They don't give a shit about being provided for. They give a shit of actually being independent, being in control of their lives even if for the worst, and not being a liberal cuck who wants to blame everyone else for their failures in life.
>>683260605 P.s They're provided for by farm subsidies - which many of them also rely on, they're provided for in utilities, which our taxes goes to help install new lines - especially water - especially power and internet in rural areas. Taxes go to roads and other forms of infrastructure they rely on as well - and it goes to public schools and colleges, which their children use and they might have used.
If they used none of those things, sure, they could sit and cry for tax cuts we desperately don't need, but, eh.
Better to be a conservatard and have your laurels, eh?
Look at them. They're dirty, unintelligent, and poor; they're claiming the right to be unhappy but they are somehow a hundred times happier than you'll ever be.
Not to mention the right to grow old and ugly and impotent; the right to have syphilis and cancer; the right to have too little to eat; the right to be lousy; the right to live in constant apprehension of what may happen to-morrow; the right to catch typhoid; the right to die cold and uncared for. They claim them all, because they're better than you for it.
>>683260950 Yeah, no they don't. I grew up in farm country. Those are not farmers, moron. Just because they live in trailers does not make them rural, you retarded bigot.
Tax rates right now disproportionately favor the poor. Lowest income bracket is 10% tax rate, highest is just under 40%, and it scales as you go up. These tax rates DO NOT apply to corporations.
A reduction in the tax rates will of course "benefit the rich" more because a set percentage of $1,000,000 is always going to be larger than the same percentage of some lesser amount.
Lower tax rates allow for more economic growth, which is usually a very good thing for everyone.
As far as minimum wage laws, well, there are two schools of thought. One says they prevent employers from taking advantage of employees. the other says they create price controls and completely remove the lowest segment of the market.
>>683260887 you never use roads? you never speak to anyone who has any education? you never use computers built by people who have education? you never use any medical advances paid for by government research? you never benefit from a civil csociety in any way? what, do you live on an island and post to this forum by carrier pigeon?
fuck off with your "i use no government program" you are member of a society, now stop being a fucking freeloader.
>>683260605 Live in a system where you are actively oppressed by corporations to be an obedient worker bee. Claims the more they act this way, demanding nothing except what the corporations are willing to offer them, the more free and independent they actually are. ever wonder why your life is so shit?
>>683260605 Being independent while slaving away in a shit job all while big business is using every fucking loophole to extort their workers, bend environment regulations and save taxes, greedy assholes stuff their gold-lined pockets with even more money and an agenda is pushed which states that it's other poor people who are the problem, not the before mentioned institutions. The US, esp. republicans have forgotten what being a community means. Your craving for individualism and autarky is driving everything apart, and your serfdom to right wing media is nullifying all common ground there is. You are the problem. You are the people who'd rather life their life drowning in shit while hating on migrants, liberals and the government than even considering that it's excessive, no-limit-capitalism, greed and loss of the value of human life that is destroying the US.
>>683261176 Nigga, if you increase taxes you will decrease the spending of the average citizen and the demand for good and services, increasing unemployment and shit Nigga, Keynes teories and shit, read a book about economy you lib-tard inbred-maggot-sucking mongrel
>>683261135 Jesus Christ...every single thing you just said is completely wrong. Pull your fucking head out of the media, leave your parents basement, and open those beady eyes to the world around you.
>>683261318 You never have control of the market. and more improtatnly, the market will not provide the basic social infrastructure that a society needs to survive - and trickle down economics is a complete lie. Never worked, never will. So further lowering taxes on the rich will not help anyone, but the surper rich. (hell, I only want to bring them back to the level Regan had them at - 80% for the mega rich)
Its very simple my dear anon. Lower taxes means more money for the consumers and investors and that means more growth, which means more goods being produced, more workplaces created and better standard of living for everyone, due to the competition making goods cheaper and getting you higher wages. On the contrary, the money you and the investor would be using, is spent by the bureacrats, which will always be less efficient and lead to non-optimal use of resources. That is something that keynesians (not even mentioning marxists) dont understand, but create a false image of them caring about the poor, and thr proponents of free market not. That is a lie and manipulation (unfortunatelly, faggots like OP buy into it), as the difference lies in proposed solutions, not intentions. I strongly recommend works of Austrian economists such as Hazlitt, Hayek or Mises to better understand why what I say is true. "Economics in one lesson" by Henry Hazlitt is a great starter.
