It's debate time with an old-school (thus far undecided
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
It's debate time with an old-school (thus far undecided on candidate)Democrat voter. Don't worry, I'll be gentle.
This man is a "high"-energy clown putting on a contrived and tepid "tough" guy act. Now, hold up!
I studied at NYU; I have a two-year college(top 3% of class) degree in economics.
I'm able, and willing to debate any of you on both economics and social issues.
And I'll ultimately be going to TOWN on your ass.
Now, let the games begin!
>>674530842
You can't win with Trump supporters, they ultimately don't care about details and take it as a personal offense when Trump is insulted, they'll probably just call you a cuck or sjw
>>674530842
cuck or sjw
I don't care about social issues. Either his policies work or he burns the whole system to the ground. Either way, he's the best choice for the future of The United States.
>>674531140
Or a race baiter or faggot or some other term only tangentially related to wyat you just said.
>>674530842
>And I'll ultimately be going to TOWN on your ass.
>going to TOWN on your ass
OP confirmed for faggot
Every liberal ever. No sense with arguing with them.
>>674531519
Stfu aids skrillex
>>674530842
>>674530842
You babysitting your wife's son tonight?
kys
>>674530842
It's Trump or nothing in every scenario from domestic to economic to foreign policy
Domestically he'll build us a wall to keep dirtyspics out and curb the crime rates for the southwest drastically. (inb4 racist, 75% hispanic here, fucking hate mexicans though, crime ridden rats)
Economic tax plan is comprehensive and eliminates loopholes so sure it's lower on paper but in practice it'll be a little bit more, and the lower/middle class has more to spend to stimulate the economy. Then he'll actually address trade deficits in our partners that they're blatantly taking advantage of so America isn't the brunt of industrious nation's greed.
Foreign policy, instead of being everyone's bitch and nation building and upkeeping they pay for our service or we get out, effectively weeding out unwilling allies, plus he'll eliminate the rift that's happened under Obama with deteriorating relations with Putin so we actually don't set in motion world war 3.
>>674530842
>TOWN on your ass
>>>674530842
Ur a faget
>>674530842
It's chill bud, It'd be nice to be able to discuss politics without being screamed at by a fool
>>674531698
>>674531795
>>674531896
le maymay cartoons
pff...
DUMP THE TRUMP
post this in every thread
its time to take back 4chan
>>674534410
Should I go TO TOWN on your ass?
>>674530842
I think the fundamental problem is the fact that people are enjoying Trump's campaigning events. Politics is supposed to be something that helps you fall asleep when done right, so he clearly ain't doing it right. Anyone can come up with vague catchphrases like "Make America Great Again" or "Build the Wall" and so on, but people should be more interested in the finer details. Then again, when he goes into the details and suggests stuff like making soldiers torture civilians for information, somebody is immediately explaining why POTUS can't in fact order such a thing.
Regardless of that, I think Trump needs to become the next president. If he doesn't, there will be no end to "If Trump was the president, then..." type of wishful thinking.
>>674535630
Very true, I didn't consider this. The /pol/ types and Trump supporters in general will never be able to say "if only we had elected Trump". I want Trump to beat Hillary because I think he's more likely not to do so well, thus the hopes of these idiots will turn to ashes in their mouth. trump2016
>>674535630
Honestly, I'm pretty torn.
From what I know the results of the obama administration will really start to show mid way though the next term, So the next president will get the credit, and no doubt the president after that will get the shit end of the stick that is the trump/whatever fuck face administration.
So on one hand, I want to see trump crash and burn for the fuck of it, on the other people will say he did great because of the obama bandaid.
Can't really win
>>674532482
>believing he'll actually build the wall
kek.you guys are deluded
>>674535630
People that do politics boring don't do politics right, politics is about winning the people not your pride.
This is fundamental for anything with governance involved, Trump is extremely intelligent because he will say crass and boorish things to get attention then gets his message across to a group of millions of peopel without paying a dime. If you people don't see the brilliance in that I have nothing to say to you, but to belittle Trump for simple things to win the common man, you're clearly delusional to think that's dumb
>>674530842
> all you need is understanding in money and people to make the country great
Nigga u high? There's heaps more than that involved with running a country
>>674537048
He'll build a fence and call it a day. Nevermind his promises of building "the best wall ever, much better than the chinese one".
>>674536645
Me again
>>674537100
That is what i really like about trump, but also what I hate.
He's given a golden ticket, and he's pissing it away by being a dumb fuck.
I don't mind the crass, or the crazy, I mind the ignorance and the hate.
It's not only about the economics and policy, it's also about the image that the leader of the united states portrays to the rest of the world.
I'd rather just have a president that didn't do shit over the guy that's going to build a huge wall because he likes to tower over people.
>>674537547
fence is cheaper, it's what any good businessman would do
>>674535630
>>674536199
The risk is that we'll see a small continuing economic upturn from simply moving further away from the recession, and from a few of Obama's policies, allowing Trump to say: "See, fascism is awesome" because we'll only really feel the hurt in a small decade or so.
It's ever the responsibility of the adult democrats to clean up after the childish republicans. The economy always sucks under republicans.
>>674537793
Exactly what Trumpfaggots would say. "I got a super good deal on this fence, so I went with that instead. It's not a broken campaign promise, it's a sign of my genius".
With selective reading, anyone can look like a genius. Trump's good at PR, and fucking nothing else.
Anyone else think a businessman in office is just going to change polices to line his pockets then run away?
>>674538063
Nah, buddy, you see, since the politicians are corrupted by big business we cut out the middle man and just elected the big businessmen.
Also, Trump's not self-funded. He pays via loans to himself, which can be paid back with donor-money. He's just as bought as anyone.
>>674538063
Or line the pockets of Big Business as well
Love that money!
Didn't we learn from this shit in the Grant administration?
Ulysses S Grant btw,
TL;Don't wanna look it up?
He brought some of his war buddys into office, they lined their pockets.
He had no idea, found out, kicked them out, now we have laws in place to vote people in.
