ITT: What are some things a generational ship would need?
>inb4 trees
i mean like actual serious things it would need that most people haven't considered like heating the entire thing once it leaves the relative warmth of the sun.
any anons thought about this at all?
also what about propulsion any fags have any new ideas to throw around? i enjoy theorizing though I'm no physicist.
A way to keep the niggers out
>>676479147
okay true
they would need a way to choose from pure genetic lines
>>676479147
maybe not just the niggers but a selection system would need to be in place hadn't thought about that
Water filtration
Balanced ecosystem
Genetic material in case of over farming of animals or accident
raw materials
Defensive weaponry (meteors and shit)
>>676479492
genetic material is a good one, expound on that. do you mean a way to clone the animals or do you mean like artifical wombs in case they are non-fertile somehow
>>676479681
I think he means dna backups.
>>676479492
also on the balanced Eco-system, should humans take precedent? if they do then how would you go about balancing it with them remaining safely out side of the food chain?
>>676479827
thought so too but both couldn't hurt. but in theory the populations would be so large it wouldn't be necessary unless something catastrophic happened and even then the ship would probably be destroyed anyway.
>>676479827
>>676479681
I mean both, in case of disease, genetic manipulation of existing dna for resistance, over farming would lead to derp-level enbreeding, so diversity would be needed....
>>676480132
that makes sense what about medicines? in such a small population (relative to earths that is) wouldn't bacterial resistances be off the charts to any anti biotics they had?
Cute shemales
>also wiki definition of generational ship for anyone who does not know what one is.
A generation ship, or generation starship, is a hypothetical type of interstellar ark starship that travels at sub-light speed.
Since such a ship might take centuries to thousands of years to reach even nearby stars, the original occupants of a generation ship would grow old and die, leaving their descendants to continue travelling.
>>676479878
I would go with a more native american outlook on the ecosystem, protection of it being the humans job.
Starlost seemed to have a good idea as how the various ecosystems and philosophies could be segregated if desired....
>>676480557
actually i thought about this. do you allow people who you know will not breed? or do you disallow them for being a net drain on the environment?
>>676480417
Again, genetic manipulation might be the answer, in this case the dna of the bacterium.
I am assuming, of course, that the tech would exist
>>676478853
General question for all as well: If one of these ships was revealed tomorrow and you were eligible to get on it would you? even knowing you would never reach the destination?
>>676478853
seedbanks
DNA stores
>teraforming equipments
>100000 probes
>anti-radiation everything
>cute shemales
>sustainable farms
>heat
>>676481062
let us move forward under the assumption we were building one now with only our level of current technology.
A de-centralized power system is a must. not one single big power plant, but multiple small ones with a lot of redundancy. Ditto, water and air factories. the ship should be able to suffer catastrophic and still function.
>>676480818
No no no Anon youve got it wrong. You genetically engineer a third gender that can morph into either male or female, depending on the repopulation needs of the ship. Also will you have a captain?
>>676480818
Breeding and not breeding being individual choices, i would allow nonbreeding people on board, the net gain of their intellect would be benificial
>>676481132
how to heat?
there does not seem to be any real way from what i am imagining besides nuclear power
With our current level of technology, it would take a thousand years to get to near stars. I would wave goodbye.
>>676481321
i assumed a computer would be the captain no one family could hold that position forever and an election would waste resources
An entertainment industry
People would get bored as fuck with the same shit to entertain themselves generation after generation.
>>676481487
that's the idea even with this tech we could do it. a cellphone is the equal of a super computer given enough time.
>inb4 some fag takes that too literally
>>676480674
thanks for the enlightenment. now back to bed, faggot
>>676481709
this is a problem.
detail a way to do this without massively draining resources
>>676481709
Perhaps a rich interactive MMO environment to escape the small world of the ship for a time.
>>676481558
Have a computer handpick the captain. Make an immortal crew society. Kind of like a parliament. Then make an actualy parliament, these three should keep eachother in check. Also what would you do in the unlikely event you came across alien lifeforms?
>>676481908
like startrek?
lets work under the assumption that we are working with only current or past tech.
>side note do we allow brothels? boys will still be boys and we cannot have an entire space ship of rape slaves.
>other side note how to deny women that power? if they refuse to reproduce dont they rule the ship?
>>676481859
every bedroom has a camera that records and uploads anyone fucking. endless amateur porn network
What it really comes down to is this. By the time the generation ship reached its destination, faster, newer ships would have set up a colony a century before it got there. It might even be intercepted in flight and the surviving crew rescued by an FTL ship
>>676482038
i would assume we would keep some stock of general materials to trade technology for raw resources.
aside from that communicate until inevitable conflict.
>>676482259
wtf...
that was actually brilliant
no privacy on a ship like that anyways so why not?
>>676482279
not necessarily but maybe you are correct. let us assume in this theory then that FTL has been found to be impossible in this universe.
>>676480818
Dont allow nonbreeders. You need atkeast 10 thousand people to not have inbreeding be a problem. So i imagine the ship would at a minimum carry ten thousand people, there would not be room for nonbreeders
how necessary is gravity do you anons think?
>>676482434
What if the aliens appeared hostile and didnt communicate at all? And they were completely shapeless, dont seem to have any culture, or build any structures and just drift through space?
Also any conventional weapons you use on them only seem to blast away their shapeless portion, but an indestructable core remains within.
>>676481321
Quit trying to be edgy
>>676482856
you do not need that many people. the smallest viable gene pool is 14 people however we would have many thousands more.
>>676483031
run away?
>>676483133
fuck you he can be edgy if he wants to be. my thread my rules.
>>676483155
14 people would not be enough to have diverse enough genes to protect from sickness and disease. Besides, to preserve humanity you wouldnt be able to pick and maintain its best qualities from the children of 14 people. The females would have to give birth as much as possible with that few amount, and that would cut out the workforce and hurt morale.
do you think bio domes like this would work? or would it have to be more protected? each one of those looks like a very easily broken or cooked by the sun kind of deal.