>>683259870 Lower taxes for corperations means they don't have to move out of the country in order to stay profitable, which means more jobs and more employment, which means you don't need high taxes because more people are giving less.
>>683259870 They don't. A lot of Democratic economic positions are popular with the working class. What the working class doesn't like are welfare programs for the underclass, because the working class hates the fuck out of the underclass that lives on these social program.
If you're in the upper classes, you likely can't tell the difference between a member of the working class and a member of the underclass, and so this looks like self-sabotage by a bunch of poor people. But in reality, it's just class signifying at a level you can't percieve
>>683261141 That's why they're racist misogynistic anti intellectual idiots. Because they actively choose to be. Not because this is the most effective way to control them while they're being oppressed, i.e. turn them against every other oppressed group in a system of divide and conquer that keeps the rich insulated against any effective mass movement of lower class people.
They just like fucking they're sister to much to care about anything else.
>>683261964 Who said it doesn't piss the libertarians off you fucking moron? Those corporate subsidies are taken from taxes as well, and since libertarians are opposed to taxes they are also opposed to this.
>>683260887 >I'm not using any roads, water and shit on the streets >I'm not interested in any form of education >most art forms and cultural activities should be luxury goods only available to very vew >historical items don't belong in pulic museums, they belong to private collections >no medical treatments for the poor, they deserve to die for being less successful than others >there shouldn't be any tax when inheriting so there can be new lines of nobility; their sons and grandsons clealy deserve being rich just for being born >...
>>683262069 >683262069 USA spends most of his money on military and shit compensating their small dicks, that's just dumb, why the fuck you need 69 aircraft carriers for? Muslims are still flying into you buildings and shit
>>683261862 "free market" - does not exist in an economy with shareholders and hedge funds (Adam Smith - the ultimate freemarket theoriest condemned the use of shreholders and managers - they are inefficient) also, not all goods can be provided by a market, free or not. those who pretend otherwise are as flase as those who put forward this utterly dosproven trickle down economics model - the rich do not spend and invest and just take on more workers because they hae money to spare - they put it in vbonds and tax havens. Eisenhower had a 80% tax rate on corporations - which forced them to invest and make more jobs - Hayek, is just wrong, wrong wrong -
Taxes are not a punishment from the government, we are not merely tax payers.
We are citizens who founded our own government and maintain our own country, taxes are the way we as citizens pitch in for all the comforts we demand in life, like food, water, electricity, safety and sovereignty.
>>683262112 >They've already mostly all moved out of the country since we sold our souls to the Chinese devil.
Because it's cheaper in those places to own a company. So why not make it cheaper here to own a company you stupid nigger? What the fuck is wrong with your brain that you think because we raised taxes and they left we shouldn't lower taxes to get them back?
>>683262813 some cunt 1/3rd my weight and worked 100th of what i have in my life is getting paid the same amount to sit on hrt and buy dresses meanwhile i cant afford the basics of feeding myself at an adequete level based off the natural genetic predisopotionary differences that government would have me democratically believe are not actually real or schizophrenically non existent as every other cookie cut average man.
>>683259870 Higher tax rates for corporations means higher rates for the working class because it now costs more to ship goods due to taxes, it will cost more for the consumer at the register. This is actually a hint towards "living within your means" and aimed at the government, inflation is all too real and it's also why corporations moved out of the country to find workers they can pay a shit wage to. Cutting wages + outsourcing has been the name of the game since we got greedy after the 50's boys and girls. The stupid hillbillies have a legit point, sadly.
Roads may get built, but trump wants to eliminate the epa. Carbon emissions are one thing but can you imagine the us with no clean water act? Everyone dumping raw sewage into rivers, chemical companies just dumping waste into rivers. Well go back to the 70s when all our waterways caught on fire from pollution.
>>683259870 Because republicans have chucked the middle class for generations. Somehow with a 2 party system, the middle class generally sides with the political party it identifies with from a social perspective - conservative "family" values - rather than the one that supports its economic interests. But what's shocking is that the republicans have actually gotten most of their groupies to believe that these tax/labor structures are actually for the benefit of the middle class. It defies belief actually, but here we are.
>>683264347 The country swings between Democratic and Republican parties. The Democrat wouldn't have the opportunity to effect the economy the way he did without capitalistic tendencies, which is the way it should be. Just like China is communist and moving towards an integrated socialist-capitalism, we are capitalist moving towards socialism. I'm glad your Democrat helped his economy, that doesn't mean democratic tax and spend works more than 50% of the time, which is why we're a two party system.