>>674537658
It's not hate though, saying we'll build a wall is a smart thing, I mean I'm from Tennessee and last year alone2 girls were almost kidnapped by cartel sex traffickers in fucking East Tennessee, it's a problem, a big one espeically from what my mom told me about San Antonio it's pretty bad too, mainly because influx of illegals coming in with ease. So yeah, that's hardly hate speech and the muslim thing, just check out Germany and France right now, it's a big problem too. "refugees" come in without proper background check then bam, you got yourself a ISIS member with guns shooting up for their agenda.
This image thing you're getting at is silly though, do you think China's leaders are saying "we're so afraid of the president's image that he might ruin us!", they're always belligerent of whoever our leader is, in the grand scheme of things it's them or us, friendship or image doesn't play into it. Good negotiation and cunning does it all, Trump does have those things in the things he assesses and addresses to us.
I want you guys to actually look into his plans and tell me what he's doing wrong, you all are buying into the money and tv persona he's throwing to actually see what he's saying. He's a very brilliant politician and man in general.
>>674538903
>I want you guys to actually look into his plans and tell me what he's doing wrong
What plans? He has so few. It so often boils down to: "We need to figure this out" or "it's gonna be tremendous".
His healthcare "plan" is fucking absurd. Let the companies compete cross state. Sure, but then what? What about people with pre-existing conditions? What about people who are just dirt fucking poor?
Should you die because you or your parents are poor? Is a lack of skill or mental illnesses a capital offense?
And what about his stance on trade? "We're getting killed". Okay, but what's the plan? Let me guess, lower taxes. Yes, let's have an eternal race to the bottom. "B-b-but if they tax the businesses at 0.000000000000000001% we have to do it at 0.0000000000000000001%, otherwise we can't compete!".
He has no plans. He's good at talking shit and getting attention, and nothing else. That's what we'll see, going into the election. He'll talk a whole bunch of shit, assure everyone it's "gonna be tremendous" and not much more. He'll insult Hillary for being bought - and rightly so, I might add - and repeat that "I have a plan, it's gonna be tremendous".
Trump is a fucking fool. A tricksy fool with a grasp on getting eye balls, but a fool nonetheless.
>>674539637
Oh yeah, and if the democrats wise the everloving fuck up, they'll elect Bernie. He polls far, far, far better than Trump, and he's an actual adult. Few of Trump's attacks will work on Bernie, chiefly because he's not bought by anyone but real voters.
But since he has to crush the coming states, that's unfortunately looking grim. I remain hopeful, however.
>>674538903
I can't honestly say I don't hate the man, and not really for any of his polices.
I hate him for silly reasons, like the whole silver spoon thing.
I hate him for people walking up to me saying, "Naw naw he's a real good guy", when it's his greed that has gotten him to this point.
But besides all that, It's also a nationalism thing.
How can I beileve in my great country when my president, my leader, is a fool with a boot on his head.
I can't.
So I don't expect anyone else to give a shit about their country.
It's a wilting flower that no one wants to water because it's fucking ugly.
Nationalism is what makes a country great.
>>674534410
This image is totally changing my mind about voting for Trump. Your tactic will definitely work on others!
What really got me though, was the rhyming.
>dump
>Trump
LOL it rhymes!
>>674539865
Yeah, that is why Bernie is getting so many votes in every state, right? Oops, he's not because people don't like his bullshit policies.
Could you be any more dumb?
Op since Bernie will most likely lose to Hillary do you plan on supporting her even though she lies through her teeth?
>>674530842
>Immediately declares he's "going to TOWN"
>proud to be hostile to every point of view for the sake of it
>waves around piece of paper as if it proves anything other than he showed up to class
Ya, don't really care about your opinion.
>>674540108
I specifically said that it's unfortunately unlikely Bernie will win. Can you not read, or what?
Polls indicate clearly that Bernie beats Trump by a much wider margin than the margin with which Hillary beats Trump.
>>674539637
What do you mean? How is allowing people to start choosing from across the nation a bad idea? They have existing ones that'll most likely change to compete with one another. You do realize how it's setup right now it's just like internet companies and water companies that control set districts from payoffs to the government so they can set up minimonopolies
I think it's great that he's opening up the market, will there be minor complications at the beginning sure, but it'll be for the best.
No it's eliminate trade deficits and harmful deals that AMerican politicians have done for bribes. 500 billion each day from trade deficits with China, obviously something needs renegotiating.
You saying he talks a bunch of shit, is actually you not reading into what he says like I told you to before. He has said a ton and continues to add onto it more as he progresses into the Republican candidate, this what you've seen before was a show for attention, you see otherwise, because you buy into reality tv, don't be a joke anon
>>674538352
Wait he bought himself off? He's gonna be controlled by his financial backer
For the first time in my life,,,,, there is not a single candidate I can even remotely get behind. Trump spouts sound bites and appeals to people's hate and insecurities. Sanders is a fricken socialist that thinks the "Gubermint" should be running everything. Clinton 2.0 is already under federal investigation and hasn't even got the nomination yet,,,,,,,,, WTF is wrong with us? Out of over 350 MILLION people these are the best options we have? We are so fucked no matter which of these scumbags win.
https://youtu.be/nBdzNP52w8U his son is more level headed.
>>674540209
He mentioned his credentials because the retarded go-to "argument" of conservatives seems to smugly state: "you just don't understand the economy" - which often turns out to be fucking incorrect.
Not that anyone truly understands the economy, but I sure as shit understand it better than the average republican.
>>674540456
>How is allowing people to start choosing from across the nation a bad idea?
I never said that. Read what I wrote.
>renegotiating
I see, so he'll: "figure it out". Great.
He has no real plans. Look at his fucking website. It's laughable.
>>674539877
Still Me btw, and I'd like to add something more, and its about the tax system, So be ready to yell and correct me.
Why do we not have a flat tax system?
IMO It's because I figure flat tax isn't fair to the poor people, but if that's the case, why is the current one backwards?