>>676483031
Space niggers?
>>676482965
holy shit I cant cant imagine how fragile a species with generations worth of atrophy would look. would probably arrive at the destination looking like a different species than your ancestors.
>>676483562
you are correct i was merely stating the minimum for posterities sake. thousands would be more appropriate. if not millions.
The ship would have to have an electric arc-drive so it wouldn't need any fuel. that would give it such a low thrust that it would have to accelerate to the half-way point, rotate, then decelerate to the target. It would have to rotate to make artificial gravity, making it big enough to spin without creating nausea (small rotating wheel would make your head spin faster than your feet...)
>>676483853
good point i was thinking about the logistics of it not about how it would hurt them.
>gravity necessary.
>>676483720
They could work, but i find it more feasable that our agriculture would be done inside the ship and protected using automated hydroponics and rotational planting
>>676483866
this is with current level of tech in the assumption friend but i agree about the spinning to generate centrifugal force so you stay down. however nuclear energy should be efficient enough to move it and to do about 47% LS
>>676483720
Flight path would have to be very carefully calculated and the biomes would need to be covered. In the end i think if you built a larger shell on the outside like OPs pic along with some form of sonar (or a scouter satellite sent to find a safe path decades in advance) it may work.
>>676484687
>>676484283
>>676484112
here is how i would propel it i drew this in paint just now.
as the nuclear blast happens the ship is moving so fast it just rides the explosion along and drops another to accelerate until it is going so fast the explosions cant catch it.
>>676485054
sorry didn't realize i made them all niggers
>>676478853
with proper insulation and containment the heat generated by the things living inside of it could potentially be enough. also assuming math it would need very little propulsion once it got going, which would save on space a bunch
lots of these pictures seem to be of cylindrical ships does everyone agree a cylinder is the best shape?
>gib reasons please.
wasn't there like a thought experiment where technology would continue to advance to a point that we would be able to catch and pass a generation ship half way through its journey?
>>676482593
privacy is a societally relative thing. plenty of cultures lived and fucked in the same room as the rest of their (sometimes extended) family
>>676485404
maybe it wouldn't but it would need to be able to change course easily. stellar bodies would pull on it almost constantly course adjustments and acceleration are a must have.
>>676485556
its always possible anon but why wait? even if they get rescued that's good right? and if they don't well then the experiment is a success when the get there on schedule.
>>676485647
fair enough
>>676478853
Yes.
It's going to need a hull consisting of outer ply's of a soft sealable material covered in nanobots that can work to repair cracks or micrometeorites punctures, and behind that, it needs to be backed up non-Newtonian liquid, which can at once resist and diffuse the energy of those impacts and prevent through punctures to the interior of th ship.
In the very front of the ship, should probably be a large mass of pulverized sand and gravel, because at the kind of speeds it will take to get anywhere, a loose structure of dense, fragmented pulverizable, shuffleable material capable of doing what sand and gravel do best is probably necessary to absorb the continual barrage of everything that ship is going to be plowing through on is journey.
That's my thinking anyway. The rest, up to you dudes.
>>676485456
seriously though is it the end all be all? is it the only workable shape? in theory could you use a sphere?
>>676480557
Haha this. I enjoyed that show
>>676478853
I would think the most elegant solution would be to build the entire ship like an eco system.
Ex: Hydrogen fuel system that produces water as a byproduct. Water used to feed trees/artificial photosynthesis plants(the machine type) which act as the oxygen production and air filters, extra oxygen is fed back into Hydrogen fuel system. Hydrogen can be harvested from livestock as a byproduct of manure and fertilizer used in farming.
>>676478853
Mecha robot suits
>Plot course to farthest known point with least possibility of encountering anything at all.
>Bai bai fuckers.
How long does it take them to figure out?
Place yer bets!
>>676486091
non newtoninal fluid is a great idea actually. (cant have nano bots were assuming this is only our level of tech.
expound more on the gravel.
>>676485655
yeah that why i said with math you wouldnt need it, as all of the gravitational pulls would be calculated into the route. You would probably still need some, if only for slowing down once you reach the destination or making slight course changed from getting hit by stray asteroids or whatnot, but very little.
also bringing weapons would be fucking pointless, if a generational ship encountered a race of space faring aliens under no circumstances would they not get their shit rocked by a single equivalent military vessel.
>>676486216
this much was obvious that's the entire point of the generational ship is to have a functioning ecosystem.
>>676486326
this wouldnt work with our level of tech at all, we cannot even properly shield our ships from space radiation and shit yet, everyone would be dead in generations
>>676486347
realistically the nuclear weapon would be able to do damage to any vessel incapable of literally driving into a star. so i think they could defend themselves fine.
>>676486686
not necessarily.
shielding the ship from cosmic radiation is a must i agree but it can be done. in theory also if the ship was large enough it could survive asteroids and micro asteroids and just be repaired constantly.
>>676480818
I think it's imperative people do not breed.
If we know one thing for certain, the human animal has little to no self control when it comes to breeding. On a confined ship even smaller than a planet,mthey'll run into critical population problems much faster and much more serious than we will on this huge planet, and that will lead to some very ugly scenarios.
Ideally, all the people are sterile. They can fuck whenever they want, socially, but the population size is maintained by computer per resources available, and as new humans are required to maintain stasis, new, engineered human embryos are fertilized and incubated in the lab. Only way to ensure they're not all in reds in a couple generations anyway. ...and realistically, they'd have to be engineered genetically to deal with the reduced gut bacteria liability, the food, the gravity... You're talking about an entirely specialized human race here for the trip to be feasible.
How about culturally? Which cultures are deemed important enough to send on this ship?
>>676486686
the biggest barrier right now i would say is that the ship would need to be extraordinarily massive and we cannot assemble something so large in space.
>>676487142
I could totally see some fallout vault shit going on here. Imagine a ship with a 50/50 Muslim and Jewish population.
