What's your take on basic income ? Is it a feasible solution for technological unemployment?
>>681316559
might as well see how it works.
I know I have held myself back having to do thing to make money, rather than creating something
>>681316559
It would be great if weren't for niggers.
That's why it would never work in the US.
>>681316559
I like the idea, but it could be abused too easily.
>>681316559
Think about it this way.
There were 319million people living in the US in 2014.
If we give each person in the country 1000 a month.
That comes out to
3.816.000.000.000
roughly 4 trillion.
More than half the 6.7 estimated that the government should spend in 2016.
Where do we get the money from?
>>681317482
The 1% duh
(This is sarcasm)
>>681317474
Exactly
>>681317482
But would children need a basic income? Also, you have to take into consideration that this would replace pretty much all welfare spending.
>>681317791
At what age will it begin? Will a basic income take the place of welfare? Because even people on welfare still need to work, what happens to the people who cant work do they get a higher basic income since welfare is gone?
>>681316559
Are people really too lazy to work and just want to receive money for simply being alive? Thats an awful idea. People need to work for their living. And thats coming from someone whos unemployed who wished he had money coming in right now.
>>681317967
unless they need additional support for medical treatment/disability it'd probably be the same
>>681317482
In theory you wouldn't need a minimum wage if you had universal basic income. It would come from companies. There would still need to be a qualifier, though to prevent widespread niggerdom.
>>681317572
Do they really pay 70%?
Genuine question.
>>681318308
They have more than that percentage of money.
>>681318212
the point is since technology will alleviate the need for human jobs (cutting costs this way is something no business won't consider) it'll create a gap of opportunities versus how many unskilled workers need jobs. it's not a sustainable system when automation comes into full force. it's naive to think more jobs won't be automated.
>>681318308
sounds like a legit number
but it's a shit argument. If rich people were even richer, they'd pay even more than 70%. Does that make it fair?
No it doesn't.
>>681316559
so what you are saying is I owe you a living.
nah ain't going to happen. don't have a job? then say hello to your new career, army grunt.
>>681318398
So then why don't we train people to have the skills to do skilled labor? There's always going to be things that humans can do but machines can't.
>>681318228
So how much is the basic income? Because if it is enough to not worry about money, you wouldnt need to work correct? So the argument that welfare can be shifted around is retarded, because that is not enough money. Is the basic income also based on area of residence? Where i live 1000 a month would work, where i went to uni, it wouldnt cover jack shit. So this brings up the question, where does the money come from? Is it money or vochers for food and housing? Does that mean the government owns my residence or my access to food?
I HOPE that it works, but I'm not sure if it will. I agree with what this guy says >>681318398
Automation of jobs is going to absolutely destroy the job market, and they're going to have to implement something to stop widespread homelessness at that point. This will however make it easier for people that want to earn some extra money to get a job, which would be pretty cool.
>>681318553
Dunno about the rest of the world but here in America they'd rather keep you under the toilet and continue to shit on you
>>681318398
this is your reason? I have a better idea. since YOU won't be needed lets get rid of YOU.
Bucky postulated in the 50s that people already didn't need to work.
>>681318720
You don't have to tell me, I'm currently getting assfucked out of a job. They made me lose my current me and are keeping me from getting another one.
>>681318851
“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”
>>681317791
Estimated welfare spending is 500 billion
.5 trillion
so 1/8th covered.
you're right, say we start your basic income at age 18.
234,564,071 as of 2010.
up from 209,128,094 in 2000.
call it 235 million for easy numbers.
1k per month you have
2.820.000.000.000
def cut the cost down, but the 500billion estimated the gov will spend on welfare in 2016 still leaves you with....
2.320 trillion.
still a full third of the total estimated government spending for 2016.
Still a lot of money to make up for.
>>681318307
And really no incentive to actually go do the shitty jobs that need to be done.
You really think enough people would choose to work their shitty jobs if they made enough to pay for the bare minimums just by existing?
Sure some would take the shit jobs to get the extra money for niceties, but I know a lot of people who wouldn't go back for another second if they didn't have to.
>>681316951
That and the cost of living varies so much state to state. I read the article suggesting this and I think they were saying you'd get $1700 a month in Sweden. Here in South Carolina I could live off that comfortably as a single guy but where I used to live in Maryland I'd be scraping by.
>>681316559
it seems financially impossible, giving everybody free money will bankrupt the country in no time
>>681316559
It may be necessary in order to maintain society once the machines take over all labor and manufacturing.
Automation is inevitable
>basic income of $1,000/month is enacted...
>suddenly cost of living increases by about $1,000/month
^^^^
so... how do you prevent that from happening?
>>681318865
you really should stop smoking the marijuana
To everybody that says all jobs will be automated, i have to say this; there will always be work. Just because it seems like all the jobs will be automated, doesnt mean new jobs wont be made. There are jobs that cannot be automated, and if they were they would still have a human element.
>>681319199
>implying
>>681318618
can't automate a plumber, auto mechanic, and other skilled labor. don't want to get your hands dirty?
>>681318722
this is literally proof that AI disinfo bots are on the internet and are scheming to overthrow humanity.
>>681319313
and that's my point, anybody that wants to make some extra money CAN become a plumber, but the blue-collar jobs that people currently have won't be necessary.
>>681319147
$1000 a month won't do anything
>>681319147
The Libtards will tell you Berine Sanders. But the truth is competition. One faggot raises, the other lowers. Who do you think people will go to? Who do you think will survive. Literally most basic economics but the left doesn't understand.
>>681319313
yeah you can.
"skilled" labor will become nothing to an AI
>>681319402
you could save time and just kill yourself.
>>681319478
sure kid. like star wars don't you.
>>681319402
But what is the inventive to do this work? Have a little extra money? Fuck that youre gonna be busting your ass because you will be like the only plumber
>>681319473
To add, I've seen the success of competition in my own town. The local McDonald's was paying people minimum wage while everyone around them was offering $8-9 for the same jobs. Needless to say there's a sign out at McDonald's now offering $10 starting. It's so basic it hurts.
>>681319263
Plus all those machines need people to fix them and keep them working.
Not to mention all the service industry jobs.
I believe automation is something that could happen.
Possibly even to the point where there actually aren't enough jobs for people.
But I don't see it happening anytime soon.
It will take a massive shift in robotics and AI development to do it.
>>681319635
little extra was an understatement, if you were busting your ass you'd probably be the best in your trade and getting paid a fuck ton. corporate infrastructure isn't going to work unless the corporations pay you, and if you set the price to be high there's not much they can do about it.
>>681319473
To add even more... Let's say both faggots make a deal and decide to raise their prices to the same level. BOOM. CAPITALISM HAPPENS. Now there's a new product being offered cheaper than the original and probably better.
