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My girlfriend is going vegan and I was wondering...
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My girlfriend is going vegan and I was wondering if anyone here had some good counter arguments on why going vegan is a bad idea.
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veganism is good for your health,good for the planet, and good for the animals. theres no counterargument you faggot
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They also have super powers
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>>683909469
virgin
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As an adult there isn't much too say. But it is considered child abuse if forcing vegan diet on children, especially really young ones.
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It's probably better to slowly transition to being a vegan because its really tough to just become one real quick. Many revert back after sometime.

Make sure you check chronometer for all your nutrient needs, and make sure you eat a lot of protein.

Otherwise, going vegan is great. Just try not to become a preachy douche.
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>>683909257
as long as she doesnt become a little bitch about it, it's totally fine
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Dont bother arguing, once shes in the cult she's gonna be sucking some dreadlock headed faggots patchouli-smelling unwashed dick because he totally gets her (need to be a special snowflake with an insanely inflated ego based only on the food you eat).

Run while you can.
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there are none lmao. now its your turn to go vegan
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>>683909257
Since of Mericans of living of an exigency/emergency of a technology so I am of communication of spiel of technology of text of:_"-------\_
Three/3 communications/explanations/informations/texts of a technology:
1/One: body muscle movement caused/since of energies at human caused/since of energies sent from machines far of miles/kilometers;
and/or/an-other-communication of 2/Two: human of technology of machines...machines transmit/send energy...energy at/striked/hitting metals in human...metals moved/arranged...so/causing/thus...electricity of in of body so...body muscle flexing of human of living of tensing/slackening of muscle;
and/or/an-other-communication of 3/Three: STIMULATION OF BODY-MOVING/LIKE-SENSE SINCE OF ELECTRICITY OF CAUSED OF IN OF BODY SINCE 1. tiny metals in human 2. metals moved since of energies striked/hitting metals 3. energies sent/from machine far/distant/not-close/no-nearness of miles.
_/-------"_:-_
I got/received a text of communication/question/ask of technology of body muscle flexing caused of energies of machines far of miles:_"\_ Everyone knows this already. How do you fix it. _/"_:-_ . I am of communication/answer/reply of letter of word of language of text of:_"\_ Humans of policing/military live of:_[\_ slackening/tensing of muscles of earlier and later of slackening/tensing of muscles since of brain of body of since of human of living of brain of body of since of sense/sensation of communication/text/speech of computer program software of language of words of anything/everything/eachthing/allthings of human of living of _{-\_[-\_ slackening/tensing of muscles of earlier and later of slackening/tensing of muscles _/-]_{--\_[--\_ and _/--]_ and _[--\_ or _/--]_/--}_[-\_ flexing of muscles so of living of muscle of nearer and and or farther of muscle _/-]_/-}_/]_:-_/"_:-_ .
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>>683909257
If she's not forcing it onto you mind your own fuggen business please
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>>683909683
That's because you need variety in your diet to grow up. I remember a few years ago a german mother was arrested for feeding her 3 weeks baby only soy milk, it had severe deficiencies in everything from vitamins to calcium. Child services took the baby from her, bitch wouldn't even breastfeed her child...
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>>683909257

Just eat a bacon cheeseburger in front of her.
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>>683909469
Sure there is, jizz-knuckles. Animals are tasty!
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>>683909683
1 - if your child is over 5 years old you should force him on a vegan diet
2 -
>But it is considered child abuse if forcing vegan diet on children

and it is animal abuse slughterinig and eating them.
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>>683910732
>animals have equal rights as humans
why would they

>>683910353
>>683910442
kys
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>>683909469
Enjoy your problematic glasses and black cock
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>>683910732
You should have a stern word with every other species of animal (and some plants) which eat other animals.
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>>683910856
so do you really think that your life matter more in this flying rock in the infinite nothingness than a cow or a dogs?we are the superior race and they are inferior?that sounds like nacism to me hitler.
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>>683909804
This. 100x this.
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>>683910318
most vegans would, there are idiots everywhere
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>>683910953
you are an idiot lmao
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>>683911334
Spoken like a true vegan who ran out of arguments.
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>>683911055
A human life matters more because humans have decided it does. Because valuing our own life and that of the people around us as more than that of some squirrel somewhere in a forest is what gives it value in the first place.

Nothing can have value if it's not worth more than something else, to say you value all life as equal is to say you value no life at all.

That's pretty edgy anon
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>>683911238
your logic

>i white christian male killed somebody
>we arrested him and he goes to prison for 5 years,nothing to see here

>a white vegan male killed somebody
>fucking vegans they are the scum of earth

there are extremists and dumb people everywhere faggot.
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>>683911334
And you are either female or gay
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>>683911429
have you seen earthlings (a documentary movie)
watch it and then come back here
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It's not a bad idea. In fact, it's a bad idea for you to not be vegan.

If you want me to provide some health tips for your girlfriend to eat vegan and ensure optimal health, then I can do that. Otherwise, you'll have to wait for morally bankrupt and intellectually vacuous anons to provide you with an answer that satisfies your untenable position.
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>>
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>>683909257
>compassion
>non violent
>not "for" the plant
Plants are a living thing. Also, humans are capable of eating and digesting and gaining benefits from meat and vegetables. Should she stoo going in the sun because it causes cancer, blindness and sunburns? Should she stop swimming because of bends,drowing and the unkown? No. So there is no reason to be so exclusive
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>>683909257
Because that shit is hella gay. Isn't that argument enough?
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>>683909257
Once you go vegan, you become food.
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>>683909804
So much this.

Vegans are some of the most pretentious assholes on the planet.

Vegetarians can't even stand them.
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>>683911055
Of course the life of an human matters more to other humans. By the same bullshit logic, do you think that individual lives matter at all to the scale of the universe?
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>>683909257
car tires are made from animals.
tell her shes not allowed to drive

some shoes are made from animals. tell her shes not allowed to use shoes
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>>683911887
what if I knew what happened to the animals and just didn't care enough to stop eating them?
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>>683911978
have fun with your closed-minded thinking.

you never gonna make it.
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Vegans are arrogant, anti-human shitheads. They'd love nothing more than to save the animals, but have no problem with the idea of people dying.
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>>683909257
being a vegetarian is a life style choice

going vegan is joining a cult of retarded idiots who are living a lie
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>>683909257
1. Veganism is unhealthy, you need meat
2. There's absolutely no problem killing animals to eat them.

You can point out some obvious facts, like the shape of our teeth, which clearly proves we're omnivorous, our biological needs for proteins, or the fact that our ancestors (chimps) also eat meat.
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>>683912013
Then you're a sociopath and your inability to feel empathy for the suffering of others, or moral compunction for being complicit in that suffering, proves that you are mentally ill and thus unfit to make such judgments.
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>>683909257
Going vegan can cause genetic mutations in your DNA and can cause long term health problems to your future kids like heart disease and early appendix removal
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>>683911887
Vegans cunts forgot the possibility that someone would know about conditions in animal farms and still don't care because they are not some bleeding heart retard.
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>>683909257
Women who go vegan also become bull nosed bulldykes and feminazis
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>>683909257
There's literally nothing wrong with being vegan. Actively trying to do less harm to animals is morally a good thing. The only really valid argument for eating meat and using animal products is that you don't care about that
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>>683912105
There's literally nothing wrong with this picture. If aliens need to eat human, they do it, no problem with that.
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>>683909257

If you don't eat meat then i'm sure all the already dead and processed animals will surely thank you.

your personal decision does nothing to hinder the meat industry, the wheels keep turning whether you ride or not.

It's not necessarily healthier if you don't watch your intake.

arguments like these are a good way to lose your GF.
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>>683911453
Or, all life is equal, and worth more than shit that isn't alive? Even if your argument made sense it wouldn't make sense
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>>683912326
Sorry i can't hear u over the sound of my stingray boots curb stomping a dumbass PETAfag
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>>683912255
This picture is absolutely retarded. If you're older than 16 and still didn't understand how world really works, you most likely have down syndrom.
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>>683912406
Why is it worth more than the things that aren't alive?
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>counter arguments on why going vegan is a bad idea

why would I counter argument that going vegan is a bad idea? It is! Tell her her farts will smell bad as fuck or somehting.
ITT: SJW's, newfriends, tumblr, literal faggotry.
Fuck off twats, go "eat yer vegebebles" somewhere else
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>>683912143
Oh no someone call you for your bullshit so he must be close minded! Maybe you're just not as right as you think you are
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>>683912394

Finally a good point.
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>>683912192
1. The preponderance of scientific studies prove the opposite.
2. That is an untenable ethical position for which you have no justification.

>facts
>teeth shape
Like the fact that the majority of our mouths are molars and wisdom teeth are a vestigial trait from our evolutionary past of being principally herbivorous? The fact that we can eat and digest meat does not mean that we should. That is an appeal to nature.

