>>683658563 I don't argue over tendencies when it comes to the need for political action. There's one thing we can all agree on - the private ownership of capital must be abolished in order to liberate the people of the world. The economic kings must go the way of the political kings.
>>683656700 This is funny because the working class is who really loses with communism/socialism/anything that takes from the earners and gives to the lazy. We are more than capable of taking care of ourselves individually. I want no part of your social "utopia".
>>683660384 And I've literally never heard you faggots say anything in response to it except for,
>b-b-but it wasn't REAL gommunism!
Marx called for a despotic socialist state that he thought would eventually dissolve into a magical happy land where there was so money, class or state. It's fucking delusional and based on nothing but 'muh feels'.
Thats cute, 27,000 Americans commit suicide. 5,000 attempt suicide; some estimates are higher. 26,000 die from fatal accidents in the home. 23,000 are murdered. 85,000 are wounded by firearms. 38,000 of these die, including 2,600 children. 13,000,000 are victims of crimes including assault, rape, armed robbery, burglary, larceny, and arson. 135,000 children take guns to school. 5,500,000 people are arrested for all offenses (not including traffic violations). 125,000 die prematurely of alcohol abuse. 473,000 die prematurely from tobacco-related illnesses; 53,000 of these are nonsmokers. 6,500,000 use heroin, crack, speed, PCP, cocaine or some other hard drug on a regular basis. 5,000+ die from illicit drug use. Thousands suffer serious debilitations. 1,000+ die from sniffing household substances found under the kitchen sink. About 20 percent of all eighth-graders have “huffed” toxic substances. Thousands suffer permanent neurological damage. 31,450,000 use marijuana; 3,000,000 of whom are heavy usuers. 37,000,000, or one out of every six Americans, regularly use emotion controlling medical drugs. The users are mostly women. The pushers are doctors; the suppliers are pharmaceutical companies; the profits are stupendous. 2,000,000 nonhospitalized persons are given powerful mind-control drugs, sometimes described as “chemical straitjackets.” 5,000 die from psychoactive drug treatments. 200,000 are subjected to electric shock treatments that are injurious to the brain and nervous system. 600 to 1,000 are lobotomized, mostly women. 25,000,000, or one out of every 10 Americans, seek help from psychiatric, psychotherapeutic, or medical sources for mental and emotional problems, at a cost of over $4 billion annually.
>>683661691 Then if capitalism proves to infringe upon my freedoms, I'll be pissed off. However private enterprise is the only way to make sure that there isn't a single entity that will ALWAYS have an agenda (government) doesn't take over. Instead, multiple entities are kept in check but allowed to grow and thrive and because of competition will constantly seek to out do each other and thus provide better and better "stuff".
>>683662269 >private enterprise is the only way to make sure that there isn't a single entity that will ALWAYS have an agenda (government) doesn't take over.
It ensures that a single entity - the ruling class - with an agenda - the perpetuation of their economic privilege - will take over. This inevitability is why you have to go through the charade of pretending that government corruption is created within the political system by evil liberal elites of some form (because the suggestion that it's the economically-powerful pulling all the strings behind the scenes contradicts your worldview).
What you think is "socialism" or "communism" is nothing but state capitalism. And there were good historical reasons why the Russian Revolution failed in this way, but that's another conversation.
>>683663097 Libertarians believe in constitutional rights and being left the fuck alone. Anyone should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights or damage anyone's property. This would be best I think
>>683662899 I'm not denying that capitalism (especially here, in America) can run rampant, but socialism and communism is basically the same thing only worse: not only do you have one entity with an agenda in charge of everything, but they are, I guarantee you, corrupt. And system that allows for almost to full control over the economy by the government can and will, WILL be taken advantage of. Because it's run by people, and people are douchebags. A person is smart, people are an unthinking herd that is easily influenced. Both communism and socialism rely solely on faith in humanity, which is the dumbest move you can make.