>>681319744
you will be dead long before it happens.
>>681319622
are you contending that AI is not a logical imperative?
For any such system to work, we would need Soviet level border security
>>681319907
I'm living in reality.
>>681319785
Yes but you are the only plumber for miles around, the work to pay better be awesome otherwise why bother?
>>681319862
people actually believe this.
>>681319973
This
>>681319785
>if you were busting your ass you'd probably be the best in your trade and getting paid a fuck ton. corporate infrastructure isn't going to work unless the corporations pay you, and if you set the price to be high there's not much they can do about it.
How is that different now as opposed to with a basic income?
same supply and demand, pretty much anyone can go be a plumber now.
Bust your ass and be good and make bank.
>>681319973
It would be a better use for our military than trying to civilize a bunch of sand niggers
>>681316559
I make 350K a year. Do I get a basic income? if not. Why?
>>681320037
Do you honestly believe we will see the automation of the majority of jobs in our life time? Maybe if we live to be a hundred.
>>681319992
non-sequitur
implying a reality where there is AI couldn't exist.
implying that people aren't actively working to achieve this goal
implying the technological innovation of the past 100 years is going to slow down any time soon
>>681318722
I get mine but since stable manufacturing jobs are being outsourced (look at Detroit) there has to be a solution. unskilled labour has always been with us, this is a very NEW problem
>>681317474
kek
>>681320164
look at the automation of jobs in comparison to the past 100 years
how is it that much of a stretch of the imagination?
>>681320155
You would still get the 350k. If it were wages, one would assume that whoever was paying for you would reduce your wage by the amount it took to cover the basic income, though. Everything else would be additional pay based on the value that you bring to your employer.
>>681319445
it's a subsidy from the govt to effectively lower the cost of living. because paying you is easier than regulating business.
the actual amount doesn't matter. the point was that if you increase everyone's worth across the board, then the economic response is going to be adjust to that new worth.
if you gave everyone $6,000 a month, the cost of living would still go up $6,000.
i'd love to sit here and say, that GM will be able to lower it's wages, and thus lower the cost of it's goods as a result of having less of a payroll burden... but you know it's not going to happen. every business out there is going to try their damndest to take every one of those subsidized dollars out there.
capitalism = corruption
socialism = corruption
fascism = corruption
communism = corruption
government = corruption
deal with the corruption. not the side effects of it. giving everyone money isn't going to fix anything permanently.
>>681320106
The problem with today's society is that people are being forced to do jobs that have no actual purpose. Ask any blue-collar worker what they actually do and it's not much. Even companies themselves are better ran by algorithms. I bet you shitpost on 4chan all day at work (assuming you do work,) and yet you and many others still get paid to do work that could be EASILY automated. And if it WAS automated the companies would be saving money by not having to hire people like you, or any other schmuck to do 'work' which only involves going to an office and being there 9-5.
>>681319635
you can earn a lot being a plumber since it's a skilled profession. hard work but if you wanted to go into that you'd be able to build a successful business
>>681320324
Thanks for the explanation comrade. Now take this commie bullshit back to whichever liberal arts or womyn studies class you got this drivel from.
>>681320289
Maybe, but there are alot of jobs that fall in the automation category.
>>681320182
I think it's a lot more difficult to build machines that are intelligent enough to do the things you are describing than build machines that repeat the same exact task over and over.
>>681319824
Totally untrue. Not only is it outlawed by the Sherman act, but Game Theory exists for a reason.
The only reason it wouldn't work is readily seen in this thread- those too attached to the old paradigm.
>>681320405
Yes but what is the incentive? I can live comfortably without working and spend my time how i want with the basic income. Why make more money and be subjected to more stress?
>>681316559
Good idea and yes, although if I had it my way instead of a basic income it would be a basic living stipend that can only be spent on, well, living. Luxury goods would require a different form of currency that you would actually have to work for, but food housing healthcare etc would all be basic human rights. And people would only really need to work around 20 hours a week max because that's simply how things are now with the rampant mechanization in pretty much every industry imaginable. It just isn't necessary or feasible or sustainable to expect every single person to work 40+ hours a week. Our ideas about work and income are anachronistic.
>>681320486
That's the theory that's applied, but thanks for the ad-hominem
>>681320388
>I bet you shitpost on 4chan all day at work (assuming you do work,)
true. and my boss called me a master at what i do earlier this morning.
my field is art based though... so it can't be automated.
>>681320491
So?
As technological means, and operational algorithms, increase- so will the number of those jobs.
>>681320537
More difficult != impossible.
Imagine if that were the main goal of our brightest minds...
>>681316559
it gonna become a necessity pretty soon, at least to keep social peace, or people will finally decide to go hang the bankers. But we can do better than that. In post scarcity society, there is no reason to keep a monetary model
>>681317482
You can't count 42 million because those are the niggers on welfare.
>>681320916
Or move to the kilowatt dollar ala Bucky.
>>681316559
The Negative income Tax (NIT) is a far better scheme, removal of all other welfare services.
an NIT operating on 50% income tax.
Tax rate of $3000
earn $3000 = pay no tax
earn $4000 = pay tax on the extra $1000
So the NIT:
E.g an Income of $2000 (-$1000 taxable) I am entitled to get half of that (50%) $1000 back ($500) bringing the total to $2500
if I have $0 income i am entitled to half of the $3000 ($1500)
This system beats out the "Basic income" because the basic income is giving money to people who don't need it, it's universal, even if you're earning 30 million a year you'll still be receiving government income, the NIT removes that and you remain with the taxable income above the $3000
(figures based on family of 4)
>>681321237
I like this
>>681320773
well you say that, but art can and IS being automated. Take a look at the attached image. That's Google's DeepDream program being used to input a certain painting's style and then recreate a reference image using it. Something as basic as that is more than what counts as art to most people, myself included.
Other arts like literature and art can also be made by machines, as shown in these articles:
http://www.gizmag.com/creative-artificial-intelligence-computer-algorithmic-music/35764/
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/japanese-ai-writes-novel-passes-first-round-nationanl-literary-prize/
And sure, it may not be that good yet, but novels written entirely by algorithms are already being sold on Amazon, so imagine in the future when your favourite author may be a machine and you won't even know it.
>>681318553
That would be cool except we are currently in a transition point where k-12 is beginning to not be a viable solution to a large amount of people. I don't know how much I support a pay to play economy as far as a decent living is concerned.
Come back and we'll talk when higher education has free public options.
>>681321382
>implying you can build a house on quicksand
The problem is at the k-12 level, that needs fixed.
>>681316559
*IF* it is kept very simple so there isn't a lot of bureaucracy and such, I think it could work, and work well.
>>681318308
Yes, but they own 90% of everything and get a shit ton of tax cuts. Also many of them hide their money or launder. Their inherited wealth far out weighs their income though, and that goes untouched.
