what you want but it's shown to be true
>>697685616
Shotguns have a smooth bore
Why is getting a car and license far more difficult than getting a gun? Shit should be regulated.
You're at the point where republicans are refusing to deny guns to people on terror watch lists. Maybe the right are so fucked up right now that you shouldn't be listening to them.
And that fucking retarded good guy with a gun argument. Someone starts shooting, chaos, people running and screaming, no one knows whats going on. You however bravely roll behind cover and start firing back, cool as a cucumber. Cops come in and see you firing shots into the crowd, what happens next Rambo?
You have this attitude now that people might break a gun law so you shouldn't even bother creating said law. Fuck, why not make murder legal, people are just gonna murder anyway!
I don't want them banned, I just want the fucking things regulated as thoroughly as fucking cars.
>>697685398
It's not putting words in your mouth. You'd rather go after us than go after the criminals. You said so yourself.
>>697685659
Also not what I said. I'm very sorry, but you just aren't good at arguing. You haven't actually argued any of my actual points and all you've done is insult me. I'm just not gonna respond to you anymore
>>697686287
There was a whole bunch of shit democrats snuck onto that list and tried to pull a Roman horse
>>697679329
I believe everyone should have the right to own a weapon and carry a weapon without regulations (that don't work). I don't care if you are a crazy or felon. I think that if everyone carried we'd see more dead offenders than repeat offenders and anyone with ill intentions would think twice about their own safety.
>>697685700
You didn't take into account that a majority of gun owners own handguns and not hunting rifles, thereby skewing your statistic because it doesn't account for any variables at all? You can't deny that as a weapon, a hunting rifle is more dangerous. It just is.
Also he was still under investigation as early as weeks before he purchased the gun, so it should take longer than that. You should know what I meant
>>697686270
No its not you fucking liar. Look at statistics for once in your life. Or kys i dont care which.
>>697685408
Let's also clarify that gun violence is not an epidemic. Gun violence has not risen in frequency. Mass shootings have, and that leads to the idea that gun violence is correlated, but it's not. Mass shootings are a complete different issue that no one knows how to address. Those aren't the issue here. Even if it were, its also clear that gun control would be even more ineffective because people who are motivated to shoot up schools are motivated enough to buy guns illegally.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics that suicides account for 60% of gun-related deaths, and suicides outnumber homicides by about the same, 60%. If you are using a source that talks about the gross amount of gun-related deaths, chances are only 10-30% are homicides. The rest are accidental or police. You are acting like there is a problem with gun violence while ignoring the demographics that make up ~80% of it.
I know that for a lot of people, its easy to write off the "other side" as being stupid or misinformed. Liberals write off conservatives, conservatives write off liberals. Its a fact of life that we have to deal with.
So listen to me, someone who is on your side and who has thoroughly researched the topic. Gun control will not help anyone. More government regulation is not the solution. If we have a right to do something, it is unethical to deny us that right based on ineffective, biased, and unfactual ideas. Like it or not, we have a right to bear arms, and if it isn't broke, the government doesn't have the right to fix it. Despite what many people and organizations would have you believe, the system isn't broken. Its silly to infringe on our rights because of something that just doesn't make sense.
>>697686408
>stop the gun violence with legal guns first
Europeans and fags sound the same over the internet.
I'm just glad I can put hole through people like you if I have to.
That was a threat.
>>697686287
>You're at the point where republicans are refusing to deny guns to people on terror watch lists.
Considering that there's no legal process to appeal being on the watch list, view the evidence against you that got you on that list, or even to be told if you are on that list this was a correct move for them.
>>697686533
Maybe some people don't wanna live in a bulletstorm. Holding a gun can lead to some pretty bad fucking decisions.
>>697685845
But that doesn't respond to what I said at all. I said I was for concealed carry, just in a sense that guns should be harder to get
>>697686278
Yes. Therefore a "shotgun" with a rifled barrel is a rifle.
