Is /b/ in or out?
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Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Is /b/ in or out?
>>685024076
OUT
>>685024076
I guess we're mostly OUT
Maybe because 'in' is the friendly sjw campaign
In is the lazy option, fucking politicians cant be arsed to get their finger out and do anything
>>685024076
Out
>>685024076
I'm out, I just want a change, maybe even a war, just something interesting
>>685024076
in, it's the best option. people who vote out or say theyre voting out are either uneducated morons or trolls.
Out is the only option that makes sense.
>>685025315
Says the uneducated moronic troll.
>>685025170
Stability is good, boring is good.
>>685024076
In but scaled back to confederation without shitty Euro. You can't have Euro without United States of Europe.
>>685025315
>people who disagree with me are stooopid xD
Kys
>>685025315
>everybody who disagrees with me is dumb
ok
>>685025679
Being in the eu is by no means stable especially since we will have to adopt the euro
>>685025679
So the former east german dictatorship was good for the most part?
>>685025898
The Euro has NO purpose other than forcing nation-states to get dissolved in an eventual United States of Europe. The Euro cannot be stable in the long run without it, its makers are very aware of it. Bastards.
>itsatrap.jpg
>>685024076
>Britain strong
>Britain sustain itself on its own
>Britain leave EU
>Britain just entered third consecutive recession and needs financial help
>economy shitting itself
>next level unemployment
Not sure if making trade harder will help, but I'm no politician.
>>685025898
>>685026169
Britain has never and will never adopt the euro tho, in that regard it maintains a special status doesn't it?
My country adopted it and goddamn it wrought havoc.
>>685026892
'Hey I'll just ignore literally every reason people want to leave the EU'
Also I don't think our employment is that bad compared to most of Europe tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0&index=1&list=LLRQ48xmre8Vl6u1BamzkscA
>>685026169
> sharing resources with 28 states
> having stability
> being one of the world's top economy
> believing that separated states on their own can compete with the US, Russia, India and China
Pretty sure people here are convinced their nations are the greatest and that the key to success is by going back to borders, own currency and not having french and UK nuclear heads to defend you. Lol. There is no army in Europe except these 2. Maybe Poland. Soooo .......
EU is the best way to survive in this world, not seing it = being blind or living in the past
>>685024076
OUT , cut off the cancer that is the EU
>>685024076
Law student. Is good. works. Only dumb as fuck poor englishmen that have no clue want out. UK recieves almost 20% more than it puts in. Wont stay to argue. There are literally no arguments in favour of leaving
>>685027542
'being in the EU magically makes our economy better and bigger and more like stable somehow and stuff lmao'
>>685024076
Nah fuck that shit, Norfag here
>>685026892
We wouldn't be in recession if it wernt for the £55mil a day to stay in the eu, without this cost we wouldn't be in a recession and if we leave we can use this money to get out of our recession...
>>685027651
We loved your post
>r8 graph nigger
>>685027651
There are plenty euro cuck
>>685024076
In. Out is reactionary nonsense. Every argument the leave side has is simple fearmongering or a lack of understanding of the topic at hand, all leaving will get us is a larger divide between the rich and poor, and the loss of the EU's standards and laws on commerce will dip us into shit-eating bottom-feeder tier food like the US.
>>685027746
Never heard about economies of scale, European Investment Bank, European nuclear program, have you ? Airbus, direct competitor to US Boeing ?
EU represents a third or half the world's trades. Yes, having a strong EU is important.
> Magically
> forgetting about the 60 years of treaties, Schengen, ECB, Euro creation ...
Nothing magical, just economy.
>>685028397
No it doesnt its a micro economy , its growth is the lowest of many smaller countries, the EU is a failure for democracy and the economy
>>685028001
>>"look ma, I clipped sensationalist, reactionary nonsense from The Sun"
>>"That's a good Goy"
>>685027324
Cut your losses is what I say, the immediate problems from leaving have a very very high risk of putting the country in a coma.
Hate to say it because I love the history of GB but its no longer the country that put out literally half the useful inventions of the world. Precisely because of this its a bad idea to go out broken.
>>685027886
Except that won't go into getting out of the recession, it will go towards trying to sell anything at all. Somehow other countries pay up and don't cry about it because they can balance their books and make good use of the EU on top of that.
>>685028296
Its not reactionary there is a lot of supporting evidence , just look at switzerlands economy
>>685028397
Sounds like a lot of crony capitalist shit tbh. Which we pay a lot too much money for.
Why wouldn't we be better of lowering the broad tax rate?