American capitalism has turned into a welfare state where the rich coast off of their ancestor's accomplishments and minorities and poor whites stay in the cities or rural areas for generations. The 1% are not real capitalists like their great-(great-great-)grandfathers and any real pro-capitalist shouldn't consistently jump to defend them.
>>681320773
>>681321365
Something like UX design would be harder to automate, but still theoretically possible. Tracking how users try to use an app / website and then changing the layout to reflect that, and then picking the result that pleases users the most. Certain sites already do a variety of this, rolling out multiple different versions of a website to random users and then finding the ones that make the users happiest. This could CERTAINLY be automated with some smart algorithms, to the point where I'm honestly shocked it hasn't happened already.
Certain specific fields like logo design may be better left up to a human artist to create for now, but when machines eventually become smarter and have more input data to work off of it certainly seems like it would be possible to create an entire branding guide for a company based entirely on knowledge of WHAT a company does and focus groups.
I suppose what I'm trying to get at is that everything CAN be automated, it's just a matter of how soon it will happen, and if your job will be one of those that lasts for a while to come.
I'm likely too optimistic about this, but my thought has always been that basic needs are all that should be covered in the amount of basic income. Food, water, shelter. You want to buy fancy shit? Go see movies? Do lots of drugs? Get a job. But if you're fine living life without any of that, you're covered.
>>681319313
Assuming that skilled labor is stuff like art fields, programming, engineering, etc, it sounds like a majority of the fields are creative. If an automated work force were to be introduced, I would assume a lot of people would be inclined to go towards the field they enjoy working in which will then create a huge boom in technology and art.
Like automated plumbing. Now in pastel colors.
>>681316559
You can live comfortably on 6 hours of sleep a day, sometimes less.
8 hours of work, 4 hours of errands/commute/cooking/eating. That gives you 6 hours a day to do whatever the hell you want to do.
What do most people generally do with their extra time?
Sit in front a television or computer screen watching mind-numbing entertainment television.
How about we just encourage people to get off their asses and do something, instead of just assuming that with taking work out of the equation they'll become better people?
>>681316559
fascinating notion... probably would inspires more original thought, with a progressive slant, than capitalism... let alone crony capitalism.
Only down side is soctards that would be edified by not having to question it, that social validation is truth.
>>681321237
So somebody who does work worth $2000 on the job market comes home with a paycheck only $1000 more than somebody who does nothing? This sounds like it would be significantly worse than basic income for those that decide to work.
>>681321777
Blaming your problems on "the 1%" and not the governments welfare is exactly why these problems exist, you encourage more welfare, which encourages higher taxes which bites the working poor in the ass at payday which then creates more poor.
Having the rich poorer while the poor stay poor is not a solution.
>>681317482
BUT! there are only 242 million Adults.
Subtract the 2 million people in prison (their basic income goes to paying for prison, duh)
That is $2.8 trillion
Social Security, Welfare, and Unemployment alone are over $2.1 trillion - if you eliminate the massive staff required for means-tested programs, ditch HUD, section 8 housing progrmas, and such the total spent on welfare and entitle programs now in $2.9 trillion
Doing this would *save* $100 billion a year *NOT COUNTING* the removal of tens of thousands of salaries for welfare admin jobs!
It would probably be beneficial if it is possible. After my brother recently has set himself free from the 9-5 and he admits its weird. The majority of people are so occupied with their jobs, I don't think they would know what to do with themselves if they all of a sudden had all their bills paid for. If you didn't have to show up to your job every day, what would you do?
>>681321954
You didnt read it did you?
>>681322180
Get drunk
>>681322263
yeah, its a scary prospect
>>681317474
/thread /socialism
>>681322200
Income of $2000: total take home $2500
Income of $0: total take home $1500
What did I miss?
>>681322484
I dont find it scary. Id get drunk, probably get back in the gym, hang with my bros, cook real food, maybe get back into writing (for fun, not like now when i do it for work), hell itd be sweet.
>>681322180
Probably do what I currently do, try to better myself by working out, learning new shit, and hanging out with my friends.
>>681322614
I didny read your post correctly. Im retarded, currently posting from the hospital
>>681321495
Well whatever the free public education system becomes, it needs to be adequate to prepare people to make a decent living for themselves. If that means more robotic repair, coding, creative, and entrepreneurship classes then that's what we need to have.
Either way, until free education becomes adequate, I don't think we can wash our hands of people who aren't going to make it when automation and AI begins to really take off.
>>681322180
The same thing I do every day Pinky: try to take over the world!
>>681321954
I don't understand what your question is..
could you elaborate and re-read it first.
the 1500 minimum is not a livable wage, it's designed to be uncomfortable for those on it to create incentive, it'll buy the food but you wont be getting any iphones or an xbox like current welfare recipients.
if the person earning $0 gets $1500 they get a job and then earn $1000 they get back 1500 giving them $2500
if they then get an income increase of $1000
they are now at $3500 so they are taxed on the $500.
a person earning $2000 on the job market would receive $2500
earning $0 with a family of 4 and only receiving $1200 back isn't a good wage lol, the family of 4 earning $2500 is significantly better off.
they're still considered low-income earners being below the $3000 mark, but they have been rewarded for their incentive to work.
>>681316559
remove the delayers and inhibitors from the AT LEAST basic living conditions: safety, body free from physical duress, violence etc. society doesnt need that shit.
>>681321777
>get a shit ton of tax cuts
>still pay 70% of all taxes
>>681322779
Valid point.
Just get a ducking job. Quit being a loser.
>>681322806
>if the person earning $0 gets $1500 they get a job and then earn $1000 they get back 1500 giving them $2500
correction: they would get $500 back giving them $3000 which they pay no tax on.
>>681322806
Assuming that me and my girlfriend never marry and we're both guaranteed that $1500 a month, we'd be pretty well off in our state.
Assuming we need $650 for rent, $300 for food, $200 for electricity and water, $500 for other bs like insurance and such, we'd still have roughly $1350 to do whatever with.
And if we put half of that in a bank and accrue interest, eventually, we'd have a decent sized sum of money.
Too lazy to do the math, but there's a sweet spot where once you hit that sum of money, the interest pays for the bills and everything you get it income.
>>681318398
>>681318618
>>681319313
We WILL end up at a post scarcity economy if you can even call it an economy. The question is how much of a shit show it's going to be getting there. Decisions will need to be made and the government will need to step in.
>>681317474
Who watches TV anymore? Netflix and masturbate
>>681318308
They pay 70% of the total taxes, but they earn 90% of the income. So if they were truly paying their "fair share" they should be paying 90% of the total taxes.
>>681319313
sorry to crush you dreams but...
