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Why don't millenials want children?

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Why don't millenials want children?
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>>695780265
Because they are faggots
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Range of reasons. Many millennials have been raised into a culture where homosexuality is normalized so they end up being bi or some other retarded shit. The ones who are straight are too infected with decadence to the point where they disregard basic traditional values such as the nuclear family.
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>>695780265
Waste of resources and your life is over and we are self absorbed and the earth is overpopulated already
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>>695780265
We can't afford them.

Also they're a huge drain on your time and energy and we'd rather do things we actually enjoy
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I'm selfish and don't want to be tied down by kids and a whore wife.
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>>695780800
It is also this attitude which many hold that is the reason why whites have far less fertility rates compared to other demographics such as arabs and africans. Congratulations on contributing to the extinction of your people you fucking retard.
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>>695780979
Greedy bastard, if your mother had that same attitude you wouldn't be here typing this nonsense.
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Too poor or self-absorbed. 30 is the new 20.
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>>695780265
because they are being heavily sexually repressed
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Millennials are selfish, the thought of caring for someone else let alone a child doesn't even cross their mind. They would rather live the life of a child into their 30's than settle and contribute to society in a meaningful way.
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>>695781098
Ehh, who cares; I'll be dead by the time it's a problem anyway.
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>>695781199
If your cunt mom swallowed then I wouldn't be talking to you but guess what we both lose
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>>695781098
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>>695781425
Ok so I was speaking to a fucking child. Looks like I wont be wasting any more time with you then.
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>>695781465
Yes Jamal I am
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This world is fucked, we're living in a giant reality show and I personally don't want to have to raise a child that would be the product of this environment. Look at kids now. Most of them are retarded little ass holes. Now imagine how much worse it would be by the time I have kids (I'm 22)
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>>695781721
Self awareness?
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Thats why u gotta raise them correctly
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>>695780800
>>695781361

>>695781391
Lmao summed it up spot on, these other posters prove your point m8
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>>695781098
Whites have less fertility rates because they're actually intelligent, unlike browns that breed like rabbits because they have nothing else to aspire to in life, or Arabs that breed in an attempt to outpopulate us to spread their cult religion.
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All y'all niggas edgy af tbh fam
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>>695781391
This actually. 18 and can confirm.
>>695780265
Op refer to>>695781391
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>>695781721
In all fairness if you're expecting serious/quality discussion on /b/ you're a fucking idiot
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>>695782038
Pretty much. All these old fucks wish they were niggers so they didn't have to worry about 'muh racial genocide all the time.
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>>695782142
Where else would I look to find such a discussion, its all the same on the internet.
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>>695781760
Just don't be a shit parent.

You know the reason kids today are shit heads? Because their parents are shit heads.

Now go pump some kids out and raise them to be productive members of society.
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>>695781721
Well alright. I'll be busy having a meaningful career, great hobbies, an amazing sex life plus a lot of free time and money so enjoy your wiggles concert I guess
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>>695781391
Yes, I'll have a baby just for you anon. Go fuck yourself. It's rather selfish expecting other people to follow your ridiculous ideals.
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>>695782038
>>695782314
I disagree, if whites were intelligent most of them wouldnt have cucked their countries beyond belief to the point where the native demographic of western cities are a minotiry. If whites were intelligent, they would understand the value and importance of maintaining their culture and civilization for future generations rather than destroy it in less than a century's time.
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>>695781037
biggest faggot answer ever...whaa whaa..that's you...you are the baby.
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>>695782506

You know you have to be 18 to post here right?
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theres not a woman alive that would want my seed. :(
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>>695782496
Ya but when they're constantly influenced by other people's horrible children its a hell of a fight. I see it all the time. You either have a weird introvert child or a socially normal dick head
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>>695782506
When someone has to 'gloat' about their life as if they are some elite royalty when in fact their life is pretty indifferent to everyone elses, you know they are an insecure little sod. Im sorry but the other poster just rekt you and you made yourself look like a jackass LOL
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1: I hate being around kids
2: I don't have the cash and nerves to deal with their shit as well as mine
3:i'm a Transfag
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>>695780265
Why does anyone want children? Spend your time and money on yourself. Make yourself better. Why focus on children?
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>>695782770
Indeed! I prefer my own selfish endeavors over the prosperity of my fellow man, so why not act on those selfish instincts? No intention of being a martyr for the cause.
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>>695780265
Because we don't want to be miserable.
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>>695782814
Nah bro shut up he is living it up, who do you think you are to message him without being spoken to, peasant?
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Babies are cute, it's like having a pet.

Children are destructive, ungrateful, assholes that you need to tolerate every day for years.
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>>695783328
Jesus christ someone get me the violin.
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>>695780664
The millennials or the kids?
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>>695783094
I wouldn't really call it gloating. People just have different priorities. Tbh it is pretty dumb to try to "beat someone" on a chinese soup recipe board but that puts us on equal footing anyways
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>>695783622
It's a choice though if some has kids and cries about it, then yeah boo hoo get the violin seems appropriate. If you just abstain from it to save yourself the trouble who cares. I don't want to do something, I don't have to. It's not really complaining
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I would love to have kids of I could ensure their lives would be without suffering. Since I can't do that, I'm not going to force someone to live in less than desirable conditions.

Also, the chances of finding a woman who would share similar ideas with me, and who wouldn't try to rape me financially are slim to none, I'll spend my time trying to enjoy the short amount of time I have left. I know I won't, but I'll try
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>>695783622
Because despite working 50+ hours a week I barely have money left over for food, let alone savings or children.

The age of underemployment is upon us, I can barely support myself, how the hell would I afford children?