>>676486686
This might be total bullshit but I thought they figured out that they could mitigate a ton of radiation just by having sort of a bubble of water around the ship. so basically a hull with a layer of water between 2 hard layers
>>676487101
i dont think it would need to be as specialized as you think friend but maybe i am wrong.
>also do you allow religion of any kind?
>if so only one or all?
>also i think you're onto something with the breeding thing but a different system would need to be implemented that is more fair.
>>676486728
so you're assuming that a single ship generations old with no actual military training would be able to identify, target, and push the NUKE button before the other ship could do the same? and that the generation ship would then be able to evade the other ships of that civilization?
no, its pointless. ontop of the infinitesimally small chance of actually meeting anyone, the generation ship would get its shit pushed in any sort of situation that came to a military confrontation
>>676487537
sorry anon water isn't exactly a good radiation mitigation. lead and concrete are though
>>676487225
sure we can, we definitely have the technology for that already, just not the motivation to do anything of the sort due to cost
>>676487101
population will need to be kept in check for sure, but under no circumstances is engineering human embryos in a lab more resource efficient than just natural human birth
>>676487653
on a generational ship the military would have to be maintained by a computer and it would asses threats of encouterable objects. if it detected another vessel of any kind we were capable of recognizing it would attempt a hail with something akin to the beeping from the movie contact on all known radio frequencies. if the response was negative or hostile a firing maneuver would be plotted immediately and if they were fired upon damage would be assessed and fight or flee would kick in.
>>676487733
i do not think we have the technology available to assemble it in space. we are talking about something slightly smaller than a continent being assembled while moving in orbit.
>>676486326
>>676486686
Well we pull shield them better if weight and cost weren't such an issue. Instead we only shield them as well as required for the lifespan of the vehicle, because anything more than that would just add cost, weight, and more cost.
If we're constructing a truck urge in space capable of making this trip, we'd shield the hell out of it, because it'd be critical and worth every gram. ...which honestly, if we're talking about a massive enough ship, isn't even a notable mass & cost factor anyway, relatively.
Gravel is an interesting idea. Low tech, but basically means your ship is hiding behind an asteroid the entire flight. An asteroid that doesn't break apart and scatter, because it's already broken apart, into gravel, and is contained. Hm.
>>676487537
woah shit i just googled that and confirmed it. thats super cool, you could even make the bubble some sort of water purification system and double up on usefulness
>>676488351
Autocorrect + failure to proofread = jibberish
>>676488179
that is so much weight, space, and resources to commit to such an unlikely event, also there is no way a ship this size would even have "flee" as an option
>>676487506
pshhhh you're thinking too small. build two ships and send 100% of the kikes and mudslime away.
>>676488351
lets assume we add the gravel as a shield.
how do we decelerate the gravel?
say we meet another ship and try to decelerate wont the gravel essentially become million mile per hour buck shot?
provide a way to slow the gravel with us and i think it would be a good idea
probably a good idea anyway but still.
also how does one accelerate the gravel wouldn't it need to be fired out way ahead of us to keep in front as we accelerate?
>>676487916
The inclination for people to quickly breed the,selves a huge population unsupportable by its resources is almost universal, in every society, all throughout history, with only a few exceptions.
How could that risk be less critical than any other measure of resource management?
Well when you reach your destination there is no guarantee that the planet can even sustain you. What if your crops cant grow or the flora and fauna are toxic?
>>676488849
why not? sure its big but if we have the fuel in theory a turn is not out of the question.
>>676488884
Into the sun,
>>676488884
no if you give the mudslimes a ship that big they will just crash it into some alien towers somewhere.
this makes me think though what if we built one for each major religion and sent them out into the galaxy to get them away from one and other?
>>676486098
I'd think a sphere would be preferable. There's no orientation in space so you'd want an object with as many planes of symmetry as possible.
>>676488455
keep reading noob. it takes 20 feet of water to shield as much as 1 foot of lead or 2 feet of concrete. and then you want to drink the irradiated water? pls die b4 breeding.
>>676489112
whoever breeds the most culturally overtakes whoever doesn't breed, people can be trained and sterilized
>>676489071
i assumed the gravel was contained in some sort of netting or whatever to keep it on the ship, once you get to the destination you could a) hit the planet with it to assist in terraforming, add nutrients and biomass or b) just detach it from the ship and let it fly away to help the ship slow down more easily
>>676489918
does the whole centrifugal gravity thing effect a sphere the same way?
>>676489071
Well right, the gravel isn't free-floating out in space ahead of us, it's contained. Think of a huge bucket full of sand and gravel held together by a gelatinous goo, pockmarked with millions of craters from all the impacts, the sand absorbing the tiny ones, the larger gravel absorbing the larger ones, the bigger gravel behind that absorbing any bigger ones whose shockwaves made it all,the way back, and every bit of debris just adds to the big pulverized heap.
>>676490101
>>676490276
that's actually really smart.
some kind of paste like material that distributes force evenly
>inb4 semen is perfect.
>>676479450
>>676479274
what is allele frequency?
what is heterozygote?
what is diversity?
Separate ships for each race. End the racism whining once and for all.
>>676482767
Doesn't matter if FTL travel isn't possible. We'd most likely exceed the max speed of the generational ship within 100 years and catch up anyway.
>>676489071
arks never decelerate to a stop unless they are arriving at the destination. we can steer around, but it will cost too much fuel to be worth initiating trade or diplomacy midflight. so yes, weapons.
>>676490611
does someone want to write up a list of traits that make someone eligible and ineligible?>>676490698
>>676490036
i am not a radiation scientist, but the article i read said that iron and more complex molecules are actually shattered by the speed of the space radiation and add to the destructive nature of the radiation, the simpler the molecule the safer it is.
and 20 feet isnt much on a ship thats the size of australia
also cleaning radiation out of water isnt difficult dipshit
ALSO, it could be used to power the hydrogen powered engines
water is neat
>>676478853
generation ship going where? is this ship in itself the destination or is it going someplace specific?
>>676478853
meme magic
>>676489399
not my towers, not my problem
>>676490101
Yes, the "lord of the flies" scenario is how the dumbest of this species functions here on earth.