Let me explain.
I'm poor as fuck, makin $1500 a month yeah? Like $1200 post tax.
Rent here in Cali is $800 and I live in a closet. $400 left.
Food $200. $200 left.
Gas + Insurance $150. $50 left for fun... Bitchen.
Now, That $300 I lost in taxes means a fuck ton to me, but to my buddy that makes 3k a month $300 is nothing, and on this %20 flat tax he'd lose $600 which is a big deal, but not as big as that $300 for me.
So it fucks me, only because it affects my quality of life.
Not the fancy things i own like a car, or a house, but the fact I will never be able to afford to spend a few days at home, or with my kids.
TL;DR - Cry Cry, I'm Poor
>>674530842
As a libertarian, I probably disagree with you on almost everything... except Trump. The man is awful on all counts.
>>674540379
>Bernie is losing by a landslide in nearly every state
>Trump winning by a landslide in every state
>"Bernie beats Trump"
If polls were accurate, Trump would have won Iowa, Sanders would have won Carolina, and Rand Paul would be the Republican nominee. Anyone who claims they can predict a general election this early is selling you snake oil, kid.
>>674540379
Hilary - The corporate candidate. The rich will get richer, and the not rich will get poorer.
Bernie - The poorly thought out ideologue. The rich will keep their money or move it, and the not rich will become destitute so the absolute worst of society can afford more cigs and beer.
Trump - The anti-establishment candidate. Won't directly change much, but will force change in the system.
Hilary wins by default. Lords make decisions, not serfs, and she is supported by the lords. And yes I'm comparing the wealthy to lords and everyone else to surfs, because it's accurate as shit.
>>674540196
Hillary fags https://youtu.be/-dY77j6uBHI
>>674530842
The politicians you like suck ass as well and will use you until you're no longer useful. They don't care about you individually.
All politicians are like that.
You're retarded if you think otherwise.
>>674540788
If that were the case my friend, I'd pick Trump.
Still me, I'll be back Tho.. Denny's is callin my name
>>674540788
>Bernie - The poorly thought out ideologue.
Incorrect. This is said by people who are not paying a fucking lick of attention.
>>674540773
>>Bernie is losing by a landslide in nearly every state
No, he isn't. For the third time: I acknowledge it's not going well, but "a landslide in every state" is factually incorrect.
Anyone who thinks polls are irrelevant is talking shit, kiddo.
>>674540788
>so the absolute worst of society can afford more cigs and beer.
Top kek. This is spot on. Liberals imagine that poor blacks and mexicans just want to hang out at starbucks and like each other's pics on Facebook just like hipsters do. They imagine minorities as milquetoast white people like themselves. Giving free stuff to these people will just make the actual productive people of society pissed off and poor. Bernie Sanders is the worst candidate since Al Gore.
>>674540993
>I acknowledge it's not going well
He lost, dude. Get over it. The only reason he isn't calling it quits is because the fags over at reddit literally give him their entire paychecks and he wants to cash in on some sweet shekels.
>>674540657
I guess you missed that point that he'll sanction china for manipulating their currency, but maybe that was him not having an idea
He has tons of plans, he doesn't release it yet, because no one honestly gives a shit, it's the primary, it's a show so far, if you're too dense to see that you're obviously too young to know how this works
>>674540788
Bernie is honest and has good intentions but his stance on a lot of economic issues are flat out bad.
>>674541159
>sanction china
Good fucking luck with that.
>He has tons of plans, he doesn't release it yet
Haha, you can't make this shit up.
>t-trust me guys, T-trump has tons of p-plans! Tre-tremendous!
It's nothing short of absolutely fucking embarrassing.
>>674541306
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/07/democratic-debate-flint-bernie-sanders-ghetto-racism-07.cnn/video/playlists/2016-democratic-presidential-debates/
>>674540773
>>Bernie is losing by a landslide in nearly every state
Isn't Hillary only winning because of the black vote? Democratic primaries, especially in the southeast, are dominated by blacks. Bernie is holding his own or winning everywhere else. The southeast states are done. The rest of the primary season is more favorable to Bernie.
>>Trump winning by a landslide in every state
That's not true. Other than Nevada and Hawaii, Trump has only won states in the east. Draw a line north from Texas to Oklahoma to Kansas to Iowa to Minnesota - Trump loses from there, to the West.
>>674541306
>his stance on a lot of economic issues are flat out bad.
You only say this because you don't understand the economy. "Cut taxes, lower spending" is not infinitely applicable, as conservatives seem to think, and as the general populace has been lead to believe.
Are there dumb spending programs? Sure there are. That's nearly unavoidable. Are the rich paying a lot of taxes? Penny for penny, sure, but that's sort of what happens when you're raking in money hand over fist. The wealth is, demonstrably, being sucked into the top. This does not make for a healthy economy. The money isn't being circulated. Jobs aren't being created. $1000 bucks that a poor person doesn't have to spend = $1000 being spent on various stuff, which creates jobs. That same $1000 in the hands of a rich person will do jack. fucking. shit. It'll rot in some account, not creating jobs.
>>674537793
Trumps not a good businessman, got everything from his dad, has gone bankrupt, never successfully run a public company.
Do americans truly think he's actually gonna build a wall?
Are you all retarded?
>>674541554
>The rest of the primary season is more favorable to Bernie.
True, but we have to be realistic and honest. He doesn't just have to win, he has to win by quite a bit. I remain very hopeful, but people have to fucking turn up and vote.
>>674540993
>Incorrect. This is said by people who are not paying a fucking lick of attention.
that is not a rebuttal. He talks about minorities and funding to the "poor", yet the actual fine details don't add up. Minorities are not an issue. People in ghettos, are in ghettos because they want to be in ghettos. Throwing money at them is just going to create more garbage in ghettos. Trying to take money from the wealthy, is ONLY going to lead to the wealthy moving their money. You can't touch their liquid assets. Now if he was pushing labor unions and focused taxes on investment earnings, then he might make sense, but no, he's pandering to the SJW "black lives matter" types.
