There you go again Bernie, making people seem like the victims of their own voluntary choices and then trying to "save" them from themselves by forcing one side to change their side of what originally was a mutually agreed upon arrangement.
Thats not enough though. You have to take your self-serving intentional misunderstanding of the reality of the situatuon and try convincing those that are easy to convince that your skewed and now manipulatively innacurate perspective is true... so here's the correction... what the reality actually is.
Most banks don't charge fees as a benefit of their bank membership. Most even pay to join an independent ATM provider network to increase the availability of "free" ATMs for their customers. Some even pay a rebate for the fees that other banks and independent ATM providers charge if the customer can't find an ATM from their own bank or network.
Essentially, Bernie is trying to paint it as though everyone's getting ripped off, when the competition found in capitalism is actually incentivizing most banks to make ATM'S free or even pay you when not using their own ATM's.
Why is this even an issue worthy of a tweet to be liked and shared by the average Sanders supporter who doesn't understand how any of this works and thus easily agrees with the all powerful political wizard of oz? Why does he feel the need to exaggerate it into such a false narrative?
From his subconscience's point of view, the adoration of a young generation that look at themselves as revolutionaries when that's what Bernie has always looked up to and wanted to be since his own college activism days must feel nice. Getting that support recorded as votes and getting to live off that political and social love when nothing else worked as a career must feel great too. Who doesn't like the feeling of millions of people validating what you believe and have to say and thus having their self-worth maintained, let alone boosted extravagantly? Who doesn't like seeing millions of people stand loyal and defensive of you in the face of those claiming to have invalidated your beliefs and ideas?
Is it really so hard to believe that he has many reasons to lie and be cognitively dissonant of anyone who tries showing him to be the liar and in turn that everything that makes him feel good in his life's work was undeserving here in reality?
Talk about status quo politician...
When he's willing to manipulatively and inconspiculously lie about something so small, let alone the many false narratives he's already portrayed that are much more serious, how can anyone trust him?
Why? Because he's consistent on issues as a career politician?
Intellectuals don't stay consistent on the things they are wrong about. They scrutinize what they believe on their own and re-scrutinize what they believe when offered contrary information and they correct themselves. What non-intellectuals are right about are due to their life long biases steering them in certain ideological directions, not from a competence in reasoning.
Having your heart in the right place doesn't matter at all if what you're going to do about it is completely backwards. It only shows that what he puts before the thing he presumably cares about is his own ego and believing his own dishonesty in order to maintain it.
No humility means no fair-mindedness means no integrity.
Our standards for our representatives and the position of POTUS need to be much, much higher.
Me being so adamantly against him doesn't mean I support those that are pretty much the same or worse as politicians, let alone as people. It means that I see our younger generations, our literal future, sabotage themselves along with the rest of us that have to live with their ill-conceived conclusions if they get the tyrannical majority they want so badly.
Seriously America... you're making me and the rest of the world sick.
The banks are evil, this makes me like him more.
>>673041740
How does it feel to be fat and nigger. 'murican?
>>673041740
In this logic, forcing people to use a safety belt while driving a car is bullshit
>>673041740
i could care less about this thread but that quote makes no sense, "our own money" ----> "lenders" . . . wat
>>673041977
Well it kinda is. Why should i be fined for not wearing a seat belt?
>>673042214
>Why not just encourage the guy standing on the tall building to jump
Because of humanity.
(And if you hurt yourself because of your retardedness you also cost money)
>>673042572
Cost money to who?
>>673041977
After seat belts were first made mandatory, there was a spike in automobile related deaths. This was attributed to people exaggerating their sense of security to the point of being more careless as drivers.
Google it.
Also, you're doing a lot of assuming to determine what my "logic" is or isnt.
Feel free to give us the context of what my logic presumably is and then quote what I've said that shows its more than an assumption...
...unless of course you're assuming that whatever you're saying my logic is is simply because I'm against, rather than for, Sanders.
>>673041740
Wait doesn't he support taxing not only deposits but withdraws from your personal bank account?
>>673042214
Found the tin foil hat Libertarian. Everybody can go home. No discussion here.
>>673042790
No.
>>673042820
Why do you say that? Tell me why i should be fined for not wearing a seat belt?
>>673042728
Good point, we should remove all security standards so there are less accidents.
Hurr Durr
Can any Sanders supporters invalidate anything I've said in the first three posts without a shadow of a doubt?
If so, feel free to explain how I'm not only wrong, but how you can be so sure that what I've said isn't true in even the slightest. I'll wait.
>>673041977
This isn't the same thing at all.
>>673043040
I never said or implied that. #Hurdur strawman
It was just a sidenote. Feel free to respond to the main point of my response rather than cherry-pick a strawman from it.
Also, you can thank capitalism for higher and higher safety standards.
People demanded them, so companies go up and beyond what government requires of them with innovation in hopes that they'll earn more customers that way.
I vote for Donald Sanders.
>>673042912
You cost the insurance company money if you get hurt. The laws aren't to protect you, it's so you have to pay into insurance, yet never get anything for it. Just like Obama care.
>>673043675
I voted Obama
But, but, but... I'm not a victim of my own choices. All my choices were perfect... the degree I went for that's going to be useless in the real world, the debt I voluntary chose to take on, and my choice to not seek less expensive alternative educations that had less risk in regards to being able to afford them. I want you to know how bad I'm in debt so you'll feel bad for me and yourself if you're in the same boat. I can't believe the world did this to us.
>>673043802
Exactly. I already pay the insurance company. It doesnt cost any innocents money
Laissez-faire works. The people have all of the power with their voting dollars regarding what businesses succeed and fail. The problem comes when society doesn't realize the responsibility it has with that power, let's things get out of hand, and then tasks government to fix the mess up they don't believe they're responsible for with what usually turns into government's mess up that they end up not taking responsibility for either.
>>673043947
Barackimir Husseinovich Obamin
Outside of pointing blame at others, when is the last time you remember government taking responsibility for the consequences of their individual and specific party's actions?
What is that? You can't remember?
Despite how much you like your favorite politician, how much you think they're trustworthy, and all of the positions you share, I think it's time to genuinely consider the possibility that they don't have the intellectual integrity needed for a job of so much responsibility.
I mean, when was the last time your favorite politician admitted being wrong where it didn't end up winning them political points with voters as a flip-flop in accordance with the voting majority's opinion?
Do you honestly believe that a free-thinking person's positions line up with society's just by coincidence and an intellectual's beliefs sway with the public opinion of a society mostly made up of non-intellectuals?
I guess everybody's favorite politician is either right about everything or at least about enough to completely ignore what they're wrong about and it's just everyone else who's wrong, misinformed, and confused.
Holds true for Bernie's supporters too. Despite the different positions and lifestyles, the cognitive dissonance regarding all of their bad qualities is the same.
The willful ignorance is worse than any position either could hold. It is little different from the denial of an addict. Apparently, it's human nature to feed an ego by defining it with detailed etched in stone beliefs that leave little room for correction or evolving because it's just not comfortable enough to allow. This is why a person simply disagreeing with someone will have that someone taking it as a personal attack and therefore there being a need to become defensive (to protect and maintain the ego, even if it means running away from the contrary information out of fear of it being right with a cop out, the equivalent of "being convinced a food tastes disgusting without trying it"... something a child does) or as a reason to feel better about themselves because the disagreeing person presumably put themselves below them by being wrong, the false sabotaging misconception that being wrong equals less self worth and a hit to the ego... something worth avoiding with cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance / willful ignorance is the maintaining of that belief defined ego no matter what... mostly through an intentional failure in reasoning and outright self-deceit. The collectivism found in either group maintains that ego collectively as well by promoting willful ignorance and stroking each others ego via confirmation bias.
>meanwhile
socialist countries that aren't the USSR are doing fine.
Another challenge for democrats, socialists, and other collectivists. The scenario is this: you and some of your friends went on a hike, and got lost in the woods. While you're trying to find your way back, which of the following "rights" do you still have?
1) The right to freedom of speech.
2) The right to affordable healthcare.
3) The right to be free from unreasonable searches.
4) The right to decent housing.
5) The right to worship (or not) however you see fit.