>>683663530 Oppression doesn't exist. Everyone individually has the ability to do whatever they want unless they're disabled. Your personal bad or good choices are why you're where you're at today. Don't like it? Make better choices. Or ya know, vote for the govt to take from the earners and give to you
>>683662904 An anarchist society does not mean that there are no regroupments of people taking decisions together. It means that there are no representative mandates, driect democracy is mandatory. And if a group tries to build an army to break direct democracy then it will get war. You can also prevent groups of citizens from rebellion with good education and propaganda.
>>683663873 If you want to have an intelligent conversation about this, then you really have to start understanding socialism from some perspective besides cold war American dogma. Socialists don't want to recreate the Stalinist USSR.
>>683664494 Well the principle of direct democracy is that there is no government and that decisions are made by the people, but if the people voted for the end of direct democracy well it would happen and the ones against it would probably leave or it would start a war.
Here's the bottom line you jealous little faggot, Socialism/Communism didn't make my family rich. Competition and a free market did. Some backwoods redneck ranchers that barely finished high school now own some of the biggest dealerships in our state/neighboring states and they did it in a generation. WTF would I want to hear your bullshit about equality and who owns property for?
Anyone, a fucking woman, a nigger, a shitload of asian and indian immigrants (who dominate private business ownership where I live) even your sad, lame, poor family of failures could have gotten a small loan and started selling pickup trucks. BUT YOU DIDN'T. So fuck you. Tough shit. You aren't going to get whats ours. Work harder, pussy.
>>683664478 They're fucking terrible at arguing with commies though. Typically they just sperg out about muh free markets and leave themselves wide open to the whole "Le communism has never been tried!" nonsense.
I will agree that I prefer them to most other political groups, but still.
>>683664911 >muh anarchism will totally work and won't just lead to petty warlords taking things by force because direct democracy later; >if the people vote to be ruled I guess it will just happen kek
>>683665322 That wasn't an argument; that was a deliberate misrepresentation of the aims and ideas of socialism, which are the only terms on which angry white American reactionary kiddies will have this conversation.
>>683665605 I'm just saying he responded with a logical argument deserving of the same in return and you figuratively said "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?" You are not to be taken seriously from this point forward. Btw I'm the guy that just wants to be left the fuck alone
>>683664496 I'll admit that socialism is significantly more tame than communism, but it's still one of those things that's only good on paper. Plus, the idea of equal distribution and "everyone gets a share no matter what" does not take into account that not everyone necessarily deserves those goods. And since the idea of deserve/doesn't deserve is so subjective, you can't really regulate that shit without invasion of privacy or literally monitoring what everyone's doing so that their actions meet some sort of standard, which infringes upon your personal freedoms. Now, in order to avoid wasting time, money, and resources the government has to step in and go all gestapo on your ass. Whereas with capitalism, which mind you is still pretty much ruled by the lower class since that's where the rich guys (BTW just because someone's rich doesn't automatically mean they are just some asshole who got that money through cheating the system, and who are you to say how much money I can have, why are you so concerned over an essentially useless item that only has value because we assign it?) Have to compete with other rich guys and create better "stuff". Now, obviously there just some things that shouldn't be privatized, but that's an entirely different discussion.
I think the best kind of state would be a capitalist one with the government funding a private company and earning profit from it, they would then use the money earned to benefit the people (free healthcare etc). Additionally, the government would loan money to small companies at a low rate and earn money from interest, then use that interest to invest in more small companies; this way inflation is slowed down due to competing companies, which would result in less extremely wealthy individuals that have so much money that they can't spend it all (causes inflation).
>>683665605 Communism was meant to have three key points 1) A natural, not forced, progression from late stage Capitalism, therefor it was needed to have a party to force it through.
2) International brotherhood, when each and every regime immediately began killing their competition in every single country it has been enacted in.
3) Means of ownership transfered to the working class, in nearly each case the means of production goes directly to those in the party, the polical elite. Again, in every case the ruling party elite (Not the party, the people) end up taking the means of production.
Communism is the result of a weak mind and failed upbringing, those who profess to want it should take a leaf from the refugees plight and fuck off to one of the backwards, bread-line countries.