>>685028296
Without the EU people would buy shit food because they're just that stupid
>>685028874
>Jews want us to leave the EU
I somewhat doubt it
>it's nonsense because I say it is
Not an argument
>>685028997
Being in the EU we pay more for food, just google butter mountains and EU food rotting to see why
>>685029197
Yup and tariffs
>>685028886
They pay up and don't cry because
A. They pay less than us(other than Germany)
B. They get more out than they put in
The inability to change a government elected in by the EU, a higher possibility of TTIP being introduced, open door migration and the potential of millions of pings a day to be pumped into much needed services, hell yeah vote out, as a UK citizen do I want to not have the ability to vote out my government if they are doing a shit job, no of course not. The EU is nothing more than a group of lads going out, you have the lads who work for a living and earn decent incomes and snot nosed NEET's who borrow there hard earned cash get pissed and never pay back. The EU is a joke, it always was and always will be, we need NATO we don't need the EU
>>685029315
Exactly the cost of living would go down being out of the EU, the only people not interested in this are crony capitalists
In, don't want us to be shafted in trade deals.
>>685028997
Europe has been constructed on the idea that economy should come first, and then political integration automatically. It worked perfectly at first.
But because of De Gaulle and then the UK with Tatcher, politics are now pushing the brakes to political integration, and all accusing Europe in their respective homelands of sucking dry their money.
> (while EU is actually funding research, care, SME ...)
Of course, such populism leads to a weaker Union, like the threat of a Brexit or the idea that EU is responsible for the "swarm of migrants", while actually it is because politicians have always said no to European Army, strong Frontex and played the ostrich.
Europe is good, it makes us strong against the rest of the world.
> Future is regionalism and federations not countries
the real problem is national politicians who refuse to let go some of their power and play the populist game. Which is highly dangerous. Nationalism is fucked up, 2000 years of Europe to prove it.
>>685029780
We wont be look at switzerlands trade record
>>685029780
South Korea and Taiwan have higher GDP than Europe , ask yourself why
>>685029361
The UK gets more out than they put in. Just because the EU doesn't refund your 55mil in cold hard cash doesn't mean you're not getting subsidies, grants, research financing or good trade.
That's how it works for all countries, then UK is not some special snowflake that should get preferential treatment because they stamp their feet.
Learn to tap into more resources if you wanna complain so much, there's a fuckton
>>685024076
OUT!!!
>>685030081
Oh yeah like all those failed green projects, I never had a vote on that, we get far less back thats already been proven
>>685030013
Because they don't sell off their prized companies and/or fuck them over till they fold
>samsung
>cadbury/Rolls Royce
You tell me where the money goes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abEa3-rx6MQ
>>685029804
The problem is each individual country controls its money and state less when you have a bigger country like that. And they won't all want the same things.
People feel a lot safer with local politics where everybody knows each other and can be voted out more easily.
Also people don't see why their money should go to someone they aren't going to meet. At least if taxes are improving your own country that's something
>>685030081
>more money out than in
Citation definitely needed.
Most of Europe is poorer than we are, who the fuck is paying for this shit?
>>685030081
this guy gets it, ty m8.
All of the out people are thinking t+1
The in ones are thinking t+2 and 3.
But hey, better try to sabotage a peace and economical project than trying to fix your own politicians/society right.
> UK's prime minister having an account in Panama
> Still in functions
>>685030081
Good trade my arse, the EU has the worst trade record in history, only has trade deals with 2 countries, you are under researched
>>685026892
Leaving won't make trade harder cos we trade with the EU under WTO rules. If we go further and make a Canada style trade deal 98% of goods and 96% of services will be tariff free.
>>685030470
Person takes legal action to reduce his tax burden and keep more of the money he earns
>HEY THIS GUY ISN'T ENOUGH OF A CUCK, STEP DOWN
weak bantz corbyn
>>685030081
Oh yeah those subsided steel factories and fishing ports, oh and that subsidised art gallery , i almost forgot the benefit there
>>685025596
Why should we leave them anon?
>>685030762
Damn right and cheaper, we may take a small hit to begin with but our economy would rapidly recover
>>685024076
Faggggoooottt.... OUT
>>685030432
> "Also people don't see why their money should go to someone they aren't going to meet."
Do you know where the money you have in the bank is going ? Do you know where the money of your Apple/Groceries store/car is going ? Nope.
What makes you different than a german, french, Italian ? Don't they need a good healthcare progam too if you are planning to visit them or even work, without a visa ? Funding the SMEs that are exchanging with your country isn't it important ?
And you say it as if it was a one-way thing: giving without receiving. It is just the same, but bigger : a common budget, for bigger projects.
> they aren't going to meet
I could also oppose you that your taxes are going to people you are never going to meet in your country, so why not in a bigger one :-)
> They won't all want the same things
True, but they are all interdependents, with or without the UE. The UE is a way to bring everybody at the same table, while without it, it would certainly be with economical sanctions or weapons.
It is slow, it is still under construction, but it really is a good thing.