6) The right to a living wage.
I could add more, but hopefully you get the point. If you think #2, #4 and/or #6 would still be a "human right" in that scenario, then the follow-up question is this: who is obligated to give you those things, and who is oppressing you if you don't get them? (A bonus question could be, what are YOU obligated to provide to your comrades to provide them with their "rights"?)
>>673044563
Yes because the usa isnt doing "fine"
>>673044563
The countries you're referring to as "socialist" are more economically free than the US. While they heavily tax property and income, theyre rated the best in terms of low corporate taxes, meaning no need to hide money, no need to get government involved in crony capitalism, meaning more money to spend on their workers wages and benefits.
>>meanwhile in America
Coporations are vilified when government incentivized their behavior.
So, what? Work minimum wage? But that's no where near enough to live on.
>Get a better job!
How? All the positions are filled, and there is zero chance of getting a decent paying job without higher education.
>Go to school!
Okay, but it's completely unaffordable, and my minimum wage job can barely support my basic needs, let alone school.
>Take out a loan!
Now I'm in massive debt. Thanks.
>You did this to yourself!
Yeah, fuck you empathy-lacking pieces of shit.
>>673041740
Thankfully we have you on /b/ to educate the masses
>>673045052
Was meant for
>>673043953
Is the economy larger or smaller when you pull and combine the #1 policy from each area of taxation?
If it's larger and a larger economy means more jobs and less poverty, why don't we do it?
Because big government loves money and the power it gives it.
Bernie Sanders wants big money in government.
>>673045052
>facebook meme logic
Plenty of good jobs you can get with an HS degree.
Plenty of ways to pay for college that isnt loans, and plenty of places to get an education that isnt a four year.
If you take out more than you need, like the majority of college students, you didnt plan very well huh?
>>673041740
Yeah OP we're totally not slaves (the 90% of us you know, yeah not talking about you, cool for you if you have plenty of money.) and banks are poor little things, and they're completely innocent and want only our well-being.
>>673041740
who the fuck pays to withdraw their own money from their own bank?
I think Bernie has been using a competitors atm and paying the fees all these years.
>>673044566
what's it like being this fucking autistic.
you want to get right down to it, "in the woods" none of these things apply. So thank whatever god you choose (or none at all) we're not fucking wolves at each others throats just to get our next meal, but civilized reasoning human beings. All these "rights" are made up constructs to foster civilization. There's no reason we can't add to the list.
>>673044127
Interventionism is better.
Laissez-fairre only works in an perfect environment with no disturbance. It is rather idealistic.
Btw power through money isn't democratic but I believe in Democracy.
>>673045382
>Plenty of ways to pay for college that isnt loans
How? We don't all have daddy's money to use. And it isn't "more than what you need" It's literally the bare minimum if you want anything other $10/hr the rest of your life.
ATMs not ATM's, you stupid slow dumb son of a bitch.
>>673042686
Insurance payouts, the state workers that have to scrape you off of the road
>>673045959
>grants
>scholarships
>job while in school
It takes a lottle work but you can do all of these and get away with taking out a small loan each year. Most college students take out huge loans each year so they can pay for housing and bills, thats retarded. Get a job, and you are huffing paint if you think you cant get a good job without college
>>673046295
>ive been paying into insurance so is it really a loss to them
>ive been paying taxes
>>673044566
Why have you singled out 2,4,6? You're talking as if people think human rights are a natural law.
>>673045052
>So, what? Work minimum wage? But that's no where near enough to live on.
The reasons everything is so expensive is because of illconceived government involvement in the first place. Name an industry and I'll educate you.
Raising the minimum wage to cover up destructive policy leaves the destructive policy. In economics there are no solutions, only trade-offs. When most small businesses have little to no profit margin, plenty of debt, and fail in their first 5 years... I'm pretty sure forcing them to pay labor more hurts them tremendously. Sure they can raise prices before raising the wages, but then you're redistributing the middle and lower classes wealth with less purchasing power to the lower class while it impacts large businesses little by comparison. In fact, it helps them keep out competition and thus promotes monopolies and kills jobs that would otherwise exist if people had easier access to entrapanuership.
>How? All the positions are filled, and there is zero chance of getting a decent paying job without higher education.
>Okay, but it's completely unaffordable, and my minimum wage job can barely support my basic needs, let alone school.
Better paying jobs don't require 2-4 years of college to find. YouTube and Lynda.com ($25 a month) is enough to find yourself in an entry level position to get experience and then put yourself on the job market where experience and good references matters more than a degree.
Also, higher education offers guaranteed loans via the state and federal government, that while being the reason tuition became expensive in the first place and being a lot of debt to pay off, choosing an a very in demand degree/career can easily handle while everyone else is doing women's studies and fine arts.
>Now I'm in massive debt. Thanks.
Not if you found a less expensive alternative and chose a trade that society has ano actual need for.
>>673045052
>Yeah, fuck you empathy-lacking pieces of shit.
Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I lack empathy.
See what a difference there is with the responses when you don't assume what you want to believe so you can justify your attempt at discrediting me with ad hominem?
>>673046904
>Name an industry and I'll educate you.
by all means, professor, enlighten us as to your mad economics skillz.
>>673045959
Auto industry line worker here, I have only a GED and make around $90k a year, so do thousands of other people, not even our building's janitors make $10 an hour, lmao!
>>673045729
So, coercion is civil?
>>673046213
You're right. Me leaving what my phone auto corrected with, because I didn't anticipate your high grammatical standards justifies the personal attack. Gotcha.
>>673047461
You wrote that much shit on your phone? You're a bigger idiot than I thought.
>>673047636
I use speech to text and make very quick corrections. See, I work 40 hours a week and need to multitask.
>>673047207
You didn't name an industry.
>>673047269
This.
I have a buddy. He got his GED. He has been working since he was 17. Now he only works three days a week and makes 25 an hour. House paid off, cars paid off. Says he is planning on retiring at 50
>>673047294
>coercion
dafuq? I didn't have to coerce your mom last night, she put that shit up willingly.
who is "obligated" to give me 1,3 and 5 from your own fucking list, Robespierre? "god"? mickey mouse? george clooney? There's no "coercion" involved you fucking libertarian twatstick. You do these things because at some point you may be the one on the receiving end. Fucking liberarian fuckstains. ITS MINE MINE ALL MINE THERES NOBODY BUT ME. Hang yourself.
>>673047986
surprise me, sensei
>>673048292
You cant even be bothered to give him an industry
>>673045457
Actually you're not. No one forced you into your current situation. I make 48k on the low end of the middle class at a company I started working for right after working at Boston Market at min wage.
If I put myself in the job market I could make more, easily and simply haven't found the time.
Are you really claiming you hold zero responsibility for your situation or you couldn't have made better decisions along the way?
Did you take full advantage of the "free" high school education you were offered?
Did you work while in high school, even if under the table doing odd jobs?
Did you attempt a degree or certification that's actually worth a damn?
>>673048462
fine. sex toy manufacturing. your move.
>>673048250
Negative rights don't require coercion and are in place to protect people from each other and our own (originally meant to be limited) government.
That one post is actually not mine btw.
>>673048292
Either pick one that you're absolutely sure about or dont. I'm not going to waste my time when Google is right there if you're completely ignorant on a subject. However, if you think you know enough and are right where I'm supposedly wrong, I'd love to correct you.
>>673048648
A manufacturing industry, like many others, where the jobs were moved elsewhere because government incentivized businesses to by making it more expensive here than there.
The exception being where a business innovates a product that they have become the best at to a point of huge market share, which makes it worthwhile to keep it at home... especially when they do all the work and can charge more of their unique and high quality product, like Real Dolls for instance.
Wait, you Americans pay money to get cash out of your own account?
Christ you really are retarded, you know the rest of the civilised world got rid of that shit a long time ago?
>>673049183
Boom
Even the small number of economists for (in comparison to those against) the $15 minimum wage admit that prices would first have to rise... which means the loss of purchasing power which negates the pay increase.
The Congressional Budget Commitee estimates large job losses as well.
>>673049301
The vast majority of people do not. If you read the original post, you'd know that.