Do you seriously believe plants don't have proteins? Did fail middle school biology and health class?

>>683912490
In capitalism, your function as a worker is to simply work, buy, consume, and die. That is the basis of your role in capitalism. If you don't like that, then the problem is with the system, not the fact that your role is that.
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>>683909257
The only argument is that meat tastes nice.
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>>683912531
Actually farts of carnivores smell way worse
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>>683912679
And women who don't eat meat are bulldykes
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If meat didn't give us anything useful we wouldn't eat it . Same goes with cows milk.
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>>683909257
John Sakars...
I think that's enough...
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>>683912406

Value is decided by what's at the top.
Since we're at the top, everything is automatically less valuable then us.
animals, being animals do not possess the intelligence to appeal this. reinforcing our power to make the rules, and our position above them.
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>>683912710
mmmm, did you smell them all?
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>>683912905
CIA?
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>>683912905
A lot of them ;)
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she really has to consider the expenses. Going vegan isnt that easy. I know quite a lot of people who could not handle being a vegetarian without getting seriously ill. going vegan is not just cutting all animal protein from your diet like many fucktards do its more about substituting.
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>>683912905
Of courshe
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>>683909257
In the great scheme of thing,
where the plastic we use kills 5000 people a year,
and the recycling of electronics kills 2000.

Not eating meat doesn't really fucking matter,
everything that makes modern society great is built on the slavery of others.
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>>683911887
this implies that the planting, harvesting, transport and storage of vegetable agriculture doesn't
Poison the area with insecticides killing billions of insects every year.
Kill hundreds of thousands of small animals with harvesting machines.
Cause 80% of national road kill as trucks and trains move that food around.
Poison and trap millions of small mammals and other animals that try to eat that food in warehouses.
The carnage to get your mixed salad onto your ignorant plate is forgotten because its an inconvenient truth that undermines everything you propose to believe.
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Were all gonna die anyway. Why go vegan?
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>>683912675
>1. The preponderance of scientific studies prove the opposite.
No, you lack proteins, this is a fact, actually, just go back to school

>2. That is an untenable ethical position for which you have no justification.
True, but our nature isn't "ethical", and the way nature works isn't either. You can behave how you want, as long as you don't annoy everybody with your teenagers opinions (which vegans always do), but the fact that animals kill animals to live has nothing to do with your moral or with "ethics".

>Like the fact that the majority of our mouths are molars... blabla hurr durr
different shapes = omnivorous, face it

>Do you seriously believe plants don't have proteins? Did fail middle school biology and health class?
gf is an engineer in agriculture, so I know the difference between plant proteins and animal proteins, which you don't, obviously.

>In capitalism, your function as a worker is to simply blabla hurr durr
This is a simplistic way of depicting reality, that retarded leftists usually enjoy. This is easy, simple, sketchy, shiny, but this is just NOT how society works. Especially the TV thing, which is quite hilarious, tbh.
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>>683909257
Why do you care OP?
As long as she doesn't become an insufferable bitch saying you should become vegan as well there´s no real issue.
If she doesn´t have nutritional deficiencies there´s not really a good counter argument against veganism.
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>Farmers cut down heaps of trees to make room for vegetables
>Destroying animals homes
this anon explained it better >>683913167
overall, vegan is just as bad as eating animal products.
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>>683913167
fucking kek, this is brilliant, anon, thanks.
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>>683913324

"As long as she doesn't become an insufferable bitch saying you should become vegan as well"

She will though. I've never met a Vegan that didn't.
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Why do you care? If she is not making you eat Vegan it shouldnt even be a problem.
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>>683911955

With this kind of logic, we should also be giving as much money as possible to charity. What, you want a bed to sleep on? That money could serve niggers in Africa! Don't be an egotistical non-veggie!
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>>683912105
That's called survival of the fittest. Aliens are better at it than us? Perfectly fine.
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>>683913342

I'd say the production of vegetables, from the fields to the plate, whilst not fault free, is overall cheaper(?) and more efficient than the production of meat.
I've got nothing to base this on except what i was taught in middle school ages ago.
believe what you want.
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>>683911806
Plants cannot experience pain or nociception, are neither sentient nor conscious, and have no nervous system by which any of that could even be possible. Thus, there is no moral obligation to abstain from eating plants. Even if plants could experience pain or nociception, and they are sentient and conscious, we would still be morally obligated to eat plants because eating animals requires the death of more plants than would directly eating plants, thereby rendering any such argument absurd.

Yes, because the ultraviolet rays of the Sun can cause cancer, blindness, and sunburns, people should limit their exposure to those rays. Ever consider what sunblock is, idiot? Given that swimming under controlled conditions after sufficient training has virtually no risk of bends or drowning, such risks are not sufficient to avoid swimming altogether. Regardless, in both cases, you are conflating activities which may only harm the agent (being in sunlight and swimming) with actions which cause harm and suffering to others (consuming animal products and byproducts). Those are not similar and to treat them as such is misleading and demonstrates either dishonesty or a lack of critical thinking on your part.
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Becoming a vegan is only one thing: Arrogant.

You live in the first world and your life is so pretty and perfect you start to think animals deserve the same rights as humans, and you stop eating meat, hell, you stop using animal products like eggs, honey, wool, and silk because you're going full retard. Meanwhile on the other side of the world is a continent full of starving children, that could die any day because they can't find food. Will you look in their eyes and say that a cow's life is worth just as much, no, more than theirs and they can't eat it?
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>>683913453
Perhaps because you hang out with the wrong people?
I´ve met many vegans, and so far none have tried to convince me to become vegan. Of course we had some discussions about it because I wanted to understand why they wanted to impose a special "diet" to themselves, but it was always in a calm, civilized way.

Plus, if you look at the situation in this thread, OP is being the real insufferable bitch because he doesn´t want his girlfriend to eat what she wants (he didn´t not ask whether this could be harmful for her or anything, he just asked for arguments so she would not become vegan).
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>>683911055
Like any species humans prioritize there own, you do not see wolves rushing to save a deer from a bear do you? It is not that our lives matter more than there's it is that humans want humans to survive more than other species.
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>>683909257
Tell her to go vegan. Dump that bitch if she starts to beg you to go vegan. But treat her nice. Eat vegan with her once in a while. Then go out with your friends and get a 5 pound steak. Ezpz.
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>>683913253
>No, you lack proteins, this is a fact, actually, just go back to school
Then how is it that I sometimes struggle with having too much protein while on a vegan diet? I can literally have upwards of 200g of protein a day if I wanted to on a vegan diet. The body moreover requires such little protein that simply eating fruit can get you enough. You are bullshitting and I am now certain that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Because your position is untenable, unethical, and unjustifiable, you have no logical reason to hold it. By continuing to do so, you are openly admitting that you are either unwilling or unable to be a rational agent and are thus unfit to make such decisions about your life.

We are omnivorous, but our evolutionary diet was principally plant-based and meat was (and still is) an entirely optional component of human diet. The fact that we are omnivorous is completely irrelevant and does not justify the consumption of animal products.

>gf is an engineer in agriculture, so I know the difference between plant proteins and animal proteins, which you don't, obviously.
An agricultural engineer is not a biochemist. The fact that she has a degree is largely irrelevant; her degree is largely irrelevant to biochemistry; and her degree or knowledge, and whatever authority or legitimacy that imparts, does not apply to you. I don't care who your girlfriend is or what education she has. You're still factually incorrect and the scientific consensus supports that.

>This is a simplistic way of depicting reality, that retarded leftists usually enjoy. This is easy, simple, sketchy, shiny, but this is just NOT how society works. Especially the TV thing, which is quite hilarious, tbh.
Kill yourself.
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>>683913775
So basically life is not important, but intelligence is.
I'm just going to remind you of this: Animals are not sentient. An animal dying makes just as much impact on it's brain as it does on the chemical balance inside a plant. Also, fish and insects can't feel pain, they can't feel a lot of things. Is it then OK to eat them because they have no feelings to hurt?
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>>683913862
nigger what?
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>>683913775

whether you choose plant oil or animal oil, you're still a gear in the machine. Anything you do to yourself will also affect others.
Also, your argument sucks
> nociception
plants know when they're damaged, dumbass.
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>>683913907

This. just this. nothing more than this.
OP got his answer, thread's closed.
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If vegans really cared more about the animals they should go into a forest and kill themselves, you elminate the carbon footprint you have of simply being alive, and you return the nutrients you "stole" from them.
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>>683909257
its really better all round, no need to feed animals to fatten them up.
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>>683914082
Animals certainly are sentient, which has been an established scientific consensus for decades. Do you not know what sentience is?

Yes, fish and insects to have nociceptors, so they for all intents and purposes either experience pain or some form of nociception similar to pain. Because of that, you have a moral obligation to abstain from consuming them.