> At least if taxes are improving your own country that's something
Again: bigger budget, bigger improvements.
>>685030284
>already been proven
>Good goy don't read about any funding
>>685030385
>most of europe is poorer than UK
>still can afford to pay in for EU membership
>they aren't in constant recession
>if they are they'll be bailed
>UK doesn't want help
>UK will pay for buffet then leave without eating a thing
Lol.
>>685030543
You pay less to buy shit from mainland Europe do you not understand how a basic discount at a supermarket works.
>>685030918
Probably should ask for funding for real projects then. That's a national problem when a country prioritises spending poorly.
>>685024076
In.
Knowing the very rudiments of EU law and how the EU operates allows you to spot the bullshit peddled by Farage & Co. a whole lot easier. They tell straight up lies and half the shit people complain about here and on /pol/ is either wholly fictitious or blown ridiculously out of proportion.
>>685031472
Thats the point we produced more when we were out of the EU, just look post WW2 , so the money was going back into the UK, now our money goes to failing economies so we see less benefit, how many bailouts has greece had...
>>685030858
Like if being PM or son of rich people wasn't enough as a privilege.
"keep more of the money he earns", right, because he was certainly reaaaally poor and in the need without it.
> greed is why the world's fucked
Millionaires are still going to be millionnaires. Rich are still going to be rich. Even with a bit less. "Tax burden" my ass. Reducing it for SMEs yes, but for individual, it is absolutely pointless, just a way to maintain feodalism.
>>685031472
I guess people figure the more local the better
I just don't think people of the UK are in favour of globalism.
Local politics is better
>bigger budget, bigger improvements
How come?
I'm sure there's an effect that local budget = money spent better and more easily overseen.
Be specific
>>685030081
>The UK gets more out than they put in
44% of UK trade is with the EU and that's declining by up to 1% per year. That means 56% of our trade is with the rest of the world and growing.
By being stuck in the EU we can't sign trade agreements with the countries that actually have growing economies.
So while Iceland with a pop. of 314,000 signs a trade agreement with China, the UK of 65 million isn't allowed to do the same, and has to make do trading with a dying Eurozone.
Great, wonderful. What wonders the EU gives us
>>685031640
I pay less buying from china, why do i have to buy from europe
>>685031918
It's not greedy to want to keep the money you earn Anon
>>685032284
The whole point is we dont need trade agreements to trade
>>685032284
>So while Iceland with a pop. of 314,000 signs a trade agreement with China, the UK of 65 million isn't allowed to do the same, and has to make do trading with a dying Eurozone.
You think Iceland with a population of 314,000 will get to trade with China or the US on as favourable terms as the EU with a market of ~500,000,000 under its purview?
Same goes for the the United Kingdom's 63,000,000 versus the EU-27's 437,000,000 - i.e. severely reduced leverage at the negotiation table. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
>>685032632
Very true, but they do help if you can get them signed.
>>685025315
Care to educate the other side?
>>685032689
Iceland trades on the favourable terms it needs. That's enough. The UK can do the same.
>>685032738
Most certainly, the EU hasnt even got one with China or a lot of Asian countries for that matter, but we still trade heavily with them
>>685032284
>trade declining
Selling valuable assets to the country to foreigners as one offs (like good companies) do not count as increasing trade with the rest of the world.
You're digging a hole if anything. About two decades ago you'd have been fine.
>>685032439
I do too. You're not being forced. It makes logical sense to buy certain things from countries in close proximity to you. Are you going to buy you're oranges from China?
>>685032689
But trade is mutually advantageous
I don't what the whole deal is
>fucking politicians
UK used to be Great , I remember before the EU when we had goods that lasted, local grocers and butchers served only UK produce , Im out because id rather support the local economy rather than fat cat pockets
>>685031833
That is not true. Look at agricultural secrtor for example, before and after, thanks to the CAP ...
Greece can not leave for numerous reasons : it is the origin of the democracy, of the Europe. Europe is the name of a greek goddess if I'm not wrong.
They cannot leave because it would be a weak message sent to the international investors. They have had corruption, bad politics for decades, dictators until recently, but UE is saying "ok, against strong efforts, we are going to set you up, as one of our own". As they would do for any country. That is the point of UE : solidarity.
This is why there is an emergency fund of billions euros to prevent it to happen again. Learning from mistakes. That could happend anywhere, even in the UK.
See UE as a safety, like for the sovereign debt crisis when ECB started buying national bonds to save countries.
And in the case of monetary sovereignty, it is that same sovereignty that caused crisis such as in the 1970's. Because everybody wanted a strong money, because Bretton Wood wasn't working anymore, they tried different stuff to figure out how to avoid constant devaluations: they took implicitely deutschmark as a reference.