>>674541600
The retarded thing is thinking Mexico is going to pay for it.
Trump wants to put tariffs on Mexican imports to pay for the wall. A tariff is nothing but a sales tax. Mexico is the seller, the US is the buyer. Sales taxes are paid by the buyer, not the seller. Trump supporters are literally voting for a tax hike and don't even realize it.
>belonging to a party
>towing party lines
>voting in general
You can't see the forest from the trees. The blind are debating the blind.
>>674541351
>belittling argument because it doesn't fit my criteria "this Trump supporter sure is uninformed... FUCKING RACIST!!!"
China needs America more than AMerica needs China, especially considering their economic stability right now, trust me they'll play ball or they'll drop to a 3rd world nation within a decade.
You can make snide arguments saying he's dumb, but he's made as many plans as the other candidates, you don't hear them, because it doesn't give good ratings. Name specifics and I'll tell you his plan, other than that I'm not going to write a god damn 100 page essay on it.
One thing about the socialist plans of Bernie or any welfare state plans I'd like to say is if you skim money from the rich and give to the poor it does not stimulate the economy. You just move money around and a good portion will be used by the state in that process making a loss. No money is actually created and you take from people who were in a better position to use the money to creat jobs potentially. Someone on welfare is not ever going to get enough from gov't subsidies to help build the economy effectively
Everything aside from the presidential elections. Did you ever have to take a million dollars and build a multi billion dollar company and have to pay back that million dollars plus interest to your father and keep it that way for 30+ years. Yes your smart but what have you done with it.
>>674541640
He's not that far behind if you only look at committed delegates. Where he's getting blown out is super delegates, but those can change. They'll definitely switch sides if Hillary is indicted in May, as people are predicting.
>>674534410
Get back to tumblr faggot
>>674531140
fucking sjw jew cuck
>>674531896
>>674541507
Kek. Racist commie jew
I like the fact that Trump is winning.
Means they don't trust news media anymore.
Trumps already making America great again, just by running for office.
>>674541585
>has gone bankrupt
This meme again. He never went personally bankrupt. 4 businesses that used his name went bankrupt and the liberal media leads the weak minded like yourself to make it seem as though he has failed miserably.
>got everything from his dad
Oh fuck me. Do you get all your info from HuffPo?
>never successfully run a public company.
He has literally had hundreds of companies. The idea that he has not been successful is ludicrous.
>>674541600
>Do americans truly think he's actually gonna build a wall?
That is the plan. Must be weird having a person running in government who isn't a complete cuck. How are all those refugees raping your women working out for you, Pajeet?
>>674541569
>Are the rich paying a lot of taxes? Penny for penny, sure
You realize that the rich pay 80% of the entire income tax, right? Literally all of these government programs that give free stuff to drug addicts and liberal arts majors come from those rich people that they hate.
>$1000 bucks that a poor person doesn't have to spend = $1000 being spent on various stuff, which creates jobs.
Is English your first language or are you just retarded?
>"Cut taxes, lower spending" is not infinitely applicable, as conservatives seem to think, and as the general populace has been lead to believe.
Wow, good analysis, bro. You totally explained why this basic principle is incorrect.
>>674541742
>that is not a rebuttal.
And "poorly thought out ideologue" isn't a valid criticism.
>Trying to take money from the wealthy, is ONLY going to lead to the wealthy moving their money.
So let's just not tax them at all, right?
I will readily agree that I'm annoyed with the SJW shit, but I guess the perfect candidate is too much to ask for.
>>674541820
I never called anyone a racist, buddy.
>You can make snide arguments saying he's dumb, but he's made as many plans as the other candidates, you don't hear them
>H-he totally has plans u gais
What are his plans on healthcare for people who are dirt. fucking. poor? "Competition across state lines" is crossing your fingers and hoping for dear life that the market will handle it - something it has proven itself unable to do.
What about student loan debt? Nothing at all?
What about the fact that the wealthy are controlling an ever-increasing portion of the wealth? I can probably guess that the answer is: "fuck all".
What about the climate?
How is he actually going to create an environment where jobs are being made? The rich don't magic up jobs. Jobs come from a demand for goods. When the poor have no fucking money, why should anyone create those jobs?
Let me guess. It's going to be "tremendous", right? Right.
>>674541569
Fucking commie, you're literally advocating to take money away from someone who has earned it so some magical program can get Tyrone a job that he'll get fired from within weeks, because why work when the government hands you everything for free. That's what you naive pieces of shit don't understand. These fucking niggers and white trash scum don't want to work. They want to sit back and collect their benefits and their checks.
>>674542260
I know he avoided personal bankruptcy, barely, but a big portion of his empire did. Do you know what a "public" company is? Seriously...
The amount of attacks trump is receiving from the mainstream media and the total disinformation they constantly spread shows it scares the shit out of the establishment. For better or worse trump is the one person they all have their sights on which makes me support him. The way things are going right now will not work long term and any other option is buying into that
>>674542260
If they have 80% of income they should pay 80% of income tax
>>674542260
>How are all those refugees raping your women working out for you, Pajeet?
>South america
>haven't seen an arabic person un muy fucking life
By the way, next time actually reply to the argument instead of attacking the person who said it. That's what tumblrinas do.
>>674542291
Climate change?, wake up nerd. This planets done for, no one will remember you I guess it's time to kill yourself.
>>674542445
You just don't understand the economy. Taxation is, and has always been, "taking money away from someone who has earned it". That's what taxes are. Don't fret, you just don't understand the economy.
If you understood the economy you'd realise that taxes provide the environment for prosperity. Where, yes, even poor people are able to not die from starvation if they're unskilled or uneducated.
I hope you'll take the time to understand the economy before saying more stuff about it in the future.
>>674542260
How is a wall facing Mexico going to keep out refugees from places other than Mexico?
>>674541794
>The retarded thing is thinking Mexico is going to pay for it.