Also my shitty genes means my child would likely be stuck in a wheel chair, due to a blood mutation that happened to be mostly dormant for me (smaller blood cells than normal for my case, extremely small blood cells/count if full blown, chances are over 50% of passing it on with a partner that doesn't have it at all, 95%+ if they have it)
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>>695780265
We do. Im smaller amounts. I have only 1. If I get more I will be financially drained
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Better to not have kids than have kids irresponsibly. All these manchildren in poverty running around with kids is the epitome of degeneracy.
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>>695784027
Thats bullshit, in my view we all have an obligation and duty to continue the line of our people, its how our civilisation was able to progress in the first place. Being able to have children is a gift. God gave everyone the tools for reproduction and you choose not to use them because instead you would like to allocate more time for golfing or sleep in on weekends? That;s a piss weak excuse tbh. Maybe your perspective will change if you settle down with a woman you are actually in love with. Im seeing the decline of my race because of people like you, but hey I cant force you to do anything.
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>>695784405
Dont you get a baby bonus?
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>>695780265
lol have you met children?
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>>695784701
>we all have a duty

Good thing there's a lot more people in the world than there was thousands of years ago that can do that for me.
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I want a kid but not a wife
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>>695784701
>we all have a duty

What is overpopulation
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They're expensive.
They take up lots of time and energy I could use for other things.
What are the results of this investment?
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>>695784870
Yeah, muslim families who outbreed white families almost 3 to 1. combine that with mass immigration and you have white genocide. Who do you blame for this? People like you.
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>>695784576
No kidding. If you can't afford kids, don't have them. The majority of millenials truly can't afford them without leeching.
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>>695784922
Ill fuck your sister then give you the kid how about that
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>>695785098
Don't have a sister, the child must be from my loins
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>>695785042
I'm supposed to subject my offspring to poverty and war so I can feel satisfied that I reproduced?
If I can do something by accident, you're not allowed to be proud of doing it on purpose. Wear a condom.
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because everyone knows now that having kids fucking ruins marriages/relationships
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>>695784939
Blame the african and middle eastern part of the world. Their fertility rates are fucking insane.
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>>695784996
this
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Roll
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I'm a generation before millennials ( I think I don't fucking know all these weird goddamn generation names ) but I'd say overall its two things: Financial stability and security is harder to achieve, and most younger generations are still in school trying to improve their chances of doing so.

Plus such a large population of us grew up with divorced parents (I didn't, but a good portion of my friends did) a lot of us have reservations about getting married (not that we don't want to, just that it takes longer for us to trust the longevity of the relationship) and even when married, we have reservations about assuming that means we'll stay together, and if we DO have kids we want them to grow up in a stable household.

I think most millennials will have kids at a later age. I dont think most generations are any better or worse than another. Biologically speaking humans belong to the group of mammals that normally have small litters, long pregnancies, and take care of our young well past adolescence. So there isn't just a biological instinct to breed, there's instinct to take care of our young. And if we aren't sure we can do that, most humans will avoid having kids. Its not just common sense, its biologically ingrained. It's why women stop having their periods when starved or dehydrated, or in times of great stress.

I'm personally not having kids until I own my house and have AT LEAST my masters, if not phd and a career that's proved itself to be stable. But considering that'll be 7-8 years down the line being optimistic...
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>>695785307
And yet they don't impact the planet as much as children of the west. Hmmm. Might be something more to this, but don't try to figure it out. Wallow in your ignorance. Wallow.
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>>695785176
then get married you fuck
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>>695785042
Not my fault people are stupid and brainwashed
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>>695785415
Amen. Nothing like a generation that got divorced 60% of the time blaming millenials. If marriage was so great, mom and dad, why didn't yours last?
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>>695785232
Where do you live. If you have access to 4chan and a computer I doubt you are facing poverty and war. Stop being a little bitch for a change.
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>>695780265
You're the reason OP
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>>695785042
Average white guy here. Why do you give a shit if another race/ethnicity becomes the majority after you're dead?
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I feel this generation will end up being one of the worst.
A generation made entirely of selfish, mentally dysfunctional, inconsiderate, careless, close minded sheep following whatever retarded trend is going on social media, not even able to comprehend the simplest idea as responsibility.
Teenagers fucking and contracting diseases at an astounding rate to where most african americans will have some type of STD, and with the idea of "white inferiority" being spread in an attempt to rid white population, white people will end up unfortunately become a minority to a group of unstable and animalistic niggers.
We will all look so weak to other countries as a pc mentality to be and do whatever the fuck you want without thinking simply because you can, complimented with people being an overall inferior race surpassing a superior race in terms of numbers due to a population explosion, which forces more cities and towns to be built to hold these people.
Not enough jobs to support said people and now we'll be dealing with a China situation of overpopulation due to niggers not caring and eventually needing to kill children born for the sake of keeping the population down, we'll have decreased education to support costs for new places for these niggers to breed and live in.
White people will ultimately move to another country (most likely Canada or perhaps somewhere in Europe) due to being overwhelmed with niggers taking jobs, homes, children's education, doctors will surely be stuck dealing with niggerbabies and general health will plummet into the ground to where America will become a new Africa.
Mind you, this is what America will turn into on it's own. Say Russia or China decide to invade our country, our undereducated disease-ridden Ameriniggers will do what they do best: make babies and send them into wars, cause fuck responsibility.
America is doomed. I say we brace for impact once Generation Y become adults, because they're going to pave a path to the end.
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>>695785417
If I am so ignorant, please enlighten me then wise one, how is continuing your civilisation destructive to the planet? Having children does not correlate to global warming you fuckwit.
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>>695784701
>its how our """"civilisation"""" was able to progress

Do you usually sound this moronic when you talk irl as well, or you just try harder here
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>>695785747
Because I dont want my grand children and their children to become literally a minority in their own cities and nations where they fele outcasted and have no sense of 'home'. The difference is im not so self centred compared to the other people in this thread, I have a degree of consideration and care for my future people.
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>>695783056
Damn, that's true. I've honestly considered moving to someplace really rural just so I can raise my kids to be decent human beings that aren't fucked in the head by modern society. But then what? Weird farm kids? Shit man, what can you do.
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>>695780265
Can't afford that shit yo.
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It made sense to breed in the 20th century because a lot of fucking people died in wars. Now not so much, when your child just adds to an already overpopulated world and will just be a waste of resources playing video games and smoking weed in their rooms because of ease of life through technology and a different culture.