AI is even going to aid/replace doctors with better success rates than humans it seems, no fucking job is safe in the long run
>>681318308
They don't pay 70% of taxes but the people with 95%+ of the money should be paying 95% of taxes. Poor people spend all of their money, federal and state taxes before they get it, and sales taxes after. That's the difference. All of poor people's money gets taxes multiple times, rich people just move their money overseas. So they can benefit from the American Capitalist System without paying the taxes they owe. See Panama Papers.
>>681323695
As a couple you are only entitled to $1500 as a pair, two people living together under the same roof, not $1500 each.
>>681318308
No. If you win enough monnies, you get to make direct deal with treasury for big tax cut, not mentioning all the loopholes and legal cracks you're already exploiting, not mentionning the illegal methods either
I'm pretty sure I've seen a serious study proving the richest actually pay way less in % of total income than working class.
>>681316559
no
>>681322180
finally funnel my time in political programing and amateur vidya
>>681324450
How would the government know that?
Would they only give that amount to each individual address? Who would be the one to recieve it? If everyone under the same house works, and they each earn $1000, would that be added together and they all taxed on that? Wouldn't that create a money problem for the government if that were to occur?
>>681319744
>Possibly even to the point where there actually aren't enough jobs for people.
are you retarded ? that's already the case, and there is a metric fuckton of useless leech jobs already !
I would literally do nothing but masturbate and browse the net if the government would pay me to do it.
>>681322779
I had my friend play Rimworld for about two weeks and then pointed out the fact they had basically written a program.
>>681323004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbq571QME2Y
>>681317474
We need highly paid governmental taxi services too, you should be able to afford getting around with dignity.
Some folks are fat because they can't walk the 30omeodd miles to the grocery store. So netflix and masturbate.
>>681325092
each person would be required to file a tax return on their estimated income.
you and your gf both filing back at $0 and $0
in order to get the money paid out you would need to list an address for it to be sent to.
two checks can't be sent to the same address.
This could be abused yes, let's theoretically say it's being abused as in your original scenario which has got me all interested now..
let's assume the interest earned in the account, it is going to be taxed just the same as any earned income.
also how long would it take to reach the point where the interest in the bank pays for even a single bill?
1500 a month in the bank for 12 months at a 3.40% interest rate compound interest comes in at $112 total saved at $17,920
So you're not really gaining anything by doing this, you've saved a nice nest egg of money to put toward college or marriage, new car etc, but you've not paid any bills off interest as yet.
this is also assuming for 12 months you
never go out
never buy anything other than food,electric,water,power.
basically you need to budget to the extreme, which most people don't when there's so many things to buy any extra spending reduces the interest.
>>681326156
Now with the 17,920 saved
the interest comes in at $358.
So yay now your foodbill is sorted, but any spending off that $1350 and you'll have to buy your own food, so no going out, no activities other than tv and showers.
it's not really a great scheme, great for saving though if you plan to send a kid to college.
>>681324318
long after we're dead. admit it the real premise of this thread is the belief that you should not have to work. that if you raise taxes on the rich lazy millennials won't have to work.
fucking Bernie shills.
>>681324594
*sob*
>>681327667
you should read 9 chains to the moon. its been proven that mankind doesnt need to work in the manner that they do
Well someone listens to Freakonomics a week late.
>>681321365
that's not creation, thats emulation. totally different.
and just like was mentioned in >>681321865
my field of art is marketing. a computer is not going to be able to adequately create a convincing billboard or newspaper ad that will be able to sell more kias at the local dealership.
a computer will never be able to understand the retardese you get from a typical client that needs advertising services.
>>681328620
>a computer is not going to be able to adequately create a convincing billboard or newspaper ad that will be able to sell more kias at the local dealership.
but that statement is false.
you dont think a computer can manipulate the visual appeal associated with dopamine release, and thus, cocercion?
>>681327882
you should realize your duty to society.
>>681329589
which is to advance society, not work a mindless job a machine can do
>>681329119
Computers, robots, and AI will be able to design, build, ship, market, and sell cars in the near future. Once true bipedal androids with human like interfaces become a thing, literally no job is safe.
If I got 1,000 a month for doing nothing I'd probably be less stressed out and more productive whenever I went into work.
>>681329742
>literally no job is safe.
i dont like this statement because it implies danger if there is no work, lesening work is one of the primary goals of technological development
>>681329119
>you dont think a computer can manipulate the visual appeal associated with dopamine release, and thus, cocercion?
not really, no. there's an interpretive emotional response that needs to be created. in order to make the dealership look trustworthy, better than the competition, and entice the customer to act impulsively. these are concepts an algorithm can't emulate.
besides, i think you're missing the bigger point. a computer is never going to be able to complete a job when it has to deal with a sales person running a dealership that can't form proper sentences and art instruction and easily frustrated and angered when they are asked to put a little effort and intelligence into their requests.
there is a delicate mix of ass kissing and redirection that has to happen on my part so that i can truly understand what the client actually needs based on both their need for an effective ad that sells, and what they personally want to gain from the ad.
there is no formulaic method to that. it's all intuitive human on stupid human communication. there's way more to advertising than just making a picture that people smile at.
>>681316559
Um, you niggers might live in the moment but fuck community, how about retirement. What kind of socialist meme is this?
>>681329992
>these are concepts an algorithm can't emulate.
not true, they already exist as biochemical algorithms...
why cant any biochemical algorithm be reduced to 1s and 0s?
>>681329742
A computer will have a hard time wiring someones house or fitting their plumbing.
trades are the safest bet.
also being the guy that makes the computer,
>>681329676
aren't we special. so what's your plan great one?
>>681330224
the problem is interpretation of stupidity.
a computer can't interpret stupid.
>>681330263
>A computer will have a hard time wiring someones house or fitting their plumbing.
why do you assume that?
it would just follow a set algorithm to do those things...
>>681329742
that's going to happen next week. OOOHHHH NOOOOOOOO!
>>681330545
I can tell you have never worked.
>>681330507
so our role isn't to make life better for humanity?
just to do mindless work?
nice ad hominin.
>>681330525
if humans can interpret stupid, then a computer can.
>>681316559
Little late to the conversation and the thread is too long so it may have been answered already. Do I still get paid to work? Would this affect my taxes? Everyone says "it'll come from somewhere" but in reality it all makes its way back to the average worker somehow.
>>681330545
>we'll just program computers to read minds and use magic. that way they'll be able to do anything.
>>681330793
but i have.
what leads you to a faulty conclusion?
>>681330860
I hate associating with stupid shits like you.
>>681322116
Dayumn anon, that's some fiscal poilcy
>wouldvotefor/10
>>681316740
They tested in it in a city in canada and it does work. the only people that had their employment rates go down was teenagers and pregnant women, exactly the kinds of people who should be doing less work anyway.