Do you realize that Mexicans immigrants send millions to Mexico every year? Do you know how much it costs us in welfare, education, interpretation, etc to bring these immigrants here? Do you know how much aid we give to Mexico every year?
Building a wall would save us a ton of money.
>>674542622
Income tax is there just so bottom feeders can get handouts every February, it's literally redistribution of wealth, with the government taking extra money from the middle class. You'll understand when you work hard all year and even though they've already taken so much in taxes you still have to pay in. All so the government can create more programs.
>>674542795
But with what money are you going to build it?
>>674542291
They can go for the cheapest plan available, I'm dirt fucking poor and healthcare isn't a right, just like a job, or my car isn't either.
The wealthy has been addressed with getting rid of corporate and individual loopholes while decreasing taxes so they technically pay more, but oh that's not enough for you. Plus that tidbit about people making less than 25k don't pay anything at all.
The climate is blown out of proportion and out debatable as best, even Freeman Dyson was questioning the data shown by mainstream media, trust me scientist have agenda too, they have to make money like any other business. Look up how Antartica is actually increasing in size.
Did the whole renegotiating and ripping up NAFTA mean nothing to you? NAFTA has led to over 1 million jobs lost from American soil, we're outsourcing thousands of jobs to Mexico, Japan, and China because currency manipulaton and unfriendly corporate tax rates. Sorry but we have the largest tax rate in the world for corporations, make it 15 like Germany and we'll be back into it
Let me guess, that's not enough for you, because you don't like him as a person
>Got a degree that does nothing.
>Calls himself "old-school" Democrat, when it hasn't changed since Raegan, otherwise you'd call yourself conservative for pre-dating old Ronnie.
>Thinking a liberal opinion on economics could ever matter in the one country taking its risk and succeeding in strong Capitalism.
>Probably voted Kasich to scorn Trump instead of voting your candidate in to keep from losing to Hitlery.
>Wants to debate on a Laotian frog humor board.
Absolutely not. Go back to wherever.
>>674542291
>And "poorly thought out ideologue" isn't a valid criticism.
Yes, it absolutely is. Good job on completely dodging the actual point of the post, what's it like waving the white flag so easily?
>>674542657
Oh my. Taxes stimulate the economy? Taxes finance the gov't and it's programs. Sure there lots of cushy gov't jobs but I would bet if there were no taxes forced onto the economy it would stimulate it much more.
>>674542657
Get the fuck out of here moron.
No one said anything about getting rid of taxes. Taxes are great when theyre paving roads, public education and being used to blow up shitskins in the middle east. You're exactly what's wrong with this country. Benefits for these trash need to be cut in half, they have no idea about struggle.
>>674542795
>Do you realize that Mexicans immigrants send millions to Mexico every year?
That doesn't actually cost us anything. Think about what that transaction means. They come here, work to produce something, and consume nothing because they send the money back to Mexico. They're basically working for free. How is that bad for us?
>Do you know how much it costs us in welfare, education, interpretation, etc to bring these immigrants here?
There are studies on both sides of that. Some say they contribute more than they consume, others say the opposite.
>Do you know how much aid we give to Mexico every year?
$165 million in 2015. I agree that ought to be cut to zero. But that doesn't justify a 35% tax on imports from Mexico, which will be paid by Americans. And sales taxes - tariffs - are regressive. They hit the poor the hardest.
>>674542657
>taxes provide the environment for prosperity.
This is what liberals believe in the year 2016. I hope you aren't old enough to vote, lad. You're essentially saying, "Please fuck the shit out of my asshole for the good of the world!"
Trade with China is bad for us
>>674543310
Probably not, I would save my money to buy another property, so I could not rent it to spics, niggers, or fags.
>>674530842
Pretty sure hilarity clinton already won
>>674530842
Even the way you frame your challenge explains exactly why this "clown" is going to win not only the nomination but also the presidency.
Your reaction to him is *emotional* (you called him a "high energy clown") and you also acknowledge that he is presenting an *emotional* attack pattern on the candidacy ("tough guy act"). He's been making emotional plays and identity plays for the whole of the show so far.
And you know what? He is a motherfucking expert at it.
Yet the gauntlet you are throwing down is one based in rationality ("economics major... top 3%... willing to debate...")
The Trump cares not for debate other than as places he can continue to put across his emotionally charged, identity centered message.
The Trump cares not for facts and figures nor for rational discourse.
The Trump finds it quite funny that highbrow ass-clowns like yourself are are beating up his poor ignoramus supporters with your reasoned policy analysis because he knows that they do not give a fuck.
Not one.
Not a single solitary fuck.
The Trump is going to walk this thing unless whoever the fuck the Democrat candidate is wakes the fuck up makes a BETTER EMOTIONAL IDENTITY APPEAL to the masses.
Hillary has a big problem with that because her identity appeal is to women and beta men and even the highbrows, like your good self, don't really *like* her: rationally because she is a massive hawk in the pocket of a bunch of big money including a bunch of really nasty foreigners and emotionally because you'd love to get a chance to fuck Bill and she's known to get upset about that.
Bernie has a different problem with it, he's actually got a lot of the good identity rhetoric going but it just wont work because most Amerifags aren't Jewish and deep down are a little bit racist. Don't cry, it's just the truth.
So take the town you are planning to plant on our asses and have a bigger, deeper think about a real plan of attack that might actually be effective.
>>674543438
What? If Mexicans come here, work and then send it back home that's a total loss. I can't even believe that's your logic. If I come to your house and make dinner with your food,we all eat and I bring all the leftovers home with me you will have nothing to pack for lunch the next day. Seems like a loss to me
>>674543438
>Do you realize that Mexicans immigrants send millions to Mexico every year?
That doesn't actually cost us anything. Think about what that transaction means. They come here, work to produce something, and consume nothing because they send the money back to Mexico. They're basically working for free. How is that bad for us?