Not worth it. Let someone else breed the next Einstein.
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>>695781391
True fam. I'm one of the few who actually want a bunch of kids. Fuck my generation REEEEEEEEEE
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>>695785232
Yes, my $300 computer means that I must be wealthy. No, hey, man you go ahead and reproduce. Bring your kids up on this polluted hellhole. Get mad at them when they can't find jobs in an automated world. Watch them starve to death. You're rooting for the status quo.
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>>695785973
What I mean is that if our encestors were just as self centred and egotistical as the people of today, they would have also probably refused to have kids and the development of our society would have been inhibited. Its something called an opinion, I never said it was an objective face, its just what I think. Do you usually sound this edgy and self righteous when you talk irl as well? Or do you just try harder here
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>>695780767
Fuck your nuclear family
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>>695784701
I've been married for 4 years. I'm 29 and neither of us want them
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>>695784996
Someone to take care of you when you're old and alone.
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>>695786285
There are already enough jews influencing the world. Which probably explains your reluctance to have children you shilled boy.
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>>695786451
Fuck your decadence.
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>>695785774
Yeah let's start a theocratic government on your terms! Let's chase degeneracy where "degeneracy" is defined as a thing that YOU don't like. Nothing bad could come of that.
Oh sorry man. You had the word "niggerbabies" in your post. I was taking you seriously. Party on, dog.
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>>695786028
You assume that becoming a minority automatically means you / your offspring / your bloodline will be oppressed in some way. Do you have absolute proof that this is going to be the case?
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>>695786475
Probably because you let other people fuck your wife in front of you.
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>>695786451
Fuck you for being against the nuclear family.
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>>695780767
Many millennials have been raised into a culture where homosexuality is normalized
>where homosexuality is normalized
>normalized.

Exactly how insecure are you about your trap-fapping?
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>>695780265
Because most of them are under the age of 25?

Man you guys are faggots
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>>695785820
Literally how? Your children will waste vast amounts of resources every time your sorry ass takes them to Mickey D's for a burger. Feed, my sloppy children, my little embodiments of daddy's ego. Waste away vast resources so I can feel proud that I didn't apply birth control.
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>>695786477
Ever visit a nursing home? You die alone, spoiler alert. Your kids will be playing PokemonGo4 when you take your last breath.
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>>695785583
Yeah it's sad really. I think the divorces we grew up with hurt the population a lot more than people care to consider. I mean I don't blame anyone, it's just how the times change. They were a generation pressured into getting married, but free enough to get divorced. It's a sum of many things. The disappearance of the 'housewife' is genuinely a contributor to dropping birthrates, too. And I mean nowadays whatever gender can be a stay at home parent, you do you, but most households can't afford to have one parent stay at home with the kids. And it's not that its the first generation to know this, it's the first generation with access to so much birth control and the ability to CHOOSE not to have kids because of poor circumstances, rather than have kids and have to deal with circumstances regardless of how bad it is.
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>>695785774
Jesus Christ boy, you are very scared. Calm down son
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>>695786833
Are you oblivious to whats been happening in recent years? Open your eyes. There are hundreds of videos of white kids in Sweden getting bashed in their own neighbourhoods because they didn't 'fit in'. Women in Sweden are Dying their hair dark because blonde women are more of a target for migrants to rape. I implore you to visit London or Paris for a day and just look around you. The white identify has been ripped away thanks to progressive liberals/ Demographic statistics show that if current trends continue whites will be only 2 percent of the worlds population... But hey, who fucking cares am I right?
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>>695787176
Not if you raise them right.
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>>695786285
Speak truth. Your kids will likely grow up to be minimum wage hacks, if those jobs still exist in 10 years. We don't need more people. The wrong people are reproducing already.
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>>695780767
>le nuclear family
what the fuck is a nuclear family to you? and where do you live that it doesn't exist? you're fucking retarded.
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>>695781721
Don't forget to tip your Fedora on the way out fag.
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>>695781391
You don't have to have children to contribute to society. Also "in any meaningful way" is a bullshit qualifier
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>>695780265
I can tell you why I don't.
>expensive as shit just to deliver, not to mention raise
>women are batshit crazy and will get upset one night, take the kid, and demand half my paycheck every month for the next 18 years
>children are generally pieces of shit until around age 17, and that's if they haven't become defective in one way or another
>you're not allowed to discipline your children anymore
>I hate them
>I enjoy my financial and personal freedom
>the majority of women today are not wife or mother material
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>>695784701
>God gave everyone the tools for reproduction
Being religious in a time where so much knowledge is available to us. Oh how the faithful are retarded.
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ITT: mostly childless 20-somethings complaining about how the mostly childless something-teens ITT aren't over populating the world faster than they already are
Having child/children is difficult, costly, and most importantly an investment of time and responsibility. I would rather there be more kids running around with older parents and taught well rather than the TV-taught shit bags that normally permeate our stagnant population. Do we really want to fight China and India for largest population with the added award of shittiest populous?
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>>695787366
Oh, man. Hey, go visit a nursing home. I'm being completely honest in this cesspit. People are self-centered by nature. They're going to leave you to die or pretend to be interested in your story while they think about how to create an exit for themselves. Believe me now or experience it yourself in 60 years.
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>>695787261
Divorce rates have definitely changed the fabric of American culture, among many other factors. When half of all marriages end in divorce, and a good number of those people have kids, of course you get a generation that thinks marriage doesn't work.
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>>695787066
That response just convinced me that you lack the mental capacity to engage in this conversation. You know what, save your genetics, this world can do with less dumb fucks like you in it.
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There's a reason most of the people who go to space are white.
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>>695787620
I'm not saying that nobody gets abandoned, but it's not like you can see all the elderly people at home getting help from their kids.
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>>695786881
Good one
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>>695787598
YASS. Those people reproduced to watch their spawn die a slow death on the street. Pat yourselves on the backs, brethren. Your genes live on in the form of impoverished barely-alive drones.
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Hamburgers
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seems pointless and stressful and im saving up for a boat
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>>695780265
Cannot afford, yet.
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>>695787598
Additionally, may as well be an older parent so you can eventually force your kids to take you in in your frail state and steal back some of those years they dragged away from you
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>>695780767
>Being this retarded.
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Seems rude. What's so bad about non-existence that we have to yank something out of it? What's so great about existence that we have to put something in it that otherwise would have never suffered?
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>>695787803
All right, better yet, volunteer at one for a while. It will give you some perspective. Do you think the next generation will treat you well? You voted to continue ruining the planet. They'll visit you with gas masks on, resenting the clean air of your youth. They'll visit in a perfunctory way, take a selfie for their analog of facebook and get out when they can, leaving you to choke to death in your sleep some night. Don't believe me? Become a volunteer.
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>>695782724
The problem is you get a couple of weak whites in power and they choose to be "empathetic" and feel bad for others. Just look at Canada's federal government. We call it the Great Cuckening.
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>>695786166
You could just not have any kids.
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>>695783718
most of each group.
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Because I hate children
Because I'm only 22
Because I only make 24k a year
Because I would be a shitty parent
Because I'd rather not have a kid