Soooo... Today it would be the same, taking they money of the stronger economy as a scale, with the risk of devaluation, less purchasing power, less jobs, more unemployment, less taxes, less budget, more debt, downgrade from rating agencies, less investors & higher rates, less budget, more unemployment...
> tl;dr EU make us strong, national sovereignty is irrelevant, think about solidarity in 2 ways, not only one. You give, one day you benefit.
>>685032930
Iceland's needs did not decide the terms of that trade deal. China's needs did.
It will be the same if there ever were a China-UK trade deal. Not only would you be at the back of the queue given the UK's small size and status as a declining middle power (as evidenced by Barack Obama's statements re a post-Brexit US-UK trade deal), but you would also be at the mercy of the CPC's whims.
By all means shit the bed and #VoteLeave, but be under no illusions about being a petty vassal of whatever world superpower happens to takes pity on you and toss you a bone.
>>685033383
>all trade deals are identical
>all negotiating sides are equal in power and leverage
>>685027651
Being a "law student" does not give your opinion any extra credibility.
I was around when we voted to join the Common Market, the current state and future direction of the EU is not what we voted for.
>>685033355
But the point is a lot of goods are cheaper outside the EU , oranges also come from california too, buying inside the EU costs 10% more per head rather than sourcing it if we were outside the EU, the tarriffs push up the cost of living
>>685031941
I totally agree on that : the more local, the better. But we are in a globalized, interdependent world.
So we need both: global solution and local solutions.
In between we have states, which are not relevant anymore, but fighting until death and try to screw everything to prove themselves still relevant.
Bigger budget, bigger improvements, because not every countries have the same needs at the same time. Like a bank. While you don't use your money, a bank invests. Same for the UE. And economies of scale at the same time.
A local budget cannot cover expenses like bulding roads or a nuclear power plant. UE budget can. 100 times if needed. But all of the countries or regional/local governement don't need such thing at the same time. So you can globally implement solution, have a global vision, a global forecast of the needs and answer it, locally, better.
>>685025170
/pol/ the post.
>>685033574
The farmers without the EU wrapper would be far better off with less imposed imports from the EU and also be free to export far greater
You cant site Greece as the source of Democracy as a reason not to leave thats anti democratic
>>685033843
This is the same argument as 'pay a gazillion dollars in taxes every year because one day politicians will save you with welfare'
Even though a large portion of the money is wasted on bureaucrats, fraud and waste.
>also safety nets create a moral hazard
Tbh I'd rather we got our money back and ran a healthy surplus
>>685027651
This.
B but, muh grandparents fighting zee Germans.
>>685034485
Local economy is where its at, the good folk of the UK need to start thriving instead of being burdened so heavily with the failing EU
>>685034282
But surely private business should be the one to build nuclear power plants? Soviet Union didn't work
Also private business can build roads maybe, and if not, I'm sure local governments can afford that.
There might be economies of scale available in the military but very few states would be willing to engage in that sort of thing
>>685033982
In all honesty, I see your point to a good degree, complete freedom is better but I argue it should not be attempted while weak.
Having seen both sides (I now live in the UK) I can tell you that the cost of leaving here is considerably higher than any other place I have lived or visited, which is mainly Europe.
Of particular note is services. Any labour or any service provided is extortionate by comparison. The cost of physical items is high too, but it pales to services which I can't trace how or why. Other EU countries don't suffer like this, you have got to question what they're doing better at this point.
>>685033961
>Being a "law student" does not give your opinion any extra credibility.
Not him, but it absolutely does. Studying law pretty much anywhere in the EU means you have to have a good understanding of EU law works - which I'd conservatively estimate 100% of kippers lack.
>>685034485
What the ever loving fuck are you talking about. Nobody mentioned welfare, we were talking about trade. The EU would have a higher priority and more leverage in trade negotiations than an isolated UK in terms of both GDP and population. That's an incontrovertible fact, whether you like it or not.
>>685024076
Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
>>685035570
Watch this fucking video cunts
>>685035229
It's probably to do with wages being lower in those countries. When labour is relatively scarce wages rise together with prices
>>685035235
Replied to the long person I think
>>685036127
No worries.
>>685035205
It is already the case. Companies are building roads and everything, but are under the laws and surveillance of states, which is highly needed to avoid abuses. Such as overpricing, since we, as taxpayers, are paying for it.
So, not Soviet at all, just see UE and local governments as customers and police. As if you were building a house and checking for the works to be done correctly. Same.
Local governments absolutely cannot, if you define it as the scale of a cityhall or a department. Even regions. Regions are funded by states and the UE, and then they dispatch the money into projects. It is, in my opinion, the future.
UE as a law maker and budget police, regions as local governments and dispatching the budget toward projets, hospital, companies, welfare...
And with a European army. We already have NATO, each state has its army, so EU will too. They are currently trying to bring the topic back to fix the migrants/terrorism matter.