>>681330928
humans ARE computers, simply biochemical models.
anything a human can do- a technological analog can do as well. it might not be easy programming a self learning algorithm, but it is possible
>>681330902
it will never happen. this thread is full of Bernie losers crying because their dream of a free life is gone with the wind.
>>681330960
everything you posted.
>>681330969
and yet you utilize no logic to refute the point, simply term it as stupid.
>>681330860
>if humans can interpret stupid, then a computer can.
this is literally art instruction i got from a retard.
>they want to do a similar letter to the one we've done the last 2 months but ofcourse make it look diff. maybe we can do some green for st pat day color. they want to mail to a lot of truck owners so let's highlight a 2012 F150, 2013 dodge ram crew cab , 2010 jeep wrangler for the variables . I will go online and get a price for a ram we can highlight . dates mar 9-14,16-21,23-28, 30-apr4. the 3rd week we need to put closed on Easter Sunday.
this right here:
>they want to do a similar letter to the one we've done the last 2 months but ofcourse make it look diff.
this is what will destroy their circuits.
i get stupid shit like that all the time.
>make it the same, but different
ok mr magic computer man... how do you algorithm that shit?
>>681331153
>humans ARE computers
we aren't binary.
>>681331233
college boy? here I thought you were intelligent.
>>681322116
I think finland is doing this. They are gonna give everyone 10k a year and stop all other welfare programs. There's never 100% efficiency in any organization. Even with a motivated, high paid, well staffed welfare program, there's going to be waste and fraud.
>>681317967
I think 1000 a month is a reasonable basic income. I would shoot for somewhere around $10000 per year that everyone over the age of 18 gets. Instituted as a flat percentage tax that everyone pays into, replacing various forms of welfare like foodstamps, unemployment for the short stretches, etc. We already subsidize people to live and lose a ton of money hiring dimwits in the federal government to handle all these programs, so I see nothing lost in making it really simple.
>>681331426
what is their tax rate like?
>>681331285
minor variable shifts related to time cycles
>>681331344
are you sure?
i like Leary's model of consciousness- it reduces all human thought, and indeed all consciousness, to an original binary (will this hurt or harm the organism?)
>>681331364
the government pays for me to go to class, it even buys my cannabis.
not bad imo.
Great way to kill a country. People work because they have to. Most smart people do complicated jobs because they pay more. No one needs to work except the greedy. Won't work.
>>681331449
so what do you say to those who worked hard and never received this benefit? sorry, is that all you say?
>>681316559
>What's your take on basic income ?
I would support it under certain conditions as a replacement for means-tested welfare benefits in the US. I don't think it should be too high or it will have adverse effects on labor allocation.
>technological unemployment
Not going to happen. Economics is not a zero-sum game. Stop perpetuating this myth.
>>681331690
I'm sorry I guess free loader is a better description for you.
>>681331847
Everyone receives the basic income. You are thinking of our current forms of subsidy like food stamps and welfare and section 8 housing vouchers.
>>681331717
>People work because they have to.
> No one needs to work except the greedy.
Damn, you contradicted yourself in the span of one sentence
>>681322767
>Im retarded, currently posting from the hospital
you can be hospitalized for retardation now?
>>681331537
lowest is 6.5% highest is close to 32%.
>>681331991
no I know what you are talking about.
nice way of not answering my question.
>>681319313
True. Lets see robots take my jobs away.l Its impossible. Its cheaper to pay me to do it instead of pay for maintenance on a machine.
Those drones will never replace delivery.
>>681331926
eventually there will be too many people for the number of jobs available.
>>681332036
he changed lubes
Technology is progressing to the point in which there simply are not enough jobs for how many people there are.
EVENTUALLY we are going to get to the point in which unemployment is so high it will FORCE a basic income for every registered citizen. By doing it now we can avoid the huge shitstorm that 50% unemployment will bring later.
The best part is that I'm saying all this shit, and I don't even support that fag bernie.
>>681332172
well, I don't understand your question, actually.
Those who work hard will receive the basic income. I won't have anything to say to people that never receive this benefit, because there won't be people like that. Even the very rich will get this hypothetical $1000 a month.
>>681318308
Fuck no you autist.
>>681331956
go ahead and comparatively utilize me to boost your ego
i dont mind
>>681331690
>minor variable shifts related to time cycles
are you even trying? that doesn't address anything. 0/10 bait
>>681331690
>reduces all human thought, and indeed all consciousness, to an original binary (will this hurt or harm the organism?)
how does that theory explain the preservation of one's offspring? it doesn't. that theory assumes self preservation is the highest instinct. and it's not. while you may be able to algorithm that some harm is for the greater good... you can't break down the determination to ensure the survival of your offspring into a 0 or a 1.
compassion is more than 0s and 1s. the very nature of it is how we separate ourselves from non sentient species.
>>681332251
there are already are.
that's why cost of living has risen faster than wages.
>>681317474
This won't happen simply because people become miserable if they only do those two things. People are incentivized by "feel-good" neurotransmitters, and they'll actually start chasing the things that make them feel alive.
If you're only watching TV and jacking off, that means you're likely suffering from some underlying psychological disorder.
>>681329982
I agree. The thing is, how are we going to convince everyone to share the benefits? Tech isn't translating to to more free time. It's translating to more profits for a select few. Unless we want mass layoffs and no customers left to buy these products, were looking at a giant cluster fuck of a crash.
>>681318958
You and the other people above:
Basic income could be reduced by a portion of the money a person is earning and eventually decrease so much that it will become a tax if a person is earning "enough". This would reduce the cost dramatically because far less people would need a basic income.
>>681332746
Everyone should be able to reap the benefits of the advances that we make as a society, not just a select few. You hit the nail on the head about one of the underlying principles of universal basic income.
>>681318958
There are no shitty jobs. There are shitty conditions for jobs.
>>681332904
Then what's their incentive to keep working? If I got a 1000 a month but working reduced that then I wouldn't work. I can survive off of 1000 a month with careful budgeting
>>681332904
so... welfare then?
how is that different from the stupid shit we have now?
>>681316951
>wage issues
>let's blame brown people
You eat the scapegoat bait way too easy, faggot.
>>681333105
SJW detected
>work 2 part time jobs to make not even 12k a year
>anons think everyone at 18 should be given 1k a month to wank and fart around
>>681319038
It is only for people who do not earn enough. Basic income will fade by a portion of every $ you are earning. Say at a ratio of 3:1. With a basic income of 1000 $, you would cease to have a basic income at earnings of 3000$ and would start to pay taxes above that. This would reduce the cost dramatically.
>>681333030
someone's gotta unclog the sewers when they get full of shit.
>>681333250
I reiterate then, what's my incentive to work?