If we can do better than our most basic primal behavior to get us all the way to alpha Centauri, we had damn well better be able to imagine a better way of establishing a functional population and social order, & not continue to assume that the dominance hierarchy that worked for the savage chimps and us is as good as it gets. Clearly there are better alternatives for intelligent beings, as demonstrated by the LHC community..
>>676490860
does not matter that much mass would be impossible to move.
but also if it was in there it would completely throw off acceleration and deceleration as it moved forward and back like water in the bathtub when you get it going back and forth.
>>676490907
assume it is going to a planet several light years away.
>>676489805
won't work due to zionism. kikes ruin things for everyone.
>>676479274
>>676479450
>>676479492
>>676480132
>>676480417
Okay, let's have a quick crash course on how evolution works.
If trait A gives a species an advantage over the rest of its kind, then members of that species with trait A will be able to breed more, passing on the superior gene.
If trait B makes it harder for a species to survive, then members of the species will find it harder or impossible to breed causing the genes to become extremely rare or die out completely.
If trait C doesn't give an advantage or cause any trouble, then it sticks around neither growing nor shrinking unless it's commonly paired with trait A or B.
Bacteria evolves, people evolve, almost every living thing will evolve through that very simple process. Bacteria and people are in an eternal arms race as one improves and then the other is forced to improve. Removing bacteria is not an option, some of it is healthy and helps us live, and the rest of it stops the genes that create weak immune systems from taking root and spreading through the population.
Also, cloning is worse than inbreeding you idiots.
Inbreeding = very limited gene pool
Cloning = exact same traits passed on every single time, meaning even more limited than inbreeding.(Note that taking eggs and sperm and "growing" an organism is different because it still draws from the gene pool.)
>>676491010
nigger ur still human when the aliens come and slaughter your whole race because of those mudslimes where will u be? in ur mums basement?
>>676491125
that much mass would be impossible to move anyways lol
what is ice
>>676490249
nope, spheres are for people who can't physics. go buy a gyroscope.
>>676483155
It's more like 160 different people. Some scientist calculated it out in the early 00's.
>>676491324
>>676491400
inretrospect that was dumb of me its already massive should be not that hard to move.
negroid u see what ice does to sidewalks? also how would you keep it cool? everytime you pass anywhere near a hot body in space it would melt and refreeze and wear out the ship,
>>676491569
so a sphere would not work? explain why not? im not suggesting spin the entire sphere on the whole but cut the middle sections into levels and spin them individually.
>>676491091
>LHC
human beings will continue to slaughter one and other until time ends.
there will be no peace as long as i am alive to incite more violence.
>>676484847
This just looks like retarded anime bullshit.
Kill yourself btw.
>>676492155
it does kind of
>>676483746
Wearing their spacesuit down around their ass.
>>676491734
the ice would obviously be kept separate from the rigid parts of the ship, kept contained in some sort of rubberized balloon membrane around the living quarters of the ship, or held in place with forcefields or whatever depending on what tech level we are imagining here
>>676490860
i said lead and concrete, not iron. learn to read. get a diploma. come back when you're 18.
>>676491125
Not impossible, you'd just need androids to capture more and more comets, meteors, and debris, spin them to decelerate but preserve their kinetic energy by redirecting it, until you've got enough mass, then mine it or break it all down on however small a scale you want, use its constituting elements to form the materials desired, construct the ship, and use planetary gravity assists to work it back up to speed.
It's a long-term engineering project, but what is time if you're a nuclear powered construction android?
>>676492241
what would be the optimal uniform?
>inb4 startrek had it right
those things are so impractical and offer literally zero protection
>>676478853
VASH THE STAMPEDE
>>676492388
even rubber would eventually be destroyed keep in mind water is the universal solvent
>>676492460
wot?
>>676483404
Delete his post then OP. You can't because making a thread gives you no power of any sort, you idiot
>>676492347
concrete wouldn't hold up at all, and lead would be even worse than iron for the aforementioned reasons. I accidentally thought you had a slightly less bad idea than you did, sorry
>>676491390
it's a generational ship. i'll probably be dead by then. again, not my problem.
A lot of vents, food stamps, a dictator
>>676492549
There is no such thing as a universal solvent as far as we know. This is entirely bullshit.
>>676492671
it gives me the power to call you a nigger
>>676492404
protection from what exactly?
>>676492144
I think he's referring to the Large Hadron Collider community, which rejected top-down power hierarchy in favor of an amorphous emergent behavior structure (bsically no set structure at all) because it produced more results and more efficiency. It's still being studied by anthropologists today, trying to figure out how the social (dos)order keeps working,
Take a guess.
>>676478853
>Hull, nickle-iron compound from asteroids (very common) used in sectional plates and layered thick enough for radiation shielding
>Power Supply. Thorium reactors produce little to no waste and cannot be weaponized. Reactors will super heat water to steam to generate power, and heat the ship.
>Ecological system... Waste water, sewage, would have to be purified. A part of that process would be to use waste water to feed hydroponic tanks to grow food. Algae tanks would produce edible plant matter, and produce oxygen.
>Water. Lots and lots of water. Water for consumption. Water for fuel. Water for atmosphere.
The over all size would probably be close to a mile long. Most of the space would be storage. Most of the human and animal stock would be frozen ovum and semen, with a small percentage kept alive and well to keep life in balance on board ship. Artificial wombs could be used to grow new animals or humans if not enough "parents' available.
Gravity would be by constant thrust. Ion drive over a long time would get a ship up to speed.
yes, I spend too much time thinking about this.
We have nearly all the tech already. What we lack at the moment is being developed.
>>676492769
fair enough
>>676492549
No one mentioned rubber.
>>676490611
That's all bullshit in the mind of a racist. You can throw that shit at them until the end of time, with citations, and all they use in retaliation is narrow, circular logic that only makes sense to them.
>>676492933
attack?
falling down?
cold?
heat?
water?