There. 5 reasons. And if that makes me selfish, fine, I'm selfish. Fuck you.
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>>695780767
Bunch of libs butthurt over this lol
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>>695787359
so grow some fucking balls, especially your women, and learn how to handle yourself? fucking pussy nigger
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So we don't have to complain about "kids these days" when we get old, We want to be the last generation.
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>>695780265
they require commitment and having partner with a long term plan, like marriage.
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>>695780265
Because I'm lazy, irresponsible, irritable, and bad at managing money. Rather be no parent than a bad parent.
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>>695787686
Go for it, my quiverfull friend. Reproduce like wild! Don't bitch too hard when I take your promotion. Don't whine when your kids abandon you to focus on themselves. Have a lot of them! They'll all die too! Convince yourself that you're smarter than me because you have kids. In the meantime, I'll console myself with my facebook feed, watching generation after generation make more morons for the gene pool. Hint: We're getting more into the shallow end as we go. Bye! Hope your kids don't resent you too much! Ooops!
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>>695780265
I do, but women are against me reproducing so that's why I'm unable to.
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>>695780265
Selfishness and a political climate that doesn't look down upon polyamory.
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Kids suck ass. Id honestly be fine with getting married and all that but no kids. Just fuck shit up with my wife for years.
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>>695780265
Because having kids without a well paying career, no wife, or established life in general is literally nigger tier. And millenials aren't having any of those things.
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>>695782565
Exactly this
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>>695788768
This is pretty great. Do it.
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>>695787261
Knowledge is only potential power. I've seen a lot of friends get sucked into adulthood before realizing that it wasn't a path to happiness. Divorce is likely, and that can really hurt. Be careful out there. There are good people, but they are rare. Look for the helpers.
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>>695780265
You realise having children at this point is actually a bad thing, right? As though the world isn't overpopulated enough...
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>>695788439
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>>695788110
Exactly my thoughts. Glad someone could put it so succinctly.
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>>695782565
Well said, my mane
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>>695780265
Why would they?

Children are fucking retarded. Especially boys.

Oh yea, even though millennials themselves are retarded, they realize having and raising a child into this shithole world is a waste of time and effort. Not to mention near-certain worldwide apocalypse.

Morons think we're the only planet in the universe to support life, yet think nothing of destroying it.
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>>695788830
>smart* millennials aren't
Should I get the Star Trek TNG pajama set, or the Star Trek TNG track-jacket? I can't decide which, but whichever I *do* decide on, it'll be all mine because I don't have to feed another mouth.
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>>695788830
>
>muh career
fuck your career faggot. get a good stable job and hack at it. I've seen familys with 35k total have two kids. you can do it too, bitch.

>muh wife
I've seen single moms and single dads raise productive members of society. don't entrust your future to THE HAWTEST WOMYN, entrust your genes' future to the smartest woman. and stop buying into /pol9k/ memes.

>muh established life
you're right on this one though.
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>>695781391
By
>settle
you mean
>give up their personal and financial freedoms they've waited so long to have just so they can fit the social norm and expectation of mindlessly reproducing
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>>695783388
Kek'd and check'd
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Not sure why whites are so worried about becoming minorities. It's not like minorities have ever been mistreated or anything.
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>>695780800
/thread
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>>695789229
yes, slave away goyim! don't worry about enjoying life. work until your body literally breaks so that their lives will be better... but don't think about not having kids because then who would pay for the programs- i-i-i mean take care of your when you're old?
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>>695789241
if you have to give up any freedoms to have children, you're fucking retarded. at least, assuming you're a guy.

if you're a girl, your entire life purpose IS to raise kids. deal with it, sweetcheeks. feminism and womens' rights were a fucking mistake.

>>695789373
>it's ok when I do it meme again
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>>695789229
Yeah! And boy it's not like there are literally decades of evidence showing that raising kids on 35k fucks them up for life!
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>>695780979
While global communism takes hold...and we do nothing but party and want someone else (govnt) to blame and take care of us...
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>>695789540
>xD le jews guys xDDD
>>>/pol/

>enjoying life
hedonism is not enjoying life. enjoy life means APPRECIATE THAT SHIT.
>work til your body breaks
you're not working properly, retard.
>working so their lives will be better
damn it's as if you have no foresight, no sense of longevity! hahaha fucking retarded idiot.
>>
One; not sure why, but I was just thinking of how many welfare "mom's" are pumping out kids across the us right as this thread exists. Mom on the dole, dad on the dole or in prison, baby on the dole. How many times a day? Thousands?
Two; I think "some millennials" just don't want to age. Whats wrong with that? Maybe they're actually smart about this, unlike prior generations. I think when the smart one's (hopefully) get established, career, right partner, etc., some will responsibly have children. It may be a very low population growth though. Good.
>>
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>>695785415

>I think most millennials will have kids at a later age.

I don't think you understand biology. A population crash driven by student loan debt is coming.
>>
>>695789602
>I've mentioned Communism. I hope no one notices that I didn't use it correctly and have no idea what it means.
>>
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It's not my fault women dont find me attractive enough to have kids with. I wasn't born attractive, or with the money to over compensate.

pic related
>>
>>695780979
While global communism takes hold...and we do nothing but party and want someone else (govnt) to blame and take care of us...>>695781098
This is correct and I'm a spic with a Irish Italian wife who bore me a spic looking baby girl...hope she won't marry Arab or negroid... Was hoping for white babies but that's not so safe anymore. :/ all in the shit now.
>>
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>>695789566
I'm a guy, and one thing I've noticed invariably across the board, is that men ALWAYS have to give up their personal freedoms when it's time to be a father. They can't go hanging out with the guys any longer (not without the wife's permission), they can't play vidya until the sun comes up any longer (she and those children demand attention), and so on. Meanwhile, the woman doesn't have to change a thing about herself, or even work a decent job, because it's expected of the man to provide for her and whatever number of children she demanded they have. Oh sure, she can earn money too, but all of hers is going to car payments and savings; your money is what's being spent, just like your time, energy, and sanity over time.

But I guess misery loves company, hence why you're trying to shame us into mindless reproduction.
>>
>>695789566
Good luck reproducing with that attitude
>>
>>695787631
Yeah. That generation thinks marriages don't work because they have several generations who act as living, broken examples that they often don't.
>>
Not wanting to have kids is the only reason you need to justify not having kids..anyone who thinks millenials not having kids is going to lead to human extinction is inarguably a retard.
>>
>>695789734
I'm a hedonist by your definition, and I'm enjoying it pretty well. What do you say to that?
>>
>>695781760
This is exactly how I felt before my wife said she was pregnant..."Fuck!"