>>681333105
Let's praise the noble negro for their strong work ethic and dedication to the advancement of society
>>681333346
This
>>681333095
not everyone will want to live off of 1000 dollars a month.
>>681320360
That is not how markets work. Herpyderpy faggot. Get a grip.
>>681333417
I guess that's a fair point. I'd like to see it in practice so we would know for sure
>>681320360
This
>>681316559
op pic alone has me convinced that its a good idea. but i dont know how economics work and its probably much easier said that done.
>>681333417
You can't just have free money anyway I hate you.
>>681320609
More money. Achieving something. Have a nice Status. Image. Working itself is a human need (doing productive stuff). Not for everyone though. But let those who prefer not to work be.
>>681333417
Precisely, you set it as low as the current amount we subsidize people through all these various programs, and then you destroy all of those programs except for the extremely disabled or those affected by natural disaster. You mandatorily shrink all those departments that manage that shit by half. You save a fuckton of money that otherwise would have been spent on the bureaucracy of keeping people fed so they don't die.
>>681317363
>>681320823
>!=
Holy shit you're a faggot.
>>681317474
Nah. I'd work for self fulfillment. I'd be too bored at home
Look I hate this idea. I think welfare is as it is not that great, giving those who dont need it money and those who do run arounds.
At max I could see this being 250$USD a month at most. Anyone who works at all should make more than you.
>>681321900
But why are they doing it? Because they are used to a live where they have to work at least 8 Hours a day and can not cope with havin spare time.
>>681334107
I bet you dont work now. What do you do? What do you make?
>>681316559
>designed by people who want freebies and handouts in life.
>>681329589
>duty to society
>moves to alaska gets paid to live there
>move to northern canada get paid to live there
Society needs us in these places!
lmao society doesn't give a fuck about you me or anyone. Look out for yourself mate.
>>681334113
>Anyone who works at all should make more than you.
good point here.
250 a month is not survivable though. they will be homeless
>>681316559
>> technological unemployment
You mean the industrial revolution and how humanity didn't need to work anymore because it takes a fraction of the human effort it used to to give you everything you needed to live?
Work will always exist, jobs change. If you're not increasing gdp, you're a waste. I don't see a world where basic income increases gdp. There are better answers to the problems basic income tries to address.
>>681316559
Takes away people's motive to work. If I could have enough to just live I wouldn't ever get a job. Free time is better than being excessively affluent for a huge amount of people.
Economy will always balance out if deficit is avoided. Nothing wrong with handouts, but when state goes into deficit long term, it's an obvious indication that the system is currently unsustainable.
If you then stop giving the handouts and people starve it's just the natural balancing act taking effect. But we're now too deep in to realize it. We need to slowly remove unsustainable handouts not introduce more. Population is already too high worldwide.
>>681332651
But who the fuck on /b/ wants to listen to reason right?
>>681326156
Bad idea. Next. You know shit.
>>681334305
No they will not. Who relies on basic income now?! why would lowering something that doesnt even exist yet have anything to do the people who make no income now?
People are getting by on various methods.250 a month is a lot. It can get you well fed the whole month with a few extra dollars. With such little money to care for you would be very careful with it wouldnt you? use coupons maybe.
People are not entitled to free shit just cause they were born here. Everyone works for what they have and even my earnings are cut all the time cause my benefits and taxes go to other people who dont do shit now.
>>681319145
anyone know the name?
>>681329876
fin
Can we agree that it's possible to have enough money?
>>681332236
>$1000 drone
>works for twenty years with only minor maintenance
Yeah, they'll never go for that.....
>>681334801
Kacy Anne Hill
>>681321777
You are a fucking moron. None of that is true. It's the top 20% who own 80-90% of the wealth. Also, pic related.
Most of the world's (including U.S.A.) billionaires are self made, so there's no need to think of them as spoiled children who inherited all of their money.
>>681334113
But the people who work would also receive the basic income ontop of what they take home. People who work will still make more than those who don't.
>>681334835
How much weight can they even deliver? the average package is around 35 lbs
not to mention the collective weight of bulk and how much quicker it is to just bring it all in a truck
Not even an self driving truck will replace workers. No one is going to waste time on that and would rather have professional drivers.
>>681318553
Good point but most people have the ability to learn a skill/trade and do not. Whether that is from laziness or an unwillingness to do hard/disgusting work (despite the pay), I don't know.
>>681318618
Fucking this. Automation is causing huge sweeping changes to how things are done and the labor capital requirements for doing it. People are going to have to adapt and new markets are going to need to be developed for people to make it.
>>681316559
britfag here. I'm on 6.7 (bout ten bucks) an hour for a 22hr contract, I average 10-50hrs overtime a month, usually on the low end, depending on demand/co-workers who dont want to work (my boss has been off for 6 weeks for... reasons) and if it wasnt for family dragging me around and my various habits I'd be doing pretty well right now, basic wage is where it needs to be, the economy needs a boot up the ass and our government/whatever the hell that is in america are addressing the wrong things, sort out that tipping bullshit definitely but the minimum wage is designed for entry level work and it's just fine as it is
>>681332651
>they'll actually start chasing the things that make them feel alive
This is where you fucked up. Anybody who doesn't need to work a job already knows how this works. Jobs are a distraction from the fact that life is utterly pointless and meaningless. Without a job you see the truth. You can chase meaning but that's all you are doing is chasing. After awhile you realize no matter what you do you are just existing on a dumb rock. That's when you start masturbating and watching tv.
>>681318948
Having a job is simply a modern day representation of hunting/gathering resources. If people do not provide what they need for themselves, why should another person support them? If I can catch more than enough fish to feed myself, should I be obligated to spend all of my time fishing for every lazy cunt with an open mouth? Fuck that. I'm not opposed to changing the system but people can and SHOULD do for themselves. That or kill themselves to decreases the surplus population.
>>681317482
>muh strawman
The issue with wealth that we have now is that businesses, in order to increase profits, will always end up raising prices at some point without raising the pay of their employees. What this does is offload the increased cost of consumer goods onto the consumer who works underneath a company rather than inside of it. Profits rise while wages stagnate. As long as business operate under the mindset that they are not successful unless profits increase, income equality will remain a perpetual problem over time.
If a worker isn't getting paid enough for 40 hours of work per week to address all of their basic necessities and send their children to college, then that job should not be done by a human being. Time is something we never get back, don't ever allow a business to profit off of 1/3 of your life and not pay you enough to live the other 2/3s. This is only compounded by the advances in technology we've made to be more productive than ever.
>>681335491
I agree. I could even work more maybe take some seasonal stuff idk. I do what I know is healthy for me. I got lucky that I love the work I do, and provide a service so I feel accomplished even if it just resets the next day.