>>676492996
They're all white?
>>676493006
there is the potential to mine nearby asteroids and comets for raw materials for repairs and water
>>676491958
>spin middle sections individually
yeah, what you're describing is called a cylinder.
keywords: longitude, latitude, axis, angular momentum
>>676493144
if they need protection from cold or heat while on the ship there is something going really wrong already, i assume they will have a non zero amount of space suits to deal with the rest of those
>>676493006
so you would have all of the ship generate gravity by its forward thrust and essentially have the people walking towards the side of this ship as what they pervieded as forward? am i understanding that correctly?
also i do as well my friend.
>>676491390
Safest place on the planet in my warm neet blankie.
>>676491958
>so a sphere would not work?
Yes it would, >>676491569 is just an idiot. Spheres are extremely durable, stronger than other shapes and would travel well with the proper propulsion. If it works for the ship we're on now, it will work for ships we want to send outward to the unknown.
Something with the area of the moon would be perfect because if you start with a population of 200~ you will need a lot, a LOT, of empty living space when its launched. With what we have now as propulsion sources, it would be tens of generations before another system is reached. And that's IF any of that system's planets or moons are habitable.
It would be a complete waste of time to even plan on building a generation ship without knowing damn well that the destination is life friendly.
Oh, and a way to manufacture mental health medicines would absolutely be essential.
>>676492860
http://water.usgs.gov/edu/solvent.html
>>676478853
>i mean like actual serious things it would need that most people haven't considered like heating the entire thing once it leaves the relative warmth of the sun.
Actually depending on size, crew population and power generation it's more likely that removing excess heat be a realistic problem, not the lack of heat. Objects in space radiate little heat except for thermal radiation since there's no 'atmosphere' to interact with.
>>676490840
nah i just pointed out
>>676492721
they're all bad options for many reasons. but they're still better than water.
>>676493666
It takes the power of Satan himself to strike down such a stupid fucking statement.
>>676492860
>There is no such thing as a universal solvent as far as we know. This is entirely bullshit.
>>676493504
nigger this is not a cylinder
>>676493666
"Water is capable of dissolving a variety of different substances, which is why it is such a good solvent. In fact, water is called the "universal solvent" because it dissolves more substances than any other liquid."
Your use of the term "universal solvent" implied that anything could dissolve in water. That is not true, it is just a good solvent for a lot of things.
>>676493532
well its a thriving ecosystem and people will want to be entertained plus there would be different temperatured biomes.
>>676493285
Nope. Tens of thousands of scientists from every race from every country on earth coming and going working off each other's work, and I star of competition leading to sabotage, it leads to cooperation and even better results.
Turns out, by the time you reach the level of scifag capable of doing meaningful work worth doing at the LHC, your tribal affiliation is to humanity, not your little provincial town, church, cult or country. There's no rule saying you can't be religious, but these tend to be the most intelligent, least religious, least political people int the world.
>>676493610
i agree with you but not because you posted with a picture of neil degrasse tyson
>>676493666
you implied water was alkahest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkahest
>>676493913
its literally called the universal solvent in any highschool chemistry class or even the most basic lab.
>>676493610
Nope. You'd want something with as small a profile as possible for its volume. A cylinder is ideal.
Also building a generation ship the size of the moon is retarded. 100,000 tonnes would be in the ballpark for a generational slowboat at our current tech level.
>>676493922
i intended to mean that it would dissolve a variety of things and that it was most likely a poor material to use.
>>676478853
generational ships are out - too much time, increase the risk of infighting 'human nature' taking effect and you end up with some sort of stellar mad max party.
Embryos - computer controlled test tube babies. embryos kept in freeze/cold storage for longevity, when x years from destination grow populace and provide populace with learning via computer (or better yet direct learning via hybridized brain)
>>676494267
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkahest
that was not my intention
>>676494171
Yeah because most of them are so aspied out they can't even function in normal society.
>>676494352
what logic did you use to reach that number?
>>676494649
Why should they? They're clearly superior to the primates who grow their food and make their shoes?
>>676494352
A cylinder was good in Rama, but in reality, you need a sphere. Especially when doing slingshots around planets and, hopefully, stars to gain speed.
>>676494649
i would agree.
it would not work on a normal human scale environment. in a cold and logical scientific environment maybe but not amongst the average man.
>>676494447
I suppose I misunderstood. Can water really dissolve most rubbers?
>>676495099
water is absurdly destructive and oxygen is crazy reactive
>>676494840
>clearly superior.
negroid who do you think built every tool.
every single fucking object they have ever touched or used.
every tool they have ever even needed slightly for one thing or another.
every ounce of food
every single fucking tissue they wipe cum off themselves with at night provided by the average man.
they are not superior they are smarter.
we support them, so that our future may be a thriving culture as they help us advance.
they need us and they know that desperately.
>>676495099
water given time works its way though just about any rubber or plastic. oxygen is extremely corrosive and it contains large quantities of it.
It couldn't just be a ship. That bitch would have to be like the Citadel from Mass Effect or something, and would have to be inhabited by enough people that inbreeding virtually doesn't happen, and that a few premature deaths wouldn't fuck the entire mission.
It'd have to be a moving colony, not just a science team.
>>676495808
yes that is the entire concept of a generational ship you nigger.
literally the entire point.
>>676494840
Implying these faggots will need some other faggots to plant the space potatoes.
Yeah gee, I can fathom sixty special dimensions and leverage the relationship between energy and matter to send my happy ass to another galaxy, but I can't figure out how to water a pear tree that's been specidically designed to grow in this specifically formulated nutrient rich soil that I engineered for the trip. Someboday plz halp me
>>676495980
The everyman doesn't assume that, only here on /b/ are we big enough losers to think about this shit.
>>676490860
>i am not a radiation scientist, but
Trust me, you're better than this guy who keeps mouthing off at you like he understands anything about radiation physics:
>>676490036
>irradiated water
Sigh.