We kept the baby and all I can think of is how are we going to prepare her for the amount of stupid shit she's going to be facing.
>>
>b posts about millennials, if you are younger than 35 you are a millennial
>if not a millenial you are generation Z

You guys are fucking retards. Arguing about millennials when you are part of that demographic cohort, and if not millenials then generation Z since 4 chan is inundated with underage posters, especially here on b.
>>
>>695789566

Just thought about the two dykes going to the sperm bank. Or the two gays getting a surrogate. Good or bad, "traditional" families are not exclusive anymore.
>>
>>695789734
I appreciate the fact that I will die one day, hopefully soon so I won't have to deal with you people or the leftists anymore.

If you actually take time to look at who runs this show you call "life", the majority are infact people of the Jewish religion. Sorry you don't want to hear that. I am also sorry you are still holding onto the idea that life is worthwhile.

Also, do you think everyone can get a comfy office job where they sit on their asses for 8 hours a day? That is a mighty nice fantasy. Nope, some people actually have to use their bodies to get paid, and unfortunately, in this day and age where their is surplus population, you have to go the extra mile and put your body under stress to stand out and maybe, just maybe, get a promotion. After a few years of stress, the body will begin to break down.

Better is a relative term. What do you consider "better"? What is the end goal to having kids and keeping this pointless cycle going? I really want to know, because maybe I can convince myself and others I know that life has a meaning other than, "I exist because my parents were following their biological urges and didn't think about the future person who might come about".

Go on
>>
>>695789757
>student loan debt
why don't you retards get a fucking job while going to school? how stupid can you be? literally 30hrs a week at $8/hr will cut your loans in fucking half. you didn't fall for the GO OUT OF STATE meme, did you?

>>695789934
>can't hang with the bros anymore
what the fuck kind of clingy bitch did you marry bro?
>can't play vidya til the sun comes up
video games are for children...you should've dropped them at 15 no later.

>she and the children demand attention
yeah...you give them enough attention for a bit so they stop bothering you, but not a pint more. it's how you feed a dog, too. give it enough so it isn't hungry, not enough to make it fat.

>meanwhile the woman does all these things; lazy and/or selfish
what kinda harpy did you marry, bro?

Maybe you guys have married into retarded families. did you go for the 8-10/10 meme again? try marrying down to earth women instead of bitches who were showered with praise.

>>695789970
has already happened, one kid out and another on the way. manage your time wisely...kid...and you'll get to see the joys of bringing life into this world.
>>
>>695790133
Life isn't about pleasure and happiness all the time fucking faggot
>>
because the age we live in is a time to be alive, amiright?
>>
>>695790418
I know I'm a millenial. I still don't want kids. You're not saying anything we don't know, you're just offering a definition that is already in play. Congrats!
>>
>>695787359
Yes, I have been paying attention. You act like these sorts of things are new. You know what's actually new? Everyone in the world having a video camera on their phone. Look at crime statistics over the past 20 years in Sweden. Pretty much every category is more or less a flat line.

There's no use arguing with you if you're going to cherry-pick examples
>>
>>695781098
My people are already pretty much extinct. . Won't be long before there are no pure blood Native Americans left.
>>
>>695790490
>the majority are people of the Jewish religion
you're fucking retarded. Jewish race, not religion. regardless, it isn't THE JEWS you fucking idiot. so you can point out 200 or 300 people who, BY PURE COINCIDENCE OR NOT, are on the top. suddenly the entirety of the (((group))) they belong to is in this mass conspiracy to fuck people over? good god. you really do belong on >>>/pol/ , your wires have short circuited. fucking retard.

>>695790436
those """families""" won't last a second, guy.
>>
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>>695780265
Women are shit. Traditionalism is shit. Law just isn't on the side of the millennial male.

Women can go fucking reproduce all they like, go fucking nuts. I'm sure they can find willing (unknowingly willing) sperm donors to screw over. Having kids for women is a win win win situation.

A vast percentage of millennials saw their parents go through a divorce whilst they were growing up.

It isn't worth it anymore. Most millennials had a shitty upbringing. Smart millennials know they probably can't do any better.
>>
>>695790519
What is it about then, Mr. I know the Answer to Life's Biggest Question? Please, I would love to know the answer to something humans have pondered since they first started existing a long while ago.
>>
>>695790508
>I'm trying to angrily justify my life choices while avoiding learning about economics. Obviously I'm so happy with own life.
>ha-ha. ha-ha. I turned myself into a drone. Be like me. Justify my life choices.
>Joy into the world.
I'll believe you more when I meet fewer moms with ruined bodies and lives tying to desperately salvage what remains of their dreams.
>>
>>695789566
don't fall for it
don't fall for it
don't fall for it
don't fall for it
don't fall for it
>>
>>695790906
>Having a child is literally the most irresponsible thing you can possibly do

Anyone else feel like this?
>>
>>695790947
Eating and reproducing
>>
>>695780265
It would be nice for someone to carry my genes, and teach about the world. But why would I want to bring a kid into this world that celebrates degeneracy. What really makes me scared is that I have no %100 percent way of making sure they come out of the womb with all their vital organs fully functioning, no disfigurements, or mental problems, or lost limbs. Then I have to keep them from becoming gay, trans, or whatever mental disorder people are celebrating now. I just don't see how people would want to have kids with the world being so cruel as it is.
>>
>>695790508
>clingy bitch?
None; I'm 27, never been married, and I have no intention of ever BEING married. That's just how women are: women are like dogs (or more so cats), in that they require constant attention to feel 'loved' and shit.
>vidya games are for children
Are you fucking kidding me? Video games are art, and a wonderful past-time I can engage in whenever, however I want. If you don't like them, that's fine; you can go back to poking an old tire down a dirt road with a stick or whatever it is you do for enjoyment. No one's going to take vidya away from me; certainly not some bitch.
>children demand attention...so only give them just enough
but it's never enough, is it Anon? Especially when kids are at that age where they try to ask 1,000 questions per minute, and won't even retain the information 2 seconds later. Then when you want some me-time, they claim you're neglecting them, and start doing shit like biting the heads off stray cats.
>lazy/selfish women...you marry?
See above; that's just women's nature, and society socializes them to think this is acceptable behavior as adults.