>>673048886
No, I just wanted to see how many you could come up with off the top of your head, professor.
>>673049183
I really thought you were going to go for something a little less obvious. See below.
>>673049333
Is that the sound of your Chinese-sourced Li ion battery exploding because of unregulated shitty labor, materials, and quality control?
(Also note my own post)
Statists don't like when you compare the theft of taxation to rape because they don't like being reminded that government exists in violation of the consent of the individual. Talking about their preference for aggression in plain terms interferes with their pathological altruism, thereby depriving them of the serotonin/dopamine hit that their false moral high ground provides them. This is why people act like withdrawing drug addicts when you talk shit about the superstition of government. They experience the criticism as though you just flushed their drugs down the toilet, and they lash out accordingly.
>>673049301
at least we have paper currency and not shiny trinkets and chickens that we barter for goods and services...
>>673049882
Then I guess it's a good thing we can incentivized businesses to use safe products with our voting dollars and sue the shit out of them for damages.
Incentives matter more than laws.
>>673041740
I didn´t know bankers browsed /b/
>>673049895
>Statists
top kek Grizzly Adams
>government exists in violation of the consent of the individual.
ooooohhh brother.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Against our will."
Wait that last part isn't there, is it? Christ on a stick.
>>673050240
Not a banker. Korean Linguist turned Boston market chicken master chef turned IT proffesional.
>>673050287
Like I said, not my words.
"Promoting welfare" for some does not mean violating the "blessings of liberty" of others.
>>673050149
>implying you have any dollars to vote with because nobody pays you shit and rent is due
>implying your precious "free market" hasn't resulted in a monopoly and there's only BigBatteryCo to get batteries from, whether or not they kill you
>implying pic related
any of this sinking in yet?
I guess we should make some people rich in some places while only giving a living wage to the rest.
>>673042214
Totally agree Anon.
If I wanna drive 3 blocks to buy groceries for my family going no faster than 25 MPH, what right does a police officer have to pull me over and charge me $148?
>>673041740
You have to pay in America? LOL
>>673050841
>implying government has stopped monopolies
>implying class action lawsuits arent a thing
>>673051043
Exactly, it is just revenue generation
>>673051052
If you're an idiot
>>673050841
Implying that the combination of the bad decisions in your life that you refuse to acknowledge coupled with the many ways in which the government hurts the economy and promotes the high rate of cost of living increases across the board... I'd say yourenough up a shit creek and hopefully others have a chance to learn from your mistakes before the consequences are mitigated by the state.
I'm not 100% against welfare, just as long as it comes with enough stipulations that a person would choose escaping a poverty trap rather than stay in one.
There is more than one place to get batteries and some are proven to be much safer than others. Apparently being a knowledgeable consumer is too much hard work and must be handed off to government which still can't guarantee anything.
>>673041740
Because it is relatable to the hivemind.
I'm voting for Sanders, but I can't fucking stand the average Bernie supporter. Most of them are just as blind and mindless as the Trump supporters.
You're paying for convenience.
Bernie doesn't even know what an 'adjective' is so I don't even understand how anyone can support this retard.
>>673051667
Look at his competition...
>>673041952
I don't know. How's it feel to have Abdul and his buddies fiddle your wife and daughter. Don't speak out though!!!! Don't want to seem intolerant ;)
>>673051654
I feel like I'm wasting my vote on trump, hillary, or bernie... so I'm going 3rd party where the "protest votes" actually belong.
All three have horrible consequences. I'm not going to choose the color of shit I'm going to be forced to eat just because one color is more appealing to my interests.
>>673051636
tl;dr version: durr just make more monies poorfag
If we can assume that she really believes the lies she tells, please realize that all that means is she joins the vast majority of the human race in its life-long addiction induced cases of cognitive dissonance.
If lying about lying makes her a horrible person, you're probably not that much better. The ego will have you do a lot of bias led flawed thinking to protect itself.
>>673052175
You are acting like it is impossible
>>673042572
>because of humanity
This is most retarded reason I've ever heard in my fucking life.
I shouldn't want old people who do nothing but rot away in care centers to die so taxes are lower...because humanity.
I shouldn't want the mentally and physically disabled who are so disabled they are carried until they are in the ground to be purged so that my healthcare system isn't being crippled by cripples...but humanity.
I shouldn't hate niggers because they rob and steal from people...because humanity right?
Go fuck yourself...for humanity.
>>673052295
and you're acting like its easy. like your mom.
>>673052175
Never said and/or implied this. #Strawman
>>673052390
Im not even that anon, but it really isnt hard to make money in America.
>>673041740
ATM fees are a multibillion dollar a year revenue draw. Being this stupid physically hurts me.
>>673052390
No one said life was supposed to be easy. Being upset that it's easier for some and not yourself is envy. #DoesntLookGoodOnYou
>>673052295
It depends on who you are, and where you stand.
Not everyone has the same financial mobility, it is entirely possible that anon has already hit the glass ceiling.
While it is possible that he/she could transition to a more profitable career, that would require significant time and money that is already tied up into day to day expenditure.
>>673052558
A multi-billion revenue draw that people can avoid putting money into with better planning/decisions and choosing banks that offer a lot of free ATMs or even rebates. The freedom to choose is also the freedom to be stupid and the freedom to choose decisions that bring a higher risk of being poor.
>>673042214
>>673042572
Seat belts can cause deaths too bud. Don't legislate stupidity. If you drive 100 mph with no seat belt and get flung into traffic, your fault.
If you drive into a lake for whatever reason and your belt gets jammed during the impact and drown. Too bad.
Seat belts saving you will always depend on what accident occurs. Dashboards are going to hold you in place too.
Cops usually report no seatbelts in reports involving fatalities, skewing the statistics
>>673041740
>powerful political wizard of oz
He and Hillary remind me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX7HaRcjb_k
>>673052640
and there's the "poorfags just jelly" card. you guys are fucking predictable.
I'm doing quite well thanks. Not everyone has the same opportunities for upward mobility I had. It's even worse now than it was for me. Maybe we can change that stupid wild-west 'murica I built everything bullshit.
>>673052807
Not necessarily. Just because some people have it harder doesnt mean that it is impossible. It sucks that some people arent born in good circumstances, i will agree but it is very possible for them to better themselves. It will be more difficult, but will it not be better than staying in the current circumstances?
This past weekend, some friends and I went out and came upon a used video game store. Once inside we found a man, looking like he had a hard life, trying to sell some games to the store "hopefully for cash". His story was that for the last few days he had only been eating peanut butter out of a jar and he was hoping he could buy a loaf of bread to go with it, at least until his food stamps came in.
He then went over to the handheld game section that was sitting in the glass counter's shelf. Started asking questions regarding Pokémon games, games known to cost a lot more than most used titles. He then went on to say that he planned on picking one up after his social security check came in. Granted, this person wasn't old enough to be getting social security for being retired.
One of my friends noticed that he received a $10 bill for his trade-ins, yet when the other employee asked him what he got, he claimed it was only $2 and hoped it was enough for the bread.
Now, he could have simply been fantasizing about making the purchase of the game he couldn't really afford and he could have only received $2 for the trade-in with the first employee giving him an additional $8 of his own money after consolidating the bills... but you have to ask yourself... is it really all that unbelievable that this person would lie in hopes for more charity or would buy games he couldn't afford while living in poverty?
Even if this wasn't the case with this particular person... how many people receiving taxpayer funded subsidies are spending that money on things they do not need... on luxaries... rather than saving where they can to better their lives for the future?
How is it morally right for people earning a living to be forced to pay for others' luxaries?
Daily reminder that Sanderistas are on the same mental level as /pol/tards.
Fuck you OP, my bank re-arranging the order of my payments over the weekend so as to maximize overdraft charges (the cost of which THEY set, they could charge me $35 or $10 if they wanted) and overdraft me over and over and over is some bullshit.
The case that this poor person having a video game to play as their only form of entertainment doesn't outweigh the moral grounds being violated in that last question and it doesn't justify their decision to choose a video game over bettering their life when others are being forced to pay for it.
If I knew this guy was legitimately trying to better himself, I would buy him the game myself and maybe $20 for some groceries... but that simply wasn't the case. Instead, I'm forced to help someone who's not willing to help them self.