>>697685928
Except a firearm is nothing but a projectile, an explosive and a barrel.
A firearm becomes a rifle when you use a rifled barrel.
A shotgun becomes a rifle if it has a rifled barrel. Even if it's pump action, even if it shoots shells.
>I have spent my whole life in a firearms community.
That's not an argument.
>>697686533
Worked in the Wild West. Not arguing against guns the Wild West saw much lower violent crime rates
>>697686023
It's really not restricting your right. Your right is to keep and bear arms, which in itsself is vague enough, but the point is to keep and bear arms in terms of a well-regulated militia. Not so you can shoot liberals and blacks from your porch
>>697679329
>Personally, I believe white people should be able to keep guns
>>697686770
But it has helped, politics aside there are multiple real world examples like Australia.
>>697686121
No, actually I wouldn't be going to your house to forceably take your gun, so that makes no sense, and the original convo was about him stating blatantly and outright that he would come out and start shooting people
>>697686959
>well-regulated militia
The people are the militia, whether or not you're in the military. "Well-regulated" refers to the people being proficient with their arms.
>>697686804
Not true. There's 90 million of us who would disagree.
go to /pol/ /b/ is for weird shit
>>697679329
A bullet is a bullet, and a gun is a gun, OP.
A handgun is no more lethal than a rifle. Real life isn't a video game. Either you ban no guns or ban guns all-together. Quit being a faggot.
>>697686365
No, I'd rather legally keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Look I'm sorry but I'm responding to alot of people so can you just stop posting if you don't know what I'm even saying
>>697686287
They are regulated as thoroughly as cars. Anyone telling you otherwise is misinformed. And good guys with guns have literally stopped shootings before. Your argument is that
>cops come in and see you firing shots, even though the cops would probably come much after the situation had resolved for better or worse, and arrest you for trying to save the lives of innocent people
>remember kids, cops are evil and doing the right thing is wrong if people might take it the wrong way
>>697687102
>the original convo was about him stating blatantly and outright that he would come out and start shooting people
Any attempt to disarm the law abiding citizens of their arms must be frustrated, with deadly force if need be. Stop acting like you'd be the victim in that scenario
>>697679329
You do realize that the Second Amendement is to keep us safe from our government, and taking away and heavily regulating rifles, and shotguns would make a revolution against a corrupt government much harder
>>697686778
See, you so easily threaten people over the internet with gun violence and you think it isn't a problem?
>>697686905
So is this a rifle or does it have a rifled barrel?
Having a visible alarm system is more of a deterrent from home invasions than a gun safely locked away in a cupboard. You assholes just have some Hollywood vigilante boner.
>>697687184
That's just an oversized firearm.
If it has a rifled barrel it's a rifle no matter what you say. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
>>697687131
And a good chunk of you riddled with bullets.
>>697686287
because driving isn't a right given to citizens of the united states - you know, one of those first ten amendments given to us in the constitution? the bill of rights?
by your logic, we should have free speech regulated (i mean, kids kill themselves from online bullying) and cops should be able to kick your door down if you're on a list of "undesirables."
>>697686905
>A firearm becomes a rifle when you use a rifled barrel.
so a rifled pistol is a rifle?
>>697687021
Australia is extremely different from America. I understand your point, but in Australia, the crime rate was already low, and everyone in the country unanimously decided to hand in their guns after a mass shooting. Our population is too high, diverse, and politically charged to do the same thing.
And lets remember, GUN CONTROL IN AND OF ITSELF did jack shit. What succeeded in lowering crime and making the country much safer was the near complete handing in of all guns. Unless you are advocating literally going door to door and taking our guns like the Australian government did, the two situations arent comparable.
>>697687128
You see? You've adapted the constitutions actual wording to fit your ideals of a better country, but when liberals do exactly that it's bad. Sounds hypocritical
Thwre should be none. Except for criminals and crazies.
>>697687247
What the fuck? Cops were at the Pulse shooting within 3 minutes. Its cops that resolve these fucking situations.