To wrap up this post, fuck women, and fuck children (metaphorically). The most important thing to a man is his freedom, and allowing himself to get married is the state's way of taking it all away from him, even when he gets divorced. These women claim they can do so well without men anyway, so let them. Go MGTOW.
>>
>>695790674
>flat line
and this means what to the /pol/ posting retard who lives on fear rather than danger? absolutely nothing. they see one instance and they blow it up. stop replying to that retard you're just wasting energy. go pump a woman full of your seed.
>>
>>695790874
I love how you point at one point, a rather insignificant point (the fact that I named the Jew) and didn't respond to anything else.

I'm sure your kids will grow to be pure, rational Aryan children who progress the human race very far.
>>
>>695790508
>literally 30hrs a week at $8/hr will cut your loans in fucking half
>working 30 hours a week and doing 15-19 hours a week of school

How fucking retarded are you? Did you major in fucking business, or did you take the minimum 12 hours to be considered a full time student?
>>
>>695791059
I concur. Well, I feel it is the most immoral but whatever stops you from having them works for me
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>>695791082
Why reproduce though
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>>695790519
Ok dad
>>
>>695791123

Advancement in genetic testing/engineering. This will happen, and eventually eliminate defects.
>>
>>695790508

>why don't you retards get a fucking job while going to school?

If I could make $25K per year at a part time job, why would I go to college?

http://admissions.unc.edu/afford/cost-of-attendance/

Welcome to four decades of tuition hikes, old fart.
>>
>>695791154
Why are you falling so hard for this?
>>
>>695790956
Stop meeting shitty moms, kid.

>>695791154
Well I'm not going to push my point any further. You're a man. You do as you choose, and that's all I want. More men, not limp wristed fags. No need for justification.
>>
I don't want to be tied down by kids and some bitch ass wife.
Why the fuck would I do that lol.
I'm a union apprentice electrician, full time at $25.20 an hour and I'm 22, born in '93. Fuck having kids. I'm cool with a girlfriend and stuff but jesus, getting tied down with a wife just sounds absolutely horrible. I would rather do my own thing.
>>
>>695791341
>Immoral
>Irresponsible

Yeah, that works too.
>>
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>>695791418
For what?

>>695791451
Alright.
>>
>>695780265
18 y/o here. I'm a bisexual white male with fairly liberal values. I've been dating a 16 y/o mexican/white qt for about 9 months now and I absolutely want kids. 2 is the goal but I'd go up to 3 if I genuinely want to. I don't understand what it is to be a parent and I want to. It feels more like instinct than anything else. I'm just not a fucking nigger who's going to knock up a teenager and either bail or ruin my life. So I'm waiting until whoever I knock up and I are both out of college.
>>
>>695782506
>Well alright. I'll be busy having a meaningful career, great hobbies, an amazing sex life plus a lot of free time and money so enjoy your wiggles concert I guess

new parent here. I have no free time, no disposable income, and my sex life is gone because if my wife and I arent sick with whatever the spawn has brought home from daycare we are too damn tired to go even think of fucking. And I honestly don't give a shit, its completely worth it.

>>695789934
No you don't get to go drinking, or stay up all night fapping, YOU ARE A FUCKING PARENT NOW, your responsibility is that that kid and making sure they don't turn into an asshole or a stripper.>>695789934

>Oh sure, she can earn money too, but all of hers is going to car payments and savings; your money is what's being spent
You're fucking married you dumb cunt, its the household income. You share assets and debts. It doesn't matter who's money goes where, its all the same in the end. And if she's making car payments and putting money in savings that means you're not living paycheck to paycheck.
>>
>>695791396

Just in time for the environment to be so fucked that the defects multiply!
We'll mutate our own children to compensate for our consumer hedonism!
Great thread, guys. I'm getting a vasectomy so my kids don't grow up with your offspring.
>>
>>695787551
>>695788329
>>695789241
This. Why breed just because a few Trump supporters want you to?
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>>695780979
Yeah, like getting laid
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>>695791651
>YOU'RE A FUCKING PARENT NOW

I'm not :^)
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>>695787551
>>
>>695791451
>Shitty moms.
Wow. You're certainly the kind of person humanity needs more of.
>>
>>695791225
>>695790874
literally btfo
>>
>>695791901
kek
>>
hahahahahahaha this whole fucking thread.
Most cringe shit i've seen in a while.
>>
>>695791247
I assume you mean you're taking 15-19 credit hrs, which isn't hard at all. What are you, a pussy? Are you fucking retarded and failed a couple classes? Damn. Looks like you weren't cut out for university after all. You should invest in killing yourself instead. fucking idiot.

>>695791404
>25k/year
good god where the fuck
>north carolina
lord help you son. anywho, snide comments aside, here's a plan to massively help you out with costs.

>Expenses for school
tuition ($4.4k/semester)
books (should be less than $300/semester thanks to CHEGG)

>Expenses for rent
>find an apartment at $800 or so, get a roommate to cut down expenses to $400/mo or even less if you can stand not living next to niggers

food and other shit is miscellaneous, live on ramen and rice/beans
>>
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>>695791651
>YOU ARE A FUCKING PARENT NOW
Hah, see that? That right there. That, and everything that comes with that word; everything that encompasses it, I want no part in. But hey, even if I do my best to raise that kid right, they could still become degenerates just to spite me. Why?
>Because it's MY life and MY decisions! You never came to my Little League Games.
Or some other bullshit.

Yes, I'm aware of the IDEA of sharing the burden of household payments and shit, but I'll be the one (as a man) taking on most of the burden IN ADDITION TO my personal student loan repayments. Fuck that and whatever horse it came in on. If a bitch thinks she's going to cuck and shame me into paying for her lazy ass and that fucking kid, she can go live by her fucking self WITH that shit-stain on the sidewalk for all I care. Oh, but I can't do that, because then *I'm* the bad guy. Fuck that.
>>
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I want them, I grew up in a family of 7 kids over a range of different ages. I was the second oldest. I have always wanted children, unfortunately my girlfriend does not. Which kinda triggers me. But we have 11 fucking cats. Pic related it's our newest kitten.
>>
>>695791651
>I've visibly ruined my life. You should too. To admit anything else is to give in to that widening crevasse I used to call a soul.
>>
Because the idea of cleaning up shit, piss, and vomit spewed from a screaming potato sickens me.

And most women won't make good mothers.