There's a big difference between "hating the poor" and hating those that choose to stay living within a "poverty trap" with the same behaviors and decisions that drove or kept them into poverty in the first place.
When someone chooses the poverty trap over independence when the opportunity is there... you know their true priority is an easier life regardless of the cost to others... not one of moral responsibility for themselves.
When that's the case, the "opportunity" afforded to them goes completely in vain.
How is that any different than the moral fiber of those vilified as the stereotypical rich person making boat loads of money off of others' labor while themselves presumably "doing nothing" to deserve it?
Double standards are an example of flawed thinking and avoiding the acknowledgement of flawed thinking is an example of even deeper flawed thinking, a non/pseudo-intellectual doing everything in their power to stay a non/pseudo-intellectual, because it's easier that way and still allows them to believe their virtue has them acting virtuously and ultimately feed and maintain their ego.
Taking the easy way over the morally responsible way while avoiding acknowledgement of that fact is where you find the common denominator with most politicians' supporters, especially #BernieSanders'.
Reading and regurgitating arguments you agree with isn't enough to call yourself informed, you have to be able to defend them fairly and honestly as well.
>>673053177
>luxaries
I fucking hate when I have to pay for some fucking poorfag's fucking luxaries. Or education even.
>>673053177
lol I work and thus I can afford more than a $8 game. he doesn't and that's what he gets. What's the issue exactly?
Also lol if you buy whatever someone tells the pawnbroker when trying to get the most out of them.
Angry bitter assholes everywhere on the internet these days. Usually broke ass college kids themselves.
>>673053259
You know you can opt out of that right?
ooooh I'm FORCED to help people I'm FORCED to pay taxes oooooh boo hooooo the social contract is UNFAIR
go live in the yukon then retards. I'm sick and tired of being 'forced' to subsidize your internet by paying taxes for infrastructure.
>>673052946
That may be true. It's also true that once you redline financially, it is significantly harder to bring yourself back up beyond the poverty line. Quite a few of these fees are unavoidable, with many (note: not all.) low income areas devoid of credit unions, or banking in general, it becomes increasingly harder to get your money when you need it.
Most people living check to check in low income areas actually don't use ATMs at all, and subsist by cashing their check for a fee through 3rd party methods. Those that do use banking are hit with overdraft fees, or god forbid they have to take out a loan to pay of last month's debt.
>>673052640
True.
>>673052427
Also true.
>>673052480
As I said earlier, that really depends.
>>673053069
I never said "just" and I've fully explained the positions more than that. I feel bad that you're desperate enough to continue using strawman and willful ignorance to avoid considering anything but what you want to see.
>>673053560
>social contract
when did I sign this social contract?
>>673053451
Yeah, it's still predatory. Wells Fargo and B of A just lost fat lawsuits over it.
Pretending that banks do nothing wrong when they collect billions a year in fees on top of reaping the collective interest from loaning/investing your deposits is hilarious to me. People just love to defend the rich man fucking them in the asshole.
>>673053655
when your mom squeezed you out of her floppy uterus.
>>673053655
lmao here we go
you live here don't you? you use our infrastructure don't you?
the only moral use of taxes is when they are used to help you, right?
angry college libtards mad about the social contract on 4chan, this and more at 10
>>673053716
Im not defending the rich, man. Im just saying if you are opening up a bank account you should at least read the contract you are going to sign
>>673053716
Didn't Bank of America have a scandal several years back along these lines???
>>673053069
There are observable trend differences in 57% of those that get themselves out of the lowest income quintile and those that stay there, very much like how 60% of those born in the top quintile drop into the lower 4.
Why can a rich person fail at staying rich (making decisions that make them poorer), but a poor person can't make decisions that keep them as poor or worse?
>>673053922
My contract stated that if my savings account couldn't cover they'd overdraft and charge me a $27 fee.
My contract DID NOT state that they would re-arrange the sequence of payments (in once instance processing a Sunday transaction at Safeway before one at the same store that previous Friday night) so as to hit me with as many overdraft charges as they can.
>>673054171
>not knowing certain stores do holds on transactions, not a fault of the bank
Also, why didnt you opt out? You dont need overdraft protection m8
Honestly Bernie is a pretty based Jew. Not all banks are usurious, but a lot of them are and he's right to call them out.
>>673053259
Use a bank with better policies.
Stop putting the responsibility on everyone else when you still have a choice to make as an adult.
Vote with your dollars by leaving and going elsewhere where they treat you better.
>>673053834
I would like my taxes to go constitutional functions of government that the private market cannot provide.
>>673053813
I was born by Caesarian fyi, also babies can't sign legally binding contracts.
To illustrate:
Had $100 in my account. Friday made 3 charges, total of $20. Saturday made 4 charges, total of $50. Sunday, used the wrong card and charged $80 on the account. My mistake, charge me the fee.
What they actually did was run the $80 first, then a $30 from saturday, then charge me overdraft fees on the other 6 transactions on Friday and Saturday. The fuck is that?
>>673053716
fine, just keep your money under your mattress.
>>673054510
It's how they getcha.
>>673054397
Cool, I did.
First of all most banks did this until Wells Fargo lost a lawsuit over it.
Second of all, sure I can leave but that doesn't make it okay that this is a standard practice designed to fuck people over.
Why is it okay that banks are allowed to be predatory like this? "Sucks for some people fuck 'em?" Really?
>>673054510
Bank of America has been known to do this. You can call and have the extra fees removed, but it is a tremendous hassle. They bank on the fact that there will be some who don't argue it, and it pays off for them.
>>673053433
I explained it already and you missed it. The point is is that he can't really afford the game, but says he will buy it anyway. "Afford" being as in, he should probably stockpile some more food first rather than falling back to a jar of peanut butter.
People shouldn't have to pay for his perpetual irresponsible, and in turn, selfish, decisions.
Is your new argument for Bernie that's he's going to stop annoying banking fees? Are you pathetic Sanderistas so lost, confused, and lazy that you're going to elect a president on the basis of the most trivial bullshit imaginable? Is Bernie also going to stop cords from being tangled in one's pockets? Give me a bloody break.
Plus if you really want to get into bullshit we can fast forward 10 years and talk about my brokerage/fund fees and maintenance on retirement funds and all the myriad of other ways banks fuck people over that are much more difficult to catch out.
>>673054510
>>673054675
Why were you spending so much money, when you didnt have it? Why didnt you opt out of the over drafts? Also the point of losing a lawsuit brings around, why does the government need to get involved?
>>673054510
>>673053259
How bout you fags just stop spending more money than you have?
It doesn't matter what fucking order they charge you in if you spend more than you have. Fucking retards, l2finance.
>>673054025
>Why can a rich person fail at staying rich (making decisions that make them poorer), but a poor person can't make decisions that keep them as poor or worse?
entropy? you're absolutely right, but making well-informed decisions about important life-altering stuff requires education.
while we're bringing up strawmen and shit, an amazon headhunter doesn't even have a fucking clue that there's a better world out there for him. That his fault he hasn't "chosen" to pursue it? If you don't know about the opportunities, or you're told you can't have them... guess what. you don't choose them.
Tell that spear-chucking jungle bunny that all he has to do is read some books, learn some shit, get a job and buy his monkey meat at the store instead of slogging around in the bush all day, and then give him a hand up, show him how its done and he'd probably be all over that shit. contribootin, makin monies, paying taxes, buying hookers and blow like a bigtime CEO, etc.
>>673053580
Government put a restriction on where banks could open up new branches, unless they offered credit to people who shouldn't have received credit in those areas. This is what led to the 2008 recession.
There would be more access to banking if it weren't for government.
>>673054742
oh a broke ass person isn't able to manage money very well, shocking. he def should die in the street then you're right.
my point is that he was lying about it being his last $10 in order to scam some sympathy money from the pawn store clerk and he is gonna go home to a gameboy but whatever
>>673054773
his point is that banks are allowed to do whatever they want, which is a fair one imo
>>673054994
Damn.
ITT: Sanders supporters complain that they don't understand how banking charges work.