>>681319145
OR people could adapt and create new markets (and subsequently, new jobs).
>>681316559
So here is how businesses work. You have an idea, you gather capital (land and equipment) to produce that idea. you hire labor to utilize capital to produce your idea. You invest in more capital to make the idea better. You hire more workers to use your expanded capital. You hire researchers to come up with a new idea. rinse and repeat. then the government steps in and demands a percentage of your profits, a percentage of your wages paid, a percentage of the capital you purchased, a percentage of the benefits you paid, a percentage off the top of every product sold whether you make a profit or not, and you also have to comply with the most complex and difficult system of regulations in the world, which costs you tons of additional labor and money.
then they give it to people who have nothing to do with you at all other than a vague proximity.
If you think that the government can somehow seize enough assests each year to pay everyone not to work, and that system not collapse within said year, you are a fool. Capital and production are the cornerstones of any economy, regardless of whether its capitalist, communist, socialist, or whatever. those just change who controls production, not whether it occurs.
>>681335491
Something makes you happy friend, go do it
whats the worst that could happen?
You're already stuck on a rock
>>681335081
I started doing construction with my uncle at 12 years old. Every summer till I graduated and moved there to do it as a crew lead afterwards. I've never understood the mentality of lazy people or people who won't do certain jobs even if the pay is right. Hard work has rewards. Easy work should earn you the bare minimum(this statement excludes jobs where you had to work hard in college to get an easy job.) nothing is or should be free and you should expect to have to work for it.
>>681336021
I actually get depressed when I'm working adn its too easy. I need to do shit.
I see all the young NEETs on 4chan, they just dont know what to do cause theyve never even tried. They dream theyll be one thing or another, but never seeing the big picture and what they actually can do and still enjoy.
Advice for anyone, you like what you know, doesnt matter how hard it is ever.
You can learn or do any job you try first and learn and get good at it.
>>681335611
>If a worker isn't getting paid enough for 40 hours of work per week to address all of their basic necessities and send their children to college, then that job should not be done by a human being
How about "that contract of employment should not be accepted by a person with those responsibilities."
Low paying jobs are for new entrants to the market. Unskilled labor, teens without bills, immigrants, and people changing to careers they have no experience in.
according to the US census 95% of people in the lowest income bracket leave that bracket within 10 years. Not because the market changed, but because the worker changed. its called income mobility.
>>681335491
I didn't fuck up. You being unable to find a purpose in life could be a symptom of underlying depression/anxiety. Regardless of how unexplained some factors in life may be, this does not mean that giving up and resorting to the lowest level of functioning is the optimal choice.
>>681319684
This. I do support increasing the min wage, but not all at once to $15. That's just stupid. Wages will increase competitively and with the cost of living (well it should, anyhow).
>>681336285
That's good advice. And to expand on what you said and add to the advice, you never know until you try. Don't ever say "I can't" or "I won't" if you haven't even tried
>>681335986
>do something that makes you happy
>get bored of it
>look for something new
>do it
>get bored of it
>looking for something new
>find it and get bored of it
>ect.
>>681335828
They demand a percentage of a businesses earnings/spendings because the businesses are able to function better with infrastructure that taxes pay for.
Do employees use roads to work for this business? Does the business enjoy the protection from the strongest military in the world? What about police forces? Trash collection? These things aren't free, and part of living underneath a government is giving it the power to take care of neutral services that help the entire nation.
>>681336325
No matter how skilled or the responsibilities of a worker, their time is still equally as valuable to them as it is to a CEO.
>>681336771
I volunteer all the time like the Yes man movie. It works out. I sometimes get stressed but i get to recharge at some point and feel so proud of what i've done.
I work 2 jobs I've kept for a while now. I got hired at both at the interview. The first time I said I'd try and the second time I asked the right questions to know how to perform.
>>681336956
Doing it is better than sitting around musing on what it could be
>>681337082
The first comment didnt argue against taxes, it argued against subsidization of all labor.
The second comment has nothing to do with how valuable a person feels he is to himself, it has to do with what he is able to negotiate in exchange for compensation.
The unskilled laborer bring the minimum of utility, and being part of a surplus of minimum utility must compete with other unskilled laborers for jobs that will eventually turn them into skilled laborers and allow them to seek jobs with better compensation.
I have lived on state benefit since 1993. Ask me anything.
>>681322871
What incoming proportion of money do they get? Without that information arguing about how fair it is, is a hiding to nothing.
>>681337082
But once you start getting into various skills and abilities, a worker's time becomes more valuable. Plus at that point you're not just paying for their time anyway. If a person who is worth more can't afford to live on 40 hrs they should change jobs, and shouldn't have a hard time doing it because of their qualifications. If a low skill low value worker has a problem with the minimum wage he should work to achieve the same value as other workers who earn more money and change jobs. But you still gotta work. You still have to try. Minimum wage jobs should have high turnover rates as the workers should strive to do better. Not ride minimum wage till retirement. If a CEO finds value in a worker he will most likely reward that worker with better pay or a better position. At least that's how it SHOULD work. Some CEOs are real shitbags that don't care what's going on as long as the job gets done. Those companies usually produce a shit product and have high turnover rates.
>>681337082
Oh boy, here come the "muh roads" autists
>>681338256
This. Lol. Like they don't get that nobody said we shouldn't pay for things that EVERYONE wants. Not everyone wants to pay people for literally existing
>>681338130
this guy gets it
i remember people used to think in the future robots would do all the jobs and no one has to work. Factory jobs used to be easy as shit to get, now its all automated, only difference is the company is making more money now.
everything is about fucking JOBS now. all this bullshit in politics about "creating jobs" and people are happy that they can work now. They would sooner make artificial purposeless "jobs" before just giving everyone money
guys I wanna be homeless this summer.
any advice?
>>681326156
Show me a bank that offers even two per cent on twenty grand and you'll make me a very happy anon. About 1.3 per cent is as good as you'll get. That interest isn't doing shit without another bubble.
>>681338576
they've been doing that for decades, look up the TVA and new deal. That shit was all about inflating job numbers without increasing production.
>>681338615
Buy a knife and trust no one.
>>681338615
where are you from?
>>681338615
>don't pay rent
Congratulations! You are now officially homeless.
>>681337854
They don't have to compete, businesses who don't pay workers enough to meet the necessities I've previously mentioned should not have humans to do such jobs.
>>681338130
I agree with what you're saying for the most part, aside from the idea that they still have to work despite not getting a fair compensation. The problem I have with this is that the time they spend working for a company could be spent doing any number of fulfilling/improvement activities for themselves. This is why I brought up the value of time relative to that person, because its their life and its the company that wants a piece of it.
>>681338256
>>681338466
It's not about paying for what everyone wants, it's about paying for what is necessary to benefit the livelihood AND progress of our species. Like it or not, there is value in human life that can benefit you even if you choose not to see it.