-actual "radiation scientist"
>>676496260
its literally one of the largest and most pervasive concepts in all of SciFy you double nigger.
any single person who reads scify books regularly has an idea of what a generational ship is.
>>676492996
it's because the LHC project was politically simple. all stakeholders were volunteers (opposed to complusory participation, eg. slaves) with a single agreed upon goal, and only differed on means of achieving it through use of limited resources. once an effective method is shown to produce a <subgoal/milestone>, it is met with concensus approval.
the outside world is complex. most people can't even agreed to pizza toppings. everyone has different goals of killing jews or niggers or cis-scum.
it's not impossible to pre-select a homogenous society for each ship, but the screening process would take years of effort per person. (kinda like the LHC participants mostly having phds of some sort).
>>676486326
>implying we don have technology to make nanobots
Nigga, how is living in 1995?
>>676496447
what do you do for a living?
>>676496487
A sci-fi enthusiast is not the everyman you tart.
>>676496530
we do have that tech but not on the scale were it could be used more efficiently than a man going out and repairing the ship so i dismissed the idea.
>>676494768
Ballpark figures. The tonnage is about that of an aircraft carrier but for a spaceship you can ignore volume/weight and build a longer, spindly vessel for the same cost in materials.
10% mass for hull.
20% for the reactor and main drive (probably way too much weight allocation since a small fission reactor could easily be trimmed to 15-20 tonnes in a spaceship, leaving hundreds of tonnes for fuel storage and the drive)
20% for a shield.
Leaving you with 50000 tonnes for habitation and the rest.
>>676494894
Spot the guy who knows nothing about orbital mechanics.
Firstly gravity doesn't care what shape your ship is. So it's irellevent to matter of gravity assist maneuvers.
Secondly a generation ship would probably ignore all such maneuvers except for when it first leaves the system. The most efficient way will always be a acceleration/deceleration from that point onwards. Flying by a planet works well for a tiny probe but anything significant is going to lose huge amounts of fuel and time which would be better spent just accelerating towards your ultimate goal.
>>676496683
Scify is one of the largest genres of all time and is referenced throughout all cultures in the world and every man looks toward the future at some point. so i would go so far as to say that in general people understand this idea or have some idea of it.
>>676496527
>implying those wouldn't be the individuals representing the best of humanity worth preserving on a generational ship in the first place
Yeahhh. Let's send your uncle billy joebob instead,m and his three thug nigger neighbors, because that's a better representation of how retarded humans can be, and that's really what's important on a generational colonial trip, not sending the ones most capable of solving complex problems and ensuring the enormous effort is a success. Gotta represent! Gotta keep it real!
>>676497002
agreed with your second point.
i think you underestimate the shear amount of time this ship must be traveling. friend you undersized it much to far.
>>676493563
>gravity generated by forward thrust
what happens when we decelerate?
>>676497312
negroid you send them too, were talking about a ship the size of Australia or larger. send an even mix of both so you get experience from all walks of life. that is the best way to solve problems is by pulling from a collective experience pool.
lol'ing at all the fighting on the ship
may we never be allowed on it for if we were we'd be fucked
also
no inbreed plis
i like my cuzin but i aint tryna fuck her
>to all the negroids who say interracial mating is bad
>what is diversity
>what is heterozygote
>>676497520
yeah thought about that after.
probably just splat. or at best go zero G for awhile till you land.
>>676481387
are you fuckin retarded?
>>676497600
No, that's the best way of duplicating the problem we have on earth and preventing improvement.
We are on the ship brothers around our heat source barried from the radiation of space
>>676497781
its a ship so massive conventional heating methods don't seem practical.
>>676497812
there is no improvement friend, they are not better merely because they are more intelligent. each person is capable of great things from the dumbest to the smartest. it is about inspiration and experience. the fastest processor in the world matters not if you are incapable of perceiving the problem
>>676497407
30000-50000 thousand years with our current technology at least. But the the idea of a generation ship is that it should be self sustaining. Recycling air, water and even the bodies of its crew. Assuming you could perfect these systems and leave with a full hold the only thing you're going to run out of is maintenance supplies.
But if you build the ship in the right way then most parts will degrade very little if at all over a timescale like that. This is not a ship at sea, exposed to heat, water and oxygen. It is a silent metal behemoth, cold and isolated, with almost no moving parts or machinery that can fail.
>>676478853
The ship is going to need some sort of nanotechnological wonder goop that can reconfigure itself at a low level. Kind of like the ships in _Forge of God_. The ship will need to have one set of functions leaving the system, a much different set of functions in interstellar space, Yet another set of functions during deceleration, and then a whole nother set of functions in the new system, making ready for landfall. It would be hugely wasteful to bring four sets of equipment for these phases, much better to have a bunch of smart,tiny,tough lego blocks to self assemble into what's needed each step of the way. Not to mention, the uncertainties of what awaits the colonists at the far end of the journey. Once they get in-system, they can use some of this goop to make a goop factory out of comets and astroids, to have as much goop as they need when they land.
>>676498218
its exposed to wrenching gravitational bodies
solar radiation
space debris
etc.
the ship may leave the earth but it never truly left the sea commerade.
>>676493610
spheres wont work for artificial centrifugal gravity, which is what the reply referenced.
>proper propulsion
any shape can zoom through space with an arbitrarily large amount of fuel. if you think we have a power source with our current level of tech that can propel the moon, please i'd like to buy one for my car.
>>676498631
u cant buy hydrogen fusion weapons
>>676493830
>except for thermal radiation
ever read what you type?
power struggles within the ship would consume it in three or four generations
this is complete folly, the most naive of fantasies
>>676493918
looks like a cylinder to me
>>676498898
nigger if you have nothing to contribute leave.
or start posting porn
>>676499119
each circle is another sphere inside couldnt draw that correctly. each sphere spins on its own.
>>676499213
no, i dont wanna
this ship is now about cats
>>676499464
cats would not be allowed on the ship
GOOD NIGHT FAGGOTS GOOD DISCUSSION
>>676499213
>>676499587
god brought me here to take over this ship, now sit down
>>676498455
Gravitational tidal forces are incredibly weak, especially if you're talking something as small as a ship.