>>673054395
Not a Sandsers hater but I like that pic. Although I'm not quiet familiar with the laws about sign belongings. Does it belong to Sander's party or is it public property and the theft stole from himself?
>>673055097
>his point is that banks are allowed to do whatever they want,
well they aren't. They're massively regulated and have been for decades.
>>673055172
Private property
>>673053834
Wait, so you deserve free healthcare and education because you exist and we agree on a social contract by simply existing.
What else do we get and agree to from just existing?
>>673055066
Well that is depressing, and morosely counterintuitive. I didn't know that.
>>673054916
I did have it. I already said I used the wrong card. Sometimes people can have more than one account for various reasons.
Legislation is better than suits because a) you don't need to pay to fight the banks lawyers and b) the end result of the suit is the bank pays a penalty that doesn't really make it not worth continuing the practice or trying to find other ways to game the system. Like when BP was fined some hilariously small amount for the Gulf oil spill.
>>673055117
Are you trying to prove a point? Because you know I don't see no arguments...
>>673055242
I work in the finance industry - lol to that.
>>673055290
>so you deserve free healthcare and education because you exist
don't you?
>>673055356
>The stories posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
>Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
>>673055305
You barely had the money. M8 if i only have 100 in the bank, im not spending any of it. Sorry you dont understand finaces
>>673055321
just making an observation. the argument is implicit.
>>673055290
idk man learn some basic European history and some philosophy - especially the bits the founding fathers based the USA on like Roussaau - and generally be less of a retarded fuckwit and you'll have your answer
All these people bit ching about bullshit. America allows the citizens to vote. Don't like the end result? Too fucking bad. If a majority of people want something, we all go along with it, its part of living in civilified society. Left or right, suck it up. Be firm in your beliefs, but allow society to guide itself. The loud minority wins when we all lie down but we fail as a whole when we become inflexible in our beliefs. No two people believe the same things, we sort out our difference by allowing the majority to rule or meeting in the middle. Kicking and screaming abut how everyone else is wrong while covering your ears and not hearing the other side is a waste of time. This whole thread is what is wrong with america.
>>673055414
No.
>>673051052
99.999999% of people don't, no. The remaining 0.000001% are complete retards + Bernie Sanders apparently.
>>673055505
Mate that was an account I used for bill pay so it didn't have very much sitting in it. At the time I was making $50k a year and had $5k in my savings account with my credit union. Sorry you don't understand that adults have various accounts for various things sometimes.
And tbh if I was that broke then what the bank did in that instance was even more fucked up.
>>673055505
I work in restaurants, and it is pretty damn common for people here to spend their entire budget by the next check.
Not everyone is as mindful, or as thorough in their delayed gratification. It's possible that anon is young as well.
>>673041740
I'm genuinely ashamed and embarassed of the time I spent supporting Sanders. The guy is a total fucking idiot. Wake up, niggers,
>>673055414
Fuck no.
>>673055611
why dude?
From a purely economic argument it is to the country's benefit to have a healthy educated workforce. From a purely moral argument, I don't want fellow citizens suffering.
I really don't get people like you. It's affordable. It can be done. Other countries have done it and are just fine. Stop swallowing supply side bullshit and conservative propaganda.
>>673055760
>what the bank did
Oh the bank went out and spent more money than you had for you....
ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED?
>>673042214
Well actually, seat belts can cause injuries and death to other people if you do not wear one, so legislating for it makes sense.
like it's legit better to have a healthy educated workforce purely from a cold calculating money/econ argument so really ya'll are just being petulant libtards
>>673055931
If I have a right to healthcare it is good to enslave doctors.
>>673054510
>implying all charges are sent to the bank the instant they are made
>implying credit processors are under the control of your bank.
>>673055760
I understand having different accounts retard. So let me get this straight you made a mistake, didnt protect yourself from these mistakes by opting out of the program, and had the money to pay for these mistakes, yet you are bitching? Sounds to me like you had it coming, and deserved it
>>673055943
If you see nothing wrong with what the bank did in the instance of REARRANGING THE ORDER OF PAYMENTS SUCH THAT THEY COULD COLLECT MORE FEES THAN THEY WERE DUE then you're just a fucking moron, sorry.
They already lost a lawsuit over this, as did Bank of America.
>>673055943
I'm not that anon, but this is contorting the statement he made a bit.
What the bank did was manipulate the order of transactions to maximize the overdraft fee, and that is ethically wrong.
>>673056086
>enslave doctors
>>673056111
Same store, 3 days apart? Yeah the teller tried to give me that line too until I pointed out it was literally the same merchant processor.
I run 2 online retail stores - payment shit happens fucking instantly in 2016 friend.
>>673056086
this is the dumbest shit ever
I guess all medical professionals in every other civilized country are 'enslaved' lmao I mean just listen to yourself
>>673055051
The information of opportunities is available to anyone that wants more than what they think they can have.
Example: Kid told he can't amount to anything, horrible public education, wants to make sure he's not being fed a bunch of shit, uses Google or tells someone he trusts his situation and that he wants more, profit.
It is the headhunters fault if he explored until he finally gave up and decided that in all directions is just more jungle.
Deciding to conclude something even though there's still a chance you're wrong is a personal choice and therefore, is their fault.
>>673056264
How come gas stations put holds on charges? Since it is current year, shouldnt it be instant
>>673056158
>I have 100$
>I spend 150$
You're a fucking retard, kill yourself you dumb fucking nigger.
>>673056168
Like I said, it doesn't fucking matter what order they went in to maximize shit, he decided to spend more than he had, not the banks fucking problem he was an idiot.
If he didn't spend more than he had, he wouldn't of been charged any kind of fees.
>>673056264
and either way the bank has sole discretion over determining overdraft fees - they could easily say 'no more than 1 per 24 hr period' but they purposefully want to get more money.
this has already been proven in court and they lost idk why you people are so butthurt about it.
>>673056361
product of RWNJ propaganda. if it ain't "right" then its wrong. There isn't any gray area with these guys.
Banks and the people who run them are thieves
>>673056468
because it isn't a hold, it's an authorization that happens to make sure you have enough money in your account before the actual charge is CAPTURED.
>>673056479
all i read is 'I'm a dumb fuck retard who disagrees with a circuit court ruling because I want to be a fuckwit on the internet'
>>673047269
>>673048245
>going on the internet and making shit up
>>673056414
There is fallacy here.
You lay the burden upon the child, but expect that resolution come from an external source.
In the cited example, the child's entire fate is upon finding someone that he can trust to have his best interest in mind.
You preach agency, but practice equity.
>>673056414
I actually lol'd.
You politically concerned faggots so realize that no matter who gets voted in, you will bitch about their achievements and failures, then at the end of their term all the "I told you so" and "what a huge mistake that was" will start pouring out
>>673056695
If thats all you read, I don't think you are very literate, should probably hit up some hooked on phonics.
>>673056719
>claiming shit is false to justify your excuses
#justberniethings
>>673056479
You have a point, and in a perfect world you would be 100% correct. Insulting him doesn't help your point though, and sometimes people do not have enough money to pay their month to month debts.
And yes, this can happen to hard working people.
>>673055097
You read the story wrong. He claimed to have no money, received $10, lied saying it was only $2, and then talked about buying a game when he's also claiming he needed the money because he only has half a jar of peanut butter.
In that case... it's a good thing people were forced to give him their money, otherwise he wouldn't have his game and second jar of peanut butter.
The responsible and less selfish thing of him to do is spend the money with purpose it was taken from someone else, so that he could stop living from jar to jar of peanut butter and instead bought more food or saved it until he really needed it.
it's amazing to me that the US has produced a generation of people who gladly take it up the ass and proclaim they want more
like holy shit your ancestors who fought and died for labor rights would be ashamed
>>673041740
adult diaper, laxatives, HIV medication
>>673041740
I get real tired of two things...
> right wing lecturing personal responsibility
> left wing looking for excuses and handouts
>>673056988
>implying now is then
>>673055051
>If you don't know about the opportunities, or you're told you can't have them... guess what. you don't choose them.