>>681338913
> paying rent
it means you dont own a home already
>>681338894
philadelphia
>ITT wagecucks believe the government is interested in people working for the good of everyone.
The rich/poor divide has never been greater.
>>681338967
why would I want to live in a house by myself? would be depressing
>>681338650
This dipshit.....
Do u evn invest?
>>681339067
The government shouldnt do shit. Lower taxes and let the rich have their money so they can afford to help their workers.
>>681316559
I think it could create a new employer/employee dynamic where the employer competes for employees instead of the current system where employees are doing all the competing. Which could give insensitive to make better working environments for everyone.
>>681339308
What happened to all those fuckers who screwed up the economy eh? Fuck all that's what. I did not see any news about them being arrested and incarcerated. they are still eating frois gras whilst lounging on their yachts on the French riviera.
Capitalism has led to only those lucky enough to get a break having a happy existence. Most people have shit jobs and shit lives.
>>681338576
This. I have never understood everybodys obsession with abolishing unemployment. Any job that could be done by a machine should be done by a machine. Problem is, the people owning the machines are rarely interested in improving society but rather in expanding their wealth and power. That is why we need more socialism.
>>681338958
the necessities you mentioned do not describe all workers. not everyone who works needs to feed a family of four. and companies cant automate every single low skill job. that alternative isn't viable.
the point is that everyone starts out as unskilled. Then either through work experience or education you acquire skills. it's a process that everyone follows, from the teen with a summer job on up to the CEO, everyone starts at the bottom. trying to automate all unskilled labor doesnt eliminate the bottom, it just shifts the goalposts.
>>681338958
You had me going until you brought up value of human life. There is no value inherently in human life. The only value inherently applied to human life is applied locally. Family friends and such. Real value to the rest of society is earned by making yourself valuable. That being said. If someone is not valuable to society through no fault of their own(disabled, elderly, etc) they should be helped by all means. If someone has wasted their value and become worthless(rapists, murderers, unwilling to provide value) they do not deserve a slice of the pie. Human life is not precious in and of itself and in most cases when worth is not present you would not receive the same value on your life as you put on theirs.
>>681339069
owning an apartment is also a possibility in some places where it's still possible living as a human and not a canned sardine
also a comfy house to live alone in doesnt have to be huge
>>681339308
This
>>681339687
They didnt get arrested because most of them didnt break any laws. They were complying with a fucked up regulatory system that created artificial bubbles. government secured loans made the global recession possible, if it werent for those no company in their right mind would have invested in those securities.
>>681339687
>Most people have shit jobs and shit lives.
Actually the average quality of life is pretty great compared to other centuries. We just complain on a high level.
>>681339572
kek
People who are unemployed should not be allowed to breed. If they have children before becoming unemployed fine. Or pregnant when they become unemployed fine. But what pisses me off the most is people having children WHILE they are unemployed then claiming child benefit (at least that's how it works in the UK) and then have the fucking gall to give priority to homing them over someone who does not have kids.
>>681340340
True as fuck. We all got it lucky, especially to be born in US or what ever country you can be proud of and may be from.
>>681340073
>Human life is not precious in and of itself
Well, that's your opinion. I believe the well being of humans is the most important thing. Of course stuff like protecting the environment is important too but only because it is necessary to ensure the well being of humans.
>>681340834
You're one of the people that gets robbed and thinks "well he must've needed it more than me" types of people aren't you
>>681340242
This
>>681338967
Do YOU own a home, or does the bank?
What happens if you stop paying property taxes?
>>681339308
>let the rich have their money so they can afford to help their workers.
kek, you really believe corporations have your well being in mind more than the government?
>>681341044
Property taxes? You mean subsidized living theft?
>>681340834
>Of course stuff like protecting the environment is important too but only because it is necessary to ensure the well being of humans.
there are too many humans in existence for the environment to handle at the moment. what do?
>>681341184
Neither one have your best interests. Humans are greedy and disgusting
>>681340834
I think he meant individual lives. As in no one person is valuable outside of his social circle without being able to demonstrate that. removing individuals who demonstrate negative value (prisons, execution) is good for the whole. Allowing people who demonstrate low potential for value to fail encourages improvement (poverty), which increases the value of all.
>>681341184
Not that guy but absolutely. The corporation I work for does at least. All the govt cares about is getting my tax dollars and maintaining power. At least the federal govt. you don't get into caring about people till you get down to state county and local. And that's how it should be. The federal govt shouldn't keep trying to be our nanny taking care of us. I can take care of myself and choose to live in a state that has a level of involvement in comfortable with. At least that's how it's SUPPOSED to work
![inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KNjYUIk.png "inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom[1].png")
>>681340340
Yes but it's all relative. We are seeing more homeless people (evictions etc), more food banks. More health problems due to healthy food becoming more expensive and poor living conditions (especially with bad landlords) than many years ago. Some diseases we thought were rare have made a major comeback for instance.
http://www.nia.nih.gov/newsroom/announcements/2015/12/death-rate-poor-health-rise-middle-aged-whites-reversing-trend
>>681341184
Small companys could pay more
big companies can afford to keep giving pay and benefits.
>>681341575
This.
>>681341272
There's plenty of environment for everyone, we just need to switch to renewable energies. It's not too many humans, it's too many idiots exploiting the environment. We're pretty close to solving that imo.
>>681341854
I think we have workable technology right now which would quickly develope if it got the attention it inherently deserved.
>>681335071
lol, nice try faggot. you better go on believing random jpegs you find on 4chan. even a close look at that pic shows you that it is based on half or non true "facts". for example ingvar kamprad was not a fucking poor ass farmer, but a decendant of a family of big ass land owners.
also there should be some common points added like criminality, tax avoidance, copyright infringement and being a general moron.
well one thing is still true - you can make it to the top if you are not a complete idiot. but the way to go from the bottom to the top of the hill is fucking long and you need to be a genius to make it.
if you are a born in a wealthy family (not even billionaires), all you need to do is being not a complete fuck-up and you are fine.
>>681342142
its getting attention, just not by the people doing the exploiting.. because they have no incentive to improve. most of them are operating in a manner that is already illegal, but is not being enforced. Enforcement is the only way to remove exploiters and force innovations to become viable.
>>681342142
If it can't be exploited it won't be developed.
Why do you think the patent rights for the first engine that ran on water were bought up by Ford and Shell Oil almost 70 years ago? Did they develop the technology? No. Against their interests.
>>681342512
thanks to income mobility most families leave thier income bracket for a higher one within a generation, so if you're a poor ass farmer, you're grandkids are more likely to be middle class than anywhere else, and their kids are likely to do better than that. the big picture actually looks pretty good.