WHAT!!!!!! How did you come up with that idea? They are taking jobs from US Citizens ( and yes, they would work those jobs if the illegals didn't drive the wages so low that you can make more money sitting on your ass collecting unemployment) Ten they take that money which would have stayed in the US and been spent on goods or services that would have supported more US citizens and send it to Mexico where it does the US NO FUCKING GOOD AT ALL!!!!!!
>>674540108
Senator Sanders has received over 6,000,000 votes so far.
>>674543438
>That doesn't actually cost us anything.
Literally taking money out of our economy and sending it back to Mexico where they tax the transaction as it crosses the border doesn't cost us anything? Uh, okay then. I always assumed that spending their money in this country is what would help our economy. I guess I was wrong this entire time.
>Some say they contribute more than they consume
Well, they certainly contribute crime, welfare dependency, and drugs. We can't forget that they are literally bringing a rape culture to our land. Good ol' Mexicans.
>doesn't justify a 35% tax on imports from Mexico
Their government literally encourages their poorest people to come here to leech off of us.
>which will be paid by Americans.
Wanna know the trick here? It's that Americans won't pay for the cars that are imported from Mexico so they manufacturers move back to our country.
>>674542969
>They can go for the cheapest plan available, I'm dirt fucking poor and healthcare isn't a right, just like a job, or my car isn't either.
So if they get an expensive disease, fuck 'em? No thanks.
>The wealthy has been addressed with getting rid of corporate and individual loopholes while decreasing taxes so they technically pay more
And how much, exactly?
>The climate is blown out of proportion
Wrong.
>Did the whole renegotiating and ripping up NAFTA mean nothing to you?
>we'll re-negotiate!
Trump's promises are impossible to achieve.
>>674543104
>Yes, it absolutely is.
If "you suck" is a valid criticism, then "nah" is a valid rebuttal.
>>674543310
>Taxes stimulate the economy?
Was that what I said? No.
>>674543352
>Taxes are great
Straight up communist bastard. Get him, folks.
>Benefits for these trash need to be cut in half, they have no idea about struggle.
It's human beings we're talking about, and some of them - most of them? You don't have data to say one way or the other - are in actual, serious need of a safety net. You might too, some day.
>>674543494
No, I'm plainly saying that taxation results in higher prosperity, infrastructure being one example. If you can get to your job in the town center, while living cheaply on the outskirts, you're better off. If goods and services can be easily transported, we all benefit.
If we have an educated populace, we're more easily able to create high-skilled jobs that benefit us all.
>>674530842
Methotrexate to be the best way for the job to the irs to get the best of 9th and I will be at least one more other people are going not be able I 2 to the house and 26 hebdomad 8yhe72672u 8th grade and I am going through my mind is 2j to Joe the way I nne93 jjs I will 9th and 10th and I will not be able to get the most popular and the rest of the kiddos healthy diet and I will not be able to get the most popular. Batches. Count the fingers you liberty and I will not be the same thing for the next day.
>>674543905
Ya man. It dumps money into their economy that was not created there. Great for them but is a giant siphon off the us economy. You think they turn around and buy us products with that? Also all the money spent there is being taxed and going into the Mexican gov't coffers, not into the us tax system. It's fucking everyone from welfare collectors to the prez.
>>674543774
Haven't your parents put you to bed yet?
>beating up his poor ignoramus supporters
Daily reminder: 63% of the people who voted Obama into office were highschool dropouts.
Daily reminder: 14% of millenials voting for Sanders don't know what Socialism is, and when questioned, they support free market capitalism.
Daily reminder: Trump wins all demographics among his party even though the media only reports "uneducated people voting for Trump".
>>674539267
you're a white male
>>674543899
Your analogy doesn't work.
They're creating goods and providing services and consuming nothing in return. That means they're working for free. That's not a bad deal.
>>674543905
Are you saying a job is a right? US citizens are entitled to jobs? That sounds awful close to the OWS position.
It is true that an increase in the supply of labor will drive down prices. But, that does not mean there is a decrease in wealth. Wealth, remember, is the ability to consume. While an increase in the supply of labor will drive down wages, the additional output provided by that labor also drives down prices by an even greater amount. That allows people to consume more, even with nominally lower wages.
>>674530842
trump is the only candidate talking about the cancerous abuse of the H1B visas which axe american jobs for low pay asian workers, the media doesn't want to talk about his proposed policies except for the wall, because learning about the policies only grows his voter base
>>674544326
>If "you suck" is a valid criticism, then "nah" is a valid rebuttal.
That white flag is flapping around pretty hard.
See, her'es how it goes, you look at the entire post, and respond to the actual argument. That's called a debate, what you're doing is not reading the post, and just yelling "you suck".
Your degree is showing.
>>674544508
>>674544508
>They're creating goods and providing services and consuming nothing in return
The money does not stay in our economy you retard. What part of this do you not get?
>That means they're working for free.
No, it means the money they are paid is being spent in another country rather than being spent here.
>That's not a bad deal.
Holy shit, I can't even.
>>674544141
>Literally taking money out of our economy and sending it back to Mexico where they tax the transaction as it crosses the border doesn't cost us anything? Uh, okay then. I always assumed that spending their money in this country is what would help our economy. I guess I was wrong this entire time.
You were. Wealth is the ability to consume. That means things have to be produced. Production drives wealth, not consumption. If they are producing something and consuming nothing, they're benefiting everyone who does consume.
>Well, they certainly contribute crime, welfare dependency, and drugs. We can't forget that they are literally bringing a rape culture to our land. Good ol' Mexicans.
That's not true. Statistically speaking, immigrants from every country are less likely to commit crime than their native born counterparts of the same age and sex.
On a tangentially related note, Muslim immigrants are actually only 1/3rd as likely to support terrorism than Muslims who were born here. The immigrants know what kind of crazy they're trying to escape. The born here's don't.
Their government literally encourages their poorest people to come here to leech off of us.
To work, not to leech. Fix the welfare system and there is no problem.
>Wanna know the trick here? It's that Americans won't pay for the cars that are imported from Mexico so they manufacturers move back to our country.