>>683914136
Plants lack a nervous system, much less a central nervous system, in order to experience nociception. Thus, plants cannot by definition "know" when they are damaged.
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>>683914420

Wiki has a different def of nociception then what i was taught in class. You win this round.
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>>683914420
Ever consider they can have their own type of nervous system that we haven't classified as?
^ is just as far-reaching as
>fish and insects to have nociceptors
also learn to grammar
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>>683914042
Not the guy you're replying to but you're the kind of vegan everybody hates
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>>683914420
If we look at the definition of sentience that animals can see hear and feel then yes animals are sentient, but then so would slugs and worms be. If we go by the definition that requires self awareness, then no, animals are not sentient.
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>>683914042
>Then how is it that I sometimes struggle with having too much protein while on a vegan diet? blabla hurr durr
Go back to school, seriously, and learn about plants/animals proteins. Ask any serious nutritionnist, you'll get the same answer : this is very difficult to have a balanced diet when vegan, you have to take care of what you eat A LOT, because this is not a natural diet to us. And you'll still need food supplements, like B12. Also, it makes your hair fall. This is unhealthy, get over it.

>An agricultural engineer is not a biochemist.
Actually, she is highly qualified in biochemistry, yes, this is one of her specialities.

>Kill yourself.
Says the kid with no valid point. Your lack of ability to handle a complex situation is obvious.
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>>683909469
Omnivorism is better for your health since you will have a more balanced diet, it has literally no impact on the planet beside killing some animals that will die eventually anyway, either by vicious mauling or starvation/dehydration/senescence, and we are animals on this planet as well.
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>>683914042
>Because your position is untenable, unethical, and unjustifiable, you have no logical reason to hold it. By continuing to do so, you are openly admitting that you are either unwilling or unable to be a rational agent and are thus unfit to make such decisions about your life.

There's nothing unethical with eating meat. This is absolutely OK.
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>>683912710
That's a great argument
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>>683913907
Now that's a good answer
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>>683914697
Of course I have, but without the necessary and sufficient evidence to warrant such a conclusion, there is no reason to believe that they do. Even if they do, however, that does not change the ethical rationale underpinning veganism.

>also learn to grammar
What a tragedy, I forgot to delete a stray preposition while splicing sentences.

>>683914935
And I'm supposed to care about whether my behavior conforms to the preconceived notions of some pig-ignorant bigots why?

Usually, stereotypes are projections of one's own ignorance and insecurities onto another. The fact that you consider me representative of a particular stereotype is more likely to reflect poorly on you than me.

>>683915026
Sentience requires a sufficiently complex nervous system for that quality to emerge. Although it's unclear at this time, worms and slugs may indeed qualify as that. And? Is that supposed to detract from my argument?

>>683915121
>Go back to school, seriously, and learn about plants/animals proteins. Ask any serious nutritionnist, you'll get the same answer :
Most nutritionists are never educated about veganism and what little they are "taught" is either factually incorrect or unsubstantiated by evidence. You're clearly a product of that misinformation. Do yourself a favor and read objective sources from people who have a firm understanding of a vegan diet from a nutritional and biochemical perspective.

You have literally no basis for claiming that veganism is unhealthy. You're just peddling myths about it and it's, quite frankly, pathetic. Either make specific claims or fuck off.

As for that hair loss myth, nutritional deficiencies can cause hair loss, not veganism. If people are deficient in iron and zinc, they are more prone to hair loss regardless of their dietary practices.

>>683915165
>rationalization of unethical behavior
>thought-terminating clichés
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>>683915173
Eating meat causes direct suffering to the animals being eaten, and indirect suffering to the people who went hungry due to inefficient food production as caused by raising livestock and who experience the effects of global warming (of which raising livestock is one of the principal contributors). It is unethical to cause (unnecessary) suffering, so it is unethical to eat meat.

Google "ethics of eating meat veganism". This is basic ethics that everyone should already know.
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>>683916034
>Most nutritionists are never educated about veganism and what little they are "taught" is either factually incorrect or unsubstantiated by evidence
topkek. Vegans : better than science !

>You have literally no basis for claiming that veganism is unhealthy. You're just peddling myths about it and it's, quite frankly, pathetic. Either make specific claims or fuck off.
I gave you valid points, kid.
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>>683916220
>It is unethical to cause (unnecessary) suffering
No, it's not, unless you give me a valid proof. Also, eating meat is necessary to omnivorous species. So your point is twice wrong.
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>>683916265
"Factually incorrect or unsubstantiated by evidence" implies that the nutritionists' opinions are not scientific and conflicting with scientific evidence, you fucking retard. Is your reading comprehension as bad as is your knowledge on this topic?

You repeated thought-terminating clichés meant to keep low-information people like you from thinking "too much" about topics which are inconvenient for those in power, not "valid points". Your claims thus far do not qualify under any condition as logically valid.

Last chance. Either cite specific scientific data about specific claims which support your previous claims, or fuck off and preferably kill yourself.
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>>683909257

rape maybe? that'll show her!
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>>683916543
>"Factually incorrect or unsubstantiated by evidence" implies that the nutritionists' opinions are not scientific and conflicting with scientific evidence, you fucking retard.

Vegans : learning nutrition to nutritionists. topkek.
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>>683916034
Strict veganism causes nutritional deficiencies, faggot.
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>>683916515
If you seriously don't understand how it is unethical to cause unnecessary suffering, then no logical proof will convince you. You simply lack the necessary and sufficient education on this topic to understand my argument.

If a species is omnivorous, that does not mean that it must eat both plants and animals to survive. That only means that its diet consists of both plants and animals.

You simply aren't qualified to have this conversation. Get educated. This conversation is through.

>>683916849
>Nutritionists cannot be wrong and their every belief is by definition substantiated by overwhelming scientific evidence.
This is how childish and stupid you're being. Kill yourself.

>>683916976
Such as what? I get every single essential vitamin, mineral, amino acid, and macronutrients wholly from plant sources. Try thinking for a moment: if "strict veganism", also known as "veganism", caused nutritional deficiencies, vegans of 10+ years wouldn't exist. They'd all have either died, given up veganism, or receive constant medical attention. That is demonstrably false, however, so it's clear that a vegan diet is capable of providing every single essential nutrient for bodily function.
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>>683910732
>Stunting your child's development because eating meat is unethical
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>>683916619
/thread
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>>683917243
Literally zero evidence that a nutritionally adequate vegan diet stunts childhood development.
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>>683917204
>If you seriously don't understand how it is unethical to cause unnecessary suffering, then no logical proof will convince you
Unless, you provide a valid point, you look retarded.

>This is how childish and stupid you're being. Kill yourself.
You have literally no valid point and you claim you know nutrition better than nutritionists, this is just fucking stupid.
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>>683909257
Tell her to go vegetarian
You get a lot more protein and vitamins and shit then when you are a vegan
And people might just respect you a little more
>>
>>683909257
Veganism might make sense as a dietary plan if you want a certain body shape, but there is no moral or ethical reason to abstain from eating meat. We are human beings, we are omnivores.
>>
>>683909257
No need to be vegan, just quit dairy. It's super fattening and arguably unnatural/unhealthy.
>>
>>683911055
life itself is inherently meaningless. humans are the ones that decide what is valuable. and if you want to look at the law around the world you wont find any civilized nation that animals other than humans should be considered equal to humans. Feel free to morally object but the entire world unanimously disagrees with you and your argument will never be taken seriously.
>>
This whole thread is filled with retards and baits. Everyone do me a favor and kill yourselves.
>>
>>683918954
My old lady is now vegan

I'm not not eating meat because of her and her gross indian BO smelling food

She constantly is making a mess and buying mason jars that she does fuck all with

Maybe Ill move to the wilderness
>>
>>683917325
>>683917204
https://authoritynutrition.com/top-5-reasons-why-vegan-diets-are-a-terrible-idea/

kys
>>
>>683909257
Break up now. Vegans are like christians. She will preach at you until you give in and become one yourself or you walk away.
Source(s) I have dated both.
>>
>>683919461
been 13 years for me

ONLY thing that bugs me is her buying really expensive shit and never eating it
>>
>>683909257
If everyone was vegan livestock would have a worse life as they require humans. They would likely become pests destroying crops and would need a form of pest control to manage their impact. They would have harder lives in the wild and would end up getting killed by people anyway.

Eating meat isn't the problem, eating cheap meat is the problem. Humane treatment also increasing quality and taste of the meat and the animals havethe best life possible.
>>
>>683919394
Nutritional yeast for all B vitamins, including B12. Creatine and carnosine are produced through a combination of the nine essential amino. For more creatine, consume more arginine, glycine, and methionine. For more carnosine, consume more beta-alanine and histidine. ALA omega-3 is easily acquired through flax and chia seeds, and DHA omega-3 can be isolated from algae and taken orally as a supplement.