>>683264845 I agree $15 is too much. National minimum should be around $10. But this doesn't change the fact that republicans never really look out for the economic interest of the middle class in anything other than 'trickle down'. And what has happened with trickle down? Middle class btfo since Reagan.
>Government has been steadily getting bigger since 1900 >Socialist programs have been steadily increasing and being implemented more and more >So, lets EXPAND the government and implement MORE socialism!!
Because the cure for being on fire is pouring a bucket of gasoline over your head...
!. you dont tax a corporation on income because it is not a person.
2. taxing the wealthy who provide jobs helps create more jobs by keeping more money in their pockets, they are more likely to invest in their people and invest in their companies if they can keep their money.
3. Raising taxes does not help anyone, government run programs do not work, the government is ran by a bunch of bafoons only looking out for their own well being. Placing you future in the governments hands is not the answer. Socialist ideas run in cycles, there will always be a progressive movement to "help the people" but the "people" fail to realize only they have money the government only can take it from you.
If you want a good example of how democratic and socialist policies work. Read into the history of Detroit and how it has effected the once greatest city in the history of the US. 50 years of high tax rates on corporations have driven the city into rubble.
Also look back into history when this country was about free trade, and capitalism, you will see that the 1950's where great times to make money in the US, but we also started the war on poverty which has killed the middle class with tax rates that only benefit the poor.
I make just over 70k per year and I pay about 600 dollars a week in taxes.
>>683265647 maybe someone working a super stressful office job and putting more time and effort in deserves a bonus, whereas some greasy asshole unable to get a better job than flipping burgers doesn't.
>>683265910 I don't want socialism. I just think since Reagan cut top tax brackets, the middle class has not shared in the economic growth of the country. The top tax brackets were too high, like over 70% I believe. But they are too low no and the middle class ends up picking up too high a share in the total tax burden. If the middle class had more money to spend because of less taxes, the economy would be in better shape for everyone.
Americans are so retarded they're literally voting for the fags that are so rich that their wallet wouldn't be thinner if the taxes go up to 70%, all the while living like medieval peasants in contrast.Your literally the dumbest voters in the Western World
>>683259870 More money taken from people who actually scrimp and work hard to save > Money given to the government and people who don't do shit
People who don't do shit want higher wages because they don't want to work in manufacturing domestic to help revive our economy the way we have done it for hundreds of years > Government decides to play along, Corporations decide to automate workforce to help pay for food
All that extra money from people who try and all the lazy people realizing they can exploit the system and get even more stuff and benifits continue this steam roll > Добро пожаловать на вечеринку
I went from $19.35/Hr job to a simple one that pays a buck over min wage and I live very comfortably in my own house with my own car at twenty-two. I make or fix my own shit and have learned many ways of making comforts from these "Broke hillbillies". That's why, because our generation is functionally retarded and, honestly, would NOT survive another Great War or Depression.
>>683266304 yes and the 90's were great times, even Clinton was great and I'm about being a constitution conservative. In this day and age though Clinton would be seen as a moderate and more of a republican than a democrat. They are also trying to slander his presidency, which he did do great things.
Also, 80% of us between 18 and 25 can't live without shit like Iphones and internet. They cannot interact or form long lasting bonds. We live in an age where we "Deserve" to have nice things and fancy houses and be rich when that mentality has only arrived in the past six years.
freedom of speech does not mean anything aside from the government not being able to pass laws that prosecute you for your expressions.
seriously, you 12yos need to stop throwing that free speech thing around at each other. it doesn't mean shite to private citizens. a private citizen is under no obligation to recognize your "right" to say things.
also, there is a difference between "free speech expression" and slander. if you say something that is not demonstrably true but critical of your opponent, its slander. and its prosecutable.
>>683262249 Tired of the "roads argument." The roads in the city suck, lost a tire that I have to pay for, and they don't work on the roads until the end of the fiscal year not actually fixing anything.
Rich don't pay much in inheritance taxes. They put everything into a trust fund that is dispersed after the person dies. That tax was made to prevent the middle class from working up to the upper class over generations.
I could go on but I spent too much time on this thread.
>>683259870 they actually get these guys votes on social issues such as fags, mexicans, guns, and religious bullshit. People like this don't understand economic issues. The people the republicans economic policies appeal to are middle to upper class people who are in industries that take a hit from environmental protection shit like construction or business owners.
>>683266875 That face when while there are exceptions, yes I firmly believe everything I have said
I am happy and honestly don't care how you feel. In whatever storm that is about to hit the fan I will be just fine.