Solar radiation may actually pose a problem. See there's a theory that interstellar space is filled with a huge amount of problematic radiation. The theory goes that our own sun's influence is what mitigates the vast majority of said radiation and once a ship leaves our sun's magnetosphere all hell breaks loose. That said its still just a theory since even voyager 1 is decades from crossing that brink.
Space debris, see the 'shield'. Basically a huge umbrella designed to absorb/deflect anything the ship runs into.
>>676498881
Thermal radiation would be a small issue on a well designed generational ship. Thermal radiation is extremely weak when compared to something like wind chill. And since each person is basically a 100w space heater it would be child's play to design a habitation area which absorbed more heat than it dissipated.
>>676494894
what is a point mass for $500, mr trebek?
>>676478853
Dyson sphere type of ship.
Something as close to natural sunlight for growing crops.
Large ehough to hold multiple millions of gallons of water and ability to recycle it.
O2 scrubbers and a large population of greens that devour CO2.
Nucelar powerered, or other.
Ion drives for engines, Generational ship don't need to go fast.
heavy fighting in hydroponics today as the catfancier militants attempt to wrest control of valuable resources
and now with the weather here's jim
>>676478853
My perceived problems with a generational ship is that there are a few problems that we would have to solve in order for it to be feasable.
Firstly, we would likely require cold fusion, or some "next gen" energy, as solar would likely degrade as we got further out, as well as dust buildup, wear and tear might add up.
The ship would have to be able to survive such a journey. Which would mean the parts would likely have to last 10k years at the minimum is my guess. While some of our spacecraft is promising, it's only been out there for decades, not millenia. Not only this, but it would require 0% entropy of resources. Water, air, etc. would all have to be never wasted.
So it would likely have to be constructed out of something "essentially" indestructable.
>>676500019
>dyson sphere ship
>why go to other stars when you can just take a star with you
No way would we waste resources on a ship that we would not see the benefits from. We're just too short sighted.
>>676500138
Exactly, If not on that scale. The sphere desigh would be practical.
>>676500033
thanks frank
today on the ship weather is partly bloody with a chance of death due go extreme violence thats been breaking out in all the worker sectors
apparently theyre a bit jealous of command, research, engineering and security's expanded quarters
back to frank with sports
>>676500098
This, all points to a crazy economy of scale, that would be like sending nyc into the sky, but with 3/4th of it as farmland and maybe 5% of the population of the city? I dunno.
Any oversight in this would result in this segment of the population dying off, or worse. Ex, cancerous materials, inbreeding issues, absolutely proper radiation shielding.
>>676500440
I don't know how you got this in your head but let me state this perfectly clearly.
A spherical design offers no obvious advantages for a generational spaceship and eschews the advantages of other designs.
You guys knoe a dude made a real warp drive right? It works just like a star trek one, pretty much.
>>676500451
thanks jim
in sports, all games have been preempted following the mutiny, but pro baller Fizzle Kadonie had this to say
"i hope that all the janitors get back to work soon so i can go back to pooping in a clean bathroom and play ball. i really miss the game"
ha ha ha, we all do kadonie, we all do.
>>676500673
More likely we would first establish a space-based industry with fuel refining, mining and manufacturing then use that to build most of the vessel.
Simply dragging things out of earth's gravity well is a gargantuan task.
>>676482246
Only men and artificial wombs.
>>676500998
In lighter news, a reeducation programme is being introduced as a measure against militancy on the ship, as Obermeisterfuhrer Kuhn pointed out, "too many deaths will bring the population below survivability quantities."
We sent a team to check out the facilites, security had this to say:
"this is a restricted area, vacate immediately or we will open fire"
>>676500138
>>676500440
>Probably not enough materials in this solar system to build an inhabitable sphere around the sun that will last thousands of years.
> Maybe a frame, but one might be hard pressed to move the sun with that.
> Definitely have the energy to contain it in a magnetic field most likely? But if we "damage" our star, We're fucked. Completely.
>>676478853
To repopulate successfully it requires at least 20 unrelated people. 10 men and 10 women
>>676501793
oh good so we have enough
lol
>>676478853
To successfully populate a planet, you need at least 20 healthy, unrelated people. 10 men and 10 women.
>>676502208
>unrelated
oh shit i have bad news for you... every human came from a common ancestor
Why don't we just submit to the matrix where we could live out our lives at many times the speed of the normal life and do anything we wanted to in the bubble of the internet? Isn't this the ultimate fate of the human race that we're headed to anyways?
>>676502418
It's meant by no immediate family or 1st cousins
>>676502512
but we want to go to all the hilariously dangerous junk out in space for some reason
>>676501003
Send the hard to get shit up in parts, But the astroid belt could be extremely lucrative.
>>676502553
shoulda meant it hard enough to type it then
>>676502512
why not both?
what if we're already on a generational ship right now and this world is us in stasis.
you think that's air you're breathing?
>>676501499
wait what? why is the captain a german jew? does this mean we're back to exiling jews?
>>676479089
Anger powered rockets.
>>676503113
hes not really he thought it sounded cool so he started calling himself that when he took over during the last war which resulted in the expanded quarters that precipitated this war
>>676503113
>>676503534
its all in the secret history books that were spaced at the same time as the last captain
Moving such a massive object would be a pain in the ass really, especially if you wanted it to go at any sort of reasonable speed. Using fantasy bull to acquire easy warp travel or something is probably less of a pain.
>>676503777
Like this?
>>676479089
Something slow burning like a magnetically powered ion drive would save on space for fuel/maintenance supplies.
That said if the generation ship had ice mining capabilities then water vapour could possibly be a fuel source. Basically a steam powered spaceship.
Or if you wanted to go full space empire build a shitload of mirrors in orbit around earth and point them at the ass of your ship to make it accelerate via photon pressure without having to bring an engine/fuel (well you'd still need an engine to slow down but this way you're mitigating 50% of your fuel/engine needs).