1. Americans could already refuse to pay for Mexican cars, if they wanted. The fact that they don't ought to tell you that buying Mexican made cars is our preference. (That's not actually true. There are a lot of cars produced in America. We don't discriminate.)
2. If we refused to buy anything from Mexico, then Trump's Wall would never be built. Because that's how he says he's going to pay for it.
>>674544433
>Haven't your parents put you to bed yet?
It's 6pm where I am. I can stay up at least until 8.
> 63% of the people who voted Obama into office were highschool dropouts.
Yes and that is because his "new way.. Yes we can" message was emotionally charged and caused them to identify with his campaign.
>14% of millenials voting for Sanders don't know what Socialism is, and when questioned, they support free market capitalism.
Or to put it another way, 86% of them not only understand socialism but understand that it is not a dirty word because they have heard of "Norway" and "Denmark".
>Trump wins all demographics among his party
Good for him! Is that because of his policies? His facts? His figures? Are you gonna sway these people with rational argument?
No. Trump is NOT a rational choice but he is a master showman and manipulator. Attacking his policies from a rational angle is wasting effort - it's like throwing caltrops in front of his tires when he's actually driving a tank.
>>674544814
Wealth is NOT little green pieces of paper. Wealth is the ability to consume.
They are producing, but not consuming. They're adding supply but not adding demand. That helps everyone who does consume by lowering prices.
>>674544444
You're a quint
>>674544508
Your going to have to explain better what you mean by not consuming anything if we are going to even try to understand the logic. You just keep regurgitating the same thing and not addressing the whole" money sent out of USA is not in us economy" thing
>>674545060
Sorry, lad - typo.
>Forty-two percent say they prefer socialism as a means of organizing society, but only 16% can define the term properly as government ownership of the means of production. In fact, when asked whether they want an economy managed by the free market or by the government, 64% want the former and just 32% want the latter.
http://time.com/2974185/millennials-poll-politics/
>Good for him! Is that because of his policies? His facts? His figures? Are you gonna sway these people with rational argument?
You have offered no evidence to the contrary, and I am someone who was swayed by his policies. I am going to assume that I am of average intelligence and others are similar to me and similarly swayed by his policies.
>Trump is NOT a rational choice
Cool opinion.
>>674545187
The little green piece of paper is the receipt for producing. Which can be used as seen fit by the individual to consume what they choose.
>>674531698
God damn, that's on-point.
Trump is saying what most of America wants to say (and believe.)
Most Americans agree with his statements (rants,) but are too scared to cross the overly-vocal MINORITY.
>>674545236
They come here.
They work. - They produce something. - They add supply.
They get paid for that production in dollars.
They send those dollars back to Mexico - They don't consume US production.
They add supply, but don't add demand. Increased supply with stable demand means lower prices. That more than offsets the reduction in wages caused by the added supply of labor.
I don't know how I can explain it any different, but that's pretty basic economics.
>>674545497
But they're choosing NOT to consume. At least, they're not consuming US production if they're sending those dollars back to Mexico.
That leaves the US with the benefit of their production without the cost of their consumption.
>>674530842
trying to have a logical debate on 4chan about trump is like trying to hand out gay pride bumperstickers at a nascar race.
people will scream at you and call you faggot and make a necklace out of your teeth.
>>674544508
I didn't say that you fucking idiot, I said that illeagals drive the wage base DOWN, You say they consume nothing??? Total bullshit, check out the costs to run any of the larger county hospitals that the illegals go to. Dallas county ALONE 70% of women giving birth there are illegals that cost about 70 million a year. That is only costs associated with births and only 1 hospital...... That doesn't account for all the other social services they consume that are paid for by US taxpayers. Now, some illegals use stolen SS numbers to obtain "Real" jobs a nd do pay taxe, many though obtain jobs where they are paid under the table in cash paying no taxes. Do you live up north where this is not common knowledge?
And yes you total moron, if they are sending money earned here in the US out of the US they are decreasing wealth...
No way are we better off financially then we were in the 70s or 80s, look at any honest report on adjusted income and it has stagnated and even lowered in many cases. How can you consume more when you make less and prices are rising?
Holy shit can you even walk and chew gum at the same time???
>>674545005
>Production drives wealth, not consumption.
And what do you imagine drives production? What a fucking retard.
>Muslim immigrants are actually only 1/3rd as likely to support terrorism than Muslims who were born here.
Yeah, tell that to the 9/11 hijackers, the boston bombers, the chatanooga shooter, the san bernardino shooters, and all the somalis in minnesota joining ISIS.
>To work, not to leech. Fix the welfare system and there is no problem.
Are you just pulling this out of your ass? They are literally sending criminals, the poorest, and the uneducated. They come here and drive down the cost of labor and more than half of them are on welfare.
http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-Native-Households
>>674539267
YOU'RE A WHITE MALE
>>674530842
trump is more than just a person. he's a message to the freaks, immigrants and faggots that think this country is somehow theirs to run.
sorry retards. this is God and the white man's country. we made it, we killed for it, we died for it. Somewhere along the line we made the mistake to be generous with our success and trusted the lot of you with some scraps of it. We won't make that same mistake again.
>>674545563
Ok. That may reduce prices but it doesn't really help the us economy. Aside from their survival needs they spend money on if they are opting out of participating in the us economy and sending their money out of country it seems to me to be a loss. The taxes from their excess are going to the Mexican government instead of the us gov't. A job that could be filled by a us citizen who would fully participate in the us economy is being filled by a non citizen.
>>674545912
>I didn't say that you fucking idiot, I said that illeagals drive the wage base DOWN, You say they consume nothing??? Total bullshit, check out the costs to run any of the larger county hospitals that the illegals go to. Dallas county ALONE 70% of women giving birth there are illegals that cost about 70 million a year. That is only costs associated with births and only 1 hospital...... That doesn't account for all the other social services they consume that are paid for by US taxpayers.
There are studies on both sides. Some say illegals consume more than they produce, others say the opposite. You can choose which you want to believe. In either case, I agree that the subsidies ought to end - for everyone. But that's a welfare problem, not an immigration problem.