>>697687102
What
>>697687283
Said
We're all saying the same shit. If you try to cone and take our guns which we have a right to own you will be shot.
>>697687359
You call it a firearm, and then imply it's a rifle.
So the 800mm artillery if a rifle huh?
>>697687520
>>697687507
The Supreme Court decided that.
>>697687283
Ok so if laws are passed keeping you from acting like a psychopath with your gun and you decide to go on the warpath because you're mad at liberals and start shooting people, I'm to blame. Nah
>>697686808
One of the fags, not this one imparticularly, that you've been replying to. All insults aside you sound like you've never held a gun, much less done any real research on the topic, in your life. Either you're european(again, not meant to be an insult) or a teenager(not an insult) or you've just grown up sheltered from, or simply not around, firearms. Please do us and yourself a favor and read some actual stats, go hold a gun, shoot some beer cans, go hunt(unsuccessfully would be best as you probably wouldn't even fire a shot), or even take a training class. Education is key. And if you have none you're simply ignorant and right now your ignorance is showing. We care about you. It's why we carry. So if someone who doesn't care about you decides your shit is now their shit and would kill you to prove it while one of us is around, then it would end with you going home with your shit and him going to the hospital or the morgue.
>>697679329
It's statistically proven that the areas with the highest LEGAL gun-ownership have the lowest crime rate.
The niggers (lets be fair, that's who they are, 90%+ of violent crime is committed by niggers and something like 98% of gun crime) are MUCH less likely to start shit if they know the potential victims may be packing firearms.
Now, on the other hand the areas with the most restrictive firearms laws California, Chicago, Detroit, etc have the HIGHEST levels of gun violence. Niggers know that white people are disarmed so they're sitting ducks.
The nigger is ultimately a cowardly beast. They love preying upon people but only if they know the person cannot fight back.... this is exactly why they don't fight one on one, they'll bring the entire chimp pack to attack one white guy when he's alone.
America does not have a gun problem, it has a nigger problem. If you subtracted the gun crimes from niggers from the total, the US would have a similar rate of firearm violence as fucking Luxembourg and Belgium.
And since niggers are such a problem (but politicians can't discuss this problem openly if they wish to hold office), white people MUST be armed, particularly if they live in a region with a high nigger populace.
>>697686287
>Why is getting a car and license far more difficult than getting a gun? Shit should be regulated.
Guns are a right in America. Driving is a privilege.
>You're at the point where republicans are refusing to deny guns to people on terror watch lists. Maybe the right are so fucked up right now that you shouldn't be listening to them.
The problem with the terror watch lists is that they don't need to even present a reason to be on there other than that "he might be a terrorist". Are you a normal Muslim citizen who wants to buy a pressure cooker and are looking on google for the best priced one? Guess what you have a good enough reason to get investigated. Now you think that body investigating to make sure he's a normal person also has the right to say they don't have rights everyone else has?
>And that fucking retarded good guy with a gun argument. Someone starts shooting, chaos, people running and screaming, no one knows whats going on. You however bravely roll behind cover and start firing back, cool as a cucumber. Cops come in and see you firing shots into the crowd, what happens next Rambo?
Orlando Shooting: No good guys with gun = Mass shooting
Literally a while after that shooting a man attempted a mass shooting: Good guy with gun present = Would be mass shooter shot and no mass killing occured
>You have this attitude now that people might break a gun law so you shouldn't even bother creating said law. Fuck, why not make murder legal, people are just gonna murder anyway!
How about instead of scape goating guns which are largely responsibly used by law abiding citizens we attack the source of gun violence by focusing and developing the low socioeconomic areas that have highly restrictive gun laws but still pump out the majority of gun crimes.
>>697687532
Yes, what's your point? Cops are good, I'm all for cops. You tried to tell me that if I shot a mass murderer, the cops would arrest me. That makes no sense.
>>697687495
It was rising rapidly, we had the action man gun culture as well. By the late 80s shootouts in the streets were fairly common.