But that is subject to change. I'm only 20, after all.
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>>695791976
>lol XD people don't agree w/ my opinion

>cringe :^D

>
>
>>
>>695791635

And make 75k a year minimum please.
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>>695792062
It doesn't change. Women might, but that's only when they hit the age of 30 and realize they no longer have that thin-mint high school body or desirability they had when they were riding the Cock-Carousel in college.
>>
I can't fucking trust myself, I'm too much of a goddamned idiot to not fuck something up to the point of killing a baby, as bad as i do want one.
>>
>>695780265
Because we already have enough stuff to deal with in our lives, that adding a small human into the mix just makes it more difficult. Not our fault the baby boomers fucked up the economy and everything else so much that we're forced to work shit jobs for shit pay.
>>
>>695791939
I know I am, thanks bro.

>>695791949
I wrecked that faggot hard, thanks.

>>695792051
>I ruined my life
Sucks to be you, Dad of one so far and another on the way, life hasn't been better.
>>
>>695792010

>Sorry for the birth defects, kids. Your daddy skimped on food when he was an adult. Yeah, he wanted to prove some morons on 4chan wrong. Anyway, eat your fast food, stupid kids. Daddy wants to advance at work so he can't skimp on groceries.

>What sense of impending doom?
>>
Why would I want them?

Why is wanting children considered the default? Shouldn't we have a better reason to bring a to bring a life into the world then "it is expected"?
>>
>>695792031
looks like a white version of my solid black cat Theon. My gf doesn't want them either but I'm referring to her as "mommy" when we play with him just to try and open her up to the idea. I think it's working because she's gone from absolutely not to hypotheticals.
>>
>>695781098
>your people

UH NUH MUH MELANUN
>>
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>>695792268
I wasn't sure before, but thank you for showing me the light
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>>695792254
felt the same way until I had one. the second it plops out its like instinct kicks in.
>>
>>695791722

huh. Less Alex Jones chief.
>>
>>695780265
Because some of us are self-aware about how badly some people can fuck up when it comes to parenting.

Some of us know we know fuck-all about not fucking up our kids.

Some of us are probably just self-absorbed narcissistic twats.

Some of us are actually autistic.

Some of us can't have children.

Some of us just decide to be gay or some shit.

But some of us Generation Y faggots, like me, do want children. Some of us would very much like to be parents. Some of us are far from being completely retarded, notwithstanding the tried-and-true nature of being flesh and blood- giving into the hedonistic pleasures of taking the bait, screaming to scream, or stroking ourselves in stride.
>we just don't want to have children with horrible excuses for people
>but that's always been the case since time immemorial

>>695788591
So... do you just expect your seed to serve you until you die? Do they not have names? Are they... an extension of your body? Why aren't you serving your parents like a good peasant boy? Why wouldn't that anon's kids be allowed to engage in autonomy or seek whatever niche function they can find in (current year)?

Every generation has shit in it. Yet, there will always exist diamonds in the rough- there will always be a kernel of corn in every shit. You, if not I as well, are mostly insignificant when trying to compare ourselves to "the grand scheme of things". And quite frankly, with the way things are going, genetics seem to play less and less of a role in the genuine capacitance for learning and understanding.

It just takes someone who has had the proper predisposition, in this train wreck of a place, to even know where to think to begin when considering how to educate those who come after them. Not just blood. You're less smart than the combined capacitance of your Facebook feed, and it's of no fault of your own.

Blame your parents.
>>
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>>695792010
>I assume you mean you're taking 15-19 credit hrs, which isn't hard at all. What are you, a pussy? Are you fucking retarded and failed a couple classes? Damn. Looks like you weren't cut out for university after all. You should invest in killing yourself instead. fucking idiot.
>>
>>695792292
>hey kid, I gave you a birth defect because I didn't know how to properly plan for food and took "live on ramen/rice beans" literally!
>why are you looking at me like I'm an R word?

hahaha lmfao
>>
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>>695792010

A better plan would be free college in Germany. But then, that helps the German population, not the American one. We're fucked. Student loans will destroy the nation. The only one who sees it is Bernie and he's gone.
>>
>>695792365
That's funny I've been trying the exact same thing and have been getting the same results.
>>
>>695791949
care to explain?
>>
Nothing more hilarious than regretful parents trying to justify their shitty choice to have kids
>>
>>695792527
kek

it's true though
>>
>>695787551

You are precisely the type of person who should not have kids. Good for you.
>>
>>695792527
>>695792629
>
>>
>>695792398
>>695792477
>everything I don't like is bait
retards btfo once again. come back with a retort or stay in the garbage bin, losers.
>>
>>695792225

I've been on the fence, really. Between 2 kids and no kids.

Lots of bad experiences with women, so I'm probably gonna go knock up a FtM tranny and hang myself once I see the the baby bump.
>>
>>695792520
Well, this faggot >>695790874 never refuted or challenged any of >>695790490 this anons points

that's it, essentially
>>
tbh I'm too busy huffing glue

Yall some dumb niggers if you think having kids is not selfish.

lol, amateur hour over here. I know at least one dumb nigger on here isn't trollin about "contributing to society" and actually believes that shit.

hahahaha
welcome to the free world you dumb niggers.

Go ahead and have some kids, you and the niggers, and spicks, and whoever. Have fun nigga. I'll fuck your wife after the divorce but I sure as hell won't cuff her.
>>
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>>695792665
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Kc6wB7URo
>>
>>695792516
so we can conclude that this hypothesis is now theory? that's 2 separate experiments with matching conclusions.
>>
>>695792733
Best post of all time
>>
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>>695792733
>>
>>695792401
Anger issues as well, i isolate myself 99% of the time, i don't think a baby would help much, as I'd probably end up bashing its head in when it stars crying like in OPs pic. Look man, my genes and my suffering dont need to be passed on, im better off just dying without leaving a Mark.
>>
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they have the same issues 80's and 90's kids have

>baaaw muh childhood nostalgia
>baaaw muh childood pop culture
>baaaw i don't wanna grow up


the only people who have kids now got knocked up in highschool lmao
>>
forcing life onto something that couldn't consent is wrong if you have to ability to prevent it. Humans should work towards letting our species die out. Reproducing on purpose is selfish and immoral.
>>
>>695792504
>free college
freedom isn't free, kiddo. are you fucking stupid? who is going to pay for the staff? the chemicals in lab? the certs for the building and the prerequsite safety checks? who is going to pay the police? it isn't free. taxes would shoot way the hell up. what we need isn't """free""" college. we need smart people. smart people go into little to no debt. but all of y'all going into this 25k debt like Mr.NC up there need to stop. get a fucking job. take fewer hours if you have to. you might graduate later, but who the hell cares? you see many people in your classes. they aren't 18. they're 23, 24, some even 30+ taking freshman level courses. they don't give a goddamn.
>>
>>695792680
Or the sound of a crying child that you could have prevented. That sound will follow you through life and everything bad that happens to that child will be directly your fault. That's that sound I don't want to hear
>>
>>695792264

>Not our fault the baby boomers fucked up the economy

The economy with the stock market at an all time high?
>>
>>695792430
Oh, I despise Alex Jones. I'm just able to read about the destruction of our planet. Have you seen the numbers? Checked on the Great Barrier Reef, that base of our food chain, lately? Shit looks dire.
>>
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>>695792963
Y-yeah....
>>
>>695792932
Tru tru
you get it
>>
>>695780767
Only overpopulated by niggers
>>
>>695792907
Millenials are 80's and 90's kids dummy
>>
>>695782038

Jewfag here.