Are you seriously that fucking retarded? Look at all the shit that man has invented over the course of its existence. Cavement didn't roll out of the dave and say "shit, I don't know fire exists, so fuck it there's no such thing as heat, everybody back in the cave". You have to FIND opportunities, not have them handed to you. Fucking Bernie is destroying the country.
>>673056825
Yes.
Also, this thread hasn't been about Bernie for a while.
>>673054535
lol what a faggot you
I'm with a union
>>673056952
Nah, he doesn't have a point. The bank and I contractually agreed to one thing, and they conspired to loophole my ass in bad faith.
They and other banks have already lost in court over this. Paying an overdraft fee is one thing, purposefully rearranging payments such to take more fees is another.
I don't understand why it has to be 100% fault on either one side or another. YES, I made a mistake and used the wrong card, BUT ALSO the bank acted unethically.
>>673055931
What makes you think free education will lead to more STEM majors instead of a whole country on Rumspriga. 4 years getting high and studying art history as an excuse to get 4 years of free room and board while you party.
Those who can't afford education already get it free. Those who can easily afford it do. Those of us in the middle have the option of going into school or into a trade. With an engineering degree I have had no problem paying off my loans, same for my friends in business, chemistry, actuarial services. My friends with English degrees working at a bank, social services degree doing paperwork for a shipping company, women's studies working for a non-profit, wasted their money and are in a bind. Education is and should be a decision of financial responsibility. Don't think 18 yearOlds are smart enough for those decisions? That's not a problem of higher education, it's a problem of our current public education. I for one don't want to see our colleges turn into the shit hole that our public education system is. Our 4 year degrees will become the new GED.
Don't compare America to other countries, it is not other countries. This is a country of handouts. Want to make a comparrison, compare it to Greece and tell me how great the European model is.
>>673057252
Did it say in the contract that they would not do what they did?
>>673056952
Holy christ.
If you can't pay your month to month debts, you are financially irresponsible and have done nothing but dig your own grave and complained when they started to shovel the dirt onto you.
Exception would be some unforeseen shit like medical bills, storm damage, ect. shit you can't account for until it happens.
If you can't keep track of your income and spending, you are just a child who has no concept of money and how its used. Don't live outside your scope if you can't and complain when your broke.
>>673057188
Sorry, I just entered and cbf reading through the entire thread.
>>673057252
>You should not spend beyond your means.
This is a great point, but I didn't say that he was contextually correct in your disagreement.
>>673056086
>"enslave"
>"Make them do their job which they'll get paid for doing anyway"
>>673057324
>implying the point of an educated populace is to create an army of STEM majors.
take the fucking blinders off you tunnel-vision havin twat
>>673055575
Or you can just answer the question since you have it already.
>>673057324
what makes you think anyone is really just talking about a blank check to go to any 4 year school for any major as opposed to modeling it after another successful country?
In Germany you have to test into university (or you can go to trade school or work), and you have 3 chances to pass your shit or the state stops paying. What's wrong with that?
Public education is a shithole right now because of GOP policies over the last 15 years or so. That's a whole separate thread.
Comparing the USA to Greece is lol. For one thing we control our own monetary system and for another we're the richest nation in the world.
>>673057143
Jesus, the autism is strong with this one. Who the fuck said anything about getting "handed" shit? If you don't know fire exists, how are you supposed to choose it? It's one thing to see a fire and go "well fuck, I want some of that hot as fuck shit, how do i get it?" and another to just randomly pull fire out of your divinely gifted ass and go "hey what the fuck is this OW fuck that's hot!" Bitch please.
>>673057656
Also Greece is corrupt as shit and always has been. Even if you feel like the US is corrupt, it doesn't hold a candle to how shitty Greece is run.
>>673055784
YouNeedABudget.com
31years old and fiance has worked in many restaurants.
Sadly, the only career path in restaurants is higher scale restaurants for larger tips or the slim chance of staying long enough to become management.
That being said, those people put themselves in a position where that was presumably the best job they could find.
bernie is advocating for policy that would have been conservative in 1970.
if you are seriously thinking he will destroy the country then, as someone who works in the finance industry and has dual degrees in economics and business, you're fucking off your rocker mate.
look, it's simple. Consumer spending drives the economy. When people don't have money to buy shit, everyone suffers. Supply side "tax cuts for my buddies" policies have created a situation where the average person has jack shit all to spend while the wealth accumulates at the top. THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. It simply is a fucked situation and if nothing is done to change it we WILL have economic upheaval after upheaval after upheaval.
>>673057452
You are operating under the assumption that everyone makes enough money to subsist, and that isn't true.
Yes, if you make more than you need to survive and you fail to allocate your funds correctly then it is your fault. Not everyone makes enough money to hold your stance.
I worked 60 hour work weeks in 2015, at one point in time I did not have a day off for 3 months. My yearly income before taxes was 18,000 dollars. I never lived outside my scope, but I did go wanting.
Anecdotal evidence aside, I hope you never incur an outstanding debt.
>>673057143
>Cavement didn't roll out of the dave and say "shit
>>673042790
No?
>>673056264
So we are just going to make shit up, add in facts, and make untrue assumptions. No matter how I try and discuss this you will come back with a new story and add in new facts to make you right. I'm not even going to bother pointing out your other inconsistencies because you'll tell me your brother works for a bank and he told you that's not how it works, or you did the same thing last week with different results, or you can't change banks because there is only one in a 100 mile radius. If you can't be honest on an anonymous forum, I can't expect you to be honest with yourself. Keep up those mental gymnastics, live that fantasy, I support you to the end.
ITT: anecdotes are now truth
>>673058375
bro itt 4chan retards argue against court decisions awarding hundreds of millions of dollars to B of A customers due to unethical overdraft policies
idk what else to tell you. they were sued over it. they lost. fuck off already.
>>673058604
nah it isn't ever a bank's fault
>>673056741
It's a very very vague example. The actual point is made thereafter in response to your own long example.
Please respond to that rather than choosing only to respond to my weak example.
The kid can find someone to trust. It's a matter of whether he already concluded that he can't trust anyone or if after trying to find someone for awhile, giving up, like the headhunter.
We're talking young adults in this case who have nearly fully developed brains.
If you want to save young children from sabotaging parents, being the change you seek in the world.
>>673057656
Are you really going to gloss over the minority and feminist agenda, do you really thing in this society you'll be able to tell people what education you can get. No African American studies - racist, no women's studies - sexist, etc. If someone tests out of the system, its rigged against blacks or women, or an issue of class. As it is now there are women's studies majors complaining that mysoginy is keeping women out of engineering as opposed to women doing stupid sit like women's studies. Every problem is societies and based on persecution, not one of the individual. Do you think handouts will some how bring back personal accountability?
>>673058604
So you think after that they are going to continue those exact policies. As a "business owner" you should know that if you do the exact same thing the penalties will be much harsher. You can get away with unethical bullshit once on each technicality, after that shirt comes down hard.
>>673056741
THIS
>>673058952
>Deciding to conclude something even though there's still a chance you're wrong is a personal choice and therefore, is their fault.
>If you want to save young children from sabotaging parents, being the change you seek in the world.
Fair enough. I can agree with this stance, I'll learn to be more patient in my interpretations next time.
>>673056990
I'd have to do research on the first two... but HIV meds is easy
>>673058965
dude take a deep breath and listen to yourself, for real.
Minority and feminist agenda? You sound like a crackpot. You're keeping America from joining the rest of the Western world with reasonable healthcare costs and reasonable education costs because you are afraid of some mythical internet agenda.
Why don't you just look up how it's done in other countries before you assume you know how it'll be done here then argue against your own made up system? No one in Germany told me what I could or couldn't major in.
Who is talking about handouts? I'm talking about not having to spend $400/mo on health insurance that covers nothing. I'm talking about not having students graduate already in crippling debt. I'm talking about shit most of the rest of the world has already agreed is a good thing and has been implemented and works fine.
>>673059298
Depends on what you're talking about - sure B of A suspended that particular policy and did some other shit. I don't bank there anymore. My point is the regulation is so lax they can just basically keep trying to fuck people anyway they can and it isn't really a big deal (obviously, as seen on this thread).