Vegan diets ARE proven to be better than other diets. For example, vegan diets lower IGF-1 levels, which is a cofactor for tumor growth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2374537/

A vegan diet has also been proven to be overall the healthiest diet among all major dietary categories: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

The third claim is bullshit with no serious substantiation, and actually itself constitutes lies and fearmongering. Most vegans don't rely on the so-called "China Study" because much better research has since then become available. The fourth claim is likewise bullshit with zero substantiation.

Animal foods have higher IGF-1 levels; are proven to have both correlative and some causal relationships to various cancers, most notably colorectal cancer and prostate cancer; and have low overall nutrition outside of protein and some minerals. Plant-based protein sources are far more nutrient-rich and contain high levels of phytonutrients and other antioxidants when eaten whole, which meat does not have.

Oh and the author? Kris Gunnars promotes a paleo diet, which is a known fad diet that has little to no scientific substantiation and which does not in any way represent paleolithic dietary practices. Here's an article debunking his bullshit:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/04/paleo-advocates-get-vegan-diets-and-saturated-fat-wrong-2.html

Seriously, though, kill yourself.
>>
>>683920714
what about fish m8?
>>
>>683920669
Livestock populations are artificially high. The cessation of raising livestock for consumption would cause a sharp drop in livestock population such that the ridiculous concerns you mentioned would never occur. Moreover, a cessation of livestock consumption does not necessarily entail the end of livestock farming. Livestock could continue to be cared for by farmers as sanctuaries for domesticated animals as efforts to reintroduce them to the wild could undergo.

You're essentially rationalizing unethical conduct by quibbling over largely inconsequential and improbable hypotheticals, which keeps you from affirming the logical conclusion that the cessation of livestock consumption would be an unprecedented benefit on a global scale.

>>683921040
What about fish?
>>
>>683919595
Try 5 years buying expensive shit, thinking wow the food actually goes fast and then finding out the how is bulimic.. fucker was barfing up all this expensive shit as she was preaching to me about vegan being better and healthier..

ITS A SIMPLE FACT OF MODERATION.
WHY DO WE ALL HAVE TO BE SO EXTREME ABOUT EVERYTHING.
>>
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>>683921289
Do you eat fish? I have so many vegan friends who eat fish.
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>>683921903
If they eat fish, they are not vegan by definition, so I would advise that they learn what the fuck veganism is and start familiarizing themselves with the word "pescatarian".

The only aquatic animals who could possibly qualify as vegan, or borderline vegan, would be mollusks and jellyfish.

Vegan means not consuming any animal products. This typically includes honey, which is a product of forced bee labor; and gelatin, which is used to make some types of Jell-O and many of the capsules used in supplements. It can also include coconuts if those coconuts are picked using enslaved monkeys. It can also include refined sugar, since much to most refined sugar is produced using bone char. Veganism also entails abstinence from animal products which one does not consume as food, including items such as leather, wool, and silk.

If your friends do not satisfy those conditions, they aren't vegan. Faggots like your friends already fucked up the term "vegetarian" so much that it doesn't even mean vegetarian anymore, since a vegetarian can eat dairy (lacto-vegetarian) or eggs (ovo-vegetarian) or both (lacto-ovo vegetarian), or even meat on occasion (semivegetarian). If your friends want to continue abusing a term out of ignorance and a wanton lack of consideration, at least abuse "vegetarian" and leave "veganism" to people who desperately need a term to actually describe our dietary practices and its corresponding ethical principles since "vegetarianism" has been appropriated. It's already hard enough being a vegan in a society with such general ignorance about the topic that they don't even understand the most basic parts of it (like your friends). We don't need the added convolution.

Unless your friends are eating something like pic related, and that's what they mean by "fish", they aren't vegan.
>>
>>683909257
vitamin B12. It's the only vitamin that is impossible to get from a pure vegan/vegetarian diet. Luckily it takes years to build a deficit and show simptoms.
>>
>>683923279
Nutritional yeast, mushrooms, and the soil on unwashed vegetables all have B12. Nutritional yeast alone easily provides 100%+ of B12 needs. For example, yesterday I consumed 333% of my DRI of B12. My weekly average this week is 269%.
>>
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>>683922967
>It can also include coconuts if those coconuts are picked using enslaved monkeys
Well I have been vegetarian 28 years, vegan now for 6 years and I couldn't care less about those bloody monkeys

If I have to go to work doing a job I hate 5 days a week, so can they,let those little bludgers earn their keep like the rest of us have to.
>>
>>683923886
In other words, you are knowingly inconsistent with the very principles of the dietary and ethical system to which you ostensibly subscribe, i.e. not a vegan.

Also:
>I'm an alienated wage slave owned by a capitalist master who exploits me, so other animals should suffer the same fate rather than trying to change the conditions of both the animals and myself.
Great argument.
>>
Are there any other vegans out there who don't give a shit about animal welfare? I'm one simply because it's healthier.
>>
>>683924569
Then you're a strict vegetarian. A vegan is someone whose dietary practices are a manifestation of their ethical position toward animal welfare. Therefore, the answer to your question is necessarily "there are no vegans who do not give a shit about animal welfare". You're basically asking the equivalent of whether there are any carnivores out there who don't eat meat: the property you described is a necessary condition for that classification.
>>
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>>683924386
>>I'm an alienated wage slave owned by a capitalist master who exploits me,
so instead of employing and feeding animals to do the work of picking coconuts, we should exploit low paid native labour to do the same work, or stop eating coconuts altogether

Another great argument.

I am a vegan because I find animal slaughter horrifying and could never bring myself to consume any product that relies on such a horrific process, but it doesn't mean I sentimentalize animals , nor avoid any product where they are employed humanely
>>
>>683924386
>Wage slave
Hey Mr reddit
Also all vegans are cancer and I'm going to continue feasting on the flesh and spawn of innocent animals thanks
>>
>>683909683
Lol no it isnt. Not giving sufficient nourishment is, which is just people being retards. If i fed my child nothing but red meat, thats child abuse.
>>
>>683924857
I don't eat any animal products so I am a vegan. My reason for being one is entirely irrelevant.
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>>683924954
>>
This whole thread is basicaly pro-meat neckbeards vs anti-meat neckbeards. Eat meat if you like it dont eat if you dont like it. But dont shove your views down someone elses throat.
>>
>>683909257
how about the fact that it's fucking gay?
>>
>>683911920
dark soul --> fuck yeah
>>
Eat whatever you want. Just don't try to tell me that not being vegan is wrong. Humans are omnivores.
>>
>>683911055
this is b8, you idiots
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>>683909829
It is gaining consciousness across borders, it's starting to speak!
>welcome our robot overlords
>>
>>683924895
Alternatively, how about we neither enslave (not "employ") animals animals nor employ wage slaves to perform that labor? You're giving a false choice. Neither are necessary conditions for a functional system, and it's disturbing that you accept and condone both.

Refusing to support a practice or system which entails the abuse of animals is characteristically vegan. That's not "sentamentaliz[ing] animals", that's acknowledging a fact and squaring that fact with one's ethical commitments. The line you draw at industrial slaughter is an arbitrary one, for it's clear that your position on animal welfare is an unprincipled one if you condone it in some circumstances simply because it is not as visually "horrifying" for you.

>>683924954
Wage slavery is principally a radical leftist term. Reddit is primarily liberal to social democratic, neither of which are radical leftist (and social democratism is only borderline leftist).

When the revolution comes, you'll be lined up and shot alongside all the rest.

>>683925186
"Dietary vegans" are to veganism what anarcho-capitalism is to anarchism. The only people who consider so-called "dietary vegans" to be vegans are themselves. The rest of the vegan community doesn't consider you vegan and with good reason.

I'm glad you abstain from animal products (presumably not just animal-derived foods), but to consider that "veganism" is to misunderstand what veganism originally was and continues to be by its base. Call yourself a vegan if you want, but don't expect actual vegans to consider you that.

>>683925689
>Stop fighting for what you believe in. Just believe whatever you want, keep it to yourself, and continue to allow yourself and others to be fucked by a system you disagree with like a good little cuck.

>>683925967
>Stop letting me know when I'm wrong.
>>
>>683925689
You could say the same about any humane social reform but it wouldn't make your opinion tenable

e.g " This whole thread is basically pro-slavery vs anti-slavery.Keep slaves if you like it don't keep slaves if you don't like it.But don't shove your views down someone else's throat"

Society has passed that point , just as someday it will come to view animal slaughter as barbaric,horrific and no longer acceptable
>>
I'm not vegan,but it is much better to be, there is no real counter argument.
>>
>>683926084
I don't really give a flying fuck if other vegans don't think I'm a vegan. Their incorrect opinions do not matter.
>>
>>683909804
Since I got 4 of them in my family. I can agree on this statement.
>>
>>683921289
Farmers are getting a bad deal as it is even with an financial insentive, you think they'll carry on just to be nice to the animals?