>>697687359
So this, to you, is a rifle?
>>697687747
>He's right you know
>>697687600
Actually, I'm not trying to go and force you to give me your gun. The way you are thinking about this makes no sense. You would have to go relinquish your weapons.
Also, this is what was actually said, so don't pretend it didn't happen>>697682673
>>697687021
Hahahahaha. Australia was on a ten year decline in violent crime before the ban. Then it hits and violent crime started leveling off. That proves a statistical increase in violent crime. And as it turns out it's back on the upswing. All the gun ban did was put a halt on moving towards a safer Australia. But it's ok because none of the violent crime that's increasing day to day in Australia is not gun crime and that makes it ok.
>>697687495
There was a cultural shift immediately after Port Arthur. We collectively realized it was fucking retarded to have automatic weapons.
>>697687507
The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:
1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."
1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."
1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."
1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."
1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."
1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."
The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
>>697679967
This.
Whenever I'm in England, it's so easy for me, as a criminal, to buy a dime bag with 8 grams of AR15 easy on the streets. Cos guns and drugs work exactly the same way.
>>697687340
>It was the largest-calibre ____rifled____ weapon ever used in combat, the heaviest mobile artillery piece ever built in terms of overall weight, and fired the heaviest shells of any artillery piece.[2][3]
Here's your answer.
>>697687455
By definition, yes.
>>697687609
It is a firearm.
A rifle is a firearm with a rifled barrel.
Is the gustav a firearm?
>barrel
check
>projectile
check
>explosive to propel the projectile
check
Is the gustav a rifle?
>is it a firearm
check
>is the barrel rifled
check
>>697687909
Does it have a rifled barrel? Does it use an explosion to propel the projectile?
>>697687507
When did the liberals do that? They never cite the constitution as the whole document goes against their core beliefs.
>>697687676
The supreme court also decided previous gun restrictions are constitutional. So either you are a hypocrite for saying they aren't, or a hypocrite for giving that definition of militia
>>697687977
In that scenario lib tards and govtards would be trying to take guns thus they get shot. It's simple really dont try to take my gun or get me to give it up and dont be a threat to me or my family and you wont be shot.
>>697687834
Yes, and Australians as a cultural group and as a demographic decided to cut that shit out. Gun control didn't do that. A cultural shift did that, combined with government action to take everyone's guns away. That isn't gun control. They didn't make harsher regulations on guns, they just took them. And it worked. Kudos to Australia. But it has virtually nothing in common with the situation in America right now.
>>697687817
You dumbass, the trained cops were in a standoff with the pulse shooter for hours. You're trying to tell me a civilian would do better and not get gunned down by the cops in the confusion. You really need to stop watching action movies.
>>697688055
>dumbshit confusing "gun" for "rifle"
Pistols are not rifles, cannons are not rifles.
This is elementary kid.
Virtually all gun control policies are utter nonsense that do nothing positive, and are written exclusively by people who know nothing about guns or crime
>>697688256
>Pistols are not rifles
They are if they have a rifled barrel.
>>697688348
No they arent you troll
>>697687713
You replied to my post where I said i don't support a gun ban, and then assumed I do. I do not. I do not support a gun ban. I know enough about guns to be arguing rn, but knowing about guns in general is not relevant to the actual topic
>>697684735
That's a rifle that shoots shot.
>>697687532
3 min? Nigga that shit went on for 6 hours. Great job on the polices part "resolving" the situation. And sure. While police response in a large city to a club that's probably right next to where the cop fucks whores on the reg is gonna be 2-5 min. Response times to residences is much more.
>>697688348
But pistols are handguns and rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder.
They are not rifles, they are rifled you dumb cuck.
>>697688001
All violent crime is dropping across developed countries. It was a direct response to mass shootings. You need to check your stats. The rate of increase dropped and has gone backwards whereas the net crime always increases due to population growth. Dipshits cite the net increase to prove their point.