In other cases it's a simple health/violation/warning/fine - like if someone dies on your work site you might have to pay an OSHA fine but 9 times out of 10 you don't actually have to change any policies or regulations - this happens with agricultural work all the time. The OSHA max fine for death on a worksite is hilariously tiny, btw. I remember a couple teens getting pulled into a silo and getting killed and the company had to pay out like less than $10k total.
>>673059534
>the rest of the Western world with reasonable healthcare costs and reasonable education costs
Because being taxed anywhere from 60-85% of your income is reasonable right?
> I'm talking about not having to spend $400/mo on health insurance that covers nothing
It covers you when you want to get immediate healthcare and not wait 3 months to have that pain in your side investigated.
Do you even know how taxes and the healthcare system works?
OP HERE:
I gotta jet, but it was nice knowing that not a single person here was able to invalidate the possibility of the 3 original posts beine true.
In fact, no one even attempted it.
Me 1 Bernie Supporters 0
Gnight everyone.
>>673057324
>Implying everyone should have skill-sets and interests within STEM majors/career fields
>Implying the only reason people go to college is to waste it by partying
>>673059917
see you're just pissed about shit you have no idea about. Where in the Western world is there a 60-85% marginal tax rate on the middle class?
>>673059917
Do you? I've lived for 2 years in Germany, 20 years in the USA, and 4 in various other countries. I've never once had an issue or even heard about an issue with socialized medicine where someone needed immediate healthcare and had to wait 3 months. The waiting times are typically the equivalent of what you'd expect in the USA in terms of making a doctor's appointment. If it is urgent, you go in right away. If it isn't, you wait a few days.
The US healthcare system is a joke. It sucks. You're all being bamboozled and you love it. Pharma companies charge the USA ridiculous rates under the guise of R&D costs - turns out taxpayer money pays for those in the form of grants anyway. You're being had.
>>673058130
FUCKING THIS
>>673043999
False. If you die and the insurance company has to pay out, it comes out of the pool generated by premiums. My money also goes into that pool, which needs to grow to accommodate the retarded choices of narcissistic pricks like thee.
>>673059917
just to illustrate:
Germany's MAXIMUM income tax rate is 45%, and that only kicks in at 250,000+ euros/year.
>>673060235
hush now, you'll ruin his American wet dream
>>673060235
>Do you?
I stopped reading right there.
>>673060415
also on this note, the bigger the risk pool is the better it is for everyone in it by definition. another argument for a single payer system that is sure to be ignored.
>>673060531
be proud of your ignorance I guess
>>673060627
Coming from the guy who wants me to pay his medical bills...
Go fuck yourself and enjoy choking on Bernies dick.
>>673060733
you pay more in insurance premiums than you otherwise would in taxes to support a single payer system which will be not only cheaper but also provide a better quality of care for everyone in it.
you're unable to stop for a moment and question your own positions and verify your information, preferring instead to fly off the handle and get pissed off.
it's cool buddy, this shit can't last forever... it's just a question of how bad things will get first *shrug*
>>673060931
>better quality of care for EVERYONE
yeah, id rather pay more to know that MY care will be what i want it to be, fuck if i care what kind of care you get faget
>>673056880
>claiming things but having 0 evidence to back it up
#republicuckthings
>>673041740
Serious question, do you have to pay a monthly / annual fee in America to have a bank account?
>>673056880
calling people out on their bs when they have no evidence of it is justifying what now?
you know hilariously enough, Germany's income tax on the middle class is LESS than the US income tax lmao you're ALL BEING FUCKING HAD.
For single filers (married are obv different rates for both):
- Up to 9k euros is 0% (US is up to $9k at 10%)
- 9k to 52k is 15% (US is 9k to 37k at 15%, then between 37k and 90k it is 25%
MARRIED:
Germany: First 15k at 0%, up to 105k Euros at 15%
USA: First 13k at 10%, up to 50k at 15%, then 25%
I mean jesus fucking christ.
THEY HAVE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, SUBSIDIZED HEALTHCARE, ARE THE STRONGEST ECONOMY IN EUROPE, AND PAY LESS FUCKING TAXES
what is your argument?!?!?!?! ooooh but handouts qq
>>673061431
Depends on the bank.
>>673061431
goddammit anon read the fuck up.
>>673061550
>tfw I don't have to pay income tax in my state.
What was that about me paying more in income tax than germans?
>>673061763
you don't pay federal income tax? you're either not in the USA, or working illegally.
>>673056361
>>673057500
If you're paying them for it then you clearly don't deserve it by virtue of existing. You deserve it by virtue of paying for it.
>>673062092
the most ass backwards cargo culting of money lol
Currency exists as a form of exchanging goods/services. Just because I use money to pay for healthcare has nothing to do with me deserving it or not.
I mean look dude just look at any other country with a single payer system. The medical professionals aren't 'enslaved,' people still want to be doctors, doctors still get paid well. The difference is there isn't an insurance exec getting paid $10m/year to figure out how to bone you harder when you end up needing medicine. There's no huge insurance lobby organizations spending hundreds of millions of dollars to influence legislation.
like really why is there a 3rd party between you and the doctor whose purpose it is to try and figure out how to screw either you or the doctor over to get more money? that was maybe sane 50-60 years ago when insurance was provided by your job but uh not anymore.
>>673062465
you're really missing the point.
>>673061550
It's the principle of morals and the fact that we are supposed to be responsible for ourselves in this country. It isn't about the fucking money, like most of you greedy assholes want it to be, whilst calling the corporations and government greedy. Ironic.
>>673062465
>medical professionals don't lobby the government in socialized medicine countries
>ongoing doctor's strike in UKGBNI
what a nice fantasy land you live in.
>>673062723
no I'm really not.
arguing that socialized medicine = slavery of medical professionals is not only dumb, it's incredibly insulting
>>673061550
you know euros and dollars aren't equivalent?
>>673062759
look I agree with you, but you're not going to reach everyone with that message. If people agreed on moral principals there wouldn't even be an argument; OF COURSE I want my fellow citizens (and fellow humans fuck it) taken care of so they aren't suffering. That's how crime and violence happens.
But you know, people are short sighted and narrowminded so you have to approach it with a 'look this helps you too,' argument.
>>673062833
I didn't argue that. The point is clearly over your head.
>>673062830
key words here were 'spending hundreds of millions of dollars to influence legislation.' Your doctor's strike is nothing compared to the power the pharma and insurance companies wield here, and the money they spend to keep it.
>>673063052
Crime and violence are not caused by suffering or poverty.
>>673059534
>crackpot
Again, those places aren't america. You are comparing apples to oranges. Tell me which of those countries has racial enrollment quotas? At Harvard it is easier for a black woman with a 3.5GPA than an Asian male with a 3.9. If there is no agenda pushed on them, why would an institution whose reputation relies on the accolades of their educated alumni give a shot about anything but intelligence? If there is no agenda why are American construction companies required to have a DBE quota. If you don't know what that means it's a Disenfranchised Business Enterprise, a set percentage of all subcontractors must be a female or minority owned business. Disenfranchised literally means female or minority, not any small business, a specific subset of small business. There is an agenda, I can live with that. If we are going to try and establish a European model on that foundation, you cannot compare the two. Europe started in a different place and is in a different place.
You're the kind of person who moves from tornado alley to California and insists on building a tornado proof home when every other home is earthquake proof. "But it worked over there"
Bottom line is America is a different place with a different foundation, you can not expect to build the European model without the same base. There are lots of things that work in some parts of the world that don't work in others. Communism thrived for a time in some parts of the world while it was collapsing cuba.
>>673063079
lol clearly
why don't you try explaining it a little more clearly because your attempt of 'you pay money therefore you don't inherently get it just for existing' is some nitpick dumbass bullshit. As if having money makes you worth more than someone without.
>>673063011
and? Germans tax you at 0% for your first 9k earned, the US taxes you at 10%. What's your point? That euros are worth more right now?
>>673063531
If I have a right to healthcare than morally I shouldn't have to pay for it. Paying for it through taxes means you're paying for it. It's really that simple.
>>673063531
Germany gets most of its revenue through VAT.