And you can't reintroduce livestock to the wild, they're not wild animals to begin with!
>>
>>683909804
dont bother arguing with this meat eaters,once they are there its like a cult of closed-minded dumb faggots.

run while you can.
>>
>>683926166
Aliens could show up anyway and still say the same stuff if we were all vegan purely on the bases that veganism only been around less than 100 years.
What if the aliens show up and wounder why we treat Women/Men/Other Races of humans equally and not using slavery or just simply exterminated to one race?
>>
>>683926084
I still find it very hard to see how making animals do the same work that humans do is abuse or exploitation.Those are just emotive words that have no meaning devoid of context.

If animals are treated humanely , then we may find their employment distasteful , and uncomfortable to deal with , but hardly a violation of our commitment to animal welfare

I avoid all animal products, including honey and leather, but not eating coconuts because they may have been picked by monkeys is an extreme viewpoint that makes us vegans seem ridiculous( BTW I haven't eaten coconuts in years, but only because I don't much care for them)
>>
>>683909257
Meat is so tasty
>>
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

WATCH THIS FAGS!
>>
>>683909257
If someone wants to be a vegan, I want them to have private health insurance so that I don't have to contribute financially to their poor health choices. Otherwise I don't mind.
My argument for why I'm not a vegan is firstly to avoid those health complications myself, and secondly because the suffering of animals is not a particularly motivating factor for me. I kill animals for my own personal convenience all the time. I care about humans, not animals. I have a mild preference, all other things being equal, for animals to not suffer, but if I have to stop eating meat then all things aren't equal.
Among equally-priced equally-delicious meat, I choose the least cruelly produced. If animal suffering makes the meat cheaper or more delicious, I favor animal cruelty, because I'm for the reduction of human suffering even if that comes at the expense of animal suffering.
>>
>>683926805
poor health choice?bro you are so misguided.
studioes shown meat etares have 80% chance of getting diabetes in a lifetime while vegans have 2%
vegans live 10 years longer than meat eaters.
check you facts before writing fag.
>>
>>683926984
go eat a dick faggot
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>>683926634
Maybe aliens would practice ethical reciprocity - ie if you don't kill and eat sentient beings, they won't kill and eat you

I'll be happy when you flesh eaters get the same treatment that you dole out to over 100 billion sentient beings every year just because you like the brief taste of flesh in your mouths more than you care about the pain and suffering entailed in getting there.

>>683926805
Poor health ? I am over 60 and in perfect health after 28 years as a veggo and now 6 years as a vegan.All the meat eaters I see around me are constantly in and out of hospital starting in their 40s as a result of the numerous ailments caused by their carnivorous diet.Us vegans having our own private health insurance would probably much cheaper for us, because we wouldn't be paying for flesh eaters heart disease and diabetes and other shit
>>
>>683927081
what is it?you cant disprove what i say so you attack my person instead? pathetic, but i dont care.i just want you to open your mind for other peoples ideas and at least try looking into veganism

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
>>
>>683911055
Hitler was vegan.
>>
just a vegan bodybuilder.

he dont use steroids neither supplements.
>>
>>683927272
>hitler was vegan
>hitler was christian

there are extremists and dumb people everywhere you faggot.
oh and i would love a source on that claim.
>>
>>683920714
> http://www.theveganrd.com
totally unbiased source there. V/10
>>
>>683909257
What the fuck?
Didn't she know that grass lives too?
And is as much important as meat to other mammals?
>>
Being vegan is a gateway ideology (similar to weed in case of drugs) to feminism
>>
>>683926984
Oh no, not the studioes.
Not those biased vegan studies that fail to get past peer review and so are only hosted by vegans on vegan sites!
Hey, why don't you just lie with even worse numbers? That makes it more believable right, since you're making the numbers up anyways?
>>
>>683927382
"Do you know that your Führer is a vegetarian, and that he does not eat meat because of his general attitude toward life and his love for the world of animals? Do you know that your Führer is an exemplary friend of animals, and even as a chancellor, he is not separated from the animals he has kept for years?...The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals, in particular vivisection, and has declared to terminate those conditions...thus fulfilling his role as the savior of animals, from continuous and nameless torments and pain. ”
— Neugeist/Die Weisse Fahne (contemporaneous pro-Nazi magazine)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism
>>
>>683927128
Yes, your poor health.
No, we're not talking about fatties who have no self control and can't put down the fork. Stop conflating obesity statistics with omnivorous diet in general.
>>
>>683927492
if every human would eat vegan in earth the plants would still get the better end of it.
do you know much land we use up just to feed those insane amounts of horses cows...
if every human on earth would be vegan then less plant would get eaten then before.
>>
>>683909257
If she suck your dick and swallows... then she is not a true vegan...
>>
>>683927615
>The Führer is an ardent opponent of any torture of animals
Except jews.
>>
>>683927615
>hitler was christian

how is it feels being hitler?
>>
we managed to get where we are by using animals to our advantage, i will not devolve
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>>683926255
It's incorrect to define veganism as it was originally defined, continues to be defined by the preponderance of vegans, and has always been defined in philosophical literature by both adherents and nonadherents? This is bordering on delusion.

>>683926518
And you think the world I'm envisioning includes capitalism or some other system in which the principal driver is profit? Good joke.

Livestock originated from the domestication of wild animals. Some livestock, such as pigs, can be reintroduced into the wild within a generation.

>>683926680
Abuse is the improper usage (misuse) or treatment (mistreatment) of an entity. It is abuse because the animals do not consent to it, and even if they do, they are hit and injured by their owners if they fail to perform to the owner's satisfaction. The forcible detainment of any animal also constitutes abuse.

Exploitation is a relation between two or more entities in which a dominant entity appropriates the surplus value of its subordinate(s), or when the subordinate(s) otherwise does not receive the full value of its labor. More simply, exploitation is the forced appropriation of unpaid labor from workers. It is exploitation for the same reason that wage slaves are exploited: they do not receive, own, and determine the full product of their labor (including its surplus value).

You're attempting to rationalize a morally inconsistently position because of the excessive fear of appearing ridiculous for living as consistently as feasibly possible with one's moral principles. There's a term for that: moral cowardice.

>>683927272
No, Hitler wasn't. He was temporarily prescribed a vegetarian diet by his personal physician under the belief that it could cure his flatulence.
>>
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>>683927272
I think that's a myth that can be easily dis proven.he was known to eat meat on may occasions

>>683927615
Myth Busted: Hitler Was Not a Vegetarian
http://www.naturalnews.com/025163_Hitler_vegetarian_vegetarianism.html

>>683926777
vegan food can be delicious too.So what?
>>
>>683909257
Shit dude. Do you understand how many women are in the world? Delete her number and move on.
>>
>>683909257
Let her do it she'll stay thin and her cum will taste better
>>
>>683927736
As I've already said, I am a vegan purely because it's healthier. I do not seek the approval or acceptance of other vegans so their (your) views are worthless to me.
>>
>>683927701
Jews are not animals for Hitler, there are demons.
>>
>>683909257
there is no argument against it
>Raised vegan
>Tall, healthy, decent weight, low body fat
>Food is good if you make the effort
>Loads of places do vegan food if you cant be bothered to make the effort

Just dont be a preachy vegan and most people are fine with it
>>
>>683927389
So you don't mind citing and supporting outright shills and sources which are blatantly biased against veganism, but if someone cites a pro-vegan sources, it's automatically discredited, regardless of the data it may cite or analysis it may provide?

You're an intellectual child. This board is fitting for you. Kill yourself forthwith.

>>683927494
Veganism is more likely to lead to veganarchism than feminism, stupid fuck.
>>
>>683927644
But who the fuck said insane amounts my parents are from village from one pork they can afford food for all the year... It's healthy and easy to digest for me and full of shit that I need to live... We also eat loots of vegetables and fruits they grow... Only going to market occasionally ... That's not my problem your country is wasting food
>>
>>683927736
I think the world your envisioning is an egocentric fantasy world.

Seriously, if you really care about the welfare of livestock you need to put more money into the industry, not less and make sure you're putting it in the right place. There are farmers out there who care very much about the quality of life of their animals.
>>
>>683909257
>>683909469
Vitamin D Deficiency
>>
>>683927978
one pig* half of it is enough to fill my freezer in fridge full
>>
>>683913167
This

Also, don't know how it is in 'murica, but where I'm from there's plenty of options on what meat you want to buy. There's the cheap imported shit, and then there's the domestic meat that's been produced following laws and guidelines to make sure the livestock isn't being treated poorly.

Add to this the fact that if the entire world goes vegan, we'd have to turn every inch of land into farms and plantations to compensate for the extra amounts of food we'd need to consume. There'd be no place left for the precious animals you're trying to save.
>>
>>683909573
Yeah, vegans instantly know karate.
>>
>>683928064
go outside in the sunlight then
>>
>>683910732
Not animal abuse because it's done "painlessly and humanly."