Google Early war mass production and 1943 economics. Thinking an old geezer HAS to flip a burger at McDonalds for $7.50/Hr instead of turning bolts all day for $11.50/Hr and calling me a "sinner" for seeing the problem from a different angle is cute, but seriously nothing is going to get better so I don't need these people or these ideals.
>>683266495 Oh yeah man, i'm so rich living in the house my parents payed off when they were alive, working a dead end job at a fucking call center just to pay bills and maintain the house which is falling to shambles. Office jobs can be stressful, especially when you have to deal with idiots constantly, what i'd give for a menial labour job, shame i did my knee in and can't lift shit.
so yeah, totally a rich boy, inb4 "CHECK YOUR WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE!"
>you dont tax a corporation on income because it is not a person.
the supreme court has already ruled several times that corporations have legal standing as private citizens. the irony is, that is what the corporations were lobbying for. they get similar legal protections as an entity, but they get to play the "hurr durr we r businez" card to avoid taxes and penalties.
>taxing the wealthy who provide jobs helps create more jobs by keeping more money in their pockets, they are more likely to invest in their people and invest in their companies if they can keep their money
like Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton? they are job creators and investors? But on a serious note, what more has to happen before you realize the trickle down theory of economics is a Ponzi scheme? Its a serious question. I mean, the airlines using bailout money to issue bonuses clearly didn't convince you. Companies exporting a record number of jobs overseas when the government gave them tax exemptions didn't convince you. Motherfucking Disney IMPORTING THE FOREIGN WORKERS to replace Americans at desk jobs in the US didn't convince you. So what exactly has to happen that would make you start to think this trickle down thing isn't working?
>If you want a good example of how democratic and socialist policies work. Read into the history of Detroit and how it has effected the once greatest city in the history of the US. 50 years of high tax rates on corporations have driven the city into rubble.
wow. just wow.
>Also look back into history when this country was about free trade, and capitalism, you will see that the 1950's where great times to make money in the US, but we also started the war on poverty which has killed the middle class with tax rates that only benefit the poor.
Are you sure it want the fact that WWII was over and America was the only country not bombed into the ground? We were the only working industrial power at the time, no competition.
my question still stands. why do you care how much another person makes if you don't have the job? you say it devalues the higher education, but I'm pretty sure the quality of your career should be more important when evaluating its value.
my question is: Why does someone else have to get paid shit in order for you to be happy with what you get?
>>683267613 dude where i work just came here to the US from Ireland. He got introduced to the 'murican healthcare system the hard way. His wife had a baby and even with insurance his bill was 10 grand. Technically no one can afford to have babies.
South america, Some parts of Africa, Most of the greater U.S.S.R., Switzerland, Canada, Iceland, I could go on. Also we beat Germany before Japan. Europe was already beginning to rebuild before the war officially ended
>>683266794 So, what you're saying is because you paid a bunch of money, you should get more money than someone who jumped right in to working from the time they were out of high school? Experience should count for something in the labor market, but the college education bend has made that mean less these days than it did during my grandfather's time.
>>683265647 Because when their bonuses are raised, nobody was forced to raise them. The companies did it of their own accord, meaning they could afford it. The possible job loss comes when companies are FORCED to pay their workers a certain amount.
>post pictures of destitute socialist countries >"lol look at them fail" >not realizing these countries had international embargos >not realizing capitalist nations did everything they could to undermine the economies there >2016 >mfw I haz no face
>>683268144 we live in a capitalist society. our civilization (the western civilization) is based on individual growth and creativity, and people are rewarded for it with money, social status, and things like a bigger house or nice car.
the only thing that drives people in a western society is the promise of living a BETTER life with hard work
manual labor jobs can make extremely good money...welding for example...20-30+ bucks an hour vs. flipping burgers the difference is welding is a trade that you need to learn and master flipping burgers is not
why do u feel the need to make 15 bucks an hour while a EMT makes 9 dollars an hour working 24 hr shifts?
I'm not a "conservative republican", but shit, this pic makes me want to take a shower. "Hey, I worked, and made $200 today." "Uh, yeah, you need to give us half of that." "Oh, why is that?" "What did you do today." "Um, that's not the point, Bernie is president. You HAVE to." Right. Die.