If whites were smart, they would understand the need to manage their demographics and the necessity of reproduction to do so.

But whites are not smart, they only make good slaves, because they always do just what their told.
>>
>>695793115
y-you too...
>>
>>695786303
Same here anon, it confounds me as to why our generation is filled with people who act like children up until their 30's. I myself want kids so I can teach them how to be civilised people rather than the retards of today.
>>
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>>695792932
>MFW raping unborn children by forcing life
>>
>>695792950

>who is going to pay

Can you read? Germany. Moron. They accept Americans. They even teach courses in English.
>>
>>695793115
Probably b8, but on the off chance it's true. How can I apply to be a part of the Jewish Kabal that rules the world? I think I would make a great addition to the team
>>
>>695793115
I'm a black guy who sleeps with a Jewish woman regularly.
>>
>>695780265
Because a.) they are a fuckton of work for decades, b.) they might end up being ungrateful bitches, c.) getting a dog is much easier and has a better work/awesomeness ratio and d.) no sane woman would ever have a child with me
>>
>>695792475
Did you reply to my post about how your own kids WON'T be serving you? Because if you did, you reiterated my point while insulting me. Neat trick.
Yes, I'm sure your kids will be the diamonds. Little Aiden and Cryssandra won't be massive, living disappointments.

Looks like your vocabulary got away from you toward the end. Don't worry about it. I know what you meant to say, even if you don't.
>>
>>695793291
Germany doesn't accept Americans dumb fuck. also enjoy getting raped by economic immigrants on the way to Deutschland. you don't know shit about Germany, don't talk about it.
>>
>>695793285
prove him wrong. They can't consent, can they?
>>
>>695791373
Because it's literally the only reason any life exists. To be produced and then to reproduce. Don't like it? Fine. but you're wrong.
>>
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>>695793324

90% sure that is Roflwaffle.
>>
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i don't know what kind of girls y'all are hanging around...oh right i forgot. but anyways, i rarely ever meet girls who don't want to have kids.

y'all been reading too much and talking to too many fellow neckbeards who also haven't touched a boob.
>>
>>695793324
the nose knows...
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>>695780265
Born in 1991. I simply dont want kids. I dont see the issue.
>>
Le wrong generation: The thread
>>
>>695793488
Who says life SHOULD exist, eh? Or NEEDS to exist?
>>
>>695793560
one of my favorite memes
>>
>>695780265
>>695780265
Because children take effort and millenials are lazy, self-entitled fucks.
>>
>>695793115
You realize the Jewish birthrate is just as low, and their rates of interracial and inter faith marriages are even higher than gentiles, right?
>>
>>695793324

So your kid will be good with the money he steals?
>>
Why would i want to bring children into this shithole of a planet? I'm not that sadistic.
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>>695793752
>>
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> Because they are weak.
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>>695793860
THis
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>>695783247
Next time skip to 3 keep it short please
>>
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>>695793830
I dunno, I'm not going to be there.
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>>695793752
Oh man you burned me
>>
>>695792783
I believe we can, I wish you luck on your journey friend
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>>695793863
>excuses; the post
>>
because this planet is fucked
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>>695792484
You didn't write what you meant? Why didn't you write what you meant?
Were you only pretending to be retarded? Do you fall back on that excuse a lot?
>>
>>695793752
They do take effort. When I put effort into something I like to get something out of it. I do not see the benefits of having children
>>
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>>695793988
Hah, you got nothin.
>>
>>695780265
>Why don't millenials want children?

They serve no purpose besides vanity, and when you create life YOU are responsible for every bit of suffering that life experiences because it would not exist to suffer otherwise.

You make life, therefore you make suffering and death. The only question is what sort of suffering and what sort of death. Neither can be prevented.
>>
>>695780265

there is only a finite time to experience reality, why waste it on something because they share genes with you? its like letting the meaning of your life be because you have cousins- kind of absurd if you apply that rule to other relatives. there are better uses of little more than a half dozen decades
>>
>>695781199
Such nonsense.
If I was never born, I wouldn't be around or have the capacity suffer from it.
>>
Maybe if the generations before them didn't make life so fucking pointless, they would be less inclined to think negatively of life and be more prone to considering having children
>>
>>695793479
I don't understand why you're still so confrontational. It's the chan, right?

It's got to be this place.

Look. I don't care what your point was in your post- it was fairly stupid by most of the merits I can throw at it. It was myopic. I wouldn't have been able to throw up more hyperbole if I actually bothered to try harder.

I don't care if you believe that the vocabulary has much to do with anything besides the syntactical, contextual, or implicit nature of the post. I'm not forebidden to use words like "and" or "but" or "less-good"

And maybe I need to make it more clear, more salient and explict, that when I use the words "diamond", I don't literally mean a gemstone. I don't mean the ultimate concept of "perfection", because I believe that's impossible.

But my children, should they exist, will be damned if they drink bleach for any other reason than suicide.

>I know what you meant to say
No. You just know what you believe to think what I said. It's not reasonable to suggest that you know what I meant to say, if you aren't already taking what I shit-post/post at face value, with no attempts to read deep.
>>
>>695792950
>Learning costs money because I can't conceive of learning in any other environment than the one I went to!
>School mascot forever!
>>
>>695782038
thats retarded, smart people know they need to leave as many genetic copies of them selves as possible thats evolution. May as well say smart people an hero
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>>695794121
the phrase "ramen and rice/beans" means eat cheap you fucking retard. skimp where you can. all people who start from ground zero have to build themselves up, but it isn't done by reaching into The Void™. some people go hungry, some people don't. grow the fuck up retard. you MIGHT get out of your debt. fucking idiot lmfao, getting into debt? how fucking pathetic do you have to be
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