>>676504081
Perhaps a bit more Sci-Fi to at least have suspension of disbelief, but yeah.
Mfw they're launching earth as a generational ship currently and all meaningless media topical debates will keep us distracted long enough to reach nearby stars.
>>676504118
>>676504118
Ion drive would work but be absurdly slow to the point of no reason of moving. You wouldn't be able to create enough vapor likely to create sustained movement. For the last one, I would have a list of problems.
>>676504118
Wait what about mirrors? Fuck this I'm going to sleep.
>>676504333
distracting us while destroying the ship for nicer quarters more like
>>676504333
trips trips of truth
u have foretold our history anon b happy
>>676504586
fancy new particle beam propulsion method
>>676478853
artificial programmable women
>>676496447
why don't you go for a swim at your local nuclear power plant?
a baseball diamond you can put in your back pocket
just add water
Ship needs to be conscious
17 turtles of varying temperment
>>676504826
>inb4
"Hey guys look at that shiny fireball in the distance! It's so shiny, I wanna touch it!"
>>676504946
daisy.... daisy.... give me... your... an...swer...dooooo
>>676504425
The trip is already going to take millennium. But I agree that current conventional ion drives would have to be scaled up many times in size and power to be considered.
The last one is both problematic and enticing. Of course you need to be able to build and maintain a fleet of reflective satellites in the solar system. Then there's the added problem of building a suitable 'sail' on your ship to capture the momentum without your ship going up like a bug under a magnifying glass. Then there's the problem where you need thousands of square kilometers of captured light for even megre acceleration.
But it does have its advantages. Firstly it removes the need for having an acceleration engine on the ship itself which would simplify things greatly. Secondly you might be able to launch the ship and then decrease its travel time by building more mirrors after the fact. Meaning that the ship could benefit from increased technology as time goes on (the main problem with any interstellar slowboat).
>>676504946
punchline plagiarized from xkcd
>>676505118
oh no i hope the principal doesnt find out
>>676505118
Is it? I was more of going for the "insect flies into bug zapper" but I wouldn't be surprised.
>>676481275
This x10.
I'm personally fond of the idea of a ship able to split into multiple smaller ships and reform with any other parts. Not sure if this would be sustainable or work.
janitor militant here
fun thread, when society collapses the next time ill think about you guys
see you at the next mutiny
>>676485054
>>676485252
Here, I fixed it for you.
>>676478853
Well you need oxygen, heat, water and food.
as heat you could use the excess heat or unused electricity from your propulsion system like, for example, a fusion powered arcjet.
To have enough water you would need to recycle everything and have enough stored that you could compensate potential hull breaches. the same goes for oxygen. you would need oxygen recyclers that break CO2 back to carbon and oxygen. the carbon could be used to create food. of course that would all require massive amounts of energy. Alternatively it could be designed like OP's pic with trees and plants but i wouldnt trust that, i'd rely more on technology that works mostly automated and has multiple failsaves and backups.
For all Germans ITT, there are actually multiple "Perry Rhodan" stories that take place on such generational ships. pretty good read imo
>>676504826
Interesting . Maybe if it consumed the sinners and the fags to fuel itself while recommending good road trip music.
>>676505470
shadow of the torturer series is a medievalesque story that takes place during a dark age on a generational ship
>>676478853
Why the fuck would anyone bring trees on their spaceship?
They're terrible oxygenators, don't provide any caloric or nutritional benefits, weigh a fuckton, take up space/nutrients/etc, and the single useful byproduct (timber, and wood pulp) which can't currently be artificially manufactured is no longer a necessity due to the digitizing of information and an explosion in the variety of building materials.
>>676505719
biodiversity
>>676505719
because only japs eat seaweed
http://exhentai.org/g/787987/662a187afe/
I imagine they'd need something akin to a dyson sphere in order to power the damn thing. I don't think it's feasible without something like the replicators they have in Star Trek either.
Just have a lower class caste, lace their food with pfizzer or the stuff that makes your dick hard so they have shitloads of babies.
Then use them as food and fuel and glue and leather and rope and bone furniture etc.
show of hands, who here would actually volunteer to ride this coffin?
>>676506328
in there internet?
>>676505836
You're exploring space niggah the fuck you need biodiversity for? Albeit if this was an 'oh fuck the plant is dying send out the ark' ship you could just bring frozen seeds (ala the seed bank) along for the ride.
>>676505958
When was the last time you purposefully ate sawdust? and yes I know there are fruit bearing trees, but their caloric output compared to the input required to maintain them is definitely not worth the effort
>>676505958
Dude, dry seaweed is actually a pretty decent snack and it's healthy as fuck too. I eat that shit like potato chips.
Hey guys I have a great idea
what if we built like a giant spherical spaceship that is propelled by gravity, and it can be circling another giant spherical spaceship that gives off shittons of energy which can feed the other giant sphere with all the energy required to live off.
Then we can use the gravity from the center of the galaxy to propel us throughout the universe!
Basically a total dictatorship. Strict regulations on everything from job selection to reproduction to stay functioning and within a certain population number.
>>676506310
This is already starting to sound a lot like Warhammer 40,000k. Or pretty much what Hitler would do if he started a space program.
inb4 we are already on an generational spaceship
and it's dying
>>676506827
Well.....we kind of are but I didn't feel like being pretentious and bringing it up.
![vaas%202[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LIELIz1.jpg "vaas%202[1].jpg")
>>676491324
I like this post. This is a nice fucking post.
>>676506729
If you're implying the earth is a generation ship thats fucking dumb because no one here is aware of the mission
>>676506973
that is because we don't have the clearance.
We are just a blight upon this ship, we will be dealt with in due time
>>676506973
The mission is obviously to strive for many dank memes son.
A brothel witg a space pimp
>>676478853
it would need your faggy pointless questions on board to make them leave this solar system and disappear in the void you stupid faggot go to sleep american lazy fuck
>>676507748
Shut up Australia you're drunk again.