>>683666104 My society is based on me working hard for what I have. Not working hard to pay for a bunch of lazy faggots that have never and don't want to ever work a day in their lives. The people I work with are a team, sure. But if the weak link fails we don't work together to raise them up, we fire their ass and leave them to die and put someone in their place with the foreshadowing of "don't fuck this up kid. You won't get a second chance." This is the best way. And at the end of the day I have taken care of me and still wish to be left the fuck alone
>>683666057 >I'll admit that socialism is significantly more tame than communism
This tells me that you don't understand socialism at all, which is why you continually attempt to argue against a point that nobody is trying to make. A discussion about socialism is not a conversation about "statism" versus individual rights. The goal of socialism is not to transfer ownership of all property from private individuals to a state bureaucracy. If you're just creating capitalism where the state does everything, we call that state capitalism.
Until you're willing to acknowledge the positions that other people are actually taking, there is no purpose in attempting to debate socialism with you.
>>683666624 I'm the guy arguing for capitalism >>683666057 And I think you have a pretty fucked view of things. It's a much wiser investment to help someone if they're falling behind. If they're not reciprocating that help to improve themselves, then yeah drop them. Capitalism doesn't mean being an asshole.
I'm happy to see that feminists and SJW's are joining your cause. We a new face of communism to exploit in the means of instilling fear throughout our corporate mass media outlets. Thus creating a strong right wing base.
>>683666589 Thats where you're wrong. People will not always want to be ruled in dire times. While losing the war against the prussians. A buch of French got sick of their retard warmongering government and formed Paris commune wich was not destroyed because people wanted a leader but because the rest of France attacked them. Even if it was a dire time a lot of people still wanted no leader. The humaun nature is maleable due to our ability to learn desires and behaviors. Do not think every human beings react the same way to dire situations.
>>683667258 If someone was an asshole to you you were probably spouting commie bullshit to someone who actually worked a day in his life and doesn't have time to pay for your lesbian dance therapy degree.
>>683667015 Exactly the same way as Socialism, wealth redistribution. Take the labor of one and give it to another, you sank your own argument you fucktard. This is a screaming endorsement for Capitalism and the free market.
>>683667104 Minimum wage, prevention of child labor and all modern labor benifits came out of the Capitalist system, not the labor union movement as people are want to believe.
>>683667265 The more people like this push, the stronger the nationalist sentiment will grow, America will never be anything other than Capitalist, the world needs it to keep pushing technological advancement and generate the funds to supply the rest of the world. So they can import food when theirs goods die in the field, so they can import medicine for their leaders when the medical leaders flee. By default, America is needed to keep failed Capitalist nations in power because they have a wealthy nation to bankroll them indirectly.
>>683667521 Well, even if they are capitalists, it doesn't take much to paint them as communists when they claim to be one. And so long as terrible people wear your label, it's more than enough to strengthen our base in your opposition.
>Left wing gorvernment attending to the needs of the many while doing a rather lousy job in terms of administration >Right wind hates them with all their might for all the wrong reasons >"stop feeding the poor and teach them how to fish while they starve, it works everywhere!" >economic crisis hits hard thanks to very poor administration + tons of pressure of the right wing + all the corruption you can imagine on both sides >calls for impeachment since day 1 when they didn't even had a reason why >Right wing gains lots of terrain thanks to huge corruption scandals >media (which always supports right wing, no matter what) focus mostly on the left wing, even though every right wing leader is being accused but magically unharmed thanks to technicalities >the wholle thing gets more and more retarded, you can count with you fingers the number of politicians not accused of corruption >Right wing militants go full "comunist conspiracy to undermine ecnomy" mode >Suddenly people are actually calling you a comunist motherfucker for wearing red in public >Deputies prove once and for all that they are either the most illiterate people on politics or just plain stupid >right wing extremist who compliments torturers getting more and more support >Some people think the opposite of comunism is facism >Other people argue that Hitler was a left wing comunist >People think they are fixing corruption but can't explain how >MFW this so retard i can't even find an appropriated reaction pic >MFW i'm mostly ok with captalism and people keep calling me socilist pig even though they are more dependant on services controled by the government than i (they even argue that the state should have more control over said stuff, it's fucking nuts)
>>683666624 Amusingly enough the selective pressures of a strictly capitalist society would probably be incredibly good for genetic fitness over the course of a few generations too. When everyone is taken care of, eugenics becomes necessary to avoid an africa-tier situation.