>>697687692
>laws are passed
Laws which violate the Constitution are not laws to be obeyed, enforced, or observed.
>inb4 change the Constitution
Can't change the Bill of Rights
Nobody's suggesting going on a rampage and hunting people down; what was stated was that if the government tried to ban the possession of firearms and tried to confiscate them the people would be acting correct to frustrate these attempts with force.
>>697688244
They were in a standoff because the pulse shooter had hostages. If someone in the club had a gun, he shoots the guy. No standoff, no shootout. This isn't an action movie, this is a situation that happens in real life. And again, why do you think cops are stupid enough to shoot civilians? Its like you think cops are all sheep who shoot at anything that moves. They are trained, they are capable of not shooting civilians.
>>697688220
Guns are regulated to shit now, you can still buy pretty much everything but automatics.
>>697688042
Yeah i see your point but when theres so many AR-15 in circulation already it would be almost as easy to buy it. Your point doesnt really work in a place that already has the problem so bad.
>>697688013
That still is the definition of well-regulated and your usage of it does not explain how that wasn't the intent of the amendment.
>>697688583
You can still buy those you just have to go through an ass load of paperwork and pay exorbitant fees.
>>697688506
>Can't change the Bill of Rights
Uhhhhh you do do realise they are called amendments.
Bill of Rights is Amendments 1 through 10.
Do yourself a huge favour and look up what amendment means.
By your logic, prohibition should have never ended.
>>697688190
Its not hypocritical to point out facts. The Supreme Court has decided gun restrictions are ok. The Supreme Court also decided that every citizen of the US qualifies as "militia" and therefore has the right to bear arms. Idk why you're calling me a hypocrite for literally stating facts.
>>697688567
Its almost statistically impossible that security or people in the club weren't carrying.
>>697679329
So what you're saying is that you want for civilians to only be able to have guns specifically made for shooting other people because hunting rifles look scary. Got it.
>>697688131
I cited the constitution in this very thread, so there's that
>>697688434
I wasn't replying in response to your reply to his reply. I just am simply tired of arguing with someone who knows not what they're arguing about. Please educate yourself with hands on proactive training. Not what the liberals stuff into TV and Mother Jones articles that claim the AR15 is an assault rifle.
>>697688196
Making you give up your assault rifle isn't a threat. You telling me you'll shoot me is a threat
Guns have been around for many many centuries, yet now they are suddenly a problem? No, what is suddenly a problem is our culture is producing a larger number of people who have the desire to murder. Figure out why and solve that problem. You can disarm everyone, but you'll still have these psychopaths out there. That's a problem.
>>697688859
Its a threat against my right as a human. I wont do it then you can either leave or try to use force.
>>697688506
This is what I said earlier, conservatives and libertarians think it's only ok to take a modern view of the constitution if they are the ones doing it, double standard
>>697688859
I don't own an assault rifle.
Now you're a liar too.
More the reason to kill.
>>697688787
What does AR-15 stand for, and what's your definition of an assault rifle?
>>697688717
You can't alter the Bill of Rights because those right are unalienable. The document doesn't so much give us these right as it acknowledges these right belong to the people, regardless of the current mood in government. I'm amazed that you stupid people made it through high school history classes without learning this.
>>697688730
That doesn't make any sense. Pulse was a gun-free zone, so law-abiding citizens wouldn't have had guns. Its entirely possible that security only had stuff like nightsticks, as is common practice in gun-free bars.
And give me a source for those statistics you pulled out of your ass.
You're really grasping at straws here.
>>697688717
They're amendments because the whole document was amended every time a founder said "holy shit you guys we forgot one". The bill of rights are inherent human rights recognized by our govt in the form of the bill of rights. You don't change the bill of rights. They are a separate entity from the rest of the constitution.
>>697688754
What? Did you read the thread?