It's only slaughter if they feel pain before they die
>>
>>683928133
end even if my parent's lives in the city right now they even buy meat from local villagers that even helps the local economy so what's the point?
>>
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>>683927736
>You're attempting to rationalize a morally inconsistently position because of the excessive fear of appearing ridiculous
oh please , any vegan has a great deal of moral courage, in a world filled with 7 billion or psychopathic flesh eaters it takes courage to swim against the tide and endure the constant ridicule and disdain of the mass of people around you

On the other hand, your view that veganism is a form of socialism/communism,but with animals included , is absurd.We all have to work for a living, I don't care if monkeys have to as well.Hitting animals is abuse, employing them,not necessarily so
>>
>>683928254
isn't the definition of Slaughter killing many things at once?
they're called slaughterhouses
>>
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>>683909257

I've got a mate who's dating a hardcore vegan activist type and has been emotionally shoe-horned into doing some 'Meat free May' bullshit.

I'm tempted to just send them photos of perfectly cooked steaks ect just to fuck with them.

OP, long story short veganism, while healthier than most peoples shitty diets today, is still a crap choice nutritionally speaking. You need a balanced diet, we need animal fats, vitamins and minerals found in other dead animals to function. While modern societies usually consume too much meat, cutting it out all together is a stupid idea.

Humans are omnivores, while we can't completely break down plants like herbivores or completely digest complex proteins like carnivores, we can eat almost anything for some nutritional value from it.

tl;dr: We've had a million years of eating other animals including each other, stopping now is a stupid idea.
>>
Say "but meat....IS DELICIOUS" as you whip out your schlong and beat the heresy out of her, casually eating a pound of ground beef
>>
>>683909257
Here you have...

>>683927492
>>683927644
>>683927978
>>683928133
>>683928316
No thanks dude just do as my familly do learn the old good ways...
>>
>>683911055
Evolution was an arms race for control of the world and Homo sapiens won
>>
>>683909257
You have to become a vitamin pilpusher to make up for the lack of certaing vitamins you will be loosing. It is a horrible idea, a friend of mine nearly died due to a deficciency of carnosine, because it is found exclusively in animal flesh.
>>
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>>683928064
there are supplements for that.

Just tell her that if it's going to lead to guilt trips from her when you eat items she won't, problems in the future when you share a bank account and you spend money on these items, or continual shitty experiment meals that get thrown the fuck out when they turn out to taste like shit that leads to fights about wasted money, it might lead to problems in the relationship, and that's not a judgement on veganism itself, just differences and money shit which most, if not all couples eventually fight about.

if you're looking for a way to discount veganism as a dietary plan, there isn't much you can do. Eating too much soy can fuck with your hormones, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies can occur, but if you vary your diet properly and take supplements, eating vegan is generally healthier than eating meat (there isn't much to suggest that vegan diets are advantageous over vegetarian diets, especially if you're hardcore organic vegetarian and avoid all processed foods).
>>
>>683920714
>Vegan diet is more healthy and totally easy
>Nutritional yeast for all B vitamins, including B12. Creatine and carnosine are produced through a combination of the nine essential amino. For more creatine, consume more arginine, glycine, and methionine. For more carnosine, consume more beta-alanine and histidine. ALA omega-3 is easily acquired through flax and chia seeds, and DHA omega-3 can be isolated from algae and taken orally as a supplement.

Topkek. Vegan stupidity in a nutshell.
>>
>>683928427
Rest they need they growing in the garden that's all just occasionally shopping
>>
>>683909257
Tell her that consuming animals' milk and eggs don't hurt animals. Keeping to a healthy vegan diet is extremely difficult, and may require the assistance of experts. Vegetarianism is much easier stuff.
>>
>>683928563
More like the earth had a good run and we're the apocalypse.
>>
>>683928590
>Vegan diet is healthy
>there are supplements for what we lack

Veganism is a fucking fraud.
>>
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>>683909804
>>683926548

Looks like your only option now OP is to turn into sonic and run your problems away.
>>
>>683909257
ask her if she's happy to support massive deforestation around the globe
>>
>>683909257
>>
Vegetarianism is fine. You can live perfectly healthily without meat or fish.

Veganism is absolutely retarded. Not being able to eat eggs is retarded, they're one of the best sources of protein and there's no harm done to the animal in order to get them.

A vegan is so utterly retarded they would rather just throw away perfectly good and healthy eggs, or pour the milk directly from the udder into the drain - rather than using them.

Vegans are fucking scum. Vegetarians are alright. Omnivores are the best.
>>
>>683928143
>Add to this the fact that if the entire world goes vegan, we'd have to turn every inch of land into farms and plantations
What is it that you think your farm animals are eating? Not plants , because we haven't had to turn the whole world into farms and plantations to feed them, so what else?

>>683928254
Animals go into a slaughterhouse alive and whole, they emerge dead and chopped into pieces.What part about that is humane?Never mind halal and kosher slaughter,where the animal is fully conscious throughout the process of murder
>>
>>683909257
Veganism can be extremely unhealthy for someone who is not truly committed to it because it requires knowledge of the supplementation needed to maintain the diet peticularly it represents a massive issue with vitamin B12 deficiencies which can lead to neurological problems over the long term of the diet. I lived in San Francisco for many years I know many people who are vegans including sister who was for years and that she finally decided to become a dietitian the more she studied the more she realized how unhealthy and unrealistic that It was for actual Health purposes she also met individuals who were lifetime vegans who developed health problems who hadn't supplemented correctly because of its complexity it's truly not a good realistic diet choice if you're looking to be a healthy person despite all the biased rhetoric the best diet a person can have is to be heavily focused on fruits and vegetables but still occasionally consume animal products lightly
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>>683927862
>NaturalNews
come on fam

>>683927909
Except you're categorically not a vegan by definition, excepting the shoehorned pseudo-vegan redefining that so-called "dietary vegans" have attempted to establish. This is not a matter of "approval", but a matter of semantics and ideological classification.

Regardless, you're still my comrade because you can help promote the health benefits of a strictly vegetarian and vegan diet. Good luck with your "dietary veganism" and hopefully, you'll become an "ethical vegan" or "environmentalist vegan" as well.

>>683928061
A more effective strategy is to promote veganism and persuade others to become vegans. Doing so will naturally cause them to support vegan brands, outlets, and products. Such changes are ultimately inconsequential so long as capitalism remains the dominant system, however, so the focus of any vegan ought to be the overthrow of capitalism.

>>683928328
Veganism is not necessarily socialistic or communistic. My opinion, however, is that the goals of veganism cannot feasibly be achieved without a radical reorganization of social relations culminating in a complete replacement of the dominant system. This opinion is informed by my anarcho-communist and veganarchist beliefs. As a result, I criticize other vegans, usually liberals, for their position because I don't consider their goals achievable within a capitalist system. There is no incentive in capitalism to treat anything ethically and, in fact, there is extreme incentive to do just the opposite so long as it is profitable.

Again, you insist that the monkeys are being "employed". Are you seriously saying that it's employment when an agent is forced to work and is paid only in enough food and shelter to subsist? I take it that you consider the highest levels of employment in the United States history to be in the pre-Civil War South, then?
>>
>>683929006
But you take the poor chickens their "kids"
>>
>>683909257
Veganism is actually perfectly healthy when done properly. It provides all the nutrients that your body needs and is environmentally friendly. The only setback I can really think of is if you live in a country where it's difficult to get all the foods necessary. Though most countries including the US and most of europe can do it just fine.

The main discussion at hand is about the ethics of the situation, which is entirely subjective.

Make your own choice anon and do your research properly before you do ^_^
>>
>>683928740
most vegans aren't even vegans for their fucking health, they're vegans because of animal and employee exploitation and detrimental environmental effects of industrial meat and dairy.

also, unless WHO is somehow fraudulently interested in tanking (unsuccessfully, I might add) the meat industry, then processed meats are carcinogenic. Colon cancer runs in my family. That has been a strong motivator to cut down on my meat eating, even though I eat mostly vegetarian because my vegetarian wife does most of the cooking. With dairy and eggs, you can still eat a lot of tasty fucking meals. Have you tried seitan? it's actually really good. And this is coming from an American, all of whose favorite foods are various sandwiches, burgers, and pizza.
>>
>>683909257
Who cares, it's her choice. There's only a problem if she demands you also go vegan.
>>
>>683910353
And now I want to eat a bacon cheeseburger. Thanks.
>>
>>683929118
I am not a vegan by your definition and as I have already said, I do not consider your opinion worthwhile. Just accept that and move on.
>>
I always have a good laugh at how mad non-vegans get at the idea of veganism. Especially when most of them clearly have not done research. Why is it so hard for people to shut up if they don't know what the fuck they're talking about? Eat what you want. Us vegans aren't here to take your precious meat away fucking cry baby's. Veganism is undeniably healthier than non-vegan diets. However, to each their own. At least do some god damn research though before you come here spewing bullshit information and lumping all vegans into a stereotypical category
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>>683910353
That picture just made me go make a bacon and cheese burger. Good call.
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>>683928427
And that's also no my problem that you pay to much for food to all these food concerns, they going to waste it all anyway... Because some fuck's make money from it welcome in XXI century
>>
I live in Australia, so in order to create less animal deaths, I have to eat beef.

http://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659
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>>683929147
>most vegans aren't even vegans for their fucking health,
They still claim vegan is healthy, which is clearly a fraud.