>>683667692 I'm just happy that tumblr exists, they're the right-wings gift that gives something new to report and be afraid of, even though they're really nothing to be afraid of. I think we need to attack college millennials next.
>>683668266 I work for money so I can buy things I need and want. >humans weren't made to
Grow the fuck up. I worked hard to get where I am and I'm not about to sit here and be reprimanded for that. If you're able bodied and don't have the will to earn what you want then you don't deserve what I have. It has been this way since the dawn of man. You want shelter? Build it faggot. You want food? Kill it pussy. But don't expect to sit at my fucking table and gorge your fat ass without having provided something to the meal.
>>683668266 You could argue that humans were never made to travel space, and yet, here we are achieving our goals. Why don't you go live on an island somewhere by yourself where you can have all the anarchy you want? It'll be just like the movie castaway, except you can think of it as paradise.
>>683669767 I've probably read more of your ideology's literature than you have. Stop hiding behind pseudo-intellectual cryptic bullshit intended to inflate your own pitiful knowledge base and argue like a man.
>>683670425 So that's what communism is all about? Helping criminals be criminals? Because if you're starving there are things you could get. Gosh what are those pesky things... Where you provide a service in exchange for currency? God it slips my mind. There's plenty of them around despite what the media tells you. I'll think of it after the 404
>>683670771 >So that's what communism is all about? >Helping criminals be criminals?
No, I'm simply describing the inevitable end result of sticking with capitalism because everything is fine for you right now instead of transitioning to a sensible form of socialism. When the resources you're squandering run out, the bottom of the pyramid you've created will be coming after you.
>>683670932 not even a gommunist, but the whole, >charity can do everything welfare can! thing assumes a level of social trust and co-operation we simply don't have. It would work someplace like Japan, but not in the US. You'd just end up with a great depression-esque situation with vagrants that all the landed people hate wandering around and starving.
>>683660687 Exactly. There's never been a successful implementation of communism - only fascism / totalitarianism.
That may well be because communism much like anarchist libertarianism relies too greatly upon homogeneity; people thinking alike, aspiring alike, behaving alike. In practice it doesn't work without the same hierarchical class structures it's intended to dismantle.
>>683670692 Read it, they actually have parts saying pretty much what you said, humans not being naturally adapted to space but doing space travels anyway in order to keep a natural agressive form of evolution while also saying that their particular goverment and society model work because it's natural to humans, the fact that the insects are so good at war comes from the fact that their are biologically communists, which would be great for humans if it wasn't unnatural.
For real, the contradictions are very well thought and all in form of veiled propaganda, it's a great book
>>683671066 So we just enable the worst to stay that way in the name of keeping them from revolting and ruining society for everyone. Or, now hear me out, or, we could stop telling everyone that they're special snowflakes(protip:they're not), and tell them at a very early age that if they try hard and apply themselves they will be able to earn everything they need and won't have to rely on the govt for anything except emergency services and infrastructure. I don't know man. My way seems to be more for the people than telling them they can just stay shitty
>>683671267 Despotic socialism was seen by Marx as the inevitable step after capitalism and before full communism. He even outlined the measures that must be undertaken to bring a society to this despotic socialism which he believed would somehow evolve into communism. This is copied directly from The Communist Manifesto;
>"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
>Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.
>These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
>Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
>1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
>2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
>3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
>4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
>5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
>6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
>7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
>>683671777 >8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
>9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
>10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c."
The only one of these that was not put into effect by the Bolsheviks was the first part of No. 8, "Equal liability of all to work" (and even that was very nearly met). All of the rest were met by Soviet law. These conditions were also applied to the PRC, and many other states which called themselves communist before they either tore themselves apart or had to adopt much more practical policies.
It would be correct to say that those states were not communist (as the entire notion of a state being communist is preposterous, since communism refers to the societal absence of money, class and state), but they were very certainly Marxist and the only reason they weren't communist is because communism is literally impossible.
>>683672435 No that's what happens when you have excessive state welfare systems that give overly generously and provide no incentive to work Combined with over the top government policy on regulations of factories, excessive production and environment tax.