>>697688012
no-one had auto weps
the ban was on semi-autos
and it didn't make any difference
oh and the "cultural shift" you talk about was the hipster trash in the cafe sceene started whining about guns
>>697679329
Gun control means hitting your target. Antigun liberal cucks kys
>>697689054
>oldest dumbest troll in the book
AR-15 stand for ArmaLite Rifle model 15, an assault rifle is a handheld weapon that shoots an intermediate cartridge and has the ability to burst fire, fully automatically.
Now go away.
>>697679937
they shouldnt, OP is a fucking liberacuck fagit who has no idea what he is talking about
a handgan is actually more effective for mass shooting than a rifle, especially if you can find an extended clip, which isn't hard to do. it is easier to conceal a handgun, and easier to handle. if you are shooting people within 100 meters of you, which you would be for any mass shooting, a rifle would only weigh more and be a hinderance. also, it really doesn't matter if you have "muh high capacity mags" or not. Dylan roof, the guy who hated black people and shot up a church, reloaded 5 times during his shooting spree.
>>697688730
Not him but there was one. He was shot. Doesn't mean "America should disarm because you'll never save the day so you shouldn't even try"
>>697688717
The Constitution and the Founding Fathers stated that there were a bunch of rights that were so obvious as to not be included. Then, the states wanted it set down in stone, so the Fathers were like "ugh fine I guess we'll add some amendments just so you guys know. But remember there are a bunch of unalienable rights that we didnt mention here, this isnt a complete list"
>>697688996
It isn't your right to own an assault rifle
>>697689052
Jesus christ, it was an example. All I did was give an example and you threaten to shoot me again. I'm not gonna respond to you anymore
>>697689331
Yes it is.
>>697689017
Attempted deflection of an opponent's argument to a point they weren't defending. Play is no good.
>>697689331
2nd ammendment states otherwise bitch
>>697686676
You act as if its an amazingly high amount of people who own handguns compared to rifles.
Number of Privately Owned Rifles
In the United States, the number of rifles in civilian possession is reported to be 110,000,000
Number of Privately Owned Handguns
In the United States, the number of handguns in civilian possession is reported to be 114,000,000
Proportion of Households with Rifles
In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more rifles is reported to be
2012: 20.5%1
Proportion of Households with Handguns
In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more handguns is reported to be
2012: 21.9%
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
>>697689331
Actually, it is. The founding fathers clearly wanted average citizens to own the same weaponry that the military would have.
Pic related is not an "assault rifle" because it's not full auto but close enough. If you don't think I should own it, try to take it away from me. I dare you.
>>697689233
"assualt rifle" is a media term to scare normies
it doesn't define anything
>>697689427
this isn't even including the states that don't track purchases
>>697689054
Guy you replied to. It does stand for armalite rifle. And an assault rifle has a few qualifiers but the one that matters most is select fire. No giggle switch? NOT an assault rifle.
>>697689331
It is, and I own many. U mad? Get fucked.
>>697689328
>>697688669
Did you even read the fucking post?
>Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
>>697689532
no it is a real term
its the "assault weapon" term thats completely made up
>>697680367
You're probably under the impression that the Bill of Rights actually grants American citizens the right to own firearms. lul
As far as gun violence rates go, the US is one of the safest places on earth. Read this article:
https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries
>>697689421
Legally, no it isn't.
>>697689331
there is no such thing as an assualt rifle
>>697689660
legally yes it is
DC vs Heller 2008
the 2nd amendment specifically gives the right to keep and bear arms to the PEOPLE
>>697689422
They were entirely defending the point I refuted.
>>697689532
YOure thinking of assault weapon.
Assault rifle comes from the German "SturmGewehr" or "storming rifle".
>>697689686
Yes, there actually is. Select-fire is one of the requirements.
The legal term "assault weapon" is the one that's completely made up and bullshit.
>>697689331
"the right to bear ARMS." the founding fathers specifically put arms in the constitution because they were smart guys - they really didn't know what the hell we would have in the future, as long as it kept up with the modern military/government.