Will you find a bunch of disillusioned livestock trying to convince you that tax rates enforced through a government (a entity with a monopoly on force) of any kind for anyone and meager wages payed by farmers to their livestock in paper void of practical value is somehow not a modernized form of slavery. If you support any form of government you support slavery. Socialized government programs are no different than the maintenance a farmer provides his cows. The civil liberties your government allows you to maintain are only allowed because they are profitable to your farmers when your productivity is increased. The fine tuning of these illusionary civil and economic freedoms determine the successful of the farmer in question. There is no benevolence in social programs or the taxes which support them. You are a livestock resource that produces based on your susceptible to fear of death. You pay your tax because you know the barrel of a gun awaits your refusal to do so. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>683259870 Sadly, not only in America. There are British chavs are like this too.
There are large sections of working class people who have been so thoroughly duped and deliberately miseducated by the media that they'll work against their own interests and never achieve class consciousness.
And so they subsume their anger into trampling on fellow poor people, other ethnicities, other sexual orientations, and become bewitched with ideas of national solidarity instead of class solidarity (failing to see that working class people in different nations have more in common than the rich and poor in the same nation).
And since political affiliation has the same character as religion, people are very unlikely to change their minds even when you present them with evidence that they'd be better off voting for left leaning parties,
In Orwell's Animal Farm, there's a horse character that diligently obeys whoever is in charge doing all the hard work - if only the horse could understand his own power and exploitation, then it could be free, but it toils away, deluded.
>>683268489 Like what in particular? "Stupid Bullshit" sounds like a stupid bullshit excuse if you have no example. If you are going to say the frivolities of video games, toys, comics, tv shows, movies and the like, then I would much agree with you. However, those are not my vices, unless they are gven to me for free, or if I dig them out of the trash. However, I've been working since I've been in high school. I've not been really given much opportunity to move forward in any good career path. Upward mobility is a myth in the modern workplace. All of my managers were hired from outside the company, with the exception of the one who is the bosses adopted daughter. The lower class needs a way to work into middle class if the middle class is going to recover. This can only happen one of two ways: an emphasis on experince in the workplace being of great value, or a reinvigoration of cheap public scholarships and rent control.
my degree makes me capable of performing a specific set of skills that benefit our society. you flipping burgers doesnt benefit the community or society as a whole. in exchange for me dedicating the better part of 6-8 years of my life to higher education and finishing i get paid more money than a kid flipping burgers.
then make it 9 dollars an hour. honestly, I feel like I don't get along with people like you not because we disagree, but because you spend so much time on /b/ reading falseflag /pol/ threads about "libcucks" that you start to assume false things about my position regardless of what I might have said or not said.
I believe people who work 40 hours a week, regardless of what they do, should have enough money to pay their bills, buy enough food, and save a little money on the side. the whole time we are "debating" this minimum wage hike, we are focusing on party line arguments instead of the real problem; people aren't being paid enough to live.
>>683266782 Wrong McDonald's is a fucking worldwide franchise, they CAN afford it. When I pay for an $8 burger that only costs 3 to make because they're mass produced, I'll say fuck that. They make you believe you're getting a deal just because they have a dollar menu, they cost that much to make so they only make profit.
>>683269674 >thinking the Left cares at all about you, instead of creating a privileged oligarchy of their own whilst destroying the middle class through wild taxation in the name of "equality"... >mfw
>>683269671 And yet if you asked me to make it, you count on it not being poisoned in any way and tell me I'm of less value, not just to society, but as a human being. You know, you take many hings in your life for granted. I do not support Bernie, or any of this "hand it to me on a platter" nonsense. I fucking break myself day in and day out working towards my dream of doing something else. But rent is god damn near 3/4th of my paycheck, and room-mates are fucking leeches. I don't want my world handed to me, I just want a fucking chance to do better. I don't qualify for scholarships, manufacturing has fled my state, and I'm stuck in a college town with no car and no way out through work.
The country should not be like this to someone who works more than 60 hours a week.
>>683269757 im sorry but where did i ever state my political affiliation or beliefs? Ive only posted two times in this thread
> believe people who work 40 hours a week, regardless of what they do, should have enough money to pay their bills
give me an example. should an illegal immigrant make 15 dollars an hour because he cuts lawns? or should a 35 year old single mother be making 15 an hour standing in wal mart for 8 hours a day greeting people?
we have social programs to help the single mother that are run by her community...or we did until the government stepped in.
we also have a way to help the illegal immigrant who is struggling to raise his or her family here...its called entering the country leaglly. the problem is, the immigrant isnt educated and doesnt know a trade skill so he couldnt apply to come here.
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