>>683671939 Worked for me. I was well below poverty when I entered adulthood. Started smoking weed and not caring. It got worse and worse. Then I found out that if I quit smoking weed and applied myself I would have what I needed. So I quit weed, got a job, went to community college(stfu at least I did something) and now I make more than I need and can afford the things I want. Sure it took 5 years but if I knew it could be like this I would've hit adulthood as hard as possible with better HS grades and better college and have it even better than I do now. I just hope I can get that into my sons head. He's only 1 now. But I hope he grows up to be an earner and not a govt leech so he can provide for his family someday and not have to hope the govt still cares enough about white people to give him the scraps of what this social/communist world is trying to turn into.
>>683672805 Except with the average wages being much higher in Detroit than in Shanghai, and shipping being extremely cheap, there's nothing to stop all manufacturing from going overseas because of the relative cost. It has nothing to do with state welfare systems, those cities only fell apart after the jobs vanished because of you globalist niggers and all the productive people left to find work elsewhere. THEN the state welfare systems propped up a dysgenic system of the dregs, because there were no jobs for anyone to get anyways. There's no reason not to have a state welfare system if you have a little bit of care for you own people and work to keep jobs available to them.
To a Western Communist: Communism is cool artsy propaganda posters, badass antifa protesting the ebil police, books that you've never read but are intellectual according the culture of Communism, Noam Chomsky!, and heroic Soviet marches (even though they are all Czarist).
To actual Communists: Suicide watch, gulags, breadlines, shit military life, shallow graves, wake up-work-eat-work-home-sleep repeat.
Hurray for Communism! Go ahead fight me I'm an ex-Marxist.
>>683673825 I don't even argue against welfare. But the people receiving it should either legitimately need it or are in need of a leg up on their way to finding employment. Not riding that shit like a fucking prize steed that they're proud of.
Ok so what am I if I want as little govt interaction as possible and I believe that everyone at an individual level can achieve at the very least self sustainability through hard work and determination to the point that I believe it shouldn't be my responsibility to make sure very poor person is taken care of because the govt is forcing me but would help out someone I knew personally if they genuinely needed it
>>683675518 It's still not a worthwhile endeavor. Not with my money. Here's a better idea. All across the nation put it to a local vote. Think SPLOST programs. This specific community that you drive through or know of that's in your town gets the vast majority of a +1-2¢ sales tax increase in the form of social programs and benefits. They build multimillion dollar schools and infrastructure this way all the time and it usually gets passed by vote by a landslide. As an opponent of welfare culture I could actually get behind it if it was my community. Do this everywhere and it could help more than "Obama say you buy jayquon college"
>>683676421 And that's the crux of why everyone laughs at your pathetic ideology. You always have an excuse for why it failed and it almost always boils down to "meanies wouldn't let us do communism". The USSR had plenty of war-free years. So did many other communist nations. They still didn't transform into a magic happy land absent of money, class and state. How about you make an attempt to explain how despotic socialism would EVER lead to that?
>>683676586 We didn't invade, we just provided military aid to the White Russians. Same as the brits, frogs, japanese, and other nations.
>>683677548 Nah, the US has done a ton of nasty shit. Mostly in recent years in the middle east. But seriously, the Allied intervention in the October Revolution saw very little in the way of actual American troops in Russia. Hardly anything that could be called an invasion, There were total about 5,000 who didn't just dick around in Vladivostok doing parades and shit. Compared to the 70,000 japanese, for example. Most of the rest of it was just money and supplies being sent to the White Russians. I know propaganda is fun, but words do have meanings and "invade" does not fit here.
>>683678502 I think maybe he hasn't had a job yet. Like might be in college or maybe even in high school still. Mommy probably drinks till she can bear to fuck daddy, who would slap the shit outta junior here if he heard the feefee based bullshit his Carl the Cuck lookin ass son is spewing all over the Internet, and he's in the basement like "muh socialist utopia!!!" Even tho he's got the best computer best house best phone best everything that daddy earned thru capitalism. Wait! I think I broke the code!!! We have this problem with socialists that have never worked thinking just that. Since they've never had to work and everything was provided to them via daddehs money they think if the "daddies" of society keep paying their way everything will just work out! Socialism and communism are just pure jealousy thinly veiled in equality for all. I don't like that you have more than me but I'm not willing to do what it takes to have the same nice things.