>>673063276
lol of course they are
you think it's just coincidence that the poorest areas are the most crime ridden?
or is it just that poors/minorities are inherently violent animals? lol
>>673063529
Europe also doesn't have a huge population of people that were enslaved and paid nothing while the wealth of the nation was built on their backs. Besides this isn't really relevant - you're getting into a very detailed argument when all we're talking about is the general idea of subsidized education.
>>673043267
Not to argue against you, but I want to know your opinion on which candidates would be better for the country. I support Bernie, but only just. Hilary is the literal devil. Trump is either a prop by Hilary or a media loved buffoon. Every other candidate doesn't stand a chance so they don't matter. As far as I can tell, Bernie is the one that will fuck us over the least. THAT is why I support him. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
>>673064182
>you think it's just coincidence that the poorest areas are the most crime ridden?
No. The "poor" in Western countries tend to people who are impulsive, irresponsible, and incapable of thinking long-term. These personality traits lead both to relative economic failure and to a propensity for criminal behaviour.
>>673064182
>European countries didn't have slaves in their colonies
>European countries weren't buying cheap American cotton right up to the day slavery ended in the USA and supporting the confederacy so they could keep doing so.
dank maymay bro
>>673063732
... but my point was that currency is necessary to the functioning of our economic system. You have a right to voting too, but you still have to help pay for the functioning of government with your taxes. That's how all this works.
You're trying to convolute the point by claiming some kind of 'if it is a right then I should have to pay 0 for it' thing as if we don't all collectively pay for all our 'rights' in this country. We pay for the military too, without which we'd quickly have no rights. You're trying to then say 'if it is a right and I don't have to pay anything, then doctors will get paid nothing.'
It's just... fuckin a weird line of logic my friend. Even the USSR had a currency.
>>673063821
eh true I forgot about that
>>673064392
lol you know how I know you're a college libtard?
>>673064697
bc you spout dumb fuck shit like 'poor people are just lazy and irresponsible and that's why they commit crime' despite record unemployment rates among the youth and a global recession that has been going on for the better part of a decade now.
Makes me think you've never really had to struggle in your life and you have 0 idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>>673064592
>... but my point was that currency is necessary to the functioning of our economic system. You have a right to voting too, but you still have to help pay for the functioning of government with your taxes. That's how all this works.
>You're trying to convolute the point by claiming some kind of 'if it is a right then I should have to pay 0 for it' thing as if we don't all collectively pay for all our 'rights' in this country. We pay for the military too, without which we'd quickly have no rights. You're trying to then say 'if it is a right and I don't have to pay anything, then doctors will get paid nothing.'
>It's just... fuckin a weird line of logic my friend. Even the USSR had a currency.
You've just made the Burkean conservative argument for why abstract rights don't really exist. I was starting to lazily make it myself but you did a fine job yourself.
>>673064884
your ad hominem and incoherence has failed to persuade me of anything. Congrats
>>673065021
well, they don't. I say that as a socialist. Might as well be realistic about it and say the only rights we have in this world are those we secure for ourselves.
For example, by demanding better healthcare policies in our nation.
>>673065244
Cool so the Singapore model then?
>>673041740
I live in scotland. All ATMs are free to use here. Paying to take my own money out the bank is the most retarded thing I've heard today.
GG 'murica.
>>673065177
there's nothing to persuade, it's just some shit you'll have to figure out on your own one day when you're out in the real world. you're too closed minded right now for 4chan arguments to do anything.
I mean you're saying the poor are just lazy and irresponsible. It's just......... lol my man. lol. The poor probably work the hardest out of anyone with their 2 40 hr a week jobs that pay like shit so they still barely scrape by.
>>673065409
you're paying for it in other ways. ATMs don't just magically operate for nothing.
>>673065409
usa
land of the fee
>>673065386
nah I still like democracy and voting - I just think our economics need a bit of an overhaul. Capitalism has its place and it has many useful tools for determining value of goods/services and the best way to distribute them; I just think it fails us in larger scale efforts (like in disasters like Hurricane Katrina) and also I think it isn't good to have vital things like food/health/telecomms be run by profit seeking companies that don't ultimately care for anything but shareholder sentiment.
>>673065409
not only do you pay the ATM operator a fee, often times your bank will charge a fee on top of that too for using an out of network ATM. it's so great.
>>673065657
so in the US you pay a monthly fee for your account unless you have a certain amount going in each month... then they charge you to use other machines on top of that?
>>673065456
>The poor probably work the hardest out of anyone with their 2 40 hr a week jobs that pay like shit so they still barely scrape by.
what a nice fantasy land you live in.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/why-the-poor-dont-work-according-to-the-poor/279900/
>>673065863
Singapore is a democracy.
>>673065863
like people think capitalism is some kind of answer to everything like 'oh just privatize it!' but it has its failings, too, many of them moral/ethical.
This bernie bro posted his number on fb. Punish him for his insolence?
>>673041740
Borders on word-salad. Take your meds. No, you're not a genius. It's the mania again.
>>673041740
Buttblasted upbercapitalist detected
>>673044566
Ok. We are in the woods. I am stronger/ have a gun/ whatever. You not. Your right for free speech? Fuck you. You don't want to be searched? Fuck you. You want to pray? Fuck you.
If you think #1 #3 and #5 would still be "human rights" if there is noone watching over us you are fucking stupid.
These things exists so we can live together without having to kill each other to make a point
>>673066008
>bringing morals/ethics into business and finances
This is why your poor faget.
>>673061129
haha come on buddy, your ego is so big that you are almost literraly saying that you rather get fucked by your insurance than participate in a system that will not only benefit yourself, but also other people.
>>673066515
how's the view from your cell there, Gordon? surprised the warden lets you near a computer
>>673051118
>Poeple first have to take damage or die before things get made safer
>>673042728
Seems to me like automobile related deaths are at an all time low.
January 1, 1968 heres the spike he was talking about
>>673061129
you already do pay more haha
enjoy your overpriced mediocre healthcare amerifat. even wonky toothed britain is better than you guys
>>673067288
American healthcare is the finest in the world.
>>673062092
The Doctors deserve to get paid and the patients deserve to get health care. Just because your daddy beat you doesn't mean you have to take it out on people that need health care.
>>673066515
>http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/why-the-poor-dont-work-according-to-the-poor/279900/
So what's your fucking point? Did you read your own article?
"If you do choose to take the Census figures at face value, though, I think there are a couple of lessons. First, the recession changed poverty to some extent. More of the non-working poor claim they cannot find a job than at any point in the past two decades. Given that there are three unemployed Americans for every job opening, that shouldn't be much of a surprise. Second, the poor who choose not to work aren't necessarily doing so out of laziness, but because they have other obligations: they're trying to take care of relatives, they're ill, or they're attempting to make their way through school."
So, ASSUMING you take the numbers at face value and there's nothing else going on, the poor don't work because they are either taking care of relatives, are ill, or are trying to get through school.
???????????????????????????
>>673066515
Actually, I'm not. Which is what makes it sadder for all you broke asses arguing against things that would benefit you.
>>673067671
oops meant to quote
>>673065892
for that first one
>>673067385
according to who? The propaganda makers who say every other healthcare system is worse just so you don't ask yourself questions about the general shitty circumstances regarding hospitals? They say the same shit in North Korea and they also believe themselves to be the best country in the world.
>>673064182
And there it is
First I'm told there is no agenda, I provide proof of the agenda, then i'm told that there is an agenda but with reason.
1)Europe had a huge hand in slavery
2)Europe had plenty of instances of slavery, albeit white on white slavery
3)the Irish seem to be doing fine despite slavery
Just to save us the back and forth i'll help you out.
>but they were white, much easier to hide in society
Then the Japanese and Chinese are doing just fine despite American slavery
4)Yes, racism is alive in america. It is terrible. BUT, it is a 2 way street, blacks and whites are equally racist towards each other and there is far more black on white crime. Furthermore only one race in America has a self destructive culture. I'll give you a hint, they aren't white, asian, jewish, south american, middle eastern, native american or slavic.
>>673067385
American health care rated below Canada arguable the worst single payer 1st world country in the world
>>673066746
That is exactly what I'm saying thank you for reading along.
Why in the fuck would I pay less so that me and my family can have worse care so that the nigger family across town can have better care?