>they're vegans because of animal and employee exploitation and detrimental environmental effects of industrial meat and dairy.
They can do whatever they want, free will, etc. but they're not entitled to behave like fucking teenagers and annoying every body with their veganism. Be vegan, who cares ? But stop telling every body every fucking day.

>also, unless WHO is somehow fraudulently interested in tanking (unsuccessfully, I might add) the meat industry, then processed meats are carcinogenic
Wrong. Eating TOO MUCH meat is carcinogenic, which we actually do in the western countries, that's true.
>>
>>683929123
You don't eat fertilised eggs, mate
>>
>>683909257

Got a friend that get hospitalized for not eating good..

Tell her its good she does it, however, tell her too that sometimes its undoable and that she need to make little execptions
>>
How is someone meant to get 250+ grams of protein daily from a vegan diet without excessive use of protein powder? (of which, veganism precludes the two most useful forms of protein powder)

or a huge amount of carbs?
>>
>>683928622
Wow, it's so difficult to have a serving of delicious and cheesy nutritional yeast once a day and know which foods are high in those amino acids and omega-3s in order to eat them.

Are you five years old? Have you not learned out to cook yet, so that's why you consider such simple tasks to be difficult?

>>683928740
The average person regardless of their diet is deficient (or at suboptimal levels) in many essential nutrients. The fact is that everyone, regardless of dietary practices, should be supplementing. Just because vegans have higher health standards, and thus actually take supplements, that doesn't mean that vegans are less healthy. Quite the contrary.

>>683929006
Google how eggs are produced. Your ignorance is inexcusable.

Also
>eggs
>healthy
Saturated fats, dietary cholesterol, and low nutrient density are not health traits.

>>683929384
>Stop telling me facts I don't want to accept
Fine by me. Enjoy being delusional, pseudo-vegan.
>>
>>683929642
they do in the Philippines, actually. it's called Balut. they probably have it elsewhere in gooktown, too.
>>
>>683929608
I don't know any annoying vegans. Sorry you do.
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>>683929824
They are not facts. They are your opinion. End of discussion.
>>
>>683909755
/thread
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>>683929824
>Wow, it's so difficult to have a serving of delicious and cheesy nutritional yeast once a day and know which foods are high in those amino acids and omega-3s in order to eat them.
Yes, it is, actually, when you're not uncultured and you want real food, which I do. Also, this is not relevant, you're promoting a non-healthy, incomplete diet.

>The average person regardless of their diet is deficient
Not relevant. The point is : you promote an unhealmthy, incomplete diet, and you still claim it's better than a normal, balanced nutrition. This is a fraud.
>>
>>683914042
Alright then. I have a masters in biochemistry. I'll weigh in as you think the degree makes it relevant.

There is a difference in the AA make up of plant and animal proteins.

On the side of the upright and sane however my degree doesn't mean shit in this case. Just look it up, it's not hard.
>>
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>>683929118
I take it that you consider the highest levels of employment in the United States history to be in the pre-Civil War South, then?

Another strawman argument , animals require only food and shelter ( and healthcare ) to subsist , humans have more extensive aspirations
>>
>>683929118
You're inadvertently promoting a genocide of livestock which would without doubt be considered the most humane way to deal with their plight.

But as long as you get the job done the first time they'll be no more suffering right, comrade?
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>>683913167
Simple solution. Kill all the blacks.

I don't know how it will help but we should still do it.
>>
I've known a couple folks that switched to vegan and regretted it. Most folks aren't willing to eat actual vegetables all the time which means they load up on carbs like noodles and bread. One chick is morbidly obese and blames it in a gland problem, but shovels pasta in all day, but hey VEGAN! More like carbitarian.
>>
>>683911334
WOW GR8 COMEBACK!!
>>
I like how this all started because OP basically asked people to confirm his biases.
>>
>>683909257
You need to set ground rules about her swallowing cum.
>>
>>683929802
Spirulina, nuts, oats, seeds, lentils, broccoli, and many more sources. Protein is easy to get without meat. Certain vitamins can be tricky to get without supplements however such as the b12 vitamin. All diets should be supplemented with vitamins and minerals though so it's easy to manage
>>
bite the bullet because you're going vegan soon. pussy game is stronger than any arguments
>>
>>683930380
This is true. It's a law of nature, similar to gravity.
>>
>>683930380
But pussy is not in short supply.
>>
>>683929824
>Google how eggs are produced. Your ignorance is inexcusable.
>implying I buy unethically produced eggs
It only costs me an extra couple of bucks.
But no, since I'm not a vegan I must go out of my way to make sure animals suffer, right? YOUR ignorance is inexcusable you cunt.

>eggs
>not healthy
LMAO
protip: dietary cholesterol has very little influence on blood cholesterol you ignoramus
sat fats are also mostly fine in natural foods, you'd need to eat two dozen eggs a day in order to be in any real trouble

>>683929843
Yeah well I'm not a slope
They also literally eat shit in Africa, what's your point?
>>
>>683930377
>Spirulina, nuts, oats, seeds, lentils, broccoli, and many more sources

This will not provide 250+ grams of protein without either requiring an excessive amount of consumption, or an excessive amount of carbs
>>
>>683909257
>>683912985
yeah its true. Most people who suddenly go vegan get ill, lose serious weight and damage their bodies. the reason is that after eating animal products your whole life, your body is used to animal products and expects them. it does not have the gut bacteria to only digest plant food. The gut bacteria is set up to digest meat and dairy. You cant just switch from one day to the next. Your body and gut has to get used to it and develop the right bacteria for only digesting plants and nothing else. This is why people who suddenly go vegan get ill and literally starve themselves by not getting enough protein. Their bodies are not able to extract enough from plants only. The best thing is to be vegan from early childhood, so then your gut bacteria is set up to digest only plant food.
>>
Vegans are a lot like Christians. They whine and preach a lot and provide fraudulent information to substantiate their claims.
>>
its time to find new girlfriend... this one is broken go find another one
>>
>>683909257
Tell her that if she goes vegan she can't suck your dick anymore.
>>
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>>683930720
Average man requires less than 60 grams of protein daily. Not sure where you got that 250+ figure from m8
>>
My gf went vegan 5 months ago. Not for the animals but cause she wanted to try a diet she thought would be healthier. She lost weight and she doesn't shove it down my neck every second of the day. Pray for this anon. It's the best your gonna get
>>
>meat industry hurts muh animals
as if i give a shit about animals
>>
>>683929966
>It is not a fact

Premise 1: A practice or belief is defined by the consensus or majority opinion of its adherents, or the authoritative body which represents them.
Premise 2: Strict vegetarianism is not a sufficient condition for veganism as defined per Premise 1.

Conclusion: You are not a vegan.

>>683930059
>I don't have an argument, here are some thought-terminating clichés.
Those are meant for you, not me.

Veganism (strict vegetarianism) is overall the most healthy dietary system you could follow: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

>>683930072
Yes, animal protein is more bioavailable and complete than plant protein. Nevertheless, a vegan diet can adequately supply all essential amino acids. Thus, this fact is not particularly useful in determining whether veganism is healthy and moreover fails to prove that veganism is unhealthy or insufficient to provide all essential nutrients for bodily function.

>>683930096
If you consider slavery and forced labor to be employment, then it is reasonable to conclude that you would the pre-Civil War south to be the highest level of employment in U.S. history.

So you're saying that animals do not desire to live their lives as they see fit, as opposed to their lives being controlled and determined by an owner?

>>683930101
You clearly don't know what the definition of genocide it, or its necessary conditions. I take it you also believe in "white genocide", too?

No, nothing I said would entail the genocide, or any other mass culling, of livestock.

>>683929802
500g of textured vegetable protein (TVP) equals to 1650 calories and 250g of protein.
>>
>>683930720
No one, other than elite body builders, need that much protein.
>>
>>683931240
woah tough guy alert. God you're edgy
>>
>>683931364
Your opinion does not equal facts. Accept this and move on. No wonder us vegans get such a bad rap when idiots like you are the public face of veganism.
>>
>>683931412
That's not edgy, that's apathy.
>>
>>683930638
There is not such thing as "unethically produced eggs". "Free range" and "cage-free" are legally empty buzzwords in virtually every country on Earth. Moreover, there is no such thing as ethical consumption in capitalism.