>>683680876 Original post: >Other people argue that Hitler was a left wing comunist Your comment: >hitler was left (national SOCIALISM) Anon needs to learn english as much as you need better reading skills
>>683658882 Oddly enough there is a certain duality paradox that you almost touched upon in your statement. It is such that if you abolish the private ownership of capital then the ownership must be transferred to the public. The government is the representative of the people no matter its form. Even the purest democracies are vulnerable to politically minded families creating hereditary dynasties within the system. Therefore within a few generations both the capital and political system will be in the hands of a few familial dynasties or "kings"
That worked out well didn't it... A pitiful band of rebels skimming the cream of the aid they got and handing down the crumbs to the people doing the fighting in the way of ancient and defective weaponry and ammunition. Typical communism.
>>683685115 This is true for people living in anything but a 1st world country. And those lucky enough to live in a 1st world country are too comfortable in their own poverty to climb the ladder, or bring the rich man down since people in 1st world countries care more about their lives than the rest of the world. As long as a wealthy man hands down a dollar to the poor to keep them content, a plutocracy will always be in power. There's a reason why we're transitioning to nations of international multi-conglomerate corporations. Even in the communist countries that declare themselves communists, it's only a matter of time before a corporate fast food restaurant reaches their neighborhood.
>>683666342 >the only actual argument in the thread for the continued existence of Communism The problem here, niggers, is that the Capitalists think too small, with respect to incentives and motivation, and the Communists think too large. Y'all motherfuckers need to meet me in the middle. City-States.
>>683687017 ha are you trollin wit this shit? capitalism really doesn't explain what happened to africa the story begins with imperial powers colonizing and that isnt an economic theory's fault USSR was a colonizer too ya know
>>683687017 >just think of how many childs in Africa die from diseases and malnutrition at this moment, that's capitalism's fault
remind me again how western nations providing at least 80% of the GDP of all sub-saharan african countries makes it our fault when their population shoots past a sustainable number and they have starvation.
remind me how their lack of proper hygiene causing disease is the fault of capitalism
also remind me how all those "People's liberation army" groups going around doing most of the exploitation are capitalist
>>683687338 Not the same anon, but the only way you're going to get any compromise or actual change is at the lives of others. And let's be honest, you're never going to do that because you're no Che. You just wear the shirt, hold a sign, and argue online.
If you want to get things done, you know what to do.
>>683687782 I said not just Africa millions of people die of hunger and they are mostly kids, homeless kids, they dont receive medical attention and they have never go to an school, and they never will. Why? capitalism
Please don't use that kind of vocabulary we are having a decent exchange of opinions ;)
>>683688414 capitalism still doesn't fully explain malnutrition and so forth in Africa. It is a highly fertile continent but agriculture has been wiped out by generations of tribal in-fighting and genocide. They do more to themselves than anything else. All i'm saying is Aftrica is not a good example of why capitlalism doesnt work. A good example would be trade exploitation of Mexico caused by NAFTA or something along those lines but even that argument is fraught with problems because the trade does work both ways to an extent
>>683688438 >Germany, fighting on three fronts, besieged by 51 countries, and dealing with the retarded decisions of the Italians still manages to hold out for five years >USSR barely wins on their front, suffering massive casualties despite having far more soldiers as well as the entire combined aid of the Allied forces behind them shipping in weapons, tanks, artillery, food, etc. >subjects conquered eastern europe to such shitty conditions over the next 45 years that they wholly reject anything marxist or even leftist, even today >2016 >>"lol we won man here's a reminder"
>>683688641 Meh, I'm an an-cap in principle but a pragmatist as well. I know that getting rid of the state entirely will never happen, certainly not in my lifetime. So what I simply push for is liberty. Or does it really not bother you that the state is so absurdly huge that the police constantly shut down children's lemonade stands since they don't have business permits, in some places you need a license to braid hair, or the police freely can strangle you to death in broad daylight because you sold loose cigarettes for 25¢ a piece?
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