>Now, some illegals use stolen SS numbers to obtain "Real" jobs a nd do pay taxe, many though obtain jobs where they are paid under the table in cash paying no taxes. Do you live up north where this is not common knowledge?
If they get a SS number - and many do - then they pay into SS. Illegals pay about $12 Billion into SS every year. They manage to collect around $1 billion from it. They also contribute around $10 Billion to state governments, usually through sales and excise taxes.
>if they are sending money earned here in the US out of the US they are decreasing wealth...
No. If they're adding supply, but not adding demand, then they're not decreasing wealth. Take Econ 101.
>No way are we better off financially then we were in the 70s or 80s, look at any honest report on adjusted income and it has stagnated and even lowered in many cases. How can you consume more when you make less and prices are rising?
I didn't say we were better off than the 70's or 80's. We are, but I didn't say that. The economy began to stagnate in the year 1999. We're down significantly from the peak, but only back to the level of around 1988. We're definitely better off than we were in the 70's.
>>674540993
>kiddo.
What are you, gramps?
>>674541306
How naive are you? He is a politician.
OP if you have your degree and were in the top 3% of your class, then where's your $4 billion?
√m8
>>674546030
That's a damn good link. Kudos, anon.
What I'd really like to see is the removal of any and all welfare/govt subsidies for children.
I live in SoCal where over 40% of children receive free lunch at school.
All these social welfare programs reinforce the notion that you can knock out some anchor babies and Uncle Sam will carry the burden.
This perpetuates the welfare class from generation to generation.
>>674541820
>trust me they'll play ball or they'll drop to a 3rd world nation within a decade.
You must have never seen China, read anything about China or the whole of SEA or any fucking world history.
Protip, visit sub-sahara Africa and then go visit SEA and then run your mouth.
>>674542657
>taxes provide the environment for large-scale warfare
Fixed.
>>674546030
>And what do you imagine drives production? What a fucking retard.
Capital. Savings. If you are implying that consumption drives savings, that would be wrong. Read up on "Say's Law".
>Yeah, tell that to the 9/11 hijackers, the boston bombers, the chatanooga shooter, the san bernardino shooters, and all the somalis in minnesota joining ISIS.
Anecdotal evidence? See attached pic.
>Are you just pulling this out of your ass? They are literally sending criminals, the poorest, and the uneducated. They come here and drive down the cost of labor and more than half of them are on welfare.
They do drive down the cost of labor, but they drive down the cost of goods by a greater amount. That's a net economic gain. They don't qualify for most welfare.
They aren't mostly criminals. US native born men have an incarceration rate 7 times greater than their foreign born counterparts of the same age. That holds true across every ethnic group.
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/docs/Imm%20Criminality%20(IPC).pdf
>>674530842
If you're democrat, why are you debating about this assclown? You have more important things to worry about.
>>674546524
>if they are opting out of participating in the us economy and sending their money out of country it seems to me to be a loss.
They're not opting out. They're adding to production.
>The taxes from their excess are going to the Mexican government instead of the us gov't.
They pay some US taxes. Around $12 billion tot he feds and $10 billion to state governments.
>A job that could be filled by a us citizen who would fully participate in the us economy is being filled by a non citizen.
So? A job is not a right. It wasn't even against the law to hire an illegal until 1986. Hell, the US didn't have any immigration laws at all for its first hundred years, and it kept an open borders policy for everyone except Chinese into the early 1900's. All that time with open or near open borders and our standard of living was going through the roof.
>>674547571
>Bernsie
>pro-illegal immigrants
Lol nothing weighs a socialist system down more than unchecked immigration.
>>674547571
>>674547812
Your mother was an illegal immigrant, and a whore
>>674547908
>>674547965
>illegal immigration is good and should be encouraged!
Do retards unironically believe this?
Trump literally said rapists and drug dealers are crossing the boarder with little/no effort to stop them and the entire country now thinks Trump hates Mexicans?
Does he hate Mexicans or unregulated immigration?
Stop being retarded.
>>674548167
Trump literally said he'd suck the shit out of a preteen's asshole. He's a pedophile and a racist. He also drinks his own urine
>>674548444
Gotcha.
>>674548589
Trump claims feminine penis isn't gay. I disagree
>>674531517
>THIS
It's win win either way.
>>674547239
That pic must be old as fuck, bro.
>They do drive down the cost of labor, but they drive down the cost of goods by a greater amount.
This is debatable. The cost of having them here, including crime, education, welfare, etc is much more of a burden than a gain.
>>674547239
>>674548444
Let's not get carried away. Drinking urine is a great way to stay in shape! Everyone should do it.
>>674549327
No, it isn't. You're consuming waste.
>>674548816
not really. his statement mentions the US in isolation when we know what the US does affects the rest of the world.
it takes a diplomat to be a president, not a loudmouth.
we'll see
>>674544776
>See, her'es how it goes, you look at the entire post, and respond to the actual argument. That's called a debate, what you're doing is not reading the post, and just yelling "you suck".
You just defended the notion that "poorly thought out ideologue" is a valid criticism. It is not. You can keep yammering on about how it is, but that does not make it so - just like calling Trump Hitler isn't a valid criticism, I might add.
If it's just useless words with no merit, why write it at all?
>>674530842
trump will be slaughtered against hillary.
he's given her enough ammo to make swiss cheese out of him.
every time a debate's too hard for him he doesn't show up.
the mexican wall, if built will have holes knocked in it by the cartels within weeks.
without cheap mexican labor the american economy will slump.
congress will tie him up in knots and lobby groups will undermine everything they don't like just as they always do.
there aren't enough angry white men to make him president.
>>674540660
>>674539877
I just got back, and after seeing the rest of this thread i'm goin to sleep
>>674530842
I'll be gentle. Taking that tone of superiority means this won't be a discussion but a waste of peoples time.
0/10 you should consider yourself lucky I replied.