>>697689605
Roosevelt was a retard who though that he could spend our way out of the Depression by throwing money into social programs. If it wasn't for WWII and that he was in a wheelchair people would barely remember him.
>>697689425
No it doesn't. The law is the law, and the 2nd amendment doesn't explicitly mention assault rifles. If you think all arms are fair game, then maybe we should just put chainguns and mortars in every house since they're your right too, right?
>>697689537
Then please give me your proof of your claim.
>mfw dipshit fucks think the militia is the military. The militia is us, we the people, you stupid fucks.
>mfw people think "well-regulated" means background checks and red tape to make gun buying more inconvenient.
>>697689660
It's totally legal you fool.
With 10 grand and patience I can own a fully automatic machine gun.
The ought to do what Switzerland does in America.
>>697689891
>2nd amendment doesn't explicitly mention assault rifles.
it doesn't specifically mention muskets either so get fucked
>chain guns and mortars
those are actually legal so yes
>>697689220
Didn't make any difference? What the fuck is wrong with your brain? I live in Aus. It made a huge fucking difference.
>>697689891
The first amendment doesn't mention digital speech so shut the fuck up and write a letter with quill and ink bitch.
>>697689739
No, the point he was defending was that an attempted government confiscation of arms from law abiding citizens would be sufficient cause to resist with force.
>>697689992
It didn't, the homicide rate didn't go down significantly as it had been many years before. home breakins and violent crime went way up
>>697689515
The founding fathers also wanted the people to effectively be a part of the military of their new country
why do you even need military weapons? That's ridiculous
>>697689964
That example already exists in America. It's called the state of Vermont. Has the most lax gun laws in the country, including concealed carry without a permit. Currently the 2nd safest state in terms of homicide rate. 30% less homicides than Canada.
>>697680762
We're in the midst of a terrorism epidemic
>>697681000
The gun industry in the US has more regulation laws than the transport or storage of nuclear waste. You need to educate yourself kiddo.
>>697689660
He's right. And in the case of assault weapons if you aren't a criminal and have the money to buy it plus pay the taxes you have a right to an assault rifle(if your state isn't cucked beyond belief)
>>697679329
only white people should be able to own guns and access should be unrestricted.
>>697689600
I'm sorry to say that it isn't, and you are more than likely breaking the law in a crazed attempt to satiate your need for deadly and otherwise pointless weapons
>>697688452
Thats a rifled barrel for a shotgun used to fire slugs.
>>697690195
Thank god I live in a red state with literally the bare minimum regulations. Fuck commifornia.
Daily reminder California has the most gun crime per capita and has the most strict gun control
daily reminder Vermont has virtually no gun crime in comparison and the least gun control
Daily reminder gun ownership doesn't correlate with homicide, gun homicide, gun deaths or gun crime at all
>>697689964
Yeah but they spend taxpayer dollars on the citizens. Welfare, education, healthcare, so people are happier and more stable. America doesn't wanna do that.
>>697690195
WTF is a "assault rifle"?
No suck thing. Assault is a verb not a noun.
>>697690139
>why do you even need military weapons?
Why do you need internet access? Or a car that can go over 65 mph? Or a flatscreen television? Or even a computer?
It's called freedom you fucking liberal communist faggot.
>>697689891
A mortar is totally legal as long as it is registered as a destructive device with the ATF and the appropriate taxes are paid. Same goes for chain guns.
>>697689611
Yes, this is your claim, but being that it contradicts actual historical facts, I was asking you to prove it
>>697689891
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CquUBWHU2_s
Did you know it's currently legal for citizens to buy tanks and in working firing condition?
>>697689621
you're either a shill or a fucktard
>they are both media made up terms
assault is a verb
it implies the gun attacks on its own
>>697690142
reason: only 1% of population is black.
>>697690114
Check the abs. Not NRA memes. There was a nice statement released explaining why that was bullshit and how they fudged the figures.
>>697689964
Switzerland also doesnt have all the niggers taking advantage of the system.