If you are not a vegan, you are directly complicit in the systematic suffering of billions of animals every year. Over 150 BILLION animals are slaughtered every year for consumption. You can watch it in simulated realtime here: http://www.adaptt.org/killcounter.html

You don't have to go out of your way to make sure animals suffer. Just continue eating meat, wearing leather, and buying those "ethically-produced eggs". That's guaranteed to cause and result from animal suffering.

>>683930913
Minimum protein necessary so long as all essential amino acid DRI are met is 30–35g, if I'm not mistaken. Around 60g is the WHO recommendation for minimum protein as a macronutrient.
>>
>>683911920
Dude vegetarians want to be vegan but they just dont have enough will power to stop ingesting dairy and stuff
>>
>>683931533
I just gave you a logical proof. That confirms it as, for all intents and purposes, a fact. I'm not the one who needs to move on and I don't particularly give a shit what opinion you have about me. At least I represent veganism. You're just a moral coward who pretends to be one.

But so be it. I'll "accept and move one". Final reply.
>>
>>683931780
You know you can buy eggs directly from a farm you research yourself, right?

You're a fucking idiot.

>Moreover, there is no such thing as ethical consumption in capitalism.

And what's worse is you're a fucking commie
>>
>>683931947
You have given no proof. Solely your opinion. I am glad you are now accepting this and moving on. It's just a shame it took you so damn long.
>>
>>683931780
Keep your own hens bro, they make good pets and you get eggs.

Also you can eat them when they get old, if that's your thing.
>>
>>683930913
>what is powerlifting/bodybuilding?
>>
>>683911055
Lol yeah we are. Tell you wat I'll stop eating animals when they can argue back on 4chan
>>
>>683932003
Damn right I'm a communist. That's what happens when you study economics and economic theory and proceed to analyze capitalism. Are you saying that you seriously defend capitalism? What are you, a fascist or just a classcuck?

You can "research" the farm all you want, but there is no guarantee that the animals are treated ethically unless you yourself watch over them. Even then, cooking eggs require that you deprive the hens of sex, which itself could arguably be abusive. Given the abundance of plant-based alternatives which are much healthier than eggs, as well, there is no reason to have eggs as a part of one's diet outside of purely for its sensory gratification.

>>683932462
>what is IGF-1 levels
Enjoy having your prostate cancer explode when it begins to metastasize.
>>
>>683931780
>there is no such thing as ethical consumption in capitalism.

Oh boy, here we go. Feel free to tell us an economic system that works better than capitalism, and tell us when and where it happened.
>>
>>683930096

The unites states has been supporting niggers and jews for decades now, does that mean they are a great, morally advanced nation?
>>
Plants don't have nerve endings like we do but they do experience a type of pain.
>>
>>683912406
>your statement makes sense
>but it doesn't because I'm an entitled vegan

Great counter faggot
>>
>>683909469
Listen Faggy McFag, the human being was NEVER a vegan, our body is not equipped for a vegan diet our digestive system is NOT designed to process one type of food, our teeth are not like those of vegetarian animals. So go shove up some carrot up your ass and die slowly of malnutrition.
>>
>>683932620
Yeah man I know what you mean, communist countries are well known for being the most healthy, free, intelligent and well-fed countries in the world.

Meanwhile all those capitalist countries are full of those "universities" and "hospitals" and poor people are still able to get enough food to get fat. Not to mention I can't think of a single capitalist country that hosts elections or has any form of free speech or a free press.
>>
>>683909257
Say you are losing that cock,slip off and hit the table
>>
>>683932620
I'm all for communism but people need a reason to try. Either two tier communism or a yearly cull of the under performing motivates people to not be shit.
>>
>>683912406
>all life is equal

You just ruined the whole veganism argument

Animals and plants are both alive.

So why should I care which life I end in order to eat it?
>>
>>683932620
>what is IGF-1 levels
>Enjoy having your prostate cancer explode when it begins to metastasize.

1) High levels of protein has no adverse effect, this has been proven several times - unless you eat a retardedly high amount of it like 600g
2) Enjoy never being able to lift more than 100kg
>>
>>683932651
>An economic system requires a practical example for it to be coherent and functional.
Praxis is the manifestation of theory. If the theory is both coherent and functional, then its praxis must be.

>>683932926
"Communist country" is an oxymoron. Communism is principally defined as, among other things, a stateless system of social organization. There can be no such thing as a "communist country. You're clearly unqualified to have a discussion about the political and economic theory of communism.

>capitalism
>"free"

>>683932996
Wanting to improve society and enjoying the work they perform are sufficient incentives for labor. No perverse incentives or "yearly cull" necessary.
>>
>>683932620
Just go to China the faggot
>>
>>683933229
> Wanting to improve society and enjoying the work they perform are sufficient incentives for labor.

But you must agree there is a certain proportion of deadwood in any society. In small groups the social conscience works well, but as groups grow and people can hide that's when cracks start to appear.
>>
>>683933197
That is only somewhat true with non-soy plant-based protein, yet even high protein intake can cause metabolic burden: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/126929/

All bets are off with non-vegan protein due to high IGF-1 levels and a lack of binding agents to counteract it.

>>683933230
>China
>communist

>>683933473
No, I reject that premise. Qualities such as laziness and apathy are products of the alienation class-based hierarchical systems like capitalism causes among workers. If workers are not alienated from their work; and they have the free volition to perform work they enjoy without worrying about financial burdens such as the cost of food, shelter, healthcare, and utilities; then there are no conditions which produce laziness and apathy such that it negatively impacts productivity.
>>
>>683933955
>Qualities such as laziness and apathy are products of the alienation class-based hierarchical systems like capitalism causes among workers.

It's by no means a comprehensive study but look at the island with bear grylls. There's plenty of examples of people slacking/being lazy in a totally communist society.
>>
>>683933955
so someone who spends all day painting dicks on the side of buildings deserves to share as equally as say a nurse?
>>
>>683927308
>Bodybuilder
>Doesn't use steroids
Sure.
>>
>>683909257
Let her start vegan. One week later tell her that her pussy smells horrible. Prob because new diet.Sneak tuna juice on her dirty panties if you have to prove the smell. Tell her to stop diet and see what happens. Tell her it stop smelling after she quit diet. Bitches be self conscious about pussy odor. She won't do it anymore.
>>
>>683934140
I'm not familiar with the example you're talking about, but those people are almost certainly products of a capitalist society, so it's only natural that they will exhibit traits characteristic of a capitalist proletariat (or bourgeoisie). It takes time, usually a few generations at the least, for the base to reshape the superstructure.

>>683934235
Why would the person be painting dicks on the side of buildings all day?
>>
>>683934604
>>683909257
This. OP needs to learn how to maintain his gash with gas lighting.
>>
>>683934604
You sir are a bona fide, grade A, class one genius.
>>
>>683934623
It's a tv show where they put like 12 people on an island for 30 days. As an aside it's a pretty good watch.

I'm off now, thanks for not descending into screaming insults.
>>
>>683909257
It is not a bad idea. It is sustainable, and if you do it right, healthy. It is as annoying as a slap on the balls, and you have to live thinking about your diet, that's why I'm not one. But it is not a bad idea if you do it right.
>>
>>683909257
She isn't gonna listen to you until she learns the hard way that being a Vegan is a lot of fucking around and she'll eventually lose it.

The problem will solve itself.
>>
>>683935006
>Intentionally abusing someone you ostensibly love because they make a personal decision which you are too ignorant to understand and too bigoted to find out.
Kill yourself forthwith.

>>683935256
I think I'm getting off, too. I'm tired now and I'm looking forward to my vegan Persian abgoosht and rice tomorrow.
>>
>>683935561
One last question before you go. You're indian, right? I'm just getting a paki vibe from some of your posts.
>>
>>683909573
Scott Pilgrim
>>
Wtf is this tumblr shit. Get it together fgts.

Supporting veganism and shit.
>>
>>683935561
Tried reading all of your posts, if not most.
10/10 quality shit.
Keep it up bro! You've demolished all these betas here ;)
>>
>>683935735
Nope. I love vegan Indian and Paki food, but my ethnic heritage is German, Polish, and Slavic (as far as I'm aware). I live in the United States.

If I werea native Indian, I'd probably type in Indian English, which usually follows British English conventions. With the exception of my logical punctuation, I primarily follow American English conventions.

No idea what gave you the impression that I'm Indian or Pakistani, though I would be curious to know why.
>>
>>683936159
It's okay anon, I was only rusing. I could never give up my tasty dead animal flesh.
>>
>>683936245
Maybe it was your autism that made me think that.
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